John [00:00:01]: Hello, there. Welcome back to the better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:13]: You took me out. What the. Hello, there.

John [00:00:17]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our.

Nicole [00:00:20]: Flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find. That was pretty good. If you guys can't tell. John is preparing for a role he has that he needs to have a British accent.

John [00:00:41]: Yeah. But probably not that British accent.

Nicole [00:00:44]: It's a little bit.

John [00:00:44]: He be a little more gruff, like, you know, I. You did good.

Nicole [00:00:49]: It's better than the Irish. You're slipping into the Irish.

John [00:00:52]: You do a good Irish. But, you know. Yeah, but.

Nicole [00:00:56]: Yeah, well.

John [00:00:57]: But yes, I'm going to do the whole podcast in a British accent.

Nicole [00:01:05]: New.

John [00:01:07]: Indubitably. I shall. You shall see.

Nicole [00:01:12]: Well, on a different note, it's been a whole year.

John [00:01:17]: Yes, it has.

Nicole [00:01:18]: Of the podcast, which is kind of crazy to believe. We need to have, like, an insert audio of, like, people like, yay. You know, like an audience like, yay.

John [00:01:29]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:31]: Like, celebrating. But. Yeah, it's hard to believe it's been a year.

John [00:01:35]: Yeah. Yeah. We were a little confused last episode, but last episode was 52, so.

Nicole [00:01:40]: Yeah.

John [00:01:40]: But we can celebrate now because it's been one year and so now it's.

Nicole [00:01:45]: This is like, we completed the year.

John [00:01:47]: Yes.

Nicole [00:01:48]: Right. Like, that episode had to be completed. So here we are, first episode of a new year. Yeah.

John [00:01:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:57]: And it's your topic.

John [00:01:59]: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I don't know if we have anything like that's been going on as far as.

Nicole [00:02:06]: We haven't caught up on Love is Blind yet. No, we gotta watch the next time we'll be here. We'll have a little bit of that for the reunion. But, yeah, it's probably just the normal.

John [00:02:16]: Yeah. Not too much other drama going on besides political drama. And.

Nicole [00:02:21]: Let's not get into that. Let's not get into that. We.

John [00:02:26]: It'll turn into the. Yeah, that'd be the whole. But. But yeah, I was trying to think what else was.

Nicole [00:02:32]: Well, you were talking about Channing Tatum and his girlfriend breaking up, and they said they were just on different paths and.

John [00:02:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:40]: You know, I'm the type of person, like, is there ever, like, you know, different paths? Like, I mean, there is, but I guess more so I'm thinking about when people are like, the timing just wasn't right or things like that. And I think if it's something you're supposed to stay in, that doesn't really matter. But if you're not as, like, fully into it, that's not like, your person you could see yourself being with forever, then. Yeah, you're gonna be like, it. The timing was off.

John [00:03:11]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you got the political, politically correct answer that you give for why you broke up, and then you got the real answer. Right, right.

Nicole [00:03:22]: That people rarely ever, like, say out.

John [00:03:24]: Loud, but someone else will tell them. They tell their. Their drama, their story, so. But that's true. We didn't see it, but, yeah. So, I mean. Well, I mean, we might as well just get. Get into it. I just keep on wanting to. I just go into the. I know at first I was like, I don't want to do a British accent for, like, just let me just do normal lines. But now I'm like, I. I do want to do, but I'm not going to do it.

Nicole [00:03:51]: It doesn't help that you said the intro, like, three times, and now you're, like, in the zone, and now you just want to do it.

John [00:03:57]: But one thing I did notice about, you know, that I think it's interesting about doing an accent is that it. You have to bring the character with you. Like, it's not just the accent.

Nicole [00:04:05]: Right.

John [00:04:06]: You can't just do an accent. Like, you actually have to. It then brings you into a character. So maybe it is good to have an accent.

Nicole [00:04:13]: Speaking of that, actually, there's another little thing before we get started. We saw Jeff Dunham.

John [00:04:18]: Oh, yeah?

Nicole [00:04:19]: Yeah, yeah. He has different voices. Right. For each character. And so, like, trying to really portray the character does help when you're doing the accents, because he has so many.

John [00:04:30]: Different ones, and those characters are. I mean, they're in his head talking to him. Like, there was a point where he sort of lost. Lost it, you know, where it was just like the character wanted to say this, and he just. He couldn't stop it in that, you.

Nicole [00:04:48]: Know, he does a really good job because if you think about what's actually happening, it's just him talking, like you said. Like, it's just him because he's a ventriloquist comedian. But the timing of when he talks versus when the puppet talks, he has it so flawless that it seems like you're watching people talking or two things talking.

John [00:05:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:15]: You know, so it's pretty crazy that he even has the ability to do that minute little detail that people probably don't even realize. But it. Like, if they tried to talk and make it believable, like they were two people, right?

John [00:05:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:31]: They would have the hardest Time even doing that part of it, let alone the, like, mannerisms of the puppet to match what he's saying and the accents and personalities.

John [00:05:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:42]: So it was. It was a really good show, I really do think.

John [00:05:44]: I mean, based on that, it has to be, like, split personalities that he's developed in his head that have almost like a life of their own where he. Yeah, it just seems like that that has to be the case.

Nicole [00:05:56]: Maybe. So. So that was really good.

John [00:05:59]: Yeah, it was. All right, so our episode today, then, the topic will be.

Nicole [00:06:06]: You're just in a dramatic mood now.

John [00:06:09]: Have we learned in the last year of doing this podcast, what is it? What is your lesson? But, yeah, that's what it'll be.

Nicole [00:06:21]: There's so many things, though, I think you gotta, like.

John [00:06:23]: Yeah, we're just gonna kind of riff on, like, what are the things that we've learned from doing the podcast? Just what we've learned in the last year.

Nicole [00:06:31]: And I've learned that Book Talk wants to bring us down.

John [00:06:37]: We've made. What enemies have we made?

Nicole [00:06:39]: We've only had a few episodes. Passport Bros and Book Talk people.

John [00:06:43]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're.

Nicole [00:06:45]: I would say. Yeah, but we care about you guys, too. It's just, you know, we're trying to help.

John [00:06:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:52]: But on a serious note, it's like, there's so many things, like, where do you.

John [00:06:57]: Where do you begin? Yeah. I mean, you can just go out a bunch of different things.

Nicole [00:07:01]: Well, then you start, because it's your topic.

John [00:07:03]: There's so many things. I mean. Okay, what would I say? It's one of the big things, I think. I mean, one of the big things I would say is defensiveness. Right. That. That's just not good in a relationship. I think I've learned a lot about. I recognized it more in myself and in the relationship and have learned a lot. How to not come across that way. Right. How to. Instead. Instead of going to a defensive position to try and go for more of an empathetic position, or just taking in understanding it's not necessarily agreeing, but it's not directly opposing. Right. So it's like, I think that's a better position, but I've definitely learned a lot about that. About how it just leads you down the wrong path when you do it. It's like things spiral from that as soon as anyone's defensive, whether it's me or you.

Nicole [00:08:13]: I know. I was gonna say, I think that was a big one, too. Because if I look back on, like, you know, when we had a moment and like, you weren't feeling heard by me. It was like me trying to defend myself. Like, I feel like you would get defensive in a different way than I would get defensive, but it was still defensive.

John [00:08:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:39]: And like you said, realizing that you don't have to fight your partner, like the person who's trying to talk to you, or you don't have to, like, defend yourself to try to prove your innocence, because that's really what it is in these moments. Right. Like, you're not defending yourself to, like, fight. You're defending yourself to be like, no, see, I. I wasn't doing what you thought I was doing. Or like, no, I'm not wrong. This is why I'm doing it. But it's like, in that moment, that isn't going to help the situation.

John [00:09:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:15]: And there's really, like, unless it's a situation where explaining where you're coming from genuinely benefits the situation, then it's usually not even really necessary. Like you said, it's more necessary to come from an empathetic place.

John [00:09:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:32]: And make the other person feel heard and validated and listen to what they're saying and not go straight to defend yourself or not even defend yourself at all in some situations. And it really does change the whole nature of the conversation and the relationship.

John [00:09:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:53]: Because you're no longer like, I have to. I have to protect myself. I have to defend myself. Which that's essentially what it is like, even though, well, I guess defensive, you do maybe think of protect. But I don't think people, when they are defensive, think they're protecting themselves. I think they're trying to, like, explain their innocence.

John [00:10:14]: Exactly. And even almost like, not hurt the other person because it's like, oh, I, I didn't. I'm not trying to do this to you. I'm not trying to hurt you. Which seems like the right thing to do, but it's. It actually turns out to be not. Because if you think about it, anytime, whenever someone acts in any kind of defense, it never convinces you. Right. You're never like, oh, you defended yourself very well. Right. Like, like, I have changed my mind. I should not have come at you. You know, it's like, you, you, you may change your mind, but it's usually not going to come from a defense.

Nicole [00:10:47]: Right.

John [00:10:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:48]: You know, and even if you feel like you have to explain because of whatever situation you're in, you should always wait till the end. Like, after that person has talked about what they need to talk about and you've validated that and you've had that discussion, then if there's a part that you need to bring up, then it should be at the end. But yeah, yeah, it's. It does change the dynamic for the better. And it's hard to do, you know, it's hard to not want to defend yourself. But like you said, defending yourself has never fixed the problem. No one's ever been like, oh, okay, I'm healed. Because the thing is, no matter if you meant to do it or not, no matter if it was intentional or not intentional, you hurt somebody somehow. And even if it doesn't make sense to you, that is how they're feeling. And typically, too, when we take it personally, we get more defensive too, right? And sometimes it's not even personal. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not. And so the second we take it personally and then we're trying to defend ourselves rather than care about the person that's talking is when we get in a lot of trouble. And by we, I mean me, but yeah, well.

John [00:11:59]: And it's not. It's just. It's not necessary even to give a good example. Like if someone accuses you of eating their M&M's and you didn't even do it. You didn't even do it. You were set up, you took the fall for. For two women who ate some child's M and M. We didn't eat that or whatever. No one even remembers what happened now. But it wasn't me. We know that it wasn't me. Yet I'm acc. Accused of it repeatedly, yet I do not defend myself. I just take it because there's no point. Also, right? It's like, okay, then it then is okay. If I argued it, even even though I'm innocent, then there would be argument about it. But if I just don't defend against it, then it moves. We move on to the next topic, right? It's like, oh, remember when you ate my M M's dad? And I'm like, no, I don't have anything to say about it, right? Because I'm not a snitch. Not a snitch, right? Then the topic changes. It moves past it. But if I do even try to, I mean, it's an extreme example, but it is actually true. It is actually true, right? It just moves past it. Like when, when you stop defending yourself, people can't just keep on throwing darts at you, right? You know, they have to stop because it's like, you know, you get tired of throwing darts at someone who's just laying there on the Floor twitching, you know, but it is true. But I have, I have learned that. And it is easy to slip into it. It's easy to not recognize when you're being. Especially when you feel justified, especially when you feel wrongly accused. But it's, it's just strategically, it's not the right answer and it's not the good thing for the relationship because even if someone is attacking you, even if they're accusing you of things you didn't do, it's a better position to take to just either be like, ow, that hurt, or to just let them say their thing. And then, and then, and then, then you can talk about what's, what's going on without defending it. Because most people are not going to be done until they've had their time to say their piece. And people want to say their piece. And that's.

Nicole [00:14:12]: Yeah, I do think there is something to say, though, about doing it respectfully. But like you said, you can wait till then and be like, hey, that's not, you know, I hear what you're saying and you can empathize with them. But, like, words do matter.

John [00:14:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:26]: Yeah, they do. Like, they shouldn't be everything, but they are important because you can always take an extra minute or two to think about the words that you're saying instead of being like, oh, you shouldn't care about the words I'm saying. Like, no, like, you are the only one who can control the words that you're saying. So, you know, I think people should pay attention to those things.

John [00:14:49]: It's a good double standard, though. It's one of those things where you as a person should be careful about the words that you say. Right. But you should be lenient with other people about the words that they say. You know what I mean? Like, it's like it's a double standard, but it's a good one. Even, Even then what I'm, what I'm saying is that you should, you should be really careful about making sure that. Of thinking the words that I say are important.

Nicole [00:15:20]: Yeah, I agree with that.

John [00:15:21]: But you shouldn't hold people so much accountable to the words that they say. You see, like, you should have that standard for yourself. But just, just like, I, like I say that.

Nicole [00:15:30]: Yeah. But I'm asking you, like, if they're someone disrespectful. Yes.

John [00:15:34]: Yeah, that's, that's something that you have to deal with. Right. It's not, it's not acceptable. It's not okay to be disrespectful. But at the same Time you could still listen.

Nicole [00:15:46]: Yeah.

John [00:15:46]: And take what someone. Even if someone says something in disrespectful way, like you as a. As a person who has emotional intelligence can say, okay, I'm gonna still take in what they're saying. I mean, the way that they said it can be addressed, but I'm not gonna just ignore what they're saying just because it was said in a disrespectful way.

Nicole [00:16:04]: Right. I didn't say that. I said at the end that you could tell them that that's not appropriate.

John [00:16:09]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:09]: Because I do. I don't want it to be. And again, like, this is just making sure people don't take everything so literally, because sometimes they do.

John [00:16:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:17]: That I don't want people to think that they should tolerate disrespect or that they should allow that to continue to happen.

John [00:16:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:26]: Because I agree with you. Like, at the end of the day, all you can do is what you can do, what you control is yourself. And that's the only person. That's the only thing you can control.

John [00:16:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:38]: But at the same time, like, you shouldn't have to tolerate people talking to you in a certain way. And I'm not. And again, like you said, I'm not saying don't listen to the person.

John [00:16:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:49]: But. And you can listen to the person and try to figure out what they're actually saying, but then afterwards be like, hey, this is not the way. You know, I know you're upset, but this is not the way to bring up the things that are hurting you. Because a lot of people find themselves. Like, one of the really popular clips actually of ours this year was me talking about how women lost respect for their husband and how they say all these mean things and then try to say they don't mean them at the end and.

John [00:17:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:19]: And I don't think that's okay. You know, And I'm not saying that men aren't even like, hey, you can't talk to me like that. And I think that. That's why. I think that you do have to have some sort of conversation and when it initially happens, because the longer it goes on, the more someone is more likely to do it.

John [00:17:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:40]: But I just don't want people to feel like they have to just allow the person they love to talk to them in a way that can, because, like, we don't talk to each other that way. But I know what women and men are capable of saying when they're upset and how that hurts when the person you care about, the Most. Or your husband, your wife, or whoever is talking to you in that way.

John [00:18:04]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You got to have the boundary 100%. Yeah. It. I'm saying the double standards are. Well, here's a good example of another good double standard, right? In the sense of is. It's. It's. It's. It's what you apply to yourself, right. Is. Is if you say, don't criticize people because 99 people can't take criticism but be a person who can accept criticism. Right. So it's a double standard in a way, but it's a good double standard because that's how you should act. Right. So it's the same thing with that. But. But it doesn't mean that you should just tolerate disrespect. It just means that you should be a little bit more. If someone doesn't word things perfectly, that's okay. Not okay if they say it in a disrespectful way.

Nicole [00:18:49]: Right.

John [00:18:50]: But you should not give yourself the same leniency that you give other people. Right. You should be like, okay, well, yeah, I'm going to give them leniency in not wording things perfectly, but I'm going to try and word things perfectly because. Because it's just a better way to operate. The same thing with criticism. If you say, hey, I not going to criticize people, but if someone criticizes me, I'm going to learn how to take it in the right way.

Nicole [00:19:11]: Right. I get it, but I sometimes, you know, your brain's already figured all this out. I know what you're talking about, but sometimes we do have to break it down more because it's not one as easy as it seems. There's, like, different layers to it. And, like, how do you do it and when do you do it? And, like, just for people to comprehend, like, what we're really talking about. Because, you know, if it's just me and you, like, I get where you're coming from and I understand what you're saying, but just want to elaborate and especially because, like I said, we did some episodes with some topics about people saying really mean and hurtful things and, you know, people losing respect for each other. And I think I wanted to tie in to, you know, defensiveness, like we were talking about that. I think love and respect, like the book that we read, like, when you aren't defensive with your partner and you come from a place of empathy, you are giving your partner love and respect.

John [00:20:10]: Right? Right.

Nicole [00:20:11]: Like you're giving them both simultaneously. Like, it's respectful to allow somebody to vent their frustrations without instantly trying to invalidate it with defensiveness, Even if that's not your, like, intention, that's how it appears to people who are hurt and trying to have a conversation about it. And it really does change the dynamic of your conversation. Like, and I get that it's hard, especially if you're just used to defending yourself.

John [00:20:40]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:20:41]: Like, for your whole life, you know, to like it, it's kind of becomes automatic, you know, because it's almost like a childish sort of response, you know, because when kids get in trouble, what do they do? They never say, like, I did it. Yeah. They're like, not me. I didn't do that. Or they'll be like, this is why I did it. You know what I mean? Like, it's. It is a, like, childish response that, like, a lot of people get stuck in, and a lot of it is from childhood stuff, you know? And so it's not going to be easy to just instantly not be defensive. But I think if you work really hard at it and you get to a better place, like you and I have, it's. You realize how much better it is.

John [00:21:21]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:21]: For both people.

John [00:21:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:23]: And you realize, especially if you're with your partner, like, the person you love, like, there is no, like, tit for tat. There is no, like, I won this conversation and he won this. Or like you said, like, it doesn't have to be like, I'm agreeing with what this person is saying a hundred percent, but I care about their feelings.

John [00:21:43]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:21:44]: And so when you kind of let go of, like, I need to be right or, like, I need to defend myself or my innocence in this situation.

John [00:21:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:53]: You're almost, like, trying to beat your partner.

John [00:21:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:57]: You know, like, you're trying to win.

John [00:21:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:59]: And that's not what a partnership is. Like, you're a team.

John [00:22:02]: Yeah. Because there's no win if you win.

Nicole [00:22:03]: Right. The only way is if you both feel better and you're happy again.

John [00:22:07]: Yeah. And. And it. And it can also. I guess it's not to belabor it, but sometimes that could be interpreted as you're just rolling over. Right. So someone says, for example, why did you do this? You really piss me off. And then if you don't respond defensively, then what do you do? Then you say, oh, I'm sorry. No, that's not it either. But you could also say, oh, I see, this has really upset you. That's not defensive. It's not admitting guilt. Right. It's not condoning the accusation but, but now you're, you're showing empathy without, without having to go either of the, the bad director. Because if you just roll over too and just say, oh, I'm sorry, like, then you, you start to become self deprecating and you're, you're just a pushover and you're just a people pleaser. You don't want to do that either. So it's a, it's a just. Yeah, it's, it's a. The art of.

Nicole [00:23:01]: It is an art, but once you get it down and you see how better the dynamic is, it does make it easier. But it's going to be hard to initially get out of that, like wanting to defend instantly because that's again, that's like, it's a childish response. Like, it's what we grew up with. Like, and a lot of people don't grow out of it for one reason or another. It's a trauma response or something. So.

John [00:23:30]: Yeah, what helps me too is just, you know, I always think now is that she makes mistakes, but her heart is good. You know what I mean? I make mistakes too. So that helps. Because if you, I think if you have your focus on that, then you're less likely to respond defensively, right? Because even if you're feeling like you're being accused or attacked or whatever it is, you're like, okay, well, the person who I'm in a relationship with has a good heart, so they could be making a mistake right now. Maybe I'm the one who's making, you know, but, but then it's, you know, when you have that insight into it then, then you have more empathy in that, in that case. So, but yeah, okay, well you, you got to have one now. I said defensiveness.

Nicole [00:24:18]: Well, that was like, I piggybacked off of that. But let me think of another. Why?

John [00:24:23]: What did you learn?

Nicole [00:24:25]: I really, again, going back, like, there are a lot of good things about the empowered wife book. Some of the things still are a little, you know, gray area, ish, questionable sort of things, but a majority of it and the concepts, like the true concepts are really good. And I think that women should read it. And even if you don't agree with everything that she says, it does help create a better balance in your relationship. And it allows the man in the relationship to feel better about himself and it allows you to feel better about yourself, like as a woman. And it honors those distinctions in a way that I don't feel like is separating. Like today I feel like women and men are trying to Separate themselves from each other. Like, they're like, in. In the bad way they talk about equality, but then all the way they talk about each other is very separating. And like, in her book, it's. It's a lot of, like, what we've talked about, where it's like, men's role is typically this and women's role is typically this. And when those two things come together, it creates this one better thing. Rather than like, two people trying to do the same things and again, kind of like competing with each other and they're not really making, like, one greater entity. They're making just like, two people doing the same things. And I think honoring that instead of, like, trying to put each other in boxes that they don't belong in, like, trying to make women more masculine and men more feminine. Like, that, I feel like, is actually hurting us rather than honoring each other for our strengths and weaknesses. And when we come together, those things balance out to, like, a very harmonious one.

John [00:26:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:30]: That might have been a lot of, like, fluff, but it. The book just does a really good job at, like, telling women like, this is what you should be doing. That will also help your man be the man that you want and need him to be. And also he'll be happier because he's getting to fulfill that role as a man.

John [00:26:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:52]: So it just does a really good. Even though it's written for women and it's called the Empowered Wife, I think it does a good job of highlighting the differences that we have and why, when they come together, that it's better that way.

John [00:27:05]: Yeah. So I would sum that up as don't be controlling. But. Yeah, but. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying.

Nicole [00:27:12]: Well, I mean, all you can control is yourself again. And that's what she says too. It's like. Yeah, she talks about, like, whatever's on your paper, meaning whatever you can control. And that's. That's what a lot of psychology is about. Right. Like, especially in a marriage, like, there should not be this, like, huge need to control. Because I'm sure even as the man who is the leader, right. It's like if you try to hyper control things or control everything to a T, then that's also exhausting.

John [00:27:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:27:42]: And so it's like, you know, the things that when you're a leader, you do have more control over the things, but people really should focus on what they can control about themselves because it'll have an overall beneficial effect to everything in their life and their overall happiness.

John [00:28:00]: Right. Yeah. And even. Even As a man, you shouldn't be trying to control. Control is not the, the answer. If you're an authority, if you're in a position of leadership, you say, this is what I'm going to do. This is what we're going to do. But trying to make sure that people do it, that's where you start to get into the line of control. Because, hey, you respect me. I'm saying this is what we're going to do. I'm saying this is what I'm going to do. It's going to happen whether you are agreeing with it or not. In the sense that, like, I don't need to control you and make sure to micromanage that. That going to happen. Right. So that's how you lead, is you say, okay, well, this is it. And you start going that direction well.

Nicole [00:28:42]: And you build the trust so that, you know, like, it's easy to just follow your lead. Like you said, it's not a control thing. It's not like telling somebody what to do. It's that, like, that you can bring things up. That is maybe more technically telling somebody what to do. But it won't feel that way because you've built. They have this trust in you where they want to follow your lead. You're not convincing them.

John [00:29:08]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:09]: Of anything.

John [00:29:09]: So it's the same thing. Even just. You can see them parenting as well. Right. If you tell your daughter, hey, get your room cleaned up. She doesn't do it, there's a consequence. If you say, hey, get your room cleaned up. She doesn't do it. And you're like, I thought I told you to clean your room. Are you going to clean your room? Hey, you need to clean your room now. You're controlling and there's. And you're losing your power, you know, and you're losing your mind too, at the same time. You just have to say it once and then have a consequence for the, for the thing. And that's what, you know, that's. That's what you should be doing. But. But yeah.

Nicole [00:29:48]: Yeah. So that was my.

John [00:29:50]: Well, one that I got is just. I guess I've. I've become a little bit more of, Is this worth it? Like, think about thinking ahead a little bit more, right. In terms of is it worth this, this approach that I'm going to take. Right. Because sometimes taking the wrong approach, it feels good in the moment when you're upset and you want to say something and we don't even say, you know, bad things. But just, even. Just the way That a thing is approached because for one, one thing with the. I'm like, all right, well, do I really want to talk about that next week about at the end segment? I really want to like, you know, and so many times I've made that mistake, but I find myself doing it less because I think a little bit more ahead and say, do I. Is that really. Is it worth it? Is this going to be worth what's going to happen next after this? And so, yeah, so I think that's helpful. And then that just helps me. I've learned to just think about. Okay, before I say something, let me think about what will happen and let me think about how I can rephrase it and come at this from a. Assuming the other person is understanding. And then I just need to communicate what is going on, you know, or what I would like to see or what, you know, what is troubling me. As opposed to. It's really easy to by default come in an accusatory way saying, why did you do this? Or you're doing this and this is upsetting me, or this, like. As opposed to saying, oh, this happened. And here's how I feel about this, right? Like the more vulnerable, like we talked about. I think being vulnerable and assuming the other person is understanding gets you a lot further than the default approach. But it takes a minute to realize that, all right, I gotta stop and think before I say something and think about how can I say this in a much more empathetic way? And how can I even just change my mind? Because a lot of times I do think we, we. You know, at least I can. I can see myself, even though I'm Bulldog mindset, the anti victim mindset. But I. We all can be susceptible to victim mindset thinking and something happens to us and we go down that rabbit hole. And a lot of times, I think approaching the topic, a lot of times the default is from the victim standpoint, right? Which usually looks like some kind of accusation because you're like, oh, how did they do this to me? Or I can't believe that this. Right. And that's not the. It's usually what's happening in a good relationship with the person that you love is a misunderstanding, right? It's usually not intentional. It might be. You could say that maybe it's neglect in the. In the sense of. Of not thinking about something or. Or not. Not. Not putting enough care into something. But even that is still a misunderstanding because it's. We all have a lot of things going on. Like we all have different perspectives. And so I think that's. That's helped me to just think a little bit ahead and say, all right, how will this end? What's going to happen? Is this worth this? What is a better way? You know?

Nicole [00:33:16]: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think, like you said, vulnerability is a huge thing because accusatory statements is essentially defensiveness.

John [00:33:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:28]: Like, it is. You know, you're, like, accusing somebody, like, you're being defensive of how it's their fault rather than saying, hey, I'm hurt right now. I feel this because this thing happened. Instead of, like, if you're accusatory, you're like, you did this to me. Like, that's not going to get you the response that you want. I mean, it shouldn't get you an aggressive response, but you're essentially shaming somebody for your feelings, which. And maybe it was their part in it somehow, but it's still almost like a attacking, like you defending your hurt to someone else. Like, it's defensive in the other way. Right. Like, exactly. You're defending your hurt so much that you're attacking somebody.

John [00:34:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:21]: With your defense. It's like if you had a shield, you're just ramming them with the shield. Like, yeah, it's a shield. It's not a arrow.

John [00:34:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:28]: But you can still mess somebody up with a shield.

John [00:34:31]: Yeah. Captain America. Bam.

Nicole [00:34:33]: The better way exactly is, you know, coming from that vulnerable place and, like you said, having grace with your partner, because, like you said, majority of the time, it's not going to be intentional. Intentional.

John [00:34:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:49]: At all. So, you know, trying to stay vulnerable, even though that's really hard, but like we talked about, it actually makes you invincible in some ways because you're laying it all out there and you're exposing yourself and you're being vulnerable is definitely the better way to be, which that's also, you know, kind of like getting rid of the defensiveness. That's also hard to do to be vulnerable when you're used to keeping your guard up and protecting yourself, which those normally go hand in hand. Because if you're defensive, you're defending, you know, that part inside of you that you want to keep safe. And being vulnerable is exposing that. So, yeah, it's. It's hard to break out of those patterns, but when you do, it is valuable, and it will make your relationships better.

John [00:35:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:37]: Because of that.

John [00:35:38]: And it. I've, you know, I've talked about before, but it's so much better. And I've learned to say, I don't like this Or I would like this. Those come across. It seems subtle, the difference. But if I tell you that you're doing something wrong. Right. That's. That's attack. That's that reverse defensiveness, like, like you said. But if I say I don't like this, there. There's nothing to argue there. Right. That you don't have to. You can't defend yourself against. I don't like this. No. You're not evoking defense.

Nicole [00:36:18]: Right.

John [00:36:18]: Be in the other person. Because it's true that you don't like it. Like, there's no, you know, someone can try and argue that you should like it, but you don't. You know, but when you say you shouldn't have done this, now there's a. There's a defense that can.

Nicole [00:36:34]: Well, that's an expectation.

John [00:36:35]: Right, Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:36]: Which is a whole nother part. And I was going to say even saying you shouldn't have done this is an expectation or.

John [00:36:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:42]: Whatever. The first thing you said was those are expectations versus I don't like this.

John [00:36:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:47]: I like this.

John [00:36:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:49]: And that's also not controlling because you're not saying you need to do this or don't ever do this. You're just saying what you like and what you don't like.

John [00:36:58]: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that's. That's, I think, also another. Another thing I've learned that I think is. Works a little bit better too, because. Yeah. Trying to think. What. What else? What else? There's so many things I, I feel.

Nicole [00:37:15]: Like with a lot of our topics that I've just really appreciated the relationship that we have. Like seeing a lot of the comments, and even there was one about a lady said she got married young.

John [00:37:30]: Oh, yeah.

Nicole [00:37:31]: Recently. And it was the best decision that she made. And I'm like, look, I. I understand that.

John [00:37:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:38]: And there was another lady too, who's like, people. I think it was the open relationship thing. She was like, people have kind of tarnished what marriage used to be with all these, like, things that they're doing to, like, make their relationship different. But I do think there is a lot of benefit in going back to how thing. How marriage should be.

John [00:38:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:04]: And like, I get that the lady who got married young, it was different times. And, you know, she got. She's been married for like 35 years. And there is something really beautiful about the simplicity of probably how they met and they didn't have these external things distracting them from each other. And that's probably why they have such a great relationship. And I think about that that's what we're trying to get people to understand by explaining all the things that kind of distract you from your relationship, like opening up your marriage or like corn or girls trips and guys trips and, you know, or like not having an open door policy, like trying to have private things, like all these things that we talk about. We're trying to help people get a better, closer connection, have more intimacy with their partner. And I'm just really appreciative that we have that.

John [00:39:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:06]: And I hope that people, like, understand that that's where we're coming from. It's. Again, it's not like we're trying to be controlling. We're not trying to control your relationship. But, you know, everybody has kind of like made marriage their own thing. And in a way that's how it's gonna be. But it's being taken to the extreme.

John [00:39:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:39:27]: And there is something about simplifying marriage back to what it is, like committing to one person forever. You know, as long as there's not abuse going on or, you know, infidelity or whatever like that. The simplicity of that is actually what makes you the most happy and have the best relationship.

John [00:39:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:51]: And so I think a lot of those topics, even though people disagree and, you know, they. They have their own things that they do that I'm just appreciative that you and I have that. And I hope that people want to have the closeness with their partner that we have, because it's just. It's amazing.

John [00:40:16]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's.

Nicole [00:40:20]: I don't know, I just.

John [00:40:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:22]: I mean, I appreciate us talking about all the things, but I hope people eventually learn to appreciate them, like, if they don't already. I know some people do who watch and stuff, but I hope they realize where we're coming from and that it's not. It's not trying to control. It's not telling them, you know, like, this is how you have to do it. But, like, we're living this and it is better. Like, you've been in relationships before. I've been in relationships before and I've had other elements of, like, what people are talking about, like more modernized things, like, involved. And it was nowhere close to the relationship that you and I have.

John [00:41:01]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:41:01]: And I know there is a part of it about being, like, compatible and, you know, we like each other and we're friends and all these different parts to it too. But I do think that by focusing on each other and a lot of the other elements that I mentioned before, having those in Our relationship, like, where we're not letting outside things interfere with our relationship because we value it so much is like what helps make it so wonderful.

John [00:41:31]: Well, and it's just what you said is that I think most people start that way. I think most people do start compatible or at least feeling they're compatible and liking each other.

Nicole [00:41:43]: I would hope so.

John [00:41:43]: A relationship is successful is about preserving that. And that's what all of the things that we talk about are. And that's what makes it what it is. And not only preserving it, but then it can grow.

Nicole [00:41:55]: Right.

John [00:41:56]: And most relationships end up in a state of decay over time. Right. And, and, and, and you have to specifically, like, the reason why we say the things that we say is to prevent that decay from happening.

Nicole [00:42:15]: Right.

John [00:42:15]: That's the, the, you know, the. I was going to talk about the, the law of thermodynamic dynamics. Right. It's like, you know, things go from order to disorder. Right. But entropy, right? You, you have entropy. That happens something specifically to reverse entropy. Because the natural state of things is entropy. Things will dissolve. Things will turn more into chaos. And so I think most people do start out like that. They just lose it. And that's what happens. So.

Nicole [00:42:46]: Right. And you preserve all these things from your wedding. People preserve their dresses, they preserve their flowers. They preserve all these things to keep the memories. Why wouldn't you want to preserve your marriage?

John [00:42:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:42:57]: Because you can preserve it to the way that it was. Like, I feel like we're even better than when we first met. Like, for sure.

John [00:43:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:04]: We talked about the honeymoon phase. Like, I would say we're past that. I don't know what you would call that, the perpetual vacation stage, but you know what I mean, like you said, it, it continues to grow because we protect it. And people try to be like, oh, are you in prison? Why are you protecting it? Why are you saying protecting it? It's not protecting it as in, like, we can't control ourselves. It's protecting the outside world from getting into the beautiful meadow that we've made.

John [00:43:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:32]: Like, it's kind of like if there was like a post apocalyptic apocalyptic movie or something. And there's the last, like, beautiful nature y meadow and the rest is like atomic bombed and it's just like radioactive.

John [00:43:45]: Yeah. You got to have some serious protection to make sure that that doesn't get in there.

Nicole [00:43:50]: Right, Exactly. It's not like we're tempted by the outside world. It's actually the opposite. We don't want any of the outside world to get into Our relationship.

John [00:43:58]: And it's a gradual degradation that occurs. I think that's what. Where people are. They think they're smarter than what they are. Right. Because they think, oh, yeah, you guys are just. You're just insecure or whatever. And it's because they don't realize that it's not something that happens in a night. It's not something that. It's not like, oh, if a girl goes on a girl's night out, that's. That's it. It's. It's the repeated process of doing that. It's the repeated process of that eroding over time, erosion, like, and not having these, These protections in place that eventually causes the. The fault where the thing breaks. And that's what. You don't even notice it. You don't even notice how you got from here to here. Right. So instead of getting from here to here, you're saying, I'm never going to let it happen because I'm on top of it.

Nicole [00:44:56]: You preserve it from the beginning.

John [00:44:58]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:44:58]: In its most beautiful state, too. And so, yeah, it's.

John [00:45:03]: It's like boiling a frog, right? The slow boil.

Nicole [00:45:06]: I've never boiled a frog.

John [00:45:08]: Well, you know how they say how to boil a frog is like, you know, you turn up the heat little by little. It doesn't even know that. It's. It's.

Nicole [00:45:14]: You're more country than I thought you were. I guess so I've never even heard.

John [00:45:19]: You never heard anything about boiling a frog? It's a thing, you know?

Nicole [00:45:23]: No, but I know people who've boiled.

John [00:45:24]: Frogs and even notice that the water is hot, you know, because it's a gradual thing, but that's what happens to. To most people. So.

Nicole [00:45:32]: Yeah.

John [00:45:32]: So what other things. What other things do we have that we've learned lessons from doing this, this podcast or this?

Nicole [00:45:40]: Lessons learned, man. There's a lot of stuff, like, a lot of episodes. I'm trying to think back, like, some of the stuff we've already.

John [00:45:50]: Yeah, I. You know, the personal stuff that we've figured out.

Nicole [00:46:02]: I mean, we hit on a lot of, like, important ones. I feel like I've done more than you have.

John [00:46:07]: No, I. I start off with the. Oh, wait a minute. I was gonna say, I start off with the defensiveness. You do feel. You feel like you've done more than I have. Okay.

Nicole [00:46:20]: Do ya? Yeah, I mean, I just. I feel like you started strong with the defensiveness because.

John [00:46:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:32]: You know, that element of. That is a lot more. Well, I mean, intertwined with a lot of different things than people think.

John [00:46:40]: One of the early things, which I guess I. I kind of. But it just became more emphasized as. As we went through the podcast was just this. This idea of. Of as a man. It doesn't matter why she's upset. It matters that she is upset. That's what matters. Right. And I think that was something that I have figured out is that it doesn't have to be rational. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't. You know, it doesn't even have to be something I did. Right. But you care that. I care about it, that. How you feel, and that's the thing to demonstrate and. And show. Right. So that's. I definitely have learned that that's helped a lot.

Nicole [00:47:33]: So, yeah, I'm trying to think of some other things. I mean, we talked about the control thing, and you're, like, letting go of control. And I've just always had a hard time, like, letting go of control in a lot of ways. But I feel like I've gotten a lot better than I ever have been. And obviously I'm not perfect, and I'm still going to try to control things here and there, but, you know, focusing on what's on my own paper, but also, like, not that I didn't do this before either, but focusing on to how I can help you and how I can help Sophia and helping our family, like, not that that isn't what I was doing, but I guess shifting my perspective of that in a way. And I don't even know if I can, like, explain how I shifted it, but I don't know, like, that also, too. I think there was a part of me when, you know, we got together and I moved here and I didn't have a job for, like, the first time in my life. And that was so weird. And honestly, even now, like, two years in, there's still times where I'm like, I'm not doing anything. Like, even though I'm doing stuff, I'm not doing anything. And maybe the shift in the perspective was that I really focused on and figured out what I'm doing when I'm doing the stuff at home to help you and her. And maybe that's the clarity that I got on it because I struggled with that for a long time. And it is hard if you're a woman that, you know, has found a man that you love and he wants to provide 100% that, yeah, people are gonna be like, what? It's hard to just be provided for, but it is.

John [00:49:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:26]: When you're a woman that you have been independent and you know, figuring your whole life out for 29 years before someone else comes along and is like, I'm gonna, you know, take care of all the things. And even if you like staying home and doing stuff around your house and being a stay at home wife or mom, it's like a part of that is still weird. Like you feel like you're not contributing, you're not helping, you're not, you know, providing value to your family.

John [00:50:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:02]: But you are. You just have to shift their perspective. And I think for most women at least, like in my generation that, you know, grew up with like, you need to not depend on a man mindset, which is good for when you're starting out. But not a lot of people I know are stay at home moms or stay at home wives or, you know, I had never talked to anybody that that was just all they did. So I didn't like, kind of went in and. Yeah, kind of got thrown in. Right. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing and like, I know what I'm doing. But why doesn't it feel like these things?

John [00:50:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:44]: You know, and so, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I've just figured out how it actually helps you and it helps her. And sometimes it's still, you know, I'm like, is this actually doing anything? But then I feel like it's more than now. I can see more.

John [00:51:01]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:02]: Like maybe before I was just blinded by the things because I'm like, I'm not financially helping or I'm not going to work and I'm not, you know, doing these things. And so I couldn't see that is how I used to could see that I'm contributing, like I'm helping. But it was hard to see at first, like how that was beneficial. But I feel like I've gotten better at that and you've helped me with that too.

John [00:51:27]: And I think, I think it's just, it's a common thing also just in, in general and people that we're used to being in survival mode when we're working, we're working to survive, we're paying the bills when you don't have to survive anymore. It even happened to me when I first became financially free and I was like, well, what do I do if I'm not?

Nicole [00:51:51]: What do I do?

John [00:51:52]: Like, surviving has been my thing. I've been trying to survive. Right. And so you gotta, you gotta get a little lost sometimes when you're not into, like, now you're actually living your life. You're not surviving, you're living your life. So now what do you do? How do you actually live your life? You know?

Nicole [00:52:09]: Well. And I feel like I've also had to focus on emotional regulation a little bit more, too, than before. And I think it's from being more in my feminine. And also we talked about this a little bit, like, a few weeks ago that. Because at one point you were like, you can't handle something. And I was like, I can't really. Like, not like I used to.

John [00:52:36]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:52:37]: And it's not like I can't handle it in. Like, I could handle it. I could get myself back to where I could handle it because I had to think about it. Because I didn't even get defensive because I'm like, no, he's right. I can't handle this.

John [00:52:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:50]: Like, I used to be able to.

John [00:52:52]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:52]: But it's because I am in a more emotional place because I am more in my feminine than I was back then. Like, and like you said, in survival mode, there's, like, not a lot of time for emotions when you're in survival mode. It's just do or die.

John [00:53:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:07]: Feeling inside of you, even if it's not actual do or die. But at the same time, too, I don't want to, like, dump all my emotions on you, even though I know I'm the emotional being here.

John [00:53:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:21]: You know, I. I don't want that to become, like, a burden on you or anything like that. So making sure to, like, regulate myself and grow and, you know, take all the things that we sit here and talk about into consideration and do them.

John [00:53:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:38]: Has been really helpful.

John [00:53:39]: Well, it's funny because the number one complaint I get from guys when I'm coaching them or when I'm talking to guys about their women is that they can't handle life. They can't handle things. They're not tough enough. And I'm always like, you're supposed to.

Nicole [00:53:56]: Be the tough one.

John [00:53:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:57]: That's what you should say to them. You're supposed to be the tough one.

John [00:53:59]: I was like, don't try. I get it. I get it. Like, I get it. Like, I understand that if she had to live a day in your shoes, you know, if she knew how the real world work, you know, all of these things. Right. It's like, yeah, but you're shielding her from that. That's what you're doing is like. Because, look, if you weren't there, she would have to deal with life. Right. And maybe she wouldn't deal with it as good as you are dealing with it, and maybe she wouldn't be growing some business or doing whatever, but she'd be surviving. Right. But the whole point is, is that you're shielding her from it so that she doesn't have to be in her masculine and deal with life and she's in her feminine, and she can be feminine. And that's why you're creating that protection instead of thinking, oh, I need to get her to toughen up, or, you know, that's. That's not the. Not the thing. So. Which is something that, I mean, I feel like that was a lesson that I learned in this, really early in this relationship when. When we were figuring out the dynamic of it, because my first instinct also was. Was the same. It's like, she's got to toughen up. She don't like, you know, and it's like, now that's not the right way at all. As a man, that's a surefire way.

Nicole [00:55:10]: To get your woman to act masculine.

John [00:55:11]: Exactly. That's. Exactly.

Nicole [00:55:12]: And a lot of women are. Men say that to the women that they're with.

John [00:55:16]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:55:16]: So it's like, the thing is, you can't ask for a feminine woman and then treat her like she needs to toughen up.

John [00:55:25]: Right, Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:55:26]: Because she will do that. But you're not gonna like it because it's not gonna be feminine.

John [00:55:30]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:55:32]: Like, it's because you're basically saying, toughen up in the way of how a man would, like, don't. Why are you letting this bother you? Don't do that. But women are emotional and they do care. That's like the part of them that is the feminine core. That's what makes them mothers. It's like, what makes them who they are. And so you can't ask for that and have those things without the trade off of, like, she's not gonna be a man and she's not just gonna do it or she's not gonna like, whatever. Like, she can. Yeah, but you're not gonna like it because the other things get muted. So, like, I think men really need to think about that, and I get even as a woman, how it can be a lot when a woman is emotional. I get that. And she should be working on regulating herself and, you know, expressing her emotions in the right way.

John [00:56:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:29]: But you have to realize that. That if you want a feminine woman, that is what it is.

John [00:56:33]: Exactly. Yeah. No, that's exactly right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:35]: And like, you shouldn't also talk down on her because she's doing what you supposedly want.

John [00:56:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:56:42]: Because the thing is, is if you criticize a woman and be like, you need to toughen up, she's gonna do it, and then she's gonna go back to the other side.

John [00:56:49]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:56:50]: And then how are you gonna get her back over here when you told her to toughen up?

John [00:56:54]: Yeah, yeah. No, I remember earlier in our relationship, I mean, somewhere, maybe in the middle, where I, like, with. With dealing with. With our. Our daughter. And I was like, you gotta be able to handle it, you know, because. And then. And I was kind of getting upset with you because. Because you couldn't handle it. Right. And. And I was like. And then I realized, no, that's not. I was doing the wrong thing by getting upset about you not being able to handle it. Because it's okay that you can't handle it because it's like the emotional part of it. Yes. And you don't have to. Right. Like, yeah, there's certain things that you have to do, but it's okay that I can step in, I can take on the thing that you can't take on, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It's great because I want you to be that way. I want you to be feminine, you know, and again, it's not an insult. It's not to say that like, that you can't. You obviously deal. Deal with the things. But I'm just saying at an emotional level, right. It's going to take a toll on you. And I was getting upset about that at one point. Right. I mean, you, you know, that was it. Right. And then. But that was not the right thing to do. Right. Because. Yeah. And that's something I had to learn. Was that. No, hey, I want it to. It's not that I want it to take an emotional toll on you, but. But I. I want it. You to be soft enough that that stuff that affects you, that doesn't affect me, it affects you. Because that's the whole point. That's, that's the difference is that, yeah, I could stand there and she can say whatever, you know, not that she, you know, but, you know, there have been some instances, all kids, you know, and I'm unfazed. I can just go on and do my work and whatever. It's not a big deal. But in the same situation, yeah, I want that to affect you a lot more because I want you to maintain being soft and being, being. Being like that being caring and compassion and the thing that I, I. Because I have, one of us has to be the tough one and one of us, but we both don't want to be the tough one. That's not good. That's not good for anyone. You see what I'm saying? So it's like, I'm able to do that and now in order to allow you to be the tough one. Whereas before I was. I was almost seeing it as an inconvenience, like, okay, well, now I got to deal with this. And it's like, no, it's not an inconvenience. It's. It is what my actual job is, right, is to be the one that stands in the front, you know, that takes the hits, that takes the. Has the shield and protects everyone else so that they can be live their life without having to worry about having to protect themselves from.

Nicole [00:59:38]: Well, there are instances, too, I think what men need to realize a little bit as well, too, is that just because your wife's the emotional one doesn't mean she can take on unlimited emotional baggage from every single person. Because she's also the more emotional adult.

John [00:59:55]: Right?

Nicole [00:59:56]: She's also taking on your emotional instances and trying to help you. I mean, not. I know, not all wives do this the right way. And then she's taking on the kids. Emotional problems. And so she's. She has her own emotions, which are more than yours. She's taking on yours, which affect her sometimes, depending on how sensitive she is, just as much or maybe even more than her own emotions.

John [01:00:18]: Right?

Nicole [01:00:19]: And then the child's, which is like, with a child, it's even more intense in a way, because you have to balance. Like, I want to save them from all these things in the world, but they also have to learn how to deal with all these things in the world. And then there's like, the attitude and the, you know, the normal hormone stuff that comes with that too. And like, in instances, too, where you're working all day and you come back, it's like, her. And I've already had, like, probably 10 separate conversations that you don't know how they even went at all. And so, yeah, from your perspective, you're like, why can't you handle this? Because you just got out of work. So this is the first conversation you're having with her. You're like, this is easy. I'm just. This is. I'm dealing with this for the first time. But yeah, it's. It doesn't mean that she can take on every single emotional thing Just because she's the emotional person doesn't mean that she's the emotional dumping ground for everybody. Cuz she has her own emotions that are hard to deal with and sometimes don't make sense.

John [01:01:17]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:17]: And she has to navigate those and yours, like her husband's and the kids.

John [01:01:21]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [01:01:23]: So yeah, it's, you know, it's a whole different dynamic. But when you find the balance and you incorporate all these things, it is more beneficial. Like you said, like when you realized like, oh, I can help you in an area where you're like kind of overwhelmed because of the state that you're in, I'm not in that state, so I can help do that and vice versa. Like there are things that I could help you with that you needed done that you might not have the time to do or the right je ne sais quoi for it.

John [01:02:01]: That's right.

Nicole [01:02:02]: So yeah, yeah.

John [01:02:05]: I think the other thing, I guess maybe the last thing I'll say that I learned was it was that when I get upset, I can express things in the wrong way. That's something. You know, I didn't really realize that as much about myself, but over the year, over us doing the podcast, I realized that there are a lot of times I might be getting upset and not communicating properly. I thought I was a good, I mean, I'm a good communicator, but I thought I was a better communicator than I was. And I realized that, yeah, when I'm talking, I'm communicating, but initiating a communication about a thing, sometimes I was lacking in that. And so I guess what I learned from that was that it's better when you're upset about something. It's better to communicate that quickly. Right, because. Exactly. Yeah. And properly. Right. Because when I think when something first happens, that's not the time to communicate it either. Right. So let's say something happens and it, it upsets you. What I've learned is the best thing to do is not to address it in that moment. In many cases, especially if you're really upset about it, to take a moment and give it a little bit of time to think about and then address it. But don't not address it, don't let it fester. Because then you can approach it in a way that is less emotionally charged. Exactly.

Nicole [01:03:53]: Yeah.

John [01:03:53]: Because then you can say, oh, by the way, I don't know if you knew this, but when you did this, I didn't like this, or this made me feel this way, or this upset me in some way. Right. Because now I can deal it. I can say it in a. More of a matter of a fact, as opposed to, like, we talked about the accusatory or, you know, the emotional charge or then. Or, you know, and this is, I think, a destructive thing that happens for a lot of people in relationships is it builds. Builds up over time, and you. You find new instances of the thing to confirm your, you know, and then. And then by the time that you are ready to talk about it, you've got five different instances you want to.

Nicole [01:04:34]: Point to, or they didn't even confirm. They're just like a little off and you can twist them into fitting.

John [01:04:40]: Exactly. Yeah. Because you. Yeah. And so. Because you're looking for that now at that point. Right. As opposed to. And that's where you blindside people and they're like, where did this come from? It's like, well, I've been keeping notes.

Nicole [01:04:55]: Right. But not telling you about.

John [01:04:57]: But not telling you.

Nicole [01:04:58]: I've been holding all this against you. But you didn't know until now.

John [01:05:01]: Yeah, because. Because that's. And that. And that's where also someone's more likely to get defensive because now they got a lot of things to like, and they. And they really didn't intend to do those things. But you didn't even let them know. And so I found that that was something that I could do. And so I've learned to be a lot better about that. Just to say. Just have a quick conversation, just say about this thing, and then usually things get resolved very, very quickly. So. Yeah.

Nicole [01:05:30]: Yeah. Can't think of. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty more stuff. Yeah.

John [01:05:35]: But it was a long.

Nicole [01:05:37]: I don't know what else to add.

John [01:05:40]: All right, well, I guess we can wrap it up then.

Nicole [01:05:43]: But we don't have any.

John [01:05:44]: We don't have any dirt. We don't have any dirt for you, right?

Nicole [01:05:48]: No, we don't.

John [01:05:49]: I mean. No, we don't have any. Any dirt.

Nicole [01:05:53]: Yeah, I don't. I can't think of anything.

John [01:05:55]: Yeah. And anytime we were close to getting into dirt, we both just, like, were smart enough to. To de escalate. Right. We didn't even really hit, like, a point of escalation, but we were both smart enough, I think, to de escalate and not.

Nicole [01:06:12]: Well, like I said, I think it's just becoming a new habit.

John [01:06:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:16]: And so it's easier to not even. Because I can't even think of what you're talking about, but I can think of, like, ways that I've used, like, the things that we talked about today, like the new better habits. But I can't remember like what.

John [01:06:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:31]: Like started it because like you said, it got diffused so early that it never was even like a blip on the radar really. It was like maybe like a little like about to be. But then. But yeah. I can't think of any specific instance but you know, knock on wood, don't jinx us. But like I said, you know, we've, we've learned a lot this year and a lot of the things that we recapped and I mean if you've watched all the episodes, you've seen the times where we've had to come on here and have whole episodes about talking for hours or having our end segments be something and it's not like we're not gonna not have the end segment. Like we won't get rid of it but hopefully we won't have much for you guys because.

John [01:07:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:07:15]: Or we are really trying.

John [01:07:16]: But I propose we change the end segment to be where we do we do different accent voices and do.

Nicole [01:07:28]: We. We'll discuss. We'll discuss.

John [01:07:31]: We perform a skit, you know, that we can do.

Nicole [01:07:35]: We should keep it. But maybe on the days, the weeks we don't have anything, we'll.

John [01:07:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:07:39]: I don't know do something like that.

John [01:07:41]: Just being silly but.

Nicole [01:07:43]: Being silly but serious.

John [01:07:44]: But yeah, no but it's good. Yeah, no, but it's good but it's good. But I mean it does show that, that we have learned and, and grown over the time and it has been helpful having accountability podcast and we haven't missed one week of releasing episodes. Right. So we've done 52 episodes in a row weekly. So that's, that's something.

Nicole [01:08:07]: That's a. Yeah.

John [01:08:09]: An accomplishment.

Nicole [01:08:10]: But we gotta get some reviews and.

John [01:08:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:08:12]: Well let me see subscribers.

John [01:08:14]: I'll look at the. At their.

Nicole [01:08:16]: Share this with your friends. Family. I didn't have relatives. Yeah, I guess that's technically family.

John [01:08:25]: I'm. I'm waiting for. For people to say that they want to be on the podcast, you know, but I'm surprised that we haven't gotten.

Nicole [01:08:34]: Anyone who wants to be on.

John [01:08:36]: I mean banana fingers, but that's all right. So. Yeah. So if, if you do want to give us some love, you can leave us a review on Apple Podcasts app with some words would be appreciated. Yeah. And if you got a question for us, a problem that you want some help with topic for the. For an episode, you can email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com you can hit us up on Twitter.

Nicole [01:09:04]: Twitter? We don't have a Twitter.

John [01:09:06]: Let's go.

Nicole [01:09:07]: Did you make a Twitter podcast?

John [01:09:08]: Yeah, I made a Twitter.

Nicole [01:09:11]: You're just posting whatever you want.

John [01:09:13]: I don't know. I mean, you can message us on. On TikTok, but Instagram is probably the thing if you. If you want to do that and if you want to be. If you're in San Diego, you want to be on the show. Just an email, let us know. Yeah, we'll audition you.

Nicole [01:09:26]: You don't have to audition.

John [01:09:27]: Yeah, we'll do some live. Live coaching also on the show.

Nicole [01:09:30]: But you do have to be serious, so we might ask you some questions just to make sure you're serious and not just trying to come on and yell banana fingers and then run.

John [01:09:39]: We'll have to see what this season of the show. Maybe we'll make some changes, add some things, right?

Nicole [01:09:44]: Yeah, maybe we'll have a. I think I saw somebody comment to have, like, guests or something, which obviously we're trying to get you guys to be a guest, but. Yeah, or maybe we'll figure out the call in thing or something like that.

John [01:09:58]: Yeah, or maybe we'll have like a wheel that we spin and then.

Nicole [01:10:01]: A wheel.

John [01:10:01]: Yeah, and then what it lands on.

Nicole [01:10:03]: It's like Wheel of Relationships.

John [01:10:08]: That's it. Yeah, the wheel of relationships.

Nicole [01:10:12]: Where are we gonna get a wheel?

John [01:10:14]: I don't know. All right, we'll see you next week.

Nicole [01:10:17]: Bye. Cheerio. Through every fault we find our way.