John [00:00:00]: This sick, perverted music that is extremely sexualized. It's disgusting. Like, it doesn't need to be here. There's no place for this. Like, that stuff needs to be shamed. What's the purpose of it? It's disgusting because it leads to all of these downstream effects in society. But the more that I see this, the more that I'm more convinced that the only cure to this thing is when we look down upon that stuff. If you did not have people shaming prostitution, oh, my God, there would be so many women that would be prostitutes.

Nicole [00:00:28]: Yeah.

John [00:00:28]: Like, think about it. Like, we need that. Those kind of things in society. Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

John [00:00:58]: And we're back.

John [00:00:59]: Yeah, and we're. We're. So. We just got a comment that we should. How is this podcast not gone nuclear? It's like. It's like the commenter could read my mind.

John [00:01:08]: Like, yeah, you guys got to help us by sharing and, you know, spreading the word. But we're going to keep. We're going to keep doing what we're doing, so.

John [00:01:18]: Yeah, well, I guess we should just jump right into the story.

John [00:01:21]: You're just excited. Yeah, well, I'm excited, too, because we're going to call some things out that need to be called out.

John [00:01:27]: But so the topic is sort of. It's kind of a mixed bag. It's about what I would call simp culture.

Nicole [00:01:34]: But we'll.

John [00:01:35]: You know, Desperate men is what we'll. We'll call it. But you know, hold on.

John [00:01:38]: You still have your sleep patch on your arm.

John [00:01:41]: Oh, God, I'm being mel. I'm being drugged with melatonin.

John [00:01:46]: I bought these patches off the Internet to see if they work, and they haven't stuck on very well, except John's made it literally to now. It probably would have stayed on.

John [00:01:58]: Amazing. Smells nice.

Nicole [00:02:01]: But.

John [00:02:03]: I didn't even notice that until now. Sorry. Sorry for the interruption.

John [00:02:08]: So, yeah, so basically, like sim culture. We'll discuss only fans. We'll talk about, you know, Dubai and the pay pigs. Pay. Pay pigs. That's the word for it, Pay pigs. Gosh. Yeah, let's. We'll get into all that stuff. So, yeah, where do we start? I mean, maybe we can start with the. With the only fans, because I had some clip, which I should have brought it Up. But there was some clip from the. Whatever podcast, right. Where the woman was talking about. They asked her, they're like, how many guys have paid you or what have they paid you?

John [00:02:44]: They asked her how many sugar daddies.

John [00:02:45]: Oh yeah. How many sugar daddies. Yeah, you tell it, you tell it.

John [00:02:47]: I mean, she said like 30. Well, when she was 19 and she said there were like 30.

John [00:02:52]: She might have been fabricating some of.

John [00:02:54]: That, but she said that the 30 included pay pigs and things like that too. That's. She reminded me what that phrase was. But. And then I don't know how much they talked about after that, but they were just talking about like the sheer amount. Oh, they were talking about how much money she made and it was like they asked her how much she got paid at one time. Like the most she got paid at one time. And it was like $100,000 or something. This a 19 year old with that much money. But also the real concerning thing when I watched that is that this did not start happening when she legally became legal. If she's right. Has that amount at 19.

Nicole [00:03:38]: Right.

John [00:03:38]: And no offense to this woman, but this woman was not a Victoria's Secret model. She was not like where you'd be like, oh wow, she's really hot. You'd be like, she looks like an average woman.

John [00:03:52]: Wait, so it's acceptable if she's a Victoria Secret model?

John [00:03:55]: No, I'm just saying, like. Well, the reason why I'm saying it is because it's crazy that guys are paying a woman that looks like an average woman $30,000 to not even sleep with them just because they want to like gift her money to get. To hopefully sleep with her or that she'll give them some kind of approval or show them a booby pic or whatever that she does.

John [00:04:20]: The pay pig people need money to get degraded by women like that, to get talked down to.

John [00:04:28]: To get.

John [00:04:29]: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's what a pay pig is, is a person that pays a woman to degrade them.

John [00:04:35]: That's the pay pig. Okay, so I was thinking of the, like the Dubai. When women fly to Dubai and then the Arab guys poop in the.

John [00:04:43]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure a pay pig is when. Cause that's why they call them a pay pig. Because it's degrading to call them a pay pig. Yeah, because that's what they're doing.

John [00:04:52]: So they want to get abused by.

John [00:04:55]: Yes.

John [00:04:56]: By attractive women.

John [00:04:58]: Yeah.

John [00:04:58]: Yeah. But it's just. It's just crazy. It just blew my mind. That again, I hate the word simp. You hate the word simp. But this is where I use the word simp. I reserve it for these cases that guys would be so simpy.

John [00:05:11]: I just feel like it's desperate, though.

John [00:05:13]: It is. It's desperate. Deeply desperate to pay. Again, no offense to her, but an average looking woman, right. Thousands of dollars. Like, is this where we're at that guys are that bad?

John [00:05:27]: Yeah, you know what I'm gonna say. And guys might not like to hear it, but it is their fault. And even OnlyFans is their fault. Because again, you've said this in one of the episodes that. And you and I know, and these men know too, that if the tables were turned and they were these women, they'd be profiting just like these women are. And so the best way to prevent these things is for men not to pay for these things. They think it's to try to shun women into not doing onlyfans and all those things like that. And I'm not saying that women should do onlyfans. That's something that's never gonna be wiped off the Internet and has a lot more psychological and implications on your life that you don't even realize that you're doing. Really. Not as deeply as it goes, but if no one was paying for that, it would not exist.

John [00:06:22]: And I agree with you 100%.

Nicole [00:06:24]: Right, right.

John [00:06:26]: It's the same thing. Like in the last episode we were talking about the whole sexual marketplace and giving up sex. And it's like, yeah, if women didn't give up sex so easily, then guys would put more effort into.

Nicole [00:06:37]: Right.

John [00:06:38]: So there's truth to it for sure. The issue with it though is. I mean, there's two issues with it. The biggest issue with it is that there's a certain sub segment of the guys.

Nicole [00:06:50]: Right.

John [00:06:50]: Of the. That again, that I would call simps. Reasonably so in this case that are the ones that are paying for this. That are the one like. Because a normal guy doesn't pay a woman $10,000.

John [00:07:02]: No, but he probably pays for OnlyFans.

John [00:07:04]: Does a normal guy. How. What percentage of guys do you think actually like are subscribed to only fans?

John [00:07:11]: 80%.

John [00:07:12]: You think 80%?

John [00:07:13]: Yeah.

John [00:07:14]: Of guys. That's a. I would wonder what that.

John [00:07:17]: Number subscribe to some sort of sexual content where they're paying at least some amount. I mean, sexual content.

John [00:07:25]: I mean, a lot of sites are free now. So like.

John [00:07:28]: Like, I still think they're probably paying for premium things because sex is very important.

John [00:07:33]: But I mean, it is. I would Say it's only. I mean, onlyfans is the. The primo thing now. So I think we could just say onlyfans. But what percentage of guys. I mean, there's probably a lot of guys that are paying for multiple only fans.

Nicole [00:07:45]: Right.

John [00:07:46]: So they're making up.

John [00:07:46]: Oh, yeah. Because is it by person?

John [00:07:48]: By person? Yeah, it's like. It's like you're like.

John [00:07:52]: You pick your porn star.

John [00:07:54]: Yeah. Like you subscribe to this person who puts out their content. It's like a membership. Like you're part of their membership.

Nicole [00:08:00]: Right.

John [00:08:01]: It's.

John [00:08:01]: Except that it's like if you pay more, you get to see a boop. But if you pay the most, you get to see everything or something.

John [00:08:08]: Something like that. Or them doing sexual acts. And it's porn is what it is.

Nicole [00:08:12]: Right.

John [00:08:13]: So, I mean, I guess we'll say the word corn.

Nicole [00:08:15]: Corn.

John [00:08:16]: I'm pretty sure, like, at this point, I think, like, the AI is smart enough. I mean, we know that AI is smart enough that if you say the word corn, it knows you mean porn. So you have to, like, be really.

John [00:08:27]: But it's like, is this episode going to get.

John [00:08:30]: I don't. I don't think. I don't think so. I don't think.

John [00:08:32]: I think maybe on social media.

John [00:08:34]: Yeah, I think. I think it will. I think the AI now is just looking at the context of the thing, I'm assuming. But anyway, the. It's not like we're getting. We've got nuclear anyway, so once we go nuclear, then we can worry about those. But, but, but. Yeah. I just wonder what the actual number percentage is, because maybe it is. Maybe it is like 80%, but definitely there's a subsegment of men that are encouraging this, that are financing these operations or allowing a girl that's 19 years old. There's a lot of guys out there that are being sugar daddies to this girl. Average girl who's 19 years old. So the problem is that that ruins it for the rest of the men. You know what I mean? It's like if you're a guy.

John [00:09:28]: Ruins what.

John [00:09:29]: Okay, so take our viewers, right? Because none of our viewers are playing, paying for onlyfans.

Nicole [00:09:33]: Right?

John [00:09:34]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:35]: Right.

John [00:09:35]: Hope not.

Nicole [00:09:36]: Right?

John [00:09:36]: So these guys, they're watching this and they're like, well, screw those guys who are making this culture exist, the sim culture, whatever, because they're paying for the only fans. They're paying for all this stuff. They're being sugar daddies and they're ruining it for the rest of us. Now, now These guys are like, all right, and, and rightfully so. I go out and I'm trying to date a girl, but this girl has five sugar daddies. She's, you know, she's got a Rolex, whatever, Louis Vuitton purse, because she's getting all this stuff and she thinks she's hot. She's just an average girl. So now, like, you know, average dude cannot get with average girl because average girl has access to hundreds of thousands of dollars and many worshipers on the.

John [00:10:21]: But a majority of women don't have sugar daddies, Honestly, a majority of them. And you have to ask yourself, if you're going after a girl looks like she has a sugar daddy, why are you going after her? Because she's attractive.

John [00:10:35]: But this was just an average girl. That's why. That's, that's why I pointed out the average.

John [00:10:38]: No, like, you can tell if you went on a date with a girl like that and her tastes, right? And things don't really add up to her age because like, how does a 19 year old have a Louis Vuitton bag or whatever? I mean, I guess she could lie to you and be like, my parents bought it. But she's probably not going to. She's probably gonna be like, I have expensive tastes and I've already been on this trip. And then that tells you all you need to know. But again, it's like, it's. I'm not saying that the women doing these things are doing the right thing.

Nicole [00:11:09]: Right? You're right.

John [00:11:10]: But it's like we're not getting to the root of the problem, which is the people paying for it, right? By trying to shame and shun the person that's benefiting from someone being freely given. That's like someone gifting you something and you like, if it has no strings attached or if it has strings attached that you're okay with, because it's like a huge gift being like, well, why did you take that? Like, yeah, you should still morally not do that. I'm not saying you should morally do that, but you also have to understand, if these men are going after 19 year olds, their frontal lobe is not developed. And you cannot tell me that if you give a teenager a car and be like, well, you just gotta come on some dates with me and maybe go home with me like one time and I'll give you this car. That unless morals have been heavily implied into that child, and even then they could still have heard that their whole life. But make an impulsive decision, you cannot tell me that it's that child, like still technically like a teenager? Yes, they're legal, but their frontal lobe is not developed.

Nicole [00:12:16]: Right.

John [00:12:16]: That it's their responsibility that they were given something by men and men are going to be like, it's her fault.

Nicole [00:12:22]: Right.

John [00:12:23]: Men should be saying that it's these men's fault.

Nicole [00:12:25]: Right.

John [00:12:26]: For giving these things to women that haven't earned it. Like, that's what they complain about.

Nicole [00:12:31]: Right.

John [00:12:31]: But instead of going after the men that are doing this, they're going after the women. And so that's why this problem is not really getting fixed. It's getting worse. Because you're not cutting off the water from the source.

Nicole [00:12:43]: Right, Exactly.

John [00:12:44]: You're pouring the water into this bucket and knocking the bucket over. But then the water keeps coming into the bucket and you have to keep trying to knock down the women that are getting this thing. But there's going to be another woman that comes along to take the stuff from these guys.

John [00:12:57]: Yeah. Because it doesn't matter because. Yeah, exactly. Because someone's going to fulfill the thing. Because these guys are willing, you know, they're customers. They're willing customers.

Nicole [00:13:04]: Right.

John [00:13:05]: So I mean, some people would argue though that men are coming down on men. That's why they're calling them simps.

Nicole [00:13:10]: Right.

John [00:13:10]: They're literally saying simp. Because they're calling the guys that are doing this simp.

Nicole [00:13:14]: Right.

John [00:13:14]: I mean, that's what, what else do you do besides these guys? Besides shame these guys?

Nicole [00:13:18]: Right.

John [00:13:19]: Like, shame is bad, but maybe they need to feel a little bit like this isn't what we do. Like, they need men.

Nicole [00:13:25]: Yeah.

John [00:13:26]: Men's groups to be like, no, like, you don't have to do this anymore. They need like male relationships with men that they trust being like, no, like, like, let's work on like personal development or like going out and meeting women, like Lana said in the last episode, like practicing getting the confidence rather than pouring their money into something that isn't going to give them anything substantial anyway.

Nicole [00:13:54]: Right, Right.

John [00:13:55]: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, they need hope, they need to believe that. But. But it's sort of this, this vicious cycle that happens is because what happens is that you have women that. And even if you're not an only fans, as a woman, you have to realize this, is that a woman that's in her 20s, that's an average looking woman, has an inflated value of herself compared to the men. She has a higher standard for men because she knows she could make money on OnlyFans. So because women are making so much money on onlyfans it inflates the value of the, of. Of women, which is, which seems like, oh good, women should have a higher value of themselves. No, no. Because they're valuing themselves too high in relation to average men. So now they don't want average men. So then these guys have a harder time. So then what do they do when they can't get women? They go to onlyfans and they pay for women.

John [00:14:48]: But I also still think that this is partly a man's problem. I'll tell you why. Because even on this podcast you've talked about how valuable women are in their 20s, right? Women now know that women now want to utilize that in every way possible. And so that's the double edged sword, right? Like you're trying to help women by telling them when they have the most value. And you've even said that they have more the most value.

Nicole [00:15:18]: Right.

John [00:15:19]: As anybody at that age.

Nicole [00:15:21]: Right.

John [00:15:22]: So they know that now and they're utilizing it.

Nicole [00:15:26]: Right?

John [00:15:26]: But then men are upset about it because they're not doing it in the right way. And I get that they're not, you know, settling down and getting married.

Nicole [00:15:35]: Right?

John [00:15:35]: But that's also why too, trying to convince women that their prime is like 10 years even less than that, right. Is not really the best message to give them either. Because now they are hyper aware in some ways and trying to get everything they can. Yes. Capitalize on that. They're trying to get all the money, then they'll settle down. Maybe in 25. Maybe at 25.

Nicole [00:16:03]: Right.

John [00:16:03]: And I get that it's not working out. And I get that that's not the right way to do it. But it's because men have put such an importance on young women sexualizing themselves, right. That they know that they can make the most money doing that, even if it sacrifices things in the long run.

John [00:16:21]: No one had, I didn't have tell them that. They already knew that. They already knew that they, being young and attractive could get the money. So. But my message is a message to them to say don't do that because guess what? You can make all the money in the world when you're in your 20s because you're young and hot, whatever. But you're not going to get a quality guy if you have only fans on your resume.

John [00:16:46]: I'm just saying when you tell women that, that's when they're most valuable.

John [00:16:50]: Yeah.

John [00:16:51]: And they're young and they're hearing that.

John [00:16:52]: But they gotta listen.

John [00:16:53]: All the other stuff goes out.

John [00:16:54]: You gotta listen whole message. Because. Because let Me tell you, if you have only fans on your resume, it's going to hurt you.

John [00:17:00]: Who's that on their resume?

John [00:17:02]: I'm not. Unless you're, I'm saying like it will be discovered. Like you, you cannot think, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, make a bunch of money and then when I get to my 30s or whatever, I'm gonna find a hot, you know, high value, wealthy, good man and settle down and have a. Because he's gonna figure out that you're on onlyfans. He's gonna figure out your paths. Are you gonna lie to him the whole time? Good. Good luck in that relationship. So it's still a bad choice. But you are right that men are responsible for creating the environment, but it's also part of the nature. It's almost like the responsibility really lies in technology that this is possible or available because men. Are you ever going to make it so that men are not. A big percentage of men are not simps. Like, I don't think that's going to happen. Right.

John [00:17:53]: I think they'll go to robots like we talked about.

John [00:17:56]: Yeah, that's.

John [00:17:57]: But I mean sex has always been a way to make money as a woman. I mean, like, look back to the olden days, you know, but like you said now it's, now you don't have to go actually have sex with men now you can just do stuff online and get paid for it.

Nicole [00:18:12]: Right?

John [00:18:12]: So it is more rampant. But it's like even back then if men didn't pay for those services, they probably wouldn't exist.

Nicole [00:18:20]: Right?

John [00:18:21]: And when you're not paying for those services, that's why when things like seeing like an ankle or like a woman's knees, like, whoa, I haven't seen that in a while.

John [00:18:29]: But let me ask you this because see there is also, there's also an element of, of like I do think shaming is, I don't think as a human being, as a person that having toxic shame yourself is a good thing. Right. Obviously having guilt is better than having shame. Like, shame is destructive. However, as society putting shame on certain things is a good thing. Because if you look at it like, okay, this is the issue is prostitution has been available to women forever, can make a ton of money. If you're a good looking woman. As a prostitute, sure, you can make a ton of money, right? Okay now there's a legal issue behind it, but it doesn't even matter really. It's not really enforced very much. And you can go to places even in The US or you could go to Europe for sure. Germany, it's completely legalized, whatever. So you can make money as a prostitute. But why do most women not become prostitutes? It's because it's shamed by society, right? Whereas onlyfans has been propped up and said, oh, that's great, you're making money on onlyfans, right? You know, so it's made it where it is, prostitution. Because the onlyfans, let's not mince words like it is literally prostitution. That's exactly what it is by definition. But it's a form of prostitution that instead of being shamed like normal prostitution has in society has been lifted up as a liberating thing, which. It's sexual slavery. So it's actually deceitful because if you're a woman that is involved in that, you're actually a sex slave. Is what, what you really are because you're in, in the industry, right? You're, you're, you're selling yourself like you're, you're bound to this, right? And you're being used and degraded. So what's the difference between that is that we do need that shame element.

Nicole [00:20:21]: Right?

John [00:20:22]: Again, yes, the men are the buyers, but the men have always been the buyers and the men will always be the buyers.

Nicole [00:20:28]: Right?

John [00:20:28]: And when there is legal prostitution, the men were the buyers. But the, the availability of it is based on how much that particular thing is shamed. And since we don't shame it, we have it run Rampart.

John [00:20:41]: Well, now you're going way in a different way because I think overall as a society, things are getting more sexualized, not less. And that's why you see literal kids wearing clothes that they shouldn't be wearing. I saw a TikTok of Alex Earle is a very popular TikTok girl.

John [00:21:05]: Okay.

John [00:21:06]: And she was in a video with her 12 year old sister, like stepsister and her stepsister was about to go to a, the weekend concert. Like the.

John [00:21:19]: Yeah, the band.

John [00:21:20]: Yeah, yeah. And some of the tops were like tops that I would wear as an adult or something back when I think 12. It was like a little corset with like a, it was like. And then of course, a lot of people, honestly, which was good to see, was like, she's 12, she needs to be a kid. Why is she wearing a top like that? Like, you know, she shouldn't even be going to a weekend concert, like the weekend concert, because that's not appropriate. So a lot of the comments were like that, which was good. But there's also still those People that are like, this is normal. And like, she just wants to be like her older sister. And like, I wore worse than that. It's like we're normalizing, Right. Children dressing more provocatively younger. And then people will be like, stop sexualizing these girls. But it's like you're wearing sexualized clothing and they're not old enough to defend themselves. They're not old enough to, you know, know what they're projecting by wearing these clothes. Because if people are honest, if women are honest, when we wear revealing clothes or we wear provocative clothes.

Nicole [00:22:30]: Yeah.

John [00:22:31]: You know, we're projecting a certain image. And that's fine if you're an adult and that's what you want to project because that's your prerogative. But like, it's, it's happening younger and younger, unfortunately. And it's not the same as it used to be. Like, kids weren't wearing like, sure, we had low rise jeans and things like that that were still, you know, probably not the best, but they were still full blown jeans.

Nicole [00:22:54]: Right, exactly.

John [00:22:55]: It wasn't like butt cheeks hanging out and then full corset tops or see through.

John [00:22:59]: Yeah.

John [00:23:00]: Or lingerie, things like that that you see. And you know, a lot of dress codes are going away, Right. Which, sure. Like some very strict dress codes I get, like not wearing spaghetti straps or your dress has to come to your kneecaps. Like, those are a little bit extreme, I'm not gonna lie. But now we've gone the complete opposite.

Nicole [00:23:20]: Right.

John [00:23:20]: And then now people are shaming people in the wrong way. They're shaming people for trying to sexualize everything when everything has been over sexualized. And so when you say something, people try to shame you into thinking that it's okay. And the difference is sex is okay and it's not a shameful thing.

Nicole [00:23:38]: Right, exactly.

John [00:23:39]: But projecting it in inappropriate places is wrong.

Nicole [00:23:43]: Right, exactly.

John [00:23:44]: It is wrong. And so people, again, it's kind of like what we talked about with like the therapy terms. And we've, we've gone completely on the other extreme and it's messing things up. And that's where this has happened. Like there was sexual repression. Now we're like so far in the extreme of sexual liberation that it's causing pro, like it's causing different problems at this point.

John [00:24:10]: And that's where the, like I said, the shaming element needs to be there, unfortunately, in society to shame people to be like, yeah, this is not appropriate wearing this kind of stuff. But, but I would even argue, and we've talked about this before that, it still does apply to adults because we live in a world where you cannot shield children from the Internet. We live like, you can try as a parent, but even then they're going to get access through their friends. And it's like, even. We've talked about this, about the music too, right? Where it's like, okay, this sick, perverted music that is extremely sexualized. It just. It's disgusting. Like, it doesn't need to be here. There's no place for this. Like, that stuff needs to be shamed. Like, it doesn't. This, you know, even adults wearing, like, ridiculous clothing and outfits, that's highly sexualized. What's the purpose of it? It's disgusting. It's not like it's normalized so much in our head that we don't realize how disgusting it is because it leads to all of these downstream effects in society. And it will. You know, it's downstream that the water that, you know, our children drink that water. You know what I mean? It comes downstream. You're like, oh, this is for adults only. It doesn't matter. It goes down the stream and it. And it goes into children's mouths and they learn that stuff. And it's like, so, you know, to go full tradcon. It's like, yeah, I think the clothing should be. Shame that it should be even adults that you should dress appropriately. You know, Again, this is a 180 from. From what I used to think. But the more that I see this, the more that I'm more convinced that. Just like Lana convinced me at the. In the last episode that it should be three months before you have sex with a. With a guy. As a woman, like, I'm getting more on the conservative, like, you know, side of that, on the. The moral side of it, because. Not because of religion, but because of what you see happening in society. And the only cure to this thing is, is when we look down upon that stuff. We didn't, you know, like I said, with the prostitution. If you did not have people shaming prostitution, if it was not something that was considered a bad profession to be in, was a social disgrace, then, oh, my God, there would be so many women that would be prostitutes. Like, think about it. Like, we need those kind of things in society.

John [00:26:27]: Yeah. I mean, I think that I just finished the Tantra book, and a lot of what it talks about is that us as humans have really lost the core concept of what sex really is. And it's this connection and this spiritual thing, and it's not performing and it's not all these things and, you know, the outfits and the music and even the onlyfans and things like that, it's all performative and it's all these exaggerated, like, hypersexual things that even the root of what sex is is not that at its core, like, we have made it this extreme version. And unfortunately, you know, I was listening to maybe like a song that I listened to when I was, like, young, and it didn't have any sort of innuendos or anything in there. I'm not saying that there weren't bad songs when we were growing up. There were. But also too, you couldn't look up what they meant.

Nicole [00:27:27]: Right.

John [00:27:28]: Your parents wouldn't tell you what those words mean because it wasn't appropriate.

Nicole [00:27:32]: Right.

John [00:27:32]: And so, I mean, we shouldn't have been listening to it at all, but we didn't know what it was. Unlike kids today where they have instant access to the Internet. Even if you lock down the Internet from your kid, they can still go on Google and whatever pops up on the, you know, summary, they can read. And so they're learning about all this stuff. Really. Young kids want to be, you know, older. So they're trying to engage in all this stuff by, like, listening to the music and wearing. Wearing the clothes and, you know, trying to feel like they're older and experiencing those things. Because us as a society, like you said, have allowed these extreme versions to exist. And like you said, I mean, there's always going to be, unfortunately, probably some version of prostitution or things like that. But back even back in the olden days, if you wanted to see that or participate in that, you had to go to the brothel. There weren't people naked on the street being like, come in here. You know what I mean? Like, you went in the broth, you know, you knew where to go and it was contained in there. And they weren't like, you know, going around being like, let's spread this, you know, sexual freedom and like, turn everyone into brothel babes or whatever.

John [00:28:47]: Exactly.

John [00:28:48]: You know, but so it's. It's a delicate balance, though, because sex shouldn't be shamed, right?

John [00:28:55]: Exactly. Yeah.

John [00:28:56]: But it also is a private matter and should not be out in public where it doesn't belong. Because I also saw another video of this girl talking about how she was at the grocery store and this girl was wearing really skimpy outfit to the point where she, like, turned around to talk to somebody and her butt cheeks were on the produce. And she's like, why are your literal bare butt Cheeks on the apples.

John [00:29:22]: Yeah.

John [00:29:23]: And who's. Like, how many butt cheeks have been on those apples? Like, we don't know. But the thing is, at least put.

John [00:29:28]: Them on the peaches.

John [00:29:29]: No, it's like you can't even. The fact that you go to the grocery store and you might see that, like you said. And like, what if you're there with your kids, right?

John [00:29:37]: Yeah.

John [00:29:37]: And then they're seeing somebody walk out like that, and then they're like, mom, why is she not wearing clothes? And then you have to explain that. Or then what if like, you explain it but then later on they're like, well, I want to show off my body, you know, like when they get older and like, you know, things like that. It's like, you shouldn't be ashamed of sex and you shouldn't be ashamed of your body. You should feel confident. But being confident in both sex and your body and how. And those things does not equal showing it to the world and expressing it to the world in that way. Like those, the causation does not equal the, the equation. You know what I mean? Like that's. You don't have to do that in order to show the world that you're sex positive and you love your body, you're confident in your body.

Nicole [00:30:22]: Right.

John [00:30:22]: Like, those things should still be a private matter. And I'm not saying like, you know, be totally covered up and don't show your ankles or things like that, but it's like there is a time and a place. Like if you're going as even like, okay, let's say parents, if you're going to. On a vacation, maybe just you and your husband.

Nicole [00:30:42]: Right.

John [00:30:43]: And it's an adult resort or things like that. Sure. Where are your, like, you know, more sexy outfits? Because you're at an adult resort for your husband.

John [00:30:52]: For your husband. That's the difference.

John [00:30:54]: Yeah, right. It's like in that sort of setting. But if you're going to a kids resort with your kids, you probably shouldn't be wearing a thong. Like, Right. I mean, I get as like a biological parent, your kids have probably seen your body, but at the same time you're, you're exhibiting, right. Like things that your children are gonna follow. You're the role model, you're the example. And so I get too, that people are gonna be like, well, I don't have kids and I'm gonna wear my thong to the pool. But it's like, okay, do you really wanna be the person that is exposing children to those sort of things and knowing how Kids in society today are trying to grow up faster and faster. I mean, 8 year olds want to have skin care routines, so, you know, they're gonna, you're gonna influence them.

John [00:31:41]: And why do you even need to do it? You just need that much attention. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, it's also like, what is wrong with you that you're doing it in the first place? Like, I mean, honestly, like, I know it's, it's not popular to say that, but, but it is true. Like, like, why do you need to, to do that? Like, it is something that I think, you know, to speak to what you said, like in the past, sex itself was shame with the kind of, the Protestant type of viewpoint of like, shameful. Like, like you shouldn't enjoy sex. Like, sex is a, is a taboo thing. And I don't agree with any of that. Like you said, like, sex is beautiful. It's great, it's awesome. It's really designed for the confines of a, of a marriage or serious relationship. That's where it, it shines, that's where it should be. And we've lost sight of that. And so like, shaming it outside of those confines, I think is totally fine. Not shaming the sex itself. And I think that the message was mixed in the past because of the religious undertones. And it still can be because you had kids that were shamed for masturbation and things like that. And it's like, no, like now you're shaming, now you're shaming the whole thing. You're making it seem like God doesn't like sex at all. And then, and that's where that repression came from and the whole liberation movement. But like you said, now we've gone too far. Now we can look at it and say, okay, this, it's still not good. It's still not to be displayed everywhere in the public, like in the sense of like showing it off. It's great between a man and a woman in a committed relationship, especially a marriage, but we have to go to that in order to fix those problems. In fact, it's kind of funny because we saw that TikTok, I think it was of the guy that was like, I think he was joking around. He was like, oh yeah, swimsuits. It's like, it's so weird that, that if you saw someone in their bra, panties, their underwear, you'd in public, in the grocery store, you'd be like, oh my God, right? That's inappropriate. But you go to the beach and now you can wear even less, and that's fine. And what we have to realize is that that seems fine and normal to us, but it's not actually. Like, even the beach, the bathing suits that we wear, it's ridiculous. Like, it's. It's literally the same thing. We've just can. We've just normalized it in our heads in society, and we don't shame it there.

Nicole [00:34:01]: Right.

John [00:34:02]: But. But it's still highly. You know, because we're so sexualized as a society.

Nicole [00:34:07]: Right.

John [00:34:07]: I think that's the key, is that it's sexualized. Right. It's trying to sell sex in a way, even if you're not selling it as a person, like you said, you're selling the idea that you're, like, ready for sex at any moment or something like that. And here's what I mean by that. Because when we went to Greece for our honeymoon, we accidentally wandered onto a nude beach.

John [00:34:30]: Oh, yeah?

Nicole [00:34:31]: Yeah.

John [00:34:31]: And those people are nude, but they're not acting sexual. You know what I mean? And, like, so in America, I feel like it's not even about honoring the naked body or the human form or, like, how your body looks, because that would even come from a more spiritual and, like, innocent place.

John [00:34:54]: Yeah. Like.

John [00:34:55]: Like a more natural place. Because if you go to a nude beach, like, in another country, you'll see what I mean. Like, it's not sexual. Like, these people are naked, right?

John [00:35:04]: Yeah.

John [00:35:04]: Which is what you should be. Only when you're partaking in those things or like, in the shower or something. But they're, like, naked. But they're not, like, doing things on the beach to each other. They're not. They're just, like, hanging out. They're just talking to each other, like, hey, what's up? So it's like it's. That's not even. Like, the problem necessarily is, like, the clothes, like you said, it's like the clothes are more so embodying, like, that sexual energy that's more of, like, the. The more performative and the more like, trying to get attention. Like you said, like the skimpy little things so that people are staring at you rather than, like, you could just go to a nude beach and be nude if you wanted to show off your body. You don't have to wear the skimpy thing. Go to a nude beach. But that's not really. If you ask somebody to be totally honest with you. And they probably won't.

Nicole [00:35:58]: Right?

John [00:35:58]: Exactly.

John [00:35:59]: That's not why they're wearing the skimp bikini.

Nicole [00:36:01]: Right.

John [00:36:01]: Exactly.

John [00:36:02]: Because it's also, as a woman, incredibly easy to get male attention when you sexualize yourself, because that is what they go after. They go after sex. And even if you're wearing something provocative. And I'm not gonna sit here and act like I haven't worn skim clothes. I haven't worn, like, see through stuff to the, to the club or whatever. My butt cheeks haven't been on the apples.

Nicole [00:36:25]: Right.

John [00:36:25]: But I'm not gonna sit here and act like I haven't done this.

Nicole [00:36:27]: Right.

John [00:36:28]: But I'm also coming from a place of I have done this. And I realized that's not the way to do. And it is the cheap version. It is the easy way to get a man to be interested in you.

John [00:36:38]: Sure.

John [00:36:39]: But then you're also sending him mixed signals when you're like, no, I don't want that. But then you're like, you're using your sexual energy to pull him in, but you don't want to give him what he wants. And like, it's again, like I said, it's kind of the easy way out. And it's the easy way to get attention from men because as women, you know what men want, right? And. But then women get upset when they do that. And then they're like, why doesn't he like me for who I am?

Nicole [00:37:07]: Exactly.

John [00:37:08]: Because it's like you did, like, portray that. And so you can't even get upset with a man if he's oogling you when you're wearing sexual things because you are projecting that energy. And if you are gonna do that and you don't want those advances, you have to be the type of woman to be like, no, I'm not interested in that. And I mean that. He still might be confused, but you have to stand up for yourself in that instance. But really, if you want somebody, like, authentically for who you are and have a genuine connection, then you should keep in mind to not over sexualize yourself because you're not really giving off that. You're giving off, like, give me the attention, like, here's my body, things like that. And again, I have done the easy way out to get male attention. But that's also why I'm coming here and saying that it's not the correct way to do it and it doesn't make you feel better. Like, because really, if you love your body so much, your validation of how you look and how your body looks should be what matters the most, rather than wearing things to get other people's approval.

John [00:38:17]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:38:18]: Yeah.

John [00:38:18]: And it's I mean, it's good. Like, like you said, most, most women will not admit that.

John [00:38:23]: No, I don't.

John [00:38:23]: But it's true. But you know it because, you know that's. Yeah, but. And there's nothing, like, wrong with admitting like that. It's obvious. But. But it's not. But now you can see why it doesn't make sense to do it. And I think that's, that's, that's the key thing about. It's like if you, if you made a movie, right, and you made the movie trailer, and the movie trailer was just a bunch of butts and boobs, right? And then someone watches the movie and then you're like, well, what was your favorite part of the movie? What did you like? And they're like, oh, yeah, all the butts and boobs. And you're like, well, what about the story? Like, you didn't like the story. It's like, well, you advertised it as butts and boobs. That's what they came for. That's what they liked. That's what they watched. And now you're upset they didn't like the story. Like, you can't advertise the one. Like, advertise the thing that you want them to like, you know, and that's the thing is like, I mean, and we, we always try to tell our daughter this because it's a hard message for young, young people to understand, is that it doesn't matter if you're trying to attract this attention or not, but if you sexualize yourself, you're going to attract the people that. That's the primary thing they're going to value for. Because that's the thing you advertised, right? Whether you try to or not, like, advertise the thing that you want people to like. Just like when I'm selling my product, right, I advertise what it is. I don't advertise something that I think that they want. And then when they get in, it's totally different. That wouldn't. They would. Everyone would want a refund because they'd be like, this is not what you're. What you were selling. But, but, but it's become so normalized in society and we have been like, oh, don't shame anyone. And again, I'm not saying, like, shame people in a way that's like being bullying and mean to people. But. But when I say shame, I think what I'm talking more about is being like, oh, that's for something to not be acceptable, to disapprove of things. Right. To disapprove is like, oh, that's. Yeah, I'm not encouraging that. That's disgusting. That's not. You know, don't you have more value for yourself? Like, I don't. I don't appreciate that. Like, I don't want to see that. Like, that. That kind of thing where, if that happened, then people wouldn't. Like the lady that you said in the grocery store where she's got her butt cheeks on the produce, right? If everyone in the grocery stor. Or was like, if, as a society we're like, ew, that's. No, I don't. I don't want to see that. Like, please, you know, cover up or. And every person that walked by said that you think that person's going to keep on going in skimpy outfits to the grocery store? They're not going to do it. You don't have to be mean to them and bully them. But if you express the disapproval and everyone's doing that, the person's going to stop doing the behavior because it's not going to be worth it.

John [00:41:06]: I think that's a good concept. But I think, honestly, society is more defiant than ever. And so I think normally you'd be correct. But I'm honestly not that sure if people saying it in the grocery store to the person would stop them or not or make them do it more. Because you know how people act these days, and you tell somebody not to do something, you're like. You're like, oh, that's okay.

John [00:41:31]: But there's sheep pretending to be different, but it's a whole flock of those sheep. The reason why they might, like, do it more would be because they have the support of other people that are encouraging them. If they lost that, they're not going to do it.

John [00:41:45]: I think that relies a lot, though, on getting a lot of people on board, which, like.

John [00:41:51]: But these shifts happen little by little.

John [00:41:52]: People are getting more on board, especially with, like I said, with, like, the underage girls wearing and listening to things that aren't appropriate and allowing them to be children while they're still children and things like that. I think that's very important because, you know, when they're old enough, they can go out and do whatever they want. But, you know, as a society, adults now, if you're gonna be around children in a public place or even, like, going to your family reunion or something, you should, in that moment, try to be responsible and a good role model. Like, yes, those kids are not your responsibility. But I feel like, again, as A society we're so individualized that we don't give a about people anymore.

John [00:42:39]: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

John [00:42:40]: I say we, but I know that you and I don't. We actually do give a about people. That's why we're sitting here. But like, people are so individualized that they're like, well, that's not my kids.

Nicole [00:42:49]: Right.

John [00:42:49]: It's like, okay, yeah, you're right. But don't you want to still be a positive role model? Because you're gonna be one either way. You're either going to be a role model of my butt cheeks are on the apples or, you know, looking like a nice adult walking around the store.

John [00:43:07]: Let me ask you a question, though, because it's funny that you said that that's not my kids.

Nicole [00:43:10]: Right.

John [00:43:11]: And that people will do that in front of kids because they don't care. But guess who they won't do it in front of? Your granny. You know what I'm saying? This is why. But why? Because granny is gonna shame you. Granny's gonna be like, get out of here. You know what I'm saying? Like, the same people that would walk around in skimpy clothing that's totally inappropriate in front of children would not walk around in front of granny and someone else's granny. Yeah, because I mean, as much as like, like I'm saying, don't bully people. Don't, like, be mean to people about it, but they won't do it because every granny in there is going to shame them and, like, going to wave their finger and be like, whatever. And they don't want to deal with it, but they'll do it in front of children. And so if you won't do it in front of grandma, you shouldn't do it in front of children. That's my rule.

John [00:44:02]: Yeah, well, if there's a place where you wouldn't do it, then it's probably not a good idea. And again, I'm not saying that if you're at, like an all adults place or things where there's only adults.

Nicole [00:44:12]: Right.

John [00:44:13]: You can wear whatever you want, in.

John [00:44:15]: My opinion, for your partner is what I would say.

John [00:44:19]: Yeah, but I mean, like, if you're single or whatever, if you want to sexualize yourself, I have no problem. But you have to know what you're doing. You can't act like you don't know what you're doing.

Nicole [00:44:28]: Right.

John [00:44:29]: But it's different when you go into public places where now you're wearing things that aren't appropriate. I mean, people have been talking about the gym clothes and stuff that women are wearing as well.

John [00:44:39]: It's getting crazy.

John [00:44:40]: Like you're ridiculous. Your whole butt cheeks are on the apples and on all the equipment. So it's like, yeah, like again, I'm not saying that women shouldn't appreciate their bodies and feel confident in their bodies, but that does not equal showing off the body in that way. Like you can still wear even. Like, I don't even necessarily have a problem with crop tops. I have a problem with crop tops on young kids before they're like, you know, at an age where they understand, you know, what's going on. But I'm not saying that crop tops or whatever like that you can't wear form fitting things to like show off your figure. I'm not saying, yeah, those sort of things. But I'm saying that you should think about it and think about what's appropriate. Not because you're living for other people, but because morally, like you're not going to contribute to the narrative of perpetuating something that even if you're like, oh, I'm sexually liberated, like you are projecting that onto everyone around you when you wear it to a public place like a grocery store and that includes kids and grannies and, you know, other impressionable people and it's not your responsibility. But I feel like like as human beings, we again have become so individualized and only care about ourselves and that's not how we were wired. We were wired for community and people will be like, oh, well, this is normal now. No, it's only normal because people have allowed it to be normal. Like you said, it's normalized. It's not normal, it's normalized.

Nicole [00:46:12]: Exactly.

John [00:46:13]: Well, and it's also for your own, like even if you don't want to contribute to society, it is for your own edification as well, right? Because when you are doing those things, you are sexualizing yourself, which is to some degree degrading yourself. You are like making your value in your image, right? Like you're getting attention for the things that you shouldn't train yourself to get attention for. That's going to harm your esteem, right? Because you're not always going to have that body. You're not always going to look the way that you look. And so if your esteem is built completely on other people's validation attention of you based on a physical attribute, what are you doing to yourself, right? So that's the thing is it's not just, that's why, you know, it's, it's not just like yeah, it's deeper. Like all of this stuff, even the music that you're listening to or that you're creating, it's like, you know, music is very powerful. You listen to something over and over again. It is, it is reinforcing things in your mind. Are you sending yourself a good message that is going to be helpful to your future self and who you want to be as a person? Are you sending yourself a message that you're like, oh, oh, I just like the sound of it. Yeah, but it's, it's brainwashing you to sexualize yourself or to desensitize yourself against sexual violence done to other people. Because a lot of the music is actual sexual violence. When you really think about what's happening and what they're really saying or degrading people or, you know, or treating sex as a very light thing or casual thing, or treating people as casual things, you know, it's like, yeah, these are the things that we are filling our own minds with that we're doing to ourselves and harming ourselves so that, so that. I mean, I think even if you have a selfish motive, fine. And that's what I always try to, you know, because when I try to preach to guys on my YouTube channel and stuff, I'm always like, I'm not going to give you a moralistic, bible thumping viewpoint. I'm going to give you a selfish viewpoint. Because everything that I'm saying about being a good person or fixing yourself up or not doing these things or doing these things, it's all about, it's all about improving yourself for yourself because these things are destructive to you. And that's, you know, it sounds like a preacher, but I have no religious affiliation. I'm just saying, like, these are common sense things that you, that the end of the road will lead to you harming yourself by doing these things.

John [00:48:36]: And there's other ways to use your sexual energy. Like, you know, you don't have to wear revealing clothing and get validation from other people. Like, you know, I go to madhouse and you know, that's like all women using their sexual energy and together not out like at the club, which like, you know, a lot of people think that it's like, you know, go out to the club and like wear your revealing outfits and like you can go to a sexy dance class and get that feminine like feel good energy, right? And then come home and use it for your partner. Or even if you don't have a partner, like make again like in the tantra book, you can have an intimate time even with yourself at home. Yeah, you kind of cheapen stuff like that. And only fans cheapens it. And all of these things cheapen it, right? When it's sexual energy and the sexual experience is such a beautiful and sacred thing. And again, it's about connection. It's connecting with your partner. If you don't have a partner, it's connecting with yourself and you can still use that energy and you can dress up at home in your lingerie and do whatever you want. And so like, it's. We're not saying that you can't do these things, right? We're just saying that it's a time and a place and that has gone completely out the window. And I do think things like only fans and, you know, women being paid these things, these insane amount of money to like do the bare minimum that these men are just giving them things. And like society trying to overcorrect the sexual repression with this sexual liberation that isn't even actually liberating. Because I genuinely don't think people genuinely feel better when they act in these extreme ways or they're wearing these things. Because in a way, you know that the attention you're getting is cheap. You know that it's not for who you are, it's for your outward appearance, like you said. And you shouldn't rely on that. Like, that's not to say that you can't embrace and have confidence and appreciate how your body looks right now or how you look right now, your youth or any of those things. But when you're using that as the only thing that drives you forward, that's when you create a problem and that's when you feel empty. That's when you feel like a shell of who you actually are. Because people aren't getting deep enough. They're only surface level. And again, I feel like that also kind of ties into a little bit where men, even though they are sexual, when they don't want to settle down and they don't, you know, they just want to have multiple partners and be. What would you call it, Like a bachelor or whatever, they're still not even fulfilled because it's still surface level. They're not getting and they're having sex.

Nicole [00:51:26]: Right.

John [00:51:26]: So that just proves to you that there is a version of sex that is surface level. And that usually is the performative versions that people are used to. I mean, even in their relationships, even if they're not looking at onlyfans or porn or any of those things. Yeah, that is very performative. They don't even realize that in their own sexual lives they're performing.

Nicole [00:51:49]: Right, Exactly.

John [00:51:49]: Yeah.

John [00:51:50]: And so I mean I recommend reading the Tantra book. People might think it's woo woo, but it. No, it makes a lot of sense at its core. When you read the book. I don't know the author of the.

John [00:52:02]: Book, but yeah, I can't remember.

John [00:52:04]: It's a woman. We'll have to put that in.

John [00:52:06]: It was a name that was ambiguous because I was like, is this a woman or a man?

John [00:52:09]: I think it was a woman. She said she's a woman in the beginning of the book. But again it's like we're kind of cheapening these experience in our lives and we don't even realize it. And that's why we just have to sexualize ourselves more and more because it doesn't feel enough. We're like, well why don't I feel good about myself? People are looking at me, they're looking at my body. My body looks good, right? Guys are giving me attention. Why don't I feel good? Why do I keep need to wearing wear these things?

Nicole [00:52:40]: Right.

John [00:52:40]: Because it's the external validation which is the a con. It's like a, a pit that can never be filled. Yeah, it's a never ending, a bottomless, bottomless pit. That's what it is. Because you can never feel that, that filling in yourself with external validation. And it's even like, you know just the point on what you said with the onlyfans because I want to bring this back to that, that is self destructive to the women that are doing onlyfans which they might not believe it because they're getting paid and they're like oh well men are paying for this. It's not really harming me. Like I'm making a lot of money. Well let me ask you this question, right? Would you, would you say that if you gave a 22 year old, let's just say just a regular 22 year old a million dollars, would you spoil them? Would it be harm like if you're, if you're a billionaire, would it be wise of you to just pick a random 22 year old and give them a million dollars or two million dollars? Would you be like oh I'm enriching their life, I make their life better. Or would you be destro.

John [00:53:41]: Right?

John [00:53:41]: Yeah, you, you like any reasonable person understands what spoiling is and we don't spoil children. Every, almost every person that's for only fans is probably against spoiling children. What's the, the point of Spoiling is when you have something that's easily given to you without much effort. And I'm not saying that that only fans, girls don't do any effort, but relative to the value which they receive, it is not much effort. It's called spoiling. And it's destructive to a person because it loses their sense of worth and their sense of hard work or work ethic or the value of putting effort into things.

Nicole [00:54:23]: Right.

John [00:54:23]: That's why we don't spoil children. We don't want them to be entitled or to take things for granted or not understand the value of money or work ethic and all these things. And so aside from the sexual implications of doing that, of selling yourself and your body and creating all of the value that you have in yourself in something that is a sexual thing, not your actual person and being used by people, aside from those parts of it, just the monetary aspect of it alone is self destructive to the person. It might seem like, oh, it's great, I'm making all this money. Yeah. But it's not about money doesn't solve problems we don't like. If we throw a bunch of money at a person, it does not make their life necessarily better.

Nicole [00:55:10]: Right.

John [00:55:10]: It could help them in certain situations, but it's more likely that money will destroy that person if. Unless they have earned that money. Unless they have, have created, you know, built that up through hard work.

John [00:55:24]: Yeah, it's not sustainable either.

John [00:55:26]: No.

John [00:55:27]: And like what if you want to get out of it? That's still there, you know, on the Internet, like even if you delete your account or however OnlyFans works, people still have those images or the videos or whatever.

John [00:55:42]: Yeah, they download them.

Nicole [00:55:43]: Yeah.

John [00:55:43]: Like you don't really have the security if you're building something that you can't sustain for. It's not a career when it only lasts long enough and then the next crop of 22 year olds comes in and you know, how does that make you feel as a woman? I feel like, yeah, you might be like, I got a lot of money, like you said, wow, I made a million dollars. Like, you know, I saved it up, whatever. But do you really feel good that you invested that time in something that you can't continue to do.

Nicole [00:56:15]: Right.

John [00:56:16]: Because of how the market works and how men work. And you know, it's, it's just like, it's not something that I think that women should even really get involved in unless they want to continue sex work long term. But again, like I said, that's hard to do. Like realistically, it's just hard to do. But, you know, I think that the most damaging part, again, in all of this is that it's being portrayed to younger and younger women. And it's creating more and more over sexually, over sexualization in society that people are calling normal. But it's not. It's just normalized. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse. And I think as a society, we at this point need to take the reins, like you said, and be like, no, this isn't okay. And I have seen some of that. I'm not saying that it hasn't been happening.

John [00:57:14]: No, no.

John [00:57:15]: But I think that hopefully, like you said, the pendulum is swinging back more towards in the middle. Cause we don't need to be way over here either. We need to be in the middle where you do things that are appropriate, where it's appropriate, and you don't do things where it's not appropriate. It's as easy as that. It's not trying to suppress people sexually. It's not trying to make them dress in turtlenecks and long sleeves. Like, that's not what we're saying here. And I know it can still be misconstrued, but I hope we are making sense. Because when you think about it logically and you understand what we're saying, it makes sense. And it's what will help everyone, including the future generations, because they already have enough stuff that they're gonna have to worry about. Let's not put them in a position where kids, younger and younger are over sexualizing themselves. And you know, as women, we're so afraid to be sexually assaulted and things like that. And I'm not saying what you wear causes those things to happen.

Nicole [00:58:26]: Right?

John [00:58:27]: But if at younger and younger age, they're being exposed to things like that and they're thinking about things that like that, that they shouldn't even be thinking about. Now we're also creating a fear, younger of. Of girls being afraid to be sexually assaulted. And so we think that we're trying to prevent that from happening because we're putting it out there, like, we're not gonna allow this to happen, or we need to stop sexual assaults from happening. But now, since kids are being sexualized at such a younger and younger age, now younger and younger kids are afraid of being sexually assaulted. Normally they were still playing with their game, their dolls or whatever, like video games, and not worried about any of that stuff. But now it's like, if your kids are going to, like, a inappropriate concert and wearing inappropriate things now you have to be even more concerned that they're going to attract the attention.

Nicole [00:59:26]: Right.

John [00:59:27]: Because as an adult, you know that if you wore an outfit like that, you would attract male attention. And you think men should just know that that's not okay. And I get that. I get that you're like, men should know this is not okay. This is a man's problem. Yes, it is. But you can't control those people.

John [00:59:43]: Exactly.

John [00:59:44]: You can only control what your kids are wearing and that it's appropriate and that you're gonna be there to protect them. But it's still not a good idea to allow your kids to wear these things even if you're there to protect them, where they're still gonna be ogled or potentially have people that are taking pictures of them that you can' that or things like that. And you don't know what they're going to use those pictures for.

Nicole [01:00:08]: Right.

John [01:00:08]: So I just wanted to bring that up because a lot of people are like, well, why are you sexualizing kids? Like, it's the same way where if you saw butts on apple, you're not sexualizing that person. Their butt is just on an apple.

John [01:00:22]: Right, Exactly.

John [01:00:22]: And you're going to look at a butt that's out. Like you said, the guy said, if someone walked in in their underwear, right. You'd be like, what the heck? It's not like you're sexualizing them. You're being like, like you're barely wearing clothes.

John [01:00:34]: And it's also confusing because you've got, let's say, you know, 14, 15, 16 year olds dressing like adult women, wearing makeup like adult women. How is even a guy supposed to know? Like you're supposed to be a, like a detective to like a guy looking at a girl cannot tell some girls if they are 19 or they're 15 or sometimes younger because of the way that they're dressing in the makeup tutorials and all of this stuff today. Like, that's what I'm saying is like, you can't even, you know, even blame some guy. Now, obviously, like assault and things like that. That's a totally different. But what I'm saying is that you. How, how, how would a guy even know a guy in his 20s, how does he know that a girl is 15? He doesn't know that. Not, you know, I mean, there's sometimes it's obvious, but the way that a lot of, of a lot of parents are letting their children dress, they're not even going to know. And plus the other, you know, side to this Is because this is always the big argument is it's like, well, yeah, women wearing skimpy clothes is not a excuse for men to assault them. 100% true, 100% agree. But also, if I am going to a poor country that has high crime, I'm not wearing bling on my hands. Now, if someone robs me, is it my fault? It's not my fault. Like, they still committed a crime. But am I stupid? Yes, I'm stupid because I made it more likely that someone would do something bad to me because I can't control that element. What I can control is being smart in those environments. You know what I'm saying? And so again, it's not to say that you blame the victim, but at the same time, the victim can also be stupid, and it not be their fault, but they can still be stupid. You know what I'm saying? And so if you know that an environment is such that that a certain clothing would make you more likely to become a victim, and then you disregard that because you're like, I can do whatever I want. And then you become a victim. Yes, you are still a victim. Yes, I still have empathy for you, because no one should do that to you. But at the same time, you're stupid. And that. That I don't have empathy for you being stupid. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like that. That's the thing that. That I don't understand why people don't understand this, because it. It makes so much logical sense. But for some reason, we want to control the entire world. We want to think just because things should be a way that. That they. That we can do whatever we want. And if we have consequences for them, then it's. It's everyone else's fault but our own. Because we want it to be this idealistic version that we have in our head. But it doesn't work that way.

John [01:03:21]: It's not somebody's fault for being sexually assaulted. But like we talked about, you are gonna get more attention if you're wearing revealing clothing. And then the attention can lead to boldness. Because again, we talked about men. We know that men want sex. We know that that is a high motivator for them. And if you're wearing sexualized clothes, it's not an invitation. No, but it makes men feel like you are somebody that would be open to that. And that is assuming. I'm not saying that that is guaranteed, but to what you're saying is if you're wearing sexualized clothing, you're gonna get more attention, and you are potentially going to be put in that situation that you don't want to be put in because you're inviting the attention more so than if you wore just some normal clothes. And I know that sexual assault and things like that happen in normal clothes.

John [01:04:16]: Sure, yeah.

John [01:04:17]: And it might even be just as much as the sexualized clothes. But again, that goes back to.

John [01:04:21]: No, no, it might not be just as much. There's no way. It's just as much. Like, logically, it wouldn't make any sense.

John [01:04:25]: I don't know. The actual.

John [01:04:26]: It doesn't logically make any sense, though. Like, let's be honest, it doesn't logically make any sense.

John [01:04:30]: Well, I'm just saying, because I don't know the actual statistics. But to what you're saying about wearing jewelry in a place where it's more likely that you would be robbed because of that, you could still get robbed if you have no jewelry.

John [01:04:41]: For sure.

Nicole [01:04:41]: You could.

John [01:04:41]: Yeah.

John [01:04:42]: So it's like you don't know what's gonna happen. And I'm not saying that even dressing in normal clothes is gonna save you from that happening. There's other things, like being aware and things like that too. But that's why going back where, if you're gonna wear those sort of clothes, you also have to be able to stand up for yourself because you are gonna get more attention and you are potentially gonna have men approaching you more, and they are going to have that in mind because that is the vibe that you're putting off, and you have to be able to defend yourself against those things.

Nicole [01:05:12]: Right.

John [01:05:13]: So it's. It's a. A big, complicated web. And I'm sure that people will misunderstand.

John [01:05:20]: What we're saying, of course, but. But, but it's an intentional misunderstanding, right? Because. Because it's very clear that that's. That's what like, I'm saying is like, full context. It's very, very clear what we're saying. And people are afraid to say what we're saying because people miss. They intentionally misunderstand it. But enough of that. Like, this is the truth. This is the reality. Like, it's purely factual. There's like, it's. It's not. You know, it can be twisted, but twisting it is an intentional thing. So I mean, I'm tired of people doing that. And then it's like, okay, well, you can't say anything about it. No, that's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. That's how you silence people because you don't like what they're saying we also.

John [01:06:04]: Need to say to men though, that this is not okay. Of course that is true. That they're the ones actually doing this action. And so we can't end this episode without talking to men directly and that they need to know it's not okay. They need to hold their friends accountable if their friends are acting this way and be like, no, you shouldn't be doing those things. Like, I'm not saying they can't approach a woman.

Nicole [01:06:30]: Right.

John [01:06:30]: But. But they should not be sexually assaulting women or being overly pushy in a way where they're like inappropriately touching a woman.

Nicole [01:06:39]: Right.

John [01:06:40]: Like without talking to her and you know, figuring out if that's really the vibe that she's putting out. Because again, if a woman's putting out that vibe, but that's not what she wants, she needs to be like, no, that's not okay. I'm not saying that even if she doesn't say no, that that means you can just stick your hand down her pants or whatever.

Nicole [01:06:57]: Right.

John [01:06:57]: But I'm saying though, that men also need to hold other men accountable with a lot of this, this stuff too. Because a lot of times that is where men can stop a lot of this from happening.

John [01:07:07]: But does, does anyone even think that that is even reasonable? Do. Are there men out there that think like sexual assault is okay or that encouraging other men to do it is okay? The people who do it are the people that you're. That it doesn't matter that those are the people you have to protect yourself from. That it doesn't matter what you say, they don't care. And that's why that just like if you went to a poor country that had a high incidence of burglaries or assaults that you should not wear flashy jewelry because those people that are criminals, they don't care. They don't care if it's right, they don't care if it's wrong.

John [01:07:45]: I agree with you.

John [01:07:45]: So the message is falling on the wrong.

John [01:07:47]: Men talk about that stuff sometimes.

John [01:07:49]: Yeah.

John [01:07:49]: And they act like, haha, guess what I did.

John [01:07:51]: Yeah, I guess that's true.

John [01:07:52]: They do need to say something like, because then now you're responsible in some way. If you know, if your friend told you what they did and you're. You don't say anything.

John [01:08:02]: Yeah, that I would agree with.

John [01:08:03]: That's not okay. Because I guarantee you that there's probably a good amount of men who have men in their friend group who do sexually assault people. And they might not know about it, but they also might have heard some things that are concerning and then they just turned a blind eye.

John [01:08:20]: I guess that. I guess it's possible.

John [01:08:21]: So, like, possible men do need to hold other men accountable.

John [01:08:26]: I guess that's possible. Yeah, that makes sense.

Nicole [01:08:28]: Sense.

John [01:08:28]: I just. I just would never associate with anyone like that. So it's. It's beyond my.

John [01:08:33]: And I mean, they might not talk about it and they, you know, so you might not know.

John [01:08:39]: Yeah.

John [01:08:39]: But I'm saying that if you see it as a man, even if you don't know that man and you see it happening, I feel like you should step in.

John [01:08:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:08:46]: Yeah.

John [01:08:47]: And if you definitely hear somebody talking about it, you should say something for sure. Because if we're gonna shame women for the things that they're doing, these men that are doing the thing.

John [01:08:58]: Yeah.

John [01:08:59]: Obviously a thousand percent be not shame.

John [01:09:02]: They should be prosecuted.

John [01:09:03]: Right, Exactly. Yeah, they should be arrested. But I'm saying, though, that, like, rat.

John [01:09:06]: Your friend out for sure.

John [01:09:07]: If more men are like, that's not okay. That, like. And even talking about it in passing, like, if a guy friend makes like a crude joke that, like, insinuates something like that being like, that's not cool. Why would you say that? Yeah, that's like, men should be doing that stuff too.

Nicole [01:09:23]: Yeah.

John [01:09:23]: So that hopefully it's preventing.

Nicole [01:09:26]: Right.

John [01:09:26]: Things from getting further because again, it's. Yes, the clothes can make you more approachable and more vulnerable to those situations, but we can't sit here and act like that. Men, or even women, if they have the opportunity, shouldn't be telling the men that are doing these things or joking about it that this is not okay.

Nicole [01:09:44]: Right.

John [01:09:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:45]: Yeah.

John [01:09:46]: So.

Nicole [01:09:47]: All right.

John [01:09:48]: Well, somehow we went over. But we're at 69, so that's okay.

John [01:09:54]: Oh, my God.

John [01:09:56]: I guess we could do our. Our week.

John [01:09:58]: Yeah, we do have one.

John [01:10:00]: Yeah, I. I screwed up. I was in the. I don't know if I was on drugs or what it was, but I just.

John [01:10:07]: Were you on drugs?

John [01:10:08]: No, I wasn't actually on drugs. I wish I could blame it on drugs, but I just went off on some stupid topic. Social media type of topic. We won't even dig into social media topic what it was, because it's just stupid and don't need to spark a debate through our audience. But just, I don't know, lack of sleep. Just so I was getting upset and not acting very nice and yelling and like, not to, like in the extreme, but, like, to.

John [01:10:39]: Enough to choke on.

John [01:10:41]: Yeah. To choke on the ground that I was.

John [01:10:45]: Yeah.

John [01:10:45]: As I breathed it in, but I guess just under a lot of stress. So I owe you an apology, which I've already given the apology, but an on air apology. So I apologize for my ridiculous behavior. 100. My fault.

John [01:10:58]: So, I mean, it all led to, you know, progress anyway too, because we talked about, you know, some stuff, how I felt, you know, in the way that you were reacting and things like that. And so it was good for that and good that I was able to tell you that because it had happened in the past a little bit as well too. And again, it's not something that I wanted to continue in a pattern. Cause it was really hurtful, you know, and so I appreciate you apologizing and I know that I had offended you with some of the things that I said and that wasn't my intention. And I apologize for offending you as well.

John [01:11:47]: Yeah, yeah. And it just made me realize that, like, some of the stuff that I wish is completely gone from my past, that I still have some of these defensive triggers that like, I've worked on a lot of them. But I realized that, like, I do actually even have a problem with. With being wrong. Like, if I do something wrong once I start down a path, then I. I really don't want to be wrong because I don't want to be bad. Because if I'm bad, then I will, like, be like, severely punished for being bad. You know, like, that's. That still is something that I thought that like. Because we've been dealing with that with. With other situations. And I was like, oh, but then.

John [01:12:29]: I've even dealt with that too. You know what I mean?

John [01:12:31]: But it's still. It's. It's harder to trigger in me.

Nicole [01:12:35]: Right.

John [01:12:35]: Like, but it's still there. And. Yeah, but. But hopefully this is a good, you know, getting rid of that as I'm observing it and seeing that. That I can still be that way. Because I'm also to a degree, embarrassed to be wrong. Because. Because. And I think a lot of it comes from, like, most of the time I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm being calm and stoic and treating everyone respectfully and being kind and loving and graceful. And so if I fall off of that at all, then I start to, like, I'm like, backpedaling and trying to justify it and trying to prove that that's not what I'm doing. And you know, the whole trap that many of us fall into. But yeah, I'm definitely susceptible to, but.

John [01:13:18]: I think that's too Kind of the wrong way to look at it because I feel like if you look at it like, well, I'm good majority of the time, then it kind of makes it almost acceptable.

John [01:13:31]: Yeah.

John [01:13:32]: Like it is acceptable to make a mistake, for sure.

Nicole [01:13:35]: Yeah.

John [01:13:36]: But it was difficult because I've seen you not act the way that you acted with me with other people.

John [01:13:43]: Yeah.

John [01:13:44]: And so it's like seeing that you're capable of it but you're not giving me that was probably the most hurtful thing.

John [01:13:51]: Yeah.

John [01:13:51]: And that, like, I guess that's the thing is like, if you view it as like, well, I'm perfect all the other times, then it's like, that doesn't really make sense because you're perfect all the other times, but then you still don't react the same way.

John [01:14:06]: Let me correct what I meant by that is I don't mean that like it's excusable because of that. I mean, it makes it more hard when I do mess up.

John [01:14:14]: You make it hard on yourself.

John [01:14:15]: Exactly. That's what I was trying to mess up. Yeah. I wasn't trying to say that it's. It's excusable because I'm trying to say that it triggers in me because I'm like, now I've been doing really good and now I've messed up, and now I must be a messed up person and all. So then it triggers.

John [01:14:35]: Yeah.

John [01:14:35]: Whereas it's like, okay. The right answer is to be like, okay, so you've just started to mess up. Big deal. People mess up. Even if you've done really, really good and haven't messed up up for a very long time, messing up is okay. So don't continue down this path as soon as you recognize it. Don't try and, like, mess up more to justify the thing that you've messed up. Just be like, okay, I messed up. Big deal.

Nicole [01:14:58]: Right.

John [01:14:58]: Which it is hard to do. And I think too, that's still attached to ego, right?

John [01:15:02]: Yeah, it is.

John [01:15:03]: Because, you know, recently I've been trying to work on not taking things personally, because I used to take everything personally that some. Someone said to me. And that is an ego thing as well, too, you know? So I think it is. Because, I mean, I've been the same way. But then the second that you're like, you know what? I'm wrong, you think that someone's gonna be like, see, I told you, or like, shove it in your face. But really they're like, thank you for finally saying it. You know what I mean? Like, it actually fixes Things.

John [01:15:32]: Yeah, because I texted you the other day and I was like. Because I was on my call, I didn't have. But I was like, you know what? I'm actually completely wrong. And, like, I'm responsible for all of this. I forgot exactly what I said, but I was like, I'm just in it. Like, I. Like I'm just completely wrong. Like, I. Whatever I was arguing or saying, it's just ridiculous. Like, it was ridiculous that I'm wrong.

John [01:15:52]: It was. It was ridiculous to the point where I was like, do we only have arguments about things that aren't even about us?

John [01:15:59]: But it's so easy. It's like when you say that. And that's the important lesson is, like, if you just realize you're wrong instead of continuing to justify it and continue to try and entrench yourself into the position.

Nicole [01:16:11]: Right.

John [01:16:11]: If you just tell the person, you know what? I'm actually wrong, Like, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. I'm just being stubborn and being an idiot, then they're not going to respond negatively. They're going to be like, I'm glad you said, thank you. It's over. I forgive you. We don't have to have a discussion about this for four hours to try to get you to understand because you're still fighting it. Like, just.

John [01:16:38]: You're still holding it.

John [01:16:38]: Big deal. Everyone does stupid stuff. You know, I trip and fall on my face sometimes. Like, who cares? Like now. Just admit it. Yeah, that's it. So a little taste of my own medicine, because I've told people that advice before. Then I tripped on my own feet. So it happens.

John [01:16:55]: We all do it.

Nicole [01:16:56]: Yeah.

John [01:16:56]: So. All right, well, that's it. Come check us out@betterthanperfectpod.com you can sign up on there to get.

John [01:17:05]: Subscribe. Yeah, the newsletter.

John [01:17:07]: Exactly. Well, yeah. And you'll get a new episode. When the new episode comes out, it'll show up in your email and it's fun, you know, whatever. And leave us a review. Please, we're begging you, leave us a review. No, you don't have to. We don't want you to. We don't want your reviews.

John [01:17:25]: Spread the word.

Nicole [01:17:27]: All right?

John [01:17:28]: We'll see you next time. Take care.