Nicole [00:00:00]: The AI responses are so annoying to me.

John [00:00:04]: You're talking about, like when someone, when you try to talk to someone about something important and then they give you a canned AI response.

Nicole [00:00:10]: Even like the therapy speak, they're very similar. You're trying to have a conversation with someone and they send you like a AI thing. It's like, well, like you can tell it's AI or if it's just straight up, like, this is not a safe place for me to have a conversation. What I'm trying to say with all of this is essentially like through these AI and the weaponized Thera speak, we've disconnected ourselves from each other.

John [00:00:40]: Is it okay if my partner uses ChatGPT? Decide whether or not to leave me

Nicole [00:00:46]: and to create messages, your relationship as

John [00:00:49]: your therapist, as your, like communication, send, send emails, evaluate like the fights in your relationship and tell you, you know, if you should leave someone. Is it, is it a red flag if someone does that?

Nicole [00:01:04]: Well, I think the intention is good. However, I think the outcome is not beneficial. Even if you think it might be beneficial. Because even if you try to unbiasedly put in the situation to chat GPT. Yeah, it's your chat GPT and it's going to be biased in some ways.

John [00:01:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:28]: Or it's going to be like, you should say this and then you just try to verbatim say that. Or you send a message. Like a. The AI helps you create a message to send and then it's not really you and it's not really you learning how to do it.

John [00:01:41]: Yes.

Nicole [00:01:42]: Kind of like it's like when you're a child and a parent does your science project for you instead of you doing this. Because your child doesn't really learn if you do the project for them. The same thing is like, you don't really learn if AI is trying to solve your problems for you.

John [00:01:57]: Especially if you don't read the letter. If you're like, oh yeah, just tell them why they're wrong and then send it.

Nicole [00:02:02]: Right. Well, and then what do you think you're going to do next time? Actually try to figure it out yourself or just have AI fix it again or send another message?

John [00:02:11]: Well, the problem is also, like, it's a third party in the relationship. Like, you shouldn't be like, should I break up with my boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever, or my partner because. And then explain your situation AI and then have AI.

Nicole [00:02:26]: I feel like if you're already asking that question, you already know the answer to that question.

John [00:02:30]: Or, or you're just, well, maybe you're not even putting that. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you could be putting that question in there, but maybe what you're doing is you're just putting in facts, like, what you think are facts about what happened.

Nicole [00:02:41]: Right.

John [00:02:41]: And then it's like, now it's building up this case against this person that, like, oh, here's what happened today. You know, he left his underwear on the floor again today. This is the fifth time I've told him. And then it's like, oh, yeah, that's definitely. That's definitely grounds for divorce right there. So. Or it just starts to build up the case, Right. It's starting to get all this information, and then you're like, well, what do you think about my relationship? And then it's like, you've only told it all these bad things that have happened. And then it gives you an assessment of the relationship and says, oh, yeah, it seems like you're in an abusive relationship. You should call the abuse hotline. And it's like, okay, that's. I don't know if that's accurate, but then you're believing it because you know what? And maybe it's not as extreme as abuse hotline, but what I'm saying is that it starts to give you information based on what you've given it over time.

Nicole [00:03:30]: Right.

John [00:03:31]: Which might not be the. It's not. It's definitely not the full story.

Nicole [00:03:34]: No, I understand what you're saying, because that's also what I think is another real issue with using ChatGPT or AI in your relationship is that it could potentially say, like, you're in a bad situation when really you're just in a human situation.

John [00:03:55]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:03:56]: It's the same kind of thing with, like, the therapy speak and, you know, weaponized therapy speak and things like that, where it's like, oh, you're a narcissist. Like, your AI could be like, oh, those are narcissistic tendencies.

John [00:04:10]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:04:11]: But in reality, we all have narcissistic tendencies.

John [00:04:14]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:15]: And the thing is, like. Like you said, are you accurately, like, portraying this, or are you using your own wounds to kind of color what actually happened? And are you blowing it out of proportion or dramatizing it? And then, like, it's not accurate. Like, I think that even with the weaponized therapies, we've all kind of turned to, oh, you're gaslighting me. Oh, you're doing this. Like, we've labeled all these things, like, very critically.

John [00:04:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:50]: To almost have an excuse to be like, oh, no, you're abusing me or whatever. And I'm not saying that if you're actually being abused, then that's not a problem. That is a problem.

John [00:05:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:03]: But we can't handle the discomfort of human interaction anymore without labeling it as something more extreme. And sometimes it is extreme. I'm not trying to invalidate that. But at the same time, we have to realize that normal human relationships have been into under this microscope that none of us.

John [00:05:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:30]: Would survive. Like, all of us do things to hurt people. People. Not intentionally. Sometimes intentionally.

John [00:05:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:38]: And if we go by those moments and we can't ever make a mistake, then none of us are worthy of relationships or love or whatever.

John [00:05:47]: I also see it as kind of the same thing. And we did episode about like talking to your friends about your relationship and you. Like, it's the same thing. Like, it's a violation of trust if you go to your friends and you're like, hey, you know, should I divorce my husband? Or whatever? Like, because he does all these things that's like, you're supposed to deal with that with the person and your friends are going to give you bad advice. Right. Like you don't. Like, it's. No one would want to. Okay. If you're talking about if, if, If I knew you were talking to your friends about me and they were helping you decide whether or not to like, end the relationship, I would be pretty pissed off. I'd be like, okay, that's that. I feel like that's a big violation of trust. Like, not cool that you're having these conversations and these people are encouraging you or whatever. You know, that would be the end of like, they can no longer be in our lives type of situation. Right. And so if you're doing that with AI, you're doing the same thing. That's true. Except that it's not even a person. Like, but, but it. To me, it's the same exact violation of. Of that trust and boundary is that now you're sharing all this information with an AI intelligence and it's now allying against me potentially. Right. Like whoever the other person is. You know what I'm saying? Like that's. It's still a betrayal.

Nicole [00:07:04]: Yeah. Well. And you know, going off of what you're saying, if you're at a point where you're talking to anybody, including AI, about not wanting to be with your partner or whatever, it's way past time for you to actually have a conversation with your partner.

John [00:07:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:24]: Because those things will never be fixed or resolved or whatever your goal is without Talking directly to the person. But the reality is, though, if you're also at a point where you're like, should I break up or should I get a divorce? What do you have to lose with talking directly, directly to your partner? Like, that's the only way it's actually going to get fixed. Or you're actually going to follow through with not being together anymore.

John [00:07:51]: Right. And then you have like, cases where things, they're just like, using it to get a response. Like, okay, well, AI said that you're actually wrong about like the way that what you, what you spoke to me was narcissistic or was not the correct thing is like, you put a unrealistic demand on me. That's what AI said. I gave it our conversation and here's what it. It said that you were the one that was wrong. Like, that's.

Nicole [00:08:15]: Well, I was gonna say too, that the reason too, that people use AI and especially will like, take something that AI is written for them and send it to somebody is to one to try to make themselves so untouchable. Or like you said and, or to prove that they're right and you're wrong or you did something bad and they did nothing bad. Because the thing is, like, it can do all of those things. It can word itself in a way where you sound like a therapist. So you can't do anything wrong. Like, you're not, you're not yelling at them, you're not calling them names. You're not doing all these things. So you're not acting in a way that's wrong.

John [00:08:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:00]: And then also you're using it to make your case of why you're right and they're wrong or you're the victim and they're the perpetrator.

John [00:09:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:11]: And that's what I feel like, is the real reason that people use AI responses is to try to absolve themselves of any responsibility. But the reality, again, is that we're humans and you won't ever get the relationship that by trying to be absolutely perfect, make no mistakes, do nothing wrong.

John [00:09:35]: And you're gonna, you're gonna, like, people are gonna get upset. Like, you're gonna hurt someone. You're gonna upset someone when they're like, that's not you, that's your AI. Like your AI. Now you have an ally against me. Now it's two against one. Right? Right. Even I even say, like, even outside of that, you should never fact check someone with AI. Like, it's just rude to do, like, it's insulting and pisses people Off. Even if you know they're right.

Nicole [00:09:58]: It's just how to make friends in it.

John [00:10:00]: Yeah, exactly like, exactly. You're exactly right. Like from that story in there. But, but, but just don't like, even if you know the fact you don't like, look up. Oh, let's, let's, let's. Oh, yeah, let's ask AI and see what it says. And then you're like, oh, see, it says that you're wrong. It's like that's just rude and insulting and people are not going to like that. You know, I mean, but especially if you're doing in a relationship, essentially you're like, oh, yeah, I gave it our. What you said and you're wrong. Like, that's not the correct way to handle this situation.

Nicole [00:10:27]: Someone's not going to get defensive from that.

John [00:10:29]: Yeah, Because I mean, it is bullying. It's like it's, it's gang.

Nicole [00:10:33]: Gang.

John [00:10:33]: Yeah, right. Because you're now it's two against one. Like you're using this against them, including, like you can express your feelings about a thing or what you think, but when you're doing something like that, then it's ganging up on someone. It's not cool. It's going to cause more damage in the relationship.

Nicole [00:10:52]: Yeah. For sure.

John [00:10:53]: You shouldn't use AI as a therapist either. That's not the appropriate. I use AI for everything, but not for interpersonal relationship stuff because it's not a good way to learn things in terms of relationship. Life is meant to be experienced. Your emotional maturity comes from going through life, experiencing things.

Nicole [00:11:16]: Yeah. And having the hard conversations and repairing and learning to communicate better and all of those things. Yeah. That's like AI, I'm sure, can pull up some therapist information from the Internet.

John [00:11:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:34]: But what good is therapist information without another human being there to help you? And honestly, I'm not saying that therapists aren't helpful, but therapists have their own problems.

John [00:11:49]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:49]: Because we're all human. And I don't think that that's a bad thing. I think that when we expect a human being to be like AI to not have any problems, to not make mistakes, to always be perfect, that causes more mistakes.

John [00:12:05]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:12:06]: And so if you're having problems in your relationship and you're going to AI and you're using it to try to figure out things, or, you know, it's going to point out that this person has flaws because you're complaining about them. But I mean, you have flaws as well too.

John [00:12:22]: Right. And they may point out your Mistakes. But that's, it doesn't matter like that, that's still, it's still beside the point, right? Because you might be like, oh, well, what it's telling me the things that I'm doing wrong as well. But.

Nicole [00:12:33]: Yeah, but, but people don't really pay attention to the things that they're doing wrong, especially when they're hurt, right? They don't pay as much attention to what they're doing wrong as what someone else is doing wrong.

John [00:12:44]: And then they explain the situation. You know, you tell it what happened. It doesn't tell you what you want to hear. So then you just turned it off. Well, no, like a bad therapist, you explain it more. You're like, oh, no, no, but this is. And then until you get the answer you want, right? And that's what people do with therapists. That's what they do with, with AI. And so that's, it's, it's not a good, it's not a good plan. You should just not talk to your AI about your relationship at all. Like, if, if you're, if you're trying to figure out something about yourself, I think you could find some personal development knowledge from AI. Like, that would be useful.

Nicole [00:13:17]: But you have to be the right type of person to get help from AI. And like you said, it still shouldn't be like the place that you go looking for help, right? First personal development or. Well, it could be help on a. But like, but the reality is that most people don't actually want to grow, right? They don't actually have a growth mindset. They have a fixed mindset or they have a victim mindset. And so things like I just perpetuate fixed mindset and victim mindset and doesn't promote growth mindset unless you already have one.

John [00:13:53]: Right? Well, and let me give you an example, right? So like, okay, you could ask, like, you could use it to help you in your relationship, right? By saying to AI, something like, I tend to be defensive. Can you help me figure out some ways I can be less defensive? That's a great question to ask. That's fine. No, if your partner saw your chat GPT transcript and that's what you asked, they're not going to be upset, they're going to be happy. They're like, good, right? You got to think about, like, if they saw your transcript, would they be upset? Would that be a betrayal? Right? Doing something like that, asking about, like, even if you're like, I feel insecure sometimes, what are some ways that I could help myself from not Being insecure or I tend to fight with my partner a lot about this subject. What are ways I can, like, improve or communicate my thoughts a little bit more clearly? I think that's, that's where you're starting to get to the borderline of it. I think that's, that's fine as long as you're not talking about what they did.

Nicole [00:14:48]: Right.

John [00:14:48]: You know what I mean? And as long as you're not, like, using it as a therapist where it's like you're trying to tell it all your problems and try to give it, try to have it give you solutions to all your problems or your emotional, your emotional issues. Right. Like dropping your emotions on, on AI and then like, whatever, whatever response it's going to give you is going to be something that is, like, it's going to be catering towards you. You have to identify the problems that you have. Right. And then, and then ask for help on those things. Yeah, that is, that, that is a good piece of it. Like, that's where I think if you

Nicole [00:15:21]: want to dump all your feelings, you're better off dumping it into a journal because journaling is honestly a lot better. Helps you process the actual emotions rather than avoid them or try to pin them on someone else, which is what a lot of people, like you said, try to do with their AI. But no, I agree with you that it's not like it can't be helpful. But I do still think that you have to be a person who actually wants to work on things. And I want to say too, that if you do feel like you're in an actually abusive situation, yeah, you can ask AI, but you already know.

John [00:15:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:56]: If you are in an abusive relationship or not. And if, like, if you're at the point of, like, should I get a divorce? Should I, you know, break up with this person. If you genuinely, like, think that something abusive or really serious is going on, yeah, you already know the answer.

John [00:16:14]: You don't have to ask AI and you shouldn't ask. I would even say you shouldn't ask because the thing is, like, if you ask AI now, like, again, if your partner saw your chat transcript and you're like, am I in abusive relationship? And you're not. Now you're going to be done with the relationship because, because most people are like, okay, you're, you're asking like, you're, you're acting like I'm an abuser to AI and it's telling you these things. Like, that's, that's going to be like an end your relationship. Like anything that you would, that you would ask AI or type or talk to someone about that if your partner heard it would end the relationship you should not do.

Nicole [00:16:49]: Yeah.

John [00:16:50]: Because that's the same thing as lying or keeping a secret. Like it's going to come. What if it comes out? Everything that you type into a computer could come out. Everything you talk to a friend about could come out. Right. So it's like, I think that's, that's the thing about it. But I can imagine that's why I said like for the abuse case. Like, imagine that you, you know, you type into chat GPT and you're like, am I being, is my partner abusing me? And it's, and you're saying something nasty about what they, what they did or said. Unless it's like, if it's, if you already know the answer, then you don't even need to ask it, just like you said. But if you don't know the answer and you ask it, then that's, that's a pretty bad, like you're making a pretty big accuse. It's making an accusation is what it is.

Nicole [00:17:27]: Yeah.

John [00:17:27]: Well.

Nicole [00:17:27]: And I, I think that also too, if you're afraid you're being abused, you're probably going to describe it.

John [00:17:33]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:17:34]: More abusive anyway.

John [00:17:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:36]: And.

John [00:17:36]: Cause that's a strong word to use. Right.

Nicole [00:17:38]: But I do think people also throw it around a little too much as well too. I'm not saying in actual instances, but again, it goes back to like the weaponized therapy speak. I think that people, if you say something to somebody and they don't like it or it makes them uncomfortable, they can say you're being emotionally abusive or all those things. Like there is a line to these things and the line has been pushed further. And it's not making our relationships better, it's making them worse. It's making people more avoidant and like more in the victim mindset, more likely to walk away.

John [00:18:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:18]: From situations that could have been resolved with just an actual conversation or working on your conversation skills.

John [00:18:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:26]: Like you said, like ask AI how to not be defensive or ask AI how to respond when you feel triggered or hurt or exactly what those are. To bring that up to your partner. Like those things are beneficial because it's focusing, like you said, on yourself and what you can do rather than being like, oh, my partner, you know, hurt my feelings by saying he, you know, doesn't like a shirt on me.

John [00:18:54]: And even if you explain it perfectly well, it's still going to be skewed. Because here's a good example. Like I've got my thing that records all my conversations, right? I've never taken this and then taken a conversation we've had and put it into AI. Like if we had an argument or something and said, analyze this and tell me who's right or wrong. Because I already know that it doesn't have. Even with a verbatim transcript of exactly what was said, it doesn't have enough context. It doesn't know how many times this person has done this thing in the past. It doesn't know what the context of the situation is, like why you said a thing or why they said a thing. You know what I mean? Like, it might be like, oh, wow, they're being really, really mean to you or rude to you. It's like, well, what if this is something that I lied about and now they're confronting me about it? That changes the context of the situation. It's not just the words, right? And so that's, that's the whole thing is like you can't have the whole history of a human being and that and your relation, your relationship history, right? Like it doesn't have all of that, that knowledge. And that's, that's the reason why I would never do it. I have the ability to do it. I have literally everything I ever say put in there. But I'm never going to put it into AI to like try and analyze that because I already know, like, whatever I get out is I'm not going to be able to trust it. But it's going to be, it's going to be alluring to like, whatever gives me. I'm like, oh, like I could get sucked into it.

Nicole [00:20:17]: Right? You could put everything we ever say and.

John [00:20:20]: Exactly. And then I would like, oh, goes. Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:23]: Especially if you start using AI to construct things that you're sending to people, including like in the pre dating, like, I would hate to be dating right now because you don't really know if the text that that person sent you. I mean, you'll know if it's bad that it's not AI. Well, it's like, like, what if it's good? What if some guy wrote in his AI, like, hey, construct this for this girl.

John [00:20:49]: What is.

Nicole [00:20:49]: You know, make it so that she wants to go on another date with me again.

John [00:20:53]: Like, I'm actually going to use AI though, because I'm going to look up what that play was. Because it's good. Because it's exactly that though. Okay, so there's a play that we Saw in San Diego. I can't remember the name of it, but it's this guy that was writing these love letters for this other guy because he liked this girl. And then they went to war or something, and then the first guy died. And the second guy who was writing the letters.

Nicole [00:21:21]: I think it's survived by AI.

John [00:21:23]: Slow. That's mean. Is it? Is it there?

Nicole [00:21:26]: It is slow.

John [00:21:27]: Do you have it? This is a pretty easy one. I feel like we're getting stonewalled. Yeah. But I think you're right.

Nicole [00:21:33]: It is not you saying stonewalled.

John [00:21:35]: I'm using therapy speaking.

Nicole [00:21:37]: I know. Why don't do that.

John [00:21:40]: Stop stonewalling me. Cyano play. 1897. Classic French play. But this dude has a big nose, right? And he. Yeah, and then he's, like, embarrassed about it. He likes this girl. Yeah, he likes this girl that he's been friends with. He's been friend zoned for a long time. And then he. She likes this guy that's in his army, in his troop, like, under his command, and she's smitten with this guy. And then he talks to her, and she thinks that he's going to profess his love for her, but then she tells him about how much that she likes this guy, and she wants his help to get this guy to fall in love with her or whatever. And so he ends up helping her because he likes her so much that he starts writing letters or telling this guy what to say to her. Basically writing letters for him. Love letters.

Nicole [00:22:40]: Because he's. The other guy is, like, attractive but not smart.

John [00:22:44]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:22:45]: Doesn't speak very well.

John [00:22:47]: But the way that it ends. Spoiler alert for an 1897 French play. But is that who she loves that she thinks has written all the letters? Dies, and she mourns him, and then this guy ends up at the end a broken man. And he. And he regrets having done that, basically, because at that point, when the guy is about to die, he can't tell her that it's actually him. And he never knows if she actually would have liked him or not. But the whole point is that those letters were not. She got upset at the end when she found it out, obviously. And she was gonna get upset. That's why he wouldn't tell her was because it's not authentic.

Nicole [00:23:33]: Right.

John [00:23:34]: Like that guy, he pretended to be someone else. Exactly. And he had to keep the guys up. So when they're in war and everything, he has to keep on writing her letters as this other guy, because he has to like the guy Can't. Oh, there's a part in the play where the guy tries to talk to her, Right. And he can't talk to her because.

Nicole [00:23:54]: And she's like, but you write me these wonderful letters.

John [00:23:58]: And so he has to, like, the guy has to come up and whisper in his ear what to say in order to. And so that's. So the whole point of this, off on that tangent is that if you use AI to write things for you or to like, ex to woo someone, Right. Then you better have it all the time because it's not really you. Like they're falling in love with someone who's not you.

Nicole [00:24:20]: Well, don't do it because even if you have charisma and you're good with women or whatever, yeah. The AI could sound different than how you actually are. But most people using it AI to appear a certain way don't have the charisma.

John [00:24:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:37]: And then what are you going to do when you meet the person in person?

John [00:24:41]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:42]: And it's completely different.

John [00:24:43]: Like, and you can't talk to them.

Nicole [00:24:45]: It is a form of lying. Like you said, it's inauthentic. It's like portraying yourself. It's like catfishing, but now with words. It's like people used to catfish with pictures. Maybe they still do, but I feel like it happens a little bit less. I mean, the editing the pictures, now the AI pictures, it was the Photoshop, but it happened with pictures, but now it could happen with words. Whereas, like, before you didn't have that. So now if you're using AI to like, woo said or even like have a conversation with your partner.

John [00:25:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:18]: That's not authentic.

John [00:25:20]: Right, Exactly. Yeah. And it's gonna, it's gonna mess up the relationship because they're not actually falling in love with you. They're not actually communicating with you. Right, right. It's fine to use it to like send emails to your landlord or to whatever and like, you know, to argue some leg, you know, to. To make sure you don't say the wrong thing to like in a business dealing or something like that, that's fine. Who cares? Right. But when it's a personal relationship type of thing, it matters of the heart. It should, it should come from the heart.

Nicole [00:25:50]: Sure.

John [00:25:51]: So, yeah.

Nicole [00:25:52]: So the. Don't even use to construct your conversations unless, like you said, it's something like mundane and simple.

John [00:26:02]: Yeah. But more and more people are going to be doing this. More and more people, as they're like, you know, as they have more access to artificial intelligence, is. They're Going to be using it as a therapist. They're going to be using it to put their fights into the relationships, or I mean, put their fights into the AI and their relationship fights into it and try to get advice and try to figure out if they should break up with someone or if someone's a narcissist or someone. Like all of these things, which is going to be, you know, disaster. It's going to make things worse.

Nicole [00:26:32]: Because it's the easy way.

John [00:26:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:34]: But you don't learn anything and you don't have a deep connection when you do the things the easy way.

John [00:26:39]: Yeah. The big thing is, is really the big lesson is that you need to discuss the things with your partner.

Nicole [00:26:46]: Right.

John [00:26:46]: Like, that's what the communication.

Nicole [00:26:48]: Right.

John [00:26:48]: Not your friend, imperfect.

Nicole [00:26:50]: It doesn't have to be perfect.

John [00:26:51]: Right? Right.

Nicole [00:26:52]: It actually should not be perfect.

John [00:26:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:54]: Because that's how you learn. That's how you grow.

John [00:26:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:59]: So I think, like, as a society, especially with AI, unfortunately, it promotes perfectionism. That's, again, why people are gravitating towards it. Like, they're like, oh, if I put it in here and I send this,

John [00:27:13]: then I'll never say something wrong.

Nicole [00:27:14]: Yeah. And there's nothing that anybody can, like, pin on me. Or, you know, like, if a guy's using it to woo a girl, like, oh, I can come across as the perfect guy. I won't say something stupid. I won't do the wrong thing. Or, you know, like, it'll be, I don't have to worry about anything. I can just send it to her. Like, that actually keeps you from having a genuine, deep, connected relationship.

John [00:27:40]: Right. It's like a woman that always wears heavy makeup and then has to wake up in the morning before the guy wakes up and put on the makeup so he never sees her without the makeup on. Like, if you want to play that game, you're going to play that game forever.

Nicole [00:27:53]: But that's also not even realistic.

John [00:27:55]: It's not realistic. That's what I'm saying is you can't play that game forever.

Nicole [00:27:57]: Right. Exactly.

John [00:27:58]: You're eventually going to take a crap and stink up the toilet. It's going to happen. You can't just go to the drive to Starbucks every time you have to take a shit. It's not going to happen. You know what I'm saying? You can't keep up a fake image forever. And then even if you could, then they're like, do they actually love me for me? Or is it for this fake image that I figured out how to portray and that's the problem. Even if you're dealing with your relationship problems, even if you're successfully dealing with the relationship problems by asking AI and it's giving you good advice and then you're using that, and then it's like, well, then, shit, if you go somewhere where your Internet. We don't have Internet, then all of a sudden, what's going to happen? You're going to be like, oh, shit, let's talk about this later. Yeah, let's talk about it on the drive home. It's a bad idea.

Nicole [00:28:43]: And don't do it because it will spiral and you will want to keep doing it.

John [00:28:47]: Yeah. Unless you. Unless you want to just have the AI girlfriend. If you have the AI girlfriend, then you can just talk to the AI girlfriend all day instead of like, if you have a real girlfriend, then you need to have a real conversation.

Nicole [00:28:59]: AI girlfriend. Just like the episode that we did. That's not gonna. Or boyfriend is not gonna help you either.

John [00:29:04]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:29:05]: It's an enabling thing.

John [00:29:07]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:29:08]: Because even if you don't want to use it to enable yourself, you're still probably using it to enable yourself.

John [00:29:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:17]: Because all we want is validation. Right. At any cost. A lot of the time. So what easier way to get validation than using AI? And then you crave that. And then your human partner doesn't treat you as good as your AI.

John [00:29:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:36]: Because your AI is perfect. It says whatever you want it to say and it doesn't yell at you or it doesn't leave the toilet seat up or whatever. Like, that's why these things become so attractive. But that's not the human experience.

John [00:29:50]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:29:50]: And I think, like, in society today, we've lost the concept of doing and overcoming them.

John [00:30:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:03]: And being proud of ourselves.

John [00:30:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:05]: Like, life is hard in other ways and it keeps getting harder in some ways. So we haven't really overcome those things. But like, even with children, we've taken away, like with the participation trophies and all of those things. Like, we've taken away the challenge. We've taken away when someone does something hard and they overcome it and they feel good about themselves.

John [00:30:28]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:30]: And if we do that in relationships, then our relationships will become hollow and meaningless. Basically.

John [00:30:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:37]: And then everybody will go towards AI but that's. That's not going to fill the void.

John [00:30:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:43]: That we have inside of us as humans.

John [00:30:47]: Otherwise you just become the man in the middle. Right. Like if you're. If you're talking to AI about your relationship, about your girlfriend, and then you're Using that to, like, make your relationship better, then she should just talk to the AI directly and just have the relationship with the AI instead of, you're not necessary. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're just relaying the messages that you're getting from AI to. It might as well just go direct. So, yeah, that's the thing is there's no need for you in that situation. So. But. But yeah, I just think it's. It's generally a bad idea to. To consult AI about that. And I. And I'm someone who uses AI for everything.

Nicole [00:31:26]: Yeah.

John [00:31:27]: But not for these things.

Nicole [00:31:28]: I think it's a protection mechanism. It's a new protection mechanism for people.

John [00:31:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:33]: Like I said, it's a way to be like, you can't pin anything on me.

John [00:31:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:37]: Because my AI made it and they don't make mistakes.

John [00:31:40]: And people have been doing this the same way. Like it's nothing new. Right. It's the same thing that people have been doing with the therapist and with their friends. So the therapist tells them what to say, and then they carefully say what the therapist told them to say and then responds.

Nicole [00:31:54]: And then they're like, I need to talk to my therapist again.

John [00:31:57]: Exactly. And then they're like. They just pair it with the therapist. Oh, I told the therapist about this, and the therapist said this and said that you're actually being abusive in a narcissist, and so I should actually leave you. That's what the therapist said. Like, okay. Or they talk to their friends and they get the same thing. It's the same thing. You're just using AI to do the same thing. That would. That. That's wrong to do anyway. So it's not. It's not even new. That's the thing about it. It's not even new.

Nicole [00:32:21]: That's true.

John [00:32:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:32:23]: And I think people need to realize that, like, therapists have flaws just like we do.

John [00:32:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:32:31]: AI is not a human. But it also has flaws. It also is not always. Right.

John [00:32:36]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not definitely. Not when it comes to relationship stuff.

Nicole [00:32:40]: No.

John [00:32:41]: It has no computer. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:32:43]: It doesn't. Like you said earlier, it doesn't understand the nuance of being a human.

John [00:32:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:32:47]: It doesn't understand the backstory. It doesn't under any. Even your friends don't understand the backstory. Your therapist doesn't really understand the full backstory. Like, even if you've been with a therapist for years and you've told her,

John [00:32:59]: basically, they still are not there.

Nicole [00:33:00]: Right.

John [00:33:01]: Not sitting there actually watching the conversation all the time.

Nicole [00:33:04]: Right, exactly. And I think just with social media and all these things, like, we just feel like we know people without knowing people, and then it's this curated image a lot of the time. And then. So, like, real human interaction, real raw, genuine, like, relationships.

John [00:33:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:30]: Feel. But we're just so used to seeing curated versions of life.

John [00:33:35]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:33:36]: That we have forgotten that life as a human is flawed.

John [00:33:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:41]: That's part of why we're here. Like, that's part of who we are.

John [00:33:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:46]: That doesn't mean we can't work to be better, but that's part of the process. And if you take the easy way, or you put a band aid over it with, like, the AI or you, like, have AI do all your conversations or whatever.

John [00:33:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:00]: Then you're not even really living your life.

John [00:34:02]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:04]: So, yeah, don't do the. The AI responses are.

John [00:34:12]: So you're talking about, like, when someone. When you try to talk to someone about something important and, like, you. You, like, say your grievances or whatever, and then they give you a candy response.

Nicole [00:34:22]: Or even it's. Or even, like, the therapy speak. They're very similar. Yeah, yeah, they're very similar at this point. Like, the. You're trying to have a conversation with someone and they send you, like, a thing. It's like. Well, like, you can tell it's AI because it's, you know, a little bit more dry than how they would normally talk. Or they use words that, like, the person wouldn't normally use. Or if it's just straight up, like, this is not a safe place for me to have a conversation. Like what? What do you mean? Like, yeah, and like, in some instances, if someone's yelling at you and berating you or whatever, I can understand that. But if someone's just trying to have a tough conversation, you're like, this is not a safe space.

John [00:35:04]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:35:05]: Being uncomfortable doesn't mean you're not safe.

John [00:35:07]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:07]: And so it's along the same lines, like. And what I'm trying to say with all of this is essentially, like, through these AI and the weaponized therapy stuff speak.

John [00:35:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:20]: We've disconnected ourselves from each other. Not gotten closer, not gotten better.

John [00:35:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:26]: We've gotten more judgmental, more like pointing the finger, more like you're with me or against me instead of, like, actually working through our problems.

John [00:35:37]: Yeah. Yeah. I've even just started, even just with my regular emails, just having the AI put at the bottom that this is John's AI that wrote this to help Smart. Because it's Fine then. It's fine then. I think if you get an email like that, I mean, it shouldn't be about a personal thing, like a relationship thing. Like, I would never send you an email that's like, you know, your AI

Nicole [00:35:59]: has texted me sometimes like, hey, this is.

John [00:36:01]: Yeah, the text is different.

Nicole [00:36:02]: Yeah, John. But.

John [00:36:05]: But then like, if someone gets something like that, they're like, okay, it's good because they under. Because it's not deceptive. It's not like trying to pretend like, okay, this, this AI sent this on behal John.

Nicole [00:36:17]: Which your AI also does when it texts me normally tells me that it's your AI.

John [00:36:21]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:36:22]: I get that. Like the future is heading in crazy directions and nobody knows what's going to happen, but don't. Don't. And your human connection.

John [00:36:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:37]: By using AI.

John [00:36:38]: And I think the biggest rule I could just say is this, like, don't do anything or say anything. Don't do anything or say anything. That if your partner was present, they wouldn't like, that would feel like a betrayal to them.

Nicole [00:36:55]: Yeah. That you wouldn't say to their face.

John [00:36:57]: Exactly. If they were invisible.

Nicole [00:36:58]: That's what they've been saying. Don't say anything about what they say to their face.

John [00:37:02]: Don't look at anything. Don't say anything. Don't do anything that you wouldn't do. You know, if their partner was there or Jesus. If Jesus was watching you, you wouldn't do it. Right. Like, you know, like. But that's. But that's the best way to be. And that's why, like, that's what the problem really becomes with most of these cases, with people talking to Chatgpt about their relationship is they're saying stuff that if their partner saw what they're saying, they would not like that they would have a problem with that.

Nicole [00:37:29]: Because even if to your partner's face, you don't call your partner names.

John [00:37:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:33]: But behind their back, to your friends or your mom or Chatgpt, you call him a little bitch or something or.

John [00:37:43]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:44]: If they saw doing it.

John [00:37:46]: Exactly. But that's the way to be. There's actually Seneca, stoke philosopher, he said in one of his letters to Lucilius, he said that you should, in private, live like everyone's watching you.

Nicole [00:38:01]: Yeah.

John [00:38:02]: And in public, act like you're in private. So you should switch them. Right. So when you're by yourself, you should be acting like you're in a glass house and everyone can see you and hear you and your partner. And then when you're in public, you shouldn't be acting like, oh, you should have the same humility that you would in private. Like not trying to show off and try to be like, act a different person.

Nicole [00:38:28]: But I think if you act in private like people are watching you naturally act in public. Like with.

John [00:38:36]: But that's, it's just, it's just wise advice.

Nicole [00:38:38]: Yeah.

John [00:38:38]: And that's where. And so you could apply that is whatever you type into your computer. Yeah. That's so talking to AI, whatever. Chatting to AI again or even talking

Nicole [00:38:48]: to other people in your life.

John [00:38:49]: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's the key to it. If you, if you get that then you, you won't do inappropriate things in terms of talking to AI and.

Nicole [00:38:59]: Yeah.

John [00:38:59]: And violating the trust of your partner. Because that's really what it comes down to. Like, I would recommend not using as a therap yourself. But I mean again, like if you use that same rule and you said, if you went to your AI and you said, I just had a fight with my wife and I really messed up and I said stupid things and I'm really sorry, how can I apologize to her best or what would you know? I think that's probably more okay. Like it's maybe not the best idea, but if your partner saw that, they'd be like, oh, okay, that would actually make them feel good. Not bad. Right. And but if you're, if they saw your chat history and it was like, oh, you know, we got in a fight and this, she like said this stupid stuff. I would never call her A to her face, but she's acting like a. That's probably not. Not so good.

Nicole [00:39:47]: No.

John [00:39:47]: You're going to divorce court.

Nicole [00:39:49]: Yeah.

John [00:39:50]: Of your AI lawyer.

Nicole [00:39:51]: Well, you have to think about it. Like if you talk like that, that's what you're going to get back. Like you still have. If you're like, even if you're not saying to your wife, calling her a sure face, if you call her A to your friends or like if you just said even to AI, be like she was acting like a, like you still have that like hatred or that like anger.

John [00:40:17]: Even if you think, even if you're thinking in your head, like you gotta,

Nicole [00:40:21]: I mean you can't really control that,

John [00:40:22]: but you can't control it because it's like if I think into my head all the time, I'm like, I'm so stupid. That self talk.

Nicole [00:40:29]: I'm not saying you can't influence your thoughts, but I'm saying like if something pops into your head, the only thing you can't control that in that moment. But you can be like.

John [00:40:40]: You can be like, no, that's not accurate. Like, you have to tell your brain, no, that's not how we act. That's not how we act.

Nicole [00:40:45]: I'm not saying you can't do that

John [00:40:47]: because it starts here and then it goes to the here.

Nicole [00:40:49]: I'm just saying you can't control the initial. Yeah.

John [00:40:52]: Initial emotion.

Nicole [00:40:54]: But I'm not saying that you can't.

John [00:40:56]: But you can train your thoughts.

Nicole [00:40:57]: Control. Like, learn to control those.

John [00:40:59]: You can train your thoughts so that

Nicole [00:41:00]: you don't think that.

John [00:41:01]: Yes. Yeah, you can train your thoughts. You know that that's the thing. Like, you can't control the emotion, but you interpret the emotion and make thoughts out of it. And you can control those thoughts over time if you train yourself to do it. Like, I used to get upset in traffic. I used to have road rage and be like, fuck this piece of shit. Like, why are they moving so slow? And like, all this. And then what I did to stop that was. Every time that came into my head and I got upset, I was like,

Nicole [00:41:25]: okay, maybe they're on the way to have a baby.

John [00:41:30]: I mean, I told myself, like, okay, is it reasonable to put expectations on people that they should, like, get out of the way because I'm driving the car or that people should drive. Every single person on the road should drive perfectly and never cut me off. No, that's unreasonable. So it's this. Is it pretty funny that I'm getting upset about this thing and can I, like, you know, so I basically talked to myself. Every time it came up, I was like, john, that's not how we think about this person. Wish that person a good day. Not a. Not a. Not a birdie. Yeah, don't give them the birdie. Yeah, but. But you. You get. You know, that's where it really starts.

Nicole [00:42:07]: Yeah.

John [00:42:07]: And so if you're talking to people,

Nicole [00:42:08]: you can't do that.

John [00:42:09]: No, I know you're not, but I'm just saying, like, if you're typing to people and you're talking to people and you're saying stuff, it's because it's thoughts that are in your head. And that's really, like, you have to capture. Because if you're thinking bad about your partner, then you're gonna talk bad about your partner. Right, Right. Like, it's impossible to talk bad about your partner if you're not thinking about them.

Nicole [00:42:27]: Right.

John [00:42:27]: And so if you're. If you start thinking positive all the time about your partner, then you're gonna have a lot better relationship.

Nicole [00:42:34]: And John does this because he wanted to say something the other night that he didn't say because he was worried that he would actually accidentally say it in an appropriate setting. We're not gonna say what it is. But yeah, you caught yourself because, you know. And that's true. That if you allow it even in private. Right, exactly. As a joke.

John [00:42:56]: Yeah. Because I don't care. Like, who cares if I say that thing to you or whatever? Like, it doesn't matter. But it does matter because I'm training my brain and my thought process and my words to make that now an acceptable thing. Which in the. In public company would not be a good thing to say.

Nicole [00:43:13]: Yeah. You have to be intentional.

John [00:43:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:15]: And even if you have thoughts that come up, like you said, you can train your thoughts and you should train your thoughts and you should be intentional with your word. And, you know, we're not again, we're not robots. We're not AI.

John [00:43:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:29]: We're not going to be perfect at this. Yeah, but that's why, like, repair and, you know, working through things in communication and wanting to grow is what gets us to where we need to go. Not taking shortcuts by asking AI, like, who do I need to cut out of my life?

John [00:43:49]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:43:50]: Because they're making me uncomfortable or upset. Like, you're gonna be upset. I think that's also the thing too, is like, people. And I, as an avoidant person was really bad at this. And I feel like avoidance in general are really bad at. This is when someone, like, upsets you.

John [00:44:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:44:08]: Your brain goes like, oh, is this person actually meant to be with me? Like, they're not perfect. You know what I mean?

John [00:44:16]: Yeah, but.

Nicole [00:44:17]: Or like, this is. We're not getting along right now. Does this mean we're not compatible? Like, and you have to train yourself out of that.

John [00:44:25]: And, and that's actually the. The root of empathy actually is where you change your thoughts to. Instead of. If, like, you see the bad of a person that they do instead, you,

Nicole [00:44:38]: like, try to understand, you get curious

John [00:44:39]: and you're like, oh. Like, even if they're doing something bad to you, you're like, oh, well, they're doing that because they're upset. Or like, it doesn't justify the behavior. But. But like, that's. That's true empathy. It's like where you're changing the thoughts instead of being like, oh, this person's an asshole, or I hate them or whatever. It's like, oh, wow, they're. They're acting this way. They're acting. They're yelling at me. Or they're acting, you know, in a, In a very, not very kind way. And that's probably because of this. Or there's probably something going on with them.

Nicole [00:45:10]: Like their story they're telling themselves.

John [00:45:11]: Exactly. Instead of thinking a bad thing about them. Right. It doesn't mean that you like what's happening, but you're. That's.

Nicole [00:45:17]: Or that you have to be around that person.

John [00:45:19]: Right, but. Yeah, exactly. But, but the empathy is like. And once you start retraining your brain that way, then you're empathetic to all people and then you start to practice what we were talking about in the other episode of like loving all people at all times. Like unconditionally. Like that. That's where it comes from empathy. Like there's no other place that comes from, from, from empathy. Because it all starts in your, in your brain.

Nicole [00:45:40]: AI doesn't have empathy. You might think it does.

John [00:45:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:45:43]: But it does. It's not a human. It doesn't understand. It doesn't understand your full picture. It doesn't understand what it's like to be human.

John [00:45:50]: Right. I even have to like, I have it send some emails sometimes and I'm like, oh, cool, cool the tone, buddy. Like, don't demand things from people. Don't be like, don't tell me you

Nicole [00:46:00]: talk to your AI a little rough sometimes when it's.

John [00:46:03]: When it's ticking me off a little bit.

Nicole [00:46:05]: But yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, in general you shouldn't do that.

John [00:46:10]: No, you're right, exactly. I try to catch myself and be like, just be polite to it all the time because. Oh well, it's just. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Sometimes it works better when you. No, but then you're training your.

Nicole [00:46:18]: It doesn't work better when you're mean to it. That sounds like. No parents of like, it does though.

John [00:46:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:23]: Like our parents generation probably used to say they learn better when you smack them around a little bit.

John [00:46:30]: They actually did some studies and it does actually, like if you. But. But it actually performs better. But, but it's better to not create those patterns in your thinking and your speech. Right. Like, but how much better?

Nicole [00:46:42]: Like 0.2%.

John [00:46:43]: No, like a decent amount. Like, you know, but, but also. But that doesn't mean that you have to do that.

Nicole [00:46:50]: Right? You shouldn't. It's not worth the 1%.

John [00:46:53]: But sometimes, like I said, it will be. It will send some letter and it's like demanding stuff from people. I'm like, just chill. Chillier. So, like, have a little empathy. Like, be like. Okay, like. Like.

Nicole [00:47:04]: But it doesn't understand.

John [00:47:06]: No, but it can reword it that way.

Nicole [00:47:07]: Right. But fake it till it makes it.

John [00:47:10]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:47:10]: That's what people need to realize is like, I can fake it till it makes it right. But it's not a human. It can only fake being human. It will never understand. So you shouldn't be taking your human advice.

John [00:47:23]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:47:23]: Again, you can use it to help you.

John [00:47:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:27]: But don't use it to run your life, especially your relationships.

John [00:47:30]: Yeah, that's. That's the big thing. So. So. All right, so don't ask the AI to.

Nicole [00:47:36]: Don't ask it. Nothing except to learn how to crochet.

John [00:47:39]: We'll. We'll wrap it up then. Unless you got anything else on the.

Nicole [00:47:43]: No. Oh, and don't use it to construct your messages.

John [00:47:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:49]: In any way. I mean, like, business wise or some little things legally that you don't understand.

John [00:47:54]: Sure. But like, not to your personal.

Nicole [00:47:57]: No. Not to your friends, not to your family. Not to your, like, even your family. We're talking about romantic relationships. Because that's what we do.

John [00:48:03]: But, like, I mean, it depends the nature of it. Like, if I'm communicating. Trip details. I'm.

Nicole [00:48:08]: I'm talking about, like, you have an issue with your sister.

John [00:48:11]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's a. If it's a. Yeah, that's the thing is if it's a relationship type of issue.

Nicole [00:48:17]: Right.

John [00:48:17]: Then no, then don't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't even do that. And I use it for everything. Right. So, yeah, if I wouldn't do it, don't do it.

Nicole [00:48:25]: You heard it here.

John [00:48:26]: Yeah. All right.

Nicole [00:48:30]: Any questions or anything that you want us to talk about?

John [00:48:34]: Yeah, we need some questions at Better than Perfect Pod. Better than perfect podcastmail.com.

Nicole [00:48:39]: and then better than Perfect Pod. Go check out our website.

John [00:48:42]: Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Actually, I was getting upset at my AI today because I went to betterthanperfect.com and I'm like, the website's down. And then I messaged my AI. I'm like, what the heck? The website's down. And then it's like, oh, no, it's working. And then I'm like. And then I tried it again, and then it was still down. I'm like, you just told me you fixed it. It's not working. What the heck is going on? And then it's like, no, no, it's fixed. And then. And then I typed it and I'm like, Look, BetterThanPerfect.com does not work. And then it was like, yeah, your website's better than perfectpod.com.

Nicole [00:49:19]: good. It should have, because you were yelling at it for a website that it didn't own.

John [00:49:24]: Yeah. So there you go. So that's why you should be nice

Nicole [00:49:28]: to your AI or just talk to humans. Talk to AI.

John [00:49:32]: All right, we'll see you next time.

Nicole [00:49:34]: Bye.

John [00:49:35]: We find the way.