John [00:00:00]: If you come into a new relationship and maybe you have some things, like, I know with us, you would get defensive pretty quickly. Luckily, I could, like, realize where that came from. But even at times I would have to be like, hey, like, we can't really work through things if you're just going to instantly get defensive. You know what I mean? Like that you defensive, like something. What I'm saying is like you saying, john, okay, we're going to fight on this episode.

Nicole [00:00:25]: You fight. All right, I'm done. I'm done.

John [00:00:28]: Go ahead. Swear to God, if you say it

Nicole [00:00:29]: one more time now I want to say no. Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

John [00:00:58]: That's right.

Nicole [00:00:59]: And today we're going to talk about getting the transition phase. Getting out of one relationship.

John [00:01:04]: Transition.

Nicole [00:01:05]: Yeah, transitioning. Getting out of one relationship and then into the next one.

John [00:01:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:11]: How should you do it? What should you think about how long? All those things.

John [00:01:15]: Yeah. Well, I'll start by saying, I swear I heard at one point as far as time wise, before you jump into another relationship, that it's like half of the time you were in the relationship is the time you should take before you get into another one.

Nicole [00:01:33]: That could be a long time for some people. Yeah, like it could be a really long time. It could be like decades, which I'm

John [00:01:39]: saying, like, unfortunately, I don't think there is like a set set time.

Nicole [00:01:46]: Yeah, yeah.

John [00:01:47]: I think that you have to be honest with yourself and realize what the emotional, I don't want to say damage, but if you broke up, there's going to be emotional damage.

Nicole [00:02:02]: Yeah, emotional damage.

John [00:02:03]: Yeah. You have to really look at how long do you realistically think that this might take? And then also don't make it a line in the sand because like, let's say you're really optimistic and you're like, oh, like I'll take six months.

Nicole [00:02:19]: Yeah.

John [00:02:20]: But by then the six months, you're still kind of like, no, this stuff is still bothering me. Like, I still don't feel like I have worked on the things emotionally from this past relationship. I think push it. Yeah. Like push the goal further. Like, I think it has to be based on what you went through because plenty of people can be in a 20 year relationship and they don't need 10 years.

Nicole [00:02:45]: Right.

John [00:02:46]: To like work through it. Now do I think everybody needs some sort of time after breakup? Absolutely. Like, you need time to absorb it, you need time to analyze it. You need time to like, figure out how you want to move forward. Because really when it comes to dating, and especially if you're in a relationship where you're committed and you break up, like, you do have to analyze that and you have to realize what went wrong, what went right, what do you want done differently? Like, what are you looking for now? Now, is it different? Is it the same? Is, you know, there's so many different aspects and so that's going to take time. So I think, like, I can't give a set time and I don't think it's a set time. Like the thing that I saw that was like, you know, half of the time you were together.

Nicole [00:03:36]: Yeah.

John [00:03:37]: Because I think some people now, if you like really sit with yourself for three months and you're like, I'm going to really focus on like the things that I need to focus on how this relationship went, like healing these things or working through these things or whatever, I think you can do it in three months. But I think that that's like extreme, like focusing on.

Nicole [00:03:59]: And it depends on like what happened in the relationship.

John [00:04:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:02]: What, where you already started from and.

John [00:04:04]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:04:05]: And like, and how long. I mean, I think the link, I mean, I think realistically in a 20 year relationship, probably a good four or five years, actually.

John [00:04:14]: I mean, I do think it would be years for a 20 year relationship.

Nicole [00:04:18]: Talking from personal experience of going from more than one relationship to one new relationship.

John [00:04:27]: You're a mess, but I love you.

Nicole [00:04:31]: It definitely created a lot of chaos. Jumping straight in. Right?

John [00:04:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:36]: So, you know, like, I mean, those were the situation. It was the situation. What it was, you know, but had I had a breather in there, I probably would have avoided a lot of the chaos that we initially went through because I was still sorting out a lot of shit for a long time that took a lot to sort out.

John [00:04:53]: Well, you suppressed a lot of it and then it hit you like a ton of bricks.

Nicole [00:04:57]: Yeah.

John [00:04:57]: And then. Yeah, like, don't recommend that.

Nicole [00:05:00]: No, it was, it was great. I mean, we, we did what we, what we did. Like we were in love. Like, obviously, Like, I don't regret, like that I would have chosen you going through all that shit for sure. But, you know, had I had like the master plan and the options and I could still be with you, I would have put a little space in there, put a little breather in there to like, get my shit together and sort stuff out. Because, you know, like, you don't anticipate what is going to happen afterwards. Right. Because it takes time for those life changes to really sink in and then the emotional processing of what's actually happened. Right. And to get all that stuff sorted out. Right. So I think that you do need that space, and it's probably more space than you think that you need.

John [00:05:54]: True.

Nicole [00:05:56]: And having coached a lot of guys, having to work with a lot of guys, where I've been through it with them after their breakups, and it takes a long time sometimes for them to get totally over their relationship, even when it was a bad relationship. Because you get. The best example I used to use was the Shawshank Redemption, Right. In that movie, there's the old librarian guy and he's been in jail for long, long time. 40 years or something. 50 years, whatever it is, most of his life he spent in that jail. And then he gets out of jail and then like a couple weeks later they find him hanging from his ceiling fan in his apartment because he couldn't handle the freedom. Like he. Because it was. Because the life change was too much for him. Like, you would think getting out of jail would be a good thing, but it's not about the quality of the situation you're in. It's about changes after a long period of time are very hard for any person, especially.

John [00:07:00]: Big change.

Nicole [00:07:01]: Exactly.

John [00:07:02]: A lot of change really quickly.

Nicole [00:07:04]: Especially like divorces, especially living with someone. Right. Like that kind of. It doesn't even matter if you're at the point you don't even like the person. It's a big change. And I think most people under, anticipate or underestimate what it will take to go through and emotionally cleanse yourself from that situation, to process all that stuff.

John [00:07:28]: So for sure. And I don't think that you have to be healed completely before you get into another relationship, but you definitely have to process your feelings about the person you were with. Like, that has to be fully gone. Because if you still have feelings about the person that you were with, like, good, bad, whatever, like they're still living rent free in your head.

Nicole [00:07:52]: Yeah.

John [00:07:53]: That's not going to be good for any relationship you get into. Now, I say this because if you come into a new relationship and maybe you have some things that, like, like, I know with us, like, you would get defensive pretty quickly and like, luckily I could, like, realize where that came from. But even at times I would have to be like, hey, like, like you're kind of, like, instantly getting defensive. And I get why.

Nicole [00:08:21]: No, I didn't.

John [00:08:21]: But, like. But at the same time, like, I'm not. I'm not, like, doing anything to make you so defensive with me. Like, I know where this is coming from, but, like, we can't really work through things if you're just gonna instantly get defensive. You know what I mean? Like, that you. Defensive, like, something. They're not gonna even know what that is referencing, but unless they're in San Diego and they went to the old Globe. But what I'm saying is, like, you saying. Just kidding, John.

Nicole [00:08:52]: Okay,

John [00:08:57]: we're gonna fight on this episode.

Nicole [00:08:59]: You fight. All right, I'm done. I'm done. Go ahead. Sorry.

John [00:09:03]: I swear to God, if you say it one more time.

Nicole [00:09:07]: Now. I want to say it one more time.

John [00:09:08]: No.

Nicole [00:09:08]: Okay, Go ahead. Go ahead.

John [00:09:11]: I will just sit here for the rest of the episode not saying anything if you say it one more time.

Nicole [00:09:16]: Okay.

John [00:09:16]: It's not worth it because you interrupted what I was saying.

Nicole [00:09:19]: I'm sorry. Multiple apologies.

John [00:09:22]: Thank you. Anyway, what I was saying was that if you have things that maybe are residual from your past relationship.

Nicole [00:09:30]: Yeah.

John [00:09:31]: Those should be able to be worked through with your partner.

Nicole [00:09:34]: Right.

John [00:09:35]: Like, once you talk about. Once you get to the point of your relationship where you talk about your previous relationships in a constructive way, like, your partner should understand and your partner should help you work through those things.

Nicole [00:09:48]: Yeah.

John [00:09:48]: Now, if you're still, like, I don't know if I love this person or something, or, like, I was with them so long, now I want to go back to jail or whatever. Those you need to work through.

Nicole [00:09:59]: Exactly.

John [00:09:59]: Those things have to be worked through if you still have any sort of feelings.

Nicole [00:10:03]: Yeah.

John [00:10:03]: Where you might want to be with them again or you're like, you know, they really bugged me, but I think that they're the only person that I like would have a future with. You're not ready.

Nicole [00:10:13]: Right? Exactly. Yeah.

John [00:10:15]: Like, that, I feel like, is the biggest thing.

Nicole [00:10:17]: And being with someone else will not make you ready.

John [00:10:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:20]: Right. That's a mistake that. That I definitely. One of my friends thought was gonna be the solution to his problem, and it didn't work.

John [00:10:30]: Is what getting married made them ready is.

Nicole [00:10:33]: Is. Is like after getting his divorce, finding someone else to help them get over. Like, I mean, people do that in

John [00:10:40]: general, but that's a recipe for disaster.

Nicole [00:10:42]: Yes, it is. It is. Because you might find someone that is good for you, but you're going to be miserable for some time. You might blow it up or Blow it up. Exactly. Because now you're.

John [00:10:53]: You might ruin a good thing.

Nicole [00:10:54]: Exactly. Yeah. Which. Which I was almost in danger of doing that. Right. So.

John [00:11:00]: Yes, unfortunately.

Nicole [00:11:01]: But no, but you're right. You're right. I think some of it too is like, you have to. There's some things that you're gonna work through in the next relationship, but there's also like a self reflection period where you say, okay, no matter how wrong or right you were in the relationship, you did something wrong. Right. Because you got with the person. So there is something that you did wrong. Whether you know in the relationship or like some, some self reflection, you can't blame it all on the other person. Right. There's something to learn about yourself or you stayed with them for so long or whatever it was.

John [00:11:35]: It could even be tolerating behavior you shouldn't have tolerated.

Nicole [00:11:39]: So I think it's important to evaluate that and say, okay, how can you fix this for the next one? And what are the new standards, boundaries that you would have? What will you tolerate and not tolerate very quickly? Because almost all the things in a relationship, they grow from the beginning. Exactly. And so, especially with men, when I'm coaching them, I have to constantly tell them, okay, when you're dating a woman from the very beginning, the next time her yelling at you, that's not going to be okay. Like, before it gets to the point where she's smacking you or calling you names and screaming at you. Like, it started with her raising her voice at you. It started with her being snippy with you that you allowed when you were dating. And so you gotta think about this and process this and be like, okay, before you just jump into something else, all right, these are the things that I'm going to do differently. I'm not gonna allow these things to grow. I'm not gonna allow these habits to happen that crept into the relationship at some point in time or even just the whole thing of just yourself. Okay. Tired of getting in a relationship where you yell and scream and you call each other names and have horrible fights.

John [00:12:52]: Well, nip that in the buddy.

Nicole [00:12:54]: It begins with you when you make the commitment of, okay, before I get into the next relationship, I already know going into it, I'm never going to raise my voice at my spouse or my partner or whoever I'm dating. I'm never going to call them a name or do a thing right Again, it doesn't mean that you're going to be perfect, but you have those new standards and you recognize that you did this in the past, and you don't want that to become that the pattern. Because relationships normalize. And all relationships, not just romantic relationships, but relationships normalize. You know, you got some buddies that you call shit bag every time you see them, and that's just what you do. But it became a normalization because that happened. And then it, you know, and now it feels fine to do that, but it might not be fine. It might not be cool. That's not really.

John [00:13:39]: It might just be normalized exactly like you said.

Nicole [00:13:41]: Yeah. And so the same thing happens where. But you can normalize the good things in a relationship. Like, our relationship is normalized where we don't do half of the shit that we did in other relationships. I know for me, I didn't. Probably the same for you. Because our normalization is that we don't do those things. And so I think that you have to have that time to reflect. And then where did things go wrong? What did you do? If you don't know why this relationship fell apart, you're not ready for the next one. You have to know that because it's like, you know, it's like getting. It's like getting your. Your house robbed multiple times. And then, like before you installed this, like, the. The security system or, you know, before you go on vacation, next time you need to figure out why was your house kept on getting robbed? Like, what was it? Like, where did they break in?

John [00:14:27]: You'll repeat the same pattern exactly like you said if you don't reflect on it for sure. And I feel like there's something else I was gonna say, but now I forgot what it was. I think it was some of the first things that you said when you first started talking.

Nicole [00:14:42]: What was I talking about? About, like, this. Some of the stuff that you do need to resolve before you get into relationship. Some of the stuff you could resolve in the relationship.

John [00:14:53]: Yeah. I feel like I had mentioned that, like, at the end, but I thought there was something else in there that you had said that I really wanted to say something about, but I completely forgot it now.

Nicole [00:15:06]: It'll come to you. You'll get it.

John [00:15:09]: Yeah, well, it's not here now.

Nicole [00:15:12]: Okay, well, when it comes. But. But yeah, you want to think about what that thing is.

John [00:15:20]: Yeah, My brain can't move on from that. I'm trying to think. I mean, you can say something.

Nicole [00:15:25]: I mean, I will say, like, wait, just tick down the clock until you get it. But no, I think the things. There are some things, though, that you will have to work on in the New relationship. And you have to expect that, because the things that you haven't really learned yet, some of them you can only learn inside a relationship. You can identify. These are the things I need to work on. But then you can try to work on them in that next relationship. And I think that's important because that's the whole point of relationship, is to make you grow. Right. That's why we're together, is because we grow together. That's what caused that, because you can only achieve so much growth on your own.

John [00:15:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:00]: So.

John [00:16:00]: But I remembered it.

Nicole [00:16:01]: Oh, go ahead for it.

John [00:16:02]: Go for it. It was what you mentioned about nipping things in the bud in the beginning.

Nicole [00:16:05]: Oh, yeah.

John [00:16:06]: And that's why we have the rules of the relationship video, which, if you haven't watched that, you should. And I think it proves, too, that having rules, especially in the beginning of your relationship for, like, your expectations of how the relationship's going to go.

Nicole [00:16:24]: Yeah.

John [00:16:25]: Is actually super beneficial. And again, like, you don't have to come in, like, you can't do this. You can't do this. It shouldn't be like that. It's like, we're not going to do these things because I genuinely believe, besides the, like, mutual respect that we have for each other, the rules, and like, neither of us doing these things that would affect the other person has also really helped keep our relationship strong and made it stronger throughout. Because also, we would add new rules if they came along. Like, I'm trying to think of some new rule that we have. Well, I mean, I guess, like, before we got married, we didn't have the rule of not saying the word divorce, but now we have that rule where we don't say the word divorce. Because, like, that's just not acceptable to be throwing around those things. Like, it will emotionally change the situation and it shouldn't be normalized, like you said. So I think, like you said, analyzing the situation and you do have to also analyze your part in it. And again, that might even be something like, I shouldn't have tolerated this. Like, don't beat yourself up, because that's not gonna help. Then you'll have another problem that you have to try to conquer before you go back out in the dating world. But you need to be realistic. You need to be honest. You need to fully process your feelings about the person that you were with.

Nicole [00:17:43]: Yeah.

John [00:17:43]: Because I'm sure there are some good things you did choose to be with that person. So you can look at those aspects and be like, oh, I do really still want, though Someone that cares about family or, you know, like, whatever good things, you can still hold onto those things, but you have to let go of your feelings towards that person. Because anyone who's ever been in, like a new relationship, and then, like, you still feel like your partner has feelings for their ex, or maybe they might say that they don't, but then they leave you and they go back to their ex. Like, that's really crappy to put on someone else. So you really have to make sure that you fully process your emotions about the person that you were with before. Because, I mean, you wouldn't want to meet somebody and be like, oh, like we're having a great time, and then they leave you and go back to their ex. You know what I mean?

Nicole [00:18:36]: Like, quite traumatic, especially if they did it twice or so.

John [00:18:41]: Yeah, especially.

Nicole [00:18:43]: Yeah.

John [00:18:45]: But that's neither here nor there. But I'm just saying that I think that's honestly the. The biggest thing is, like, you have to, like you said, because I agree with you, I think that there are going to be some things that you aren't even going to be actually able to completely fix on your own.

Nicole [00:19:02]: Yeah.

John [00:19:03]: Because relationships are mirrors to us, and you need that mirror in order to focus on what you need to work on. And sometimes you need that person that supports you and understands to support you through working through this issue that you have. You know what I mean? But I think the feelings that you have towards the other person, they have to be completely gone. So however long that that takes you is how long you should.

Nicole [00:19:32]: Right.

John [00:19:32]: Again, you should definitely still in the meantime reflect and, like, realize what you're going to do differently.

Nicole [00:19:39]: Yeah.

John [00:19:40]: Like your expectations in the relationship, you know, or like rules that you would like to put into place. You should do all those things as well, too. But a lot of people, sometimes they feel like they've reflected. They're like, okay, I'll do this differently. But they still kind of have those feelings for their ex partner. Yeah, that's going to mess things up.

Nicole [00:20:00]: Yeah. Well, you have to be able to be able to be no contact for a pretty good amount of time.

John [00:20:04]: True.

Nicole [00:20:05]: Unless you have a kid, you have something where you have to. But if you can't be no contact with your ex, then you're not ready for another relationship. Because why can't you be no contact? Cause there's still some kind of emotional connection. That's what it means. Right. Unless you have a really good reason, which I don't know of any other one besides having a kid that you have to co parent. But.

John [00:20:27]: And even then, it shouldn't be buddy, buddy. It should be about the child.

Nicole [00:20:31]: Cause you can't, you should not be friends with your ex unless you just

John [00:20:36]: want to be smart.

Nicole [00:20:37]: That's just my problems, right? Like, because if you get into another relationship, you're gonna have a problem with that relationship, right? Like, don't invest in something that you're gonna have to cut off. Cause you definitely don't wanna be friends with your ex and be in another relationship that's not gonna work out. And then it's not a full processing, it's not a full closing of the,

John [00:20:55]: of the book, right?

Nicole [00:20:57]: Because why. Why do you still have that connection then, right? At that point? You know, it's like. And people make all kinds of justifications as to why, but it's an addiction, just like people on drugs will make all kinds of justifications.

John [00:21:10]: And it's keeping your options open, really, if you're going to be honest, it's keeping your options open for something because people will choose something familiar over something good for them.

Nicole [00:21:21]: Right?

John [00:21:21]: So that's also, if I'm being honest, why people stay in touch with their exes and have like a friendship is because a lot of times they feel like if shit hits the fan for either person, they'll just go back to each other. Even though it wasn't good, even though you broke up for a reason. Like, it's that having someone, even if it's bad. I mean, how many people know someone who does something or has a relationship in their life that is not good for them, but they keep going back to it?

Nicole [00:21:52]: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. All the time.

John [00:21:54]: Like, it's the familiarity. It's that, like you said, like, people have a huge problem with change, which I get. It's really hard to go through change, but also the only constant in life is change. And so really, instead of trying to avoid change or stay comfortable even though you're not happy, you have to learn to embrace change. You have to learn to, you know, grow, to learn from your mistakes and move forward making better decisions. That's. I mean, what every breakup should really be is, you know, reflecting on it, realizing what happened, what went right, what went wrong, how you're going to move forward, you know, processing not being with this person anymore. You know, like it's, it's multiple steps to this process. And so that's why I also don't think that you can have a set time.

Nicole [00:22:47]: Yeah.

John [00:22:47]: Because it's so many different aspects of it. And again, like I said, if someone's like locked themselves in their house and they're like, I'm just gonna face all this stuff and I'm gonna really work through it for three months, do I think they could do it? Probably, if they really do it.

Nicole [00:23:03]: And they're no contact.

John [00:23:05]: Right. And they're no contact and they're kind of like just that's all they're focusing on. Like that's their main focus. Sure. And they're like really committed to doing it the right way. But at the same time, like, like you said, if you've been in like a 10 year relationship, that's still probably going to take a few years. But also at the same time to what you said, like about how you and I met, I will say that doesn't mean you have to write off somebody that comes across that you feel like is the right person for you. Now if you still haven't gotten over your romantic feelings for your ex, it is best for them, even if you really like them, to be like, hey, like, I really am interested in getting to know you more and everything, but I'm just not ready yet. Like, be honest with them. Yeah, because maybe, I mean, they're probably not going to wait around for you, but maybe they will be single in like five more months when you finally feel ready. Yeah, but that's, it's better to be honest. Even if like something crosses your path or maybe someone crosses your path, but you haven't like reflected on some of the lessons or things, but you've gotten over your romantic feelings towards your ex, then I would say you can proceed, just proceed with caution. Because there might still be some baggage that really you should work through that you might bring into this relationship. But also if it's the right person, they're going to want to help you and you should want to help them.

Nicole [00:24:32]: And it's ideal. If you like, if you're not even putting yourself in the situation and it just happens. Well, like until you're ready. It's better if when you get out of relationship you have a transition period where you establish a new normal of yourself living by yourself or being by yourself. And that becomes the change. Like you're adjusted to that change and then you make the change to be in a new relationship.

John [00:24:59]: That's true.

Nicole [00:25:00]: Because otherwise, like you're still not used

John [00:25:04]: to being by yourself, codependent.

Nicole [00:25:06]: Yeah, you might, you're not, you're not on your own. You need to be okay with being alone, being by yourself, having that change processed. And then you can be Fully sure that if that change processed, then the previous relationship stuff is done and you can go into another one. Otherwise if you don't have that period, then when you get into the new one, you might still have the old one. Right. So that's why like that.

John [00:25:28]: That's true.

Nicole [00:25:29]: Makes the most sense. That's ideal. Right.

John [00:25:31]: And another thing why that's a really good idea.

Nicole [00:25:34]: Yeah.

John [00:25:34]: Is that when you're on your own and you can do whatever you want, like you don't have someone's feelings involved anymore.

Nicole [00:25:40]: Yeah.

John [00:25:41]: When something good comes along and it's better than your solitude.

Nicole [00:25:45]: Right.

John [00:25:47]: Then you will know that it's worth pursuing. But like you said.

Nicole [00:25:51]: Yeah.

John [00:25:51]: If you're still kind of like codependent or you're lonely. Loneliness is also very, very trick. It will push people into just finding somebody because they're lonely. Like you have to face the loneliness, you have to face yourself. You have to face being on your own, like you said, and fully accept that. And that feels like the new normal to you before you move forward.

Nicole [00:26:15]: And we know people who have done that where the loneliness has caused them to jump into something that they regretted that was not the best option for them. And then they're in it. And so.

John [00:26:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:31]: So you want to really be careful there because you need to be thinking straight. You're more likely to get into the wrong relationship if you don't give the time afterwards. And then you're just going to be back here again and processing another failed relationship.

John [00:26:46]: And you're more likely to get in the wrong relationship if it's coming from a place of loneliness. If I'm being honest.

Nicole [00:26:51]: Yeah.

John [00:26:51]: Like the loneliness will overtake your decision making center of your brain and just want to fix that problem. And then you probably will overlook things that you don't actually want in a relationship.

Nicole [00:27:03]: Yeah.

John [00:27:03]: Just to fulfill the lack of being like lonely anymore.

Nicole [00:27:08]: Yeah. So what are the things you think that you should kind of dissect after the relationship? I was thinking like, you know, the communication pattern, like your argument patterns. What other things do you feel like when you're reflecting in between that you should look at as areas to examine?

John [00:27:29]: I mean, I think communication and conflict resolution for sure. Because that's huge. Like we've talked about, like you ha. That has to be good. Obviously it wasn't good.

Nicole [00:27:41]: Right.

John [00:27:41]: Because you broke up. You know what I mean? So. So I think that actually would probably be the first thing.

Nicole [00:27:47]: Yeah, for sure.

John [00:27:48]: I think also like maybe it would be the rules or how your relationship was structured like, did you guys, like, call each other names? Like, could you guys go out to bars? Did you, you know, like, did your partner go on a trip and you told them that it didn't make you feel comfortable and they didn't care? Like, was there. Again, that might be communication, but, yeah, you know, like. But did you, like, let it slide because you didn't want to, like, have a conflict or whatever? You know what I mean? Like, I think, like, looking at the dynamic of the relationship when you guys were together, like, how was cohabitating if you lived together? Or how was. Like, was it tit for tat? Were they, like, oh, like, well, I made dinner last time, so you need to make dinner now. Or, like. And how did that feel? Were you okay with that? Like, did you want something that felt a little bit more like, pouring into each other rather than, like, keeping score? You know? Like, I think that you have to analyze the dynamic of the relationship, which. Like, it's hard, I guess. Like, I'm. I can't come up with a word for it. Like, the communication and the conflict resolution is also a part of this. But I'm also trying to think of, like, what word I would use to describe, like. Yeah, the. Just, like, daily dynamic.

Nicole [00:29:12]: Yeah, I. I guess, like, the. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's a word for the daily dynamic.

John [00:29:20]: The. The respect for each other. Yeah, maybe respect for each other. Yeah. But sex life, that. I mean, like.

Nicole [00:29:35]: Yeah. What are the. The list of things that were. That were good, things that were bad, and just in entirety. Right. Like, you know, what would you. What would you have changed?

John [00:29:47]: Yeah, I think also, too, like, where you aligned on things or you misaligned or, like, things that are, like, morally important to you. Were they aligned or were they not aligned?

Nicole [00:30:00]: What were the pattern. Oh, go ahead. Okay. Sorry.

John [00:30:03]: No, well, I mean, that's like, the fight patterns.

Nicole [00:30:05]: Like, what caused the fights? Like, is it the same issue? What was the issue?

John [00:30:10]: I mean, I think that's kind of communication.

Nicole [00:30:12]: Yeah, it is, but, like, identifying that exact pattern. Okay. What we always need.

John [00:30:20]: It would be worth just looking at, just kind of. To maybe tie it all together. Attachment styles.

Nicole [00:30:27]: Oh, yeah, that's true.

John [00:30:28]: You know, because, like, did you act more avoidant in the relationship than you normally are and then the other person was anxious or, like, were they anxious and it made you more avoidant? Like, you know, like. Or do you feel like you were secure at first and then you turned into something else? Or were they secure at first and Then turned into something else.

Nicole [00:30:48]: Yeah.

John [00:30:49]: Like, where did the. I guess, too. And honestly, where did. Do you feel like the relationship. Like, what was the final nail in the coffin? Was it communication? Was it lifestyle? I mean, I guess, too, like, lifestyle differences, you know, like, if someone wants to settle down and start a family, but someone travels a lot for their job, that's kind of hard, you know, like, people do it, but maybe they wanted, you know, grounding. Like, no, like, I want, you know, my kids to have a parent that comes home or their parents come home every day. You know what I mean? So sometimes the, like, big core things too obviously aren't aligned, and sometimes it's communication style. Like, we also don't, like, call each other names or do things like that because we don't want it to be normalized.

Nicole [00:31:38]: Right.

John [00:31:39]: Because that's a slippery slope into, like, well, what's a joke and what's hurtful? Like, so we don't even go there. You know what I mean? So you. I don't know. It's kind of hard to put it into. I thought you did good with your, like, little sections, but I feel like it is hard to, like, classify some of these things into a section, if that makes sense.

Nicole [00:32:01]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things to reflect on. And for. I mean, one of them would be, like, when did the relationship actually end? Because it's not when you broke up.

John [00:32:10]: True. Like, when did you check out? Or they check out.

Nicole [00:32:12]: Yeah. When did it really end? And then, you know, you're. And then why, like, what caused it? Oh, one. One good one is, like, the bitterness. Like, to get rid of all the bitterness and forgive and the resentment. Yeah. Because. And how did that build up? Right. Because that will build up again, and you need to clear it out before you start a new relationship.

John [00:32:35]: True.

Nicole [00:32:35]: Because if you're still holding all this resentment and bitterness to your ex, then. Yeah, exactly. You're gonna bring it into the next one because you're coming in with that. And you also may persecute your new relationship for the crimes of the old one.

John [00:32:53]: True.

Nicole [00:32:54]: Because that can happen too. Right. Because you have ingrained habits or you have bitterness or resentment that is, like, within you that needs to just be released. You need to forgive and release that so that you can come in fresh. I think those are.

John [00:33:09]: Yeah, well. And I think you need to honestly assess yourself in the relationship. Like, truly honestly.

Nicole [00:33:14]: Yeah.

John [00:33:14]: Then you also need to assess the other person with as much of emotion out of it as you can.

Nicole [00:33:22]: Yeah.

John [00:33:23]: You know, like, Just try to be like fact only for both yourself and the other person.

Nicole [00:33:30]: Yeah.

John [00:33:32]: Because that will also give you more insight. Cause like you said, like you didn't have no fault in the relationship no matter what. Like, yeah, so you do have to be able to analyze yourself. And then also, you know, like if someone didn't talk to you respectfully and that really hurt your feelings and let's say you didn't say anything early enough and then when you did it, like didn't matter anyway or whatever. Like next time you'll be like, look like we're not going to like talk disrespectfully to each other. You know, like, I'm not going to be in a relationship where that happens. I've been there. It was not good. I feel like it was part of the downfall of, you know, the relationship and so. And then let the person decide from there. But that's also a respectable thing to do. Like anyone who's going to be like, no, I don't want to speak respectfully to each other. I want to be able to say what I need to say. Like that just shows you that that's not a person that you want to be with. You might end up in the same pattern that you did before if you choose to move forward.

Nicole [00:34:32]: Yeah.

John [00:34:33]: So actually having rules and analyzing this stuff and being upfront about it when the relation, new relationship gets to that point will actually protect you from potentially repeating the same mistakes. But if you have these in place, you're more likely to grow and move forward and be with someone that you're more compatible with.

Nicole [00:34:51]: And I think you need to have like the, like, like, like the standards of, in a new relationship in order to get into an exclusive relationship. What is required?

John [00:35:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:01]: So men need to have the captain of the ship talk. We did an episode talking about that. Like the woman needs to be on board if you're going to get an exclusive relationship with her. She needs to understand that you're going to be the man in this relationship. You're going to be the authority in their relationship. That needs to be understood from the get go because it will avoid problems later on. As a woman, you probably need to have the gate that I'm not going to get into a relationship with a man I don't trust. I wouldn't trust to be the captain of the ship. Right. That like he needs to prove himself in these areas before I would get into an exclusive relationship with him. Right. I need to see his temper, need to see these things, how he handles certain Situations before I'm gonna commit myself to him. But I think having those standards coming in is super important because you probably didn't have them before. Right. That's why you got into this. Because a lot of that stuff, just like you said about the rules of relationship, by setting all of this stuff up front, you create an environment where you're gonna be more successful or where the person is gonna opt out. Right. Because you're also training a person on how to relate to you. And what you accept is what you get. And so you have to train the other person and it goes vice versa. But that happens by what standards you set. And when you set boundaries and you say, okay, this is not acceptable, and then that person can either exit or they're gonna comply, and so you're both gonna make these steps. But I think if you're not thinking about these things logically, and usually you're not. Right. When you get into a relationship, they just sort of happen. But after getting out of one is a good time to actually write this stuff down and be like, okay, these are the things that I need to make sure happen. And it doesn't have to be like a checklist of they need to be this tall and have this and that or be this. It can be more of a. Like, these are the guidelines and things that I'll tolerate that I need the relationship to be, not necessarily even the person. Right. Like, you can have some guidelines on the person, but sometimes you don't control who you get attracted to or you fall in love with. Right. But you can control what the relationship is, and those are the things that you need to define and know up front so you know what kind of relationship you're gonna create. Just like if you're gonna create anything, if you're gonna build a house, you wouldn't just start. Yeah. You wouldn't start just nailing two by fours together. You'd know what you're trying to create. How many rooms is it? What kind of relationship are you trying to create? Trying to create a better than perfect relationship or a whack one, you know?

John [00:37:39]: True. Well, I will add to maybe one more thing I was trying really hard not to forget. Oh. To like the list of things that we mentioned. I think it's also important to assess whether you and your partner. Like, I would do it for both of you guys, had a growth or fixed mindset.

Nicole [00:37:56]: Oh, yeah.

John [00:37:57]: Because I will forever die on the hill. That if you are a growth mindset person with a fixed mindset person, it will not Work.

Nicole [00:38:03]: Yeah.

John [00:38:04]: And then maybe, too, though, you were growth mindset before, but then in this relationship, you became more fixed mindset. That's possible too, but you just have. I think that's also very important to try to analyze because that also will help you figure out some of the other things as well. Like the other aspects that we talked about from a more, like, easier, like, place to realize. Like, did this person just not want to change their ways? Did I just not want to change my ways? But I should have, like, been more open to, like, hearing what the growth mindset person had to say. So I don't know. I just think that if either person is a growth mindset person with a fixed mindset, if there's that dynamic in the relationship, it's never going to work.

Nicole [00:38:56]: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you should be growth mindset.

John [00:38:59]: You should be.

Nicole [00:39:00]: Because fixed mindset, you're going to have

John [00:39:01]: problems either way, but you might as well go for another fixed mindset person. So you both can be like, I don't care.

Nicole [00:39:07]: But you need to identify it so that you can see. I mean, you can see where your mindset is fixed, but you can also see where if you're in a relationship with someone who's a fixed mindset, that's not gonna. It's not gonna work.

John [00:39:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:20]: Right. Or it'll work in the short term, but you have to be able to grow together.

John [00:39:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:39:24]: Like, our relationship would not work if we didn't grow together. We've been through a lot of changes in our lives, and we've grown together through those changes.

John [00:39:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:35]: Right. If one of us was just fixed on how we were and staying the same, then we'd be left in the dust. Yeah. It'd be a problem. So.

John [00:39:42]: Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:44]: Yeah. I'm trying to think what else I would say about the transition, I guess how, you know, you're ready to move on. I mean, we kind of covered parts of that, but I would say that you've gone. No contact.

John [00:40:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:01]: For at least 30 days. Probably more than that, but at least 30 days.

John [00:40:06]: Yeah. least a month.

Nicole [00:40:08]: You have a new life established that you're comfortable with.

John [00:40:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:15]: That you're. That has become the norm for you. You have made some kind of a list of the things that you're looking for in another in your next relationship. So you know what they are. And you've identified the reason why the previous relationship failed and have done what growth you can to fix it on your end in the future. And you. Well, I mean, if You've gotten the. No contact, then your feelings about the. That your ex should be resolved. Right. If you've done.

John [00:40:50]: I wouldn't assume that, but.

Nicole [00:40:53]: Yeah, you can't assume it, but that. That should be the other thing. Yeah.

John [00:40:58]: That definitely, I feel like, has to be.

Nicole [00:41:01]: Yeah.

John [00:41:01]: No feeling. Romantic feelings left.

Nicole [00:41:04]: Yeah. I think that that would.

John [00:41:05]: Even friendship, like you said.

Nicole [00:41:06]: Yeah. Would make you ready for the. To move on to another relationship.

John [00:41:11]: Yeah. I would agree with that. And I think, like, again, like, I wouldn't put a time on it because when you meet the time, if. Or when the time comes and you haven't, you don't feel ready, you might beat yourself up and then it might cost you even more time. So I think just by focusing on maybe like you said, like, checking these things off, that you'll know if you're ready or not. Like, I do believe we all have the ability to trust our intuition.

Nicole [00:41:42]: Yeah.

John [00:41:43]: If you don't feel ready, you're not ready. But if you feel like you've done a lot of the stuff that we've talked about and you are ready to move forward, I don't think there's any problem with that. Like, and I don't think anybody should judge anyone for how fast or how slow they move in regards to this.

Nicole [00:42:03]: I agree. I think we covered it. Unless you got something else. All right, well, we still have nothing for. That's. That's good. Yeah. All right, well, that's it for this week. You can follow us online@betterthanperfectpod.com. check out the website, you can subscribe there if you want to get emails when new episodes get published on there. We've got show notes and links and everything. Or send us an email@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com if you've got a question. See you next week.