John: I literally lost millions of dollars in a divorce, right? Like, it's true I can earn that back. I still got married without a prenuptial agreement because I'm still saying, like, if you're going to trust me enough to use your best years on me, beyond the perfect, we discovered through our flaws we complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault we find no way. Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast in the Maldives, not the males, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole: That's right, that's right, that's right. So, as you may have guessed, we're still in the Maldives. We've been here for three weeks. Well, not in specific, but we've been gone for three weeks. So, we did record three remote episodes. You know, probably last week's episode, if it got published, there was a slight technical difficulty.

John: So, yeah, what do you mean, if it got published? Because I don't know what's... I mean, I hope the audio on these things, but yeah, that was... We'll see. That's the thing about time traveling; you can't predict the past. Figure out what that means. We'll leave you with that because the past hasn't happened yet. So, but yeah, so we're at our second Over the Water Villa. As you can tell, we're not in the actual water this time because it is too rough; it's a little bit dangerous. But they have this nice infinity pool, and there's some fish in there. There's a Dory fish. I don't know what the official name is for that kind of fish, but the fish that Dory is in Finding Nemo.

Nicole: But yeah, we're at the Alila Maldives Resort. Yes, it's a Hyatt property, and uh, yeah, it's really nice. This one, actually, we stayed at the beach bungalow, which is over there. They're like, it has its own secluded beach. It's pretty cool. It's very nice. You kind of have your own private pool. It's more... I mean, these are pretty private, but it's real private over there, you know? So, it was a different layout for us to try out, but I think that we figured out we enjoy the over-the-water ones.

John: Yeah, the over-the... I mean, we made the most of the beach villa, if you know what I mean, but the over-the-water, it's hard to beat this, you know? And right now, it's not as beautiful because it's not as sunny of a day, but the sun's coming out more. But it's a little more cloudy, though. But we've had good weather despite it being the monsoon season. Everybody here's like, it's normally raining like every day, and you only get like two days of sunshine. When we've only really had like two days of all-day rain in the whole time we've been in the Maldives.

Nicole: No, we got lucky for sure. It's been nice. So, but yeah, it would have been nice if we could, like, here we can't get in the water so much because, as you can see, those big waves. So, you can hear, probably terrifying when you're trying to sleep.

John: Yeah, the whole place shakes as the wave hits it. So, we're just right where the waves break on the reef, I think, because there's rocks here. So, it's not normally this rough, though. It's because it is the monsoon season, and the wind is coming from that direction. So, but yeah, I got... There, we have a ladder over there. You might not be able to see it, but we'll put a clip in or something. But you know, I was standing on the ladder trying to get in the water, and it's... You got to dodge the waves, so you can't... The ladder's also slippery.

Nicole: Yeah, the ladder's slippery. And our neighbors, their ladder got blown into... We woke up this morning, and there's like a ladder in the... We were like, "What is that?" And then I looked, and I was like, "Oh, they don't have a ladder." That's my princess better out, Lin in Shrek always says. But yeah, so their ladder was in the water, but they took care of that. But it's really nice. It's really nice here. We can't complain. It's sad that we're leaving today.

John: Can you believe we're leaving today? Like, we're leaving today. It's crazy. But we get to enjoy the morning time. We did Pilates.

Nicole: I took... Oh my gosh, I'm like burping. I got hiccups. What's going on with me? I made John do Pilates with me this morning.

John: Yeah, and it was hard. It was intense for sure. It was actually hard because it was outside, and it was humid.

Nicole: I'm going to have the hiccups this whole episode, I fear.

John: That's all right. But yeah, no, it's been amazing. It's like incredible. I don't want to leave. We're just going to stay here at the pool. They'll be knocking on the door. They're like, "Okay, it's time to get the luggage." They're like, "They're not answering, but I can hear them in the back. They're on a live stream on TikTok."

Nicole: Yeah, like, they're not leaving. We've done some live streams because it's just so beautiful. Like, why not? The water is amazing. Yeah, we wish we got to snorkel a little bit more here, but yeah, it just wasn't in the cards. But that's okay. We tried to go out to one of the beaches there, but it was just the water was too murky. But yeah, at the other place, though, we definitely got in the water and were able to...

John: Yeah, so we don't feel like we're going home with any regrets.

Nicole: I definitely would have... I mean, if we were only here, if this is the only place, I would have definitely requested a bungalow that's closer, so on the other side, so we could get in the water. But I mean, this was fine because we had already been in the water, and this is nice out here.

John: So, yeah, it's still nice. Like, when we were at the other resort, and we had our over-the-water villa, they didn't have a pool, except in like a select few, and John was like, "Why would you need a pool? You have the water." And then we get here, and we're like, "Thank God this one has a pool," because we feel like we're in the water, in the ocean, because we can just look over, and we can see down. It's very clear, but we're not, obviously. And so that way, we can still feel like we're in the water without being in the water. Because also, when we tried to snorkel here earlier at the shore, it's very murky, so John couldn't even see anything when he went in to investigate.

Nicole: Hold this for a second.

John: What am I, your personal assistant? Hold this, please.

Nicole: You don't want to wash off all your sunscreen though. We normally tan people, and we were like, "Oh, we got a base tan now, we should be good." Wrong. No, we're at the Equator, so we're covered in sunscreen 30, and we got this tan. I put it on every day. John, maybe he's done most every day, but he missed his arms yesterday, and they're looking a little crispy. They're not too bad though, 'cause I got the aloe on there. But anyway, I think that's probably enough of the small talk. I'm done with this conversation.

John: Okay, you didn't take the hint. So, the topic for today, what we were going to say, it's kind of like the first. I mean, I think our first episode was why guys should get married, right? But this one is more, it's still why guys, like what a man gets out of marriage, right? And so, the idea is like, this is geared towards not trying to convince men to get married so much, right? Although there's a piece of that, but I think it's both.

Nicole: Yeah, it's but also talking to women, 'cause we saw a TikTok from a woman that was talking about the subject, and it was kind of more appealing to women. This is why a man would want to get married, this is what he's missing out on, which I thought that was a great, you know, 'cause we didn't really talk about that aspect as much, I think, in the first episode we did.

John: Right. So, why should a man get married?

Nicole: You're cutting me off. You're holding my stuff, and now you're like, "Go ahead, do the episode." Well, I mean, I think it is for both. It was a woman talking, so yeah, maybe it was geared more towards women, but I think men need to hear the message that we're going to explain. They need to hear the message because they have lost sight in the value in marriage and what they actually get. And I understand from their perspective too, because, you know, either they've created an environment or a woman has created an environment that's hostile and chaotic, and most of the time, it's both people creating that environment. So, they don't know what they're getting, and even if they're getting a little bit of what we're going to talk about, they don't see the value in it. And then women, they have lost sight of it because, as a woman, I feel like we've been conditioned to be like, "Okay, what do you bring to the table?" by men, by society. Like, go get your own job, get your own money. And so, when women go on a date, they're like, "This is, I got my own money. I'm doing my own thing. I can, you know, I'm independent. I can handle myself." And they think that that's what men want, but it's the feminine aspects that we're going to talk about that men value, and women should be empowered by and should put on the forefront.

John: And I was going to say, that's what feminine men want, right? Feminine men do want the woman to help provide for them.

Nicole: But, I mean, it might be good to actually talk about, to start off by talking about what are the things that are not a benefit to a man. Like, what a man is not looking for, why should a man not get married, essentially. So, what I'm saying is, what a woman's not providing, that a man needs, which is, or what does a woman not need to provide to a man, like, that's not going to benefit him.

John: Exactly, that's what I'm trying to say. So, it's kind of hard to word it, but for example, cooking. What does he value, right? So, making money, she doesn't need to make money, right? That's not, men, though 50/50 guys might say, that a man's not going to get married because she makes money.

Nicole: That's true.

John: That's right. He doesn't need to get married to a woman because she cooks and cleans. I think this is one of the things guys are like, "Oh, well, she needs to cook and clean for me." No, it's not that. It's the meaning behind that, right? Like, why she would do that. But you can have someone, you can cook for yourself, you can pay for someone. Especially we're talking, I guess we're talking really successful men, men that women would want to marry. If you're successful, you normally are a little bit more manly and masculine.

Nicole: Right.

John: So, we're talking about the kind of men that women would want to marry. So, that man, he's like, "I could hire a chef. I can use Uber Eats. I don't need someone. Even we have maid service, right? Like, don't need that stuff." So, then it's like, then next on the list comes sex. And again, sex, if you're a successful guy, that shouldn't be a problem for you. You can get that, you know, there are multiple ways, right? Whether you're paying for it or, you know, hopefully, you're not paying for it. But if you know, I'm just saying, don't do that.

Nicole: Yeah.

John: But you should be able to have success. I doubt you're paying for that. I mean, some guys still are. There's like this whole thing that that guy did, the writer, he's usually got good stuff, but he did like a three-part series on that, kind of explained. But I disagree with it still. But there are a lot of successful guys, unfortunately, that are. He also said he wouldn't do it, and he's successful, but he gave the rationale for why guys would do that, which again, you can watch it and see what you think. But my point is, is that that's not the bonus. So then, what else does a woman have?

Nicole: Right. And so, that's where we get to, I think, the message from that TikTok, which was that he can't get love, real love, like an admiration and desire, yes, and companionship.

John: Right, like that true intimacy. Like, he can't get that from a roommate, or even paying somebody.

Nicole: Right. You can't pay someone for that. So, that's the thing, that's the real, well, and the nurturing. She said also, like the nurturing, you know, the softer side of women that women have hidden away because they're afraid to present that, and men take advantage of it, or that not be the right person, or things like that. But there is power in knowing that those things are valuable. And women have lost that, and men have also lost that. And men have lost it because, one, they don't see it that often 'cause women have hid it away, 'cause they're afraid to show that vulnerable side. It's vulnerability. And she might have even said that too, is like, it's something that needs to be protected. And that's why in one of the other episodes we talked about how a woman needs to feel safe, because the softer side of femininity needs a safe space to exist.

John: Exactly. And that's why, yes, women can.

John: Do that on their own, like they can be feminine on their own, but it's harder because they can only really do it in the safe confines of their home, not really necessarily too much in public, right? Sort of thing. And they're not going to do it right off the bat with a man, like full-blown. I'm not saying don't be feminine when you go on a date, but you know, as a woman, you have to be cautious when you're getting to know somebody. You don't know what's going to happen, and you know, so it's a balance. It's a balance for women. But I feel like society has messed both men and women up where men don't value femininity and the vulnerability and the nurturing and the caring and the love, right? 'Cause even we've done episodes where we're like, men need respect and women need love, but at the end of the day, both people need both. It's just that men need respect more, higher on the pedestal, and women need love higher on the pedestal. But both of those things have to be there because, like you said, if there's not love, and you can go find a woman for a night or whatever, and you don't have that intimacy, that connection with somebody, it's going to feel very shallow and not the true depth of a relationship.

Nicole: Exactly, and I think there's two forms of feminine, just like there's two forms of masculine. And I'm sort of arriving more to this as I've been thinking about this lately because I've talked about this before. There's a really good book called "Masculine Relationship." Shout out to King. Is it the book, King? 'Cause the book, he likes the book. So, I mean, you over the W. Yeah, I know. They'll be able to hear us though 'cause these mics are close, but we're like, oh fish. It's very hard to record a podcast when you're in an environment not in a studio 'cause it's like, L noise distracting. It's, you know, easily distracted like we are. Yeah, because we both have ADHD. But, so, masculine relationship, right? I talk about that book a lot, and you know, as I'm coaching guys, I coach a lot of really masculine guys that are outwardly masculine, but they're not in a relationship. When they get in a relationship, they're actually, they're actually, I mean, if I were to use the, they're Yes Men, the technical terminology, but yeah, they're nice guys in the relationship. They're pushovers. They get angry easily. They're actually more feminine in the relationship than they realize, even though they're masculine. They're out doing kickboxing. They might be in the army. They might be like these masculine dudes, but they're feminine in their relationship because it's a different kind of masculine in being a strong protector, being able to handle a woman's emotions, being stoic in that sense, and making her feel safe emotionally.

John: And so the same exists for femininity in the sense that because guys are like, you know, a lot of times we've made some clips where guys are like, well, she should, I shouldn't have to do that. She should just be feminine, right? And it's like, yes, to a degree, a woman can be feminine in the sense that she can be the outward kind of feminine. Like she can wear pretty dresses. She can, you know, not be loud and obnoxious. You know, she can be that kind of feminine. She can dance. She can, you know, she can have modesty and those type of things. That femininity can exist, but the femininity that they're really looking for, which is what you're talking about, can only exist in the context of a relationship where she has the same of a masculine man bring it out, right? It's sort of like guys are like, why do you wear a shirt? Why don't you just show me your tits, right? And it's like, well, they say that. No, I'm like, that's what they're saying when they're saying just show me your femininity. You're not just going to, you know, I mean, you got to earn the boobies, right?

Nicole: Oh my God, yeah. But you got to earn the femininity. You really do because it's not, you're just not going to expose that vulnerability because it is extremely vulnerable. And so it can only exist in the presence of masculinity, even though there's that surface-level femininity that can exist. So a woman can do those things, and we advocate for that, but she's never going to truly be feminine, the nurturing, vulnerable part, accepting the leadership of a man, right? That type of thing, unless she's in a relationship with a man that has proven himself worthy by demonstrating his masculinity in the relationship. Right? Because when a woman's on her own, like I was talking about earlier, she has a masculine side that is protecting her femininity. So if she's on her own, she's doing it. She's protecting that part of her. And the only way that she can fully let that go is if a more masculine man comes along and takes care of that masculine side, right? So then she can be more in her feminine and not have to worry about the masculine stuff, right? And operate from there more often and more freely and more comfortably. Right? Like, things are still going to happen. Like, men also should not be going around thinking that, okay, I want a feminine woman, and that means she's not emotional, and that she's not, you know, going to act emotional. Like, I'm not saying that women are justified in yelling and being angry and calling names and saying hurtful things when they're upset. That I've said multiple times, it's never okay. Right? But a lot of men don't want women to be emotional, and that's what women are. And to be honest, that is the value in a woman.

John: Exactly. That is the love, that is the nurturing, that is the caring, that is the vulnerability that comes from emotion, right? And so when you tell a woman to stop being emotional, which is also the wrong thing to do in a situation where a woman is expressing her emotions, you're telling her to be less of a woman. And then she takes your advice, and she becomes hard, and she becomes masculine, and then you really don't want anything to do with her, and then she divorces you.

Nicole: Exactly. Like, that's really what happens. And like my epiphany in that other episode, that a few weeks back, is that when you try to shun a woman's emotions or you don't allow her to open up and be her safe place, again, I'm not saying that she should treat you poorly, that's not okay. Right? But when you don't do that, it's the same thing as if she's not having sex with you.

John: Exactly, yeah, exactly. And it will eat away at the relationship. So instead of trying to make a woman 100% logical like you as a man, right? You have to, that's why I'm saying, you have to admire the emotional side of a woman because that's what she's bringing you.

Nicole: Exactly. Yeah. Like, I'm not saying that two men couldn't have a relationship, and there's not love because typically one of them is more feminine, or maybe they're both more feminine, so they're bringing that emotion, they're bringing the love. But if two masculine men...

John: If we got together, it would be a business deal, right?

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. So, the women bring the love to the relationship because they're emotional, and the men bring the structure because they're logical. They bring the protection, the leadership, the brawn of what you need in life. You need the structure in life and you need the love, the emotion in life.

John: And I think one of the things that lady was saying on the TikTok too was that a lot of women, maybe they married a guy and they were bringing that aspect of it, right? So they were respecting him, they were nurturing, bringing the love and the caring, the affection. And then they got to a point where now that guy is being more cold and distant. Part of the reason why, there's always two people involved, but is that they stopped doing that. They stopped doing the things, just like guys stopped doing things that they did when they were courting a woman. A woman can start nagging, she doesn't respect them as much, she compares them to other men, she feels resentment.

Nicole: And it's usually because of the resentment. So that's why it's like, I don't know if we did the episode yet, I guess we didn't, but I wanted to do an episode where either person can fix the relationship. It just takes one, right? That's what I want to call it. But essentially, if one person can overcome that resentment and break through and start being like they used to be in the relationship, even though the other person isn't being their best, we kind of talked about that with the "do for three months, just focus on what the other person needs," right? Because, and I don't want this to turn into that topic, it is complicated because that's why we talked about the three months, just focus on the other person's needs, and then based on that, you can make your decision. Because, yeah, one person can turn it around, but one person can't turn it around and they shouldn't spend years of their life trying with someone who's not committed to trying.

John: Right, but I think most people don't realize how much actual effort is required to actually really try. Because you really have to get the speck out of your own eye before you look at the plank in someone else's eye. But that's why we're making this podcast, right? Is so people can really understand. Because if you ask most men, they're saying, "I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. I'm doing everything right." If you ask most women, they're like, "I'm doing everything right." And that's not the case most of the time. But nobody's doing anything right.

Nicole: Yeah, nobody's doing anything right. But coming back to the subject of why should guys get married, what is the benefit for them? It's not what she's bringing to the table, it's none of those other things. It is literally just the nurturing, caring, loving respect, having the partner, the companion in life, which is valuable. And a lot of guys might say, "Oh well, I can have that without getting married." And that kind of goes back to the first episode because we did discuss that in a lot of detail. But what I would say to that briefly is that, yes, you could, and yes, I do agree that the laws and the government being involved in your marriage is a crappy thing. Fine. But aside from that, marriage is a commitment that you make. And if you want the most feminine aspect of a woman to come out, you have to provide the most safety, the ultimate protection.

John: Yes, you could have it, but I think eventually she would start to feel a little less safe because you're not investing in that ultimate protection that you could give her. It's not a huge deal, it's not about a piece of paper, it's not about whatever, but it's that there is an ultimate level of protection. And you can still get divorced, I'm not saying that that doesn't happen, but in life, the ultimate commitment is marriage. And it's protection for her. And we were talking about this before, I don't know if we actually did talk about it on the podcast, but I know we were talking about it in the sense that guys always think they're taking a bigger risk in the marriage. That almost 90% of the narrative is guys are taking the bigger risk because what if she initiates divorce and I'll lose half my stuff and the court system is stacked against men. And I do agree with those things, right? I'm not going to argue with the facts about those things, some of it is overblown, but let's just say that those are the facts. I'm not going to argue those facts. But even with that said, the reason why a woman's taking a bigger risk is because, look, if you're a guy, and I know plenty of them because I coach them, okay, and I was one of them, actually. So if you're a guy who gets divorced in your 40s or even your 50s, you could go out and you could date 20-year-old women if you wanted to, 30-year-old women. You can get another wife and a marriage and a family and be fine. And you're not really playing with a disadvantage. Yes, you lost half your stuff if that was the case or whatever. But as a woman, if you get married in your 20s or your 30s, you basically got one real shot at it because if you get divorced in your 40s or 50s, and I'm not saying that it's hopeless, but I'm just saying it's going to be much harder, especially if you've got kids in tow. A single mother has a harder time, and you know, she's lost some of the benefits of youth that she had that is an appeal. So she's in a much more precarious position. Plus, if she was a stay-at-home mom and she put her career on hold, which we kind of advocate for as well, that's a huge risk as well. So a woman getting a divorce in her 40s or 50s, it's a much bigger risk for her. Plus, a guy is more likely to cheat. I know guys are going to disagree with this, but it is more likely that she could do everything right and he would cheat. Now, maybe women have a higher leaving the marriage or divorce rate, but we talked about that in some other episodes too. But it doesn't usually mean they have a propensity to cheat in a good relationship where a man could jeopardize that, especially a successful man, a lot of successful men, in a perfectly good relationship with a wife that's treating him perfectly good. So she's taking a huge, massive risk. And so, you as a man have to realize that she's taking an even bigger risk if there's no paper. If she's not guaranteed to get half of the stuff, and you can get your money back, you can get your things back, like you can.

John: You can't get time back, right? And you know, we were talking about this walking around here. If a man is so worried about his stuff, which I know it's mostly single men or men who have been through divorces already, I don't think you value that woman enough. I don't think that's the woman you should marry because it's so disrespectful, especially if you're with a woman, to be like, "Oh well, I don't want to get married. I don't want to lose half my stuff." Are you kidding me? And I can speak from experience because I literally lost millions of dollars in a divorce. It's true, I can earn that back. They're things, right? I still got married without a prenuptial agreement because I'm still saying, look, if you're going to trust me enough to use your best years on me, I'm going to give you enough of a commitment that was like, this guy's on the hook. He's not going anywhere. I want you to have that assurance, fully invest because I want you fully invested in a relationship. I don't want you having a bank account, I don't want you having a plan B, I don't want you saving your femininity until you're absolutely sure. I want to give you that security. And yeah, am I taking somewhat of a risk? In my mind, no, because I know you, and I wouldn't have done it unless I knew you and knew where we were going and that we're going to be together forever. But yeah, you could say that. So, I'm not naive, and I'm not trying to crap on men. I know that I'm going to be like the number one enemy to men because I'm saying that a woman is taking more risk in the marriage. How apocryphal of an idea, but if you really think about it, and I'm not being fed this, she's not telling me to say this, I came up with this on my own because if you really think about it, and from my own experience of seeing it and seeing how difficult it is, I can tell you that a woman is going to take more of a risk. So, you do have to put something on the line because she's putting her ass on the line, literally. Like, she's not going to biology, like she's not going to be able to have kids either, right? That's the other thing. It's like most women want to be mothers and have kids, and if she takes her shot with you and you waste five or ten years of her life and she's not married and then you move on, she doesn't get that back. Whereas for you, yes, you may have lost a decade of your life, but you still have kids too. As a man, you were working on your business, you were having a good time because the relationship wasn't the number one thing in your life, and you can still build another one and be fine. Right? Whereas most women, after the divorce, even if they initiate it, they end up in a situation that is not as favorable to men. Because like I said, I coach plenty of men, and I can tell you there's plenty of divorced men in their 40s and 50s I coach that get successful relationships that are fine. Whereas a lot of women in that same situation, it's a different story for them. I mean, yeah, it is. No one's saying that it's not because I feel like even when I was 20-something years old, it was hard to date. And I couldn't imagine being older, and now you also have a lot of men in a lot of different situations right when you're older. So, you'd be dating older men who have either been divorced or never married or in a serious relationship, which is also not ideal, right? Or who knows, like widowed, which is hard, you know, in a different way. So, like the older you get when you're dating, it's just hard in general.

Nicole: Yeah, and it's especially hard, like you said, if these 40, 50-year-olds, let's say you get divorced as a woman and you're 40, and you might want to try to go for 40, 50-year-olds, but they're trying to go for younger women.

John: Exactly. You have all the other things that I just mentioned. Like, it's why a lot of people don't like dating. That's why a lot of people are choosing to stay single, and I get it because it's really difficult. But the thing is that we're trying to help everybody, men and women. Like you said, we're not trying to be like, men this, men that. We're trying to help men realize the ways that they can have a healthy relationship, the ways that they'll be happier, and they'll have women in their lives that treat them with more respect, right? And have a happier household in general. And women, for them to realize that they need to have accountability for the things that they're doing, and they also need to own their femininity. They need to own being emotional in the correct way. They need to own that they are the bringers of love in a relationship, that they are the nurturing, caring, the gentle side. Right? Because it needs the yin and the yang. Like you need the hard and the soft; otherwise, you just have one or the other, and they don't balance each other out as well. And it goes both ways, right? Because women too, it's like if you're younger and you have a good man and he would marry you, don't waste that opportunity. Don't go on the feminist agenda and say, "I can do anything a man can," and all of this stuff. Like, yeah, we know it's true today, but if you don't actually become feminine in a relationship with a man, which again, I coach a lot of guys and I see this a lot of times, a lot of women are letting good guys go because they're like, "I'm the alpha of this relationship." They're holding on to this kind of ego thing, "I'm not going to follow a man's lead." If you do that, you could put yourself in a situation where now you're going to end up divorced so many years later, and even if you're the one who initiates it because you realize that this isn't going to work. So, you've got to also put in the right work in order to do that, not lose those opportunities. Because I agree that they shouldn't do like that, but I will also say, because you know I got to add that in there, that the instance that you're talking about, what really turned it around is being more of a man, more masculine. And so, that is why we're also trying to teach men how to be more masculine because right off the bat, you could have a woman acting more feminine from the very beginning. Because I mean, I wouldn't go around before I met you and be like, "I'm an alpha woman," but I was like, "I can do stuff on my own." You know, I was one of those women, and you never told me like, "I'm the man," or like you never outwardly tried to.

John: Act masculine; you just were masculine, and I naturally fell into a feminine role because I felt safe. I felt like, okay, this is an actual man. I can tell not by what he's saying. He's not going around being like, "I'm the man. I do the stuff," you know? You do when you're explaining on this podcast, but you don't just talk about it; you are it. And so, that's why we talk a lot about men because they have such a higher influence than they even think that they have, right? And we're trying to help them realize that in a healthy and right way.

Nicole: Exactly, because deep inside, every woman that's like, "I'm an alpha female," or like, "I'm independent. I can do it on my own," she wants a man to take at least some of the masculine responsibilities off her plate so she can frolic through a field of flowers and have a picnic with her dog or her kids and make cupcakes. Like, there is some feminine thing like that inside of every woman that she wants to do. Yes, but she has other responsibilities, or she has, you know, other things she has to do, or she doesn't trust the man that she's with to be able to handle the things in that way, so she can't let that fully out. In fact, it's so funny because every time I have a coaching client of mine, and he says something along the lines of, "She told me I'm an alpha man. I'm the alpha of this relationship," or "I'll never follow a man's lead," I'm like, that's good. That's the best indicator that she will because she's challenging you. She's like, "I really want you to win." She's like, "I want... I'm not going to just give the prize, but I really," she's like telling you that she wants you to accept the challenge. Show me that you're a bigger alpha than she is. Otherwise, she wouldn't say that, right? She wouldn't say that because if she's saying that, then she recognizes the dynamic, and she wants you to prove it so that she can be in her...

John: Because here's the thing, and this, I think, guys need to understand this. It's not like a woman is trying to masculinize you because she wants to be the big dog. She's doing it because there's a part of her that says, "If I don't do this, if I don't try as hard as I can to take control of this steering wheel, and I just let him have the steering wheel, then I will not be satisfied. Then I will feel like I have failed. I feel like I have not vetted properly. I have not done everything, and he is not the man." So, she has to try as hard as she can to wrangle the power from you, the dynamic to be the masculine one, so that she can feel powerless. She can feel free to be feminine because she knows, just like being tied up, like it's that feeling of, "I'm not in control, and I couldn't be in control even if I wanted to." That's that feeling of freedom. It actually gives a woman a feeling of freedom. So, she has to really, really feel like she tried as hard as she could, and you just were too much. Like, she couldn't win against you, and now she can relax.

Nicole: Yes, however, I think it's more of, she has to, you have to prove it, like you said, that part 100%, because a lot of men talk the talk, and they don't walk the walk, right? And when you prove it to her, and you prove it consistently because she might test you a few times because one time's just not enough. No woman's going to risk it because she was like, "Oh, he showed me he was a man one time." Right? She's going to put you in multiple different sorts of situations to see if you handle it better than she does, right? And actually do the things right. Yeah, because she can't go on your word. She can't go on you being like, "Yeah, I'll handle it." You have to handle it. Then you have to show her. Then, yeah, and like you said, then later, after you have proved it, she can relax because she's seen you prove it to her that you have the situation handled. You have all the masculine, you know, responsibilities or the responsibilities in the relationship handled, and she can rest, yeah, knowing that you have it covered. It's kind of like if you've played, you know, a game with one of your kids or something, and it's like, do you let them win? Right? If you let them win, and then they're like, "I'm better than you," you're like, okay. Right? At some point, if they keep on saying, "I'm better than you," you'll be like, "Yeah, let's play for real now." Right? You like, "Yeah, yeah, let's see if you're better." Like, you see what I'm saying? So, it's kind of the same thing, right? It's like, if a woman just were to just let you win, she's just like, "Okay, yeah, I just, you know, whatever, you're the man," right? But you haven't really proven that you're the man, right? She's going to be thinking in her head, "I let him win. Like, okay, he's a big man," right? She's going to be thinking that. She has to really feel like, no, he's the big man, right? Otherwise, you're not really going to get the respect. You're not really going to get that submission, that true following, like your lead, you know? It'll just be the words.

John: So, right, so you have to earn it, and you should want to earn it as a man. And that also, again, coming back to the idea of why you should get married is because, look, just getting there and figuring out as a man will grow you more than anything else. Like, you can go to the gym, you can go and run, you can lift weights, you can read books, you can do all this kind of personal development, improving yourself as a man, but you're not really going to hit the highest levels of spiritual and emotional development until you're in a relationship with a woman that is challenging you, right? For the better.

Nicole: Right, and also, let me throw a statistic at you guys. Okay, I don't know the actual number, but statistically, married men live longer than single men.

John: Yeah, that's true.

Nicole: So, yeah, keep that statistic in mind. That's good. They don't jump off of the stairs on their... No, they still do it, but they get a stern warning from their wife and their sister and people on TikTok live who are like, "Uh, what is he doing?" But yeah, I think that's... I mean, that's really the thing. It's like, if you're trying to find some other reason, you know, some other benefit that would bring to the table, if you're a successful guy, you don't need all that other stuff. Like, the thing that you do need that you cannot buy, you cannot get anywhere else, is true love, true companionship, truly someone to go with you to the mazes and have a wonderful time, and you can be with them for three weeks, and you still love them and still want to spend every moment with them because they're so wonderful, you know? That's what you get, and you can't replace that. And right there, you know, and you will always feel like you're missing that, right.

John: Right, you don't need it, but you'll be missing something in life, something beautiful in life, if you can't figure that out. And you might say, well, you know, back in the '50s or whatever, or if I go to a different country or what, you know, look, you've got to figure it out today, right? You can't just be like, oh, victim mindset. If women were different, if women weren't so bad today, then I could have, you know. But there's none of them that are worth it. Yeah, you can have that mindset, but you're still going to be missing the thing. So, if you want the thing, you have to figure out the stuff that we're telling you about. How everybody wants the thing, no matter what they say. Like even the guys who are like, oh, I'll just...

Nicole: Be single forever. We had a guy write into you who said he gets women, he's successful, he goes to the gym, he has all these things, yeah, but he can't have a relationship. Because men try to act like they're fine, and like you said in the very beginning of this episode, yeah, he can get the things that men think are the only things that women bring to the table. But then, why aren't the guys who are single forever or constantly dating, why are they looking for a relationship, or why are they not fulfilled with that lifestyle? It's because it's devoid of the love, right? And I saw TikTok, I forget who it was from, I think it was from that divorce lawyer guy, I don't know what his name is, I forgot. Yeah, but he was saying that the best thing you can have in life, right, is love, right? Is someone to spend your life with who you love, right? And who's going to be there for you and who you through challenges because the risk...

John: Thing that men say, I get it, you know, it's risky. But, like you said, it's risky for women, and life is risky. Everything we do in life is risky. Driving to your job every morning is risky, right? Yeah, well, and heck, heck, you never hear this kind of advice against business deals. But I mean, you hear people say most businesses fail and whatnot, but no one's ever like, oh, don't get, don't start a business, right? Maybe some places, but we're very encouraged of entrepreneurship, but that's way more risky, right? And you're a lot of money to everything, not have everything, all you got to pledge, you get an SBA loan, you're pledging your house, everything, you know, you're everything. If you fail that business, everything's gone, right? So, and so if you don't feel like the woman that you're with is worth investing like you would in a business, like you said, then don't invest. But yeah, then she's not the one for you. But you know, there is a benefit, and women need to bring...

Nicole: Back the empowering each other, yeah, and showing men that the softer side of femininity is valuable, yeah. And I think that tides are trying to change a little bit. There's definitely still upset women and feminist, super feminist women, and you know, things like that. And like I said, they're in some ways they're trying to protect themselves, they're trying to protect the softer parts of them. But at the same time, I'm not saying let all your vulnerability out, but you do have to be more vulnerable. You do have to show that, even if it's scary, even if you might get hurt. You can be smart about it, like I was talking about in the very beginning. You don't have to, you know, give your total vulnerability over to a man that you just met, right? He does still need to prove to you that he is a safe place to pour into, yeah. But that doesn't mean you can't give femininity from the very beginning. You just have to...

John: Be wise about who you're being vulnerable to and with and things like that. But if you do come across a good man, and a man who hasn't just talked about protecting you but has showed you that he will protect you in the ways that we've talked about, then you do need to let him in. You need to be vulnerable. You need to be 100% soft and nurturing and caring and bring the love to the relationship. Not that he's not going to bring the love, but like you talk about, in the sense of love, a woman is pouring on the garden, right? Yeah, the love garden. Well, and the thing is, look, it's like you can challenge a man. You shouldn't just be an easy win, I mean, in any way, sexually, anyway, you know, in vulnerability and all those things, right? But he has to have some hope of winning, right? It's not The Hunger Games; you're not trying to kill him. Yeah, when you come out here spewing feminist...

Nicole: Stuff and saying I don't need a man, and you know, whatever, men are trash, and and and this kind of stuff, look, a really, really strong man knows, okay, whatever, he's not even paying attention to that. But you're going to scare away most men because they feel like they don't even have a chance. It, you know, if you're like, look, I do value myself, I'm going to guard myself, I'm going to protect myself, I'm not just giving myself away, you have to earn it. Then yeah, then a respectable man at least feels like he has a chance. He has, he will fight for it. But if he feels like he has no chance of winning, no chance at all, because of the things that you're saying and you're putting out on social media, or you go on a date and you start saying all this stuff, it, he's going to give up because he's not even going to try because he's going to feel like he can't win.

John: Yeah, I mean, both men and women should start by not talking about men and women in a negative way, yeah, and like we see it all the time in our comments from men and women.

Nicole: From both, yeah. And like, women, for their perspective, you wouldn't want to go out with a man who's like, every woman is a hoe, or every woman is, you know, just trying to have an OnlyFans. You're not going to go out with a man like that.

John: No, so why would a man go out with you if you're also on the Internet or just talking about like, every man sucks, or like every man is a pig? Or like, the thing is that there's so much of that being thrown around everywhere by both men and women, right, that it's just, again, it's further dividing everybody. And don't shit on your exes either, right? It's just like if you're an employer, if you're trying to get a job, and on your resume, it's like, yeah, my last boss sucked. Good luck getting it, you know. They're not going to be like, uh, I don't know if we should, like, I don't know if we should hire this guy. You shouldn't even really talk about exes until further in because, but I'm saying, some exes do suck.

Nicole: Well, but I'm saying in the comment section and stuff, like, just...

John: Right, well, you don't need to put that out there. People are going to see it, and they're like, okay, well, you know, it's like, you just don't need to put the bad juju out there at all. Just, right, it just perpetuates more negative talk, and what we want here, we want everyone to get from our podcast in general, is the value in both masculine and feminine.

John: It's not a competition. It's turned into such a competition. Women are like, "Oh, we're better than men," and men are like, "Oh, women suck, and we've just been better." And that is exactly why nobody's happy. That's exactly why nobody on either of those sides is happy because what people don't realize is when you are in your masculine, a healthy masculine like you are, and you are in a healthy feminine like you've allowed me to be and helped me be, it is the ultimate balance of peace and harmony in your life. I have never had such clarity and ease in my life until you came along. I have such faith in you and what you say you're going to do, you're going to do. And you allow me to be feminine and be emotional, and you're there for me and support me through that rather than trying to get me to not be that way.

Nicole: Right. And if people got to experience this, it would wake them up. And that's also why we started this because it is a real dynamic shift. Like I've even said in this episode right now, you didn't force me to be more feminine or more submissive towards you. My mind could do that. People are afraid of the word submissive, but in my mind, I didn't even view it as submissive. I view it as I can allow you to take the lead.

John: And you're doing exactly what I would even do. And I don't have to worry about it because we're on the same page. We're the same type of person in that way where we're going to get the stuff done, so I don't have to worry.

Nicole: Exactly. Like, yeah, sure, that's a submissive thing, like I'm submitting to your leadership. But people, on the dictionary definition, they view it in the wrong way. It's not about like I don't feel suppressed. And I was very much an independent woman. I wasn't like a hyper feminist, but I was like, I got this stuff covered. And I don't feel worse. I dominate by showing you, that's the difference. That's what people don't understand, and that's why they get such a negative implication of it. Dominance is shown; it's by who you are. You don't tell someone you have to do what I say.

John: I do think that a man should have a talk in the beginning of a relationship, like we've talked about, a captain of the ship talk, and say, "Look, that's why I say it that way. Like, if you're going to be on the ship, I'm going to be the captain of the ship. I'm a good captain. I go down with the ship. I take care of my crew, but I'm going to be the captain. But you don't have to be on the ship." It's not, "You must do this." It's like, "This is how I'm going to run my life this way, and I'd love to have you, but you don't have to be." That's the way to do it. That's not a way of saying, "You must do this." It's giving the option. It's making it clear upfront that this is the dynamic. But it's not enough just to say those words. If a woman, if you have that conversation with a woman and she's like, "Uh, yeah, I don't think so," then you probably haven't demonstrated that.

Nicole: That's what I was going to say because if you've demonstrated, it's an easy answer. Then that conversation is like, "Oh yeah, of course, I trust you." I don't need to have a struggle with you. But if you're still in the stage where she's having a power struggle with you, it's because she doesn't trust you. You haven't demonstrated, like you said, the masculinity, the responsibility, the trust that you would bring to her. It's like when we got on a plane, right? We get on the SE plane here, right, which are scary, but you trust those pilots. We heard about yesterday, the guy was telling us how much school and training they go through.

John: Yeah, we don't get on the plane and be like trying to hit that button, "I don't think that was right. Are you sure you know what you're doing?" We're just like, we sit on the plane and pray. That's it. But what I'm saying is that like, that's because they've earned the trust. They have the stripes on their sleeve. They've done the action. We know, and we've seen it. They haven't had crashes. They have a safety record, so the conversation doesn't even need to be had. The pilot's not like, "Are you going to listen to me?" He's like, "You better listen to everything I say because I'm the pilot of this plane." It's understood. Like when you get on, otherwise, you don't get on the plane. It's the same type of thing. As a man, you've got to have it demonstrated already, and then this conversation becomes a very simple conversation. Just make sure we're on the same page here. But if you have that conversation and there's a lot of resistance, you're just not there. You haven't demonstrated enough yet. You don't want to move on with the relationship.

Nicole: So, yeah, everybody just needs to appreciate the other for what they bring, especially men because, like I said, they don't, when they're like, "Why do I need to get married?" They're not thinking about the love and the connection and the intimacy and the nurturing.

John: And even like if you have kids, if you want to have kids, that's the woman that's going to be raising your kids. Like, you need to value that, and women need to know that that is what they bring. That's the most valuable thing because that can't be bought, that can't be duplicated. Everybody, even in their vulnerability and their nurturing, are different, and that is your strength. That's something that's in your heart that can't be taken away from you.

Nicole: Yeah, and it's the most powerful thing. When I used to get asked what I brought to the table when I went on dates and stuff, I would be like, "If you don't know, then we don't need to go on any more dates because you should know by the person that I am, the things that I would bring you, by the conversation we're having, by the experience we're having." And so, if you have to ask me that question, then we're not compatible. Then you are looking for material things, you're looking for checklists of things that aren't even actually going to make you happy. But I know that you don't value what is really long-term. It's like buying fine art, you know, an expensive painting, and then like negotiating with the art dealer and being like, "Yeah, but what does it do?" It's like, it brings beauty to your life. You hang it in your living room, and it makes your life better every time you see it.

John: It makes coffee or anything, like, was it like, mean if I'm going to pay all this money for... yeah, it's like that's the thing. And you know, you're absolutely right about... And I would say to any guy that still is like, "Oh, I don't need that stuff." Look, I want you to go back to your first heartbreak, alright? 'Cause every guy has had this, the crush, the heartbreak, whatever it was, the girl that you liked, and were you so heartbroken because you're like, "Oh man, she was going to be such a good cook and cleaning, she was going to be such good sex, she was going to be such a good 'make some money for me on the side.'" Like, yeah, it... Why was your heart broken? Your heart was broken because you thought she was going to be your love. You were in love with her, not because of those other things. So that's the thing, is yeah, you became jaded. I understand, every guy goes through that phase, but you have to realize that the thing that you wanted from the beginning is the thing that you still want, and it's the thing you still can't get. And you didn't have a crush on the girl, you didn't want her, you didn't have the heartbreak because she was bringing you material things or even sex. That was not it, right? No matter how much you try to deny it now, you know in your heart that that's true, and that's always going to be true, and it's always going to be missing until you figure out how to get that. And a lot of guys on the internet have told you, you can't get that, and stop being a simp, and whatever, which I agree, don't be a pushover, don't be a nice guy, a people pleaser. We, you know, in order to try and get that 'cause you can't barter for it, you earn it by being the man that a woman actually gives that to.

Nicole: Mhm. And if it makes you guys feel any better, my crush in 8th grade told me that I was pretty, and then he said, "pretty ugly." So, and I still survived. Like, everybody's had those. I get though, for a minute, it's a little bit more ego crushing, but you shouldn't give up. There are good women out there. Yeah, and you don't have to go and be a passport bro to find them. Right. And if you are the man, like I said, it will... And when I dated too, I was dating the same Western women, and so many of those women acted feminine around me because of how I was treating them and acting, and they were even outward feminists on their profile. I said "femin," you know, but they weren't acting that way to me, right? 'Cause you were being masculine. So I know, I know that that is the case. And like you said, when we first started dating, you know, you weren't like a, you know, a card-carrying feminist, but you had more of those ideals and more of that independence, and which you have to have as a single woman. Like, yeah, to a degree, it's going to be hard to find a single woman that's not being supported by her parents, right, or someone else, right, and isn't like, "I'm an independent woman," 'cause she is an independent woman. But the issue with the independent women is that they continue to act that way well into the relationship, and when they don't know when to let go of that. And to be honest, it's probably because they don't feel very safe to let go of that because they don't have a very masculine man to take over those things, so that she can go from independent woman to a feminine woman. And a lot of women say in the comments, "Yes, I would be like that if I could find a man like that. Like, where do I find these men?" That's most common. They're watching this podcast. That's where you find them. Be the man, because I'm telling you, they're looking for that, is going to get you what you want. If you start working on yourself to be a gentleman, to be a healthy masculine man, yeah, you will have success. And it's not just... Here's the other thing, one last thing I'll say about that, is that a lot of guys are like, "Well, why can't women just have on their profile on Instagram, 'I'm feminine,' and 'I'm,' you know, and like... Do you know how quickly they would be bombarded by every single guy?" I mean, already women are bombarded, but I'm just saying, like, you can't just advertise that. You have to realize that like, you're not going to find women like that because every single guy would be going after them, like because she's... She's giving it away for free, essentially. You, she's not even going to be her ultimate feminine because, again, she needs that protection, she needs an actual man, right, to protect her vulnerability and her femininity. So, you got to bring that out in a woman. Find a woman, right, you know, that that, and most women will become that, right. It's true. Like, I have never seen, and I've coached a lot of guys, like I said, and a lot of guys have told me their girlfriend or the wife is like, "I'm independent, blah blah blah," and then when they've gotten the right, and they've had boundaries, and they've stepped up and been a man, then all of a sudden, the woman, the tune changes. Yeah, she's like, "Oh, I like this now," you know what I'm saying? Because a woman has to be sure. Like, I mean, like you said, she is going to test you a little bit, and it's not like a game, it's for her safety. Yeah, it's so she knows that if she opens up to you and shows you her deepest, darkest side, you know, not darkest in like an evil way, but you know, the parts that are very scared to be out in the open, she has to know that that's safe for her to do.

John: Exactly. And it takes a lot to get to that point. Yeah, but yeah, our thing for the week is, I don't know, I mean, we didn't really have... I mean, we're in Paradise, we're having a good time, right. We already said too, on some of the other, there was a few things in the beginning, but, but I mean, this week has been super smooth.

Nicole: Yeah, we've just had fun and had a good time. Back to reality though.

John: Yeah, back to the podcast studio. But I do have to say, this is like, you know, as a kudos to us, like, and proof in the pudding, is that we've been traveling together, not that we're not always together, but I mean, 100% 24 hours a day for three weeks.

Nicole: Oh, we're still in love and in a very stressful situation, which was to get to this resort.

John: Oh yeah, we flew on a sea plane in a storm.

Nicole: Yeah, and it wasn't super crazy, but they couldn't land here, so they landed at another resort, and I thought I was going to throw up because there's no AC on the sea planes, and the turbulence was turbulent, and then we had to take a speedboat that scared the bejesus out of John.

John: And at times, yeah, it was a little hairy. We thought we were going to flip and stuff. And I told him when we got off, I was like, "I don't think there's anybody that I would have gone on that sea plane with and the boat with, and like, it been an adventure like it had."

John: It's been almost... It wasn't fun, don't get me wrong. I would not want to do it again, right? But like, any other person would have probably been freaking the heck out to the point where they're getting upset with everybody else around. And we just... we had each other, so even though the situation was a little hairy, we still made the best out of it, yeah. So, and I don't think a lot of people can say that. And that again is a testament to the type of relationship that we have. And we're not perfect. We have our own moments where we have disagreements, we have situations that we have to work through. We'll talk for hours to figure that stuff out, but that's going to happen with any relation, and they're growth periods for... We don't shy...

Nicole: Away from those things. Obviously, we don't want them to happen, but when they need to, it feels like a good thing, right? Because it's... we're progressing, we're growing. Because we know... like, we're not afraid of those things happening, right? Because we know that we'll be better from them.

John: Yeah. Alright, that's it for this week. We'll see you back in the real world. Hopefully, all of our cameras stayed on this time.