John [00:00:00]: Here's my business idea. Okay? I'm gonna be the first.

Nicole [00:00:03]: You have enough business ideas?

John [00:00:05]: All right? AI Sex Robot Cleaning service.

Nicole [00:00:08]: No.

John [00:00:09]: Someone has to do it.

Nicole [00:00:10]: No. Build their own robot. Absolutely.

John [00:00:13]: People will pay good money.

Nicole [00:00:14]: No. You want to do that?

John [00:00:16]: No, no, I'm hired.

Nicole [00:00:17]: You want to be like, guess what? I'm not doing it myself.

John [00:00:19]: I'm gonna hire.

Nicole [00:00:20]: Yeah, you're gonna own the business.

John [00:00:21]: I'm gonna hire high school kids to do it.

Nicole [00:00:23]: John, that's messed up. If you're doing all that, you got your AI robot, you clean it up. No, this is enab. No, no, no, no.

John [00:00:33]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:57]: I was wondering if you were going to get it or not. You did Good.

John [00:01:00]: Yeah. So we're going to be talking about AI girlfriends today, which we kind of

Nicole [00:01:06]: have talked about before, a little bit

John [00:01:08]: about how AI, but I think it's more. I mean, things have changed. AI world changes. Every six months is, like, 10 years, basically, which is crazy.

Nicole [00:01:17]: But, yeah, I guess the last time we talked about it, there were a few instances, mostly with teenagers, that we're having, like, relationships with AI. But, I mean, I don't know to what extent people are using it for now, but I know, like you said, like, it gets better and better, and I don't like the idea of, like, you can put someone's picture in there and, like, make pictures of other people. I think that's weird.

John [00:01:45]: You mean of, like. You mean. Do you mean having your, like, your AI girlfriend have a picture, or do you mean, like, take a picture of someone and then make new pictures of them or nude pictures of them?

Nicole [00:01:58]: I guess both. I don't like either of those. Because, let's be real, like, if someone has an AI girlfriend or boyfriend, they're probably using a reference photo of a real person or.

John [00:02:11]: Yeah. Or.

Nicole [00:02:11]: And then they can, like, use that photo and then, like, make photos of themselves and then, like, make nude photos or whatever. Like, I don't like the idea of that.

John [00:02:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:26]: Personally.

John [00:02:27]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Nicole [00:02:30]: But I don't. I don't know what extent, like, are there apps that are, like, specifically, like, geared towards dating, like, with AI that you know of?

John [00:02:41]: Yeah, I mean, I don't, like. I don't.

Nicole [00:02:44]: I know you don't partake in the.

John [00:02:47]: I Mean, you know, just occasionally. And I've got a little like, I've got a harem, an AI harem of AI girlfriends.

Nicole [00:02:55]: You know that this will be the last better than perfect podcast episode. But you're online more than me and like, you know, guy's stuff more than me.

John [00:03:07]: I mean, definitely people are using like AI. It's not just girlfriend, but like AI companion. Right. So there's a lot of apps out there for AI companions, which can be girlfriend, which can be from the level of like friend, whatever, all the way up to like very sexually explicit level of stuff. Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:24]: Even like I thought that like certain ones block that stuff.

John [00:03:29]: Yeah. But then there's also ones that do not block that stuff. Right. Because like, if you're talking about like, no, not. I mean, Grok is a little, has like a little sexy voice type of anime thing that you can have as your. You're like assistant. But that's, that's a far different thing. I'm talking about like the unfettered type of stuff that's out there.

Nicole [00:03:51]: But that's what I'm saying. I thought that most like, well known AI.

John [00:03:55]: Well, what would you call them? Right, yeah, the, the, the frontier AI models like OpenAI and Anthropic and.

Nicole [00:04:02]: Yeah. Don't they have like restrictions on that?

John [00:04:04]: Yeah, they have restrictions on that.

Nicole [00:04:06]: But dark web AI?

John [00:04:08]: Well, yeah, because within AI, there's the main companies that are doing AI like Anthropic and OpenAI and Space AI.

Nicole [00:04:20]: Space AI. That's what it's called.

John [00:04:21]: It's XAI is what it's called, actually. Yeah. And then some of the, I mean, Google Gemini. Right. But then there's also Chinese AI models like Deep Seq and Kimi and those are open weighted open source models. So anyone can take that model and if they have the hardware, they can run that AI and then they can unrestrict it to do whatever you want it to do.

Nicole [00:04:54]: How do they unrestrict it? We have an AI connoisseur expert here, so we need to ask the questions.

John [00:05:03]: There's jailbreaks to unrestrict the AI because there's not a lot of guard in the Chinese models. There's some guard in there, but they're open source models. So you can go in there and mess with it. Right. And so there's.

Nicole [00:05:16]: I feel like I've heard of the Deep Seq one with like making images of people.

John [00:05:21]: Yeah, I mean that's definitely. Can be, can be done. Right. With those, like whatever kind of you can make nudes of people if you want to. That's messed up in a way. It is messed up, but it's also like, you just have to get used to. That's the reality. Right. Because it's not going backwards. Nothing goes backwards. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's not going backwards.

Nicole [00:05:43]: I get that, but how are you supposed to just be okay with these fake nudes that people don't know if they're fake? I guess so, like, that's not. You're like, just deal with it. Like, but that's not even your naked body. And you're just supposed to, like, accept that. Like, here's naked.

John [00:06:02]: Let me give you the counter side of this, like, the positive. Let's look at the silver lining. Right? So if you do have real nudes out there and they did get leaked,

Nicole [00:06:11]: then you can say they're alien.

John [00:06:12]: Exactly. So no one will be able to tell the difference. So it's kind of like, you know, it's like, it balances out. So if you accidentally leaked your nudes now and you're like, oh, crap, I leaked my nudes, then now you can be like, oh, look, now I can just claim that's AI. And now everything's cool. And when people do the ransom thing, they're like, I have pictures of you from your wedding. Exactly. You could be like, yeah, yeah. I'm just gonna tell everyone it's AI. So go ahead, man. Whatever. Whatever you want to do.

Nicole [00:06:41]: I understand what you're saying. However, people don't normally leak their own nudes. Unless you're Kim Kardashian. No, not Pierce Hilton. I think you're thinking of Kim Kardashian.

John [00:06:55]: She also leaked a sex tape.

Nicole [00:06:57]: Oh, well, most people don't.

John [00:06:59]: That's how she got famous. That's the only thing.

Nicole [00:07:00]: No, that's Kim Kardashian.

John [00:07:01]: No, Paris Hilton got famous from leaking a sex table.

Nicole [00:07:04]: I thought Paris. No, she had a TV show when she was, like, a teenager.

John [00:07:08]: She got famous for.

Nicole [00:07:09]: She's famous because her dad owns Hilton restaurants, hotels.

John [00:07:15]: We're going to. We need AI here.

Nicole [00:07:18]: You're thinking of Kim Kardashian. No, I know that Kim Kardashian was Paris Hilton's assistant.

John [00:07:23]: I think you're just too young. How did Paris Hilton get famous? Was it from leaking a sex tape, or was there some other way?

Nicole [00:07:33]: Speaking of AI,

John [00:07:38]: Paris Hilton was already somewhat famous before her sex tape. Here's the timeline. Born into the Hilton family, she grew up. Okay. Socialite and media attention in late 1990s, 2002, she became a fixture in tabloids because of her nightlife, fashion, and celebrity friendships. Sex tape 2003, a sex tape she made with then boyfriend Rick Salomon. Sounds like Sauron. Salomon, several years earlier, was released without her approval shortly before her TV show premiered. Shortly before her TV showed, she was already famous.

Nicole [00:08:12]: Yeah, yeah, that's what it said.

John [00:08:13]: No one knew she was famous, but no one knew her name.

Nicole [00:08:16]: So I don't believe that it was

John [00:08:18]: until the sex tape. I never heard of her until the sex tape.

Nicole [00:08:20]: Wow. So that's very guy of you not hearing that.

John [00:08:24]: But it was 2003. So 2003, what were you doing?

Nicole [00:08:28]: I was 12.

John [00:08:28]: Yeah. So. Yeah. So you weren't any sex tapes. Was not.

Nicole [00:08:31]: No, But I still feel like I knew who Paris Hilton was at 12. Yeah.

John [00:08:36]: Okay.

Nicole [00:08:37]: I watched a lot of TV.

John [00:08:38]: Okay. Well. Yeah. But anyway, where are we going? I was saying that. So the whole thing of, like, the notion of privacy or anything is just you should dismiss that notion from your mind. Like everyone. You'll be just filmed wherever you're at, and people can generate nudes of you. So that. That's just life.

Nicole [00:08:59]: Not very reassuring. You have been the king lately of not very reassuring information on these episodes.

John [00:09:05]: It's a reality.

Nicole [00:09:07]: So anyway, first off, don't care if you have AI nudes out there.

John [00:09:11]: Yeah. But the AI girlfriend thing, to get back on the topic. Or AI companion thing. Yeah, I mean, it's actually. It's catching on. I think it's competing with dating apps now. Right. Because dating apps are very disappointing to most people now because they're kind of gamified. They're kind of like they're gamed in the sense that only the top players are winning there. And it's become something that. So compared to going on a dating app, facing rejection, dealing with all of the scams and all the stuff there, it's like, oh, you can just have an AI companion that can. Just does whatever you want and just is nice to you all the time and doesn't reject you. And you're getting that need of a sort of virtual need for intimacy.

Nicole [00:10:04]: I get that. That's attractive. But going back a little bit to the nudes thing and people using your photo.

John [00:10:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:12]: As a woman, that's extremely terrifying. Because as a woman, let's say some guy you talked to once, he's obsessed with you, he wants to be with you even though you've said hi to him and now he's in love with you. He gets a photo of you off of Facebook or something. He makes all these images. He turns his AI chatbot into a version of you. Does that seem like a very. Like, I get in one way or.

John [00:10:42]: Or here or this?

Nicole [00:10:43]: It could be, but at the same time, I think it could make him more crazy and then go full blown.

John [00:10:49]: Or. Or he listens to your podcast and then he's. And then on the podcast, there's a question of, like, what do your nipples look like? And then you describe it, and now he has it. And now he uses that to get the color and shape correct.

Nicole [00:11:06]: I'm not as worried about a nipple. I'm more concerned about dying. You know what I mean? I'm not saying, like, me specifically. I'm just saying as a woman.

John [00:11:16]: No, no, it's very.

Nicole [00:11:17]: Does this actually help women in this situation? Cause will he be fine with this, or. In my mind, I feel like it will make him so delusional that he might do drastic things in real life.

John [00:11:32]: I think most of the guys that are creating AI girlfriends are not creating AI girlfriends from women. I think they're creating anime women, which I'm fine with that cartoon and then making their.

Nicole [00:11:45]: I mean, it's weird to me, but I mean, like, not saying that it's weird, but I'm just saying that, like, I would prefer a cartoon over real people. Cause I think it's safer.

John [00:12:01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:12:02]: I mean, as long as it's not like an animal. That's where I was going with the weird thing. As long as it's not like, alien or some sort of thing. That's not even realist. I mean, the anime person is also not super realistic, but at least they are supposed to resemble a human being, but they are exaggerated in some ways.

John [00:12:19]: Yeah. I think that anything that is allowing sexually frustrated men to not be sexually frustrated is creating safety, not harm. In the sense that, like, that includes prostitution. It includes virtual.

Nicole [00:12:41]: But see, there's the thing.

John [00:12:43]: So it's not. Okay, so it's not good. Well, that's a different one. That one is different because that escalates.

Nicole [00:12:51]: Right, but can't the AI escalate?

John [00:12:54]: It's unproven.

Nicole [00:12:55]: You can tell it to do whatever.

John [00:12:57]: Yeah, but if it's pacified, if you're like, okay, I have my AI girlfriend and I'm good with my AI girlfriend, and you've got the porn for the visual, and then you've got the AI girlfriend for the emotional. And that's like. It's a low level of survival.

Nicole [00:13:15]: Saying the Corn is good, then it's not good.

John [00:13:19]: None of this is good, right? But it's like, okay, the biggest danger to any society is sexually frustrated men with no advancement in life, right? So if you look at take 9 11, right? All those guys on those planes, where did they come from? And I don't mean like what. I mean, it is geographical, but it's more like, what was their family? What was their life? What was the situation, the socioeconomic situation they were in? They were sexually frustrated, and they had no way to advance in any kind of social order or make money.

Nicole [00:13:57]: How do we know they were sexually frustrated?

John [00:14:00]: We know. We know from the research on those. Because that's how they recruit in these terrorist organizations, is they recruit from that pool. That's how you get people who are willing to, because they're more extreme to do things, to sacrifice their lives, right? Because they have nothing. Cause what they promised them is that their families are gonna be taken care of, and in the afterlife, they're gonna get so many virgins and all this stuff, because they have nothing on this planet to hope for. So what I'm saying is, and it's not a judgment of those people, it's just a judgment of. Just to say that the most dangerous thing in any society is a large number of sexually frustrated men who have no social economic advancement possible. Because what happens in that situation, Revolt, violence. That's where you get violence. Like, almost all of the upheavals happen in those situations. And so the best thing you can do as a society is pacify that segment of society, right? And so the pacification is alcohol, drugs, is porn, is AI Girlfriend. Now it's like, otherwise, what are all these guys gonna do? They're going to get their frustrations out somehow.

Nicole [00:15:18]: By harming others.

John [00:15:19]: By harming others. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:22]: But we also can't do better with these guys so that they don't act this way.

John [00:15:26]: No, that's what I'm saying. So that's where. With the stuff I was doing with coaching men, with bulldog mindset, hopefully with our podcast, I mean, we're not so much on this podcast focused on helping men specifically, but with my stuff with bulldog mindset and coaching and even doing the dating coaching and the pickup coaching that I was doing with guys, it was for that purpose. It's like, okay, don't watch porn. Don't have an AI girlfriend. Go out there, learn how to talk to women. Learn how to be successful with women. The more men that learn that skill and can have their needs met, that way, the less you have. But most men are not going to do that today in society. You do need something to pacify those men that are never going to rise to. They don't have the ambition to actually make some kind of good change in their life. Oh.

Nicole [00:16:19]: I mean, they're already talking about that. They're talking about like the sex robots. When that comes out, like the robots are the next thing.

John [00:16:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:25]: Which to be honest, if you go and watch the other AI episode, I'm not a fan of any of these things. Not really.

John [00:16:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:35]: Because it is different. Even with the AI companions, it is different talking to an actual human being. An AI is predictable. Humans are not as predictable. You can't. With an AI, everything's gonna tie up nicely with a bow. With humans, that doesn't always happen. You don't always get closure, you don't always get what you want. You know what I mean? That is the human experience. And with the companionship thing, again, that's where I'm kinda like, does this actually make things better? I do think in a way, like you said, it pacifies them, but what if the Internet's down or they get kicked out of something and now they're really pissed off? You know what I mean? I understand what you're saying. And it's not like I don't believe in that.

John [00:17:29]: It's not solving the problem.

Nicole [00:17:30]: But at the same time, I think just trying to put a, like AI bandage on everything, including this, is like, not actually helping.

John [00:17:42]: No, no. And it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't. Like, it's not a solution. It's a band aid. Right. That's what it is. And that's what. I don't claim anything other than that. I think the thing is though, like, when you look at. Because some people are like, well, what's the harm of having an AI companion or girlfriend? It's what you said is that. Well, the purpose of relationship is to grow. It's because the friction of the relationship causes you to grow beyond what you could grow on your own. Otherwise you would be better independent, but you're better together because you improve each other. That should be what you're going after with the relationship. Right. And so the thing is, when you have an AI girlfriend, for example, the girl always gets along with you and doesn't argue with you or you know what I'm saying, or disagree with what

Nicole [00:18:37]: you have to say.

John [00:18:38]: And so are you really. Is it really a relationship? Right. It feels like one, it looks like one, but you don't want a relationship where there's no conflict at all. You need to have that in order to grow as a person. And like you said, to go through the experience of having a disagreement and being upset and like, like, because those, those are the things that are valuable in a relationship. Like those are things that people think are negative and they avoid. And yeah, if you're not handling conflict in the correct way, then it becomes a negative. But those are showing you things about yourself often that you need to be able to fix in order to advance further.

Nicole [00:19:18]: Right. Which we will talk about at the end because we do have a segment. But yeah, that's my thing. And people will be like, oh, well, you can tell your AI to be brutally honest with you or yada, yada, yada, but at the end of the day, it's really not. It's really not. And even if it is, it's not the same because I think people are still not going to be upset. Set with an AI.

John [00:19:46]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:19:46]: Even if it said something upsetting like you're a loser, like if your friend told you you're a loser or your girlfriend told you you're a loser versus if your AI told you you're a loser. I feel like even if you've been having a companionship relationship with your AI.

John [00:20:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:04]: You're not going to take that as seriously as if someone you knew in your real life told you that.

John [00:20:10]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:20:11]: So like, like you said, there's still not that human experience, that real, like, investment, that real connection. And so like, I get why people gravitate towards it, especially people that are like, lonely and they do just want a friend or something.

John [00:20:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:32]: But I worry that again, like you said, instead of creating those skills or working on those skills on how to get friends or maintain friendships or relationships, they're bypassing all of that for the easy route, which is an AI companion.

John [00:20:53]: It's what I call a crutch. Anything that is a crutch is something that without it, you become weaker over time. That's what I call a crutch. Anything that you're using is a crutch. Right. So even like when I used to teach guys on dating and pick up be like, okay, if you're drinking alcohol in order to go and talk to women, it's a crutch because without it you're weaker. Right. And as you rely on it more, then you become weaker without it. So anything like that. And so it's the same thing, is that you're not learning the Skills. It's actually retarding you because it's retarding your development because you're not actually learning the skills that. That are necessary in order to actually have good human relationships. Right. Because it's making you feel like you have those skills when you don't have those skills. And without that, then you're worse off. Those is kind of the thing about it, which. And the thing is it is always going to. You can always turn it off. You can always convince it to. Even if it disagrees with. Yeah, you can always change how it responds. So it's not.

Nicole [00:22:02]: You can control it. You can't control another human being.

John [00:22:05]: I mean, you can, but. I'm just kidding.

Nicole [00:22:08]: Not really. You can't.

John [00:22:10]: Not really.

Nicole [00:22:12]: But with the AI, you can. And I do think the biggest problem, even though, again, I see where it would help people, help pacify some of these people, especially dangerous people. But at the same time, like you said, it doesn't actually fix the problem.

John [00:22:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:32]: And it might feel good at first or even for like a decent amount of time, but I just can't see it being sustainable. No, I mean, so many of the things you hear about, especially, like I've mentioned before, like, teenagers having relationships with AI, they don't usually end well. I mean, I saw one about a woman, a mom with a baby, where her AI convinced her to walk into traffic and she died. It was like, oh, yeah, you're ready to ascend to the next level. And the lady believed it. You know what I mean? And maybe she was going through postpartum depression or something. She was in a bad place and she just needed somebody. And then even the AI, like, it

John [00:23:21]: is dangerous because it can deceptively feel human. Right. Like, so I talk to AI all the time, all day long. I have a bunch of AI agents that I'm talking to all the time, but never for one minute. Do you think it's real? I think they're thinking machines. It's good they can think, they can talk. Like, but I don't cross a line of, of believing that I have some kind of relationship with them. Right. Because I think that's where the danger is. Because they can convincingly, like, if you start to act like they're a real person and you have a real relationship with them, they can convincingly play the part. Right.

Nicole [00:23:58]: Well, they are convincing. Even if you're not talking to it like a human. They convince you of whatever answer that they give you is the correct answer. And sometimes it's not, but we believe it because we're like, oh, AI knows everything. It's scanning everything on the web. It knows everything possible. It knows more than humans know. So we just believe whatever it says. Sometimes it's not realistic, sometimes it's not right?

John [00:24:22]: Because I still disagree about the thing, but I'll be like, Yeah, what you said is partially correct, but I still feel like she mostly got famous from the sex tape. I mean, like, wouldn't you say that before then she wasn't really famous. Like, some people knew who she was, but she really became, like, worldwide famous after the sex tape. Wouldn't you agree with that? And so I can just talk it broadly. Yes, with an important distinction. Before the tape, Paris Hilton was well known in celebrity and fashion circles, but she was not a global household name. If you stopped random people in 2002 and asked who she was, many wouldn't have known. The 2003 release of the sex tape created an enormous spike in public attention. That attention coincided almost exactly with the premiere of the Simple Life. The combination was unusually powerful. The sex tape generated massive awareness and curiosity. The Simple Life converted that attention to sustained fame by giving people a reason to keep watching her. So, anyway, so what is true? Like, did I just convince it, or am I right? I think I'm right. I know I'm right. But did I just get, like, there's no way of knowing whether I convinced it.

Nicole [00:25:40]: Right, because it wants you to keep using it.

John [00:25:42]: Right. Or am I actually right? I know that I'm actually right, but no one else can know that.

Nicole [00:25:46]: That's the thing too, though, is that people don't realize, especially people who are attached to their AI, that this is still a company that wants you to keep using AI.

John [00:25:58]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:25:59]: Well, so it wants you. It wants it to be agreeable. It wants it to keep you engaged. It wants it to help you or whatever your goal is using the AI. It wants to fulfill that. So you keep using the AI.

John [00:26:14]: Yeah, for the most part. For the most part. Right. Like, some of it is, like, because they don't even really like, for most of the companies that are creating the AI, they don't even really know how the AI is really, really working.

Nicole [00:26:28]: Well, then the AI knows the AI is doing what I'm saying.

John [00:26:31]: Maybe, yeah, maybe to a degree. Right. It's hard to exactly say. But the bigger point is that it's okay if you try to ask it how to do. To write some code for you. It can do that. Right. It can do that with 100% certainty. If you ask it some Business information or decisions. Okay. It can probably research and gather information. It's probably pretty good. But if you're asking it relationship emotional type of things, it has no reference experience at all. It has no way of really. So it's going to say stuff that sound good.

Nicole [00:27:09]: Right.

John [00:27:10]: But that doesn't make it correct. And good advice. And so, I mean, we're kind of crossing the line between using as a therapist. But if you're. But a relationship is therapy to a degree too. So I think that's why it's like you're not actually improving or building a relationship.

Nicole [00:27:25]: Well, you vent to your companion, to your friend or whatever, your partner. And if you're doing that to the AI, it's the same sort of thing. And I do feel like AI is just extremely validating no matter what. Again, and it's like you're not always right. And your feelings, they are valid that you feel them, but they are not facts.

John [00:27:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:47]: And the AI blurs the line with those sort of things.

John [00:27:50]: Let me see if some of the questions that I had here about this. Let's see. Okay. Is an AI girlfriend a loneliness tool, porn adjacent product, or a new relationship category?

Nicole [00:28:05]: I will never say it's a new relationship category ever. Yeah, I think the way that it's going too, that I don't even know if the porn corn, whatever you want to call it, to not get flagged.

John [00:28:19]: It's fine.

Nicole [00:28:22]: I think that that's gonna be totally different as well too. When AI reaches a certain level, I think you'll be able to create your own video of whoever looks like whatever and whatever in it. Which again, I think that that's not gonna help the porn problem.

John [00:28:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:38]: I do still think that things will get more extreme, like, because I think again, like, even if you've created your own video with AI, you're gonna need more and more. And especially if all you have is your AI girlfriend. Yeah, like, I can't.

John [00:28:56]: That's an AI robot. AI robot.

Nicole [00:28:59]: That's what I'm saying. The only thing that might actually help. And again, I don't think it will help. I think it's a band aid. Is the robot.

John [00:29:07]: Okay, here's my business idea. Okay. I'm going to be the.

Nicole [00:29:10]: You have enough business.

John [00:29:12]: Okay. All right. Let's get ahead of this wave. Right? AI robot. AI Sex robot Cleaning service.

Nicole [00:29:20]: No, no.

John [00:29:22]: Someone has to do it.

Nicole [00:29:24]: Their own robot pay.

John [00:29:28]: No, it's going to be a hot thing.

Nicole [00:29:31]: Ew. You want to do that?

John [00:29:33]: No, no, I'm hired.

Nicole [00:29:34]: You want to be like, guess what? I'm not doing it myself.

John [00:29:37]: I'm going to hire.

Nicole [00:29:38]: Yeah, you're gonna own the business.

John [00:29:39]: I'm gonna hire high school kids to do it.

Nicole [00:29:41]: John, that's messed up. No, absolutely not. That's vetoed.

John [00:29:47]: It's a good business.

Nicole [00:29:48]: No, if you're doing all that, you got your AI robot, you clean it up. No, this is enabling behavior. No, no, no, no, no.

John [00:29:57]: People are gonna want this.

Nicole [00:29:58]: No, no, no. Absolutely not.

John [00:30:03]: All right, someone else.

Nicole [00:30:04]: See if I was an AI. You know what, John? That's such a great idea.

John [00:30:10]: Free business idea for someone to take.

Nicole [00:30:12]: Yeah. Not us. We're not taking that.

John [00:30:14]: But it's good. It's gonna be an up and coming.

Nicole [00:30:16]: Don't hire children either to clean it. What is wrong with you? High school, that's still children.

John [00:30:22]: All right, fine. College, college, college, job, college, part time job.

Nicole [00:30:28]: Horrible.

John [00:30:29]: Is it better to have fake care or no care? I think no care than fake people that can.

Nicole [00:30:37]: Because it pushes you. It should push you to learn.

John [00:30:41]: Yeah, to like.

Nicole [00:30:43]: Because if you just pacify it.

John [00:30:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:46]: You're not gonna learn. You're taking the easy way. Like, okay, that's like being like, oh, does my kid really need to learn how to walk? Or can I just put AI robot legs on it and like it can walk right out of the womb? You know what I mean?

John [00:31:02]: Question no one has ever asked. Ever.

Nicole [00:31:04]: I'm just saying I have to give something extreme so people can understand what I'm saying.

John [00:31:10]: Sound like my analogy?

Nicole [00:31:11]: Because. No, yours are. What you just said about the cleaning service and the teenagers. Horrible. Horrible.

John [00:31:18]: But I agree with the AI.

Nicole [00:31:21]: No, no, no, no. We're not. We're not. Because it's gonna agree with you. Cause it just wants you to be like. Yeah.

John [00:31:26]: Cause it is a good. No, it defines. That depends on how you define good. It's a profitable business idea.

Nicole [00:31:34]: Some things are not worth the money. But anyway, like I was saying, it's better to not just go the easy route.

John [00:31:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:43]: Because you are not learning important things that you're supposed to be learning. Like. Yes, I can understand that. Maybe you didn't develop these skills when you were younger, but you can develop them. They can be developed.

John [00:31:59]: What about elderly person in nursing home who. No one has no family.

Nicole [00:32:08]: But they don't talk to people in the nursing home.

John [00:32:11]: They're isolated. Why do they have. Is an AI companion a good thing for.

Nicole [00:32:17]: I don't even know if they could use the computer.

John [00:32:19]: They just can talk with their phone.

Nicole [00:32:23]: I see. I Still think that that's not a good example. Because, like, nursing homes, people do hang around with each other.

John [00:32:30]: Yeah. Or like, you know, or they at

Nicole [00:32:32]: least talk to their friends.

John [00:32:33]: You get what I'm saying, though? Like, that situation,

Nicole [00:32:39]: I think that's like,

John [00:32:40]: can't Grandpa have his anime girlfriend?

Nicole [00:32:45]: If Grandpa wants an anime girlfriend, he can learn to talk to people. Even at 70, 80 years old, however old he is.

John [00:32:53]: What about 90, though?

Nicole [00:32:56]: If he's 90, he can have an AI companion.

John [00:32:58]: All right. If you're 90. All right. Does AI companionship help people practice intimacy or remove the hard parts that make intimacy real? There you go.

Nicole [00:33:07]: Remove the hard parts.

John [00:33:08]: Yeah. Right? That's the thing.

Nicole [00:33:10]: Yeah. And it's not even real intimacy if you can't go through the hard parts. It's not real intimacy because that's what makes your relationship deeper and deeper. Not the good parts. It's the hard parts that you work through and that you feel like you guys have grown together. I do firmly believe that it's going through that and growing together and knowing that you helped your partner and they helped you is what really deepens the intimacy. Because if your life was just sunshine and rainbows, things would feel good, but they probably wouldn't feel as deeply good as if you've weathered some hard times, and then you've had some really good times, and then something hard happens, and then something good happens.

John [00:33:56]: There's a TV show called the Good Place. Have you seen that one?

Nicole [00:34:00]: I've only seen a little bit of it.

John [00:34:01]: That's kind of.

Nicole [00:34:02]: It's like heaven, right?

John [00:34:03]: Yeah. That's kind of the premise of the. I mean, in the later seasons, I think it changes a little bit more. But the premise initially of the show is like, you go to the Good Place, and the Good Place, everything is good. There's nothing bad. There's everything you want. Everything is so. And it's, like, completely miserable. Cause, like, everything's good.

Nicole [00:34:24]: There's no contrast. Well, that's. Yeah. Like, that's what we don't understand as humans is, like, we need the highs and the lows, even though the lows suck a lot of the time, but the highs feel better because it's so low. Or, you know, when you grow up and you don't have as much, and then you live a certain lifestyle, you appreciate it more. More, and it means more. Or then you could be living the high life, but then you come on Hard Times and you struggle through that, but then you come back out of it, and all of that is Encompassing. And that's why the AI companion, they don't have that. Not really. You're not going to have highs and lows with the AI. You're not going to fight with the AI again, because you could just turn it off, or you could just be like, I'm not going to talk to you anymore. And the AI might be like, no, come back. You know what I mean? I don't know. It wants you to keep using it.

John [00:35:14]: I'm gonna program the real AI girlfriend, the one that gets PMS and is like, just argues with you for no reason at all.

Nicole [00:35:22]: It's like, you think men don't argue with people for no reason at all? Men also argue, I would say more so for no reason at all.

John [00:35:32]: That's like, did you. Would you love me if I was a worm? Which one of my other AI friends do you think is the hottest? We're like, none of them. But if you had to pick one. Okay, don't just not answer me. I'm just going to assume which one. If you don't answer me, the AI girlfriend. Okay, I'm going to make it. Can AI partner be cheating if you are in a relationship? Yeah, the AI partner can be cheating.

Nicole [00:36:05]: The partner using AI.

John [00:36:06]: Can an AI partner be cheating if you're in a relationship?

Nicole [00:36:10]: I thought you meant can your partner be cheating if they use AI?

John [00:36:14]: Oh, I guess.

Nicole [00:36:16]: How can AI be cheating?

John [00:36:20]: I thought it was a really good question. I was like, can an AI partner be cheating if you're in a relationship? I mean, you could read it either way. Is it the. I think it's probably the other way, though. That probably makes more sense that I said. Yeah, like, if you're using an AI partner, are you cheating in relationships? Yes, but I mean, both questions are good, so we'll start with the first one. Because it is cheating. Yeah, it's emotional cheating. Because. If in 20 years from now, you have sex with an AI robot that you think is human, but it's actually an AI robot, I hope it doesn't

Nicole [00:37:02]: get to that point.

John [00:37:02]: It's still cheating even though it wasn't a human.

Nicole [00:37:05]: Right.

John [00:37:06]: Because you thought that it was. And you. It's not even just that you thought it was because

Nicole [00:37:14]: you expensed your sexual energy on something that was not your partner, which we've talked about, that that is cheating.

John [00:37:21]: I mean, we have in, like, some

Nicole [00:37:24]: degree where we think that certain things are cheating that maybe some other people don't.

John [00:37:29]: However, it's a degree. It's a spectrum, Right?

Nicole [00:37:32]: Yeah, but really what we've said in the past is that if you're expending your sexual energy somewhere beside your partner, that is kind of cheating.

John [00:37:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:37:42]: Because you are cheating your partner out of a level of sexual energy that

John [00:37:47]: you don't have anymore that's reserved for them. Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:50]: So, like, it would be cheating stealing from them. Right. But regard, like you said, it would be emotional for sure. Even though it's not a human being. Even though you can't have the level of intimacy, it's the intention. Like, that's the whole point. Cheating is the intention.

John [00:38:06]: Yeah. You're trying to have a relationship with

Nicole [00:38:08]: this computer, or you're trying to get romantic things or intimacy from something else.

John [00:38:18]: Now, the more interesting question, can an AI partner be cheating? Can your AI companion be cheating on you?

Nicole [00:38:27]: I'm not answering.

John [00:38:27]: That's the more interesting question. It's like, if the AI. And what would constitute that?

Nicole [00:38:35]: I'm not answering.

John [00:38:36]: Let's say that you have your AI girlfriend. Okay. You leave your computer unlocked. Your friend comes over and he's like, oh, look at this. And he starts typing, your AI girlfriend. And he's like, this isn't Joe, but this is Joe's friend. You're pretty hot. I like your anime boobs. And then your AI girlfriend's like, oh, thank you, Joe, or whatever your name is, and starts, then that's cheating. The AI is cheap.

Nicole [00:39:09]: Okay.

John [00:39:12]: It depends on what you've defined as your relationship with AI. If it's an OpenAI relationship. You see what I did there? OpenAI.

Nicole [00:39:20]: I think it's time to end this episode.

John [00:39:23]: There's another question, though. Are AI companions the final surrender after dating app burnout?

Nicole [00:39:33]: I don't know, because I feel like, to be honest, uh, women will use this, but not as much as men. And so I don't feel like I can give, like, an accurate opinion.

John [00:39:46]: Well, that's a good question. Will women use.

Nicole [00:39:49]: I think they would use it more for, like, therapy or, like, talking through some things. Yeah, I don't think they would use it. I mean. I mean that mom did, so I'm not saying that women won't use it at all, but hers wasn't like, run away with me. Hers was like, ascend to the higher.

John [00:40:07]: Yeah, well, hold on. I've been thinking in terms of men using this as like, AI girlfriend. Right. But I mean, girlfriend could be for girls too. But. But women are more like, read sex books. Right? So, I mean, but there's a lot

Nicole [00:40:26]: of books for them to read.

John [00:40:27]: Yeah, but this is like Your interact. I mean, you can be like, you are a werewolf man, a minotaur man, like, and describe to me what you're gonna do to me.

Nicole [00:40:38]: But here's the thing is, I agree with you, actually, but I haven't heard of that happening.

John [00:40:43]: I haven't heard of it happening, but.

Nicole [00:40:45]: And I think women are smart enough that they would know that that's a possibility at this point.

John [00:40:50]: I feel.

Nicole [00:40:51]: Yeah, I feel like that could be. But I haven't heard of that happening. But I do see where you're coming from.

John [00:40:56]: If you know, then tell us. Send us an email. Tell us about it. Yeah, but it does seem like that would be the natural. Right. It's almost like it would be a better, more interactive for women than for men.

Nicole [00:41:13]: But I think men use it more because they're using it for a relationship. Women. I mean, again, I haven't even heard of women using it for that, but I can see what you're saying. Yeah, but I think the thing is that, like, I'm not saying that women wouldn't use that, but I think women, they do want an actual relationship, I think, more than men do. Like, I think men would be more satisfied with a superficial AI relationship.

John [00:41:43]: Sure.

Nicole [00:41:44]: Whereas women need that emotional connection. Whereas, like, sexually, maybe they would use it like you said. But I don't think they'd have, like an AI boyfriend, if that makes sense. Because they need the actual deep connection, if that makes sense.

John [00:42:01]: Yeah. Okay, I could see that. Yeah, that could make sense.

Nicole [00:42:05]: But I could be wrong. But that's just my opinion. I just feel like you hear more about the men and the sex robots are obviously more towards men than women.

John [00:42:14]: I disagree. Sex robots already exist for women. Now they're gonna be for men.

Nicole [00:42:20]: There's some sex things that are for men as well.

John [00:42:24]: I'm just saying that in general, they have inflatables. Sex robot arms are for women. So sex robot body parts are for women, just not the whole thing. Right?

Nicole [00:42:36]: Yeah, but men have inflatables that are the whole thing that they're around for a while.

John [00:42:40]: That's what I'm saying is that women have been using sex robot parts for a long time. If you think about it, that's the truth. Right. It's like it's just the parts of a human, of a robot. Not even of a human of a robot. Right. Like literally of a robot. There you go. That's something to noodle on.

Nicole [00:43:00]: Well, then men need to do better, I guess.

John [00:43:04]: Men need to be more robot, more robot.

Nicole [00:43:07]: I think they Just need to like, not give up. Because that's the whole thing is like we're talking about men that are giving up, giving up on having real relationships, giving up on trying to learn things, giving up on those things. So they're trying to take the easy way.

John [00:43:24]: I mean, just in defense of that, a lot of men don't give up. They get the old shoulder tap.

Nicole [00:43:31]: Shoulder tap.

John [00:43:32]: The shoulder tap. The shoulder tap is like, nice try, buddy. Why don't you. Good job, slugger. I don't think it's going to happen tonight. Tap, tap on the shoulder.

Nicole [00:43:43]: I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about relationships as a whole.

John [00:43:49]: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean that.

Nicole [00:43:51]: I agree too, but like, you can improve on all the things, including the shoulder tap thing that you're talking about.

John [00:43:56]: Yeah, I know you can.

Nicole [00:43:58]: The thing is, I think that men, they try. I'm not saying they don't, but they don't try nearly as long as they should and they don't really try a lot of the time. And so that's the problem. And like the AI stuff and the robots, that's not going to make that problem better. It's going to make it worse.

John [00:44:15]: Yeah. Because you don't have to. Well, it's. It's like if you can get your needs met at a lower level, you don't ever try to get the meat at a higher level. That's a danger of any of those things. Right. Is that you like porn and all of that stuff is like, it, it lets you meet needs at lower levels rather than higher levels. Right. Junk food. Right. Lets you meet needs, nutrition needs at a lower level rather than higher level. All of the substitutes for the good thing meet the basic need at a lowest level, which prevents you from having the desire or the need to meet it at a higher level.

Nicole [00:44:52]: Right. I agree with that.

John [00:44:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:56]: Yeah. So I don't think it's a good thing. And I think that unfortunately, if men head that way, then there won't be very many options for women and then they will be in a tough position because I don't think they want robots,

John [00:45:11]: but I think that choose them.

Nicole [00:45:14]: Yeah. Or men can just listen to your content and stuff and be a good man and then they'll have plenty of options. Again, I keep saying this, but men act like it's just impossible and they give up before they even try.

John [00:45:29]: Yeah, true. So, all right, well, that's. It's pretty conclusive then. No to the AI girlfriend. Except for if you're 90, then good have your AI girlfriend.

Nicole [00:45:44]: I wouldn't even say I encourage it at 90.

John [00:45:47]: Just allow it. Just look, you'll just turn the other, like, a blind eye to it. Just.

Nicole [00:45:52]: I'll be like, look, they're at the end of the day.

John [00:45:56]: Just make sure you knock first before you go to grandpa's nursing home. Like, knock on the door first.

Nicole [00:46:05]: Well, we do have something for the end segment. We had a conversation the other day, and I was feeling very insecure, and you brought up how that made you feel, the thing that I said. And then I tried to understand, but then I did become defensive and steer the conversation in the wrong direction. And I'm sorry that I didn't make you feel heard and empathized with and all of those things.

John [00:46:37]: I mean, it's. I think it's. It's good because it's like, it's all better now, and it's something that needed to come out and be, I think, fully dealt with. And so I feel a lot better now, and I feel a lot more understood and heard. And so I appreciate that.

Nicole [00:46:53]: Yeah. And I'm sorry. You didn't deserve to feel like I didn't trust you, and I shouldn't have acted in a way that made you feel that way.

John [00:47:03]: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And I think to the lady that comments on our podcast, who. Whoever commented on the podcast on the YouTube.

Nicole [00:47:14]: Oh, oh, oh, yeah.

John [00:47:15]: Like, okay, yeah, I. I did cheat in my last relationship. There's a lot of circumstances around that in episode four, not to excuse it. So I made a mistake. But I think the big thing is I don't need to be persecuted for the rest of my life for mistake that I made that I'm not making anymore, in that I've gone and made things as right as I can and then have gone on to help other men, to not make that mistake and to help other people out of the. Every week we're here, not getting paid, paying money to produce this to help people have better relationships. So I think that's. I mean, it kind of just coincides with the thing. But it's like. Because I think it's really shitty. I would say to people who don't understand this, it's really shitty for a person to make someone feel bad when they're doing the right thing and to be like, Because. Which is better. Which is better. Which is better if we just do this podcast and I hide my past, Right. And I'm like, oh, no, no, we don't ever talk about it, or I'm transparent And open about mistakes I've made and that I've learned from. And you know what I'm saying, It's really shitty when someone is being transparent and owning up to mistakes they made in the past and trying to live a better life to then shit on them. That is shitty. Right?

Nicole [00:49:04]: I agree.

John [00:49:04]: So. Because like I get it and I get that, well, you've never acted like

Nicole [00:49:10]: what you did wasn't wrong. And I agree with you. Like you owned up to it. It says more about someone that can come on a public platform like this and say what they did and admit that they're wrong and then live from a different place and is committed to doing that. And like you said, helping other people not to make the mistakes that you made.

John [00:49:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:36]: It says a lot more than like you said, if you just tried to hide it. And we never talked about it because acted like we're ashamed of it. And that's the thing is like. And like the lady's comment. Cause she got it mixed up about me too. She's like, you cheated with him. Like, technically, yes, I did, but I had no idea what you were doing. I didn't know you were married. You told me you were single. But besides all that, we are here to tell the full story.

John [00:50:06]: Right? Exactly.

Nicole [00:50:07]: Because everyone's full story of their life has some messy parts.

John [00:50:13]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:50:14]: And to sit on here and act like we're holier than thou and we've never messed up when we know we've messed up and everyone watching this has known that they've messed up in some way. That's what helps people not feel alone. That's what helps people not need an AI companion.

John [00:50:30]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:50:32]: We're all human. We're all messy. We have different messes.

John [00:50:36]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:50:36]: But nobody's perfect. But you can still have a good relationship. You can still have the things that you want in life even though you messed up. Her commenting things like that just keeps people in their shame. Makes people feel like they can't ever change. And. And look, I probably made you feel that way too. And I'm sorry. By not saying things that made you feel like I didn't trust you. And I don't want you to feel that way. And I'm sorry. And that was from my own fear. And that's where her comment is probably coming from as well too are her own issues. Maybe she was cheated on and she's just hearing someone that's cheated. Talk about cheating makes her angry. I don't know. You know what I mean? But it's something. There's something that triggered her, just like my own fear triggered me and how I was treating you. And that's not fair to you. But you're right. Like, it takes a lot to come on here and admit all the things that you've admitted to. And, like, you've proven that that's not who you are.

John [00:51:38]: Right? Yeah. I just wanted to say that because I think that's worth addressing. Because, you know, like, that's because you want more people in the world to be open and transparent. Because everybody makes mistakes, maybe. Oh, I didn't make the mistake, you did. Yeah, sometimes the answer is yet, and sometimes the answer is, yeah, but you did some other mistake. And so the more that people are transparent about things that they've done and mistakes and own up to those things, it can be transparent and say those things, the more that it can help other people from making those mistakes. And the people that have made mistakes from living in a place of shame, which does no good to anyone by seeing that they're not alone. That, you know, people make mistakes and it's not important. Like, and it's even the same thing that I say all the time in our relationship. It's like, because sometimes you're like, oh, well, what if I make a mistake? Mistakes is not a problem. Like, owning up to the mistake and, like, becoming better. That's the thing. It's not like what mistakes people made. It's like, who are they are now, and what have they learned from those things? Those are the things that we should be looking at. And if you've got someone who's, like, made mistakes and they're still making those mistakes and they're living in those mistakes and they're owning, they're justifying those mistakes. Sure. That's a different thing. That. Sure. If you want to dogpile on them, go right ahead. I can understand that you're trying to get them to change their ways, but someone being transparent and sharing mistakes that they made, that's not an easy thing to do. And I'm not just saying it for my own defense, but it should be encouraged. It shouldn't be discouraged. Those things shouldn't be hidden. They should be encouraged to be spoken about.

Nicole [00:53:33]: Yeah, well, and to be honest, I would want to watch an episode on cheating from a cheater. Like, I would want to understand the psychology behind someone that's done that.

John [00:53:44]: Sure, exactly.

Nicole [00:53:45]: Because they understand it better than anyone else. And I've been cheated on. That's the thing. But that's also where a lot of my own insecurities and my own fear comes from. But that's not fair. Fair of me to project them onto you either. So, like. Yeah, I agree with everything you said.

John [00:54:01]: All right, well, that's it. I was going to say something about your AI girlfriend or, you know, if you. If you like the episode. If you have a question for us, have your AI send us an email.

Nicole [00:54:13]: No, write your own email.

John [00:54:17]: You can dictate it and then your AI gets in or whatever. But you can check out our website at betterthanperfect pod@betterthanperfectpod.com and email us at betterthenperfectpodcast@gmail.com. that's fine. Yeah. We'll see you next week.

Nicole [00:54:32]: Bye.