John [00:00:00]: Maybe that's also what people are afraid of and why they're trying to, like, poke at Taylor Swift right now is that they're afraid that she's going to, like, go down this trad white pipeline and drop off the face of the earth, and then what are they going to do without Taylor Swift's music? If you're a fan of hers, you should support her life decisions. Like, it'd be different if she liked a baby or something. Like, leave her alone.

Nicole [00:00:21]: Leave Taylor alone.

John [00:00:23]: Yeah, exactly. Do I need to cry and, like, hide under a sheet or something and be like, leave Taylor Swift alone?

Nicole [00:00:29]: No, but I think. I mean, it just shows that ultimately we're still looking for the same thing. So it doesn't matter if you're a celebrity or whoever. You know, beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

John [00:01:02]: But the real question is, is what does Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce have a better than perfect relationship?

Nicole [00:01:10]: There we go. We got some celebrity drama for this. This week here.

John [00:01:15]: So we don't know the full scoop.

Nicole [00:01:17]: Yeah. Okay. I was gonna say, I don't know who Taylor Swift or whatever his name is. No.

John [00:01:22]: You've at least heard Taylor Swift, and

Nicole [00:01:24]: I saw that game show. What's the game show?

John [00:01:26]: Oh, yeah. Are you smarter than a celebrity? I've been making John watch that.

Nicole [00:01:31]: Yeah.

John [00:01:31]: And he is the host of that. But, yeah. So I don't know a ton about their relationship, obviously, except that, like, it's Taylor Swift and he's a. He's a football player. Like, I feel like I knew more about both of them. Like.

Nicole [00:01:47]: Yeah.

John [00:01:48]: Early 2000s, 2010.

Nicole [00:01:51]: Yeah.

John [00:01:52]: And, like, I kind of dropped off because Taylor Swift, you know, like, she's been making music for a long time. And honestly, I most listened to her music back then.

Nicole [00:02:02]: Yeah.

John [00:02:02]: And then also we were kind of talking about this. Like, Travis Kelsey had this show. I think it was on mtv. It was like a dating show. I forget what it was called, but it was basically like, the Bachelor. But he was the Bachelor, but it was on mtv. And so all these girls came and, like, tried to date him.

Nicole [00:02:20]: Right.

John [00:02:21]: And so, like, having the knowledge of Taylor Swift back then and him back then.

Nicole [00:02:27]: Right.

John [00:02:28]: I definitely would not put the two together. Like, they just don't seem like they go together. However.

Nicole [00:02:37]: Yeah.

John [00:02:37]: Now, like, even when they first got together, I remember thinking, like, this is odd.

Nicole [00:02:44]: Yeah. Okay.

John [00:02:45]: But at the same time, people are

Nicole [00:02:46]: calling it a PR stunt. Right? That's.

John [00:02:48]: I have heard that at times, but. And I guess it's. I wouldn't say that I feel like it's totally not an option.

Nicole [00:02:58]: Right.

John [00:02:59]: Because, like, besides just the things that pop up, like, when they post about each other or something, I don't know how their relationship is. I mean, like, I have seen where she would go to his, like, football games, and he, I think, was in what, at least one of her shows. Like, he came on stage. So, like, they're supporting each other.

Nicole [00:03:21]: Yeah.

John [00:03:21]: That's good.

Nicole [00:03:22]: Yeah.

John [00:03:23]: But I do remember, I think, hearing that people thought that it was like, a PR stunt from, like, the NFL to get, like, girls between that age to watch football. Yeah, I do remember hearing that, but which I'm sure that did actually work because there were, like, tons of shirts made that were like, you know, I'm here to watch Taylor Swift's boyfriend or something. So I'm not saying that it's not maybe somewhat a PR stunt.

Nicole [00:03:50]: Yeah.

John [00:03:51]: Because also still. There's still something about them that, like, just in my mind of how I knew them earlier.

Nicole [00:03:59]: Yeah.

John [00:03:59]: They don't mesh as well as I feel like everyone's talking about. But at the same time, I also think, like, they're both older now. Like, that obviously had to be when they were in, like, their early 20s. So they're, like, they're mid-30s now, so maybe things are different. And I know, like, one of the things that we were, like, kind of discussing is, like, people are upset that, like, she's going more towards, like, a traditional wife sort of vibe.

Nicole [00:04:32]: Right. From a feminist to. Because a lot of her songs about her exploitation. I don't know a lot of her songs, but. But I think that early in her career, she. Her songs were a little bit more on the. What would say, a conservative side. And then mid. Like, mid career, they became more feminist after the Exes and, like, women power. And then. And now she's kind of becoming more of a traditional wife type of.

John [00:05:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:04]: Is that right? I mean, I don't know. You tell me if I'm right.

John [00:05:06]: So I don't know.

Nicole [00:05:09]: Yeah.

John [00:05:10]: Like, I don't know enough about that to say for sure, because I know, like, in the very, very beginning, it was very, like, wholesome and, like, more. Back when she was, like, classified as country.

Nicole [00:05:23]: Yeah, exactly.

John [00:05:24]: It was like. But she was also younger. She was also, like, a teenager. And so it was more that, like, it wasn't.

Nicole [00:05:32]: It wasn't a feminist type of vibe. No, it's more of what, like the ones I've heard recently were. Well, actually on the man hating side.

John [00:05:41]: Supposedly her newest stuff is about, like starting a family and a white picket fence and things like that.

Nicole [00:05:47]: Yeah. So, like, she's going through a life journey.

John [00:05:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:51]: And she's figuring out what she doesn't want because she's dated a lot of people, right?

John [00:05:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:57]: High profile people and a lot of

John [00:05:58]: like, I feel like musicians and people along those lines that are a little bit more on the creative side. Like her.

Nicole [00:06:06]: Yeah.

John [00:06:07]: Which I think is also where the disconnect with him comes in because he's more like football.

Nicole [00:06:12]: Sports, yeah, sure.

John [00:06:13]: Masculine, you know, vibe, which. Not that the other people weren't, but they were definitely more like creative guys. And so that's also too where I feel like the shell shock of like, oh, she's dating a jock now. Like, which, I mean, if you go way back then to one of her songs, she's like, she wears short skirts, I wear T shirts. And it's like, you know, back about like high school. Like, yeah, yeah, she's your captain and I'm in the bleachers. It's like, maybe she's like that all along. And then she went through a phase, which most women do.

Nicole [00:06:49]: She got heartbroken a couple of times. She's like, fuck men like you. Yeah. Pro feminism.

John [00:06:54]: And now she takes the jock again.

Nicole [00:06:57]: To me, that explanation makes the most sense. And also, like, now she's getting older. Right. Because she's 34, 35 and he's 35 or whatever. I think that was the age. And, you know, that's the biological clock starts to tick at that point. Like, if she wants to have kids and wants to have a family, she doesn't have a large amount of time to do that. And then also, like, who's going to give it to you? Like some other rock star type of vagabond. Vega. Vagabond. Vagabond, Vagabond, vagabond, vagabond, vagabond, vagabond type of guy or like a more, you know, like one country football potato type of man. Yeah, like, that's more of a traditional masculine man, you know, And I think it also just kind of brings out like, you know, a lot of people want Taylor Swift to be what they want her to be.

John [00:07:47]: Yeah, right.

Nicole [00:07:48]: Obviously, like, that's what, hey, whenever you have fans, people want you to be the. You Know, as. As, you know, you know, I'm nowhere, not nowhere, an A list celebrity. But I mean, I had a pretty big following and bulldog mindset. And man, when I went off of the market and wasn't a player anymore, people were upset. They're like, that's not John. That's not him. He can't get married. He can't do this. This girl must be a. Whatever, you know, they're upset. Yeah. Because they, because they want me to be the thing that, you know, that. That they know me as.

John [00:08:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:22]: And I can't be anything different. It is the same thing. Like, Taylor Swift has her swifties. They want her to be this.

John [00:08:28]: You know, that they're swifties, that they

Nicole [00:08:30]: want her to be this feminist, like, vision of feminist female empowerment. Right. And all this, these things.

John [00:08:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:37]: So if she goes and now she marries a football guy and wants to be a wife, then that's throws them into a tailspin.

John [00:08:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:47]: But. But in reality, like, that's what most women really want deep down, even if they don't understand it themselves. And maybe they have to find that and figure out, okay, that is, I actually do want a masculine man, and I want to be able to be a woman and be a wife and be a mother and, and, and like, be feminine and I don't have to be in charge and be powerful and all that. Like, I'm capable of it. Obviously, like, she's super, you know, successful.

John [00:09:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:16]: For way more successful than most men will ever dream to be in their life. But that is that really fulfilling or at the deepest level. So. So to me, it's like, yeah, maybe it's a publicity stunt, but maybe it's just like, this is finally her coming to this point of saying, okay, this is what I really want in life. And I don't even care if people are pissed off or not. Like, I want this kind of life.

John [00:09:40]: But it begs the question, do you think she settled because you said her biological clock is ticking? Do you think she settled? Like, because. I don't know, like, again, we don't know their full relationship. So it's really hard because, like, we only see what's in the media. But besides, like, them supporting each other in their things, which is good. That's definitely a good sign.

Nicole [00:10:06]: Yeah,

John [00:10:08]: I just, when I look at them, I just don't know if it looks like their relationship has substance. Does that make sense?

Nicole [00:10:16]: Like, I think I get what you're saying, like, again, I don't know a huge amount, but in this situation. But it Seems like the intellectual capabilities are not matching.

John [00:10:27]: Aligned quite as much.

Nicole [00:10:28]: Which, which again, it's not. I don't know. It's hard. It's always hard when you see someone on tv. I mean, Taylor Swift is obviously quite intellectual, right? Because she writes her. All of her own stuff. She has a notebook where she writes all of her songs. Like most, most people at her level have writers who write their songs. Yeah, right. Or they. The producer purchases the songs from a writer who writes the love songs and writes the things. She writes her own stuff.

John [00:10:58]: Well, and she had a producer, right, Scooter Braun, who like took all her music, her older music, and she re recorded her own versions of them so that he wouldn't get the rights because he wouldn't get it back.

Nicole [00:11:13]: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So she's going above and beyond level of intelligence. Right.

John [00:11:18]: So.

Nicole [00:11:19]: But again, it might be a little bit unfair to judge Travis Kelce.

John [00:11:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:24]: You know.

John [00:11:25]: Yeah, we're not saying he's. But also if you play football, you get hit in the head a lot and so you have a lot of concussions and might not be his fault.

Nicole [00:11:32]: Yeah, yeah, but. But again, it also depends on what is she looking for. Right? Like.

John [00:11:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:37]: Is it.

John [00:11:38]: But I guess that's what she's looking for.

Nicole [00:11:40]: Is he a masculine dude? Yeah, he's like 6, 3, 6, 4, something like that. I mean, he looks like a big, pretty big hunkin, you know, Dude. Right. I saw him on the. Yeah, that show. Right. He seems like he has a decent sense of humor, like, you know, whatever. Again, maybe not. You know, I mean, he, he is hosting the show that used to be called are you smarter than a fifth grader?

John [00:12:02]: But, but, but he did a pretty good job.

Nicole [00:12:06]: But yeah, but he's a masculine dude, right? Like, he seemed like a cool dude, so maybe that's what. What she wants, you know, so.

John [00:12:12]: But I guess the thing is, like, he's definitely different than her other exes. And I think that's where people think it's like a PR stunt or like it also kind of gives. Are you just trying to date a different type of guy? Because like.

Nicole [00:12:28]: But when a woman like meets a masculine man for the first time and actually has a real relationship with him, she changes a lot, right? Yeah, like so.

John [00:12:38]: Yeah, that's true.

Nicole [00:12:38]: You know, so maybe it is like just that, okay, this is a dude that actually like handles stuff and it's

John [00:12:45]: masculine and she can relax for once. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, maybe you're right. And then maybe that's too why she's leaning more traditional again because she feels safe and feels able to be feminine.

Nicole [00:12:57]: She's also smart, you know, like to see where the wind is blowing. And the wind of relationships is blowing to better than perfect. To modern, traditional relationship. Exactly. It is blown to modern, traditional relationships, though. Like, it is blowing more towards traditional. Getting back to just like we said in the last episode about the end of the, the situationships.

John [00:13:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:21]: It's because people want to actually have something and build something. They're tired of all of this stuff. It's like the freedom and security. They want security. They want to have the man be the man, the woman be the woman. Right. You know, or if you're, you know, if you're in a gay relationship, a masculine pole. And I mean, I, I feel like the, the, the gay community understands it better than, you know, they're not offended by. Because they get it. They're like, okay, yeah, you gotta have a dominant and a sub. Like, you gotta have a top and a bottom. Right. Like, they, they have the terminology for it because they understand how important that dynamic is in a relationship. So it doesn't even matter if you're, if you're gay or straight. It's a matter of, like, having that polarity. And for most people, most people are straight. It's gonna be a man being masculine and a woman being feminine, a man being dominant, a woman being submissive. Like, those are the ways that, that work. And it's not just from a biological standpoint. It a. Like a, A, A polarity standpoint of like, laws of the universe, like how things attract.

John [00:14:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:24]: So.

John [00:14:25]: Well, and I feel like it is somewhat biological in the sense of, like, being feminine is more natural feeling to women and being masculine is more natural feeling to men. But no, you're a thousand percent right. It doesn't have to be. It's a polarity. It's not like.

Nicole [00:14:39]: Right.

John [00:14:39]: The cookie cutter of like, man and woman, masculine and feminine sort of thing. Because I want that polarity because I

Nicole [00:14:45]: think even sometimes people like, oh, well, it's just old f. Like we're not religious. We're not coming from a religious standpoint. Right. You know, even though our, our system, our values and relationship may. May move more towards the conservative direction. Right. I always say libertarian, but like, it's, it's not coming from that. And it, and it's not like, oh, has to be heterosexual couples. Like, it's, it's more of like, how does the dynamic of the relationship work, which is the masculine and the feminine and that you have to have that. And so, but, but I think that's where, you know, that's where, where things are going. Like I said, I think she's smart enough to know that like, okay, right now, yeah, maybe more of her fan base is, is liking the feminist stuff, but I think she can kind of see also that the direction is shifting that way and she's going to need to start creating music and content that appeals to that on. So she's going to get left behind because she's made it a long time. I mean, her career has been really right. She's been like number one in terms of, I think for live performance. Like her tickets go for more than any other live performers tickets. I, I, I think I know that amount.

John [00:15:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:00]: You know, and so it's because she's good at reading the, like, because she's shifted multiple times.

John [00:16:05]: Yeah. That's why it's the Eras tour. It's different eras of her music.

Nicole [00:16:09]: Yeah.

John [00:16:10]: Yeah. Well, speaking along, like heterosexual and homosexual, what about the allegations that she's a lesbian and he's just a beard cover up a lavender marriage? Well, no, I think. Does that mean that he's also Gay marriage?

Nicole [00:16:29]: I think that's what it means.

John [00:16:30]: But okay, well, that she, but he's

Nicole [00:16:32]: the COVID He's a beard.

John [00:16:33]: Yeah. They call it a beard.

Nicole [00:16:36]: Yeah.

John [00:16:36]: Okay. Like, so I don't get that vibe from her, like she's a girl's girl, like from her music before. But to me, it just, I don't, I don't feel like she comes across like that she's attracted to women. I think that she is a girl's girl, like she's cares about women.

Nicole [00:16:59]: I feel like also, again, biologically, we know from evolutionary biology that women are more flexible in their sexuality that they could be attracted like women by default. A lot of women are bisexual. Like, just they can be turned on by men or women. Right. Men are not that way in general. Right. So that's just from evolutionary biology. Again, it doesn't mean that every woman is like that or that there's also like a conditioning. It's just like from a biological perspective. Right. So in the way that the idea they do this test is that they have, they have these sensors that can detect moisture. Right. And they hook it up to the appropriate parts and then they show men and women, because men and women have the same, you know, men also have a moisture production when they're aroused. Okay.

John [00:17:55]: I love your science.

Nicole [00:17:56]: I'm trying to keep, I mean, I could give this, but I'M trying to keep it, keep it as PG as we can, right? So, so anyway, so they hook up the appropriate parts, right? And then they show them pornographic images. They show them images of naked men, naked women, people having sex, animals having sex. And okay, this is the thing that's going to throw you. So for men that are, say they're straight, the, the images of women and humans having sex are the things that turned them on.

John [00:18:31]: Images of women and humans, of women

Nicole [00:18:34]: having sex and humans having sex. Oh, are the things that turn on like at a physical level, not necessarily at a mental level, right? A biological male who, who claims to be heterosexual. When they test it on the gay man, it's what you would expect. It's, it's other men, it's, it's, it's humans having sex is gay sex, right? When they test it on a woman, all the things work. Animals.

John [00:19:04]: I mean, I guess that's why the books are the way that they are, right?

Nicole [00:19:08]: Animals, humans. That is gay, whatever, Terrifying sexuality again. Now they also then talk to these people and they're like, were you turned on or not? Now the women who are heterosexual say, oh yeah, I was turned on by the humans having sex and by the hot guys, right? So, and then obviously they asked the men and you know, similar, like what you would expect, right? So at a mental level, women aren't lying about it. They're not like seeing these. I mean, there were some that were. Had more bisexual, like at a mental level, but at a physical arousal level, subconscious women were turned on by any kind of sex at all.

John [00:19:53]: Like, so you would think that men would be that way.

Nicole [00:19:56]: You would think so. But men have a specific. They're attracted to men or they're attracted to women generally, right? It's very rare for men to be actually bisexual. It's, it's, it's usually some other kind of thing that's going on there. So what you can see, I mean, you see it with gay men, right? How they act like you can kind of. You don't get the impression that they would be attracted to women too. You know, like, that's in general, right? Whereas women who are bisexual or who are lesbian, many times it's not as, it's not as clear, right? It could be. So all that to say that I think a large portion or large part of when a woman is super feminist, right? You kind of see this where it's almost like she convinces herself that men suck and that maybe I should date women, right? It's like, again, I'm not saying that it's. That there's no biological component at all to this or preferences or things like that. But I am saying that the more that a woman is like, kind of has a man hating type of mindset, the more that she's like, okay, well, I could, like, I might have preferred sexually mental, but I could also go with women because they're better companions anyway. They're better in all these areas. So I can, I can be sexually turned on by a woman too, whereas a man. That doesn't happen. So I think I'm trying to think where I rabbit trail.

John [00:21:25]: I don't know. This was.

Nicole [00:21:27]: Oh, it was, it was the, the Taylor Swift thing. So what I'm saying is that a lot of people, feminist, a lot of people probably thought like, and she may have even been, you know, been somewhat bisexual in that way because of that whole idea, like, if you're at a point in, in your life, a lot of women, when they're at a point in life where they're man hating, where they're whatever, for whatever reason and are very much on the phone there, that they start to say things like, oh, well, I should date women, right? Because.

John [00:21:59]: But I've never even heard her say those things that I'm like, is there something that she's said or done?

Nicole [00:22:05]: People are inferring it by the lyrics that like, she fits that, that group of, you know, that she appears like the same as, as women who might be bisexual or lesbian, that maybe that's what she really is and they're wanting her to belong to their group. You see what I'm saying?

John [00:22:27]: That makes more sense.

Nicole [00:22:28]: They're projecting it onto her.

John [00:22:29]: I mean, I've heard her stuff and I've never once, like, was like, maybe she likes women. Like, I don't know. That just hasn't crossed my mind. But when you hear, come across that

Nicole [00:22:40]: way, when you hear lyrics that are super man hating from like, what. There's like some of her, like, I don't, I don't know any songs. So.

John [00:22:51]: But then how are you saying they're Superman hating? Because, like, do you know.

Nicole [00:22:54]: Because I've heard the, I've heard the songs right? When we're, when we're in the car or something. Like, I've heard the, the lyrics.

John [00:23:02]: Yeah. I'm trying to just. I can't.

Nicole [00:23:03]: I've heard some of the ones that like, Sophia likes a lot. Right. And I'm like, I don't know if I like this song so much.

John [00:23:10]: From Taylor Swift.

Nicole [00:23:11]: Yeah, from Taylor Swift. That's like.

John [00:23:14]: Yeah, I'm just saying that I. Yeah, I can't think of any man hating ones, honestly.

Nicole [00:23:20]: Yeah. Maybe it's more just like on the. On the very feminist side of it. And then I'm interpreting that way perhaps.

John [00:23:29]: But I just thought you had stuff in your mind because you kept bringing it up. And I'm like, over here thinking. I'm like, what?

Nicole [00:23:35]: No, I'd have to research hating and see what it is. But. But I think.

John [00:23:40]: Well, maybe there's one where she's like, I never trust a narcissist, but they love me. But that's not like man hating. That's like talking about narcissists.

Nicole [00:23:48]: I know there was some. There was. I. I can't think of it.

John [00:23:52]: But, you know, maybe there are some that are a little bit more. That are more.

Nicole [00:23:56]: They're more.

John [00:23:56]: But they're still not like, of lyrics.

Nicole [00:23:58]: Right.

John [00:23:59]: As bad as. I think some other.

Nicole [00:24:01]: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, but I think that it either. I think some people maybe grouped her in and said, oh, well, she must be part of our club. And now they're feeling a little betrayed because they're like, well, wait a minute.

John [00:24:14]: I thought this is a man.

Nicole [00:24:15]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

John [00:24:16]: I thought we didn't like an American man.

Nicole [00:24:18]: Exactly. I didn't. I thought we didn't like men. And now you're, like, dating a man. Like a football player, man. Like football pro maga. Like, what? Yeah, like, that's. I think that's what. Where the outrage is coming from.

John [00:24:30]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, like you said, like, people go through so many different stages of life, and she's obviously gone through so many different stages, and I think it's just kind of like, even me being like, they don't seem like they go together. Like, I don't know her. Like, maybe she's always like that.

Nicole [00:24:50]: Yeah.

John [00:24:51]: Sort of guy. But she was dating other guys that she thought she should be more attracted to. Like, we don't really know. So, like, it's not even fair for us to be, like, judging. I'm trying not to, like, judge. I'm just giving my honest, like, opinion about how it outwardly appears. But, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with her making this choice. And if she's happy and, I mean, she's writing songs about it, she seems like she's happy. Yeah. Then that's all that matters. I think people, too. Maybe it is exactly like you said that people are assuming these things. Like, especially, like, you Know, really feminist people, they're like, oh, she's not a feminist anymore. Because I also saw, like, at one point, people were saying that Taylor Swift's like, maga or something.

Nicole [00:25:41]: Yeah.

John [00:25:42]: Now. And, like, are they just saying that because she's dating, like, a football player? Like.

Nicole [00:25:47]: Right.

John [00:25:48]: You know what I mean? Like, people are kind of just. You can't even really trust what. What Even information that we know because it's coming from media or other people.

Nicole [00:25:58]: Yeah, exactly. You can't really.

John [00:25:59]: You know, like, we're never gonna.

Nicole [00:26:00]: All I know is everyone. Everyone. Everyone was on Epstein island all the. With your maga, your whatever liberal you're on. Your. All your people were there. My people, your people, everyone's people. They all were on that damn island. So that's. It's not good.

John [00:26:19]: Yeah, well, we're not getting into that.

Nicole [00:26:21]: No, I'm just saying, like, it's. It's sort of. It's almost like. I do feel like just as a little sidetrack, it's sort of like if you're really into politics and you just love to, like, be on your side and the other. It's like football. Like, it's the same thing. It's like teams. Right. Like, that's how politics is, is teams. Right. And then. And now you found out, like, the Epstein kind of ruins the whole thing for you because you're like, damn. Like, they're all up. Like, they're all. Were involved with this. So now you can't really root for anyone. So. So just get back to your normal life then. And, like, actually, you know, people live their life. Exactly. I think it's a good thing. It should. I mean, it's not. It's not going to actually get rid of the thing, but, like, yeah, whoever you are, like, whatever you're rooting for, they were on the island, so there you go.

John [00:27:14]: Yeah, well, we're not gonna get into politics, but. Yeah, like. Because that's a whole different can of worms. No, no, but I'm just saying that I feel like people are judging her more harshly, like you said, because she's going against, like, her typical. But it's like at the same time, we do things out of our typical all the time, and we don't have people around to judge us like they do. So if they're happy, this is their choice. It doesn't matter if they're in a real relationship, a fake relationship or whatever. It's none of our business. Yeah, but, you know, like I said, going back a lot of her first Stuff was very, like, wholesome. And, you know, she probably grew up that way. And, like, if you think about country music, which is where she started.

Nicole [00:28:00]: Yeah. Country is. This definitely is a super conservative. Yeah.

John [00:28:04]: And it's more like masculine, feminine, you know, sort of vibe, traditional vibe. And so, you know, if that's how she broke into this, then she probably does have some parts of her that wants that traditional lifestyle.

Nicole [00:28:17]: Right.

John [00:28:18]: In some way. She'll never have actually a traditional lifestyle because she's so successful. Like, I'm sure she makes more money than he does.

Nicole [00:28:25]: Yeah.

John [00:28:26]: But it's like. But also, at this point, is she still going to make music? She might take a break like Hilary Duff did. Hilary Duff's coming back. You know, Hilary Duff is not the same as Taylor Swift because Hilary Duff didn't have as much, like, albums and things like that in between. But I mean, like you said, Taylor Swift's at an age where she probably does want to start a family, if that's something that she wants to do with her life. And so she might go radio silent and not put out music for a while, or she might pull a Rihanna and not put out music anymore until one day, hopefully, Rihanna will be like, hey, here's some music. Because that's what everybody's been waiting for for like, 10 years now, it seems like.

Nicole [00:29:06]: Yeah. That I have no idea about that.

John [00:29:08]: I know. That's why I'm bringing it up. But, you know, and maybe that's also what people are afraid of and why they're trying to, like, poke at Taylor Swift right now, is that they're afraid that she's gonna, like, go down this trad wife pipeline.

Nicole [00:29:23]: Yeah.

John [00:29:24]: And drop off the face of the earth and then what are they gonna do without Taylor Swift?

Nicole [00:29:28]: Yeah.

John [00:29:29]: Music and, you know, like, being a fan of hers, which. It's like, if you're a fan of hers, you should support her life decisions.

Nicole [00:29:36]: Yeah.

John [00:29:37]: That's how I feel about it. It's like, what kind of fan are you? If you, like, she does something and then you're like, that's how. Like, it'd be different if she liked a baby or something. Like, man, why are you smacking babies? Well, that's not the same.

Nicole [00:29:50]: Remember that movie about the one Latin singer who got killed by her fan?

John [00:29:55]: Oh, Selena.

Nicole [00:29:56]: Yeah. Like, that's what fans do. They're just like.

John [00:29:59]: I mean, but look. Well, then maybe if your fan, Taylor Swift, listening to this. Leave her alone. Yeah, exactly. Do I need to cry and, like, hide under a sheet or something and be like, leave Taylor Swift alone.

Nicole [00:30:14]: No, but I think. I mean, like I said, like, it's. It just. It just shows that. That ultimately, like, we're still looking for the same thing, so it doesn't matter if you're a celebrity or whoever, you know, And. And I don't see anything. It's different. Like, we did. We talked a little bit about the Akash situation with his wife, and, like, there was clearly stuff that was, like, messed up there. Right. So it's like, I don't see anything wrong here. I don't know.

John [00:30:41]: She's not disrespecting him, and he's not disrespecting her. They're just supporting each other.

Nicole [00:30:46]: Right. That's why people have such an issue. Well, and too, like, it's just like, there's nothing wrong. Like, give me some dirt to be like, okay, he's saying this or she's this. It's this.

John [00:30:56]: Yeah, well, his brother has a podcast and said that they, like, never fight, which is not a good thing either, but.

Nicole [00:31:04]: Well, yeah, but never.

John [00:31:05]: Maybe they don't think fight. Like, we don't think fight. We wouldn't say a fight.

Nicole [00:31:09]: People would say, we never fight.

John [00:31:11]: Yeah, right.

Nicole [00:31:12]: Because we. We don't really fight fight.

John [00:31:14]: We're not, like, attacking.

Nicole [00:31:15]: We have disagreements and. But that's not infrequent, too, so.

John [00:31:19]: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there was something I was gonna say, but you were talking and I lost it in my brain. What was it? It's gone.

Nicole [00:31:32]: It'll. It'll come. It'll come back to you.

John [00:31:36]: Will it? Oh, okay.

Nicole [00:31:38]: There you go. See?

John [00:31:39]: Thank you. Thank you for manifesting that.

Nicole [00:31:40]: Yeah.

John [00:31:41]: I think, too, part of it is that she's lived such a, like, extravagant career. Like, she's done so much stuff. Like, she is, in a way, like, an artist that, like, no one can duplicate because she's done things that people have not done. Yeah. Yeah, essentially.

Nicole [00:32:00]: Yeah.

John [00:32:00]: And like, even her proposal picture that she posted, and it was like, your English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married. Right. To me, that just made me feel like she's trying to go live a more normal life. Like, yeah, she started out normal, obviously, and then as a teen, she got popular, and she's making all this music, and then she just completely blows up.

Nicole [00:32:23]: Right?

John [00:32:23]: And it makes sense to me that, like, maybe she wants to get back to, like, normal. Like, maybe she wants to, like, move somewhere to, like, Wyoming or something, and then, like, they kind of drop off and they live, like, a normal life. I mean, it'll never be fully normal because at this point, everyone knows who Taylor Swift is. But, and sorry, Taylor Swift, if you're moving to Wyoming. But, but, but people do forget that,

Nicole [00:32:48]: like in five years, like, I mean, not totally totally, but yeah, you know, like, look at Paris Hilton. Right?

John [00:32:53]: Like I say, well, she's, she's doing things. But like, I'm just saying that that might be her next move because also, like, just captioning that just gives like small town vibes to me and like just wanting to live a happy, normal life.

Nicole [00:33:10]: Yeah.

John [00:33:10]: And so that could also be what's happening is that she's lived this crazy life and she's only 35. And so, I mean, if she did retire or like, want to focus on having a family, that makes sense to me.

Nicole [00:33:25]: Well, it also, I think the bigger story here is that it's kind of the proof that feminism ultimately fails for women. Right. Like, because if you think about. I'll tell you why. Because she reached the top of success of boss babe. Right? She highest level of boss babe. You can't get higher level than boss babe. That.

John [00:33:45]: Yeah, like Taylor Swift. Okay, Final boss.

Nicole [00:33:48]: Yeah, Final boss babe. Right. Okay. And she's, and I'm not gonna say that she was like depressed or like unhappy, but she wasn't fulfilled. She was, There was something.

John [00:34:01]: She's missing something. Right.

Nicole [00:34:02]: And so this is what she. So it kind of tells you, like, whatever you're trying to aspire. If you think that following this path of hyper independence and I don't need a man and I don't need, you know, like, and I just need to be a boss babe is going to get you to a point of happiness. Well, Taylor's authority went to the top of it and looked down and was like, nope, this ain't it. And then she's saying, I want something different. So it'll save you a big journey of wasting your time if you already see someone who's already done it and ta da. You know, and, and look at what they're doing now, you know, again. So I think that's a good, just a good lesson to learn when you, when you see someone who's already been down that path and they made it final boss babe level and now.

John [00:34:51]: Well, I think ultimately everybody wants love. And it's like, especially women. I think men do too, but women, it's really no surprise, like, even the women who act like they don't, they do.

Nicole [00:35:04]: Yeah.

John [00:35:04]: And that's also why Taylor Swift dated so many people. Like, she's been looking for Love?

Nicole [00:35:08]: Yeah.

John [00:35:09]: Like, she's been dating people, and like you said, like, no amount of success could fill the void of, like, wanting to share her life with somebody.

Nicole [00:35:17]: Yeah.

John [00:35:18]: And so instead of, like, kidding yourself and being like, I don't need a man, I just need to work harder or whatever, like, be honest with yourself. Like, be honest that you want to find a partner to spend your life with. And, like, that doesn't mean that you have to be a traditional wife, but there should be, like, you said that polarity.

Nicole [00:35:40]: Yeah.

John [00:35:41]: And honestly, I feel like if you found somebody that was masculine, you would feel more safe to be feminine, and then you would also feel better. You wouldn't feel as stressed or, like, you have to handle all the things on your own because that does do something to a woman. Like, we cannot handle stress the same way that men can, because hormonally, we're not on the same playing field as men. Like.

Nicole [00:36:09]: Right.

John [00:36:09]: Men wake up in their days, look the exact same. Like.

Nicole [00:36:13]: Yeah.

John [00:36:13]: The way that their hormones are.

Nicole [00:36:15]: Yeah.

John [00:36:15]: Ours is like a roller coaster at Six Flags. So it's like, it's not going to be the same. And, like, I'm not saying that you can't take care of yourself as a woman on your own, but every woman that is on her own would like somebody there to, like, share the experience with and the stress with and, like, have somebody to support them.

Nicole [00:36:36]: Yeah. A hormonal trip sitter.

John [00:36:40]: A what?

Nicole [00:36:41]: Hormonal trip sitter.

John [00:36:43]: A hormonal trip sitter.

Nicole [00:36:44]: Yeah. So you can just, like, hormone out

John [00:36:48]: and then the guy handles it while

Nicole [00:36:50]: you're like, just like, if you take a psychedelic substance, you have a trip sitter. You know, it's like a.

John [00:36:55]: A hormone. What you did there.

Nicole [00:36:57]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but, but, but, but. But I'm joking, but also serious, because.

John [00:37:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:03]: It's the freedom of, like, not having to hold it all together and manage all the things all the time.

John [00:37:10]: Yeah. For both people.

Nicole [00:37:12]: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

John [00:37:13]: Honestly, like, for both people. Like, there are things that I take over that you don't have to do and things that you definitely take over that I don't have to do. And that helps both of us, and then it also evens it out so that you're not super stressed out because you're doing every single thing.

Nicole [00:37:29]: Yeah.

John [00:37:30]: And then I'm not stressed out because I'm doing everything well.

Nicole [00:37:32]: And it's like, we. We. We haven't talked about it in a while, but I used to tell you a lot that a lot of the things that Stress you out. They're no problem for me. So it's like these things that are immensely stressful to you, that's no problem to me. Like, I can. I could take on all that load. Like, you. You worry about, you know, about taking care of me and I'll take care of everything else. Like, because those things don't. It doesn't have that effect on me. Like, I need the. The replenishment from you giving your love to me and taking care of me. And that gives me all the energy to take on most of the world and all those. Those things that would be stressful to you.

John [00:38:13]: Yeah. So, no, it makes a lot of sense.

Nicole [00:38:15]: Yeah.

John [00:38:17]: But, yeah, I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, like, if you watch this and you were like, I wanted them to figure out all the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey things. I mean, I think hopefully now you did figure some things out and figured out that it's none of your business. It's not our business. But, yeah, from the things that we do see, even though it's probably not even 20 of the picture, like, it's probably so small, like, even less than 20 of what we see from them is, like, what actually is going on. Like, we have no idea that, you know, at the end of the day, everybody wants love, including him. Like, he had his own. I mean, we talked a lot about Taylor Swift, but he had his own dating show.

Nicole [00:39:01]: Yeah.

John [00:39:01]: Where he did date the girl that was on it, at least for a while. And I don't know if that's the girl that's been, like, throwing shade at Taylor Swift or what. But, like, he was also in a different time of his life.

Nicole [00:39:13]: Right.

John [00:39:13]: And, you know, I mean, he's not at a age where he's probably feeling like he has to get married.

Nicole [00:39:22]: Right.

John [00:39:22]: But he obviously must like Taylor Swift enough where he's going to take himself off the market at 35.

Nicole [00:39:27]: Yeah.

John [00:39:28]: And want to be married to her.

Nicole [00:39:30]: Yeah.

John [00:39:31]: So, you know, like, he's also grown, she's grown. We don't know at the end of the day what really goes on between them, you know, but if that's what they want, then that's what they want. And she's making music about wanting this sort of lifestyle. Like.

Nicole [00:39:49]: Yeah.

John [00:39:49]: I think the real thing is because, like, I'm not here to. On feminism or anything either. I think that extremes of anything are bad. But I think, though, the key is that if you think you're a feminist and you're shitting on her for her wanting to live this life Right. Then you're just not a good person because, like, that's not. Yeah, well, that's. And you're definitely not a good feminist. Right?

Nicole [00:40:13]: The feminine choice.

John [00:40:14]: Yeah. That's what it should be. And I should.

Nicole [00:40:16]: It's what it should be. Yeah.

John [00:40:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:17]: Well.

John [00:40:18]: And that's why I'm like, I'm not going to shit on feminism, because that is what it's supposed to be.

Nicole [00:40:22]: Right.

John [00:40:23]: But again, it's, like, become extreme, and it's women policing what other women are doing. Like, women trying to tell women how to be a woman.

Nicole [00:40:34]: Right?

John [00:40:34]: And it's like, that's not. That's not what we're here to do. That's not. Like, we didn't. We didn't get rights and things as a woman to come out of, like, not having to have a husband. And like, now we can do stuff to. Now we're preventing other women from doing what they want to do. Like, that's not what the whole thing was about. Like, women were upset that they were being controlled by men, but now women are controlling other women. Like, that's not.

Nicole [00:41:01]: No, it just. And it's even that, like. Like, we do on the podcast is it's like, you could do whatever the you want.

John [00:41:08]: Right?

Nicole [00:41:09]: But if you want to have a relationship like we have and you like this, then we'll show you how to do it.

John [00:41:15]: Right, But. Right.

Nicole [00:41:16]: We're not telling you you have to do it. No, you could do whatever the you want to do whatever you wanted. Totally fine. But if you want what we have, there is a way to have it. And you can't just make up whatever rules you want and have this.

John [00:41:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:41:28]: Like.

John [00:41:29]: Or be like, I'm not going to do that. They said to do this, but I'm not going to do that.

Nicole [00:41:32]: Right.

John [00:41:32]: They said to not yell at each other, but we're going to still yell. And, like, that's not going to get

Nicole [00:41:36]: you, because we have figured out this thing, and if you find this valuable and you're like, okay, I like this. I want to have this kind of a depth of a relationship, then this is the way to have. Then you do have to listen to what we're saying.

John [00:41:49]: Right? But if you don't, then which Taylor Swift wants it? So there you go. Yeah, he's a rally.

Nicole [00:41:55]: But that. But I think that's the important thing to understand this, because it's like, sometimes also like, oh, well, you're telling people how they should be or what, are judging people? No, it's like, we're not judging. We're saying what. What fits with. With what we. What we know that works from a female, male. Dynamic, modern tradition. Yeah. For modern, traditional relationship. Like, this is how this system works together, since we invented the modern traditional relationship right here on this podcast.

John [00:42:25]: Well, and it's more than just the podcast, right? Like, people in our lives experience the type of dynamic that we have and the type of relationship that we have. And, like, we're trying to show people

Nicole [00:42:37]: figure out all the rules for it. Like, how do you actually, like, produce it?

John [00:42:43]: You know, because it's like, what do

Nicole [00:42:45]: we do instead of you looking at these old couples that are holding hands and, like, I wish we could be like that. It's like, well, wishing. How about a guidebook instead of a wishing? Right. And that's what we're doing. We're trying to, like, dissect it and be like, okay, well, this is how you actually create that.

John [00:43:01]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:01]: Instead of you just wishing and hoping that that will happen. Because, you know, we're seeing it, right. Yeah.

John [00:43:08]: And we're showing you all of it. The good, the ugly, the, you know, complicated. Because we want to help people, like, like I said, like, people in our lives experience our connection in person. And this is, like, the closest thing that we can do to, like, help people realize their type of relationship we. That we have and that it's different and that other people can have it. Because we've also built this, like. Yes, there was an instant sort of, like, connection there.

Nicole [00:43:42]: Yeah.

John [00:43:42]: But we've. If you've listened to our episodes, we've been through some. Yeah, I've already said so. I might as well just say we've been through some. And so, like, this is not sunshine Rainbows. We're not coming on here acting like, oh, everything's wonderful. And, like, you know, like, Travis Kelsey's brother, saying they don't fight. Like, that could mean that they don't fight the way that most people do. They don't attack each other. They don't yell at each other. But I'm sure they've been through something, and if they haven't, I'm sure they will maybe listen to this podcast and figure out how to. How to deal with it. But. But no, seriously, like, there'll be a

Nicole [00:44:21]: song, a song coming out called Better Than Perfect. Like, stole it from us.

John [00:44:29]: She watches it. But no, you know, they seem happy.

Nicole [00:44:33]: Yeah.

John [00:44:35]: Again, we're a little biased because we're traditional, but I think if people looked inside, they probably want a more traditional relationship than they think they do. And we have a modern, traditional relationship.

Nicole [00:44:46]: And so, I mean, that's the fairy tale ending. I think there's some. She has about a fairy tale ending. Is there?

John [00:44:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:53]: Is that right?

John [00:44:54]: I think it's one of the newer.

Nicole [00:44:55]: There we go.

John [00:44:57]: You do know something. But. Yeah, but no. Yeah. So.

Nicole [00:45:03]: All right, well, I think we. Yeah, we can wrap it here. We don't really have anything for this week because we already talked about what

John [00:45:10]: we were going through, but.

Nicole [00:45:12]: Yeah, but.

John [00:45:13]: But leave Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce alone. They're just trying to be in love or whatever they're doing. It's fine. They're adults. Let them do it.

Nicole [00:45:23]: And if you're new to the podcast, if you came here as a swiftie, what we talk about is modern, traditional relationships. Basically, what we said, like how to. How to build a relationship like ours where the man is a man and a woman is a woman, might not seem appealing to you at first. But hey, if you go back through our episode catalog and you give it a listen, maybe it'll grow on you. If not, that's fine. We'll still be here. We'll still be making episodes. But yeah, give us a follow, a subscribe share. Yeah, and check out the betterthanperfectpod.com website to get the latest episodes. You can subscribe on there too and see show notes and links. Anything we talk about. It's all AI ified and put into there. So we are on the AIs.

John [00:46:14]: We haven't done a book in a while.

Nicole [00:46:16]: Oh, yeah, we gotta do. I thought you're saying we have to write. We have to do. Write a book. Well, but yes, better than perfect. Volume one. So. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Take care.

John [00:46:29]: Bye.