Nicole [00:00:00]: Even if I don't expect you to say I love you back. If I say I love you, right, If I said I love you and you were like, fuck you, that still hurts me.

John [00:00:08]: But the recognition is that you hurt yourself. No one can hurt you. Only we can hurt ourselves.

Nicole [00:00:14]: Yeah, but I think it's unrealistic to say that the people we care about most, like, can't hurt us.

John [00:00:18]: But that's the high standard, is that the people that we care about most cannot hurt us. No one can hurt us. Only we can hurt ourselves.

Nicole [00:00:25]: What about people who have been physically abused?

John [00:00:28]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws, we complete each other. Better than perfect, we stay through every.

Nicole [00:00:41]: Fault we find our way.

John [00:00:45]: All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:54]: That's right.

John [00:00:55]: All right.

Nicole [00:00:55]: And it's 2026.

John [00:00:57]: It is 2026. 20 2020.

Nicole [00:01:00]: I hope it's not 2026.

John [00:01:03]: It will be soon, you know.

Nicole [00:01:04]: No, I hope I'm not around for 2020 26.

John [00:01:08]: But, yeah, so we're gonna. Well, what I was thinking what actually got me in the repeat mode was thinking that the episodes we're recording, we're actually gonna be releasing pretty much right away, so it'll be relevant. Like, normally we have to, like, you know, time, dilate, dilate, buffer.

Nicole [00:01:30]: So. But no, that's like, what, two weeks in 2026. So still relatively new. So, yeah, we decided to make kind of like a, you know, healthy habits and.

John [00:01:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:45]: Relationship ideas or advice for relationships in 2026.

John [00:01:52]: Yeah, exactly. All right, so let's see, how should we start it off then?

Nicole [00:01:58]: I think just start with one that you think's important that people should focus on maybe if they're trying to better their relationship or get in a good relationship in 2026.

John [00:02:09]: Yeah. What. What is your top one? Nicole, what do you say?

Nicole [00:02:13]: I think for me, I would say communicating respectfully. And like you said, we kind of talked about this a little bit lovingly, which means not yelling, not calling each other names again, not even, like, joking with each other in, like, a harsh way, because I think that's such a valuable skill for people just in general to build. But it's very necessary for a romantic relationship, because as soon as you operate from a place where you're yelling at each other or you're calling each other names or attacking each other's character or, like, joking in a way where the person doesn't Know if you're being serious or not, and it's kind of hurtful, like it could be perceived as hurtful, then you're kind of chipping away at your relationship. And I think a lot of people might be like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. Like, everybody does these things, right? And yes, everybody has emotions, and like, everybody might be upset or get angry or be sad, but you do have a choice of how you respond to people. And I think a lot of people think that it's out of their control, but it just means that they have not practiced actually having control of their emotions and the way they're expressing them. And I'm not saying that you have to be perfect with this, but I'm saying that you'll feel closer to your partner and you'll have a deeper, more intimate relationship if you learn to communicate respectfully and lovingly, especially during the times when you are upset. And then that will translate into the rest of your life where you won't allow other people to dictate how you act, no matter what they do. Which is still hard, right? Like, it's still hard, but. But it's so valuable.

John [00:04:07]: Yeah, it becomes your default. It's like that your communication. Because it's like you can justify and say, oh, you're just joking. Or like people, you know, people yell and whatever, but. But like, it's better to just have that habit. Like, part of kind of what I was going to say as. As one of the habits, which, I mean, we could kind of combine them, is. Is. Is respond. Always respond in love, like, to everything. Every event that actually served me really well in 2025, that was one of the first things that I had kind of proposed for myself was just like, remind myself, respond in love. But this is a good habit. It's just, you know, like, if you think about all the situations, right. Almost every situation that we've ever been in in our relationship where. Where we've. We've gone onto tumultuous ground, right? It's. It's. If we had responded in love, if that had been the thing that we'd focus on, then it would have avoided that situation. So.

Nicole [00:05:10]: Yeah, and it's easy to get defensive. Like, I'm not saying that what I'm saying to do is easy, but it's necessary. And like you said, it can be built. Like, the habit of responding that way can be built. You will make mistakes. And even when you get into a habit of it, you can still make mistakes, but it will make you feel so much better about not only yourself, but your relationship that you'll want to continue to work on it and to continue to always try to operate from that level.

John [00:05:43]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:05:43]: And so I think that is the most important. Like, people say communication is key, but I think when people communicate poorly as well, though, or it's still confusing, it's not clear what people are saying, that doesn't really make communication beneficial.

John [00:06:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:01]: But communicating in a vulnerable, respectful, loving way.

John [00:06:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:06:09]: Will get you the relationship that you want and help improve all your relationships in your life.

John [00:06:16]: Exactly. Yeah. It's how you communicate. It is. It is important. Right. Like, just even the tone.

Nicole [00:06:23]: Yeah. Because I think our relationship would be a lot different if we didn't operate from that way. And you're even talking about the times we get defensive. But even our level of communication is no yelling at each other, no name calling, and no joking, like, harshly with each other. Like, that's always been a thing. And so even in our instances where we don't get it 100. Correct.

John [00:06:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:49]: We still are probably more connected than most people are.

John [00:06:53]: Like, if you. If we're joking around and you're like, oh, you're such a. Like, it would be very shocking. Shock. It would. Like, I think for most people it wouldn't. But like, we would both pick up on that. Be like, oh, wow. Like, that was. Like. Even if it's not meant in a negative way. But. Right, but which is good. But that's why it's a good habit to have. Yeah. Like, just to. To. I want to say, almost it's like it's being gentle with each other. Right. Like.

Nicole [00:07:22]: Well, I think too, it goes back to, like, okay, your example, like, if I called you a moron, or even if I called somebody that was being disrespectful to me a moron.

John [00:07:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:34]: Now, I have harmed myself.

John [00:07:36]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:07:37]: Because I have attacked or tried to harm someone else.

John [00:07:41]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:42]: And that makes me know better than what they're trying to do to me. You know what I mean? And I don't. Even if someone's trying to harm me, I'm not going to go out of my way to harm them. And a lot of people live from that tit for tat. And that doesn't mean that you have to tolerate somebody who's trying to harm you. But the second that you try to harm somebody back exactly puts you on the same level.

John [00:08:09]: Right. And you end up harming yourself. So.

Nicole [00:08:11]: Right. And actually you harm yourself longer because that stays with you whether you consciously know it or not. And you beat yourself up over the fact that you went to that level. Like, you went there when, honestly, I feel like the core of all of us is not attacking other people or it's not like, saying mean things or yelling at each other, calling each other names. It's that we do want to operate from a higher level.

John [00:08:44]: Yeah. From love.

Nicole [00:08:45]: Yeah, from love. And, like, so every time, even if you think, like, oh, it's not that big of a deal, the thing is that, like, talking to each other poorly has become normalized, but it's not normal. Again, like, we've talked about a few other things in regards to this, that they might be normal today, but that doesn't mean that they're the right thing. It just means that so many people are doing the wrong thing that people think it's fine to keep doing that.

John [00:09:14]: Then you should normalize it in your relationship to not. It's like, imagine if I ever told you, hey, get off my case. You'd probably be shocked as hell that those words would come out of my mouth.

Nicole [00:09:27]: I'd be like, your case is my case.

John [00:09:29]: But I wouldn't ever say something like that to you. You would never say that to me. Like, we would never say that in our relationship. But that's like, just normal vocabulary in a lot of people's relationships. Like, get off my case. Like, stop. You know, whatever. And. But, but, yeah, but we've made it so that it's. It's. It's not. It's not allowed or. It's not that it's even not allowed. It's just like, it wouldn't. We've gotten to the practice of. Of the way that we speak that we would never say those things. So.

Nicole [00:09:59]: Yeah. And it's not even that, though. It's how much I do respect and love you.

John [00:10:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:06]: Will not allow me to say those things.

John [00:10:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:09]: Like, at this point, it's not even, like, a conscious thing. Like you said, it's not even a rule. It's that I would never want to intentionally hurt someone that I love and care about. Like, and even with, like, if it's a stranger, like, why am I going to be hateful towards them when they're hateful towards me? Because that just proves that I'm not as loving as I want to be. Right. So if you want to be a better person and a loving person, you have to be that way to everybody. And again, that doesn't mean tolerating disrespect, because a lot of people might get confused because, of course, I think a lot of people cling to the wrong ways that they communicate with people because they're like, well, I don't want to be a pushover. I don't want to be walked all over. They disrespected me, so I'm going to disrespect them back. Like, you should do the right thing and choose to walk away or choose to not communicate with that person or not be friends with that person. Or if you're in a relationship, like, not married. Obviously, if you're married, you need to do your due diligence. But if you're in a relationship and this has been happening, like, walk away from that relationship. Like, those are the things you should be doing and those are still the loving things to do.

John [00:11:34]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:11:35]: Instead of just trying to get back at them the same way that they got at you.

John [00:11:40]: And that's why I had that mantra of like. And all things respond in love. Like, you know, just if you take the second to reflect, to think about, you know, how can I respond in this situation? Am I responding in the situation from a place of love? Then yes. Sometimes it's not going to be exactly what someone wants you to do. You know, sometimes there's going to be some discipline there. But it's like, what's the motive? Like, where's your response coming from? And there's no reason why your response should be coming from anywhere besides love.

Nicole [00:12:15]: Otherwise there's a problem, which that I'm sure can sound a little overwhelming to people, especially if they're not operating from this level. Yeah. But I. I want people to know that even if you are doing the things that we're saying is the wrong way to communicate, you can learn to communicate the right way. And I think that's why that's the most important one for 2026, for me, is because I think when you fix this thing or you work on this thing, it helps so many other areas of not only your relationship, but of your life.

John [00:12:49]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:12:49]: That you can handle all the other things that you might need to work on in your relationship or in your life.

John [00:12:55]: Yeah. Standards become habits, and then they become normal. And that's. Yeah. And then it doesn't require so much effort to. Because you don't even consciously do the thing. Yeah. So.

Nicole [00:13:07]: Well, I guess we should talk about maybe a little bit how to do this, because I'm gonna sit here and tell you that I was not a very nice girl at one part point in my life. When John met my parents, they were like, has she been mean to you yet? And he was. They were like, or no. John responded no. And my parents were like, are you for real? What? They were shocked. And so maybe some people might relate to. You know, I was picked on in school, which a lot of people were. And I learned that being meaner than the mean people to me was the way to protect myself. That was obviously not the right way.

John [00:13:44]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:45]: But at the time, I didn't have anybody giving me this advice. And it did work. For the wrong reasons, but it did work.

John [00:13:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:54]: And so, like, that I kind of continued down that path in order to, like, protect myself from other people. But really I was hurting other people.

John [00:14:04]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:14:05]: And I didn't really consciously realize that until I got old enough to realize what I had done to myself.

John [00:14:15]: Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's the big thing.

Nicole [00:14:18]: And so I think the first thing that people have to do if they're operating in a similar way to what I just mentioned is that you do have to look at what you've done.

John [00:14:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:29]: Like, that's kind of the only step forward is look at what you've done and look at that. You have now become the thing that you tried to protect yourself against.

John [00:14:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:38]: And, like, forgive yourself for that and, like, try to move forward and be better. Because I think if you skip that part, then you're not really going to move forward, if that makes sense. And, I mean, it does help having someone in your life that you really look up to and respect and love at this really high level. But, like, you don't need that in order to take the steps that you need. But you do have to look in the mirror and realize what you've been doing. And you have to be honest that every time you do lash out at somebody, you are not only hurting them, but you're hurting yourself. And even if they don't tell you that you hurt them.

John [00:15:20]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:21]: You know what your intention was? Like, you have to be honest with it. So I think that's the first step. Like, if you're in a relationship and you guys communicate by yelling each other, calling each other names, I think it might be good to sit down with your partner and be like, hey, like, I am really sorry that I've been. Act like, operating this way.

John [00:15:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:43]: Like, I do respect you, and I realize I have not been acting that way by the way that we talk about things. And even if I'm upset, it's not. Not okay for me to spill all that onto you by yelling at you or calling you names. And you know, picking on you or whatever it is, criticizing you harshly. And I want to do better moving forward for our relationship. Now, that doesn't automatically change the other person as well, too, because they're probably also responding the same way, but you can't control them.

John [00:16:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:20]: But I can guarantee that if you apologize and you own it, and you are like, I'm gonna work on this because I want to be better, and I don't want to hurt you because I care about you, something in them is going to soften, and hopefully you'll both work together on this path to communicating in a more healthy way. But, you know, you can't 100% count on that either. But you can be the example or the leader, whether you're the man or woman. I mean, ideally, the man leading this would be better, but a woman can still be like, hey, you know, I'm really sorry. And I don't think that women realize how healing that might be to a man to apologize and to tell the man that you respect and love them and apologize for acting differently than that.

John [00:17:13]: Yeah, because a lot of the. The errors that we make come from either trying to protect our heart or protect our ego. But, like, that instinct to try to protect ourselves, that's where we end up harming other people and not responding in love. And it's like, we have to let go of that trying to protect ourselves. But that's also what it is to be vulnerable in a relationship. It's like, literally, vulnerable means not trying to protect yourself. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like, you know, and so. And even when people are hurting you like, to respond in love, because like you said, you know, with what you kind of learned, was that, okay, well, before, I was just letting people do whatever. And then. So protecting yourself looked like, you know, the immature version of protecting yourself looked like hurting other people or, like, you.

Nicole [00:18:09]: Know, defending myself back. You know, it's kind of like a war. Like, I felt like in order to win the war, I had to do what they were doing.

John [00:18:18]: But literally, to protect yourself, like, to. Actually, you don't even have to do that. Like, you just have to just not let people do. Like, it's. It's a. It's a. It's a much more passive thing where you don't allow people to violate you, but it doesn't require a violation or violence in order for that to occur. It's just a matter of just, I don't allow this thing because you have that. So it takes a level of Realizing that that's all that it takes. But I think, like you said, the lower level is that we want to defend ourselves and get. Yeah, exactly. But that's why it comes down to that root is like. And you just have to kind of. Also, I think you have to think in your head, like, is there any reason why? Because if you don't think about this, then you're not going to actually commit to it. But you got to really think about it and say, is there any reason why I should ever, in any circumstance, not respond in love? Like, you have to reason it out in your own head. And it's like. And if you really think about this, like, there's no reason why that you would ever want to respond in a way that's not coming from a place of love.

Nicole [00:19:33]: I agree. And I think the people who would disagree are still really hurt from whatever hurt them, you know, like, they're still in that defense.

John [00:19:45]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:19:46]: War mode like we just talked about. And I don't think people realize it is a lower level.

John [00:19:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:52]: Or like a more immature way to view. Because it feels like you're standing up for yourself. But like you said, when you really. When you have to face what you've done and that you haven't been sticking up for yourself, that you've been attacking other people as well.

John [00:20:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:10]: You have to realize that standing up for yourself, like you said, is allowing people to act how they're gonna act, but you not being phased by it and acting accordingly. As in, like, okay, well, I'm gonna remove myself from the situation. Or, you know, we're not going to have this conversation right now until we can talk, you know, in a respectful way. Like, that is actually standing up for yourself.

John [00:20:35]: Not feeling the need to stand up for. Like, the best example I can give is actually, you know, not to get into religious, but the example of Jesus. Right. Because, you know, if you believe, like, for people that do believe, you know, Jesus is God incarnate. Right. So the full power of God. Yet then, you know, people, they dished all kinds of abuse on him. Right. You know, but he didn't defend himself. Like, he had the power to do so. Like, truly having power is not using power. You know, that's what true power is.

Nicole [00:21:19]: And that's like a whole. We're going down a, like, psychological wormhole here.

John [00:21:24]: Yeah. But it's not needing to defend yourself. Right, right. Like, that's the thing is. And so, you know, or to stand up for yourself, because that's the words that you're Using is so. So that's the thing is like, you know, when you, when you let go of that, that's the key. But. But it's a good example, right. Like, of. Of someone who had the ultimate power. Right. Whether you believe it or not, it doesn't matter. Like, they had the example of what does a person with the ultimate power do. They turn the other cheek. Right. Because that's the real demonstration of the power. So it's like, you would think the primitive kind of way that we think is like, oh, they need to stand up for themselves and say, you can't do this to me. And that's actually comes from a place of. Of weakness. Right.

Nicole [00:22:15]: Which. Yeah. People don't understand that that's actually the weaker way to be. It's not the stronger way.

John [00:22:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:23]: But, yeah, I do think, again, everything that we've kind of mentioned here, and again, the people that might still be hesitant on breaking out of this, you know, kind of like defensive, aggressive way of communicating. I think that if you just tried it.

John [00:22:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:46]: A few times and see how different the responses could be, even if your first attempt, it might be the same. You're, you know, if you're a woman and you come to your husband and again, you, like, apologize or, you know, you're like, talking about a hard topic respectfully, and he's still being disrespectful. I guarantee you that even if he doesn't say it to you, he will have felt differently from that conversation than in the past. Because a lot of times people feel justified. And again, I felt this way as well when I was kind of in my mean mode is like, well, they're being mean to me.

John [00:23:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:25]: So I'm allowed to be mean to them.

John [00:23:28]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:23:28]: That's what gets everybody stuck in this. This loop of just.

John [00:23:33]: And that becomes a protection of the ego.

Nicole [00:23:36]: Right.

John [00:23:36]: So, yeah.

Nicole [00:23:37]: So even if, you know, your husband might still be operating from the way that he was operating.

John [00:23:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:43]: He should still reflect a little bit on you being the bigger person and not stooping to that level and not attacking him. And even if he's attacking you and you're not attacking him.

John [00:23:57]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:57]: I would think that most people that can reflect are going, I think if you came to him again with another situation, he would probably act a little bit different.

John [00:24:07]: Yeah. Because it comes from trying to teach someone a lesson. Like, remember I was telling you last night the worst mistakes I've made in my entire life have been me trying to teach someone a lesson like, we don't need to teach someone a lesson. That's true.

Nicole [00:24:22]: It's not our job.

John [00:24:23]: Exactly. It's not our job. But that's what it comes from. That's where that feeling come from, is like, they did this to me, so let me teach them a lesson. Like, well, you're gonna teach yourself a lesson, which is that you can't solve pain with pain. Right. You can't fight fire with fire.

Nicole [00:24:42]: Everyone's on fire.

John [00:24:43]: Like, that's why it has to be a response of love always, regardless of what. And it's also, you know, the thing is, like, because we try to defend ourselves and. And I think the greater wisdom there is that, like, you know, if you understand more than someone, then you don't try to correct them in the sense that, like, they're bad or wrong. Like, you come from an understanding of, like, okay, they don't know what they're doing. And that is a different energy, a different approach. And that can be handled in a loving way as opposed to whenever you're like, oh, they don't know what they're doing, they're wrong. That's a hateful energy. And it actually speaks of ignorance. It's like, you're at the same level. You might be at a lesser level thinking that you're at a higher level, but at the very least, or at the very best, you're at the same level. But if you're at a higher level, then you would look down and you would say, okay, they don't know what they're doing, so how can they respond? In a way, it's like, just like you would look at a young child, like a toddler or something, and be like, oh, I'm not going to harshly respond to that child because they're doing something ignorant. Like, I'm going to gently show them the way. And I think that's the way to look at the things. Especially when you've been wronged or hurt. It's very easy to get into that.

Nicole [00:26:16]: It is a good way. But here's the other problem.

John [00:26:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:18]: People also yell at their children.

John [00:26:21]: Right. We'll do an episode on that, I guess.

Nicole [00:26:24]: But I'm saying, though, like, what you're saying is a thousand percent true, but that's why this is so important. Yeah. For not only your intimate relationships, but all your relationships. Because there's plenty of parents that yell at their kids. There's some parents that tell them they're stupid or whatever. You know, like things that you shouldn't be saying, especially to someone you love. But, like, we Talked about, not even to a stranger that's calling you stupid.

John [00:26:51]: It becomes like, you have to have that standard that you don't do this. It just like. But it becomes normal. Like, I remember when I was running, right when I first started running, I was running, like, three miles three times a week. And I did that for years, and it never. And I would, like, look at people that ran a marathon, 26.2 miles. I'd be like, wow, that's crazy. That's insane. How could someone. I can't do. Do it? Other people can do that. It's just not. But it's because I hadn't created the standard for myself of running the miles I needed to run in order to be able to do that. And now I've run, you know, multiple, many, many marathons and ultra marathons. But it's like, in my mind at that point, that seems so. Like, that's extreme. That's crazy. No. Who runs 50 miles? Or. That's insane. Right? That's how people think about, oh, you never yell at your kids, right? Or you never yell at your. At your spouse or call them a name. No, like, that's it. It seems that extreme until you make that the standard. Just like I had to make it the standard of, like, accept in my mind, yeah, I can do this. And it became the standard, and then it became the thing, and then it becomes easy.

Nicole [00:28:05]: Yeah.

John [00:28:05]: You know, and that's how it is. Like, because I think a lot of.

Nicole [00:28:07]: People gonna magically happen, right? You have to make it happen. And like you said, have the standard be like, no. Even if in your head, you're. You want to be like, you're so stupid. Keep it in your head.

John [00:28:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:20]: At first. And then eventually. And then you won't even have that popping up.

John [00:28:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:25]: And then you get to a point where you're like, I would never call somebody stupid. Like, it's all baby steps. Because that's what I want people to understand. Because I don't in any way want to just talk about this and be like, oh, it's a light switch.

John [00:28:38]: Like, it takes the effort.

Nicole [00:28:41]: Yeah. It's baby steps. It's one thing at a time. It's not letting. It's not yelling. It's not letting the mean thing you want to say come out of your mouth. It's steps like that. Until you don't yell at all. Even if someone's yelling at you or even if you're really upset.

John [00:28:58]: Right? Because no one's done anything to you. Nothing's personal. Like, we're talking about is like, you know, but it takes time to realize that.

Nicole [00:29:08]: Yeah, well. And I think if you're taking things so personally from someone that's saying something to you, you care about that person. And so why would you want to treat them poorly, even if they're treating you poorly?

John [00:29:22]: Well, it's like I shared that. That clip from that guy Julian. I think I shared it on my Instagram. You probably saw it too, where. Where he was talking about how I showed it to you specifically too, where it's like, okay, anytime that you're getting upset by something, it's like, it's not the thing. It's. It's triggering something in you. And so, like, there's something in you that, like, why should any words that anyone says or anything like, cause a reaction from you? It's because there's something in you that's being triggered. So it's. It's kind of a good thing. Right? So. So I think when you as you recognize that, then it's like, okay, well, people aren't doing things to you. Like, they're not doing them to you, they're just doing things. But you're having a reaction. The reaction is. Belongs to you. Yeah, there's something that's bringing that up.

Nicole [00:30:20]: That's very true. And it. That is the, like, core thing that you do need to get down to. However, the other part of that is figuring out a way to not be involved with that or not allowing someone to speak to you that way or whatever the thing might be. Because I don't want people to think that people can just beat up on you. And if it upsets you, that's your trigger. Like, that is true, because you shouldn't be taking things personally. But that also doesn't mean that if you're in an abusive relationship or something and someone's talking to you that way, that you have to stay there.

John [00:31:00]: Right? For sure, absolutely. Yeah. That's not what we're saying at all. But. But it also is. Is interesting too, I think when you think about it, like, if you're actually responding to things in love all the time, you know, does. Does the situation change? I'm not saying an abusive situation, but perhaps even so, that could be the.

Nicole [00:31:22]: Case, which I think that there is truth to that. But I also think at the same time, people are their own people and they only want to change if they want to change. And so, yes, I think that if you come from this place, you attract those things. I do believe that. But I also think if you've already made a decision, like you're in a marriage and maybe you were in a different place and so you attracted something different and now you're in a better place, that doesn't necessarily mean that your partner will just change.

John [00:31:56]: No, it doesn't.

Nicole [00:31:56]: And so, like, I think that's the balance, I guess, is what I'm trying to say is that yes, everything you're saying is true, that it's like, we shouldn't take anything personally. If something's upsetting us, it is something inside of us. But at the same time, you do have to look at the situation and realize, like, do I need to have a boundary or do I need to be like, we need to pause this conversation until you can speak respectfully and we can actually get to the bottom of this, or something like that. Or if you do need to end the relationship because it is abusive and things aren't changing even if you've made changes. So, like, I think that two things can be right at the same time because I think a lot of people get stuck, like, they're stuck in operating in the normal way, which is yelling and all this stuff and justifying it. But also people can get stuck in, they're just loving somebody no matter what, and they're just being abused.

John [00:32:56]: But that's where also it comes from, is really thinking about, you know, does this response come from a place of love? Because a lot of people in that situation think that they're loving, but they're not. Because what's happening is it's not coming from a place of, like, their response isn't coming from a place of love. It's coming from a place of being scared.

Nicole [00:33:21]: Well, can I guess. Can you give some examples? Because I know you understand this.

John [00:33:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:26]: But I think you need to explain it for people who don't understand it. I don't know what that means.

John [00:33:34]: There you go.

Nicole [00:33:34]: See, people don't know what it means.

John [00:33:35]: They don't know what it means.

Nicole [00:33:38]: They don't know.

John [00:33:40]: I would say, like. So even, like a lot of people take pride, I mean, to abstract it even further, right. In thinking that they're very loving people.

Nicole [00:33:53]: Right.

John [00:33:55]: But. But it's like acting in a loving way and being loving are not the same thing. Right. Because it's where it comes from. Like, where's the motive? And so that's why, like, the response of like, you know, is it. Are you responding from a place of love or is it coming from a different. Different things. So I'm trying to think of an exact example. It's kind of hard to put it on an exact example. Like.

Nicole [00:34:29]: Well, I think any example, because I think that the level that you're talking about really high. So there needs to be explained.

John [00:34:37]: Let's give an example with. With. With like, parenting a child, right? So someone could. Could talk to the child in a way. Like, the child could piss them off. Right. And they could be like, oh, honey, it's okay. Like, and they could act in a way that's like, I love you, but that's not. It's not coming from a place of love. Right. Because underneath there, that mask is anger, hurt, frustration. Right. So it's not authentic. And so their response, even though they're like. They say they're being a loving person, they're not actually being loving. They're just saying the right words. Right. And we can all feel that when that. When that happens, when someone responds that way. And so, like, actually looking at it and saying, okay, is this response coming from a place of love is different because it might be the same exact words, it might even be the same things, but it's an internal thing of where it's coming from as opposed to the external thing. And so that's where a lot of those situations, like you said, even perhaps an abusive situation or something, and someone thinks that they're loving this person. It's not coming from a place of love be. It's coming from a place of scarcity, of like, of their own insecurity. Right. Like, even that their outward actions are like, oh, I just keep on loving them. No, you're not actually loving them. It's actually more of a selfish motive, like, because love is pure and it's an internal thing that, like, you have to choose, like, where does this response come from? And if you're choosing that response to come from a place of love, then that is something that only you know. But. Yeah, that's the difference is that it's hard to. You can't see it externally. You can feel it externally, but internally, it's a choice.

Nicole [00:36:57]: Yeah. I think that this is a very hot, like, the highest level.

John [00:37:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:02]: And I don't want people to be tripped up on this. Like, I understand what you're saying, but I think that people who are still at this lower level where they're yelling at each other, they can't even comprehend, like, what you're saying. Like, they might be able to now more. Because you explained it.

John [00:37:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:19]: And yes, what you're saying is true.

John [00:37:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:23]: But I just want everyone to Know, that's watching this. That. That is like the highest level.

John [00:37:29]: But again, like what we talked about with the running, the marathon and the, you know, it's like, that should be the standard.

Nicole [00:37:35]: Right. And I do agree that should be what you're aiming for.

John [00:37:39]: So if it's like that high level is like, if you. If you say, oh, that's too high of a level.

Nicole [00:37:48]: Then.

John [00:37:48]: Yeah, then you're allowing yourself to be at that. But if you're like, no, no, this is the level, and then every day you're like, this is the level, then eventually you train and train and train and then that becomes the level. Like, it's not the level at first. Right. You won't be able to meet that level. Right. You know, and in fact, everyone also, you know, will make mistakes at times.

Nicole [00:38:11]: No one will constantly meet that level.

John [00:38:13]: Yeah, yeah. But. But, like, making them mistakes. Yeah. It should still be like the standard. Right, Right. It's like when you start to slip the standard, that's where you start to, you know, when it's like, because you're making mistakes, you're like, okay, then let me lower the standard. That's a problem. It's better to, like, have the standard be way out of sight and to realize that you're a human and you make mistakes, but not change the standard. It's when we change the standard, that's when we have problems in society and in our relationships and everything, you know?

Nicole [00:38:47]: Yeah. They change the standard for sure.

John [00:38:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:49]: It's better to think that it's not normal to have what we're talking about.

John [00:38:53]: Yeah. It's better to recognize that you're falling short of it than to, you know, and even if you continually fall short of it, but then you still have the standard to be the standard.

Nicole [00:39:02]: That's true. Because you have something to walk towards, to move towards.

John [00:39:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:07]: But I just didn't want people to hear that and be like, oh, crap, I can't even not yell at my husband and my kids and whatever. Like. And he's talking about that I have to come from a loving place. I can't just say loving things, like, I have to do it.

John [00:39:22]: But that's the standard. That's what the real standard is.

Nicole [00:39:25]: I do. I agree with that. But I'm just. I need to connect the dots because you're talking about this higher level. And to be honest, like we already said, our standard has already been at a higher level.

John [00:39:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:39]: And, like, that is the higher level. But we've been operating at a higher level. But I've been at the lower level as well, too. And if someone then just told me, oh, just love everyone. And you have to actually love them and not just say, oh, I love you. You have to, like, show it. I would have been like, f you, dude. Like, you know, in that state.

John [00:39:58]: But here's the thing. As long as you fight that, then you'll never, ever make progress.

Nicole [00:40:05]: Which I agree.

John [00:40:06]: It's not even that, like, you won't even. It's like, let's say that that standard of, like, you. You can't even say the right words. But you have to mean the right words. Let's say that that's a hundred, and you're at, like, 10, and you're like, I just want to get to 30. Well, you have to accept what's being said at 100 others. You won't even make it to 30. Like, it's not even to get you to 100. That takes even more than that. But you can't get to 30 if you can't accept 100. If you can't say in your mind, oh, no, that's how it should be. Like, I don't even have an excuse to. Like, I shouldn't even be saying the right words. They need to come from the right place. If you allow yourself to make any kind of justification of the thing which is reducing the standard, then you won't even get to 30.

Nicole [00:40:56]: I agree with what you're saying. I'm just trying to highlight all the things that the people who need to hear this message most might disagree with or might argue.

John [00:41:04]: Well, that's why it's good that we're, you know, having the conversation.

Nicole [00:41:08]: But I agree with you. I think it is hard to. If people have never seen people operate this way. I do think that it's not impossible because even I didn't really see people operate the way that you and I operate. So it is still possible, even not seeing it. But you have to believe it. Like you said, you have to believe that that's possible. Even if you're down here, you have to believe that this is possible. And the more you climb up the ladder, the more you do believe that it's possible, and the more better you feel and the more you want to get to that level of 100.

John [00:41:44]: Yeah. Because if you tell yourself, if you're like, okay, well, that's kind of crazy. Like, I just need to just say the right words. I'm having trouble controlling my anger and I say the wrong words. Like, if I could just say the Right words. I'd be, okay, just take it a little bit further and be like, okay, I need to say the right words and come from the right place. Because that will help you to get to the place of saying the right words. You know what I'm saying? It's just the same thing as, like I said when I was running three miles and I'd be like, oh my God, 26.2 miles a marathon. That's insane. No one can do that. I can't do that. It's like, well, I had to say, no, I have to do that. Because in my head, even when I was training, I would run and go on long runs. Even when I was. There was a point in my head where I said, no, I have to do that. I have to run 26.2 miles. And when I said, I have to do it, you made it, then I did it.

Nicole [00:42:42]: Yeah, you figured it out.

John [00:42:43]: But the littlest slack I ever gave myself on saying that I don't have to do that, that could even come close. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:42:52]: Yeah, that's true.

John [00:42:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:53]: But that's why I think this. It sounds like you also think this is the most important thing for 2026. But I mean, I thought we would maybe get to some more. But honestly I do.

John [00:43:03]: This is really the all encompassing thing.

Nicole [00:43:05]: Yeah. Because it again is like the foundation that fixes so many things. Because if you can't even have a communication with your partner or whoever without it turning hostile, then you're not going to communicate. Then you're going to sweep things under the rug and then you're going to trip over the huge mountain of crap under your rug and that might lead to divorce or who knows? Like, you know, so it's just so important and I think people don't take it seriously enough. Like, I think people think we're probably a little like strict or weird or whatever they want to call it for talking about not yelling at each other and not calling people names or each other names or joking harshly with each other. But I do think that that is one of the core foundations to having a relationship like we have. And it's a non negotiable, like, yeah, there is no, there is no doing that. Like, if someone was like, oh, John's being a douche or something, I'd be like, I'm not gonna call him that.

John [00:44:11]: Like, exactly.

Nicole [00:44:13]: Like, that's not like, yes, I'm frustrated by this thing potentially, but I'm not going to call him a name. I'm not going to, you know, Go to that level, because as soon as you view your partner or anyone, like, in that way, you make them a little less human. You think you can treat them poorly.

John [00:44:32]: Right. Exactly.

Nicole [00:44:32]: You think they deserve it. You think that it's fine.

John [00:44:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:44:36]: And when you start justifying your bad behavior, that's when you just spiral into more and more bad behavior.

John [00:44:41]: Exactly. That's the whole thing. Justifying your bad. Like, at least keep the standard and know where you're falling short. Right. Justifying it is lowering the standard to your current level.

Nicole [00:44:52]: Right.

John [00:44:52]: That's.

Nicole [00:44:53]: And no matter what's a danger, someone does.

John [00:44:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:56]: Like you said the other night, you have to make mistakes. You have to operate from a level that makes you proud of yourself.

John [00:45:03]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:45:03]: Because if it's based on other people, and look, I understand how disappointing it can be to do the right thing and people still not treat you well.

John [00:45:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:14]: But there has never been a time where I want to go back to fighting fire with fire. You know what I mean? Like, I'm. I'm past that point. I'm not going back there because I know that it will not actually make me feel better and it will hurt me.

John [00:45:27]: Right.

Nicole [00:45:28]: Whereas where I'm at now, there's no way I'm going backwards.

John [00:45:32]: Right. Any. Anything that we're doing for other people's validation or approval or love or acceptance or whatever it is, is all performative. And so, like, even if people don't respond the way that we want them to, if we aren't doing things at a performative reason, then doing the thing itself is what is the reward? Right. Like that. And. And so that's how it has to be. And you just have to question. And we all have to question ourselves and say, if doing the thing itself does not feel like the reward, if it feels like I need someone to respond in a certain way, then there's something broken there that we need to work on. It doesn't mean we're a horrible person. It just means that they're. That's. That's an error in us, not an error in the world. You know, and so. But that's. But that helps you in your relationship because, you know, because that's the thing is, like, if even in the relationship, like, we have expectations, we want our partner to respond a certain way, that's on us. That's a problem.

Nicole [00:46:40]: That is true. And I'm not saying it's not. However, I do think that maybe it's not an expectation, but I think, like, acting like how the people closest to you Treating you in a way that hurts you shouldn't matter is not also realistic either. Like, we're still humans and we are still going to have emotions whether we act on them or not. But I think at the end of the day, like what you said, you doing the right thing has to be the thing that matters the most, even over being hurt by somebody. Because here's, here's the thing, is that even if you don't expect somebody, like, even if I don't expect you to say I love you back, if I say I love you, right? If I said I love you and you were like, fuck you, like, right, that still hurts me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, that still makes me sad. It's, yeah, like not responding with, okay, fuck you too.

John [00:47:40]: Right? But the recognition is that you hurt yourself. It's that like, even though, like no one can hurt you, only we can hurt ourselves.

Nicole [00:47:49]: Yeah, but I think it's unrealistic to say that the people we care about most can't hurt us.

John [00:47:54]: But that's the high standard. That is the standard is that the people that we care about most cannot hurt us. No one can hurt us, only we can hurt ourselves. That's the real truth.

Nicole [00:48:05]: Which I, I do understand that.

John [00:48:07]: Which doesn't mean that.

Nicole [00:48:08]: But I don't know anyone who lives that way.

John [00:48:10]: Right. We will fall short of the standard. Of course we will make mistakes. But as long as we hold that standard and don't compromise that standard, then we will be moving in the right direction. It's the moment that we're tempted to lower that standard because it seems so unattainable that that's where we make the mistake. It's, it's just to recognize, hey, this is the standard. It's what it's supposed to be is that nobody should be able to hurt me because I can only hurt myself. And then to realize that we fall short of it and that's fine, but not to lower the standard because we fall short of it. That's the key.

Nicole [00:48:48]: I agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying I don't. Yeah, I just think like, it's hard to talk about getting to that level because no one is really at that level. And I, as humans, in some way, I don't think we'll ever actually attain that if I'm being honest. Because we are community based people and we do care about the people that we care about. And so like I said, you can control how you express your emotions and your feelings, but you can't control whether they come or not. You can eventually, yes, like, lessen it, like, be slower to anger or very, like less likely to be angered or things like that. But there are still. Things will still pop up that we have a choice on how we use those things. But if I'm being honest, and I'm not saying that still shouldn't be the goal, because I do still think it should be the goal because it is perfection. But it shouldn't make you like a perfectionist where you beat yourself up if you don't reach it. But I also think that I don't know anyone that's actually reached that goal.

John [00:49:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:59]: And I don't know if humanly we can.

John [00:50:03]: Right. But it doesn't change the standard.

Nicole [00:50:05]: No. And I'm not saying that it's not because I agree with you that if you shoot for the moon, you'll land amongst the stars, you'll be better than you were. But. And that you shouldn't even try to do that. But at the same time, I don't want people to beat themselves up trying to go for trying to perfection when I don't know anyone that's perfect like.

John [00:50:23]: That, which is not meant to beat yourself up, but when you recognize the truth that you can only hurt yourself and no one has ever hurt you, ever in your entire life, you've only hurt yourself, then that helps you.

Nicole [00:50:37]: But here's the thing with that, without going on a tangent, what about people who've been physically abused?

John [00:50:42]: Look, even if someone, like, someone can. Can cause you pain for sure, right? Like your, your body is. Is capable. Someone can cause you to experience pain.

Nicole [00:50:56]: But we cause our suffering, right? Yes.

John [00:50:59]: So that's, that's the thing. So, so no one can really harm you. Like so.

Nicole [00:51:03]: But I think that's actually the answer is what you just said is that.

John [00:51:07]: I think, like, take my arm, take my leg, cripple me. Have you harmed me? No, you haven't harmed me unless I allow my. I have to harm myself.

Nicole [00:51:18]: But I think what you just said is actually what I was talking about, is that if I said I loved you and you said fuck you, that is painful. But if I internalize that and go on a tangent in my mind, then I'm harming myself because I'm causing the suffering.

John [00:51:37]: It's painful at one level, but it's also not even painful at another level because it's like if I say I love you and you say fuck you, it's painful if I take it personally, but it's not painful. If I say, wow, this is coming from a. There's something wrong here. There's some ignorance that's happening here. Like a lack of awareness on your part that has nothing to do with me.

Nicole [00:52:07]: But then do you just tolerate it?

John [00:52:09]: No. You don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that. I mean, if someone's operating from that lower level of consciousness, do you really want to be in a relationship with them? It's not a hateful or harmful thing. It's just a thing where it's not the choice that you would make. It's not going to be helpful for you or for them. And so I make that choice out of love to say that. No, we're going to have to part ways.

Nicole [00:52:31]: I agree. I think you're saying everything that I said earlier.

John [00:52:34]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:52:35]: But I think the way you're describing it is just very simplified because you understand it. And so I just wanted to make sure we fully uncovered this because.

John [00:52:46]: Which is why we're people listening to this, which is why we're such a good team.

Nicole [00:52:49]: On the same wavelength as you. So.

John [00:52:52]: Well, that's why we're such a good team.

Nicole [00:52:53]: I'm glad we came full circle here.

John [00:52:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:52:55]: But I think we covered everything. I can't think of anything else.

John [00:52:59]: We are the best habits for 2026. And it's just one. But it's true. But it is. It all does come down to that.

Nicole [00:53:08]: One encompasses multiple things. I think the habit of not yelling and not being mean. Because maybe some people do that with some people and they don't. Like, maybe some people yell at their kids, but they're mean to their husband. Or maybe they're mean to their kids and they joke meanly with their husbands or their friends or something.

John [00:53:25]: But it's about having that stance and so have the high standard of what it actually is. Like, understand the reality and know that you fall short of it and that's okay right now. But it's your standard that, like, you're not going to allow yourself to not hold up to it. You know, and then once you do that, then it changes everything. So. Yeah. Even though it seems unattainable.

Nicole [00:53:50]: I don't. Do, you know someone that's attained it.

John [00:53:53]: Of the level of, like, not yelling at each other and.

Nicole [00:53:56]: No. Like the highest level.

John [00:53:57]: Oh, I mean, no. Yeah. But, you know. But it doesn't change the standard of it. So. No, but. But the more that you recognize it and meditate on it and think about how true that is. Because everything is like a level of awareness, then the closer you would get, you know?

Nicole [00:54:14]: Yeah, I agree with you.

John [00:54:16]: Right. Yeah. So good. All right. Do we have anything for us?

Nicole [00:54:24]: I don't know.

John [00:54:25]: I don't think we do. Right.

Nicole [00:54:27]: I can't think of anything.

John [00:54:28]: Like, we've been on some trips and.

Nicole [00:54:31]: Don't jinx us, John, every time you say this.

John [00:54:34]: We've been through some journeys with parenting and stuff, which we'll talk about in the next. Like, we'll do an episode on it, but we've been a united front, so. Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:49]: I don't know how parents are doing it. Not on a united front, but I know it happens.

John [00:54:53]: It'll tear you apart. Yeah. So.

Nicole [00:54:55]: All right, well, I think that's it.

John [00:54:56]: All right, well, give us a. Follow a.

Nicole [00:55:00]: Like subscribe.

John [00:55:01]: Yeah, do the, like, subscribe thing and sign up for. If you have a question for us, you can email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com but if you want to go to the website, it's better than PerfectPod. Com.

Nicole [00:55:15]: Think Pod. Like, love is blind.

John [00:55:17]: Yeah. So you can get everything there. Subscribe and we'll see you next time.

Nicole [00:55:24]: We find our way.