John [00:00:00]: Even though she's leaving you, you still have to have her come back on your term. She comes back to you because she sees that she. That you're a man that she wants to be with, and she doesn't want to lose you. You can't beg and gravel at her feet because if it did work, you'd be setting yourself up for failure. Because now she would be holding all the cards in a relationship, and she would be the dominant one in the relationship.

Nicole [00:00:20]: She's going to be even more masculine.

John [00:00:21]: Exactly. You got to step up and be the leader. The only way that she's going to allow you to be the leader is if she actually comes back to you, rather than you chasing her down. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other.

Unknown [00:00:38]: Better than perfect.

John [00:00:40]: We stay through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:57]: That's right.

John [00:00:58]: Almost forgot my lines.

Nicole [00:01:00]: Did you?

John [00:01:00]: I was like, I know this.

Nicole [00:01:04]: I can't tell if you almost forgot them or if you're trying to act like you almost forgot them.

John [00:01:10]: Yeah, well, I did try to play it off. It was, like, all happening very fast because I almost forgot them. And then I was like, oh, let me just act like I almost forgot them.

Unknown [00:01:17]: Oh. And then.

John [00:01:18]: So.

Nicole [00:01:18]: Yeah, so it was all happening.

Unknown [00:01:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:20]: Okay. So I was right in all the things. All the things were happening at once.

John [00:01:26]: That's true. So today, I mean, we might as well just jump right into it. We're going to talk about how a man who is on the brink of divorce because his wife wants to divorce him can save his marriage. How he can bring her back from the edge.

Nicole [00:01:45]: Win her back.

Unknown [00:01:46]: Yeah.

John [00:01:47]: Win her back. How you can win back. Win back your wife. I guess we could say that's good.

Unknown [00:01:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:52]: So looking at me like, I. Yes, I have all the answers.

John [00:01:58]: No, I. I mean, I. I think that this is a pretty common problem.

Unknown [00:02:01]: Right.

John [00:02:01]: I. I've dealt with a lot of guys that have. Have dealt with this issue. We've talked about this a lot on podcast about kind of when a woman gets to that point and she's done.

Nicole [00:02:11]: And then men feel blindsided, but they weren't paying attention to all the exact little, you know, what. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, the hints that it was happening.

Unknown [00:02:23]: Yeah.

John [00:02:24]: So that maybe we could talk first about, like, why does it happen?

Nicole [00:02:29]: I think that's good.

Unknown [00:02:30]: Right.

John [00:02:31]: And maybe Even some of the hints.

Nicole [00:02:33]: Yeah.

John [00:02:33]: You know, that. That this is happening, and then we can talk about how to fix it.

Nicole [00:02:37]: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

John [00:02:39]: So why does this happen most of the time? In most of the cases, it's because you hear this a lot from women, is that she'll say, I don't feel like I have a partner.

Unknown [00:02:52]: Right.

John [00:02:52]: And translating that, what does that mean?

Nicole [00:02:56]: That she's doing all the things and he's not paying attention or putting in the effort and actively trying to help. Like trying to figure out how he could help. He's not even asking, does she need help? He's just going about his day and doing what he needs to do, and she's picking up all the slack, and he doesn't even notice it because it's being picked up by her.

Unknown [00:03:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:21]: But then she's getting resentment because he's not even offering to help. He's not even paying attention enough in her mind to know that she's struggling.

Unknown [00:03:34]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:34]: And granted, she needs to communicate with him, but, you know, he's kind of just going through life and she's drowning.

Unknown [00:03:43]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:03:44]: Waiting for him again to kind of like, not read her mind, but use his logic to pick up on what's actually happening and the environment in the house.

Unknown [00:03:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:54]: And it's not happening, and it hasn't happened for a really long time. And so then she. It's like, well, if I'm doing it all on my own anyway, I should just be on my own.

Unknown [00:04:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:05]: And sometimes women feel honestly like their spouse is another child, which is even worse. That's going to cause even more resentment if she feels like you're not even handling yourself properly. Which, again, women need to kind of let men handle themselves in a way. But if she feels like she's having to take care of the kids and you and do all the other stuff.

Unknown [00:04:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:36]: She's gonna choose to get a divorce so that she can get rid of.

John [00:04:40]: One giant kid, one set of laundry.

Nicole [00:04:42]: Get rid of one.

John [00:04:43]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:04:44]: One equation that should be able to do it on their own.

Unknown [00:04:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:49]: And then that would make things easier for her, actually, in the long run, because she's already doing it all herself anyway.

Unknown [00:04:55]: Yeah. Yeah.

John [00:04:56]: A lot of times this happens when you're both working.

Unknown [00:05:00]: Right.

John [00:05:01]: Because she's working and then taking care of the other stuff. And especially when you have kids, because then she's working and she's taking care of the kid. The guy's acting like, oh, it's the wife's job to take Care of the kid. Okay, yes, maybe if she's not working.

Nicole [00:05:17]: Yeah, right.

John [00:05:18]: But even then.

Nicole [00:05:19]: And she's making dinner and she's.

John [00:05:21]: But even then, even if she's not working, you can still not feel like a partnership because she's trying to share with you or help get you to help make decisions about things, and then you're deferring to her on all of them, like, oh, whatever you want. Or like, yeah, like, it doesn't. I don't care. Like, whatever. However you want to do it, like, is fine with me.

Unknown [00:05:39]: Right.

John [00:05:40]: That might seem like you're being agreeable.

Nicole [00:05:42]: Yeah.

John [00:05:43]: But you're not. That's not what women are seeking. They're seeking to feel like it's a partnership, like you're making decisions together, like. Or that you're making the decision and she's giving me the input to be the leader, to make the decision, because that's what she wants from you. She wants leadership. She wants guidance. She doesn't want to just be in charge of everything because otherwise, why does she need you? And it doesn't feel like she feels alone, even though you're together, because there's no communication happening about what's happening. She's just got to do her job and that's it. No appreciation, no thanks for doing that. It's just expected of her to do the job right. Whereas even just a simple thing of caring about the kid's schedule for their soccer practice or whatever it is, or caring about what you want to eat for dinner that she's making.

Unknown [00:06:32]: Right.

John [00:06:33]: Those.

Nicole [00:06:33]: Noticing things. Anything. Yeah.

John [00:06:37]: So. Yeah. So that happens for a long period of time. And she doesn't say anything necessarily. But.

Nicole [00:06:45]: And.

John [00:06:46]: And I think as a man, you don't even notice it because everything's going smooth. Like, the. All the things are being taken care of, laundry's being done. Kids are taking care of all the things. She's taking care of all the stuff.

Nicole [00:06:56]: Yeah.

John [00:06:57]: You're doing your work. Doing. Doing your stuff. Everything's going smooth. You guys are making good money, whatever it is.

Nicole [00:07:02]: Yeah. I was going to say, actually, like, before we move on too far, like.

Unknown [00:07:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:06]: What are men thinking when this is happening? Like, I know that it's probably hard for you to think of because I don't think you've ever been this type of man, but what do you think? Like, I know. I agree with you that I think men are genuinely, like, they're just. They're singular focused. So they're focused on one thing, and they don't even notice A lot of this going on around them. But I feel like there are things that he should pick up on or, like, he should be, like, more aware of, like, what is happening. Like, we just talked about what's happening in the woman's world. What's happening to men in this situation. Situation.

John [00:07:44]: Men are treating her like another man, and they're like, okay, well, she's taking care of this stuff, I'm taking care of this stuff. And so, you know, she's doing her job, I'm doing my job, Everything's good. That's how it's supposed to be.

Nicole [00:07:57]: Does he think it's fair? Because in those instances where, like, she's working and she's doing all that stuff, he thinks that's fair.

John [00:08:04]: Well, let's take two instances of it, right? And also a man's ego, right? So one instance is where you're both working, one is where she's staying home. So in the one that. Where you're both working, okay, the man thinks his job is more important because. And it's not even like, it's because that's how men. We are as men. What I'm doing in life, my purpose, my mission, my work, it's super important because that's what I am. I'm a man. Like, I do stuff like it's important. My job is super important. You know what I mean? Every man thinks his job is super important, right? So it's not that he doesn't necessarily think that the woman. He just takes that more for granted as the default because, hey, he's doing important stuff. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to take care of the kids and make the dinner and stuff, because I'm doing important stuff, even though she might be working as well. You know what I'm saying? That's what is going on in his mind. And it's not like an intentional thing. It's just that not even noticing it. It's like, okay, well, she's got her stuff handled. She doesn't seem to be complaining. She seems to be handling all of this stuff, right? So I think that's what's happening a lot. But then you have the scenario where the woman's not working. And so then he really thinks, okay, well, yeah, I'm doing the important stuff, right? And so can she not handle the other stuff while I'm handling this stuff? And that's what he's thinking. But he doesn't realize that she wants a partner, that she's willing to do the work, but she just wants some input on it. She just wants to feel like what she's doing actually contributes to the team and that he cares about the contribution and is going to give her some direction towards it. But he's not thinking that way. He's just thinking, hey, we're both working in tandem. We're getting our done. Like, we're. We're power couple. Like, we're, you know, getting. Building our future. Like, so. In fact, what happens, this is why guys get so taken by surprise is because they're thinking, power couple. We're building our future. We're saving. We're going to buy this big house. We're going to get the vacation home. We're like, like the money in the bank accounts going up. Everything is good. This is so good, right? She's taking care of all this stuff. I'm taking care of all this stuff. That's what he's thinking in his head, and that's why he gets blindsided. He's like, why is she suddenly unhappy now? Like, everything's going so good. How could she be unhappy?

Nicole [00:10:24]: I get it.

John [00:10:25]: I'm just telling you what they think.

Nicole [00:10:27]: How do so many men, though, grow up not really thinking of considering other people? I guess that's my thing. Like, is it the singular focus or is it that he's, like, just not considering the other person in this equation? Like, look, what do you think it mostly is? Like, I get that you think it's like, oh, we're building together, but like, he genuinely never thinks, like, oh, she's probably tired. Like, she did a lot of stuff today. He did. Men don't think like that. Really.

John [00:11:00]: Because he's tired. Because he did a lot of stuff. Because men have usually in general, have a larger capacity to do work, and so they're doing more work. Or in their mind, at least.

Unknown [00:11:09]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:10]: I was going to say, if a woman's going to work and she's picking up the kids and she's making dinner and she's doing laundry, that man is.

John [00:11:17]: Not doing more work. But in his mind, he still is because of the job that he's doing that's more important than her job.

Unknown [00:11:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:24]: So that seems like a competition.

John [00:11:26]: I get it. But that's because they're both in the masculine, because he's not allowing her to be in her feminine.

Unknown [00:11:30]: Right.

John [00:11:31]: And so it's. And it's not even. Like a lot of these guys in this situation, they honestly think they're doing right because. Because again, you're like, okay, well, how can a guy not learn to care about other people. Most men, unless they learn otherwise, they think caring about other people is making sure that they have food and clothes. Like, is. Is like taking care of their physical needs, not their emotional needs. That's the difference. Is. Right? Because many men, right? Especially if you go back older generations, it's like being a man is taking care of people's physical needs. Like, hey, money, food, shelter, right? Like, that's what it is. That's what they were given. That's why their parents, you know, like a lot of dads, their parents, you know, your grandfathers and stuff, they. They didn't really show love to their kids because they're like, this is how I show love to my kids, is by taking care of their physical needs. I don't need to take care of their emotional needs. That's not even a concept that registers many times. And so a man thinks he's doing everything right by taking care of a woman and his children's physical needs, but doesn't think about the emotional needs.

Nicole [00:12:44]: But even if he's only contributing 50% of that, like, he doesn't think about that she's also contributing the other 50 and doing other stuff.

John [00:12:52]: You know, I'm on the side of a woman should never have to work.

Nicole [00:12:56]: Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying.

John [00:12:57]: But I agree. But again, like I said, in a lot of men's minds, because men are so centered around their work that they have blinders on. And they see their work as more important no matter what it is, no matter how much money she's making or how much work she's doing. Because that's how men are. And that's. It's not selfish. It's not a selfish thing. Because the thought about it is that I'm doing this for my family. I'm taking care of their physical needs, right? So what.

Unknown [00:13:26]: It.

John [00:13:27]: It. It's. But that's why women shouldn't have to work. Like, the man should be fully taken care of because he. When a woman is working, he will neglect to value her contribution, unfortunately. And again, this is not even meant to bash men. This is just blinders that men have because they are designed to be so focused on their purpose and to make their mission so important in their life that they see their mission as more important than other people's missions.

Nicole [00:13:54]: Okay?

John [00:13:56]: And it's a good thing to be wired that way. But it also means that the benefit of that is that when you are the sole protector and provider and sole breadwinner, then that's a very good way to be wired. But when you do a 50 50, it's not a very good way to be wired because then it appears to be extremely selfish and very, like, inconsiderate. And that's how it comes across. And this is where the whole problem happens. Not to say that you couldn't have a situation where the wife works. I don't think that she should, but you can still have that work. But then as a man, you have to understand and still allow her to be feminine and still understand, like, what is the contribution that she's making. And then still being the leader, stepping up, it's like, yeah, maybe she's doing more of the. Of the. Dealing with the kids, but are you leading that? Are you helping making the decisions? Are you participating in that? You know what I mean? But it is also very unfair to think that if you are both working regular jobs, that she's gonna then pick up the housework and the kids and all that other stuff. Like, you know, you can't have it both ways.

Nicole [00:15:03]: Yeah. So you better learn to cook if you're 50. 50.

Unknown [00:15:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:08]: And change some diapers.

Unknown [00:15:10]: Yeah, yeah.

John [00:15:10]: But, but, but I would say it's not even in many cases. In most of these cases, it's not.

Nicole [00:15:15]: Even about doing the stuff.

John [00:15:17]: Yeah, it's. It's not about the division of the labor or the work. Like, a lot of women will say that it is, and they think that it is, but it's not really about that. It's about the feeling alone, the appreciation, and the.

Nicole [00:15:27]: Like you said, working together as a team, because. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's not about evenly dividing it up. Even though I feel like you should try to do that in some point. But I feel like if you care enough and you are working as a team, like you said, you don't even have to focus if it's even or not, because you'll feel like the man is invested in not only his job, but his family and his marriage. And so that kind of irons out a lot of the problems rather than. Because even if he took half the stuff, but he, like, didn't really care. He just came home and did his chores and then didn't really interact or ever, like, say anything or be a part of it. That's not gonna fix the problem.

John [00:16:13]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:14]: It's the feeling. It's the connection. And feeling like he cares just as much about his job that he does about his family and his wife when he comes home.

John [00:16:24]: Exactly. And who's ever doing the most work is the Man. Because the man should be doing the most work. So if you're working a job and she's working a job and she's taking care of the house and the kids, then she's the man. So you need to respect her like the man. Okay. Because she's the man.

Unknown [00:16:42]: Right.

John [00:16:42]: So as a man, you should be willing to do more. That's what it means to be a man. Again, I talk about all the time that men don't have pride.

Nicole [00:16:51]: Yeah.

John [00:16:51]: You shouldn't even compare because you should be like, I'm doing way more. And that's okay, because that's what I should be doing. Because if you're not doing more as a man, if you're not working harder, then you're not the man. Then she's the man. Like, you should be allowing her to have as much free time as possible to be feminine, to be relaxed.

Unknown [00:17:11]: Right.

John [00:17:11]: Which will benefit you as a man in many departments. So that's what you should be doing. And so again, even if your wife is going to work, which, again, I am opposed to that, but sure, okay. It's whatever. I can understand. Some people are in that situation. Then you should still be trying to take as much of the load off of her as possible and appreciating that she's working to add some contribution to the family, to the financial situation, but taking everything else off of her as much as possible because she's doing enough by even putting any amount of actual physical labor outside the home into the contribution of your house. Right. Because she's essentially assisting you to be the man.

Unknown [00:17:55]: Right.

John [00:17:55]: Because the man's supposed to be the provider, and so she's actually helping you be the man. So you should probably take all the other stuff off of her so that you appreciate that she's assisting you and be the man. Because you can't be the man right now on your own, which is going to make a lot of little men cry. But that's the truth. But you can get out of that situation and become the sole breadwinner, which you should be striving to do. Like I. Like I. I'm gonna stop pulling the punches because that's the truth.

Nicole [00:18:22]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like, too, it would be hard to take those things away from a woman that's been doing all those things too, because now she might not trust you to actually do them because you would have done them earlier. And maybe some of the stuff you don't even know how to do because you've had your blinders on and you haven't done it at all.

Unknown [00:18:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:40]: So that's also gonna be a challenge. But I do think it's what's necessary. And she might resist you at first because she doesn't trust that you're gonna actually do it or do it properly or care enough to really do the task correctly.

Unknown [00:18:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:56]: But I agree with you that that's like, you have to invest in your marriage and in your relationship and your family. If you've just been going with your blinders on for who knows how long and now your wife is resenting you, like, you have. You have a lot of stuff you have to step up and do, and you have to do it for long enough where she feels like she can trust you at this point, because the trust has been broken for a long time because she's been waiting for you to wake up and be like, okay, honey, I'm ready to, like, be involved in our family now. I'm ready to do the stuff.

Unknown [00:19:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:29]: And constantly she's been let down. And again, like, yes, she should have a conversation with you. But I also think, like, realistically, I don't think she should have to ask for a man to be involved in his, like, family life.

John [00:19:46]: Plus, she's already had. Tried to have the conversations with you many times.

Nicole [00:19:50]: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.

John [00:19:51]: And you didn't recognize what it was. You thought she was just complaining. You thought she was just nagging you. Maybe she didn't handle it in the best way, but she's already had the conversation many, many times. She's already given you the chance. She's already given you the warning and told you that I can't take this anymore. But you didn't understand what she was saying.

Nicole [00:20:07]: Right.

John [00:20:07]: You didn't think it was real. She's giving you the hints because she was just continuing to be a workhorse, and you continue to take it for granted, and now it's too late.

Nicole [00:20:16]: Psych hacks. Who's actually the workhorse?

John [00:20:21]: But, you know, but this is. Like, I'm saying this again. It's not to bash men. It's to help them understand. Because I've dealt with this so many. Like, there's a reason why I'm able to recite this out of my head, and I'm not a woman. It's because I've dealt with so many men that are dealing with the situation. And when I dissect it and I hear what he's telling me the woman is saying, then I translate that, and I know what it really, really means.

Nicole [00:20:46]: Yeah. This isn't to make them feel bad. It's to teach them, because obviously they've never been taught and it's okay. But you also have to take the responsibility to learn this because your relationship will not succeed if you don't step up and hold yourself accountable. That this is something you never learned, and it's something you have to learn.

Unknown [00:21:06]: Yeah.

John [00:21:07]: And then the second thing. So that was kind of. We're still kind of on the thing, like, the reasons why it happened. So the second one I would say, which is kind of related, is that she doesn't feel emotional safety. So when she does have emotions, you're trying to suppress those emotions. You're trying to not allow her to express those emotions. You're telling her to suck it up or whatever it is. Like you're not validating how she feels. And that's happened for a long enough time that she doesn't feel like she can come to you, that she doesn't feel like she can express how she feels. She feels wrong for feeling feelings.

Unknown [00:21:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:51]: Yeah. No, for sure.

John [00:21:54]: Sorry. Okay. The itchy nose. But, yeah, but I mean, that's the big thing, too, is just like, not understanding how to allow a woman to vent and, you know, taking it all personally. Like, defending everything that she has an issue with.

Nicole [00:22:15]: Yeah.

Unknown [00:22:15]: Yeah.

John [00:22:16]: Especially when she's trying to bring up the conversation about the thing, and then you're getting logical and rationalizing and saying, no, no, I did the dishes yesterday or whatever, instead of hearing the thing behind the thing, which is that she needs your help.

Nicole [00:22:31]: She wants you to be involved. Yeah.

John [00:22:33]: Exact.

Nicole [00:22:35]: To men's defense.

John [00:22:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:39]: There are oftentimes, too, though, that women do not provide an emotional, safe space for men as well either.

Unknown [00:22:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:47]: And so then they're like, I'm not going, you know, I'm not going to allow her to talk about her emotions if I can't talk about mine. And that happens vice versa with both people. But as a man, you should be the leader. And even if she's messing up, you should be leading by example. And I get that that's hard, and it's easy for me to say as a woman.

Unknown [00:23:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:23:06]: But it will influence her and it will help her and it'll help you as well, too.

Unknown [00:23:15]: Yeah, exactly.

John [00:23:18]: And I mean, I really think that's. That's pretty much the two primary reasons. Like, I don't think there's really other things that are usually going on. It's usually those two things have been happening for a long time where she just feels like she doesn't have a part, and she doesn't have. You know, for a woman, the strength of a relationship is important, the most important thing. Men build their lives around their work, and women build their lives around their man or their relationship. And so you might not see a problem as a man, but if she doesn't see leadership and growth in the relationship, then she sees a problem. So one, she feels like she doesn't have a partnership, and two, she doesn't feel like she can communicate to you. So then she feels isolated on her own. So then she's already been living the single life for a long enough time that the divorce comes easy for her. Because she's like, I'm already living in isolation. I already don't feel like I have a partner. So the only difference is now I have one less person to do their laundry. That's a benefit, not a detriment.

Nicole [00:24:26]: And that's why men get so dumbfounded, right? They're like, how could this be so easy for her? And divorce is a lot of times easier for women than it is for men because like you've said, they've already checked out. They've already been feeling like they're on their own. So actually being on their own is actually more beneficial to them than being alone in a house with someone else. Like, everybody talks about how the worst loneliness you can feel is when you're with someone else, not when you're by yourself.

John [00:24:56]: Exactly.

Unknown [00:24:57]: Yeah.

John [00:24:58]: And at that point, too, I guess the hint part of it is that she stopped your fighting has gone down because she stopped fighting with you, because she stopped engaging with you because.

Nicole [00:25:08]: Because she's checking out like she doesn't even care to. To argue, to try to repair or anything. It doesn't matter anymore.

John [00:25:16]: And then the real danger that happens, and this is where it becomes extremely hard if it's gotten to this point, is that a woman, especially if she's working, right? This is why most affairs happen in the workplace, is that she finds a man that she might not even had a sexual interest in, but he starts listening to her. He starts hearing what she's saying. She starts to feel like she's being seen again, and now she's being paid attention to. And now this guy's actually interested in her and her life and what's going on with her and is listening to.

Nicole [00:25:51]: Her emotions and seems like he cares about her and is involved.

John [00:25:56]: And when she's been starved for that for so long, what will she give that up for? Nothing. Not even for her kids. Like unfortunately, many times. Not always the case. But I'm just giving the psychology behind this as to why women get into affairs like this, and they will give up everything in their life for this affair. Because it's not about the man. It's about what he represents. It's about what he's giving her that she has been starved for for such a long time, that she creates such a strong attachment to this that she'll give up everything else in life. And you're like, this woman's crazy. Why would she throw away her whole family in her life and all of these things just for this fling, this relationship with this guy? Because it's not about the guy at all. Because as soon as you actually get the divorce, she's gonna break up with this guy. Whatever. Like, it's not gonna. It might not even last. It's because he's. It's the starvation of these things that he's suddenly giving her and that she doesn't want to lose.

Nicole [00:26:52]: Yeah, that's the thing.

John [00:26:53]: And that's why it's so dangerous. And that's why it's so hard for a man to win a woman back if she's gone to that stage.

Nicole [00:27:00]: Yeah. Once a woman's checked out, it's really hard to win her back because she's.

John [00:27:04]: Got the thing that she's been wanting. And then you're now coming in as the husband who for so many years didn't give it to her. And now you're like, now that she's got something that she likes, now you're like, no, no, no, I want to take that from you, too. And I. And you're supposed to trust me that I'm going to give you that thing.

Nicole [00:27:21]: Right. Even though I haven't for years.

John [00:27:24]: And then when you do. And so then what happens to get further into this is you as a. As a man trying to win her back, start doing all these things, buying her flowers, started paying attention to her. And she acts in a very surprising way, she acts hateful towards that. It pisses her off more. And you're like, why is that pissing her off more? It's because it feels like you're trying to.

Nicole [00:27:46]: She wanted. Anyway.

John [00:27:47]: It feels like you're trying to take away the thing that she's got.

Nicole [00:27:50]: Well, and she doesn't want gifts. She wants attention. She wants someone engaged in her and her life. Who cares?

Unknown [00:27:58]: Right?

Nicole [00:27:58]: That's why gifts piss off women. And that's why when we did the episode in the Maldives when I was like, women don't want your gifts. They don't. Like, they would give up everything for a man that gives a shit about them. Like you said, the guy at the office who actually she feels like gives a shit about her.

John [00:28:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:18]: She'd risk it all for that. Like, men think women want money and they want gifts. No, they want to feel like they matter to you. They want to feel like you care about them and that you want to be involved in her life and create a life together and work together. Like you said, as a team. That's what they want.

Unknown [00:28:36]: Yeah.

John [00:28:36]: And you can say it's right or wrong. Like, obviously, having an affair is wrong.

Unknown [00:28:40]: Right.

John [00:28:41]: Cheating is wrong. But at the same time, whether it's right or wrong or not, this is the reality of what is likely to happen and the psychology behind it. And so whether it's right or you can be like, oh, she's wrong, it doesn't matter. She still feels that way. And that's not. It's not gonna fix it by telling her that she's wrong or that she's a sinner or whatever it is. Like, yeah, that might be true, but it doesn't matter.

Nicole [00:29:03]: Well, and we're trying to tell you this so that hopefully it doesn't get to the part where your wife is having an affair, because you can turn it around, and you should turn it around, and you should be looking for signs that maybe you are checked out in your family and your marriage and that your wife feels like she's carrying the entire, you know, load of what goes on at home and if she goes to work as well, too.

John [00:29:29]: So let's talk about the right thing to do to actually win her back. So it's contrary to what you think as a man. It's not buying her gifts. Like I said, it's just gonna piss her off. It's not suddenly showering her with attention and telling her how much you love her. That's also going to piss her off. Because that's not what she. Because it feels like you're only doing.

Nicole [00:29:51]: That because you lost her or you're about to.

John [00:29:54]: Exactly. Like. And it also feels like, why didn't you do this before?

Unknown [00:29:59]: Right.

John [00:29:59]: It took this. Now that I don't care anymore. Now you. Now you do again. You're trying to rip away this thing. Like, I'm. Even if she's not having an affair, she's not thinking about her freedom and what her life is going to be like when she doesn't have to do your laundry. And now you're trying to Take that away from her. Like, you know what I'm saying? That's what it feels like. And so what you really have to do as a man is to just start showing up and being consistent, doing the things like improving yourself, becoming a better man yourself. Not for her, for you. You have to do it for you. She has to see that you as a man have realized that you're living below your standards and that you not to win her back, but you, because you don't want that she gave you a wake up call, that you're not being the man that you should be. And that causes you to raise your standards and start acting and behaving in a way that you respect yourself not chasing her down. And so what does that mean? It might mean now you get up in the morning and you go to the gym and you work out. And it means that you take care of the stuff that you need to do at work, and then you come home and you take care without her asking or anything and without being like, oh, look what I did. You feed the kids, you take care of the kids, you take care of the laundry or the stuff. You don't ask, you don't negotiate it. You don't say, look, I'll do this for you. You just start doing it because you're living like a man that has a higher standard. She starts to see that. She starts to respect you. She starts to see that you're consistently doing this over time, that it's not just something you're doing to win her back. It's not just something that you're doing as a game, whatever it is, that you're just trying to trick her, then she starts to believe it, right?

Nicole [00:31:42]: It's easier for her to believe it and trust you again if you do it that way. Because like you said, if you're like, oh, look what I'm doing, or like, what can I do for you? Or all those things, like, you're still not really getting it. That's what she's gonna think. If you're asking her what you can do for her. If you're like trying to show off that you're doing these things, it's not gonna feel genuine and she's. It's not even gonna register to her because she's still it. It takes what you said, you just doing the things and being the man, not looking for a round of applause from her or whatever and consistently doing that for her to realize that you're serious about this. And that's the only way to pull her out of her single mindset at this point. This point. Because once a woman is set in something, like I said before.

John [00:32:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:32:34]: It's very hard to pull her out. And the only way is for you to have respect for yourself and show up in the way that you'd mentioned and prove it by actions, not by words, not by trying to show it off.

Unknown [00:32:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:32:50]: And consistently do it. Because she's not going to take you back when she set her mind on not taking you back.

Unknown [00:32:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:32:56]: Unless she knows that if she takes you back, you're never going to fall back into that line again. And I'm not saying that you're not going to make a mistake or two.

Unknown [00:33:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:04]: Like, that's not realistic. And I doubt she believes that too. She's not expecting you to be 100% perfect, but you have to be so consistent with these things that she feels like if she commits to this again and gets back into this with you, that she has full faith that you will not revert back to the man that you were before.

John [00:33:24]: Yeah, exactly.

Unknown [00:33:24]: Yeah.

John [00:33:25]: And it's got to be enough time has to be consistency over time, you know, not talks. Like having the talk of, like, oh, we had so much years together and what would you really want to leave.

Nicole [00:33:38]: Our kids and not guilting her into it.

John [00:33:41]: None of that's not going to work. Or talking about the old times when you got together and you had, like, that's not going to work. It's going to just push her away more.

Unknown [00:33:48]: Right.

John [00:33:49]: Because it feels like you're chasing her.

Nicole [00:33:50]: And forcing her and it feels manipulative. Like, what about this? You know, like, no, like, all you need to do is step up and do the things that she's been asking for consistently, like you said. And that will get you what you want. Not like using any other type of tactic to get her out of that mindset.

John [00:34:07]: And if you are going to have a conversation, then the conversation would be something like not even trying to, like, convince her otherwise, just to be like, look, when you said that you wanted a divorce, it was a real wake up call for me, that I'm not showing up how I need to as a man. And I don't expect you to just take my word for it. But I recognize what I did. I recognize that I haven't been a very good partner for you, that I have not been involved in the situations and decisions in the house and that I've let you take a lot of the load or whatever the thing is. And I recognize that I haven't been there for you emotionally and have listened to you and say all those things and then say. And it's made me realize that. And don't promise that you're going to change or do all those things. Just do it. Because if you get into the I promise I'm going to do this and all this stuff, she's going to challenge you. You're getting into an argument. It's not going to just. If you're going to apologize, say the things that you recognize that you do and then just show her by example that you're living up to be the man to make up for those things. And don't. And don't try to convince her to come back. Like it seems really weird to say that, but don't, because she doesn't necessarily want to leave. She didn't want the marriage to fall apart.

Unknown [00:35:29]: Right.

John [00:35:30]: But if you start doing those things, then you have to woo her back because that's how you got her in the first place. And I think the other thing is that men don't understand how far. Just like you're saying how far women are by the time that this has happened because they think that she's saying, I want to get a divorce, that she's still making the decision.

Unknown [00:35:50]: Right.

John [00:35:51]: That she, like, she's so far past that at the point where she's already mourned the relationship, she's already given it.

Nicole [00:35:57]: Up, she's already mentally got a divorce. Now she's just physically getting a divorce from you.

John [00:36:02]: In fact, a lot of times what women are doing in that phase is that they've already decided a year ago they're going to get a divorce, and now they're gathering their resources, they're up upskilling their, their, their, their skills for work, they're going to the gym, they're preparing to be single, and they're not actually going to say they want a divorce until they feel like they're ready to make it out on their own. And because they can't trust that they're not going to use what I'm saying. So at that, you have to understand as a man, like, what stage she's actually at and realize that convincing her at this point is not like you have to woo her back to you and her back.

Unknown [00:36:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:38]: Only actions.

Unknown [00:36:39]: Yeah.

John [00:36:41]: And even then, at that point, to be honest, the probability is small. If she's still there in the house, then you have a much higher chance because then she can actually see you stepping up as a man. But even then, you've let it go to that far that it's. You have to ultimately, as a man at this point, accept that. That it's enough for you, that this is a wake up call for you and it changes your life and you start stepping up and you learn for the future and become a better man. But you can't be like, I absolutely have to get her back. Because, you know, because if you're, if you have that mindset, you're going to be doing it for the wrong reason. Because she wants to see that you're doing it because you realize you're changing. Exactly.

Nicole [00:37:28]: Yeah. Not that you're doing it for her. Yeah. Because if you're changing for you again, it feels more permanent and like, it's actually gonna stick than if you're just trying to get her back because she'll feel like, oh, well, he's just gonna go back to what he was doing once he gets me again. And I can't. I'm not dealing with that. So you're 1000% right that you have to do it for you and you have to commit to doing it for the rest of your life. Like, you have to be that man.

Unknown [00:37:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:55]: You can't just be that man. Even if you're doing it for yourself until you get her back. Because if you fall back into that hard again, like, if you make a few mistakes, I don't think that she'll hold it against you. But if you fall back into that cycle again, she's gone instantly. Like, that flip will be switched immediately. Yeah, the switch will be flipped immediately. And yeah, like, it won't even take as long as it did the first time.

Unknown [00:38:23]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:23]: Because at that point, you've betrayed her twice. And that's the thing is women feel betrayed. They feel like they signed up for marriage and they recorded.

Unknown [00:38:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:31]: And then they get married. And now the man doesn't even pay attention to her. Not even romance her. Pay attention to her.

Unknown [00:38:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:40]: And so, yeah, she's gonna be like, why did I even do this? Why did I even get married? Like, again, it feels more lonely being with somebody that supposedly loves you.

Unknown [00:38:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:51]: Than being alone.

Unknown [00:38:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:53]: Like, and everything's just gone. He doesn't even pay attention to her anymore. And like, women get so frustrated because again, they. They're just like, well, men should know this. This is common sense. This is not like, women knowledge.

Unknown [00:39:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:39:08]: And again, some of it is the singular focus. I do believe that. But also at the same time, I feel like some of this is basic human knowledge.

Unknown [00:39:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:16]: That either men are not Focusing on. Or again, they didn't, like, learn how to be in a relationship properly.

Unknown [00:39:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:25]: And so, you know, the thing is, you have to. You have to really commit to this, because if she's that far gone, she's asking you for a divorce. Like you said, she's already. Well, made that decision, and it will take extreme measures to get her back. Extreme change.

Unknown [00:39:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:46]: And it's not asking her, it's not begging her. It's not saying you're gonna do all these things. It's not any of that.

Unknown [00:39:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:53]: It has to be your changed man.

John [00:39:56]: And you got to think about it this way, too, as a man. It's like, in order for you to even have that relationship back, you need to be the leader and the authority in their relationship. You need to be the man in the relationship. So if you grovel and beg her back, how are you now the man? Like, how that's changing the nature of the relationship where she's gonna be the one holding all the cards. So even though she's leaving you, you still have to have her come back on your terms, meaning that she comes back to you because she sees that you're a man that she wants to be with and she doesn't want to lose you.

Nicole [00:40:32]: Right.

John [00:40:32]: Which, you know, it's like, you can't beg and grovel at her feet. Not because even. Not even because it won't work. Which it won't. But because if it did work, you'll be setting yourself up for failure. Because now she would be holding all the cards in a relationship, and she would be the dominant one in the relationship.

Nicole [00:40:48]: She can be even more masculine.

John [00:40:50]: Exactly. You got to step up and be the leader. The only way that she's going to allow you to be the leader is if she actually comes back to you rather than you chasing her down.

Unknown [00:40:59]: Right.

John [00:41:00]: Which is a tall order.

Nicole [00:41:01]: Yeah.

John [00:41:03]: Again, the other thing I think to say about this is that it's not to say that the woman in this situation has not done a whole bunch of wrong things.

Nicole [00:41:12]: Right.

John [00:41:12]: Maybe she hasn't even been a very good wife at all, or whatever it was. Or like, that can be the case, but it still doesn't change how she feels. And the fact that you're the man, you're supposed to be the leader. So if she was doing things wrong, then you should have been giving her correction. But you have to be doing the right thing in order to give someone else correction. So if you were stepping up and doing what you're supposed to be doing, and then you were helping her with the issues that she was facing internally and improving herself as a person, then you wouldn't have gotten into this mess either. So you can't, like, you know, you can't be like, oh, well, she's the one who screwed up this relationship and did all these things. There may be truth to it, but you were the leader who was the one who was responsible for the relationship, and you abdicated that.

Nicole [00:41:58]: I would say that then you should known that the divorce was probably coming then, if you notice that.

Unknown [00:42:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:42:05]: But you're not noticing anything else. It's. It's not great. Like, I would ask a man why he got married. If he just gets in it and he checks out and does whatever he wants to do. And if you're a man that you feel like you can't pick up on the hints.

Unknown [00:42:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:23]: Then I feel like it's your responsibility as a man to check in with your wife.

Unknown [00:42:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:42:28]: And ask her how she's doing and try to talk to her and see where your relationship is. I don't think you have to do that. I think that you can tell the vibe.

Unknown [00:42:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:42:40]: But if you can't, then you should act.

Unknown [00:42:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:42]: And things seem a little weird or it's been a while. Ask her. Be like, hey, how are you doing? Like, you know what. What is on your plate? Is there anything that I can help you with? And, like, I mean, try to figure it out without her telling you.

Unknown [00:42:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:58]: But I can guarantee that if you're in, like, the beginning stages where the resentment is starting to build up and you feel like you're disconnecting from each other, that if you check in.

Unknown [00:43:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:09]: And you communicate more, it'll also help you realize, like, where you need to step up. And then maybe you do have to ask her, like, how can I help you? Or like, what can I do?

Unknown [00:43:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:23]: And she tells you, you know, it would be nice if you took the trash out. Okay. You do that. And then you continue to do that because you know that if it helped her one time, it would help her all the other times.

Unknown [00:43:33]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:43:33]: You know, so if you're not catching on.

Unknown [00:43:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:37]: On your own, because this is new to you. Again, if you're, like, completely oblivious, this is going to be hard for you. I'm not gonna lie. There's things that you can do, you can pay more attention. But if you're not picking up on any cues, have the conversation.

Unknown [00:43:50]: Yeah, yeah.

John [00:43:51]: And find out. Exactly.

Nicole [00:43:52]: Right. And then do that. And then once you know a few things, you can Be like, oh, okay, well, she wants me to take the trash out. So what if I also do this for her as well, too? What if I also, like, you know, put the trash can out at the.

Unknown [00:44:07]: Right. The.

Nicole [00:44:08]: For the dump truck to come and pick it up. Or, you know, like, things that kind of tie together, things that you can just keep on accumulating until you feel like she's kind of warmed back up to you.

Unknown [00:44:23]: Yeah. Yeah.

John [00:44:24]: And do it because you're a responsible adult, not because you're a good little boy.

Nicole [00:44:29]: Right. No. Yeah. Because you're contributing to your family, you're contributing to your marriage, not because, like, your wife wants you to do it, because it's also your trash.

Unknown [00:44:37]: Right.

John [00:44:38]: Because then if your wife wants to do it and you're doing it, who's in charge? Who's the leader?

Nicole [00:44:42]: Right.

Unknown [00:44:43]: Right.

John [00:44:43]: It's like you take the leadership by saying, okay, I hear what you're saying. Like, I. And I. And I hear that I haven't been. Been doing as much as I should. I'll take care of that.

Nicole [00:44:54]: Right.

John [00:44:54]: And then you take care of that.

Nicole [00:44:55]: Yeah.

John [00:44:55]: That's it. Then you're the leader. But if you're doing it just because. Oh, she wants me to. I'm getting in trouble if I don't take out the trash.

Nicole [00:45:01]: Right.

John [00:45:01]: Please. Like, then you're just being a little kid.

Nicole [00:45:05]: Like, I feel like. Yeah. I feel like that's just.

Unknown [00:45:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:07]: Lacking accountability.

Unknown [00:45:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:09]: Because again, it's like, this is also your house. It's also your trash. You're not doing her a favor by taking out the trash that you also contribute to. You know what I mean? Like, that's still. That's. It's part of your home.

Unknown [00:45:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:22]: Too. So. But if you view it as like, she wants me to take out the trash or she wants me to do that, then.

Unknown [00:45:27]: Right.

Nicole [00:45:28]: You're not really. You're missing the entire point. Really.

John [00:45:31]: Exactly. But when you asked also about how, like, how can men. Why would men get married? Like, if they're. Because the answer is because if a man has got his work and he's got sex and he's got food, he can live just fine. He doesn't need love. He wants love. He doesn't need love. Women cannot live without love. That's why women read romance novels and watch romance movies, because they need that in their life. But a man can be just fine just going to work, getting sex and food.

Unknown [00:46:03]: That's it.

Nicole [00:46:04]: Like a miserable life.

John [00:46:06]: But a man can live like that.

Nicole [00:46:08]: It feels like it. Well, I guess if your job is your purpose.

John [00:46:11]: But can a woman live like that without romance in her life, without. She can't live like that. So that's. Why is that for a man, he can be in that situation and feel like everything's fine? Because, yeah, the love would be nice. Okay, it faded, whatever, Not a big deal. Like, I've got these other things. I've got my hobbies, my interests, I've got my friends, I've got food, I get sex. Like, I'm good. You see what I'm saying? So that's, that's why it gets to that point is because he doesn't see that there's a problem. And then, and then when she tries to tell him there's a problem, he's like, oh, she's just nagging me. She's just complaining. Why does she just make trouble?

Unknown [00:46:49]: Right?

John [00:46:49]: Because to him everything's fine. Like, why are you disrupting the fineness? It's all good. Like, why are you going to come and make waves when it's all good? Like, you got money, you got food, you're good. But you see, that's, that's the psychology of it. But not saying it's right. But that's how it is.

Nicole [00:47:06]: So are simple yet confusing creatures.

John [00:47:10]: But what else was I gonna say? Okay, so maybe even like the hints that, I mean, we talked a little bit about. About it. But like the hints that this is happening.

Nicole [00:47:20]: Yeah, I mean, you said like, if she's not even arguing with you, doesn't even want to like engage in a serious conversation about something, then she's definitely at kind of the severe level. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, what would you say are like the hints, I mean, I would think passive aggressive comments.

John [00:47:45]: Yes.

Nicole [00:47:45]: Are probably a good hint that she's got some resentment and trying to hint at you to do the things without telling you directly to do it because she still wants to give you the chance to do it on your own even though she's hinting at it.

Unknown [00:48:04]: Yep.

Nicole [00:48:04]: I think you're in dangerous territory if you're getting a lot of passive aggressive comments or the nagging.

John [00:48:10]: The nagging. Like, the nagging is usually a you problem as a man, not a, like the woman's nagging comes from a resentment that's built up.

Nicole [00:48:20]: Yeah.

Unknown [00:48:20]: Right.

John [00:48:20]: So now she has to nag. Feels like she has to nag you about it. Because, I mean, yeah, women shouldn't nag.

Unknown [00:48:25]: Right.

John [00:48:26]: But why does a woman usually nag? When she does, it's because she feels like she doesn't trust you to be responsible.

Nicole [00:48:32]: Right.

John [00:48:32]: Like it's really hard to nag someone that's on top of their shit.

Nicole [00:48:35]: Right.

John [00:48:36]: Like what are you going to nag them about?

Nicole [00:48:37]: Right.

John [00:48:38]: Like, you know, like that she's asked.

Nicole [00:48:40]: You multiple times and you're still not doing it. That's usually why a woman nags.

Unknown [00:48:44]: Right, Right.

John [00:48:45]: But if you're proactive, you're on top of all your shit. How is she going to nag you? Like, what is she going to nag you about? Like, that's true where it's usually come from. So that's a big, a big hint that things are coming down the pipe. But then also like the little things. Like yeah, now she started going to the gym. Now she's like trying to do get a raise at her job. Like, you know what I mean? Things like that that you can see as well. So she's preparing the exit.

Nicole [00:49:16]: You know, if you feel like you guys aren't connected, then yeah, those are red flags.

Unknown [00:49:20]: Yeah. But yeah.

Nicole [00:49:23]: Yeah, I think I can't think of any.

John [00:49:26]: She's always talking to Susie at work at 11pm at night.

Nicole [00:49:31]: What? That's more a fair one.

John [00:49:35]: Probably. That's the affair one.

Nicole [00:49:39]: But I mean, I feel like you can tell. I feel like you can tell the energy. Like if your wife's not happy to see you not like being affectionate towards you, like, I'm not saying that if she doesn't do it like once or twice, then she's going to divorce you. But if her typical normal state around you is not very loving and affectionate, you're probably in trouble.

Unknown [00:50:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:05]: You're probably neglecting your, you know, duties in your marriage and in your family unit.

Unknown [00:50:14]: Yeah.

John [00:50:15]: And I think one of the other things I was gonna talk about too is like that, like having the conversation of like whether you restore it or not or like even before you restore it or if you do restore it of now going through the deep wounds and having a conversation where you talk to her and say, okay, I just want to listen. I want to hear how I've hurt you so that you can get all that out. And I can understand how you felt because she's got all this pent up emotional energy and resentment that you need to get that out. And she needs to see that she can express that without you being butt hurt and offended by it and being fazed by it and just listening and hearing it so that then she can start to feel that it's safe to actually express those things in the future when Things come up to express them so they don't get pushed down and bottled up.

Unknown [00:51:12]: Yeah, right.

John [00:51:13]: And turn into resentment. So.

Nicole [00:51:16]: No, definitely.

Unknown [00:51:16]: Yeah.

John [00:51:18]: I think that pretty much covers it. Unless you can think of what else.

Nicole [00:51:25]: I mean, I guess the only thing that I would say to women actually is that you should read the Empowered Wife and the Surrendered Wife and try, even if he hasn't stepped up yet.

Unknown [00:51:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:39]: Try to give him the reins.

Unknown [00:51:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:43]: And hopefully that could also wake him up. Like there is something that you can still do as a woman. And it's not nagging, it's not, you know, passive aggressive comments. Allow him to flounder. If he's gonna flounder, like give him a responsibility. Give him something. And if he forgets to do it or he doesn't do it, he has to suffer those consequences.

Unknown [00:52:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:52:05]: And a lot of times that helps men step up and helps them become more aware. But if it's not working or if, you know, I don't know, for some reason that doesn't work, I feel like it should work. Then you need to have a conversation with him. I know you've probably had multiple, but at least communicate what's going on. And you know, it is up to him whether he listens to that or not. Because like you said, a lot of women, they've tried to have this conversation multiple times. Yeah, but I also don't want women to think that men can read their mind or things like that. If you want something, ask for help.

Unknown [00:52:47]: Right, Ask for help. Exactly.

Nicole [00:52:49]: You know, like, yeah, ask, ask for help. And again, I feel like some women won't get the help that they want and that's kind of why they're in this situation. I do feel like these are the extreme versions and that they probably have asked for help and they probably have had these conversations, but just try all that you can do to actually save the marriage.

Unknown [00:53:12]: Yep.

Nicole [00:53:14]: And then, you know, it is up to him. And again, like you said, he's either when you get to a point where you ask him for a divorce, he's either going to step up or he's not.

Unknown [00:53:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:23]: And I know that women also don't want to get divorced, but like you said, they don't also want a man child to have to add on to her responsibilities when she's doing all the things either.

Unknown [00:53:36]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:53:37]: So.

John [00:53:38]: And. Oh, and that's a good reminder too, for Books for Men, Masculine in relationship by G.S. youngblood and way the Superior man by David Data. Read those books. You know, if you're at The. I mean, you need to read both of them. But masculine relationship might be a higher priority if you're at the divorce age. Yeah, but both of them will be useful to you.

Unknown [00:54:00]: But.

Nicole [00:54:01]: And then the surrendered wife or the empowered wife from Laura Doyle and the Queen's Code by Alison Armstrong.

Unknown [00:54:08]: Exactly.

John [00:54:09]: But it can be.

Nicole [00:54:11]: It can be fixed, but it can.

John [00:54:12]: Be turned around for sure.

Nicole [00:54:13]: You're gotten. If you're gone. If you've gotten to the point that she's pretty set on divorce, like you said, this. This did not happen recently. It's been in her mind. So, yeah, it's going to take a lot, but you can do it if you're really committed to it.

Unknown [00:54:30]: Yeah.

John [00:54:30]: But just. Yeah, don't chase her down and don't. And even, I mean, maybe even, like, she goes forward with it because it takes a long time. It's not a quick process. And so you've got time on your side as a man. You don't have to be like, oh, I gotta fix this right now. I gotta convince her. No, you have probably six months, a year to show consistent behavior and show that you're stepping up and become a new person, a new man. And you can win her over that time because you're kind of starting over from scratch. Like you're trying to whir over, except that you've got a bad mark on it. But that's the thing is. Because it doesn't work. I've never heard of a guy, and I've talked to a lot of guys. I've never heard of a guy where he's been in this situation and he's talked her and convinced her to stay or, like, like, done all these things and. And like, showed her, like, very suddenly how much he could, like, express his love for her.

Nicole [00:55:37]: Right.

John [00:55:37]: And that's worked.

Nicole [00:55:38]: It's not going to be an instant thing. It takes time.

Unknown [00:55:41]: Yeah.

John [00:55:41]: Because it's not. She does. It's not that. Like, she needs you to express your love for her and tell her how much she means to you. And you're like, that doesn't mean anything at this point because it hasn't been shown for such a long time.

Unknown [00:55:53]: Well.

Nicole [00:55:53]: And guys. Yeah, guys have to realize that it took a long time for it to get this bad.

Unknown [00:55:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:55:58]: So it's going to take a decent amount of time for it to get good again. She's not just going to instantly be like, okay, I believe you, and then go back after she's mourned and felt alone for a very long time.

Unknown [00:56:11]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:56:13]: But the good news for men is that a woman wants you to step up and be the man that she's always wanted you to be. Or that you used to be.

John [00:56:20]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:56:21]: Like to save the day. Like, that's what a woman wants. If she feels like you're not capable of it.

Unknown [00:56:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:28]: Genuinely, then it's. Yeah, it's not going to work. But if you used to be the man and you used to make her feel a certain way and you show up as that man again permanently. Yeah, you're going to be the hero. And isn't that what every man wants to be?

Unknown [00:56:41]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:42]: So harness that energy. Be the hero. Be her hero. Save her from you. Save her from the old version of you.

Unknown [00:56:50]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:56:52]: But it's true.

Unknown [00:56:52]: True. It's true. Yeah.

John [00:56:54]: But, yeah, okay, I think. Yeah, I think we. We pretty much covered it, but yeah, hopefully that's. That's helpful if, if there's someone that needs this message, you know, share it with them. Help save them. Because I always hate to, you know, I hear the situation so many times and I'm like, you need to, like, you need to get some help here because also, just to give a shout out to. Why did I just forget his name?

Nicole [00:57:26]: Just to give a shout out.

John [00:57:29]: Man. I just forgot.

Nicole [00:57:32]: Who.

John [00:57:33]: Let me just pull it up real quick. Why did I forget his name? Who is. My brain is working the mystery shout out. I can't believe I forgot. Josh. Josh.

Nicole [00:57:46]: Oh, that's who I thought. But I didn't want to say the wrong.

John [00:57:49]: No, Josh Hudson, he has a program called Marriage Mastery, I think is what it is. He has a YouTube channel and everything, but he. I mean, he does. He's in my mastermind group and he's a friend of ours and he helps men. He basically gives us very similar advice. I would say to us, we're pretty much on.

Unknown [00:58:11]: On.

John [00:58:11]: On par with. With what? The message of how to win your wife back. But that's what he specializes. He has a program on. Yeah. So if you feel like you need the extra help to do that, then. Yeah, then go check out Josh Hudson and Marriage Mastery, I think is what it. What it's called. Or you just looked it up, huh? Well, I was trying to see what his program's called, but just to make sure. I want to make sure I give the right. Oh, yeah, it's Marriage Mastery. Look, I got it right. So it's like Josh.

Unknown [00:58:52]: Yeah.

John [00:58:53]: Josh Hudson or Josh.

Unknown [00:58:55]: Yeah.

John [00:58:56]: Is that what I said? Josh Hudson.

Unknown [00:58:57]: Yeah.

John [00:58:58]: Okay. Marriage Mastery.

Unknown [00:59:00]: Good.

Nicole [00:59:01]: All right.

Unknown [00:59:01]: All Right.

Nicole [00:59:02]: Or if there's anything that we didn't cover.

Unknown [00:59:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:05]: In this episode that you want us to talk about on another episode or in the beginning of another episode. Leave us comments and we'll go over it and check out our podcast website, betterthanperfectpod.com and share. Share the word of better than perfect with all your friends and family.

John [00:59:30]: All right, we'll see you guys next time.