John: It's hard to find men more masculine than women these days because they've been taking care of themselves on their own for a long time. I'm not trying to [__] on men. You have to bring something to the table, right? And it isn't money. What's more beneficial is allowing her to give you her masculine responsibilities. Weak men create hard times. Hard times create strong men. Strong men create weak times. It's because it is. Don't fight it as hard as they do. We discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other equals one better than perfect relationship. Look at you, you're professional at it now.

Nicole: You're gonna have to do it one of these days.

John: Oh really? Because I was banking on you doing it since you have it memorized. So, the topic for today is why have a traditional male and female, masculine and feminine, man and woman relationship. Why you should have one, right? And I'll define what a traditional relationship is because we did an episode on 50/50, which is probably not the traditional lot people would compare the two between 50/50 and traditional. But traditional isn't just—we're not just talking about money. We're talking about the idea of having a masculine and feminine role in the relationship. The man and the woman, like two distinct roles in the relationship.

Nicole: Exactly, not the same, not interchangeable.

John: Right. So, like, I would describe it as masculine versus feminine.

Nicole: Okay, well, you go ahead.

John: Well, I mean, I'll throw it to you. What are your—do you agree with that?

Nicole: I mean, I agree. I was hoping you weren't going to start with me because I feel like I want to just talk a lot about it. It's like how I grew up. The roles were pretty traditional, besides that my mom worked and my dad worked, which we already talked about in the other episode, that they did more of like the 50/50 financially. But you could definitely tell that my dad was like the man of the house, and then my mom was like the mom. So, you know, I grew up with that and had a very positive male figure in my life. My dad was a very masculine guy. He did all the things that you think dads do, you know, fixes the things and cuts the grass, and you know, takes care of the—you know, just all the guy stuff, grills, builds things. So, he does a lot more things than I can even bring up right now. But so, I grew up with that, and as the oldest daughter, I kind of rebelled against him sometimes, obviously, too, because, you know, I was like the older sister. And normally, when you have siblings, it's like the older brother takes care of the younger sister, the younger. But so, I was the oldest one. I still felt like I needed to be like the protector sort of thing, right? And he was a very strong-willed role model. So, I learned a lot of that from him. And so, occasionally, we butted heads. But yeah, so I really looked up to him. He did a lot of, like I said, the very traditionally masculine things. So, I kind of grew up having that portrayed to me.

And not everybody does. And there was always a part of me, when I got older and thought about when I got married and had kids, that I would want to stay at home, just because my parents both worked, and I rarely got to spend a lot of quality time with them that I would have wanted and that I think is beneficial to children as well, too. We've talked a little bit about this. So, that's what I wanted. Now, was I like, that's the only thing I'm going to have? No, because I was willing to, you know, work and do it the way that my parents did it, maybe not as extreme because they did work a lot. And like my mom worked graveyard shift, and then my dad, you know, did swing shift. So, sometimes, you know, graveyard, sometimes normal hours. So, I think that also made it more of a hectic dynamic rather than like two parents working like a daytime shift. And so, you still get to come home and eat dinner, and you know, a lot of times it wasn't like that. So, I did look at my childhood and be like, these are the things that I would do differently. And it never was like, I don't want a masculine guy, right? It was always like, I still want that. I respect that. But, you know, I do think that being able to stay home would be beneficial to my future children, right? Because of the things that I was lacking because I didn't have that. So, you know, I didn't see the traditional as in like my mom stayed home and my dad took care of everything financially. But, and honestly, I thought that that was something that couldn't really happen as much today either because of how much things cost, right? And I know people still are having kind of an issue with that with our 50/50 episode that we did. And I totally get that. It is really hard financially to only have one income and give your kids the things that they need and even more, you know, like give them a better life than you had with just one income. So, I do get that. But from the masculine and feminine side, I didn't realize how important it was until I met you because you were so masculine, kind of like my dad was. You know, like you could tell that you were more of a manly man than I had necessarily dated. And you had more of the traditional values already. And it just gave off this vibe of like you were going to protect me and take care of me, which is what a father does to his daughter too when she's young, right? Like, he's going to scare off the guys that you bring home, and he's going to fix things for you, and he's going to take care of you. And that's why the father gives away the daughter in the wedding ceremony. It's actually a passing of that responsibility or that role that gets passed on, you know, to protect this woman.

John: Yeah.

Nicole: Well, and another thing I realized when you came along is how the yin and yang of masculine and feminine really go together and harmonize. It's like a feeling that you get. And I know I was more in my masculine when I was single because I had to be. But the second I got to just be feminine and gave you the responsibilities that were more masculine that I had in my life because you wanted them and I trusted you with them, it just allowed us to harmonize, I feel like, in such a way that people don't really get, maybe necessarily, when you have not as strong of a dynamic. And women get to be more in their natural girly, womanly mode that we don't necessarily always get to be in when we have to handle all the things.

John: Exactly, yeah.

John: I was nervous about you asking me first because I'm like, "Let me go. I'm always like, let's go way back." Well, I mean, it's good because I think it's good to have the perspective because the thing is, a lot of women today are very resistant to traditional roles, and surprisingly, even men are now starting to become resistant because of the 50/50 thing. Or maybe sometimes men think that they can be in traditional roles and still be 50-50, which is not really possible, as we kind of talked about.

Nicole: Yeah, but I think a lot of women don't really accept that. And I think that there is a narrative today that's pushed in society that men and women are the same and that it's just societal conditioning that makes men and women different. We don't really have to get into the science of that or the evolutionary biology, but whether it is a societal construct or not, it doesn't really matter. It's just that a relationship works better, or anything works better, when you have two poles. Just like a magnet, you've got a north and south magnet. You take two north magnets, you put them together, right, and they're going to repel each other. There's going to be a conflict of which one is the stronger magnet, and that's what's going to happen. It doesn't even mean necessarily man and woman most of the time, but even in homosexual relationships, there's a masculine and a feminine. If that relationship is going to be a strong one, it has that polarity. And I think that polarity is so important because it is like the yin and the yang. It's something that completes you, and then you feel more connected because if we're both doing the same thing, if we're just the same, then there's no benefit to each other besides a transactional one. Whereas if it's like you have something that I don't have and I have something you don't have, and together, again, synergy, we talk about 1 plus 1 equals four or five, that's super valuable.

John: Yeah, so I think that you know, it is so important even though a lot of people in society kind of frown upon that or maybe they even take it to a religious sort of origin of it. And we don't look at it from a religious right because a lot of religious people, which nothing wrong with whatever you believe, but they take it because it's what the Bible says. And it's like, yeah, that's fine. However, let's look at how it objectively applies. They might think that it works because it's God's way, but they also might not realize that it works because of the differences. And the reason I like the yin and yang example, well, one, besides that the two pieces fit and create this one, which is what a relationship should be.

Nicole: It's this oneness. You have the little circles in the sides, right? And so that is the little piece of masculinity in the femininity and the femininity in the masculinity, which you don't see. That's just one little dot in this part of it. Exactly, but everybody does have those two things. It's just that one should be the main component rather than having them both be equal, like have an equal amount of masculinity and femininity within each person because then it's not a balance. It is more of just a quarter or however you want to see, like a half of you. I say a quarter, you know, for like a one as a couple. But the thing is, what I think women are afraid of the traditional is the traditional traditional. And we've talked about like we're trying to create the modern traditional version of a relationship, not going back to women can't have a bank account, and they can't even have a job, so they just stay in the house and they just need to pick a man, any man, because they can't do anything for themselves. We're not saying let's go back to those times. We're saying let's take the things that worked from that dynamic, which is the femininity and the masculinity being more traditional that way, right, and modernize it in the way that we have.

John: Exactly, yeah. And I think, you know, it's interesting because a lot of times I'll be talking to guys, and they'll be like, "I wish it was like the 1950s or 1960s when women appreciated a man, and it was easier to get a good wife, and you could just..." And I'm always like, "Look, guys, here's the thing. You don't want to be in a relationship. You don't want a woman to marry you or choose you because she's just trying to survive." Yeah, because she just... It's harder now, but rightly so. And it's good because you have to actually outcompete. You actually have to be of value besides just a financial value. You actually have to be that masculine man in order to create that attraction because she actually has to say, "Well, hey, if I can make my own money, if I can get my own job, I can do whatever I want to do in society, and I like, then why do I need you as a man?" And it is because she wants the masculinity in her life. She wants a man. She can't get... Now, women can get a job, they can get the money, they can live on their own, they can do all the things essentially on their own, but the thing that they want is for a man to take over the more masculine roles that they have to do when they're single so that they can embrace their femininity. And we've talked about this. I do think it's trying to swing, at least femininity-wise, a little bit more into embracing that. You know, we have like the self-care and doing girly things just to make you happy, and doing the more feminine things that women used to do in the really traditional times, way back in the days, right? You know, and like dressing up nice for yourself, and baking and cooking, and doing the things that make you happy that are more feminine. Women are doing that on their own, right? But they still have to do the masculine side if they're on their own, so they would even more be able to embrace that if they found a man that they trusted to give those responsibilities to. And now they can go to the park and paint, and you know, bake homemade bread for their family like every week if that's what they want to do. But when you have other things that you have to worry about, like, "Oh well, I got to pay the bills, and I got to go to work every day, and then by the time I get home from work, I'm so tired that I just want to like..."

John: Do my self-care, like my skincare routine, and go to bed. It's like you don't have the time for those things and want the time, but you can't balance it as well because now you're trying to be the yin and yang, but you can't. You're one piece, right? And you're in your masculine because it's hard with the work. And what's interesting, you know, again with modern society today, I'm glad that it is swinging more towards that direction because it was swinging very far to the direction of almost making it like, oh, if you choose to be a stay-at-home mom, then you're a bad person, or like you don't want to work. And it became that thing, whereas it's like, so much of society was pushing women to basically become men, right? Because those are the values that we talk about a lot, people talk about patriarchal society, and it's funny that the solution to it was to make women be men because that system, like men are hierarchical in nature. So, a man wants to have a chain of command, like this guy's above this guy. And women are more egalitarian, right? Or the feminine is more egalitarian, meaning everybody's equal, level playing field, like let's do what's fair. We don't need to have anyone be the winner and someone else be the loser. And so, it's funny that the solution to a kind of patriarchal society would be for women to adopt the male values of hierarchy, which is not good because women don't necessarily want to compete in that space. A lot of women, and a lot of women don't even realize this until they're actually with a masculine man, and they're able to relax in their feminine. Then they realize, oh wow, I don't have to, you know, there's this narrative that society gives you that oh, you got to go and get a job and climb the corporate ladder and do all these things, which are really masculine type of things. Not to say that there's anything wrong with it if you enjoy doing that, but a lot of women are finding that they don't actually enjoy doing that, but they feel like that's what they're supposed to do, right? And so, that's why they're lost in life. And then when they realize, oh no, I could actually get into a relationship where there's a man that's masculine, that takes care of me, that I trust, then I can relax in that feminine and be that. And maybe it's worth talking a little bit about because I think some people think the whole masculine-feminine is a woo-woo concept. It's not real, but like, what is masculine versus what is feminine?

Nicole: Well, I wanted to add a little bit to that because I think that you can still have the yin and yang with a woman working. But I would say ideally, if a woman wants to work, because I'm all for, you know, if you went to school and you got a degree and you love what you do, do it. But I would say even like part-time would allow her to spend time with her children if she has them, allow her to have more of that feminine energy to do what she wants, that is like feminine, and you know, her time, her me time. But still get to work and be involved in the career that she really loves. Like you said, some women, they're just like, I have to do this, and I don't really want to do it. And I do think women are being more vocal about that. Like we've talked about, like you see plenty of TikToks of stay-at-home wives and stay-at-home girlfriends, stay-at-home moms that instead of like how it used to be, like you said, where people would be like, oh, you just don't want to work, or you're lazy, what are you doing? Now people are more embracing that, and even women are like, this is the life that I want. They're actually saying that. So, I do think it's, you know, it's coming a little. I think so. But I'm also trying to say that if you are a woman that wants to work, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that you could probably find a better balance than, you know, just feeling like you have to work all the time. Like, work the amount that fulfills you while also fulfilling your feminine side and your motherly side and things like that, your wifely side. So, I just wanted to throw that in there because I don't think that everyone has to just stay home.

John: Oh yeah, no, I agree with that. Even like, yeah, it's hard to just stay home, like in different ways. I'm not saying like workwise it's hard. I would say more like mentally it can be more challenging just because it's like you're in the same space. You get time to do the things that you want to do, but like your whole life is like relationships, and I value that. I love that. It's hard for me too at times, though, because I'm very sensitive to other people's emotions and things like that. And you know, there's things that I've had to heal and work on and continue to work on because I'm faced with so many triggers, right? From being a parent, like in this parent role, being a wife. Like, I was not those things like a year ago. So, it's constantly learning. So, it's work in other ways where I feel like if you're working in a career outside the home, you're focused on that type of work. Not saying that people don't focus on their internal work, but I'm just saying when you are at home, it's different types of work that you need to focus on. Exactly, it's not necessarily like good or bad, it's just different. And a lot of actually like stay-at-home moms or stay-at-home wives or things like that talk about that, right? Which is also good too. But again, sometimes you get the people who are like, you don't have a job, what problems do you have? And like, don't get me wrong, like I don't have work-related problems, right? But I'm grateful for that. But there are other challenges that you face is all I'm just trying to say.

John: Of course, yeah. And I think that's very true. And again, it's, I think part of it too, and I'll get into the masculine versus the feminine, like what are they, but is that it's, we talked about this in some other episodes, is that there are certain things that as a man in my masculine, it's easier for me to handle. Right, right. And there are certain things that are harder for me to handle that are easier for you to handle. And it's like, it's a synergy. Like, we're working together, you know? And if you see yourself as one, then you don't really think, oh well, men and women, you don't really think, well, he why does he do these things and he gets to do this, and you know, or however you want to see people complain on both sides. Like, why does she get to stay home, or you know, why does he have to be

John: Why does he, why is he the boss, why is he the authority or the leader, you know? And the answer is, if you're thinking in terms of one, those questions don't make any sense at all because it's your will, and it's actually different. You're like, "Wow, I'm so appreciative that he is taking on this stressor for me because it doesn't stress him out, and it gives me this freedom and this peace now." It should be looked at that way that I just described because that is truly what it is. It's hard for me; it's been hard for me when you're like, "Hey, I can handle this. Give me this," and I'm like, "What? No, this is stressful. I'm not giving you this. I don't want to put stress on you," and you're like, "No, I can handle it," and you do handle it, and it does give me more peace in my life. So, that's what it really should be looked at like. But you, I agree with you that some people, it's very like, "Well, why does she get to stay home? Or like, why does he get to tell me what to do?" But the thing is, if you're viewing it that way, you have some other sort of problems that are causing you to fight so hard against this thing.

Nicole: And you can't be feminine as a woman unless I'm taking a lot of that stuff off of you so that you're not burdened with all of these decisions and the stress. And those are the things that, honestly, like I said, as a man, they're easy for me. But then it allows you to be feminine, which then unlocks the thing that's actually valuable to me as a man, which is the nurturing because I need that, you know what I mean? I need the support, the nurturing, the caring that I don't necessarily have, and that I don't have someone else to fill that role for me, which gives me the strength to be able to take on the outside. It's almost like the man is the shield that covers, protects the family, and the woman from the exactly. And so, if that shield isn't up, the softness inside can't be into there. Has to be a softness has to get hard; everyone has to be creative.

John: Yeah, well, you actually made me think about going way back to like tribal days, right? Masculinity is about survival, right? And when a woman is taking on the masculine things like paying her bills so she can survive and having food so she can survive, you're in survival mode, which is masculinity, right? Like back in tribal days, the guy went and got food, and the wives stayed with the other tribe members and took care of the children, and they did, or they made clothes, or they did things like that. Like that is where they got to use their feminine side to really provide for not only her family but the whole tribe community, right? They use their strengths, which was the nurturing and the caring and the home-making or teepee making, I guess you say back then. And the guys went out, and they got the food, and that was the money of that time, right? Like food was what you need to survive, and it was not easy to get. You couldn't just go to the grocery store; you had to go hunt. So like today, making the money is almost like the hunting and the gathering that the man would do, right? And he's providing that shield, he's providing survival for his family with those things, and the woman is, like you said, providing the home and taking care of the kids and caring about the family unit in the ways that she'll do it, right? It's survive and thrive, right? He's the survival; she's the makes you thrive, right? You know, so, but it is important to have those separate roles.

Nicole: And I guess that's where maybe we've kind of already defined some pieces of it, but just for everyone that doesn't understand masculine versus feminine, the way I would define masculine, right, the masculine energy is analytical, is a rock, hard, a rock, right? You know, you can think of a rock like not being swept away by the wind, not emotional, right, analytical. I was just literally thinking of a rock. I'm like, this is the guy rock, yeah, you know, someone you can count on, depend on. No, I know you mean unshifting, and so, and it, you know, seeking to break through obstacles, right, seeking freedom, right? Those are the things that that is masculine, whereas the feminine is sort of the opposite of that, right? The feminine is soft, the feminine is nurturing, the feminine is not thinking about the future but is in the now, in the present moment, that's dancing, enjoying the pleasures of life, you know what I mean? The men's like, "No, we can't, we don't have time for fun, we got to get work done." The feminine's enjoying more playful sort of thing, yeah, and that is, and emotional, right, in the emotional side of things, which neither is good or bad, right? It's like a man. I talked about this in one of my videos about if you just had a masculine world, it would not be a very fun place. It would just be work; it would just be like the Vulcans from Star Trek, where nothing is everything is logical. And so, the man needs some femininity in his life to actually enjoy life, the thriving part of life. And you know, if you had a totally feminine world, if it was just feminine, you wouldn't survive. Everyone would be like, "Oh well, you know, everything's got to be fair, everything got to be equal." There would never be, "Oh, we can't, we can't kill those people over there because, you know, even though we need to survive, like they're just going to, you know." I'm talking about tribal days. I mean, you know, more tribal days, but I'm just saying that you wouldn't have people to make the tough decisions that need to be made sometimes because of that. Because you know, you sometimes do need to be hard in life, and sometimes you need the softness as well. You have to have a balance of both. Both are necessary in order to survive as a species but also in a relationship to survive because you can't just be run everything masculine. And what you see actually, you see relationships that a lot of times today where it's masculine, masculine, right? And a lot of guys set this up, and they don't even realize it, especially a lot of guys that I talk to in personal development because they get so good at developing themselves. They're like, "I'm going to the gym, I'm working on my business, I wake up at 5:40 every morning, I do my things, I plan out my day," right? And then they meet a girl, and they're like, "All right, I got a buddy now," you know? And they start treating her like a buddy instead of a woman, instead of feminine. And so, like, "Okay, we're going to wake up at 5:40 in the morning, and we're going to write down our to-do list, and we're going to work on our businesses together," and all these things, and you know, go to the gym, right? And a lot of times, the woman kind of goes along with that.

John: Then you know their sex life is gone because there's no attraction anymore because they're the same. There's no polarization; they're the same. And so, they lose attraction for each other, they start to fight, they start to have problems, or they just become best friends, and there's no actual sexual attraction, there's no chemistry. Yeah, and that's necessary. It needs to be there. That's what holds people together, that connection, which is the polarity. I think more so women resist the idea.

Nicole: Right, yeah. No man is going to tell me what to do. I can... I don't need a leader. In fact, I just heard one of my coaching clients had a discussion with his ex-girlfriend. She said, "I don't need a leader." Why do you think that women are so opposed to this kind of idea of a man?

John: They don't respect the man enough, or they think that they know more than the man, and sometimes they do. Yeah, but sometimes you need to realize that that man's probably not for you then. Like, unless you want to be the masculine and you want a feminine guy, but that normally isn't a very good dynamic just because it's not what naturally occurs. Right? So, like, some people make that work, some people sure, because it is that polarity like you talked about. But it is a little off just because it's not the natural responses. It's like a woman learned to be more masculine, and a guy learned to be more feminine, and so it's but it's not like their natural way that they want to be. Like, do they exist still in that state? Yes, because that's what they know, and you know, a lot of people exist in just what they know and what they're comfortable with now, even if it's not the best for them.

Nicole: Right. So, like, I think that ultimately if a woman doesn't respect your leadership or like respect you as the masculine part of the relationship, she might still be operating from a just really highly masculine place, and your masculinity is not overpowering hers. Because I was pretty masculine before you came along, but you overpowered that, and to a point where not like disrespectfully, not like, you know, in any other way besides me being like, "Wow, like he is a man, he knows what he's doing. I trust that he knows what he's doing." Is there still times where I feel like I might know a better solution to a problem we're having? Sure, but you know, we've had those discussions, and we've worked through those sort of things. But at the end of the day, I listen to you, and I take it. That's the key, and women are afraid of that. That's what I think they're afraid of.

John: Right. They don't want some guy to be like, "I'm the leader, you're going to do this." And a lot of men that are confused about masculinity, right, they think, "Okay, I just need to tell her what to do, or I need to be bossy. I need to be an asshole. I need to, you know, just tell her to do it, and she needs to just do it." That's not how it works. You've talked about the captain of the ship thing. And so, a woman's not going to respect you and trust you if she feels like she's just, you're her manager, like or like you're just telling her what to do. That's not the same as a leader. Lead servant leadership, right? Like, they want somebody to just do whatever they want, and that's why those guys are like, "Why can't we go back to the 50s, the 40s?" You know, like a woman was doing whatever a man said because she could not go get a job, she had no money, she had nothing. So, she did. They were more submissive, but it wasn't because she wanted to; it's because she needed to survive. Right? And the difference is a woman will want to submit to you and follow your leadership if she feels like you can handle life better than she's already doing it. And the thing is that women do have jobs now; they can do a lot of the stuff like get a job, have a bank account, you know, vote now. So, men have to bring more to a woman's table.

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely, than back in the day because back in the day, if you had a job, you were like, you won. Exactly. Yeah, that's why so many people too got married so quickly because it's like, "Oh, he has a job. He's going to like take care. Okay, cool. Yeah, let me wife him up real quick." So that I don't have to worry about being homeless or whatever women had to worry about back then because they just couldn't have a job, they couldn't make their own money. So, I think that now men have to kind of step up and prove that they have more to give to a woman, right, than just financial security. Like, a woman will like value that, and some women, that's all they value still, right, which is, I don't think the right way to be at all either. But now that a woman can have her own job and survive, right, like now she's the hunter-gatherer and the women of the tribe. A man has to bring something else, right? And so, it should be that masculine energy. It should be that he is so competent, masculine, and competent, and like knows what he's doing in those areas that she can now give you those masculine responsibilities that she has, right? And that a lot of times is financial. It is, you know, maybe taking on stressors of hers that men can handle, making decisions, right, making a decision that she doesn't have to be like, "Oh, he's going to, you know, go." You know, women can be worried that men are going to spend money on stupid things too. So, it's like, you know, being like, can he even handle his finances? We were talking about this the other day that like if a man can't handle his finances, right, I would tell a woman, leave.

John: Oh, absolutely, yeah. Like, because what is he going to do? You're going to take him on, you've learned to handle your finances, right? And now you're going to be in charge of the finances. We were actually at the ballet, The Nutcracker, a few weeks ago, and this woman behind us is talking about how she like plans the dates, she manages their money, you know, all this stuff, and I just wanted to turn around and be like, "Leave us. We can help you. Here's our business card." Yeah, but you know, we didn't. But still, it's like, so kind of like we were talking about with the marriage, it's like at this point, men have to provide something that a woman doesn't have, and most women want to be feminine, and most women want a masculine man to take over those things so she can embrace her femininity more. And he can't be emotional either because that has to bring that to the table too, right? Because she has to be able to depend on his analytical mind, that he's not going to lose his shit and just start, you know, freaking out. You know, because she might be freaking out. Someone's got to not be freaking out; it's got to be the guy. And that's not to say you can't talk about like when you have problems and like things like that, but I do agree with that.

Nicole: Like as a woman, you need a man. Okay, let's hear it. So, there was a poor bunny in our yard. Luckily, I was not at home, but still, even if I had been at home, right, John sends me this video of this bird pecking this baby bunny's head, and it was like, I guess, had a gash in its side too. So, it obviously wasn't going to survive. And so, we're having this real-time conversation. He's like, "I have to go take care of this." And I was like, "Thank God I'm not there because I don't even want to see this." And he had to chop the baby bunny's head off. And like, he did it to put it out of its misery. I understand that, and that is the right thing. However, even though I know it's the right thing for the bunny, I don't think I could have done that. Yeah, like because of the feminine side of me is like, wants to cry even just thinking about it. But like, the fact that you were there to do that was the right thing to do that I don't think I could have done.

John: And for me, it's not like I didn't have any sorrow. It was pretty easy for me to do. It wasn't hard. You know, I didn't think about it. For you to cut off those emotions that maybe would build up for the actual situation, but you would be like, "I need to do this, so it's the right thing because it's the mission. It has to be done." You know what I mean? That's what. And that's the difference, you know, the masculine versus the feminine. And like I said, neither is good nor bad. It's that you don't want to be someone that can just chop off baby bunny's heads with no care at all and be that kind, you know, just serial killer. But that's where the feminine needs to be in your life as well. You need a woman that brings the feminine energy to relax, chill out a little bit, man, like, you know, have some fun.

Nicole: Exactly, right. So, I think that it is really important. But I would say that, okay, so what you described with women, with the resistance that they have, you're saying they need a masculine man. And I'll say real quick about that. It is like a magnet. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure commenters will, but I'm almost certain of this. There's a thing called magnetic induction. Okay, and what magnetic induction is, if you take a North Pole magnet and another North Pole magnet, okay, and one is way stronger than the other, and you bring this and you push them together, this weaker magnet will actually flip poles and will become a South Pole magnet. Now, not you don't have to turn it, it will just flip. Its magnetic field will flip, just like the Earth's magnetic field is about to flip. And we're going to all, I remember this vividly in school. And so then, the north magnet will become a South magnet. And so, I think that there's a lot of masculine women, which they have to be in some degree if they're on their own, but they're not going to be as masculine as a masculine man because that's not their calling, natural way. Yeah, a masculine man comes in, and this is for the men out there that are like, "I can't find a feminine woman." Make one, in the sense that if you are in your masculine and you be the man, even if you encounter a woman that's a total feminist and is very much anti-femininity, it's those two words. But you know, if you're a strong masculine guy, she may flip over and become more feminine in your presence and feel more safe. And it's like, like we talked about, if you don't have the masculinity as the outer shield, then the soft side has to be hard, exactly, to protect it. And so, it might take a little bit of time to flip a masculine woman into a more feminine woman, but you can do it. She will let the shell down when she realizes it's safe. It's so important for a man to be safe, right, like, and a woman to feel safe with a man because otherwise, there's no benefit of her having a man. Then she's just taking on more risk if she has a man that's not safe. Right. And I'm not saying that women don't do that. Like, you know, some women don't pick the best guys to be with, and it ends up being more of a hassle on her life than a benefit. But the thing is that there has to be that safety for her to let down her shield and be the soft person that she is because it's not worth putting the shield down and getting hurt and bombarded. And then that just pushes you more and more to the jaded side, which, like, I was that person too. And I know a lot of women that are jaded like that too. And it's understandable. I mean, like, they've been burned. And it is hard to find a really masculine man. And like you said, most women are masculinized these days, in one way or another, as they are going to be if they're on their own, right. But I don't know if there's enough of those really masculine men that can transform these women. And so, that's why it's harder on everybody. Like, women can't find the more masculine guys that they are really looking for to trust, put their trust in, and be safe with. And then guys, you know, they're like, "Well, this woman's not feminine." But she can't be until she has that security.

John: Exactly. And guys are confused because society sort of has been emasculating men for a long time now, telling, by telling men that their masculinity is toxic, by saying that. I think there are some toxic behaviors.

Nicole: Andre Tate.

John: Well, there's toxic behavior, toxic people. And yeah, and it's not a masculine or feminine thing, right. But a lot of the core attributes that a lot of young boys and men have, a lot of times in society, the narrative has been that those are not good things. And so, they're not encouraged in a positive direction of masculinity.

Nicole: Right. Well, I think too, why you don't hear like toxic femininity is because, like you said, masculinity is a little more dangerous. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, in nature, like going back to the tribal thing, like you're going out and hunting and killing something, right. Like a woman is like taking care of children. So, there's not like, yes, there are things that you can do wrong in femininity, and there are things that you can really mess up, like can really mess up a child, and that is bad. But it's not like life or death, usually in those instances, whereas manly man tasks are a little bit more like life or death. And so, it's a little bit more dangerous for a man to be like, I guess, toxic masculinity. And I only say that, like, I say that in the sense of kind of like what I mentioned before, where it's like just some guy who's like, "You need to do this, and like, don't ask questions, and just do it."

John: It's more from a misunderstanding of what masculinity is, and then people call it toxic.

Nicole: Exactly, yeah. It comes down to doing things in the right way. Masculinity can be aggressive and dangerous, yes, but that doesn't mean it's bad or wrong. Sometimes that aggressiveness and dangerousness is necessary, in certain circumstances. But I think some people get mixed up too, like when you actually need to be aggressive and assertive.

John: Exactly. And there's also this thing that's been happening recently where some women, professing femininity, are attacking women, which is a very masculine thing to do. They turn a lot of women off to femininity because they say things like, "If you're a wife, you need to be doing this," and it's similar to the narrative some angry men have.

Nicole: Those angry men eat that up. To a degree, sometimes the things they're saying are not entirely incorrect. They're expressing the frustrations of men but not doing anything to help women become more feminine by attacking them. Being harsh and abrasive is a more masculine trait, whereas being soft, nurturing, and a bit more meek is a more feminine trait.

John: So, there's still a lot of women that don't even believe what you're saying when you say they just need to find a masculine man because they're like, "I don't even want a masculine man. I don't need one. I don't believe in masculinity."

Nicole: From your perspective, being a woman that was more in her masculine, probably thought, "I don't just want an equal partner, not a masculine man. I don't need that." What makes you change that viewpoint? Like, what is the benefit? How do you feel that it's better to be able to be in your feminine rather than what you thought before?

John: I mean, I do think it's what I described. Women who are in their masculine, if they want to find a masculine guy, need to realize they need to find somebody very masculine that they trust, that is going to provide them security in multiple ways. I never was really any different until you came along, and you didn't force me.

Nicole: So, you're saying, just to interject real quick, we can't make the logical argument to these women. No matter what we say, if we say it's better to be feminine, they're not going to believe it until they actually experience it. I didn't buy it. I thought it was just being submissive, just listening to what a guy said, until you came along. You were masculine but also listened to me and valued the intelligence that I had, the feminine aspects of me that I had to kind of put on the back burner because I was trying to survive.

John: Which is a more masculine thing, like we've talked about. And yeah, I wish I could tell women there would be something I could tell them, but having been that woman, all I can tell women is that they need to really look for a masculine guy that they trust and that gives them some sort of security.

Nicole: He doesn't have to pay all the bills. You can work, but you have to put your 100% trust in him, or else it's not going to work. I can't really describe how I knew when I met you that I had that instantly because trust is something that you don't want to just give 100% to somebody that you're on a first date with. But I felt like there were things, obviously, you were acting in a masculine way, I could tell you were a masculine guy, you were genuinely involved in the conversation with me. You would inform me in a way that wasn't belittling. I feel like women value that too, especially intelligent women. They don't want to be talked down to.

John: And that's where also the captain of the ship thing is important. Men need to realize it's not just bossing people around. It's taking into consideration the people on your ship and leading them in a way that you believe is the best. Women just have to experience it because it's really hard to get out of that, and it's really hard for a woman to make a man masculine.

Nicole: There are some things I think you can do to encourage the masculine attributes that the man is displaying. We should probably do an episode on how to be masculine in a relationship, how to be feminine in a relationship. I want to tell you that there's another way, but just having been that woman, that's what I want women listening to this to realize. I was that woman, right to my core. It really is like a trust thing, and your masculinity overpowered mine. Like I said, I looked up to my dad as a role model, so I had probably even a little bit more masculinity. Fathers tend to raise their daughters to be more because they're trying to teach them survival traits and logical things, like how to change a tire in their car, which is important. But sometimes, it also ends up being good because then women won't just go and date some guy because he can change your oil or something. There is a benefit.

John: But the thing is, if she's masculine, he has to overpower hers exactly. And that will really only happen if—

Nicole: You have to embody that because women can tell if you're a true man or not. And the thing is, a woman always has to choose to submit to you. You can't make her; you can't dominate her. She chooses to submit to you. You show dominance; you don't dominate her. And the only way she's going to submit to you by choice is if she trusts you.

John: Right. And just to speak to our situation, how did I act with you when we first met?

Nicole: You treated me in the exact same way that you treat me now. Even when I just barely knew you because I would do this just for any woman. I would want to protect, want to take care of, pick up the bill, do the thing, you know what I mean? Treat you with respect, make sure that you're treated like a woman and you feel like you're being treated like a woman and feminine.

John: Right. And I didn't try and force you to be you know. And even I think for a lot of guys, when a woman is putting up this resistance, like "Oh, don't open the door for me," you don't get razzled by that. You just still do what you're going to do as a man. And if she wants to walk off on the date because you open the car door for her, then hey, that's fine. Don't get upset about it. Let her still be a gentleman, you know? Whatever, wish her a good night and say that's okay.

Nicole: And that is really being masculine, right? Because you're not being affected by these things. Again, that's where it has to be genuine, which I think is important because you can't just go around opening doors and then come back and go on the internet and be like, "I opened your door, and she hates me." It's like, okay, you opened the door for the wrong reason. You're not truly embodying being a gentleman, being a man. You're just doing the motions.

John: Right. And a woman will test you. She might need to test a man to push back and see. So, if you open the door for her and she says, "Oh, I don't need a man to open the door," are you now going to be like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I won't do it again," or are you going to say, "Well, you know, I open doors for women. That's what I do"?

Nicole: And that again, that's not a mean thing. It's not being an asshole to say that. It's just being yourself and saying, "I'm not going to compromise who I am," but doing it in a respectful way. Then maybe she's like, "Oh, okay, well maybe I'll let you open the door for me." She should warm up if you're doing it for the right reason. But she's going to test you in some way because the feminine is always testing the masculine, by the way, right? To see, is he still strong? Is he still hard? Is he going to—it goes back to the tribe days. It's like, are you going to actually kill this deer when you see it out? Like, are you going to bring food home? It's the same thing. You have to kind of do a little testing to be like, is he just going to let me be the masculine one? Is he going to do whatever I say? Is he ever going to say no? Is he ever going to disagree with me?

John: Right. Or is he just people-pleasing?

Nicole: Exactly. So, you know, guys can be chameleons in the sense that they just want one thing, and they'll do whatever they can do to get that thing. Women know that, and unfortunately, those behaviors actually make sure that they're not going to get that thing because women are a little bit smarter than that. They see when you're trying to do that thing. But the masculine, you know, the feminine is going to test the masculine.

John: Yeah. Well, did we miss anything?

Nicole: I think we—I mean, there's a lot to it. The only thing I would say, like the last thing I would say, is that, you know, we talked a lot about women embracing the feminine, some of the benefits for that in their relationship. But I will say to men, you know, being masculine in a relationship because a lot of guys are still starting to get this 50/50 mindset. And well, if women want this, it should be fair. They're kind of getting more feminine because they're like, "Well, why can't I stay at home?" Like, they want the benefits of the feminine side as well and to try to be the man of the house at the same time.

John: Exactly. And I hear them say all the time, "It's like, well, you never blame women for anything." Like, women are responsible for their own behavior, which they are. But if you're the man, you're responsible for everybody in the household's behavior. Now, you can't always control their behavior, but you're still ultimately responsible. You still have to hold yourself in charge.

Nicole: Yeah, if you're going to be the captain of the ship and someone in your crew does something wrong and jeopardizes the ship, it's not their fault; it's your fault. You have to deal with that person or deal with the situation and hopefully make sure that doesn't happen again, or, you know, figure out where did you go wrong with not giving the correct instruction or doing things in the right way.

John: So, it's like, think of it like a business, right? Like, the man should be the business, and the woman is this employee. This is an example, I know people get upset, but it's fine. You go to a restaurant, and, you know, Britney, the waitress, is horrible. Are they going to come to the restaurant and just not request Britney? No, they're going to go on the restaurant's Google review and not come back because of Britney.

Nicole: Right. So, the thing is, like, the business takes the hit even though it was this one employee. Like, the business is not going to be like, "No, it was just Britney." Britney's probably going to get fired, yeah, but they're not going to throw like, you can't just pinpoint it on her. It becomes the business as a whole responsibility because they hired her.

John: So, it is a man's responsibility because he married her; he chose her.

Nicole: Exactly. That's it. That's what it comes down to because that's what I tell guys all the time. They're like, "Oh, well, this, you know, my girlfriend, my wife did this to me, this, that." I'm like, "Well, I mean, one of two things: You either chose wrong, which is still your fault, or you didn't give her the right instruction or encouragement or treat her in the right way or training to, you know, to how someone should treat you."

John: And that's what happened, right? You know what I mean? Like, you did something wrong, or when she first exhibited some of this behavior, you didn't end the relationship. So somehow, you still have to take responsibility as a man and realize that. And again, if you're the leader and she's following your lead, she's following your emotional lead, she's following the things that you do, then hey, then you got to take responsibility. And that's the thing, you know, and it is hard. I think that the last thing about it is like, because I think if a lot of women are like, "Oh yeah, I do believe in traditional relationships, the new traditional." It's hard. It is hard to find men that are strong men. I'm not trying to, you know, right on men. It is hard, right? And like I said, it's hard to find men more masculine than women are these days because they've been taking care of themselves on their own for a long time. So like I said, you have to bring something to the table, right? And it isn't money, right? Like yeah, that should be something that you do bring, right, in one way or another, but it's security in other ways, right? It's your masculine presence. It is being, it's allowing her what's more beneficial is allowing her to give you her masculine responsibilities, and you lean on her to take care of things that she can provide better than you could on your own.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And we need more strong men, you know. It's that whole, what's the saying? You know, "Weak men create hard times, hard times create strong men, strong men create weak times." You know, like it's because it is a cycle. It's because not fight it as hard as they do. Like, if you found one that you trust, like obviously, if you don't trust him, if you're not willing to put your masculine responsibilities in his hands, he's not the one for you. But if you find a good guy, he treats you well, you respect his masculine authority, and you can give him those responsibilities so that you could be more feminine, don't try to resist it. Like, and if anything, you should feel somewhat, I'm not saying like an instant relief and relax into your femininity. I felt that, right? But you should feel some sort of shift. Like, you should feel more soft and more vulnerable in some way when you've found a guy that you're like, "Okay, he can handle this. He's masculine enough that I can be softer and more vulnerable."

John: And men have to, you have to not be afraid to scare away women. And by you, you have to be masculine because I think a lot of guys are afraid. They're like, "Oh, she would never go for that," or that, you know, there's this thing that was in the '90s sitcoms or 2000 sitcoms where it's like, "She's the boss." It's like, "Happy wife, happy life," like all these sort of things. Which "happy wife, happy life" is, I mean, still true, but the way that it's used is to be like, just do whatever she wants, and that does not actually make a woman happy, right?

Nicole: Right.

John: So, but there's a lot of guys that defer, like, "Oh, who wears the pants? She wears the pants. Let me go ask the boss," right? These kinds of things that a lot of men have adopted into their psyche, and they get married, and they're like, "Alright, well, you know, let the woman be in charge of me." They lose their, they put their balls in a jar, give it to her, and that's not the way to be as a man. Like, you have to, a lot of guys, and the reason why they do this is because they like peace, right? And so, they don't, they're like passive. It's like, it's not really peace because eventually, too, he's going to have some resentments because he's just, or he's checking out, and he's numb, right? But or he becomes real feminine. He becomes feminine in that case, and she becomes masculine, and even more so masculine, right? Because he is, he is basically deferring to her, and she becomes the, just like we're saying, that at the ballet, right? That's the situation.

Nicole: Yeah, and she was tired. That woman was complaining about it. Like, she didn't want to do that. So, you do have to step up as a man, and you have to insist that you are going to be masculine and be masculine. And don't fear, in a respectful way. Like again, I feel like men get confused on, don't bear away from conflict and just let a woman have whatever she wants or have her way all the time or let her make the decision because you're afraid of conflict. You have to deal with the conflict in a proper way because a lot of guys, they're just like, "I just want to have peace." And so, they'll say, "Yes dear," because that's the more peaceful answer than really speaking.

John: Exactly. So, alright, a whole another episode. Yeah, do one on how to be masculine, how to be feminine in a relationship because I think that's important. So, yeah.

Nicole: Alright, your thing for today, or like this week, that's hard. I mean, I think we had some conversations about, like again, I guess kind of goes with this, like trust, right?

John: Yeah, like we obviously trust each other. We got married, but sometimes, you know, our anxiety or intrusive thoughts can be like, "Well, what about this?" Especially when you're as close to as we are.

Nicole: Yeah, like one little thing could make you be like, "Oh my God, he didn't tell me he loves me this morning, and so he hates me, and so is he going to leave me?" Like, even though it's not logical, it's like those things can still happen. And what we really need to fall back on always is the trust and give each other the benefit of the doubt. Not that we don't do that, but I'm just saying that we realized that when those intrusive thoughts creep in, you got to be like, "No, like, that's not reality. I trust this person. That's not happening."

John: Yeah, like, and I do this all the time. Like, my intrusive thoughts are exactly like what I just said. And I feel like women have that more so, but you were kind of struggling with some intrusive thoughts this week.

Nicole: And so, I constructed a whole timeline that didn't exist. You know, I mean, it was just my mind spiraling into, you know, and like we're talking about, part of it is just because I trust you so much that I was like, "Am I blind, you know?"

John: You know, it's such a shock, a scare, and your mind can go into that.

Nicole: So, I messed up.

John: No, but it was good because I got, I was in your shoes, right? Like, from, you know, like, "Would you love me if I'm a worm?" Like, that's like a dumb example, but like, I am the one with these stories that my brain has created because it's gone like on this anxious spiral, and I have to come to you, and you're like, "How did you even get here?" But I was on the side of it, right, this time, and it was good for me because I'm like, "I don't want to do this to you," like even though I'm not trying to, it's my anxiety brain, sure, that like.

John: Being on the other side of it though has helped me realize that the trust needs to be over those thoughts because normally the thoughts are so loud. I try to push them down, and then they're louder, and that's when they spiral, when they really take over. You got to experience the thoughts taking over and going on this Joy Ride of worry and anxiety. But the thing is, we got married for a reason. We went through stuff when we first got together, and you know, we've overcome a lot of stuff. We wouldn't have gotten married if we didn't trust each other. So, we just need to lean on that in those moments where our mind is freaking out. And like I said, I think our minds freak out more than necessarily other people's because we're so close. We spend literally every day together, besides when you're working. We're always together, we're always doing something, we enjoy each other's company. So, I think it just makes the little things, like I said, like oh, he didn't bring me coffee this morning, he normally brings me coffee, is like an avalanche of anxiety. Whereas, like, other people would not even, that would not even show up on their radar.

Nicole: Yeah, it's like we forget that we're two separate people, right? And then if you have some kind of event that makes you realize that oh, we don't have the exact same mind, then you freak out a little bit about that because now you're just like, oh wait a minute, I didn't know because you're just used to being synced up all the time, I guess how I describe it. But yeah, and I mean, when you have something you're really afraid of losing, it makes it a lot easier for that fear to come in and the anxiety to try to be like, oh well, this might be happening, or you should do this, and like, you know, what if he has this whole other life that you don't know about. So, it's like, yeah, that is a very real thing. The fear of losing one another can almost cause you to do that, you know, or get to a point where you might lose each other. So, that's why it's so, not that we were anywhere near that point, but I'm just saying that if you let that go, right, you have to rely on the trust because you know that that's the truth and that's the core of it, and that will help defeat all the anxiety and worries and fear that pops up into your head because you have something so valuable.

John: All right, well, all right, good job, we did it. See you next week. We're so awkward.