John [00:00:00]: As a man, you can't just be like, don't be so insecure. Yeah, tell me again.

Nicole [00:00:03]: I'm scared. When you go to the gym and there's half naked, young, attractive women that you're going to run off with.

John [00:00:09]: I'm attracted to you. You don't have to worry about that. Feel better?

Nicole [00:00:12]: No.

John [00:00:12]: No. Right. So you can't feel like that or be insulted by, like, you have to actually listen to, why is she actually upset and what's making her insecure and make her feel secure by first listening to her and then reassuring. You can't just be like, oh, that's stupid. You shouldn't have to worry about that. I. I think you're super attractive. That doesn't do anything right. Just makes you feel.

Nicole [00:00:33]: You could think they're super attractive.

John [00:00:34]: Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:01:01]: Did you see what I did?

John [00:01:02]: What? You did this. No, what did you do?

Nicole [00:01:05]: I just went like this.

John [00:01:06]: Oh, two.

Nicole [00:01:07]: But you were like, what is this?

John [00:01:09]: I don't know. I was like. It was my peripheral vision. I was, like, trying to focus on the camera, and you're just, like, doing stuff. So, you know, in my. In my. Me.

Nicole [00:01:19]: Part of two.

John [00:01:20]: Yeah, part of two. That's what I thought.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Yes. I was doing the caveman language for all the cavemen out there. You know, the men that haven't evolved yet.

John [00:01:30]: We got an exciting episode today, actually. So we had a. A viewer, a listener, just one of. One of you guys who actually wrote in. And actually. But, you know, they just post on Reddit so that, you know, so we could answer it. But I know that's what you meant. So that's the.

Nicole [00:01:47]: Email it to us. Exactly.

John [00:01:49]: They're like, okay, but they'll find it on Reddit. So that's what they did, is like. Yeah. So thank you for whoever did that posted on Reddit. This way, it could be, you know, shared. Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:59]: Everybody could see it.

John [00:02:00]: So. Yeah. So we thought we'd go over this one that they posted. So. And it says, partner, M, male, 35, has not spoken to me, female, 31, for seven days. We live together, so. Yeah. So, I mean, right off the bat, though, like, seven days, there's gotta be something.

Nicole [00:02:22]: That's insane.

John [00:02:23]: That's not.

Nicole [00:02:24]: That's a whole week.

John [00:02:25]: It's not good.

Nicole [00:02:25]: When you live with someone and you don't speak to them for a whole week.

John [00:02:29]: Yeah. It's not. Not acceptable.

Nicole [00:02:31]: No.

John [00:02:32]: Even if they did something really, really.

Nicole [00:02:34]: Bad, even as an avoidant person that would try to run away. Yeah, that is.

John [00:02:39]: Yeah. It's like you're either. You break up with them if it's that bad.

Nicole [00:02:44]: Right, Right.

John [00:02:45]: Or you talk to them. Right. But not talking to them for seven days already. We don't have to read any more of this. Is abusive.

Nicole [00:02:54]: Right.

John [00:02:54]: Type of toxic. Definitely emotional manipulations. It's emotional manipulation.

Nicole [00:03:01]: Right.

John [00:03:01]: Seven days, you can't. Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:03]: Yeah. You can't deny that.

John [00:03:04]: Yeah. So no matter what they've done that's wrong. Just red flag. Make it clear for everyone.

Nicole [00:03:09]: Red flag.

John [00:03:10]: It's like even if they've done something horribly bad, even if they've cheated on you.

Nicole [00:03:13]: Right.

John [00:03:14]: Then you need to break up with them or talk to them. But emotionally abusing them, which is what that is. Or emotionally manipulating them is not the answer.

Nicole [00:03:23]: Yeah. It's not. Okay.

John [00:03:25]: All right. So she says, hi, everyone. I'm struggling and need advice. My partner together for 2.5 years, living together six months. And I have, and I have a generally amazing relationship. We laugh constantly, have great sex life, share hobbies, trips and our dog, and genuinely see them as my future. All right.

Nicole [00:03:47]: Okay. One, they've only been living together six months and he's ignoring her for seven days. For a whole week.

John [00:03:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:53]: That's like not very long to live together.

John [00:03:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:56]: For someone to ignore you for a whole week.

John [00:03:58]: Well, look, six months. Right. Seven days is like a third of a month. Right.

Nicole [00:04:03]: So I'm not mathing. You can math. I am not mathing.

John [00:04:09]: It's. It's, it's a.

Nicole [00:04:11]: It's.

John [00:04:12]: It's. It's. Okay. One. If it was. If it was one month out of six, that would be 1 6.

Nicole [00:04:18]: Right.

John [00:04:19]: But if it's the third of a month, then. Or, you know, six times three. 18. One. 18. 1 18th of their relationship, living together, he's not talked to her. It doesn't sound that bad either way. It is bad. No, I mean, I thought it was going to sound.

Nicole [00:04:34]: Out of six months. That's pretty bad.

John [00:04:36]: Yeah, that is. Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:38]: That's so.

John [00:04:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:40]: But my issue here, too is, like, genuinely great relationship otherwise. And she lists these things.

John [00:04:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:46]: Which I'm not saying she doesn't have those things. But. But he didn't just start ignoring you for seven days. And if he did, then he was, like, hiding his true behavior. From you for two years up until this point. I mean, when you don't live together, it is easier to kind of hide these things.

John [00:05:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:10]: But I think she would have still picked up on. They would have gotten into some argument or disagreement when they didn't live together.

John [00:05:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:18]: Where he would ignore her.

John [00:05:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:21]: So it's probably not as great as she's making it seem.

John [00:05:24]: It's like, it's almost like it's giving the. Without even going further in that she is the clingy like believe that this is great. It's great.

Nicole [00:05:34]: Right?

John [00:05:34]: It's great.

Nicole [00:05:35]: She's trying to convince herself.

John [00:05:36]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:05:36]: That it's great.

John [00:05:37]: He's not actually great on. On. Exactly.

Nicole [00:05:41]: Right.

John [00:05:41]: Yeah. Like she's in the chasing mode is what this sounds like.

Nicole [00:05:44]: Right. Okay. Yeah.

John [00:05:46]: Especially if she's even having this question after seven days.

Nicole [00:05:49]: I mean, that's true.

John [00:05:49]: If. If someone's not talking to me for two days, I'm moving to the hotel room. I'm like, I'm okay. Peace.

Nicole [00:05:59]: Like, yeah.

John [00:06:00]: You don't want to talk.

Nicole [00:06:01]: Living together.

John [00:06:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:02]: Is time a week. Living together.

John [00:06:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:07]: And someone's not talking to you.

John [00:06:09]: So. Okay, let's see what she says. She says over the past few months we've had a few arguments. They usually stem around me expressing self doubt or anxiety which he says is frustrating or negative. He's never been abusive before. Okay. So at least she acknowledges that this is abuse. But his way of coping seems to be withdrawing completely. I've never been told I'm negative before in my life and I'm fairly confident person and I do like myself. Emphasis added by me. But I think I'm great. But like any human, from time to time I have self doubt and express frustration to get it off my chest.

Nicole [00:06:50]: Yeah. Here's the thing. She just contradicted herself. She's like, I get anxious and I say these things to him and. And then he gets mad at me. But I'm great and I'm like a really good person. Girl, you're anxious like you, you're having self doubts which is normal. Everybody has. She's true about that.

John [00:07:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:08]: But don't sit here and write I great.

John [00:07:11]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:12]: When like you don't feel that way and that's what you've been expressing to him. I'm not saying that he's justified in how he reacts to you by being like, you're so negative. Whatever. He should still reassure you.

John [00:07:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:24]: I mean it does depend on how she's bringing it up, but he should want to Reassure her. Even if after he's like, you know, you're telling yourself these stories and they're allowing you to come across negative and you're being negative towards yourself.

John [00:07:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:39]: Like she's not confident. Like she's trying to portray in the end, right. Like, because she just told us she was negative. I mean, anxious.

John [00:07:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:50]: And he's taking as negative. But then she's trying to overcompensate and she probably learned it from him being like, you're so negative by being like, but I know I'm great. No one's called me negative. Like I'm a really good person. Like, and I'm not even saying she's not those things.

John [00:08:04]: No. But I'm saying she's got some self esteem issues. Right? Like she has to have. Because if she said, yeah, I do. I am kind of, you know, have some self esteem, I'm insecure person.

Nicole [00:08:18]: Right.

John [00:08:18]: And. And he can't handle that or whatever, then okay, but if you're saying, oh yeah, I sometimes express some self doubt, but I'm really confident, like if you're feeling the need to tell people that, then it's probably not the case. Right.

Nicole [00:08:33]: You're trying to convince yourself as well.

John [00:08:35]: Yeah, it's giving a very needy type of vibe. Like a needy in a negative way, not in a good way. Like there's a needy in a good way that a woman can be needy towards a man in a good way. Meaning that, like, I want you to take care of me and provide and I want your affection and your time. But that comes from like, I want you.

Nicole [00:08:53]: Right.

John [00:08:54]: Versus needy in the bad way comes from I want anybody to give me attention or whatever. Right. And you're the one. And that's also where again, like she sees him as like she may be idealizing their relationship because he's just a plug and play for her projection of the ideal man. He's not actually the man because the ideal man doesn't ignore you for seven days and think you're annoying. Right. Um, but you're projecting this stuff onto him because you want him to be the perfect relationship. Perfect man.

Nicole [00:09:26]: Right.

John [00:09:27]: You know?

Nicole [00:09:27]: Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. I think if she just owned up to being anxious.

John [00:09:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:32]: It would be better because I think that my interpretation of this is that she's super anxious.

John [00:09:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:40]: She goes to him for reassurance, he calls her negative. So then she's like, okay, well I need to be positive and talk good things about myself. So she tries to do that. But really she's just now even more anxious and insecure.

John [00:09:52]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:53]: And like by talking to him, it's pushing her further down that spiral and then she's trying to convince him and herself probably that she's not anxious by posting that.

John [00:10:05]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:10:05]: But really she's just getting more. It's, it's like when people aren't confident.

John [00:10:09]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:11]: And if you're like in the middle where you're like, oh, I'm great sometimes, but it's like, yeah, I'm a little anxious sometimes too. That's like kind of normal. But then when you get really far into the insecure and unconfident, it's the people who are like, I'm the most amazing person ever and look at my hair, it's like best you've ever seen.

John [00:10:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:28]: That they go overly confident, but really.

John [00:10:31]: They'Re the most insecure and that's showing the most insecure.

Nicole [00:10:34]: Right. And I think she's at that stage. I think that she's tried to talk to him about her anxiety and you know, self doubt and whatever and he's not responding. He's not giving her a reassurance because he seems avoidant. Let's be real.

John [00:10:49]: Yeah, that's for sure.

Nicole [00:10:51]: And so that's making her more anxious.

John [00:10:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:54]: And then now I think she's gotten to like critical insecure level, which this.

John [00:10:58]: Is a confusion of being vulnerable.

Nicole [00:11:01]: Right.

John [00:11:01]: Because if you want to be vulnerable, drop the act.

Nicole [00:11:03]: Right. Just be like, people are going to be like this and I'm sick second guessing myself and I don't know what to do.

John [00:11:08]: Yeah. But even when you're dealing with someone, you need to be like, you can't come to them and be like, I'm feeling insecure about this, but I like. And still having the Persona, you have to drop the act.

Nicole [00:11:18]: Right.

John [00:11:18]: Like you can't be like, but I'm good and I'm, I have self confidence.

Nicole [00:11:22]: Right?

John [00:11:22]: No, you don't, because that's why you're telling me this thing.

Nicole [00:11:25]: Yeah.

John [00:11:25]: Right. But, but obviously he's not dealing with things in the right way.

Nicole [00:11:28]: Right. And I think it's making it worse.

John [00:11:30]: Yeah. Well, here, let's role play it. Like you, you tell me.

Nicole [00:11:33]: I love good role play these days.

John [00:11:35]: Tell me that something that you're anxious or like you feel insecure about, like something we went to the gym and you feel like there's attractive women at the gym and, and maybe that, that, that I'd be interested in those women.

Nicole [00:11:55]: Yeah.

John [00:11:55]: Okay, tell me that when you go.

Nicole [00:11:58]: To the gym, there's all these attractive young women and I'm only getting older and they're in half naked clothes. Makes me nervous. Makes me feel like you're gonna run off with one of them.

John [00:12:08]: Oh, well, why does it, why does it make you feel that. That way? Like, what do you mean specifically?

Nicole [00:12:14]: Because you value youth and beauty like most men. And I'm only getting older and you're concerned and they're already half naked. So easy.

John [00:12:25]: Okay. And that, and that. And how does that make you feel?

Nicole [00:12:29]: Feels like there's nothing I can really do besides be half naked because I can't get younger.

John [00:12:37]: But you know how I feel about you, right?

Nicole [00:12:39]: Yes.

John [00:12:40]: And you know that I'm always gonna love you and it doesn't matter, like even. It doesn't even. It doesn't even matter what you look like at this point, but you're amazingly beautiful.

Nicole [00:12:50]: But how do I know?

John [00:12:52]: How do you know what?

Nicole [00:12:53]: How do I know that I.

John [00:12:55]: That this is true?

Nicole [00:12:56]: Yeah.

John [00:12:58]: How. How do you think that, you know, what are the evidence, the things that.

Nicole [00:13:02]: You do to prove that to me?

John [00:13:03]: Right, right. And, and there's going to be some trust. But, but that's, that's. The whole thing is like, as a man, you have to. You can't just be like, okay, do it. Like, if you. Like, like, don't be so insecure. Like, yeah, like, like, yeah, tell me again.

Nicole [00:13:22]: Get over it.

John [00:13:22]: Yeah, yeah, tell me again.

Nicole [00:13:24]: I'm scared. When you go to the gym and there's half naked, young, attractive women that you're going to run off with.

John [00:13:29]: I'm attracted to you. You don't have to worry about that. Feel better?

Nicole [00:13:34]: No.

John [00:13:34]: No. Right. So you can't be like that or be insulted by, like, you have to actually listen to, why is she actually upset and what's making her insecure and make her feel secure by first listening to her and then reassuring. You can't just be like, oh, that's stupid. You shouldn't have to worry about that. I think you're super attractive. That doesn't do anything.

Nicole [00:13:57]: Right, Right.

John [00:13:58]: It just makes you feel.

Nicole [00:13:59]: Because you could think they're super attractive.

John [00:14:01]: Right. But if you feel like, I heard what you had to say and why you're insecure and what is making you insecure in that situation, and I understand it. And then now I reassure you and tell you that you have nothing to worry about because you're amazingly beautiful and the only woman I'd want to be with.

Nicole [00:14:19]: You're proving by caring about even this interaction that it's more than just physical. Like, you're not gonna do what I'm worried about. You know what I mean?

John [00:14:31]: Yeah. Because if you're with a woman and most men are gonna have to face this where she. Most women are insecure, have some kind of insecurity, especially if you're with an attractive woman. The more attractive the woman is, the more insecure that she is generally. Right. Like, it seems like it would be the opposite, but it's. It's not. It's not true. Because the reason why more attractive women are more insecure is because it's the thing that is their most valuable thing. That is not something that they are in control of.

Nicole [00:14:57]: Right.

John [00:14:57]: And so if they lose that, then who are they? See, that's why, you know, guys think, oh, well, if she's more attractive, she'd be more secure. No, she's more insecure because there's the one thing that she's being prized for that she's not in control of. She didn't create. And if she loses that thing, or maybe she's. She's starting to lose that thing, then she's scared. She's afraid that there's nothing beneath that, that people are valuing that. They're only valuing her for that thing. And that's the thing that she's getting the attention for. That's why women.

Nicole [00:15:30]: And I'm going to be vulnerable right now because obviously you brought up. We're role playing this thing. It's something that I have said before.

John [00:15:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:39]: And you're right. In regards to looks, I feel like women are, for the most part, most women are insecure unless they're in their prime. But even then, like I said, they're still, you know. Yeah. They know it's going to be over, so they're stressing about that already.

John [00:15:55]: Or if a guy's picked a hot woman and you're hot, then he's like, well, then there's other hot women. So, like, he chooses women based on.

Nicole [00:16:02]: Their, you know, like, yeah, I'm confident in who I am. Knowing that you would never find another woman like me. I am completely confident that. Yeah, but it's like with the looks thing. Right. I could be totally confident over here.

John [00:16:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:16]: But a man might want to go for the physical part and I can't control that. You know what I mean? Like, you want to believe that a man will want to love you for who you are, and I believe that you love me for who I am and you understand that. But it's like, as a woman, you don't know if a man's going to go now for, you know, well, now he wants a hot woman. He doesn't care what the inside is. He just cares about the outside right now. So that's why it's like, yeah. There's so many different layers to being a woman and being insecure. It's like, yeah, physically, I feel like we all are insecure. I mean, even when I was young and like, the tiniest I've ever been or whatever, like, I would think I was. Could lose weight or something. It's like. It's just insane. It's ingrained in us from a very young age. But physically, that is scary. And men being physical beings, it's like, as women, we value more of, like, who someone is on the inside. Not saying that women don't care about looks, but it's more about who a man is. And so even if we're confident in who we are.

John [00:17:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:18]: And what we bring to the table.

John [00:17:19]: Sure.

Nicole [00:17:21]: The looks part we can't control. And there is always going to be someone that looks better or whatever, is younger, whatever. So it's like, that's a scary thing. Even if you're confident in yourself as who you are as a woman.

John [00:17:33]: Right, Right.

Nicole [00:17:34]: You don't always feel secure because what if someone hotter comes along and then. And the guy's just like, I don't care about the other part. I just care about the hotness right now.

John [00:17:46]: So. Right. And the answer to that is that a woman will always need reassurance. Right.

Nicole [00:17:54]: Like in the right way.

John [00:17:55]: And it's just not defective if she is insecure about her looks from time to time. Right. But. But if you respond in the wrong way. Right. If every time you're insecure, I was like, it's. What are you worrying about? You're so hot. Like, just not a big deal. Yeah. Right. Then would that make you now keep on asking me more and more times? Right.

Nicole [00:18:17]: Yeah.

John [00:18:17]: Because now you got to check, is this still the case?

Nicole [00:18:19]: Well, it feels like superficial. Altitude, not deep response.

John [00:18:22]: I'm not really addressing you as a human being.

Nicole [00:18:25]: Right. It sounds like you're just trying to get me to stop talking, but if.

John [00:18:29]: I totally address it and understand what's behind it, how do you actually feel about this? I care about how you feel about this and now give you reassurance, then. Yeah. It doesn't permanently fix it, but it makes it go away for a long time. And then at some point, maybe a month down the road or two, Months down the road, it starts to creep up again, and that's okay. And I calmly address it again because I'm helping you to. Which is good. Like, you want a woman to. As a man, to like, to actually. To seek your validation as like to seek reassurance from you that you're still going to love her, that she's like, that's what's. It's a good thing. If she doesn't care, it's a bad thing. She's like, I know I'm hot anyway. Like, doesn't matter. Like, then she's probably not that into you.

Nicole [00:19:20]: Right.

John [00:19:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:19:21]: Because honestly. Because she thinks she can do better.

John [00:19:23]: Yeah. And really, the cure, I think, like, ultimately for. For the woman to mitigate that. What you said that. That. That insecurity of. Of there will be younger, hotter women is that it's the temperature of the. The. The woman. I talked about this in another episode is the thermostat of the relationship, of the temperature of the relationship. So if you're a woman in a relationship and you know that. That it's. There's a problem with the relationship's thermostat, you need to bring it up and. And have an issue with that. Because if you allow it to be at a low level, then that's where bad things.

Nicole [00:20:01]: But what would that look like? Like, an example.

John [00:20:03]: Like, okay, if. If we are like, you know what the temperature of the relationship is, like, we're really close. We are, you know, we're in our soulmate zone, our soulmate arc. Right. Then you don't have to worry about. About the. Then. Then you know that in my mind, like, it doesn't matter. You're beyond. Our relationship is beyond looks.

Nicole [00:20:30]: But I'm saying, in her case, is she bringing it up like that, the temperature in the relationship by telling him her insecurities, or is there a way that she could have done it differently?

John [00:20:40]: No, I'm just saying. I'm. I'm saying that that particular insecurity, like, you don't have to worry about that if your relationship level is high.

Nicole [00:20:51]: Right. Like, you don't have to worry about the.

John [00:20:54]: But if. But if you're a woman and your relationship level, like, you know you're not close, you know you're not tight, you know you don't have that intimacy, then, yeah, you should be worried. Should be insecure about it because she's. Guys are visual. It's like, if you don't have a very tight bond, then why would he select you? Why wouldn't he just pick the most attractive woman that he can find physically at this point in time versus you and idealize their. What emotional relationship he would have with that woman. But if you have a very strong emotional relationship, then it doesn't matter. Then he's not, you know, he's not going to be thinking, which I think logically.

Nicole [00:21:33]: That makes sense.

John [00:21:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:34]: But I feel like a lot of times men don't always act logically either because we've done other episodes where, you know, women are like, I did everything and then the guy left me. Which I'm not saying that I believe that she did absolutely everything.

John [00:21:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:49]: But there are plenty of people that have been blindsided by things that men do.

John [00:21:54]: It's just a matter of. Of a question of, okay, where is a. As a man more likely to do a boneheaded thing and go astray if he's in a relationship where the relationship. Right now, you guys are really, really close, tight soulmates. Tell each other everything. Like reading each other's thoughts, like lovey dovey all the time or it's very cold and distant.

Nicole [00:22:18]: Well, okay. Without going too far into this, but.

John [00:22:21]: Which is more likely though?

Nicole [00:22:23]: No, I know the cold and distant, but I'm going to throw you for a loop really quick.

John [00:22:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:28]: And don't go too far off at this table because we got to finish. But you have a friend and I'm not going to name names.

John [00:22:36]: Okay. Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:37]: Who said that everything was fine.

John [00:22:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:40]: And then said some bonehead stupid thing that broke up his.

John [00:22:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:45]: Relationship.

John [00:22:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:47]: And then now wants to get it back.

John [00:22:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:50]: And he said that nothing was wrong with it before he said the boneheaded thing.

John [00:22:55]: But was there really, like, they couldn't have been that close. Right. Because she didn't know what he was thinking for all this time. Because it wasn't going back because he was talking to people and getting advice. Wrong advice.

Nicole [00:23:07]: Yeah.

John [00:23:08]: Or figuring out some of this stuff because this was going on in his head. So she wasn't. They weren't really that as like, the temperature of the relationship was not of the. Of the level that.

Nicole [00:23:20]: Why does he want her back now then?

John [00:23:23]: Because he's the bonehead and he like.

Nicole [00:23:25]: He messed up, but so was he ruining the temperature by getting bad advice?

John [00:23:30]: It doesn't.

Nicole [00:23:30]: Putting.

John [00:23:30]: That's why I said that a woman is the thermostat for the relationship to know what the temperature is. She should know what it is. How close are you guys at any moment in time? Like, and women do know, like, if, if you know what the status of your relationship is if it's in the. In the green or in the red. Like, you know, a man might not know. He's not as good as the thermos. He should be able to know. But. But a woman more so knows that. But the man is the actual regulator of the. He's the one who's in charge of actually fixing the.

Nicole [00:24:03]: What if she brings it up and he doesn't?

John [00:24:05]: Then, then, then she knows that she's in the danger zone. Like, it's like, so she needs to leave. I mean, yeah, basically, like, she's like, okay, like you've got to fix it. She has to keep on letting him know that that needs to be fixed. Yeah, that there's a problem here. Right. Like there's a problem here. You know, seatbelt light, seatbelt noise, noise. They keep on going ding, ding. Right. If she stops going ding, then her relationship is falling apart.

Nicole [00:24:35]: That's true.

John [00:24:35]: And that's what happens, is that. But that's why I'm saying the woman is the thermostat because she under. She feels the closeness or not.

Nicole [00:24:41]: Right.

John [00:24:41]: And she's like, okay, we're not very close right now. Yeah, there's some things that maybe she can do, but the biggest thing that she can do is go ding, ding, ding, so that it's alerting to him.

Nicole [00:24:52]: Okay, so this lady's dinging, but he's ignoring the ding like someone else we know.

John [00:24:59]: Okay, so then let's see what she says.

Nicole [00:25:02]: The literal seatbelt.

John [00:25:03]: Yeah, the literal. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, so we talked about her. Okay, so she said, background on previous arguments. One argument. One, I didn't ask him to drive me when I was hungover because I didn't want to disrupt his work. He said my quote, people pleasing is a problem, and didn't speak to me for four hours.

Nicole [00:25:26]: Okay, don't go further.

John [00:25:28]: Yeah, no, there's a lot today.

Nicole [00:25:30]: Why is he mad at her? For her not asking him to drive her when she's hungover. She's not drunk. He's mad at her. Yeah, because she didn't want to bother him by asking him. And then he doesn't talk to her.

John [00:25:44]: Okay, good. Actually, I'm surprised that you took that side of it. Because she needs to ask for help because a man. What did I tell you about a man?

Nicole [00:25:55]: Right, but you're ignore for two days.

John [00:25:58]: No, no, he didn't do the right thing for sure. I mean, well, she said four hours. He didn't talk to her. But silent treatment is Never the answer ever. So I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not getting to his response yet, but just like, why would he be upset? He was okay to be upset because as a woman, you need to get help from your man.

Nicole [00:26:19]: But I feel like being hungover and driving is not a big deal. Like, being drunk. Yes, she should not drive drunk.

John [00:26:26]: Yeah, but if she feels like she needs help, but she. If she's feeling like. I don't want to bother you because you're. You're working. No, please bother us.

Nicole [00:26:33]: But what if you have a call? Yeah, just like yesterday. Plumbing.

John [00:26:36]: Yeah, but then. But then I mitigated that situation, right? I was like, look, okay, I'm gonna have to have this call. You know? Can you handle this? Like, I'm gonna need you to. Right. Basically, we talked about it, and if you're like, no, I like, when these guys show up, I can't. I. Like, I feel really uncomfortable. I. Then I'd be like, okay, I'm going to have to reschedule my call. Like, I have to deal with the situation, but I need you to at least tell me that there's a problem.

Nicole [00:27:00]: Could he act that way? I guess that's my thing is, like, he obviously didn't ask him for a reason. Like, and instead of being like, hey, you can come to me for help, he's pissed and doesn't talk to her for two days.

John [00:27:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:27:15]: You know what I mean? Like, I think the reason she doesn't want to ask him stuff is because he makes her feel like a burden.

John [00:27:21]: He said four hours. She said four hours.

Nicole [00:27:22]: Oh, Oh.

John [00:27:23]: I didn't speak to her for four hours. But still, that's still not okay. Four hours is still not like, silent treatment, even for four hours is not okay.

Nicole [00:27:30]: Yeah, but.

John [00:27:31]: But it's like, yeah, but as a woman asking a man for help because she said, I didn't ask him to drive me when I was hungover because I didn't want to disrupt his work. Right. And he said, my people pleasing is their problem and didn't speak to me for four hours. So I think it. It's the issue that. That clingy. Like, I don't want to say clingy. I would say neediness in a bad way that she's like, oh, I don't even want to, like, upset him. So I'm not gonna. But. But obviously she brought it up later at some point, and then that's what he got upset about. Right. Otherwise, how would he know about it? She must have said something. So he knew about it. And she must have, she must have, like, she must have been, like, tried to use it again. I'm, I'm assuming. But this is, the only way that it makes sense to me is that if she is like, oh, yeah, I was really hungover, actually, yesterday, but I really didn't want to disturb you at your work, so I just drove myself. I was, I thought about calling you, but I was like, I don't want to. So she was trying to get points by saying how, you know, she didn't bother him at his work. But then he's interpreting that as like, you're trying to gain points. Like, stop being people pleasing. I don't know. That's just my. But either way, like, his, He's a child. Like, his response is not.

Nicole [00:28:49]: I mean, I can see her perspective, though. It's like, okay, I'm just hungover. Like, I'm not gonna ask you to drive me when I could do it. Even though it might be a minor inconvenience and throw off your work schedule, especially because you've so stressed out.

John [00:29:04]: I would like to be informed as a man to, like, if that's going on, I'd like you to at least text me or call me and be like, okay, I don't want to disturb you, but this is what's going on. Like, I can handle it. I can drive. And then I'd like to be able to say, okay, yeah, I get it. Go ahead. Like, you know, or to be able to say, no, no, no, no, no. I, I, I don't want you to, like, let me come in, Let me get.

Nicole [00:29:25]: But it's also like, did he tell her that he wants to be informed? Because I think that's also like, it's another one of those things kind of where it's like in the last episode. Is this something that I need to burden somebody with to, like, say out loud or can I just deal with this?

John [00:29:42]: A man would rather be asked for help. Like, I, in no circumstances do I want you to just deal with something that you could at least let me know that you could use. You could potentially use help, which I get that. And then I might say, okay, actually, you know, you can.

Nicole [00:29:56]: Some men want to help, but I'm.

John [00:29:58]: Just, yeah, we have to use the ideal. Like, what is a, Like a man versus a boy again.

Nicole [00:30:03]: But like, this guy, he's acting like a boy.

John [00:30:06]: No, he's acting like a boy. That's why he wants behavior he can't handle. A Woman.

Nicole [00:30:10]: Yeah.

John [00:30:10]: Which is also like, again, we're making fun of her a little bit, saying that she's needy and has like a self esteem issue. Right. Which again, I don't like to use the word needy as a bad thing.

Nicole [00:30:18]: Because sometimes it's like, yeah, I wouldn't use that.

John [00:30:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:21]: If men want women to need them.

John [00:30:24]: But he's creating.

Nicole [00:30:24]: Neediness is the wrong word.

John [00:30:26]: But he's potentially creating this monster by the way that he's acting. Because.

Nicole [00:30:30]: Thousand percent.

John [00:30:31]: Right. Because if a woman, if she. Maybe she is just super insecure woman, but maybe she wasn't. Maybe she was just a normally insecure woman, which women have insecurities, like you said. And then the way that he's responding to her insecurity is making her hyper paranoid and hyper insecure. And now she's acting super, super, like clingy in the negative way or needy in the negative way towards him because she's. Because he's made her feel this way because he responds as well.

Nicole [00:30:58]: And she's trying to be less needy in the wrong way. Which I agree with you. I think, I don't. I'm not talking bad about this woman. I think that she is anxious.

John [00:31:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:07]: I think a lot of women are anxious like we talked about. They have their own insecurities. But I think that he is creating a lot of these situations because he doesn't want to reassure her.

John [00:31:21]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:21]: And have that neediness.

John [00:31:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:23]: So then she's trying to be less needy by not telling him these things. And then he's pissed about that too. Again, it's like, it's a very confusing situation because somewhere along the lines he's not being. And I know this for a fact.

John [00:31:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:36]: Basically.

John [00:31:37]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:37]: I hate to be like 100%, but I'm almost willing to say 100%. He's not communicating because he's ignoring her.

John [00:31:44]: Exactly. You're 100%. Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:46]: He is creating this monster because he's not being clear. Then gets pissed at her when she does the wrong thing.

John [00:31:52]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:53]: And then she's trying to figure it out and she has no idea what to do. So she probably came to him. He's like, you're being so negative. Why are you doing this? So then when she's hungover, she's like, I don't want to disturb him because he's probably going to think that this isn't that big of a deal. And then he's pissed that she didn't ask him.

John [00:32:07]: Yeah, I think you got it. Exactly. And look at the Beginning of our relationship. Right. Did I handle your insecurity correctly? I don't think.

Nicole [00:32:18]: I don't know.

John [00:32:19]: I don't think I did. I don't think I did. Like, I know you don't want to say anything bad about me, but I don't think I did. And I think it made you more insecure. Right. Because when you would. When you would say stuff, right? And I would be like, I think there. I think there were times where I said, stop. I'd be like, stop being so insecure.

Nicole [00:32:36]: Yeah.

John [00:32:36]: Or I would get personally offended by your insecurity. That's actually what I do.

Nicole [00:32:40]: Yeah.

John [00:32:40]: Right. Because I'd be like, I'm not even looking at anyone. Like, it's like, yeah, there's. Okay, if you think I'm getting. If you're getting upset at me because you think I'm looking at someone at the gym, and I'm not. That. That is an issue. But as a man, now I know how to handle that. Instead of getting upset or personally attacked, I'd be like, oh, wow. Like, why. Why do you even.

Nicole [00:33:02]: Yeah, it is a lot different. You're right.

John [00:33:04]: Like, yeah, but. But that's the thing is. But. But when I acted more that way, I was like, stop being insecure. Like, you need to stop being insecure.

Nicole [00:33:12]: I'm healed.

John [00:33:14]: Like that.

Nicole [00:33:14]: Wow.

John [00:33:15]: Even when I'm like, this is on you. I didn't do anything. But you. You're being insecure. So you're causing a problem that doesn't fix the.

Nicole [00:33:23]: No, it's not.

John [00:33:25]: That's not good.

Nicole [00:33:26]: Yeah. So not very caring.

John [00:33:29]: No Number two argument. Two, while playing a sport. We both do. I. It must have be pickleball. I just.

Nicole [00:33:40]: Pickleball.

John [00:33:40]: Pickleball. From now on, when people have a non. Name, right, it's like, I. Yeah, we gotta play pickleball sometime. But. Okay, well, playing. I'm trying to think of puns on pickle, dickle ball or whatever.

Nicole [00:33:53]: Sean.

John [00:33:53]: Okay, well, what was the one, though? Twerking on my gherkin. That. That's my original statement.

Nicole [00:34:02]: I don't think that's original, but it is original.

John [00:34:04]: I came up with. Okay, look, it's possible that I didn't. That's because it sounds so good that you think you've heard it before because you're like, that's brilliant. Twerking on my Gurkha.

Nicole [00:34:13]: Heard that.

John [00:34:14]: Okay, maybe someone else. Someone else in the universe might have simultaneously came up with that. I'll give that. But I didn't. It was my original Thought to me.

Nicole [00:34:23]: Okay, Okay. I believe that.

John [00:34:25]: All right. While playing a sport. We both do. I expressed frustration about not being very good. He got very upset saying my negative feelings affect him and that he, quote, wasn't sure he wanted to be with me. After that, he ignored me for two days. Okay. There's a few things here. Like, obviously, it's really, at this point, giving.

Nicole [00:34:48]: He doesn't want to be with you.

John [00:34:50]: Yeah. Like, you know when. You know when you're little kids, right? And you got that annoying kid that wants to be in the friend group, and you're just like. And they're like, hey, what are we doing today? And then, like, you conspire with the other kids to just, like, not pass them the ball and just like to go play on the slide. And they chase you, and you're like. And you just ignore them.

Nicole [00:35:12]: And you're like, I was not a bully.

John [00:35:14]: No, I. You know, but you're like, go away. Or maybe you've been the subject of that.

Nicole [00:35:18]: Great.

John [00:35:19]: Like. Like, you either have done it or been the subject of it, but probably everyone knows what I'm talking about. Right? It's like, you're like, what? Like this annoying little kid is not getting the message that we don't want to be.

Nicole [00:35:30]: You're just trying to, like, ignore them.

John [00:35:33]: But they just keep on showing up and they keep on. But you don't have the. The, like, the. The guts as a kid to be like, look, we don't want to play with you. You're not. You're not our. Our kind of person. Like, it's cool. Like, go.

Nicole [00:35:47]: And that's me.

John [00:35:48]: I know, but. But instead you do something even more mean, which is to just ignore them.

Nicole [00:35:53]: Yeah. And they don't exist.

John [00:35:54]: Exactly. Right. Like, a lot of times it happens with, like, the little brother or the little sister or something like that. You know, it's like the. But. But. You know, but that's. That's what this is giving. It's like, you're not getting the message, okay? He's ignoring you for days at a time and insulting you and being like, I don't think I want to be with you.

Nicole [00:36:12]: But why is he still doing stuff with her?

John [00:36:13]: Because he's like, why? Okay, because he's a boy who's afraid to be like.

Nicole [00:36:18]: He's not afraid to be like, you're so negative. And then ignore her.

John [00:36:21]: He wants her to walk away. Like, it's the same thing. The kids in the playground, right. They don't have the guts to be like, look, we don't want to play with you. Right. So what they're hoping is that by ignoring the person and treating them badly, if you treat them badly enough and ignore them, then they will walk away instead of you having to tell them, I don't want to.

Nicole [00:36:40]: But he has the guts to be like, you're a people pleaser, right?

John [00:36:42]: So he's just trying to, like, push her away. He's like, you're annoying me like a lot of people. Exactly.

Nicole [00:36:48]: This. This is a huge problem.

John [00:36:49]: I agree. I agree.

Nicole [00:36:50]: Like, you're right by calling it boy behavior because it. It's ridiculous if you don't. If he doesn't want to be with her, he needs to say that. He can say all these other things. He can ignore her, right?

John [00:37:03]: Yeah. He can be like, look, I can't handle. I can't handle you.

Nicole [00:37:07]: Right? She's like, I'm not very good at this. And he's like, you're so negative. And he leaves. That's just what I'm imagining.

John [00:37:11]: It's like, I'm gonna break up with you because I can't handle you. Like, you're too much for me. Like, that. That'd be hard.

Nicole [00:37:16]: Didn't he say that? Didn't he, like, threaten, basically.

John [00:37:18]: But he didn't actually do it, right?

Nicole [00:37:20]: So he can say that, but then he can't do it.

John [00:37:22]: Or like, if you're doing things right as a man and you're actually a man and you're, like, giving her secure, like, validation, and she's just super hyper insecure no matter what you do and is, then you might have to be like, look, I've. I've shown you, you know, I've done as much as I could for you, but, like, your insecurity is negatively affecting my life, and I don't think that we should be together. I'm not. I'm not going to end it instead of like, okay, I'm not like, yeah, yeah, stop being insecure. It's annoying me. It's bringing me down and that's it. But I'm talking to you.

Nicole [00:37:57]: My thing is, how do you say things like that? But then you can't just say you want to leave like, he wanted her to leave, but why? He's a. I'm sorry I said the P word.

John [00:38:06]: But really, like, you finally said the P word. I'm proud of you. But.

Nicole [00:38:11]: But honestly, you can say all this other shit, but you can't say, I don't want to be with you.

John [00:38:16]: He said he. That's like the one wasn't sure he wanted to be with me again. This is emotional manipulation. See? Okay, if you say, I'm not sure I want to be with you, that's emotional manipulation.

Nicole [00:38:30]: What I want you to do, then I do. But if you don't.

John [00:38:33]: Yeah, right again, it's little kids on the playground. Right? You know, that's exactly what it. What? It's giving. Yeah, it's just like breakup.

Nicole [00:38:41]: I love that you keep saying it's giving.

John [00:38:43]: Okay.

Nicole [00:38:44]: I'm here for it. No, I like it. It's just like the third time, you.

John [00:38:48]: Know, that you have to know about me. I'm a basic bit. Okay. I am a basic bitch. I love pumpkin lattes and I know what was the other basic bitch? Dubai chocolate. I. Dubai chocolate pumpkin spice latte.

Nicole [00:39:02]: Yeah.

John [00:39:03]: And it's giving.

Nicole [00:39:04]: I like that it's giving. Okay, I'm not picking on you. I'm being serious.

John [00:39:08]: I'm fine with being a basic bitch. Like, I publicly. I'll wear a T shirt. So. Okay, so he's ignoring her for two days. Like I said, it's not. He's obviously not. So whether she was insecure or whatever to begin with, she's acting super. Well, okay, this actually now I have to say, at this point, when someone doesn't talk to you for two days, you are insecure because why are you still like, like, oh, cuz, like.

Nicole [00:39:38]: Yeah.

John [00:39:38]: And he's like, I'm not sure I want to be with you. And then he gives you silent treatment for two days. You should if you have self respect at that point. Point. Which maybe he's taken some of your. Yeah, but if you have self respect at that point, you're like, okay, I. I hear what you're saying.

Nicole [00:39:53]: Okay. But in her defense, I broken her down to a place where she doesn't have self respect. Because he's like mind controlling her. Not really.

John [00:40:06]: But she's allowing that to happen.

Nicole [00:40:07]: I agree. But I do think though, that she's been broken down by all these other silent treatments before.

John [00:40:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:13]: To such a low anxious place.

John [00:40:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:17]: That now she's like full blown anxious. The type that does stay with people they shouldn't be staying with.

John [00:40:22]: Right. Yeah. I mean, and it's kind of like a, like chicken or egg problem. It's like, you know the end.

Nicole [00:40:29]: Because we did read this before we did it.

John [00:40:31]: I think you weren't supposed to tell people that.

Nicole [00:40:33]: I think he acknowledges that at the end.

John [00:40:38]: But. But it can be also, like, you can understand why he would be annoyed. He's not handling things right. But if she is this kind of person that's always insecure no matter what and has a low self esteem and like constantly needs your validation.

Nicole [00:40:53]: Yeah, but I think that he made it this.

John [00:40:55]: But he's making level.

Nicole [00:40:57]: I don't think she was that level before. I'm sure she was anxious before she admitted that. Yeah, but I think he's caused it to get to critical levels.

John [00:41:05]: But if someone ever says to you, I'm not sure I want to be with you, and then they give you silent treatment for two days and you allow them to, and you're not gone, you're not packed your bags then, then now the problem is you.

Nicole [00:41:17]: Right?

John [00:41:18]: You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, they fucked up and they're stupid and they're a child. Sure.

Nicole [00:41:21]: Right.

John [00:41:21]: But now you, like, you've stuck around.

Nicole [00:41:24]: Yeah.

John [00:41:25]: You're, you're, you're allowing. You just gave them back the pacifier. They're like. And then you're like, okay, fine, you're five years old, but here's the pacifier. Like, yeah, you're giving it back to them. Like, you're like, they. Why, why do they ever get rid of the pacifier? Because you keep on giving it back.

Nicole [00:41:39]: Yeah.

John [00:41:40]: So number three, she says current conflict last weekend at. Well. Oh, hold on. Let's go back up to argument one really quick because I didn't even hit on this, the hungover part. Like, this is why. Also, what are you doing? Are you day drinking that? Or I guess she's hungover for the night. Okay, but still, like, she's obviously out partying without him because he's at work, she's driving hungover. So.

Nicole [00:42:05]: But also over the next day.

John [00:42:06]: Yeah, but don't drink to the point.

Nicole [00:42:07]: Of getting went out together. You don't know that.

John [00:42:10]: I mean, yeah, he's at work. But don't drink to the point that you get hungover.

Nicole [00:42:14]: Most people are hungover the next day, not the same day.

John [00:42:17]: But don't drink. So, okay, current conflict. Last weekend at a festival. Okay. That's why I remember, because we read ahead of this and I'm like, last. When? As soon as I say, see at a festival, I'm like, are you in a relationship?

Nicole [00:42:34]: Didn't they go together?

John [00:42:36]: Yeah, but still, like, okay, I mean, when you use the word festival. Go to a concert.

Nicole [00:42:43]: Couples go to festivals. We are going to a festival.

John [00:42:47]: That's not really. I would call it a concert. I mean, you call it a festival.

Nicole [00:42:50]: Yeah.

John [00:42:50]: Okay, maybe the vocabulary. Maybe. Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:52]: Or Like EDM couples go to that. Like burning me Not.

John [00:42:55]: No, see that's where it's. No, you're not going. No, you don't.

Nicole [00:43:01]: Maybe swing are couples, but they're couples.

John [00:43:03]: They're not couples. That's. You're not in a relationship if you're doing well.

Nicole [00:43:07]: We don't know what festival they're going to.

John [00:43:08]: Okay, but like I said, if you go to.

Nicole [00:43:10]: I would call them. They're going to a festival.

John [00:43:12]: You go into an EDM1 or Burning man, you're not in a relationship. What? You can pretend like you're in a relationship, but you're not in a relationship. I've been to enough.

Nicole [00:43:24]: Oh, you've been to them.

John [00:43:26]: Not in our relationship. You're not in there. Yeah, you're not exactly. Not the two day treatment you break up. But okay, that. I mean, that's a side note. I don't need to, you know.

Nicole [00:43:43]: Yeah.

John [00:43:43]: People cry about their festival divulge, but yeah, but like. Yeah. I jokingly asked start from the beginning. Okay. Current conflict. Last weekend at a festival.

Nicole [00:43:55]: Okay.

John [00:43:56]: I try not to be triggered. Okay. I jokingly asked if he hated a hairstyle I got. He said it was awful to ask and again criticized my self esteem. That that seemed a good cure for someone low self esteem is tell them criticize their self esteem. Okay. That night he left me for a bit and the next day didn't speak to speak to me. On Monday, I texted him at work to check in and he replied with a long text saying that he wasn't sure about the relationship. After I tried to talk, when we got home, we got into a huge argument. After trying to explain my side, he wasn't listening at all and sat on his phone for the entirety of the conversation. I removed the phone from his hand, not violently, and said please will you listen to me. He told me to pack a bag and leave. Threw my keys, slammed doors and said some very hurtful things. However, after this he said he just didn't know what he wanted. I've never seen a Mac like this before. It's now seven days later and he's still mostly silent with me. Some examples, I'll just keep going on because this is all connected. Sleeping in the spare room, not accepting meals. I make him not opening my text, but active in our group chat. Still taking care of our dog and occasionally doing kind things like buying food or making coffee for us. Still has all of our photos, cards and mementos around the house. So I get sir, I'm completely anxious and Feel like I'm walking on eggshells. I don't want to push him while he's still in this headspace.

Nicole [00:45:33]: Push him out the door.

John [00:45:36]: But see, this is why I'm leaning towards him. No self esteem. And it's not entirely his fault, but I also feel stuck because I don't know whether he's done with the relationship or just needs time.

Nicole [00:45:47]: Girl, I'm done for you.

John [00:45:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:50]: This guy.

John [00:45:50]: Mixed signals. Still caring in some ways. Like he made coffee for you, but he's refusing food that you like.

Nicole [00:45:57]: Yeah. What?

John [00:45:58]: Like, what is. There's no mixed signal.

Nicole [00:46:00]: He didn't take the pictures down.

John [00:46:01]: Basically, like you're annoying about that. You're annoying. I don't want to be in this relationship. There's not mixed signal.

Nicole [00:46:09]: Yeah. He's acting like so angry because he's so far done already, but he's just a pansy and can't. I'm not gonna use the other word again, but he is that as well too.

John [00:46:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:19]: He can't leave.

John [00:46:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:21]: And he told you to leave. Are you kidding me?

John [00:46:23]: So mixed signals. Still caring in some ways, but not take. Not talking at all. Are incredibly painful and I feel bad. I mean, like, obviously she's in pain, but she's got no self esteem. It's like the kids on the playground that are ignoring you and like they like, they just go to the, you know, go to the next piece of playground equipment while you're still swinging on the swings.

Nicole [00:46:44]: And you're just swinging watching them.

John [00:46:46]: Yeah. And they didn't. And they told everyone. They're talking to everyone else and like, let's go play on this on the, on the slide and, and they just left you on the swings. They're not mixed signals. You're. You're not like, oh, I think they still want to be my friends. No, they don't want to be your friend.

Nicole [00:47:00]: I mean, but it's not the right way to handle.

John [00:47:02]: No, it's not the way to handle.

Nicole [00:47:03]: But it's, it's also not like, not. It's also not communicating.

John [00:47:06]: It's not a mixed signal. Like it's, it's no signal. Which is a signal. Like it's. They're not being clear. He's not being clear. But at the same time, it's not mixed signals.

Nicole [00:47:17]: He has some sort of resentment towards her.

John [00:47:19]: Oh, yeah. He just, he hates her guts.

Nicole [00:47:20]: Yeah.

John [00:47:21]: He doesn't like her.

Nicole [00:47:22]: The last one was like, obviously his last straw.

John [00:47:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:25]: But like you're going to let a man kick you out of the house.

John [00:47:29]: Well. And. Well, the thing is also like told.

Nicole [00:47:32]: You to pack a bag and go somewhere else.

John [00:47:33]: She obviously has extremely low self esteem.

Nicole [00:47:36]: I think that he caused it though. Like a lot.

John [00:47:38]: Not fully, but he couldn't have at this point because if she's like the way that she's acting now, like seven days of him not talking to her and he said he's not opening her texts and he's active in the group.

Nicole [00:47:51]: Him more than he loves her and.

John [00:47:53]: She'S like, I want to hang on to this in case he, in case he's just unsure about like you don't want to be in the relationship.

Nicole [00:48:01]: Like, I hear what you're saying, but a lot of people do this. I know, but yeah, she's holding on to the good things.

John [00:48:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:09]: And she's not the only one that's done that. Like, yes, she is super anxious.

John [00:48:13]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:14]: She started out anxious. Now she's again at critical levels. And I do think a lot of of that is because of him.

John [00:48:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:21]: But when you're that far in and they're not married, I get that. But they've been together for two and a half years and they're living together like they have a dog.

John [00:48:30]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:48:31]: Like they're. They've established some like seriousness and even though he's messing everything up.

John [00:48:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:41]: She doesn't want to get rid of that. Just kind of like, I'm sure in some degree you also felt it with your previous situation. Like, even though it's not great, you don't. She doesn't want to give up the idea or the fantasy or the like what they could have or could have had when it is good.

John [00:49:03]: Well, let me read her last paragraph to do her justice because I think she said, I'm worried that if I give him space, he might drift further away. But I also don't want to escalate things by pushing for answers. I can't move out right now to give him more space due to our dog and other practical reasons as. As this is my home too. I think this is an avoidant slash anxious clash. How do I navigate this situation?

Nicole [00:49:28]: It is. It's critically avoidant guy and critically anxious woman.

John [00:49:34]: Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, but even like still, like the self esteem thing is still like really.

Nicole [00:49:40]: Right. I think she did have low self.

John [00:49:41]: Esteem at this point and that could be really annoying to a person at that. Like the level of low self esteem that she has is so low that she's willing to accept this kind of behavior. Right, but which could Also be annoying. Like, that's why I think it's like, no, a chicken versus egg problem.

Nicole [00:49:59]: The first two years she didn't talk about all that. She just talked about them living together in these recent ones.

John [00:50:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:50:04]: He could have been slowly chipping away at her self esteem for those two years. And I do think that that's the case on how he's acting.

John [00:50:11]: It has to be.

Nicole [00:50:12]: I get that, yes, he's at his breaking point, I understand that. But I think that she has been pushed so far down the other line.

John [00:50:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:50:21]: And maybe she wants it to go back to how it was before, before she became super insecure. And I think that's the case because she's trying to even convince us through this post that she's like, no one's ever called me negative and I'm so great. Like, I don't understand.

John [00:50:35]: Yeah, that's not the case.

Nicole [00:50:37]: But like, I think that she's trying to be more confidence.

John [00:50:42]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:50:43]: But yeah, he just knocks her down with something else. Why are you people pleasing? And you know, why are you so negative saying you're bad at this sport? Like, she's not really doing right things that are causing him to act this drastic. And again, we don't even know what they're really talking about or how insecure she is or what she's saying. Maybe it is really frustrating. But he's still not handling it.

John [00:51:07]: No, no, he's not handling it well. I'm not in any way well.

Nicole [00:51:09]: And I know you're not, I know you're not. But I, I just think though that, yes, I agree that she does not have the self respect for herself.

John [00:51:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:18]: But I think that she's in the situation that she can't even see that.

John [00:51:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:25]: Because of what all has happened.

John [00:51:27]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:28]: And she doesn't want to give up hope.

John [00:51:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:30]: Like men try to act like women just instantly leave for no good reason. This woman's staying with a man who literally hasn't talked to her in seven days.

John [00:51:38]: But that's more likely the case than unfortunately because it, it activates that response in a woman to, to make her cling more when you push her away more. It's also just human nature, like psychology, so. But it only works on someone with really low self esteem.

Nicole [00:51:57]: Yeah.

John [00:51:58]: Because at some point. Well, because it's like she's also trying to manipulate the situation. Like he's basically telling her, you're annoying, I don't like you. And she's like, well, I don't think that's really True. Or like she's like trying to disprove that or change that situation, but the best way that she could actually change that situation is to actually just have the standard and walk away. I get that, but that means risking losing him. But she's like, well, there must be some way I can fix this without risking losing him. But you can't. When someone is treating you badly and it's because of your low self esteem, the only thing you can do is to demonstrate that you're not going to allow that to happen and risk losing them forever because that's the only thing that can save you, you know?

Nicole [00:52:47]: I agree. Look, when you were reading that I said push him out the door, that's what she should have done.

John [00:52:51]: It's like the. The guy, the hiker that, you know, whatever, the mountain climber that. That fell right in a boulder. Like, you know, remember this story? There was some guy as like, I think a boulder fell on his arm, right? And he's out there in the middle of nowhere. No one even knows he's out there. And he had to use his pocket knife to cut off his own arm.

Nicole [00:53:08]: No, I've never heard that story.

John [00:53:10]: Okay, well, or like a, or a dog or a bear trapped in a bear trap and they chew off their own. Or a rat or whatever, you know, like, you gotta survive. Like that's how you survive. I don't know why I said that.

Nicole [00:53:23]: I don't either.

John [00:53:24]: That they went off of something.

Nicole [00:53:25]: Wow. Gruesome. But yeah, I agree.

John [00:53:29]: No, no, it's connected to something.

Nicole [00:53:31]: Well, she needs to leave.

John [00:53:32]: Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right? Yeah, yeah. So you gotta. You gotta be willing to do what it takes.

Nicole [00:53:39]: I get that, but she's been so manipulated by this guy that she can't think logically. Obviously. And hopefully people in the. The thread gave her the advice to leave. Yeah, because I agree with you, but also I'm telling you right now, you just said in the last episode that it's men response man's responsibility.

John [00:54:00]: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:54:01]: He should have never moved in with that. Because you cannot convince me that he was not annoyed with her six months ago.

John [00:54:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:54:07]: You cannot convince me.

John [00:54:08]: No.

Nicole [00:54:08]: So why the hell did they move in together? Why the hell they get a dog together? Why the hell? I mean, look, and I've done. I made the same mistakes. I've lived with someone else and got a dog with them and it didn't work out and it was messy. So like, I'm. I'm saying this from an experience.

John [00:54:23]: I'm not Even saying anything about him though. Because I don't even need to say anything about him because he's just a dummy. He's just a boy. Like his behavior and what he is so like. Because he doesn't want to be with her, there's not even a relationship. That's why I'm not. I'm just addressing her. Is because there's no relationship, she thinks there's. She thinks there's a relationship when there isn't one.

Nicole [00:54:44]: The men do need to be addressed, especially by a man like you. They need to stop doing this stuff because they do it a lot. They do it a lot.

John [00:54:51]: Okay. Yeah. So if you have a woman that you don't want to be with and is annoying.

Nicole [00:54:54]: Right then because his next step is cheating on her.

John [00:54:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:54:58]: If she stays with him.

John [00:54:59]: Oh yeah, for sure. He's already cheating on her. I'm sure.

Nicole [00:55:01]: I mean, probably because he's so much.

John [00:55:04]: He disappeared at the festival for a little while and came back.

Nicole [00:55:07]: You said that. I didn't think that's what it's.

John [00:55:08]: Right. Didn't she say am I?

Nicole [00:55:10]: No, she said she asked him if she. He liked her hair and he was so offended by that.

John [00:55:15]: Yeah, okay. Oh yeah, I forgot. I jokingly asked if he hated my hairstyle. Like if he hated a hairstyle I got. He said it was awful to ask and again criticize my self esteem. That night he left me for a bit and the next day didn't speak to me that night for a bit. That's. She's in very much.

Nicole [00:55:38]: He went to that one tent and burning man.

John [00:55:40]: Exactly. Yeah. He came. He came back with stains all over his clothes. Like. Yeah, no, she's in denial. There's no relationship. I know.

Nicole [00:55:51]: And Right. I'm not saying you're not right.

John [00:55:54]: But the first step to getting your self esteem is to take stand up for yourself. You had to like. Well, not even. It's not even stand up for yourself in this case. Like it's not even. Because there's not even a relationship. It's just like just picking up yourself and walking away. You don't even need to say anything. Just disappear.

Nicole [00:56:08]: Yeah, well, it's more complicated than that. They live together. They have a dog. I guess you can't do that like a man can. Like you're viewing it from the man. Yeah, she's not going to leave that dog. Yeah, she can't like just leave like financially. Like.

John [00:56:23]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Nicole [00:56:24]: You know, like that's not. I get what you're saying. No, Metaphorically. Yeah. She needs to just be done.

John [00:56:30]: She needs to tell him though. She needs to be like, look, this relationship is over.

Nicole [00:56:34]: Right? She needs to be.

John [00:56:36]: I might living here, but we're not in a relationship anymore.

Nicole [00:56:41]: Right.

John [00:56:42]: Like, once I figure out how to get out of here, I'm gonna be out.

Nicole [00:56:45]: Right?

John [00:56:45]: Right. And I'm gonna take half of this dog.

Nicole [00:56:48]: John gonna get visitation, right?

John [00:56:52]: Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna take full rights of this dog because there's no way he's. He's not ignoring the dog for seven days, dude. He's like, you on the carpet, you're not getting food for seven days. Like, whatever. Like, he's definitely not taking care of the dog. Or if he's treating the dog a lot better than her, then let him keep the dog. And then you.

Nicole [00:57:11]: No, you can't do that.

John [00:57:13]: Okay. Or whatever. But. But she sees you believe he's going.

Nicole [00:57:17]: To take care of the dog if he ignores her.

John [00:57:19]: Right?

Nicole [00:57:19]: You can't leave a dog.

John [00:57:20]: No, he's a. Yeah, he's a dumb.

Nicole [00:57:22]: But.

John [00:57:22]: But no, she just needs to tell him we're broken up.

Nicole [00:57:25]: I agree.

John [00:57:26]: Right. And then figure out your but. Like, actually have a back.

Nicole [00:57:30]: She'll get more confidence being away from him.

John [00:57:32]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:57:33]: And going out there and being with people that actually like her.

John [00:57:37]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:57:38]: Just the kid on the playground.

John [00:57:39]: But she's gonna have to work on the self esteem thing herself.

Nicole [00:57:42]: Right. She can't though, in this relationship.

John [00:57:44]: No, there's no way.

Nicole [00:57:47]: She's like, do you like my hair? And he's like, I can't believe you would ask me that.

John [00:57:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:57:51]: I'm insulted. Like, who acts like that?

John [00:57:53]: Right. But maybe she's pushed him to that point where she's been so insecure. That small thing triggers him. But again, like I said, I'm just saying that, like, his behavior is boys. He should have broken up with her before long before it got to that point.

Nicole [00:58:05]: Right.

John [00:58:05]: But I'm just saying that also, like, she's definitely very insecure.

Nicole [00:58:10]: Yeah.

John [00:58:10]: That she's tolerating this.

Nicole [00:58:12]: Yeah. Girl leave.

John [00:58:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:14]: If you haven't already, like, oh, maybe.

John [00:58:16]: He'Ll change his mind. Or like, no, you're. It's so gone. Like at the point where he's. To your face, you're annoying. Like, basically.

Nicole [00:58:26]: Right.

John [00:58:26]: You know, and then just stop it.

Nicole [00:58:28]: Leaves you and tells you to pack a bag. No.

John [00:58:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:31]: Ignores you for two days. Even the four hours. I mean, I can't really talk that much because, like, I mean, I didn't ignore you. For four hours. But I did try to avoid things.

John [00:58:41]: Yeah, but. But two days, I'll chase you into the bathroom. Be like, no, we're gonna talk.

Nicole [00:58:49]: That's true.

John [00:58:49]: Not in a violent way. Like, I'm gonn down the door. Like, no, like, you can't run away. Yeah, you can't run away from me. Yeah, yeah, you can leave, but you can't run away.

Nicole [00:58:59]: Which it sounds like at the end. She's like, hide. We, you know, hide.

John [00:59:03]: You can't. You can't hide. Like you can, you can be done. You can be done, but you can't hide. Like, you know, we're not gonna.

Nicole [00:59:10]: Yeah, you have to do the thing. But it sounds like she confronted him.

John [00:59:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:14]: And then that blew up. And that should have been the answer for her. Really, honestly there. She's like, tried to talk about it. She's like, please talk to me. And he's like, pack a bag.

John [00:59:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:59:23]: Like, all right. Now I'd be like, no, you pack a bag.

John [00:59:25]: Right. But men can be like her also. Like, there's plenty of guys I coach a lot. They're hanging on like, the woman is like doing all kinds of bad stuff.

Nicole [00:59:34]: Right.

John [00:59:34]: And. And they're just like, allowing it to happen. Right. And then they're like, right.

Nicole [00:59:40]: So that's why I'm trying to talk Right. Earlier about that. I think that she's still hanging on to something in this relationship that was good. She started the beginning of, like, we have this great relationship and I don't think it's a great relationship, but I think there were good parts that she's clinging to.

John [00:59:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:57]: And so, you know, maybe she's like, we can get back there. Even though it's delusional. He's so far in the opposite direction now they can't get back there.

John [01:00:07]: And she's making noise.

Nicole [01:00:08]: Oh, but maybe we can. Like, maybe there's something I can do. She's anxious too. So she's like, maybe I can fix this, but we just need to talk about it.

John [01:00:16]: Right. But. And, but the problem is, like, she can't fix it because. Right. His complaint is, you're too. You have to. You're too insecure. You have too low self esteem. So by waiting around and then. Which he proves his point. It exactly. Like, he doesn't think now she's more. He's not going to come around and be like, oh, actually you're like, the fact that he can ignore her for seven days and she's still around sends him exactly the message that. Which he Needs, which is that. Yeah, she's, you're right, she's super insecure and has low self. So if that annoys you and you don't like it, then like she's doing exactly what he's annoyed by.

Nicole [01:00:54]: Yeah.

John [01:00:55]: Right. So it's like the, the, the answer is to not allow that to happen.

Nicole [01:00:59]: Yeah.

John [01:01:00]: Which means you have to. Which is that's why you can never ever, whether you're a man or a woman, ever take at any point. Like because once you start taking the norm. Yeah. Then it becomes the norm. Right. The very first time someone does. People make mistakes, but you got to be like, this cannot happen. Like you can have a talk there and be like, ah, you know, so, but, but it is hard in this case because of the insecurity. Like, you know, he's not handling the insecurity correctly. That's you know, on him as a man, it's like, you know, so the lesson is as a man, when a woman is insecure, you need to handle it in the proper way or you're going to create a doctor hide. Then you're going to create a monster.

Nicole [01:01:44]: Yeah.

John [01:01:45]: Of insecurity if you don't actually address.

Nicole [01:01:48]: Which is what he's done.

John [01:01:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:50]: That's why she's the way she is. Like, I'm not saying it's not her responsibility. It is.

John [01:01:54]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:55]: You know, but he really did some damage on her. And then now to the point where she has no self respect for herself, but she has to get it. You're right. Like, yeah, he can't. There's nothing he can do to give her the self respect.

John [01:02:08]: Right.

Nicole [01:02:08]: Because if she didn't leave during that current situation that you just explained that he's explaining about him saying all that stuff and acting that way, then I don't know what would be big enough for her to leave.

John [01:02:22]: Right, right.

Nicole [01:02:23]: And not talking to her for a week.

John [01:02:25]: Yeah. And the jokes on. On him because to a degree also as a man, you want a woman that's. That's more so like this, you know, like I think you're right that he pushed her further than. But you want a woman that's gonna be like so dedicated to you that she believes in you no matter what. Right. And even in this.

Nicole [01:02:44]: But it's too deluded.

John [01:02:46]: It's too much. But I mean, I'm just saying like, like, you know, you want that characteristic of. You want a woman to be needy, to be clingy towards you in a good way. Like if you like you don't want to create the negative version of that by pushing her away when she does it.

Nicole [01:03:03]: But that, that's the thing that anger's avoidance. Unfortunately this is very common.

John [01:03:08]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:09]: You know, just an anxious avoidant coupling is almost never going to work.

John [01:03:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:16]: That's why one of them has to be secure or close enough to secure.

John [01:03:20]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:21]: Like this is the classic like.

John [01:03:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:24]: Because it's opposite, like people repelling each other.

John [01:03:27]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:27]: Because the avoidant is repulsed by her anxious behavior. That's what he's doing.

John [01:03:33]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:34]: And she's clinging more because he's pulling away, like you said.

John [01:03:38]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:03:39]: So and then like anything that she does that's clingy or even like even her trying to resolve the situation at this point.

John [01:03:47]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:47]: He's literally wants nothing to do with her, but he doesn't have the balls to actually say that.

John [01:03:52]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:52]: And then she's just like fighting. She's like, I can fix this. I can fix this. Like maybe if I show him how much I love him, he'll turn around. But not when he, if he's doesn't speak to her for two days and then it's turned into seven days.

John [01:04:07]: Yeah. That's.

Nicole [01:04:08]: He's going further down the avoidant path and like that it's just not possible.

John [01:04:13]: Right. Yeah. At that point he just needs to say like not in un. Not in uncertain terms. And maybe it's also that he has told her. Maybe he like the seven day. Like because he, she said that he told her to pack a bag. But maybe he did tell her like we're broken up and she's still like.

Nicole [01:04:33]: I don't know. I think she would have admitted that. Right.

John [01:04:36]: I don't know. It could be like denial of the thing. All right, well, that's it. We're. We'll never know. We're out because we're out of time and we're never going to figure it out anyway.

Nicole [01:04:49]: But yeah, that's true.

John [01:04:51]: But I mean it's only just a lesson anyway to like it is of course how to.

Nicole [01:04:57]: How to go about this or leave a situation.

John [01:04:59]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [01:05:01]: And be a man.

John [01:05:02]: Yeah. Be a man. Yeah.

Nicole [01:05:03]: And women have self respect.

John [01:05:04]: Yeah. Yeah. Don't allow a woman to. I guess that's the biggest thing is for men is don't allow a woman to, to disrespect herself to that degree. That. Or to degrade herself to that degree. Don't allow her to do it if.

Nicole [01:05:18]: You don't want to be with her anymore. Don't even put her in a position where she could.

John [01:05:22]: Right.

Nicole [01:05:22]: Like, make the wrong decision for herself.

John [01:05:25]: Yeah, don't make the decision. Exactly. Don't see someone doing this and. And let them do this to themselves. Further, like, you have to be.

Nicole [01:05:33]: They won't do it if you. If, you know, you don't want to be with somebody.

John [01:05:36]: No, you got to make it. You got to be like, look, I.

Nicole [01:05:38]: Don'T want to be with you.

John [01:05:39]: Yeah. Like, yeah, we're.

Nicole [01:05:40]: No matter what she says.

John [01:05:41]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:05:42]: You made your decision.

John [01:05:43]: Right.

Nicole [01:05:43]: Don't put it on her.

John [01:05:44]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [01:05:45]: Like, you're the man.

John [01:05:46]: That's what I'm saying.

Nicole [01:05:46]: If you don't want to be in this relationship, you tell her right when you're sure. And even if she's like, no, I want to be with you, and she's anxious, like this person.

John [01:05:54]: Yeah. No, don't allow her to grovel and be pathetic, like, to disrespect her, like, don't. As a man, as a gentleman. Don't allow her to do that to herself.

Nicole [01:06:06]: Right.

John [01:06:06]: Tell her, no, it's over. We're done. You know, instead of letting it carry on like that. Because it's not okay to, like, allow, like, you're kind of taking advantage of the feminine in that case. Like, you're allowing her to, like, to do all this stuff because, you know, you're allowing her to. To disrespect herself.

Nicole [01:06:24]: Right, Right.

John [01:06:25]: To this degree. So.

Nicole [01:06:27]: Right.

John [01:06:28]: All right, on that note, if you have a question for us, you know, that you'd like us to debate or whatever, to discuss. Yeah. Just. You can either send us in, you know, you can post on Reddit like they did, or you can. Or you can send us the email directly. I get@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com. yeah.

Nicole [01:06:49]: Yeah, we'll be nice. We weren't not nice.

John [01:06:52]: No, we're not nice.

Nicole [01:06:54]: I mean, we'll be honest.

John [01:06:55]: Yeah, we'll be honest. So. All right, we'll see you next week.