Nicole [00:00:00]: The best advice for everyone is to treat dating like it's fun, like you're making new friends, and to not label yourself as. I'm looking for marriage because when I met you, right, I wasn't trying to settle down because I just gotten burned. And then when I was, like, snapped out of it and was like, no, this isn't for me. I want something serious, right? I felt like my karma was making it so no one wanted to be serious with me. And then I got to a point where I was like, look, I'm going to go have fun. I'm going to go talk to people. I'm going to go on a date. I'm going to meet someone new. I still want something serious, right? But I'm not pushing that on anybody.

John [00:00:37]: The perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every.

Nicole [00:00:49]: Fault we find our way.

John [00:00:53]: All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. Yes, it's me, too. I'm one of the two. Like, yeah. Oh, you didn't.

Nicole [00:01:07]: I went like this.

John [00:01:09]: Peace.

Nicole [00:01:11]: But I knew last time you were like, what are you doing over there? Had to throw it in there.

John [00:01:17]: You got to make the intro interesting. That's why they call it interesting. Interesting intro.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Yes, interesting.

John [00:01:24]: So today we're talking about. It's an interesting concept. I'll try to explain it to you and then I'll read, like, a quote about it. But it happens a lot with guys that I coach in dating is that if you're a guy that's looking for marriage, right? So you're dating seriously. You could say you're dating for marriage, looking for a wife, right? And you scare away all the girls. So the idea is that instead of doing what you think you should be doing, you should actually be looking for just sex from them. And then you'll get a wife, which, hey, I guess I'm the poster boy for it, right? Even unexpected. But I wasn't actually even trying to do that. But it happened.

Nicole [00:02:15]: But that's not why it happened. But. But I'll let you continue before I go into my thoughts on.

John [00:02:22]: I've dealt with this with a lot of my coaching clients. But let me read the thing that another kind of dating coach that I know posted. So his name is Pat Stedman. So he's got a lot of good advice here. He says, this is going to get me a lot of grief from some circles, but quote, dating for marriage is a fool's errand in 2025. It doesn't work. It just turns women off. If you meet a girl with any immediate intention other than good times and good sex, she is going to sense that agenda and split. Women aren't looking to be, to quote, be a wife. This isn't even just because of feminism. It's a misunderstanding of female psychology. Women only want to be a wife to a man they desire and won over. They want to feel like they were so special, they turned him on so much, they made him commit. It's extremely unromantic for a woman to date a guy whose main goal is looking for someone to settle down with. It makes her feel like she is some generic person who checks some boxes for him. Not to mention it puts a lot of pressure on the interaction. Your desire to sleep with a woman needs to be first and foremost in the dating process. That doesn't mean you need to sleep with every woman or that you need to do it immediately. You can and should be selective. But you do need to make the gratification of this drive the prime mover of the interaction. The sexual tension must be palpable. This is actually how it's always been. People got married in the past because they wanted to gratify this drive. That's why they didn't wait very long to tie the knot. But the religious secular rift in society has made it so. Many religious people are separated from this vitally vital. Vitality. Many religious people are separate from this vitality, almost like it's an afterthought or perk of something more profound. This is backwards. Yes, a marriage should expand into something greater than carnality, but the intimacy, the kids, the spiritual union starts with what is always started with sex. Putting this first is not only the recipe to getting a girl today, but laying the foundation for a healthy relationship. Anyone telling you anything different simply doesn't understand what it's like out there and is making it paradoxically harder for you to find a wife. Which I replied 1 billion trillion, quadrillion percent true.

Nicole [00:04:57]: Okay, I have a lot of thoughts.

John [00:05:00]: Okay, let's hear the thoughts.

Nicole [00:05:02]: I'll start from trying to put myself in the man's shoes.

John [00:05:07]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:07]: Right. So I can understand where, as a man, you would agree with this.

John [00:05:18]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:20]: And in some ways it is a better way for men to operate, but I would not say it's the best way.

John [00:05:28]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:28]: The only way that it's the better way is because usually when men lead with I'm dating for marriage or, you know, I'm looking for my wife or whatever, Same sort of idea. However they say it, they are coming across as too much of a nice guy. A lot of times they are giving to a woman that has not earned anything from them.

John [00:05:55]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:55]: So they're giving her wife material and actions, and she hasn't earned that from him yet.

John [00:06:05]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:06:06]: And that turns anyone off.

John [00:06:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:06:08]: Because women, I'll get into their side of this in a minute, but they go together. So he's giving all this to her. And honestly, a lot of men and women who do this as well too, when they go in and they're like, I'm looking for my wife, the next person I get serious with, I'm gonna marry, they're trying to turn anyone that they somewhat agree with into that person.

John [00:06:35]: Right. Which is the check boxes.

Nicole [00:06:37]: Right. Well. And so even if they don't check the boxes, they're trying to gaslight themselves into thinking that that person. So they're projecting because their end goal is, I want to get married, not I want to find the person that I want to get married to.

John [00:06:50]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:06:51]: So when a man tells you when you're on a date, I'm looking to. To get married, and he has no boundaries, and he can't tell you no. He's trying to fit you into whatever his idea is of marriage is of a wife, even if you don't fit that. And that is a surefire way to have an unhappy relationship, which is when you don't fully accept that person. You don't have the boundaries. You're hoping that they're gonna change one day into the person that you really want. The people pleasing stuff, and then they get resentful because you're not turning out to be the wife that they thought you were, they were looking for. And then that causes a bunch of problems.

John [00:07:29]: So it's like, okay, my lease is expiring in a couple of months, and I need to find an apartment.

Nicole [00:07:37]: And you try to make whatever apartment comes across your way work as opposed.

John [00:07:42]: To, I'm living here totally fine. Oh, this apartment looks nicer than where I'm at right now. I think I'm going to move in here.

Nicole [00:07:55]: Wait, so are you saying this in a sense of like, a guy's in a relationship and he's just going to leave for another relationship? Because it kind of is coming across that way.

John [00:08:03]: I'm fine. I'm good with life right now.

Nicole [00:08:06]: Yes, yes, yes. On your own. So I get in a sense where this guy, whoever wrote this, I Can't remember what name you said. Patman. Trying to take people to the other extreme. However, there are men that are in the other extreme that he's talking about, and they still aren't getting success. Like, yes, you are. Like, oh, I was doing this. Da, da, da, da, da, da. But deep down inside of you, you really had this idea of love that you thought existed, but you had given up on that. And so. But it was still inside of you. Or else I don't even think I really could have turns you around myself. So the thing is, like, my best advice for both men and women before I get into the woman's side, which I'll let you talk about the men's side, too. But the best advice for everyone is to treat dating like it's fun. Like you're making new friends, like you're getting new experiences. And to not label yourself as. I'm looking for marriage. Because when I met you, I had gotten to a point in my dating life where, you know, going way back after I got cheated on, I was kind of, like, reckless, you know, Like, I wasn't trying to settle down. Cause I just gotten burned. And I was, like, talking yada, yada, yada. And then when I was, like, snapped out of it and was like, no, this isn't for me. I want something serious.

John [00:09:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:31]: I felt like my karma was making it so no one wanted to be serious with me. Right.

John [00:09:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:35]: So then I'm, like, probably coming off too strong when I was in that phase of dating. And then I got to a point where I was like, look, I'm gonna go have fun. I'm gonna go talk to people. I'm gonna go on a date. I'm gonna meet someone new. I'm gonna find out what I like and what I don't like. And I still want something serious, but I'm not pushing that on anybody. Like, I am going to have that in the back of my mind, because I don't need to tell somebod in order to get that. Like, I need to project that I'm having a good time and actually do that. And that I want to get to know people and I want to know who you are to see if we even like each other, see if we're even compatible. Because I'm not thinking about getting married unless I find somebody who comes along randomly off of Tinder and pushes me further down that road.

John [00:10:26]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:10:27]: And even then, with you, I did realize you were the type of man that I would want to marry.

John [00:10:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:34]: But I Had to also get through a lot of the other stuff that we went through right before, like, that even became a forefront thing. So for men and women getting married and being serious about dating, you should. Everyone should have that in their mind, but you should never lead with that.

John [00:10:54]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:10:54]: It scares anyone away.

John [00:10:56]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:10:57]: And I, including women do this a lot as well, too.

John [00:11:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:01]: But again, we'll get. We'll get into the woman's side. But, like, that is the key. And I think he's pushing men a little bit more towards the promiscuous side, which a lot of men typically do that with men. Because men are, you know, the more promiscuous sex normally. And that's what they do. Well, you know, that's. Yeah, they're looking to get laid.

John [00:11:22]: Well. But it's also because it's a dance between the masculine and the feminine, like I said, like we've talked about before, is that men are trying to get sex, women are the guardians of sex, women are trying to get commitment, men are the guardians of commitment. And so they both need to be pushing their agendas in order to have a good conflict. A good conflict, which produces a good tension, which produces passion, which produces an interaction. Right. I'm trying to get this. You have this that I want. You're trying to get this. I have this that you want. If either of those sides makes it too easy, there's no relationship. If the guy's trying to get sex and the woman just gives him sex super easy, he's got what he wants, there's no tension. If the woman's trying to get commitment and the guy's already like, I'm looking to date, seriously, there's no tension. There's no push and pull. If you have both people acting in the chase and the pursue role at the same time on different planes, that's when you create the tension that actually builds.

Nicole [00:12:29]: But I don't feel like he described that. I feel like what you're describing is a hundred times better way to describe it than what he describes.

John [00:12:37]: Well, let me tell you why I actually agreed with exactly what he said, exactly how he said it. Because it's exactly how I tell my male dating clients.

Nicole [00:12:48]: Why?

John [00:12:49]: I'll tell you why. Because these guys are too nice and they need to be. They need to be the guy. Not in the PG movie, in the rated R movie. They need to be the guy that is actually pursuing this so that they. They get it off of their brain. Because even if they're like, okay, I'm not going to talk about long term relationships. I'm not going to talk about that. I'm looking for a wife. I'm not going to talk about those serious things. They still go to the date and it still projects in what they're saying because that's what they're really thinking. And so you actually have to change your motivation and be like, I'm just going to have fun. I'm just going to try and do the masculine agenda of trying to have sex. Right. And I don't have any kind of expectation besides that. And then let the woman do her part, which is to try and win me over. Right. But. But he's not even thinking that way. So you're playing your game. She's playing her game. If you're like giving her the cards to your game and you're helping her cheat at the game, she's not going to have fun playing that game. Right. And if she's helping you cheat at the game, it's not going to have fun. So you got to be playing your game, which is to try and get laid. Right. Again, it doesn't mean you have to do it like you have. I'm not saying you have to be a pickup artist. I'm not saying you have to like sleep with girls on the first date or whatever. Like you can choose whatever adventure you would like. But you. That's got to be the thing that you're trying to do so that she's got the things that she's trying to do, which is trying to get commitment from a guy that she likes.

Nicole [00:14:23]: Which. Okay, I understand as well too. I understand and I think even slightly mentioned it earlier that I get that he's going to the other extreme. And I get with these nice guy, people pleasing type of people that you do need to go to the extreme. But the thing is one of your friends was a pickup artist and then he started leading with I want to get married. He already knew how to pick up women and it still wasn't working for him. So like, the thing is that I understand what you're saying and I do agree that if someone is far in the people pleasing and like trying to impress people mode.

John [00:15:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:02]: That sometimes you do have to give them advice that's a little bit more extreme so they land somewhere in the middle.

John [00:15:08]: But I don't think it, I don't even think it's extreme. I think that just the advice.

Nicole [00:15:11]: I think though here's why I think it's extreme.

John [00:15:14]: Okay.

Nicole [00:15:15]: Because this is already happening to men who can easily Pick up women and have sex with women. And men are mad about that. Like, those men are doing what this guy is saying.

John [00:15:26]: Yeah, but they're not.

Nicole [00:15:26]: And they're not committing.

John [00:15:28]: Right, but they're not looking.

Nicole [00:15:28]: Women want them.

John [00:15:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:30]: And not the other guy.

John [00:15:31]: Okay, and so. So where is the problem then? Those men don't. We're talking about a problem that men have, right? So men, they don't have a problem because they're fine. They're not. Those guys that you're talking about. They're not like, oh, I can't find a wife. I can't find a girl to commit to me. They can. Any of those girls that they're sleeping with will commit to them.

Nicole [00:15:50]: Well, those are not wife material. If you're going after a guy that you're sleeping with and he doesn't want you and you want him, then girl, you need to. Well, her priorities are not in charge. She's not looking for a husband in him either. She's looking for validation. So, like, that's what I'm trying to say though, is like, there is a thin line between being somebody that's just given women validation. And that's why a woman wants you versus why a woman wants you. Because your husband material like that is not the same thing. And you can't just tell men to go after sex and then maybe they start doing it and women only want them for the validation. Because what happens when that woman finally gets the man that she was seeking the validation from? She doesn't want him anymore. When he gives her validation, which is what she was chasing him for, she doesn't want him anymore.

John [00:16:48]: Yeah, but see, when a man is only going after a woman for sex, then he's more authentic in himself in the sense that is true. So then she gets to know who the real him is. And then if she likes that guy and she wants to try and pursue commitment, because then she's got to pursue the commitment. And then he feels like she's a valuable enough woman, cares for him enough, would make a good wife. Then he allows her to get the commitment. Right? But the guy has to realize that he is the guardian of commitment. And that's the whole thing is like, you can't be the guardian of commitment if you're giving that away. Like, you have to be like, I'm not looking for commitment.

Nicole [00:17:28]: I agree.

John [00:17:29]: In order to.

Nicole [00:17:30]: You cannot quickly give away commitment even if you're a man that wants to settle down and get married.

John [00:17:34]: But you can't even have it on Your mind, you got to be like, I'm not looking for commitment. Like, if commitment finds me, great. But I'm not looking for it. Otherwise, it'll slip out.

Nicole [00:17:43]: But here's another problem with what you're saying is I don't think a woman should ever chase a man like that. I don't think a woman should ever chase a man who sleeps with her and then doesn't talk to her, doesn't hit her up. Because now he's the princess, right? And you're the man.

John [00:18:01]: So what's the solution?

Nicole [00:18:03]: To leave him alone. Don't do that.

John [00:18:05]: To not sleep with him.

Nicole [00:18:06]: Don't. Yeah. Don't fall in.

John [00:18:07]: That is to not sleep with him.

Nicole [00:18:08]: That's.

John [00:18:08]: That's the thing is, like, so. And that creates that perfect interaction. So imagine you've got a guy. Let's say. Let's say I'm coaching a dude, right? And he's this kind of nice guy dude. He's like, I just want a wife. I don't want to be a player. Or whatever. I hear this all the time. I'm like, you're far from a player. Like, trust me. Like, you're not gonna suddenly become a player, okay?

Nicole [00:18:27]: You're.

John [00:18:27]: You got so much to go. Like, don't worry about it. It's like the guy that's like, oh, I don't want to go to the gym because I don't want to lift weights, because I don't want to be. Shoot. I'm like, dude, look, you're gonna lift heavy. You're not gonna be fucking jacked. It's not gonna. Like, you'll have to work hard to get jacked. Like, you're not gonna be a player just because you. You, like, date some girls, trying to have sex with them. Like, so you got that guy, right? Super nice guy, okay? He. Now he gets the advice, right? And so now he dates a woman. Stop trying to, like, marry her, whatever. And he's trying to have sex, okay? Now she doesn't have sex with him, right? Because she.

Nicole [00:19:07]: And what is he gonna do? She doesn't know what to do now.

John [00:19:09]: No, no, it's perfect. She likes him. They have a great time. There's some flirty. There's interaction. She still has the interest in him because he's mysterious. Because he's not just like, here's my cards. He's like, I'm trying to get laid, right? Like, he's. He's putting the moves on. He's slick. She thinks, oh, this guy's. This guy's. Cool, right? He's high value. She doesn't give it up to him. So then what does he do? He keeps pursuing her. She's still showing interest. He goes on a second date, he goes on a third date, he falls in love with her. They have sex, they become in a relationship, they get married. That's it.

Nicole [00:19:42]: Okay, but in that look. And again, makes sense. And that's how it should be. And again, I think you described it better than this guy, because in the whole thing that you read, he doesn't talk about what to do if she doesn't do it. He just says, you should go for it. And if you're talking to nice guys who have no idea what to do, and you're just like, just go for sex. And that's basically all you say in your spiel. When a woman's like, no, he's gonna think, if I were him, oh, she doesn't like me, and then just move on. And so that's why I'm trying to tell you that there's more. It's like, have fun. And I agree that guys should lead more with, like, a flirty, sexual air to them, but I think it should be more, I'm gonna go have fun. I'm gonna have no expectations. Like, and again, if you. If you know, you want to get married one day, you don't have to have that in the back of your head, right? Instead of focusing on that, you need to focus on who's in front of you. You need to go on the date. And I'm. And be like, I'm gonna have a good time. And if I don't like this person, then I plaque. I practice. I practice my flirting, right? And, you know, like. And I figured out that she likes riding horses, and that's pretty cool. Like, I grew up on horses, so maybe I would like a woman that's also into horses, but she also, like, doesn't eat Italian food. So I don't like that. You know, like, you should always be taking inventory.

John [00:21:00]: I got it.

Nicole [00:21:01]: And having a good time.

John [00:21:02]: But you're talking like, you're talking like a girl.

Nicole [00:21:04]: I am a girl.

John [00:21:05]: No, that's what I'm saying. But you're thinking, like, it's you. I got that. But. But a girl can take that approach, and that's fine. She's trying to figure out. Because she's a selector in that. In that. In that stage of the game, right? She's choosing amongst suitors, choosing amongst these guys and taking inventory because she can have sex with any one of those guys that she dates.

Nicole [00:21:27]: She's not looking for sex.

John [00:21:29]: I know, but that's why she's looking for other criteria that she's going to choose on. So it's not going to work. The guy has to be pushing his agenda. Which is which?

Nicole [00:21:39]: He just has sex with everyone.

John [00:21:41]: Yeah. And then that's where he's gonna figure out. What? Look, first of all, he's not gonna succeed at that. Okay, but from the guy's perspective, look, you gotta think of it this way. If the guy's not having success with getting women to commit to him. Right. If he is able to have sex with women, those women will commit to him. He will have women that will commit to him. So again, what you're saying, I don't disagree in the sense that if she says no, there's some subtlety there that wasn't communicated in that post on X. Right.

Nicole [00:22:17]: However, I think you did a better.

John [00:22:19]: Job at disputing it, and I get that. But he's got to be. That has to be his agenda so that he doesn't pollute it with the commitment part, because that's her domain. She's got to choose him there.

Nicole [00:22:35]: I guess I just still feel like if I was a guy that needed to hear that, it's not really spelled out enough for me in the way that I would want and in a way that I would understand it. Especially if you're going 0 to 100, they're not gonna know how to do that. They're not going to know how to get out of their mindset. Like, yes. Being like, okay, just focus on this. But dating is very intricate. And I get that you're like, oh, you're. You're like a girl.

John [00:23:07]: Yeah. Well, it's intricate for women. It's not intricate for guys. Getting laid is intricate for guys. Dating is intricate for women.

Nicole [00:23:16]: But I just feel like it's still really bad advice to just tell a guy to try to sleep with whatever girl he goes on a date.

John [00:23:22]: Yeah, of course women are going to think that's bad advice.

Nicole [00:23:24]: That doesn't actually help him. Because, look, we've done episodes way back in the beginning saying that everyone needs to vet the people they're going on a date with, including men. And so I don't think it's fair to tell men, just try to sleep with whatever girl you go on a date with and not teach him that he also needs to vet and care about it. Because, like, why are you gonna sleep with a girl that you're not even really that into. And that you wouldn't want to be serious with.

John [00:23:52]: Right. Because. Because. Right. Yeah. So you have to be physically attracted to the girl. Don't sleep with a girl that you're not physically attracted to. Right. So it's like. Because guys are going to vet based on physical attraction first. Women are going to vet based on characteristics which is going to produce physical attraction. Because a woman's physical attraction to a guy, it can be somewhat off of looks. Yes. I'm not saying that's not the case. But the strongest pull of her physical attraction to the guy will be off of who he is and how more, even less, who he is. How he makes her feel.

Nicole [00:24:30]: Yeah. How he makes her feel. And that translates to how she feels because that's.

John [00:24:33]: That's how women. You know, how women become attracted to men. But men, it's different. So the man has to be vetting. And like, I'm not saying just like.

Nicole [00:24:43]: Is she hot chick? All right, that's all we need.

John [00:24:45]: Well, but that's also important too, because, like, if a woman's dating a guy and the guy is sleazy, she thinks, okay, this guy will sleep with anyone.

Nicole [00:24:56]: Is that not what you guys are saying to men?

John [00:24:59]: No, no. Have high standards.

Nicole [00:25:01]: I didn't hear that until now.

John [00:25:03]: The standards, okay, the standards that the guy should have is in terms of the physical attractiveness of the woman that he's attracted in order to sleep with her. Yes. Right. Now, if he wants to wife her up, if he does that, he's gonna have a selection of women that he can choose to have a commitment with. Just like a woman has a selection of men that she can have sex with.

Nicole [00:25:26]: That's if the woman has talked to him enough to even find out who he actually is. If he's not just flirting and trying to get laid the whole time. Because a woman's also not gonna date you if, like, again, that's why it's a fine balance, right? Because, like, if a woman is chasing you and you're all about sex, she's chasing you for validation majority of the time. Because if you're just about sex, you haven't given her enough for her to even really know you, or she's fantasized about who you are and she doesn't actually know, and she's doing exactly what the nice guys do.

John [00:25:57]: Well, okay, so if a woman is chasing a guy for validation, Right. What is that? Where does that put him in relation to her?

Nicole [00:26:05]: In her mind, it puts him high up, but only temporarily.

John [00:26:10]: Because you can't get validation from someone that's below you. Right. Or even at your level.

Nicole [00:26:14]: It has to be higher, but it's not actually higher.

John [00:26:18]: No, no, I get it's not actually higher.

Nicole [00:26:19]: Like it is a manipulation tactic that the man has used by being intimate with a woman. Hold on, let me finish. By being intimate with a woman and probably telling her a lot of things she wanted to hear and then disappearing and ghosting her a lot of the time is how it. How it actually happened.

John [00:26:37]: Well, that's not so.

Nicole [00:26:38]: Now, yes, she is chasing his validation, but it's not because he's actually valuable. It's because he has made himself appear more valuable by giving her this thing for a night. And even you used to do this, treat a woman like a princess for a night and then ghosting and then disappearing. And so now somebody's like, oh, well, maybe I did want to get to know him. I don't know anything about him. And now he's gone.

John [00:26:59]: But do women wear makeup?

Nicole [00:27:01]: Yes.

John [00:27:02]: Okay, and does that make them appear?

Nicole [00:27:05]: I. It depends on the makeup.

John [00:27:06]: And is it. I know, but like, do they wear high heels and then they wear skims?

Nicole [00:27:11]: No.

John [00:27:12]: And then they wear push up bras?

Nicole [00:27:14]: Sometimes.

John [00:27:15]: And do they get hair extensions?

Nicole [00:27:17]: Not all the time.

John [00:27:17]: Fake eyelashes and Botox. Botox and lip fillers.

Nicole [00:27:22]: Which. Look, as a man, you can decide if you want those things.

John [00:27:25]: I'm just saying that, like, it's the same game. It's the same game. It's the same game.

Nicole [00:27:29]: No, no, like actual, like manipulation.

John [00:27:33]: Right, the. Which one is the actual manipulation?

Nicole [00:27:35]: Because you do see a woman without her bra on, without her makeup on, without all those things. It's not like a woman is always doing those things.

John [00:27:43]: Yeah, but which one is the actual manipulation?

Nicole [00:27:45]: The guy? No, no. The guy giving a woman something for a night and then leaving and then not talking to her in order to get her to.

John [00:27:53]: These guys are not doing that. These guys that I'm talking to, that he's talking to. You're talking about actual player dudes. Okay, Because.

Nicole [00:28:02]: Because what do you think they're going to do? Okay, look, what do you think they're going to do when you tell. Oh my God, care about sex? They're going to go watch all those dudes I'm talking about on YouTube and they're going to try to do the exact same.

John [00:28:14]: It's like the guy going to the gym and like lifting some weights. He's not going to be hulked out like steroid freak.

Nicole [00:28:20]: Yes, he is. Going to do it wrong. He is going to look up and he's going to do it wrong. Is he going to have the same exact success as the other people? No, no, because he's going to go straight from 0 to 100 because he hasn't been told any of these things.

John [00:28:33]: But he's gonna, like, it's gonna put him in the right direction. He still has to learn a lot of things, right.

Nicole [00:28:38]: Where's he gonna learn it? That's what I'm trying to say.

John [00:28:40]: What I'm saying is that. Look. Well, there's a couple other things too. Cause you're talking like a burn. Like a spurned woman. And I get it. Because a lot of guys have. Have left women with. In that. In that state.

Nicole [00:28:52]: Yeah, they have.

John [00:28:53]: Right. And so first of all, deception is not the answer. So if he's like telling. If you're telling a woman all these things that are not true just to sleep with her, I'm not gonna call it the R world. Cause it's not. But it is a manipulative deception and it's getting close to that. Like, it's like it's false pretenses. Again, let's not go extreme and call it the R word. Some people call it that. It's not. It's like, you know, but it's sketchy business. It's really shady. It's really good. Not good. Should not be doing it. Yeah, it's really good. It's good.

Nicole [00:29:29]: Really bad.

John [00:29:30]: Really bad, bad, bad. So. So first of all, shouldn't be doing that.

Nicole [00:29:34]: Right?

John [00:29:34]: Right. Second of all, the woman sleeps with him and then he ghosts her on purpose in order to get her to chase him. Also not good. Manipulation. Not. Not the plan. This isn't the thing. Right. What I'm talking about is not those things.

Nicole [00:29:49]: Okay?

John [00:29:49]: Even that post was not talking about those things.

Nicole [00:29:52]: That's how it came across.

John [00:29:53]: But those are because. Because you're thinking about like, burn, like spurned women. How some guys treat women.

Nicole [00:30:00]: Give the woman perspective. Because, like, yeah, what I just told you. I'm not saying that that's even the majority, but it. It does happen. And I don't want these nice guys to go from nice guy, which again, it's not good to give somebody things that they haven't earned.

John [00:30:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:18]: To this extreme of now they're treating people poorly because they were told to do that on the Internet.

John [00:30:25]: And that's not even gonna work. So. So just for guys watching, if you think that that's not even gonna work, you can't even pretend to be. Like pretending to be an asshole is worse than being a nice guy because then it looks like you're a nice guy pretending to be an asshole. Like, you can't fake that, right? So don't. Like, if you're genuinely an asshole, then okay, but you can't fake being an asshole. It will look like a nice guy trying to be an asshole, which is the worst. Now you're lower on the totem pole. Your status is actually lower because a guy pretending to be who's nice, pretending to not be nice, that shows an extreme degradation of your self esteem, which makes your status go even lower. So that part is out. But to a nice guy, that is. He's looking for a wife. He's looking for, right? He should follow that, the advice of stop looking for that. Start looking for sex. But don't. That doesn't mean that now all sudden you're going to manipulate women and tell them what they. He couldn't even do that in the first place because he would have just done that in order to get her to like him and date him. You see what I'm saying? Like, he's not, he doesn't have the. It's not in his repertoire, okay? The asshole guy who's a player, who's dating women below the attraction level of what he would want for a wife, but just using them because he'll sleep with anyone. He's doing that game because he's like.

Nicole [00:31:52]: Okay, but you're telling guys to just. Nice guys to just sleep with everyone.

John [00:31:56]: No, but it's different. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:31:58]: Because they're not actually gonna do it. They're not gonna be assholes.

John [00:32:02]: Because like the guy that's doing what you're saying, he's a guy that. Let's just use numbers. Let's say he's a nine, okay? And he's going out with girls that are sixes. And he knows that if he goes out with a girl with a six and he's like, oh, you're so beautiful, you're so wonderful. He tells her the things like, I could see our future together, I could see our kids together, whatever. Like that girl who's objectively not at his level is going to let him have sex with her because of that, and then he's gonna ghost her, right? Like that's where that guy is playing that game. Because he has low standards, Right Again, Nothing wrong with the girl that, that's, that's a six. But that's not what he's looking for, and he knows it. And that's deception, right? Whereas the nice guy, all right, who's whatever, you know, maybe he's a six or whatever, and he dates the girl that. That's a six, and he tries to have sex with her. He's not telling her a bunch of things that he doesn't mean in order to get in her pants so that he can, like, gh her later on. He wants to actually build a family and have a relationship with the girl that he actually likes. But we're telling him, put that on hold for a minute, buddy, because that's not going to help you. Because she also needs to feel like she did some chasing, that she got a little victory here, too. You didn't just give it to her, right? Especially she's. She's sleeping with guys that are nines who are ghosting her, right? So that's what's happening. And she's like, why is this guy always ghosting me? Well, it's because he's actually dating below his level. That's what's happening. Which is up in her level, right? In her eyes. So she's definitely not going to go for a guy that wants to commit to her. Because if a guy wants to commit to her, how high must his status be? It must be low. There's something wrong with this guy if he wants to commit again. This is the messed up society that we live in to a degree. So that guy has to go in there and he has to be smooth and he has to be trying to get in her pants. And if she's. She likes him, but she holds off, which is a smart move for her to do, you know, make him pursue a little bit longer, then. Then it's more likely that they're actually going to get into that relationship.

Nicole [00:34:03]: I think that only needs to happen on the first date.

John [00:34:06]: What needs to happen? That the guy's pushing for the sex. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:34:10]: And I think after that it's not necessary because I don't think women operate the way that men think they do. Like, because here's the thing. Yes. On the first date, a woman is going to be turned off if the guy is, like, bringing her flowers and is like, oh, you look amazing, and like, I'm looking for my w and blah, blah, blah, blah. She's not going to probably have another date with him. So if he does that on the first date, that's. That is good, because you're still getting to know the person. She doesn't know you. You don't know her, really. But you're. You're kind of figuring out slowly but surely. But I don't think that women want a chase. I think they want the mystery in the beginning, like a slow trickle.

John [00:34:52]: Sure.

Nicole [00:34:53]: But I don't think that that's a chase. I think they want to not be handed everything immediately. But I. Like, I was thinking about you and me when we first met.

John [00:35:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:04]: And it was playful and flirty on the first date.

John [00:35:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:08]: But after I knew that you were interested and you knew that I was interested. And I don't think that that made things lesser. I don't think I needed a chase.

John [00:35:17]: Like, you did have a chase, though. Like, you had. You had to win a victory. I mean, you won quite a victory. Right. If you think about it. Not. Not. I'm not trying to give myself a pat on the back. But what I'm saying, though, is that, like, you're contending with a guy that was going around sleeping with a bunch of women that had a situation at home that, like.

Nicole [00:35:36]: I mean, I didn't know any of that.

John [00:35:37]: I know you didn't know that, but you. But you were still playing that game. Like, you're still winning that victory. Right. And the guy that lived across the country.

Nicole [00:35:45]: But I didn't view it that way.

John [00:35:46]: You didn't need to view it that way, but. But it did create obstacles and a conflict. Like, you did win something that was very hard to win. Like, I mean, objectively, like, how do you even do that? That's why I say it's witchcraft, which.

Nicole [00:36:00]: I can understand that. But I'm trying to tell you, and you're kind of like, invalidating it in a way that. I didn't view it that way.

John [00:36:07]: No, no, you didn't view it that way. Right.

Nicole [00:36:09]: That is what happened and how you were viewing it. I never once was like, I won. Like, we joke about it, and I'm like, oh, I rehabilitated you. But.

John [00:36:19]: No, but you.

Nicole [00:36:19]: But I think men view dating more as a challenge, especially because they focus on getting laid. And that is a challenge. And men like a challenge. And you said that even when you were sleeping around, it was about the victory. Right.

John [00:36:30]: But it's not. It's that. So that's a masculine drive. So the feminine way of that. Of that challenge that you overcame is like, in your view, what happened. It's not that you had this challenge that you had to overcome. I can describe it that way as a man. And it is true. That was a thing. But in your view, what happened was you, because of who you are, got a man to become so in love with you, so obsessed with you, to have such a desire for you that he overcame all obstacles to be with you. He overcame all obstacles to be with you. Because that's the masculine.

Nicole [00:37:10]: I feel like when you say that now I look at it that way, but I didn't even look at it that way before. No, what I'm just trying to say is that you're acting like men are like, yeah, I won the prize. Men are the prize.

John [00:37:22]: But see, understanding female psychology is about understanding that there's the way women think and then there's the way that they act. And the psychology, the feminine psychology, it is not a conscious psychology, it's a subconscious. And so what he's saying is like, you have to appeal to the subconscious wants and desires of women, which is what I'm saying, even though they don't know what they are, and they're not seeing this happen. Because, you know, women always give. This is why women usually give guys bad dating advice, because psychologically they're like, oh, this is what makes sense. Like, just be yourself. You know, don't try so hard. Like, looks don't matter that much, right? Because that's what they're thinking. When in reality, the subconscious truth of it is different than that.

Nicole [00:38:13]: I mean, I think those things are true, but women don't understand the. That most men are in the nice guy phase and they're people pleasers. But I wouldn't say that those are necessarily bad things to tell people because that's essentially what the asshole is doing, is being authentic. Be yourself. Well, yeah, it's a different way in.

John [00:38:31]: A different way because there's a subconscious element there that's kind of leaking into the consciousness which you're trying to express, but you're unable to because really, like, the reality is, if you look at female psychology and attraction, what really attracts a woman is a guy that is high status, powerful, right? That is not a people pleaser, that takes what he wants in life, right? That, like, and some, some of these attributes can be even towards the negative as a character traits as a person, but they still make him attractive to women, right? Again, I'm not saying to be that guy. Like, like for every negative character trait that women are attracted to in a man, there's a positive character trait that fulfills the same role. So dominance, right? Dominance can look like being a guy that calls the shots, that takes leadership, does servant leadership. Dominance can also look like a guy that knocks A woman around. Unfortunately, both of those things are in some way attractive to women. It's weird to say that, but that force, the dark force versus the light force, they're still attractive to women. One of them's good, one of them's very bad. And you should not ever do that, right? Because especially because it's like, you don't have to do bad things in order to get like, you know, why would.

Nicole [00:39:49]: You choose the destructive self imperfectly and try to be better and to do the right thing? I'm not saying that men shouldn't focus on that and be flirty and have fun, right? But I also don't think that. I still don't really think that women are these type of people that are like, yes, I won. Like, I think they're more so. I would more so say that they're like, yay, I finally found the man that I actually want to be with. And like, that I want to start a family with, right?

John [00:40:19]: And this man was willing to do all of this stuff to be with me because he conquered. He, like, you did a lot of stuff.

Nicole [00:40:28]: But I don't think a majority of men do a lot of stuff to get a woman.

John [00:40:31]: It's Sleeping Beauty, right? He killed the dragon to come and rescue me.

Nicole [00:40:36]: And what is the dragon that normal men that didn't have your circumstance do in order to get a woman?

John [00:40:43]: What is the dragon that they kill in order to get a woman? I mean, it is giving up all the other women in their life. That's the dragon. So she wins in that way that she has been the woman that this guy is willing to give, forsake all other women for the rest of his life to be with. Like, if he marries her, okay?

Nicole [00:41:03]: So that's how she won is by getting him locking him down.

John [00:41:07]: But the only way that that can happen is if that guy has other women, if he has the capability of having other women. If he doesn't have that capability, then she cannot conquer it. She cannot win. He's created a no win condition. And that's why what he's saying is correct.

Nicole [00:41:23]: And I think that maybe in that sense, it makes more sense. But women don't think like men, and they're like, I conquered this. But I will say, though, that I don't think that he means that men should just sleep with a bunch of people. And I'm not saying they're saying that.

John [00:41:41]: And he said that too. He said not to.

Nicole [00:41:43]: You have to date people. That has to be included in it. Because I feel like if you also don't try to actually get to know the person or learn how to actually have a date, then you just turn into one of the guys that just stays perpetually single or like you. And I'm gonna be single for the rest of my life and just sleep with people.

John [00:42:03]: But men don't date women. They pick them up. They pick them up and try to sleep with them. So women date men, but women say, hey, if you want to sleep with me, you have to actually date me. Okay? And then smart women say, hey, if you want to sleep with me, we need to be in a relationship. You have to actually like me enough who I am in order to be in a relationship.

Nicole [00:42:25]: So you would tell men that. You're telling men to just sleep with everybody to continue to pursue that woman?

John [00:42:32]: Yeah, of course they should.

Nicole [00:42:34]: He's not dating, so he doesn't know her. He's not paying that much attention to who she is. He's paying attention to her physical appearance.

John [00:42:40]: It can still happen in that case, right? It can still happen. She's just made it harder for herself, honestly, because she's already given him the thing that he wants. Now, if he wants to keep on getting it, maybe then that's enough of a draw because she, at that point, like, a woman has to be so good sexually that the guy wants to keep on getting it, right? It's either going to be that or he's. He's not getting it from any other woman, which is why he's pursuing her. So you see, what I'm saying is, like, it's.

Nicole [00:43:11]: But she seems to be. Not slept with a lot of people and so good sexually.

John [00:43:15]: That's the problem. So why. You see, what I'm saying is, like, it's much better for her to be like, to. To hold back and not give the guy what he wants so that he has to invest more.

Nicole [00:43:26]: And you would tell men to invest more if.

John [00:43:29]: No, I'm gonna tell them to pursue the thing that they're pursuing. But they're gonna do that on their own because if that woman is attractive enough to them and they like this woman, right, they're going to invest more in order to keep on trying to sleep with her because she didn't allow them to. So they have to keep on investing more. And then, oh, before they know it, they're like, oh, shoot, I'm in love with this girl.

Nicole [00:43:50]: So men accidentally fall in love.

John [00:43:53]: They get trapped. They literally get trapped in a snare.

Nicole [00:43:56]: But is this why they're not happy? Like, honestly, I. No, because, like, that's what girl game is. I hear what you're saying, but that also relies on the woman having girl game. Because this is a problem, too.

John [00:44:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:09]: Now that we're talking about this, is that. Is this why men are. A lot of men are unhappy in relationships, though, is because they don't actually vet and they don't know what they want, and, like, they're leading with their dicks, and so their brain then catches up after they're already married, and then they're not happy.

John [00:44:27]: Close. Close. Because for the guy, vetting the girl is not nearly as important because he's the leader.

Nicole [00:44:34]: He's the leader.

John [00:44:36]: Well, okay, see, that's the thing. That's the actual problem is that guys aren't leaders if they're men. Because I tell guys all the time, guys are like, oh, I need to go.

Nicole [00:44:43]: I need to go be taught more so to lead. And then I think it'd be easier to teach them how to actually date properly as well if they learned how to lead first. But you can't teach a man just to how to, like, how to have sex or how to get laid, and then he can't lead because he's doomed for failure.

John [00:45:01]: Doomed for failure. But he's doomed for failure if he can't lead no matter what. Whether.

Nicole [00:45:04]: Right. That's why. That's the most important thing.

John [00:45:06]: That's the most important thing. That's the most important thing. But part of him learning how to get laid is also learning assertiveness and leadership skills, because those are the things that are going to get him.

Nicole [00:45:16]: I think those are the most important things, because I think if you can lead and you're assertive, you'll flirt better, you'll create that sexual tension, and you'll be in command of the situation, which is what a woman wants, without being overbearing or controlling, and that will more likely get you laid than just trying to get laid. Does that make sense?

John [00:45:35]: Yeah. A guy like me could go on a date with a girl and tell her that he's looking for something serious and looking for a marriage. No, but, you know, he could. He could say that he's looking for something serious and he's looking for. For marriage, and it wouldn't matter. The girl would still sleep with him. The girl would still want to have a relationship with him. Why? Because it's coming from a place of not neediness. It's coming from a place of selection. Right. These guys are coming from a place of neediness, and that's what is because they're trying to find a girl to marry them, because they need to find one. Whereas if a guy like me tells a girl, yeah, I'm looking for. For a woman to marry, to settle down with. It's an application process. I'm filtering because I have the selection. And I'm telling you, you better do good, because this is an application. Now the woman feels like she needs to perform, whereas in the other way, the guy's coming across the energy like, yeah, I'm really just looking for. I mean, I'm trying to date Sirius. I really want to find a wife. And she's like, oh, okay, this guy is desperate. He's trying to find a wife. He. To find one. He doesn't have women that he could choose one from. Right? It's like, you see what I'm saying? So that's the difference in mentality. But I can't tell a guy like that or just be like me, because he can't just pretend to be that. He has to be that. Like, why can I come in and act that way? Because I know that I have selection, right? Because I have. So that's why this guy, he has to have selection. So he has to actually be able to get laid with. With logic.

Nicole [00:47:12]: But that's why I have a problem with what you said, though, like what you read, right? Because if you're only teaching men to get laid, sure, you're skipping out on all the things he actually needs to be a good man and a good husband that he hasn't learned when he was being a nice guy and just people pleasing everybody. He hasn't learned how to lead. He hasn't learned to be assertive. He hasn't learned to have boundaries. And so you're setting him up for failure by telling him go straight to getting laugh. Because the thing is. No, let me finish.

John [00:47:38]: Okay, go ahead.

Nicole [00:47:38]: Because I've been waiting to talk.

John [00:47:39]: Yeah, go ahead.

Nicole [00:47:42]: That you've never taught him any of these things, Right?

John [00:47:45]: No, hold on.

Nicole [00:47:46]: And so he's just over here trying to figure it out on his own.

John [00:47:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:47:51]: Whereas if you taught him this first, he would get this part a lot easier as well, because it ties in a lot of the core things that he needs to.

John [00:48:03]: How do you think you teach a guy how to get laid?

Nicole [00:48:06]: I don't know.

John [00:48:06]: You teach them to lead, to be assertive, to be that man. That's how you teach him how to get laid.

Nicole [00:48:14]: That's how you teach him. But not how all men teach some. Hold on. You know that Some men teach men bad tactics in order to get laid, right?

John [00:48:26]: But they don't work. Those tactics very rarely work.

Nicole [00:48:29]: Some men do put women down in order to make them insecure and then use them for sex.

John [00:48:36]: They work on a totally drunk girl or a totally bashed. Like every once in a while those work. Just like in sales, right? Like, because I'm learning sales, right? There's a lot of stupid bad sales that like high pressure sales, whatever. It works sometimes, right? So people keep on using it, but it doesn't work. Like, the best way to do sales is to ask questions and get the person to sell themselves, to get them to realize that they have problems and they need to take action on their problems.

Nicole [00:49:04]: I agree.

John [00:49:05]: That's the only real way to do sales. Anything else is something that might work sometimes, but you're just. It's just luck. So when guys are teaching guys that kind of thing, it's just as luck. They're just taking the luck of the draw. They could just go and talk to girls and some percentage of them would just sleep with them. They think that those tactics are working, but they're not actually working. That's not what's actually working. She was going to sleep with you anyway. You see what I'm saying? Like now you just put her down.

Nicole [00:49:34]: I believe that you could teach men the right way. I don't believe what you read. I don't know the person, but I don't believe what you read solely fixes a man's problems or teaches him many of the things that I just mentioned.

John [00:49:46]: No, but it's a step in the direction. Like if you're a guy watching this and you are looking to date like you want a woman, a wife, you need to throw that concept out. Listen to what that post said and change that mindset. Now that's not the only thing you need because you also need to learn how you actually gonna attract that woman, which is gonna be through those skills of learning, leadership and assertiveness.

Nicole [00:50:13]: But don't you. You, when you taught people how to get laid, you didn't send them in there without any knowledge. No, of course you had them build up the skills, which is what I'm saying is that.

John [00:50:24]: Yeah, but that's what builds the skill.

Nicole [00:50:26]: I get that. But also they didn't. You have to somewhat work on these skills. And I even know that you did this even though you're acting like you didn't. Like you had them do other little things that built the skills before they went and went and tried to get laid. Not that they weren't trying to get laid in general, but they couldn't get there because they didn't have these other skills. And so those are the most important. I guess my issue is that men are telling men, like, step five and not step one through four, which is step one through four is the little things that you had your own coaching clients go and do in order to get to where they could take someone home, right? Sure. They could go up to a woman and try to get laid. Even if they're just going straight to step five, it's not going to work.

John [00:51:14]: It's not going to work.

Nicole [00:51:15]: That's why they have to do one through four first. That's what my thing is, is that I understand the aspect of it being beneficial to try to get men over to this mentality. I understand that. I said that in the beginning. However, I don't think, though, that it's beneficial to skip on core things that are gonna not only help a man get laid, but also be a man. That when he finds his wife, he's gonna be set up to be a man.

John [00:51:47]: But here's the thing. I can give some guidance on steps two, three, four. But if he just goes to step five and tries to do step five over and over again, he's going to learn steps two, three, four. Because the persistence and the resilience and the leadership that you're going to have to learn in order to do that. Because, like, that's something I can't actually teach him. I can give him advice on that, but the best way that I teach a guy is by having him go and do. And then he goes. And then the girl rejects. I'm like, oh, man, shit, life is hard, man. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, you're gonna give up on that?

Nicole [00:52:19]: Like, I agree with what you're saying.

John [00:52:21]: And then he becomes that man.

Nicole [00:52:22]: I agree with you through the fire. But how many people in general today give up a lot easier now? And so, yeah, if you have a guy that's going straight for it, I even agree with you that he can learn those steps. But a lot of people can't just go up and do it and face failure like that and be fine. So they still, as a. Especially people pleasing nice people because they're afraid to be like, oh, I hurt somebody's feelings, and, like, I can't do that again. They need those baby steps. They need the learning of these things before they go straight to something else. Could they go straight in there and learn those things? Yeah. But that's if they're like, really committed.

John [00:53:01]: But you, you've told me you've heard me tell them, right? Like what, what I tell them what, what I tell them about their comfort. I don't.

Nicole [00:53:07]: You have to get out of your comfort zone.

John [00:53:08]: Well, I told him that. Stop making the goal, trying to get laid or trying to get a number or whatever, or trying to get the girl to like you, because again, you're in that nice guy. Like, you're trying to get validation from her. Instead, what do you need to do is you need to say, okay, I'm gonna put myself in an uncomfortable situation, and I can do that anytime. And I. And that's my win condition. And if I continue to do that, I'm in control of winning. If my goal is to get laid or get her number, I'm not in control of getting that. That's not in my control. So I'm going to lose a lot of the time. Right. But can I always put myself in an uncomfortable situation and endure it? Yes, I can always. So I can always win. Now, if a person continually puts themselves in an uncomfortable situation, will their comfort bubble expand? Of course it will. Right. Any reasonable person would say, well, yeah, they'll be more comfortable with it. Okay, And a person that has a larger comfort bubble, do they have more success in life or less success in life than someone who has a smaller comfort bubble? Right. And so literally all you have to do is expand your comfort bubble, and that's in your control. And the way you do that is put yourself in uncomfortable situations and endure it.

Nicole [00:54:15]: And that's how they learn better explanation than the other one that you read, honestly.

John [00:54:19]: Because that's how they're actually going to get there. Because they're not going to get there just by, like, you're not going to take a nice guy and be like, hey, instead of trying to get married, you should try to get laid, which I get.

Nicole [00:54:29]: So wait, wait, wait, wait. John. It's only taken 53 minutes for John to agree with me.

John [00:54:37]: Because there's a lot more that I attach to. There's a lot more that I attach to. But you're not going to take a guy and be like, hey, instead of trying to get married, try to get laid. And that's going to solve his problems.

Nicole [00:54:49]: Exactly.

John [00:54:50]: But that is the first step psychologically that is going to help him solve his problems. Because if he thinks that the women don't like me and I need to fix some things, why aren't no women want to date me or to marry me. That's wrong. He has to start thinking. He has to start thinking, why don't women want to have sex with me? Because now he's on the right path. Because that's where he needs to go. So that's why he needs to flip that switch.

Nicole [00:55:13]: I didn't say that it was totally bad. Honestly. You just agreed with me.

John [00:55:17]: No, I did.

Nicole [00:55:18]: I did disagree with you because I guess my thing is, look, I have female friends. They want to find nice guys. Nice guys, you know, kind guys. Kind guys. Kind guys. And, like, they're having a hard time. And I guess my problem, contention, what you read is that it's not really, like, yes, it is helping them.

John [00:55:42]: Right. But it's not enough.

Nicole [00:55:43]: Exactly. And if men can't understand simple things that women try to explain to them, they don't really understand what you're saying. They don't really know how to do it.

John [00:55:53]: Do you know what?

Nicole [00:55:53]: They don't really know how that's going to change.

John [00:55:55]: Do you know what the response was to what he posted?

Nicole [00:55:57]: What?

John [00:55:58]: Oh, my. I was the only person agreeing with him. All these other guys are like, that's bullshit. No way. They're, like, complaining about, oh, it's just women. Women suck. They're giving all of this bullshit because they don't understand the wisdom of what he's saying.

Nicole [00:56:13]: Right.

John [00:56:13]: You understand what I'm saying? It's like, it's not enough.

Nicole [00:56:16]: Right.

John [00:56:16]: But it's. It's the step. Like, they don't even. That's why he's saying that is because they don't even get the first step. So they're like, they're fighting him on the first step.

Nicole [00:56:25]: Right? Because they're talking about step five, though. Like, they don't.

John [00:56:28]: No, but the first step is changing your mind.

Nicole [00:56:32]: Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say, though, is, like, that is what I had a problem with is that it's not really helping men because men are still confused. And I get. Because sometimes we talk about stuff that, like, is a higher level, and people are probably like, what the hell?

John [00:56:45]: But look.

Nicole [00:56:46]: But it's like, if you're genuinely trying to help men or if we were genuinely trying to help women or whatever, like, you know, sometimes we got to take a step back and we got to start at the very basics. Because some people don't understand, which is.

John [00:56:59]: The extreme mindset shift. Like, because I've turned a lot of nice guys into studs, okay? And the way I've done it is like, dude, you need to stop being the PG guy. Like, you're the rated R guy. You got. You're. You're a bear. You have claws. Like, stop being this. This. Like, be.

Nicole [00:57:16]: Don't be afraid to tell a tubby.

John [00:57:17]: Yeah. Be an asshole. Like, be like, you're not going to be an asshole, but try like, like, not. Not. Like, like, don't be afraid of being an asshole, because you're not going to do it. You're not going to be that. But you're not going to suddenly transform from the super nice guy to super fucking asshole. It's not going to happen. But the thing is, like, you don't know where the line is. You think that the line is here. Right. But the line is all the way back here. This is asshole territory. So you're not even coming up close to that.

Nicole [00:57:41]: So you're coming in, which I get that.

John [00:57:42]: So it's like, I have to mindset. Like, start, like, right. Stop.

Nicole [00:57:47]: Stop being.

John [00:57:47]: Start being selfish. Stop caring about other people. Like, they're like, I don't want to be selfish. Don't be selfish.

Nicole [00:57:53]: Right.

John [00:57:53]: These women like selfish perverts.

Nicole [00:57:56]: That's what you have to tell them first.

John [00:57:57]: But that's. But the sex thing is part of it because they're like, oh, I want to get a woman. You got it, like, on your mind. She's got to be like, this guy wants to.

Nicole [00:58:06]: But I'm not saying the sex part is not part of it. That's what I've been saying the whole time. But you're saying. Exactly. What I'm saying is that we're just.

John [00:58:13]: Look, the reason why we're having this podcast is so that we can present it from the boat. Even though we're saying the same thing from the female side, I'm seeing it from the male side.

Nicole [00:58:22]: Like, well, I still didn't even. I guess I'll have to briefly go into the woman's on her on here. But really, I don't have to go too far in. But it's. It's exactly, though, what happens to women. Women go on a date with a guy.

John [00:58:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:35]: And they're like, I'm ready to find my husband and have kids. Guy never talks to her again.

John [00:58:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:40]: It gives off desperate energy, even if you're not desperate.

John [00:58:43]: Right. Okay.

Nicole [00:58:44]: Telling somebody outright that you're looking for these things puts that person in a weird position because even if they liked you and you guys could have gotten married or got further along, they feel like you're trying to put them in that box. Right. Then and there and they know nothing about you. It comes across like, clingy and like you're ready to find that person no matter what happens. Even if you say it outright and with confidence, you're like, I'm looking. You said earlier you're pushing your agenda on someone else.

John [00:59:14]: Okay, but here's the thing. The flip of that is not what you think it is. The flip of that is a guy going on a date with a girl and being like, I really want to have sex with you tonight. Do you think that's gonna happen? Like, I mean, it would be really cool if we had sex tonight.

Nicole [00:59:26]: They all give desperate energy.

John [00:59:28]: That's exactly. The female desperate energy is desperate for commitment. The male desperate energy is desperate for now. And that's another distinction is the guy shouldn't be thinking, like, desperately trying to have sex with a woman. He should be like.

Nicole [00:59:42]: But also if he desperately is saying he wants to get married, that's a turn off.

John [00:59:47]: Exactly. Like any kind of desperately.

Nicole [00:59:50]: Yeah, I mean, a guy might go for a woman desperately being like, I need to have sex. That might actually work. But that's the only one that is going to work.

John [00:59:56]: No, that's not gonna work.

Nicole [00:59:58]: You're telling me a guy wouldn't have sex with a woman that said that to him?

John [01:00:02]: Oh, wait a minute. Oh, if a woman says that.

Nicole [01:00:04]: Yes.

John [01:00:04]: Okay. I'm saying that a desperate guy would. Right. Like, but I'm saying that if a.

Nicole [01:00:10]: Man says he desperately needs, or he needs sex or he needs a wife, they're both going to turn a woman off. Look, but if I win, it's going to get turned off. If a woman's like, oh, I'm looking for my husband, but he probably won't get turned off. If she's like, I am looking to have sex.

John [01:00:26]: Oh, man. That would be. If I was dating a girl and. And I went on a date with a girl and she started saying that, there'd be so many red flags.

Nicole [01:00:33]: I'd be like, there'd be red flags, but you probably would do it anyway.

John [01:00:36]: No, I would not do that. I would, like, because it would just.

Nicole [01:00:40]: Difference than picking up a woman.

John [01:00:42]: Because if she's like pushing that agenda, there's something wrong here. There's something wrong. Like, why would she do that? Like, there's something really wrong here.

Nicole [01:00:50]: Like, she's really into you.

John [01:00:51]: Here's a. Yeah, that's also a big red flag because she's going to be chasing you down.

Nicole [01:00:56]: Desperate.

John [01:00:57]: You just want to avoid desperate anger.

Nicole [01:00:59]: I'm just Trying to tell you, which is what I said before, like, not take another 50 minutes. Is that it comes across desperate. Don't ever say what you're looking for to somebody. Like, people think that it's clear communication, but you don't know that person, dude. You do not know that person.

John [01:01:14]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:14]: You really shouldn't even. You should be dating for, like, multiple dates.

John [01:01:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:19]: And then, you know, if you're like, oh, I kind of like this person, you can be like, hey, like, I think I'm starting to like you. I could see this leading, this place. And then you can find out where each other's at. But don't go on a date.

John [01:01:30]: No.

Nicole [01:01:30]: And be like, I'm looking for my husband. Or, like, I'm just trying to have sex with you, looking to have a.

John [01:01:35]: Good night to have fun.

Nicole [01:01:36]: Right.

John [01:01:37]: Right. Because even. Even the guy I was just coaching, now I had to tell him because he's like. He's like, well, girls are asking me, like, what do I do for work? And I'm like, they're killing their own seduction. Like. Like, I tell her, oh, that's a boring question. Let's talk about what. What your favorite movie is.

Nicole [01:01:52]: Make it fun.

John [01:01:53]: Like, because if she's asking about, like, what his hobbies are, what he does for work, like, she doesn't have any game. That's why she's asking stupid, boring questions. She's going to kill her own seduction. Because if you answer that question, you're gonna. You're gonna lose all the mystery, right? And then you're gonna have this boring, platonic night. So instead, like, tell her. Be like. Be like. That is such a boring question. Like, Or. Or. Or tell her, well, you're gonna have to guess what I do for work. Let's see. I only work at night, and I do have a uniform, and I have a bodyguard. Like, I don't know. What are you? I'm a stripper, actually.

Nicole [01:02:27]: Wow.

John [01:02:27]: Right? She'd be like, no. Really? Is that what you really would do for a.

Nicole [01:02:30]: Like, I only strip for you.

John [01:02:31]: I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later if you're good. Right? Like, and now he plays the game. And, like. And yeah, later on, you can talk to her some serious. You. You sprinkle in a little bit of seriousness. But. But the whole point of that. I don't know why I went off on this tangent.

Nicole [01:02:45]: To have fun.

John [01:02:45]: Exactly. To have fun. That's. That's the whole thing is, like, because even if you're a woman asking what he does for work or like, or what his hobby is. What's behind that? That desperate energy of like, like, are.

Nicole [01:02:57]: You the stone cold facts?

John [01:03:00]: Exactly. Like, do you make enough money? Do you like, you know, like that's like, that's like, it's, it's giving the vibe of I'm trying to get a husband.

Nicole [01:03:08]: No, my friend, she went, when she went on her first date with her now boyfriend, they've been dating for a while.

John [01:03:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:15]: I told her to ask him what kind of pasta he would be and she did.

John [01:03:18]: That's good.

Nicole [01:03:19]: And he said, bow tie pasta. And she was like, why? And he gave a really good answer. But it's like, even women, like you said, need to have fun with it. And the thing is too, when I would go on dates, if a guy was like. Because guys can ask boring ass questions too. Trust me, they're the worst. They'll be like, so what are you doing today?

John [01:03:33]: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's.

Nicole [01:03:34]: I mean, like, I would try to make it fun, right? Because I'm like, he's obviously going to be a little dry. Let me see if I can make it fun. And then if he's continued to be dry, then, you know, it is what it is. Because I need, you know, I'm here to have fun like, and meet people. Right. So everyone should be doing that for sure. And it gives desperate energy. No matter who you are, if you're going into a date saying, I'm looking for this, it doesn't give. Like, I know what I want. Like people think that it does.

John [01:04:01]: Yeah, it's just like sales, like if I, if I get on the sales call with someone and I'm like, okay, so at the end of this call, I want you to buy the product that I'm selling you. Like, I want you to give me $10,000.

Nicole [01:04:11]: Right. Like, that's not going to work.

John [01:04:13]: We're not going to have any kind.

Nicole [01:04:14]: Of people just need to know if you're going on a date. Yeah, it could potentially lead to marriage. And that's all you need. Yeah, it's a date. That's how you potentially lead to marriage. Or you could lead to the bedroom. But the thing is, that's all you need. You don't have to be like, I'm looking for marriage. If you're going on a date, I'm assuming you're trying to find your partner for the rest of your life, but you're not in a rush to do that, Right?

John [01:04:41]: Because that's what flirting is. Flirting is dangling the carrot in front the possibility.

Nicole [01:04:47]: Right.

John [01:04:48]: That's what flirting is, is dangling the possibility.

Nicole [01:04:50]: Like, are you good enough to be my husband? Are you good enough to be my wife? We gotta figure it out.

John [01:04:55]: It's a mystery we gotta solve. Are you good enough to have sex with? But that's flirting. Flirting is dangling the possibility.

Nicole [01:05:02]: Okay. Yes.

John [01:05:03]: Okay.

Nicole [01:05:03]: My last thing is, I wrote down a quote. He said something about turned him on so much it made him commit. I just wrote no exclamation point.

John [01:05:15]: Well, no, no, no. Okay. This is what we talked about is like. Yeah, the words.

Nicole [01:05:20]: Putting it on the women to turn the man on so much that it made him commit. And it's the men trying to get laid who should be turning her on to have sex with him.

John [01:05:31]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's. Turned on isn't the word. Like, turned on doesn't always mean sexually.

Nicole [01:05:37]: What does it mean then?

John [01:05:38]: It can mean, like, turned on to. Right. Like, so. So he said, that's bad words, actually. So you're right on that.

Nicole [01:05:44]: Yeah, it is.

John [01:05:45]: Because. But. But it's like what we were saying about the conquering of. Like. Like made him fall so hard in love with her that he was forced to commit, that he killed the dragon. Slayed the dragon, that he, you know, flew 3,000 miles to be with her. You see what I'm saying? Like, that's the thing. But she needs to feel like he forsook. Forsook all other.

Nicole [01:06:07]: For. Sucked.

John [01:06:08]: For sucked. He forsooked all other women. He forsook all other women to be with her. But there has to be all other women. If there's not all other women.

Nicole [01:06:20]: Imaginary. All other women.

John [01:06:21]: He forsook all anime girls.

Nicole [01:06:24]: All imaginary women that he made up in his mind.

John [01:06:28]: Exactly. So that is a significant thing that the woman feels like she did. She was worthy of. She made this man so compelled to be with her. That's what makes her fall in love with him.

Nicole [01:06:42]: Right. Because the wording is bad if he didn't mean it that way. Because I also wrote that this is women's problem already. Because it made it seem like if he wants sex and then she gives him sex and it turned him on so much, then he'll commit to her. And women try that technique because of things like this. They hear something like this and it never works.

John [01:07:05]: No, that's never gonna work.

Nicole [01:07:06]: It never works because even the people who have sex on the first date and end up getting married, there was. There was something else there. It wasn't because you gave the man what he wanted. And then now he wants to marry you.

John [01:07:19]: Yeah, it is possible, though. What's strange is the reverse is possible, though. If you're a guy and you give a woman the best sex of her life, she might just marry you. I mean, like, it doesn't work the other way around. Women think if they give the guy the best sex of their life. Because we talked about it before, a guy's scale of pleasure goes from like one to ten. A woman's goes to one to a thousand.

Nicole [01:07:41]: I don't recommend that. He better be amazing at that and amazing in other ways, because you'll still have problems. But not.

John [01:07:50]: But it can work. It can work that. But yeah. It doesn't work. How? Women.

Nicole [01:07:54]: There's got to be other things.

John [01:07:55]: It doesn't work for women. Women are trying to do that and they think that'll work. And that's not gonna work.

Nicole [01:08:00]: No. You can't think you're gonna blow a man's mind into him marrying you.

John [01:08:05]: No. No.

Nicole [01:08:06]: But. Yeah. So.

John [01:08:08]: Yeah. Okay. Do we have. We don't have anything, do we?

Nicole [01:08:14]: I don't think so.

John [01:08:14]: I think we're good.

Nicole [01:08:17]: We are.

John [01:08:18]: No dirty laundry. No, dirty. Some dirty, but not laundry. Not the. Some dirty lingerie. All right, well, yeah. Follow us. Send us a question. So no one has sent us a question.

Nicole [01:08:34]: Oh, someone on YouTube commented and said we should do a call in type of show, which I know we've talked about before. So maybe we'll figure that out.

John [01:08:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:08:45]: But if you want to be the first call in person again, you can send us an email.

John [01:08:49]: Yeah, we can. We can kind of schedule it or.

Nicole [01:08:52]: If you'd rather us just read.

John [01:08:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:08:55]: You know, and keep it anonymous. But.

John [01:08:57]: Yeah, but you can find our site@betterthanperfectpod.com and from there, I mean, that's where all the others. We should just send people there because you can find. You can email us from there, all the things you can do from there. So true. Yeah, we'll see you next week.