John [00:00:00]: I've gone up to girls in nightclubs before, and I've just. Just kissed them without saying a word, calibrated, knowing that, like, okay, as I'm coming up.

Nicole [00:00:07]: Kisses someone. No.

John [00:00:09]: You can see in less than one second when you look into a girl's eyes whether you can go.

Nicole [00:00:14]: I think even on our first date, if you just straight up kissed me, I'd be like, you held my hand, and I was like, what are you doing, you weirdo?

John [00:00:22]: But I just did it. Like, it was natural.

Nicole [00:00:23]: Like, that's fine. I'm glad you didn't just straight up kiss me. Like, hey, Nicole planted one on me. I would have been like, beyond the

John [00:00:30]: perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect. We stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:55]: That's right.

John [00:00:55]: And today our topic is women approaching men. So there was a question of whether or not to men. The question was posed, if women approach you, do they have a better chance of getting with you?

Nicole [00:01:10]: I can answer this as a woman who has approached men before.

John [00:01:13]: Okay, what is that?

Nicole [00:01:14]: It does not work out most of the time.

John [00:01:18]: Really?

Nicole [00:01:19]: Yeah.

John [00:01:20]: See? Oh, yeah, I know. You're right.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Yeah.

John [00:01:23]: Yeah. I've had a lot of women that approach me that I. That. That I would have approached even that I then ran away from.

Nicole [00:01:32]: Right.

John [00:01:32]: It's like an instinctual thing. I was like, this is weird.

Nicole [00:01:36]: They don't want it to be easy. But it's funny, because men today do want everything to be easier. They do want to be passenger princess men.

John [00:01:44]: Right.

Nicole [00:01:44]: So I'm sure if you ask those men, they would say yes. But as a woman who's done it, Grant, I've only done it, like, maybe three times in the. When I was single.

John [00:01:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:56]: And it's never worked out. Wait, one time it worked out.

John [00:01:59]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:01]: That's the only time. But most of the time, it's not gonna work. And I think it's because men are the pursuers. Whether they complain about it or not, they're the pursuers. I mean, you even said you had women come up to you that you would have pursued, but you didn't. And why is that?

John [00:02:20]: Cause they scared me with their assertiveness. Yeah. I mean, I remember one time I was in a nightclub, and this girl. I mean, I did end up. I mean, so. But.

Nicole [00:02:32]: So what is it, John?

John [00:02:34]: Okay, but in my mind, I was Thinking I'm like, you're messing me up because I'm here to pick up on girls. And now you're like hanging around me this whole time and hanging on me, just assuming I'm going home with you.

Nicole [00:02:49]: Cuz it's a game.

John [00:02:50]: Which I, which I, which I did. But I didn't like, I like that. I was, I was like, you know, I was like, you're messing up my, my chances, my odds. Like I'm like, I'm here, you know, so.

Nicole [00:03:03]: But the funny thing is the one person that it did work when I approached him.

John [00:03:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:08]: Like we, I didn't go home with him and we dated like kind of long distance for a bit of a time.

John [00:03:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:16]: So it's like yours is that you instantly went home with her. But mine was like more of a relate. But I was a relationship type of person.

John [00:03:27]: But exactly. My psychology was like, john, take the easy win. Sure. Okay. Like just. But I still. It took me a while to be

Nicole [00:03:33]: like, but you thought it was a game. That's why you didn't want the easy one. You're like, I want the challenge.

John [00:03:37]: Exactly. But, but I was like, but I was like, take that. But, but she would have, there would have been a higher attraction level if I didn't feel like I was taking the easy win.

Nicole [00:03:46]: Right. So she just came to you and that was easy. And I do think there is an element to that.

John [00:03:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:51]: Like whether you enjoy dating and enjoy going out and talking to women and picking up women or going on dates with women, I think you will view it that way if you do enjoy the dating process.

John [00:04:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:03]: But I think even men who complain and they're like, I don't get dates, if they had women coming to them, they would still find some issue with a woman.

John [00:04:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:14]: That's approaching.

John [00:04:15]: They don't, they don't realize even when I was in college, when I was in college, there was this new girl that, that moved into the dorm, Right.

Nicole [00:04:21]: And she scared you. Do you have a lot of stories of women, everyone coming after you and scaring you?

John [00:04:26]: Everyone, everyone in the dorm, including myself, was like, oh, she's hot. Like the new girl in the dorm. Like, damn. Like, like who? And I started getting these messages on my whiteboard that was like, you're hot. Or like. And it's like, okay, where is this coming from? And then someone saw her right on the. And then like. And then one day when my roommate was gone at his girlfriend's house, right in my dorm room, she comes knocking on my door. And she's like, can I stay in your room? Like, my. My. I'm. I'm scared to be alone or whatever it was because her roommate was gone or something. And I was like, I guess so. And then, like. And then, like, I'm laying on the couch. Like, there's, like, another vet. Or I give her the bed. I'm laying on the couch or whatever. And then she's like. She, like, comes over and lays on top of me, and I'm like, shit, how do I get out of this situation? And I got out of the situation.

Nicole [00:05:31]: Any guy listening to this is gonna be so upset with you. You're like, this guy's complaining about this.

John [00:05:36]: But. But, like. But, like.

Nicole [00:05:38]: No, it's important.

John [00:05:38]: No, no, but I'm saying this for a reason. Because psychologically, something switched in my head because she was pursuing me so hard and being so accessible and so easy that I didn't sleep with her. I didn't. Like, I kicked her out.

Nicole [00:05:52]: I think I was like, you're like, I'm a gentleman. Get out of here.

John [00:05:58]: I mean, at that time, I was more of, like, you know, like. Like that anyway, but. But still, like, I was. I was scared. I was scared.

Nicole [00:06:07]: So scared. Because she pursued you, so.

John [00:06:09]: Because, yeah, I, Like, I lost all attraction for her, Right. Like, all of a sudden, she didn't look attractive to me anymore.

Nicole [00:06:15]: Yeah. I mean, I think we need to dive into that, right, Because. And, like, you obviously have the insight to kind of talk about this more and. Because that's the conundrum here, right? Like, men complain that they have to approach women. They complain that, oh, I'm gonna get rejected. They complain about everything under the sun about those sort of things. But the moment a woman approaches them, she could be the hottest woman in the whole dorm or whatever, or in the whole bar, in the whole club. And there's still something about that that probably isn't gonna work out for her.

John [00:06:51]: Yeah. Well, I mean, I even remember, like, when I. When I would run, like, with my shirt off and running, like, some women, sometimes they like to be having a party or something, you know, at the rental places, and they'd be, like, trying to stop me or touch me, and I'd be like, okay, they're trying to touch me. Yeah. Or they would actually go and touch me, like, grab my chest or something, and I would. Like. I would not like that, because I don't. I'm trying to run, and it's just too desperate. Yeah. It's just like. Like those. Like, if I Was running by and I saw those women. I probably say something to them. Right. But that they're like, hollering at me and trying to, like, get my attention and are touching me. Like, I'm like, trying to get out of there. Like, I'm not stopping to talk. I'm like, okay, I gotta go. Right. Whereas there have been plenty of times where I would have stopped somewhere and talked to some girl that I. That I found attractive. So. Yeah. So I guess it is a little bit. Even more than I. Than I thought. Like, when we were first going to talk about this topic, I was like, yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's not that it's complicated, but it is, like, because I'll tell

Nicole [00:07:59]: you why, as a woman, I approached on those times.

John [00:08:03]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:04]: So, one, I mean, I. I had girl game to some extent, but maybe you could argue that I didn't because I went up to men. But I would say that I did, and that's why I did, because I wasn't afraid to. Second, it would be. I feel like as a woman in my shoes, it's like, okay, I've been at this bar for a while or at this club for a while.

John [00:08:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:28]: And I'm like, trying to make eye contact with this guy. He hasn't either seen me or whatever. Maybe he's scared. Maybe I should go over there. I don't want to miss out on this opportunity.

John [00:08:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:39]: So I have to take the shot then.

John [00:08:41]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:42]: Because he doesn't seem like he's doing it, so let me do it. And I'm not afraid to do it.

John [00:08:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:47]: And like, even when they would be like, whatever, I don't know, like, they would just ignore me or be like, thanks, hey, whatever.

John [00:08:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:55]: I'd be like, okay, whatever, Moving on with my life. But at least, like, I knew that I had given it the opportunity.

John [00:09:02]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:04]: Because I had noticed them and wanted the opportunity at least.

John [00:09:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:08]: Which maybe guys can even learn from what I just said, Especially if they're afraid of rejection, is because, like, at least you.

John [00:09:16]: You took the opportunity.

Nicole [00:09:17]: Right? Exactly.

John [00:09:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:18]: And it doesn't matter.

John [00:09:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:20]: Which way it goes. Like, obviously if you're putting yourself out there and you're going up to somebody, you want them to say yes, but either way it doesn't matter. At least you knew that you had a shot. Whether you made the shot or you missed the shot.

John [00:09:33]: For sure.

Nicole [00:09:34]: But. But I don't think it's a good idea even though I did it.

John [00:09:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:39]: Granted, again, if you are A woman and you're in a situation and you don't want to miss the opportunity, sure, shoot your shot. You probably will fail, obviously, based on all the things we're talking about. Because even if a guy's interested in you, the second you show him you're interested in him without him having to do anything, he's probably gonna be like, e get the ick. Yeah, the guy ick.

John [00:10:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:01]: And I get that because the gift

John [00:10:04]: you're get the gig instead of the dick.

Nicole [00:10:06]: Oh, my gosh. But I mean, it makes sense when you think about it, because guys do have to pursue. But the confusing thing is, is that men act like they don't want to pursue women anymore, right? So women are probably like, oh, well, then I'll go up to a guy. Or I have to go up to a guy now. But the thing that guys don't realize and what you're helping uncover right here right now first ever heard, I haven't heard of. People talk about this from a guy's perspective. A guy is not even going to like you as much if you pursue him than if he pursued you, right?

John [00:10:40]: And I'm not saying that it won't ever work, right? And I'm not saying also, like, if you're approaching guys that are kind of loser guys, let's say that don't have very much success with women, you're probably gonna have. And you're an attractive woman, you're probably gonna have a high success with those guys, right?

Nicole [00:10:56]: Are you saying the one gu said yes was a loser guy?

John [00:11:01]: I'm not saying. I'm not saying that necessarily, but I'm just saying that, like, you, You. It has a much higher probability. But what's better for women to do than approaching guys is making themselves appear accessible, approachable, right? Like doing things like. Well, like you said, like making eye contact with the guy, right? Like winking, even. Like, that's fine. Or even. I've had women do this like this to me, and I'm like, okay, that's a very easy image.

Nicole [00:11:35]: That's not too much.

John [00:11:36]: It's borderline. It's not too much because she's like,

Nicole [00:11:39]: she didn't come up to you, right?

John [00:11:41]: She's, like, flirting me with her eyes first and then whatever. And then she's like, come here. That's fine. It's not as big, but you can do stuff like that. I mean, that's a little bit more than what you probably should do, honestly, in most cases. But you can get in proximity. I mean, as a Guy. I mean, you should know that if a woman sits down next to you at the bar, she purposely chose to sit next to you at the bar. It wasn't a coincidence. It wasn't an accident like proximity or. Then you go somewhere else and she happens to be somewhere near you. It's not a coincidence. That's how women position themselves. So. But those are signals to a guy that he can pick up on that. Is this who I can approach his. Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:29]: Yeah.

John [00:12:30]: I can approach this woman.

Nicole [00:12:31]: Hot.

John [00:12:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:33]: The real question is, though, if I approached you, would we be married right now?

John [00:12:37]: We would. Yes. Yes. I was like, that's the hottest woman I've ever.

Nicole [00:12:41]: Does that make you a loser guy then, though?

John [00:12:43]: It might make me a loser guy, but I'll be your loser guy.

Nicole [00:12:48]: No, I'm just kidding.

John [00:12:49]: But no, I would still. But.

Nicole [00:12:51]: But it is complicated because women are being fed from guys.

John [00:12:55]: Sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:56]: Like that. They want their life easier.

John [00:12:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:59]: But then come to find out they really don't attract. They're not attracted to women.

John [00:13:04]: Yeah. But make it easy for a guy to approach you if you want to be approached by a guy. Right.

Nicole [00:13:10]: I don't feel like women don't do that, though.

John [00:13:12]: Or you can even do things like drop your purse.

Nicole [00:13:16]: I am not dropping my purse on the dirty ass or whatever.

John [00:13:19]: Or drop something there, like whatever your lipstick or something, or.

Nicole [00:13:23]: I don't know, for it to get trampled on by everyone.

John [00:13:26]: It could be. It doesn't have to be a bar. It could be like at a restaurant or some. Or a grocery store, whatever.

Nicole [00:13:32]: I think you're. You're saying earlier about, like standing or sitting next to them or something like that is better.

John [00:13:37]: Or you can ask him for. You can be like, can you hang up my coat? Or could you grab that for me? Could you like, something that creates an interaction. Right. I mean, you can even say, like, oh, I like your shirt, and then walk away. And then a guy's gonna get the signal. Like, hey, oh, wait a minute, hold on again. Those are a little bit more. Like, there's a range, a spectrum of things to do. Right. But like, if you're getting into the desperate situation where you're like, I need to make something happen as a woman, then you start to get a little bit more to that level.

Nicole [00:14:11]: Subtle.

John [00:14:11]: Yeah. Like, yeah, but. But you should start off being as subtle as possible. Right. Also, you want to attract the right kind of guy. Right. If you're staring at a guy and making eye contact with him and he's too afraid to come and talk to you after that. You probably are not going to be attracted to that guy when he does talk to you anyway, so.

Nicole [00:14:28]: That's very true. Like, one time I was out with some of my girlfriends, and this guy was, like, hanging around. Granted, it was like, maybe me and two other girls, so it wasn't like a huge group, but he kept hanging around for, like, 30 minutes. And one of my friends was like, just talk to him. And I'm like, no, he's right there. He can talk to me. Yeah, you know, and it was unattractive that I'm like, do you like, she's over here. Like, go, just go talk to him. I'm like, are you doing this? So I go talk to you, but you're also standing around here for 30 minutes, so I'm not going to go talk to you.

John [00:15:04]: That's. That's the guys that Manny talking about where they're still downtown every. And that's what they do every night.

Nicole [00:15:12]: He's an attractive guy. Because even my friend that was like, go talk to him. She was like, if you don't talk to him, I'm going to talk to him. I was like, go talk to him then, because I'm not doing it. So it's not like he wasn't even an attractive person, but it's like, sometimes you make things even worse. And then you do put women in a situation where you're like, are you wanting me to come to you? But then, like, you've already spent 30 minutes just hanging around here, so why don't you just come talk to me?

John [00:15:36]: We call those guys Chod crystals.

Nicole [00:15:38]: They like, why?

John [00:15:40]: Because they're, like, usually all grouped together, and they're usually just standing around.

Nicole [00:15:45]: No, it was like two. Two guys.

John [00:15:47]: Or they'll, like, come to a. They'll. There'll be a group of women, and they'll, like. The chode crystal will move to this group of women, and, like, they'll just be standing there waiting for something to magically happen. Right. This is what. What. When you're talking about when. When Manny. You know, like, the guys that I went out with them before, too, and. And they would just. We would go to a nightclub, and they would just stand there. They would stand next to women, and they would just stand there, and they were just waiting for something to happen. And, like, sometimes the woman bumps into them. They're like, oh, excuse me.

Nicole [00:16:17]: And that's it.

John [00:16:18]: By the way, what's your name? And then she's like, shh,

Nicole [00:16:23]: don't Talk to me.

John [00:16:24]: Yeah. Or whatever. But every once in a while. So the reason why they do it is because every once in a while, some woman will be drunk enough to start talking to them. Like, every, like, maybe one out of 50 nights. And then they're like, yeah, this works.

Nicole [00:16:37]: I'm a woman that would go up to guys.

John [00:16:39]: Sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:41]: Not all the time, but again, I guess it goes both ways. Because if you're doing this, like, subtle, weird thing, it's creepy. You're better off just being like, hey, what's your name? Than hanging around orbiting for 30 minutes.

John [00:16:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:56]: And then now I'm like, what? What are you doing? Like, obviously you're doing something.

John [00:17:01]: I've told you what the definition of like, what makes something creepy is right before. Have we talked about this on the podcast?

Nicole [00:17:06]: I feel like maybe, but I forgot.

John [00:17:09]: Cause guys are like, oh, it's only, like, if you go and talk to a girl, it's creepy if you're ugly and if you're hot. It's not creepy. No, that's not true. What's creepy is when you do something that insulates you from rejection.

Nicole [00:17:27]: True.

John [00:17:28]: That's always creepy. Right. What's not creepy? What's hot is when you take bold action.

Nicole [00:17:35]: Put yourself out there.

John [00:17:35]: Right?

Nicole [00:17:36]: Yeah.

John [00:17:36]: So if you, as a guy, stare at a woman from across the room and try to make eye contact with her. Creepy. That's creepy. If a woman does it, it's not creepy. If a man does it, it's creepy. Why? Because the reason why you're trying to make eye contact with her from across the room is because you're insulating yourself from rejection. You're trying to see if she likes you first and then go and talk to her.

Nicole [00:17:56]: Right?

John [00:17:57]: Right. Okay. Now if you just enter a room and you see a girl that you like and you just immediately make a beeline for her and just go up to her and just start talking to her. That's hot. That's gonna be. That doesn't mean that you're gonna hit a 100% batting rate like that. A woman might, you know, but you're gonna have a lot better chance. And she's not gonna think you're creepy. Even if you're ugly, she's not gonna think you're creepy.

Nicole [00:18:20]: No.

John [00:18:20]: Right. Especially if you. You aren't doing it in an awkward way. If you're just in a confident way, just talking to her. Right. Like, she's not going to call the police on you and be like, oh, this guy's harassing me. Right. Like that's. It's not going to happen. Right? So the guy's like, oh, you're going to get me toed. You're going to get hurt. Like, she's going to call sexual harassment. You can't. No, no, that's like, only if you're being creepy. If you follow a girl around a

Nicole [00:18:41]: nightclub all night, right, and accidentally bump into her, that's creepy, right?

John [00:18:46]: You're sitting on a bus with a girl and you, like, in your hands, you, like, you get your shoulder to, like, touch her as if she doesn't notice.

Nicole [00:18:56]: Right?

John [00:18:56]: Right. Creepy as fuck, right?

Nicole [00:18:59]: That's true.

John [00:18:59]: Right? You. You like.

Nicole [00:19:00]: But also, don't just grab her shoulder either. Or, like, put your arm on her shoulder.

John [00:19:04]: No, but like, you. If you. But if you.

Nicole [00:19:07]: But just talk to her. Yeah, yeah, just talk to her.

John [00:19:09]: Yeah. Or even if you're on a date with the girl, right? If you're like. If you're. You're sitting next to her and you're like, sort of like, touch her knee a little bit. Put your hand on her knee. That's creepy. She's like, what the fuck is this guy doing under the table? Right? But if you just put your hand on her knee while you're talking to her, take it off, you're laughing. You put your arm around her or whatever. Or you say, hey, let me see your hand for a second. Now you're cool.

Nicole [00:19:36]: Here's something else, though. You can only touch someone like that on a date.

John [00:19:41]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:19:42]: It's consensual. Like, and I don't mean consensual in the, like, can I touch your leg? I mean consensual in. If you're going on a date, there's mutual interest. You do not touch a woman sitting on a bus or sitting next to you.

John [00:19:54]: No, no, no, no, no.

Nicole [00:19:55]: Or at the bar, unless you have

John [00:19:57]: some kind of signal. I've gotten up to girls in nightclubs before and I've just. Just kissed them without saying a word. But. But calibrated, knowing that, like. Okay, as I'm coming up, don't just kiss to someone. You just know that you can do it.

Nicole [00:20:13]: No, I'm just saying.

John [00:20:16]: Look, I'm just saying. But, but you have to know, like, you. But you're taking a bold action that you. That, like, that you're. That's calibrated. That's the difference between.

Nicole [00:20:26]: How did you calibrate just walking up to someone and kissing them.

John [00:20:32]: You just feel it. You're just like, I know, John. I Can pull this off.

Nicole [00:20:36]: That's the boldness of actions.

John [00:20:38]: You can see in 2, in. In 1, less than 1 second. When you look into a girl's eyes, whether you can go.

Nicole [00:20:46]: I think even on our first date, if you just straight up kissed me, I'd be like, what the fuck? You held my hand and I was like, what are you doing, you weirdo?

John [00:20:55]: But I just did it. Like it was natural. Like it was.

Nicole [00:20:58]: That's fine. I'm glad you didn't just straight up kiss me. Like, hey, Nicole planted one on me. I would have been like, I mean, I'm not the Nicole. Oh, I gotta go.

John [00:21:07]: I mean, I did when we were at the. When we were at the bar, right? When you. And before we got into the bar, you're like, I don't do pda. You told me that, but I did it anyway.

Nicole [00:21:17]: You. We had talks. We were on a date.

John [00:21:19]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:21:20]: And there were espresso martinis.

John [00:21:22]: Right, of course.

Nicole [00:21:22]: But if we were just in a club or a bar and you come walk over to me and you just kiss me. No, no, I would have headbutted you, I think.

John [00:21:30]: And that would have been the start of our relationship. Taking a picture as the ambulance takes me.

Nicole [00:21:37]: Yeah, exactly. Like this crazy ass guy just kissed. Come up to the bar and kissed me.

John [00:21:44]: Yeah, but, but, no but, but that's. But that's the. The difference between creepy and no.

Nicole [00:21:50]: That is good to know. And I hope that men realize that. But yeah. Don't touch a woman unless you're on a date. Don't touch her.

John [00:21:56]: Yeah, yeah. You need to know what you're talking to her.

Nicole [00:21:58]: Yeah, you have to feel.

John [00:21:59]: But.

Nicole [00:22:00]: And definitely don't go up to someone and kiss them. That is like expert level. Like, I. Only very few people can do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Like, I'm even surprised you could do that. Like, I know that you have a lot of game. I understand that. But that's wild.

John [00:22:15]: But when you're really. But when you're going out all the time and picking up girls, like, you just. You. You have more of a intuition.

Nicole [00:22:25]: We, we understand that, however, but like

John [00:22:28]: I'm saying is like, I'm just saying when you're doing it a lot, then you have an intuition.

Nicole [00:22:32]: I know, but I don't think most people should be doing that.

John [00:22:35]: No, no, I don't recommend that. Like, like, you know, if you can or not. You, you. If you're questioning whether you can, then don't do it.

Nicole [00:22:41]: That also gives Boy behavior, not husband behavior.

John [00:22:44]: Yeah, that's true. That's not a good.

Nicole [00:22:45]: So it's not the shy away from the kissing. Just go talk.

John [00:22:48]: But the point is. The point is not to be like, can you kiss a girl? The point is the bold action. That's what I'm trying to make the point of. Right. I'm not.

Nicole [00:22:55]: You definitely made the point with that,

John [00:22:58]: but it's because the reason why I made the point with that particular thing is because you would think there's no way you could get away with that, but because it's so bold, it comes across as not creepy. Again. Right. Calibration. Right. Situation. Yeah. Do this at your own risk. There is a But that's the whole thing is when you do a bold action, you're taking a big risk.

Nicole [00:23:20]: Right.

John [00:23:20]: When you do a covert action where you're trying to insulate yourself from risk, there's no risk involved. That's why it's like, guys would prefer dating apps. Well, okay, yeah. Dating app is literally zero risk for you as a guy for facing rejection. So you better be fucking hot on the dating app, because you don't. The boldness aspect is taken away. Right. Again, if you approach a woman at a nightclub, there's some level of boldness. Right. Like, it's good, but you push her

Nicole [00:23:49]: at the grocery store. Extra bold.

John [00:23:51]: Exactly. Just on the street, just. She's in a group of her friends and you go and talk to her, right? She's talking to a bunch of guys and talk to her.

Nicole [00:23:58]: You go in the parking lot and ask her if you can buy her outfit bold.

John [00:24:05]: Now, is that bold or creepy, though? In that situation, I feel like that

Nicole [00:24:08]: was creepy and bold, because why? And two, I mean, bold.

John [00:24:15]: Go up to her in the parking lot and, like, spit some game and be like. To have some kind of crazy story

Nicole [00:24:21]: about kind of a blended. I'm like, is my outfit ugly? Like, I'm just in workout clothes.

John [00:24:27]: Have some kind of, like, real, like, something behind that so that it comes across as bold.

Nicole [00:24:32]: Not glad he didn't just come up and kiss me.

John [00:24:34]: Yeah, but. But I'm sure when that guy came up to you, Right. Did he come up in a very sheepish way, or was he, like, just super cocky and, like, I'm gonna buy you an outfit.

Nicole [00:24:45]: I mean, he was kind of confident, but I could tell he was still a little nervous. It did remind me, and I told you this when I told you about it, it did remind me of, like, some guy on admission that his dating coach gave him oh, like, okay. It was just. It could have been so random.

John [00:25:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:04]: That I was like. I could see John telling some guy being like, go up to a random woman in a parking lot and say, hey, I want to buy you an outfit.

John [00:25:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:13]: Because that's kind of how it felt. But he was like far away from me, but still kind of like, you know, I don't. He seemed confident. Ish. When he said it. But he was also like 20 or something. So I was like, yeah, it was

John [00:25:26]: probably someone giving him a send him on admissions.

Nicole [00:25:31]: That's what it seemed like.

John [00:25:32]: Yeah, it could be. It could be. But you know, but. But, you know, it doesn't. The opposite applies to women in the sense that women should not be bold in terms of approaching us. Take it from me, they should actually do the more conservative.

Nicole [00:25:47]: That's true. They should do. What did you call it? Chode crystal. They should be the chode crystals. Women should be the chode crystals.

John [00:25:59]: Yeah, in a way, I guess. But. But women usually are anyway, like, because one of the difficulties in approaching women is not to get too.

Nicole [00:26:08]: Should we make T shirts that say, like, chode Crystal, I'm the Chode Crystal, I'm the Chodin.

John [00:26:16]: One is that most women that you'll find in a place like a bar or club will be in a circle of women.

Nicole [00:26:26]: That's true.

John [00:26:27]: So you can't just go and approach one woman. You have to go.

Nicole [00:26:30]: Yeah, you can.

John [00:26:31]: No, what I'm saying is you have to go into the. The group.

Nicole [00:26:35]: You have to penetrate the circle.

John [00:26:36]: Exactly. And then.

Nicole [00:26:37]: Yeah, and then you have to make friends with the friends and then choose your target.

John [00:26:42]: But. But it's a. If you see one woman standing by herself, it's much easier to go up to that one woman and embarrass yourself. Right. And be like, oh, hey.

Nicole [00:26:53]: So you're telling women to ditch their friends to be more accessible. Yes.

John [00:26:57]: That's actually. I wasn't even thinking that, but that's actually true. That's.

Nicole [00:26:59]: You can't ditch your friends, but you can maybe be like, I'm going to the bar.

John [00:27:02]: Exactly. If you make yourself and go stand next to them. Because it takes a bit more confidence for a guy to go into a group of women and be like, sharks. Exactly.

Nicole [00:27:12]: Pool of sharks. No, Britney, he's ugly. And then Britney's gonna be like, I think he's kind of cute. And then it's just gonna. It has to be a debate.

John [00:27:20]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:27:20]: True.

John [00:27:21]: Or a lot of times women are in a mixed group of men and women and then, like, only the guy that has the utmost confidence is going to go up and approach you there.

Nicole [00:27:29]: Men do say some weird stuff sometimes when they come up to you.

John [00:27:34]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:36]: Like, I had one guy, one time, he pulled up my profile on a dating app and said, is this you? And it was me.

John [00:27:45]: Wait a minute. So he was like, random guy swiping, like. So the question is, like, was he swiping on the dating app there at the. The venue, and then found you, or did he, like, at some point screenshot your profile, come to the venue, and then show it to you?

Nicole [00:28:05]: I don't know. Like, or maybe we matched and I didn't even realize. Yeah, but I was just like, what? I was like, yeah, that's me. Then it's like, what do you say? Yeah, hi. I like. I don't know. Guys just say some weird stuff sometimes. Just say, just be normal. Like, you said, be like, hey, I like your outfit or something. Don't be like, is this you? Like, yeah.

John [00:28:31]: The bet. The best thing for guys is just to say, hey, I just saw you from over there and I wanted to meet you real quick.

Nicole [00:28:38]: Right?

John [00:28:38]: That's it. You can say something better. You can, but you don't need to. That's just the easy default. You're not gonna go wrong with that. You know what I mean? You can say, nice shoes, want to fucking, but you better have a lot of fucking confidence.

Nicole [00:28:52]: Don't say that. Don't say that. I feel like even if you're an attractive person, you just shot yourself.

John [00:28:59]: I mean, you got to say it in the right tone, in the right way where it's clearly a joke, John, we are. And then you have to immediately apologize afterwards and be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I. I'm such an. I shouldn't have said that.

Nicole [00:29:13]: We're trying to help people get relationships. You need to stay on. On track here, okay? You're on getting people laid, not getting people relationship.

John [00:29:23]: Maybe that's true.

Nicole [00:29:24]: So, yeah, don't say that.

John [00:29:26]: But, yeah, but women shouldn't approach men. But. But it is a good idea to, like, break away from the, you know, and go, like. If you want a guy to approach you, go to the bar by yourself and you will get a guy that will approach you. It will happen. Right, because it's way less intimidating to, you know, for. For a guy.

Nicole [00:29:45]: Yeah, but then it's like the right one that you want to approach you. That's the hard part. Because then.

John [00:29:49]: Then you got the other guy when

Nicole [00:29:50]: you break Away from your shark tank. Now you have a bigger shark tank that you're in.

John [00:29:55]: You're the one. All the guys are like.

Nicole [00:29:56]: And yeah. Now it's like, oh, no, how do I. I gotta look at the one that I want, like, help. Help me. Come get me before the other sharks get me. It's complicated. It is complicated, but that's also too. Why women might be inclined to go up to the guy.

John [00:30:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:14]: But obviously don't do it. It doesn't work.

John [00:30:17]: I've gone up to a girl that was talking to a guy before, and then I just was like, just come with me. Forget about this guy. And then he didn't say anything at all.

Nicole [00:30:26]: He was an asshole back then.

John [00:30:28]: Like. Yeah, but like, if you. If a guy does that and you say nothing to him at all and you just, like, stand there, then, man, you've already lost. Like, it's over.

Nicole [00:30:36]: That's rude, though.

John [00:30:37]: It is kind of rude.

Nicole [00:30:38]: It is rude.

John [00:30:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:40]: Jesus. But let's not. Let's not go back. Let's not go back to asshole John.

John [00:30:46]: Yeah, let's not.

Nicole [00:30:47]: Gentleman John is here.

John [00:30:48]: Exactly. So.

Nicole [00:30:49]: But yeah, no, like, don't do it. Even if guys today are like, women need to approach men and don't do it.

John [00:30:58]: It's not good.

Nicole [00:30:59]: It's just. Guys need a chase, whether they want to admit it or not.

John [00:31:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:03]: They need a challenge. That's also why when you're dating a man and you have girl game, you don't, like we talked about with the green flag thing, you don't lay all your cards out. It's not being manipulative. It's being selective on what you share right away. Because you do have to, like, trickle the guy along a little bit because it's not just instant and he's in love.

John [00:31:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:30]: Even if the. Some guys like to act like, you know, they talk to a girl one time and they're in love.

John [00:31:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:35]: That's not how it works.

John [00:31:37]: No.

Nicole [00:31:37]: And so you have to get him to invest before you can be like, okay, yeah, good, But. And so don't invest in him at the bar, even if you want to shoot your shot because you want to make sure you at least get the opportunity. Look, you can. It's probably not going to work for you. You're better off, like you said, doing the subtle things that we talked about or like going to the bar near him or whatever and making yourself look available in that way or like waving from across the room.

John [00:32:08]: And it's just a role reversal. Right. Because it's the masculine and feminine aspect. Right. It's a dominant position to approach. Right. It's not very feminine. Right. To be feminine.

Nicole [00:32:19]: Yeah, but the men are feminine. So that's also why women are probably like, well, maybe I should approach.

John [00:32:24]: Yeah, but if you do that, you're setting the tone. Yeah, right, exactly. And so now you're gonna be in the masculine position in the relationship and he's gonna be feminine in the relationship. So do you want that? Like, if that's what you want.

Nicole [00:32:35]: Women, if you don't want more princess men, don't approach them.

John [00:32:38]: Yeah, yeah, no, you gotta, like. But yeah, like I said, you can

Nicole [00:32:42]: make them work for it, right? Yeah, he might complain. He can complain to his bros. Make him work for it.

John [00:32:47]: It depends on what kind of man that you want. If you want a feminine man, then go. Then go manhandle, approach him. But. But most of the men that like that you're gonna want, that you're gonna be attracted to, that are masculine men, they are going to be the ones that approach. Yeah, there's going to be some guys that approach as well. But you gotta. You gotta take the bad with the good. Because I think a lot of women also like, the reason why a lot of men are afraid to approach women is because women are like, I don't want to be approached, or they like. Or they're like, this guy's sexually harassing me or whatever, you know, like, not to say that there's not creepy guys, but even the creepy guys, like, unless they're really like, doing something inappropriate, you should just take that as just part of the game. Because if you start acting very inapproachable or like, if women in general make it where they're calling security because the guy approached them or what. Which happens, you know, then they make it more difficult for guys to approach and it's. You're gonna. You're gonna make it so that no guy approaches you. Right. Because a lot of women complain now that guys never approach them. And it's like. Well, because in society, like, a lot of women have made it harder for men where men are afraid to approach because they don't want to get in trouble, they won't get kicked out of the gym or the.

Nicole [00:34:05]: Well, they do need to stop being creepy, though.

John [00:34:07]: Yeah. Like, yeah, you should not be creepy. But at the same time, that's. That's what's also happening. So that's what guys like. Because guys all the time, I mean, most of the guys that say this are loser guys, but I hear it all the time from dating, from coaching guys is that they'll say, oh, I don't want to. Like if I approach a girl, she's gonna me to me or she's gonna get me for sexual harassment. Or like, or even guys that are like, oh, like they're now like, I, I, I wouldn't kiss the girl, I need to ask her permission first. And I'm like, okay, well like that's lame. Like I get it. But if you do that on a date, that's lame, right?

Nicole [00:34:49]: Like, yeah, you should feel out the situation. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't think you should just go up to someone and kiss them. I want to reiterate that, but I get that you feel.

John [00:34:58]: What about picking them up, spinning them around again, you have to calibrate the situation.

Nicole [00:35:04]: Yeah, exactly. And I, I don't doubt your ability to do that. However, I think most men cannot do that. But like, men would have less fear if they were able to calculate the situation. Yeah, better. Like if you're on a date again, you're both mutually interested in each other.

John [00:35:27]: Right. Like, or, or, or one is interested in free food and the other one,

Nicole [00:35:34]: well, look, if you went there for free food, you also risk potentially getting kissed by this person.

John [00:35:38]: Did you, did you get red pilled on that? I forgot to ask you. When one of our friends was talking about how she did that all the

Nicole [00:35:45]: time on two guys, I was just like, what?

John [00:35:49]: I was telling you, women do that.

Nicole [00:35:50]: I know that women do that. Yeah, but I could morally never.

John [00:35:54]: No, no. It's so horrible. It's such a stupid thing.

Nicole [00:35:56]: Like that is literally like a debt that I would not want on my life. Like I'm not using someone for food.

John [00:36:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:03]: And then I'll eat ramen noodles before I do that.

John [00:36:05]: And then what happens if you go out with a guy that you've been using all these guys for food and then you go with the guy and you actually like the guy and then somehow he finds out that you're using these guys for food and then he's like, fuck you. Like, and you've ruined yourself.

Nicole [00:36:19]: Like, yeah, it's just, I feel like it's not good juju.

John [00:36:22]: No, it's not good juju.

Nicole [00:36:23]: But, but yeah, no, but also if you're using a guy for food, you run the risk of getting kissed or whatever because you made the person think that you're on a romantic date.

John [00:36:35]: Right, exactly. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:37]: Like, yeah, again, only, only, only go

John [00:36:43]: on a date with someone who you would want to kiss you.

Nicole [00:36:47]: How is that not real life? Like, how are these guys afraid of me, too, from a date? Like, if I go on a date with you, I'm risking you potentially trying to kiss me.

John [00:36:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:37:00]: I made that choice.

John [00:37:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:03]: That doesn't mean that I'll go on another one with you. Or that doesn't mean that I'll like the kiss if it sucks. But, like, I understand the risk. Yeah, it's a date.

John [00:37:12]: So you understood the risk.

Nicole [00:37:12]: It's not just a hangout.

John [00:37:13]: So you understood the risk when you went date with me?

Nicole [00:37:16]: Yeah, I did.

John [00:37:17]: It was gonna happen, so.

Nicole [00:37:19]: Yeah, but you tried for other things that did not work.

John [00:37:24]: My phone was dying. I needed to charge it at your house?

Nicole [00:37:27]: Yeah. I'm like, there's a charger right here in the car. There you go.

John [00:37:32]: But, yeah, I think that's. I don't know if there's anything else. Do you have anything else on that topic?

Nicole [00:37:38]: No. I mean, again, just I guess to reiterate, like, even though it might seem like a good idea, it's not a good idea. And especially as women, like, we have to kind of force men to step up to the plate because they're just getting more and more lazy with, like, not wanting to put in the effort, not wanting to pursue women and all those things. And, like, I agree with what you said.

John [00:38:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:02]: Do not also call security on a guy unless you are genuinely, like, in a bad situation with a man.

John [00:38:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:10]: Because, like, we also shouldn't make it harder for men to pursue us.

John [00:38:14]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:16]: Especially because women want men to pursue us. Women don't want to be the pursuers.

John [00:38:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:21]: So, like, we have to make men have to pursue us while also making it so only the really serious issues are being handled by security or whatever, these extreme measures, so that men aren't afraid to pursue women.

John [00:38:37]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:38]: And if you go on a date with a man, he's probably gonna try to kiss you if you didn't know that.

John [00:38:44]: You have to take. Yeah, you have to take risk.

Nicole [00:38:48]: That's probably gonna happen. And if you don't want him to kiss you, don't go on a date with that guy.

John [00:38:52]: True. I think that's good advice to follow. It should be obvious.

Nicole [00:38:56]: Right?

John [00:38:56]: Good fight.

Nicole [00:38:57]: I would. I thought that was obvious. But you know what? If it needs to be said, it has been said.

John [00:39:01]: It's confusing sometimes.

Nicole [00:39:03]: But I do think this is good for both men and women to hear, because, granted, I don't think women are going out of their way being Like I want to pursue men, but I think it was good for women to hear that even if you're attractive or even if like you want to pursue a man.

John [00:39:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:19]: That you might even ruin your chance with that guy by coming on too strong.

John [00:39:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:25]: Because men are more like pursuers. They want the chase.

John [00:39:31]: And you scare them.

Nicole [00:39:32]: Right? You scare them off. Even if they like you, even they're attracted to you, they're scared.

John [00:39:35]: There was this one, I used to go to this, this underage nightclub when I was like 19. Like after 2am they would like, they'd let the underage. And I went after 2am, after 2am

Nicole [00:39:47]: so at like 3 in the morning. Yeah, they would let underage.

John [00:39:50]: Once they stopped serving alcohol. Then underage could come in then from like two.

Nicole [00:39:54]: But you had to be 18, right?

John [00:39:56]: You had to be 18.

Nicole [00:39:57]: Okay.

John [00:39:57]: So I was like 19 or so

Nicole [00:39:58]: your 20s to 18.

John [00:40:00]: And so I would go there with Micah and our group and there'd be this one girl that I, I mean she was probably attractive. I don't, I like, I don't. Yeah, I mean she was attractive. Right. But she would always like, when I would go there would always like grind up on me on the dance and I would like, I would hate to go. I would be like, I would try to avoid her.

Nicole [00:40:23]: She's going to grind on me.

John [00:40:25]: Yeah. She'd grab my hand on her boobs and I'm like, it's just like not

Nicole [00:40:32]: you complaining that a woman was grinding on you. All these guys are going to be so mad at you.

John [00:40:37]: They're like, wow, I'm just telling the truth. Like I speak your truth. I was afraid to go to the place cuz I was like, she's going to show up. Becky or whatever her name is. And then like especially that Back that Ass up song. I'm like this song. Now she's really going to.

Nicole [00:40:52]: Now she's really going to back that ass up.

John [00:40:55]: And that's hilarious. But it was funny because it was probably a girl that I would have been attracted to in normal life except she made me paranoid to go to the place and like to like to see her there because it was just too aggressive.

Nicole [00:41:09]: Yeah.

John [00:41:09]: You know, I mean, granted I was younger too, but at the time, so I was a little more. But still it was a great. It was like, like you can ask Micah about it. It was so funny because he. Because they would always be like, what the fuck are you doing, John? Like, why are you like, why don't you just go home with Becky or Whatever it was. And I'm like, why are you running away from her? Why are you avoiding her? Because they're like, she's hot. Like, what are you doing? And I like, I just.

Nicole [00:41:34]: Like, she just molested me in the club.

John [00:41:36]: Yeah, it's like.

Nicole [00:41:38]: It's too much.

John [00:41:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:40]: See, women can be creepy, too. Women can do, too, I guess.

John [00:41:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:42]: That's a lot different, though. Like, forcing yourself on a man is a lot different than being like, yeah, hey, you're attractive as a woman. Going up to a man.

John [00:41:50]: Yeah, there's definitely levels to it, but. Yeah, but I mean, that's real.

Nicole [00:41:53]: But also, women grabbing you when you're running also, too. Like, who does that?

John [00:41:58]: Like, drunk women. Yeah. Or groups. When women are in groups, they're a lot more bold.

Nicole [00:42:05]: That's true. But still, you're just gonna grab someone.

John [00:42:08]: Look, if I did that, I would go to jail. I would just go to jail. Well. Well, I mean, that's different. But, like, not just someone running down the street.

Nicole [00:42:16]: That's true. Like, no, that's true. We could do a whole episode on things that women are allowed to do that men would be put in jail for.

John [00:42:25]: Exactly. Oh, that's very true.

Nicole [00:42:26]: So, yeah, I mean, I agree with that. But, yeah, women. Just let the men pursue you. Don't do it. I mean, if you really want to, you can. But just know that it's.

John [00:42:37]: Yeah. The furthest I would go is this, like, just the little finger there. But you gotta make some eye contact first. Maybe be a little seductive. Just a little flip the hair. Put your hair behind your head. And then be like, come here, big guy.

Nicole [00:42:53]: I don't know about that. Nice try with your.

John [00:42:57]: Something like that. Just.

Nicole [00:42:59]: Yeah.

John [00:42:59]: Push up the boobs a little bit

Nicole [00:43:01]: and then be like, that looks exactly like what Becky did. That scared you off. So maybe don't. Subtle is better.

John [00:43:12]: Yeah, subtle. The subtle. More subtle approach is better for sure.

Nicole [00:43:16]: But, yeah, no, I think we did a good job covering it.

John [00:43:20]: Well, we'll call it then. All right, guys, check us out@betterthanperfectpod.com Send us an email at betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com and stay tuned. Yeah. Share. Share with your friends.

Nicole [00:43:31]: Yeah, like, share. Subscribe. Yeah.

John [00:43:33]: And don't just randomly kiss people unless you like. That's. It's on your. It's on you.

Nicole [00:43:39]: If you do it, you will probably go to shit.

John [00:43:41]: I didn't tell you to do it. So, bye. See you next time.