Nicole [00:00:00]: So when people are, like, trying to make people feel bad or aspiring to have this great love in their life, being excited to find the person that they're going to spend the rest of their life with, it's a little strange to me. I mean, people used to try to make me feel bad when I was still single and be like, oh, you have too high of standards. The love you think exists, it's like just fairy tales. And I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be. If I think in this way and I want love like this and I'm willing to put in the effort to give love like this, why would there not be someone else out there who thinks the same thing?

John [00:00:33]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect. We stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:58]: See, you grew and you did it perfect.

John [00:01:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:03]: Well, this week we're going to be talking about a question here that I have.

John [00:01:09]: Okay.

Nicole [00:01:10]: And it is, is it realistic or unhealthy to expect your partner to be your best friend, lover, and primary source of emotional support? What do you think? H.

John [00:01:23]: Best friend, lover, lover and primary source of emotional support.

Nicole [00:01:28]: Yes.

John [00:01:30]: So I think that. Okay, definitely best friend and lover is on. Is. Is. Is realistic. Yes. Primary source of emotional support. I guess if you say primary, then even if, whether you're a man or woman, I think that's. I think that's still probably true. The only reason why I'm doubtful on the third one is that it shouldn't be your only. And especially as a man, it's a little bit different. Right. For a man, probably his primary source of emotional support with negative emotion should be his peer group of other men, like his fellowship with other men. Because some of those negative emotions of doubt and fear and self confidence issues, those ones, he should be looking for support from other men as opposed to his wife because it won't be a good result. Not to say that he shouldn't rely on her for, For. For some emotional support, obviously, but, but in a different way. And whereas a woman, I think it should be absolutely like the man should be her primary emotional support.

Nicole [00:02:57]: Yeah, I mean, I think.

John [00:03:00]: There we go.

Nicole [00:03:00]: Done that. I think that even for men, like, I hear what you're saying, but in my mind, yeah. It just feels like also what women would talk to their other women friends about, like, it's more secondary Stuff. Because I feel like if a man doesn't have the emotional support, like, kind of like we talked about with the how to handle your hurt and things like that.

John [00:03:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:28]: I feel like if you don't have that under control and those sort of things.

John [00:03:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:35]: In your relationship, then just everything's going to be a mess. And I'm not saying that, like, you're not going to have, like, career struggles or financial struggles or whatever that you don't really want to talk to your wife about.

John [00:03:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:50]: But I feel like everybody, if they're, like, core emotions are out of whack, as in their connection with their partner, then, like, all the other stuff's just gonna be out of whack as well, too. Like, when I read, like, primary emotional support, I think more of, like, the big emotions, like we talked about, like, feeling inadequate or, like, not needed or, like, those sort of big things.

John [00:04:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:23]: You should be uncovering those with your partner, not with your friends. And, like, secondary to those things, like the little things, like, oh, like, the business isn't doing well this week, or, like, you know, I'm having a hard parenting week or something. Whatever you're talking to, like, your friends about, like, yes. I'm not saying those aren't big things, but those are kind of stemming again from the bigger things that we work on with our partners.

John [00:04:53]: Right. They're not foundational to their relationship.

Nicole [00:04:55]: They're not. The foundational emotional support that I feel like has to come from your partner. Because you can't call your partner your best friend.

John [00:05:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:06]: If you don't trust them with the deepest level of support.

John [00:05:11]: I think the thing is, is that a man shouldn't rely on a woman for emotional support.

Nicole [00:05:19]: I don't think anybody should rely on anyone.

John [00:05:22]: Well, I think a woman should reply, rely on a man in her relationship for emotional support. I do believe that. That that is the case. But a man should not rely on a woman for emotional support. Like, I'm not saying that she can't give it, but he shouldn't rely on it. Like, it shouldn't be the thing that, like responsibility. Right. Because it's like. It's like what I've talked about before is that as a man in a relationship, you are the shoulder for your woman to cry on. But you don't get a shoulder to cry on as a man. Like, that's not, like, that's not being a man. Like, you know, as a man, you. You are at the shoulder to cry, but you don't have one. The closest that you have to. That is your male, you know, friends who are like your group of male friends who you can express these insecurities and doubts too. But, like, as a man, you have to be able to stand up and not rely on emotional support in order to be able to function and do what you need to do. Right. It's nice to have at times, but it's not something that you need to rely on. So I think that's the. But I mean, but. But I think it kind of, you know, the other parts of the equation of, like, best friend and lover, like, can someone be those things? Like, they should be essentially the heart of the question, like, yes, they should be those things, like your partner. Because I think one of the things that comes up is like, you know, and Esther Perel has written some books about it, which I've read her books, but I kind of disagree with it because she says that essentially familiarity is in opposition to attraction. Right? So the more familiar you are, the less attracted you are. And so, like, mystery is attraction. And there's like, some level of truth to it. Like, at a. I think there's different levels that you look at at this. But. But that whole best friend and lover thing, it's like she might say, well, if you're best friends, then that will make it harder for you to be lovers. Right? And at a very low level, I think that can be true. But at a deeper level, it makes it so that you're a better best friend and a better lover. You know what I'm saying? It's like when you penetrate that level. So I think that's where people would say, okay, if you're too familiar, if you're too much of friends with someone, then the mystery aspect of the sexual chemistry diminishes because it depolarizes. But I think what's left out of that equation is the masculine and feminine aspect of it. So if you take two people that are, from a masculine, feminine standpoint, are somewhat neutral, and you make them more familiar with each other, more friends, then the polarization sexually will disappear. But if you take a man or someone who's acting in their masculine and a woman acting in her feminine, and even if there's a friendship, a best friend type relationship with them, because they're still acting from those poles, the sexual relationship will actually increase, not decrease. So I think. And it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff. But does. Does that make sense? Like, what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:09:08]: It makes sense. Yeah, but I was gonna say that, like, in order to not have that happen with the best friend and lovers thing.

John [00:09:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:16]: It's the emotional support that makes those two things able to coexist and not cancel each other out.

John [00:09:24]: Explain it. Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:25]: Because that's like the deep intimacy part. That's the part that's irreplaceable. Like, that's the part where you're mirroring to each other. Because this is the issue I have with saying that it's different for men. Like, men will never reflect back to you the way that being in a relationship with a woman will to heal those parts of yourself.

John [00:09:46]: For sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:47]: So, like, you can't. And same with women. Like, my female relationships will never reflect back to me. Right. The things that you do that I need to heal, for sure. So that can't be my primary source because they're not even hitting on what I need to. Actually, the deep parts of myself that I need to work on and vice versa, because otherwise I would have been healed. When you met me, I was single for a long time and I had a lot of close girlfriends and would talk to them about whatever, but I still had so much more to learn that only you taught me. And same with you. You were, you know, had done a lot of work. You had guy friends that you could talk to about things. It didn't. It still didn't get you to where I helped you get to. It's like. That is what I mean by, like, the primary source. Like, the core things, I do think they have to be your partner, but I think that you have to be best friends and lovers and have that emotional support there for each other. Like, they all have to coexist.

John [00:10:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:55]: And I think if you're missing one, because the same thing is, like, okay, you can be lovers.

John [00:11:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:01]: And, like, maybe you talk to. But I don't even think you can have emotional support without being best friends, because.

John [00:11:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:07]: That is what friends do. But I'm saying that, like, there are plenty of people out there who, like, are intimate.

John [00:11:14]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:14]: Have physical relationships. They have the lover part, what they think.

John [00:11:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:18]: You know, maybe they even go on dates or they're doing, like, spicing up their sex life or whatever.

John [00:11:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:24]: But they're not friends. Like, they rely on their outside support groups because they're their primary support groups.

John [00:11:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:31]: And so they're missing that whole part of it. I think, honestly, the best and healthiest relationships have these things. I think that this is, like, the key to having really great relationships. I get that it's a delicate balance because like you said, there are plenty of people who are like, oh, well, if you're too familiar, if you're best friends and you spend too much time together.

John [00:11:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:54]: Then your love life's not going to be good, or you're intimate, but that's not going to be.

John [00:11:58]: That's what I'm saying is it's only true if you're not polarized in the masculine and feminine poles. If you are, then the more time you spend together, it won't. It won't matter. It's when you. It's depolarization of the masculine and feminine that causes that, not the. But what ends up happening a lot of times is that if you become best friends, you spend so much time together that you depolarize. Doesn't have to be the case. Right. If you are correctly playing your roles. Right. Which again, part of playing the roles is that the man should not be coming to a woman for emotional support. The woman should be coming to the man for emotional support. Because that's the masculine versus the feminine.

Nicole [00:12:41]: Yeah, I get that. He's not coming to her for it, but she's giving it him it for sure.

John [00:12:45]: Exactly. That's exactly. Because that's her nature.

Nicole [00:12:48]: Like, even though he's not asking her, she's still his primary source.

John [00:12:53]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:12:54]: Because she's supporting him through the things that he's not even outright asking for. Does that make sense?

John [00:13:00]: That's exactly right.

Nicole [00:13:01]: He's making him face the things that he doesn't even want to.

John [00:13:05]: Because that's what the feminine does.

Nicole [00:13:07]: Right, right.

John [00:13:08]: Yeah, exactly. It's exactly. It's because the feminine, again, if we go back to the feminine is. Is one of the core attributes of feminine is intuition. So she feels and senses emotional support where it's not necessarily asked for, but is needed. Right, right. Whereas the. The masculine. Right. He responds. Right. Like the. He relies on the feminine coming to him for the emotional support and he gives it. Right. Like he's there to. To give it, but. Yeah, but it is different. Like, and that's in that. That has to be different in order to.

Nicole [00:13:42]: Yeah, I think the, like, way it's set up is different. Yeah, but with the question. Yeah, I think it's the same. Like, I think it's necessary.

John [00:13:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:53]: To have that sort of level of relationship. Because honestly, when I read it, I was like, that's how it actually should be.

John [00:14:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:02]: Or you shouldn't get married.

John [00:14:03]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Nicole [00:14:04]: Like, if you're looking at the person you're about to marry and you don't feel like they're your best friend, lover and emotional support person.

John [00:14:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:13]: The primary person helping you through all the things in life. You have no business being up there.

John [00:14:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:20]: Getting ready to say I do. Because that, like I said, people have parts of it.

John [00:14:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:29]: But they're not fully in their relationships.

John [00:14:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:34]: If they only have parts of it, like they're not. They're like two individuals living together and.

John [00:14:41]: Exactly. Hooking up instead of two parts of one whole.

Nicole [00:14:45]: Right.

John [00:14:45]: So like your partner completes you in the unit of one whole. That you're.

Nicole [00:14:50]: Right.

John [00:14:51]: That you're you.

Nicole [00:14:51]: The yin and yang.

John [00:14:52]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:14:53]: Right. You together.

John [00:14:55]: Yeah. So then that's going to be like you don't need outside sources in order to complete a hole. Right, right. It's like it's between them.

Nicole [00:15:03]: Like men should have.

John [00:15:05]: Yeah. For sure.

Nicole [00:15:05]: They're male friends and women should have their female friends. Like, we're not in any way saying to not have that.

John [00:15:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:12]: But I mean, like the way you and I operate and some of our other couple friends.

John [00:15:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:18]: They're talking to their partner about the stuff. Like they're talking about things to each other. Like they're best friends before they talk to other people about the things. Because that's how close they are.

John [00:15:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:31]: And it's like if you're talking to your girlfriends, though, or your guy friends before you're talking to your spouse.

John [00:15:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:38]: That's. Something's not balanced there. Like, there's probably something going on. There's probably some resentment, some, I don't know, something going on there. Maybe you don't feel emotionally supported, so you don't feel like a best friend with your partner.

John [00:15:52]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:53]: But that's like a red flag to be like, I need to work. We need to work on something in our relationship that's keeping us from having all of these things.

John [00:16:01]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:02]: Because if you don't immediately want to go to your partner and be like, hey, like this happened, or like, hey, I just got this, like, they're not your primary person you want to like talk to about those things, then some dynamic is off. Because I do think that this is like a very good way to gauge that you're in a healthy relationship that does have the capacity to go long, like a long term happy marriage.

John [00:16:31]: Yeah. I think the spirit of the question comes from people saying that you can't put this, all of these things onto one person. You can't expect them to fulfill all these things for you.

Nicole [00:16:41]: Yeah, they do say that.

John [00:16:42]: And I think the thing, the error in that thinking is thinking that they are fulfilling all these things for you as opposed to that you are giving them these things or you're two parts of a whole. Like you're one, you know, because then you don't think that way because if you're combining to become one, then it's not a burden that you put on someone to deal with all that. But like I said, that's where it can be, where a guy can put an emotional burden on a woman to be his emotional support when that should not be the case. Like you said, she should be giving that to him, but he shouldn't be relying on that in order to manipulate his emotions. Exactly. Yeah. So. But I do agree, like, that's, you know, it's a wrong way of thinking to think that this is. And I think a lot of people will say about, you know, well, it's kind of what we've talked about before about, like a girls trip or a guy's trip or it's like, I'd rather hang out with my friends than my partner.

Nicole [00:17:48]: Yeah.

John [00:17:48]: You know, obviously you want to do both, but the person you would want to spend the most time with should be your partner always. Like, you know, that's. That's the biggest indicator, because you're gonna talk with your friends in different way and about different things and even about different things that affect you emotionally.

Nicole [00:18:05]: Right.

John [00:18:05]: Than your partner. But. But you primarily want to spend time with your partner. Otherwise you got a problem.

Nicole [00:18:13]: Yeah, yeah. No, I. A thousand percent agree. And going back to, you know, the people who are like, it's unhealthy to expect all this thing from one person.

John [00:18:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:23]: I think the thing is that when you're in this situation, like when you are best friends and lovers and you emotionally support each other primarily, like, you don't feel that way.

John [00:18:39]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:41]: If that makes sense. Like you don't feel like. Like I don't feel like you're asking for too much from me.

John [00:18:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:50]: To fulfill those roles. I feel like they are fulfilled because of the relationship we built. Does that make sense?

John [00:18:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:56]: Like, I feel like if you have other things going on in your relationship and you're missing some of these.

John [00:19:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:01]: And you're like, you're supposed to be my best friend. Yeah. That feels demanding. And that person's not. They don't understand what that looks like because you guys haven't operated that way. You can't just expect them to do that. But I think when you've built a good foundation with, like, all the things that We've talked about on how our relationship is built and the rules we have within our relationship and for ourselves. Like, when you have that these things happen naturally, and it doesn't feel like a burden is being put on each other. Like, I never feel burdened that I have to be the one to support you emotionally.

John [00:19:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:19:44]: Or that I'm the primary person or that I have to see the side of you. I mean, like, there is a time when I see a different side of you, then you show other people.

John [00:19:56]: Sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:58]: And I want to help you for that to not be the case. Right. So. Because I know what you're capable of, and I want you to be able to do that completely. But I know that I'm helping you get to whatever underlying thing is keeping you from doing that.

John [00:20:14]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:15]: And I want to be able to do that. Does that make sense?

John [00:20:18]: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:19]: Like, so there's never this, like, emotional burden of, like, oh, I have to help John deal with these. Like, there is some instances where I'm like, okay, like, I wish he would snap out of, like, this defensive mode he's in and kind of, like, come back to his baseline or, like, where I know he can come back to.

John [00:20:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:38]: But at the end of the day, also, I know that you're always working to be better, and you're going to work on those things. So, like, that. I never feel like you're putting a burden on me or, you know, or I don't want to help you with these things because I've seen. Seen how you've grown anyway, and I've grown as well, and I would never have been able to do it without you. But it never feels like a burden. It feels like I'm getting to help you at the deepest level.

John [00:21:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:07]: That any human can help another human, and that is, like, a beautiful thing.

John [00:21:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:11]: It's not a burden. It's not. Can't you go talk to your guy friends?

John [00:21:16]: Like, no.

Nicole [00:21:17]: You know, like, I want to be the one to help you through the things in your life that no one else has been able to help you through.

John [00:21:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:23]: Like, I want the honor of doing that. Like, it's an honor. But people are like, oh, it's. You can't put that burden on somebody. If you're viewing it that way. Yeah, well, you're gonna be miserable.

John [00:21:36]: I mean, I think. I think part of it, too, is it's like, you know, where it kind of comes from is you. At the same time, you can't expect someone else, anyone to make you happy or to like, you know. So it's like I think sometimes it can be like, okay, you're, you're. You're needing all these things from a. It's coming from a neediness place of like in order to be okay, you.

Nicole [00:22:01]: Need to like, like validation. Right? Yeah. These things that are not going to actually ever make you feel better.

John [00:22:07]: Yeah. Like, like we talked about before in other episodes is that your partner needs to be in addition to your life. Like it's not your care for loneliness. You have to be okay with yourself first and with being alone and be self sufficient. And then to be with someone is a, is a plus. It's a, it's a bonus. Yeah. It's, it's above zero. It's not, it brings it to level. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're negative and then this person brings you up to just normal, that's not good. Like that's like you need to be operating already at that level or above that level and, and then they bring it even higher in your life. So they're an asset for you to have in your life. Not something that you, you need in order to, you know. Because then it does become a burden. Right. If it's like if my happiness is completely dependent on you, that's a burden on you. You know, if it's like if I'm like I'm putting these, my emotional state onto you, then that becomes a burden. Right. You know, not to say that we don't you know, obviously influence those things, but I think that's the thing. But, but being best friends, being a lover is not a burden. It's just a matter of like you have to already be okay on your own. And then this person in addition to your life.

Nicole [00:23:27]: Well, I guess I just view the emotional support not as like fixing it.

John [00:23:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:32]: But as being the support, like giving that and like giving the person the opportunity to see these things or see it in a different way or things like that. Like not as necessarily like fixing it.

John [00:23:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:47]: But being the one that is there for the hard things.

John [00:23:51]: Right. Just like when we talk about with the grieving process. Right. It's like you have to be open to your partner about what's going on and share that pain and go through that with them, not just close yourself off. So.

Nicole [00:24:05]: Right.

John [00:24:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:07]: No, yeah, yeah. But I think that, I don't know again like, cuz I know people are going to say like that's not healthy. That's why they said is it realistic or unhealthy Oh, I see.

John [00:24:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:20]: Just trying to hit on all the.

John [00:24:21]: Yeah. Well, what's unhealthy about it? You know, that's the question I would.

Nicole [00:24:25]: Say is, like, that's a good question. I mean, I think that, honestly, people probably think we're unhealthy in a way. We spend all of our time together and, like, that's not healthy. You need to, you know, I don't know, do other things. Like, I mean, we hang out with our friends. We have other friends. We do that, but we enjoy our time together and we spend basically all of our time together.

John [00:24:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:51]: And we tell each other all the things and we support each other. And I'm not saying that our way is perfect, but I think it's a lot better than a lot of the other relationships that I had previously been in and other ones that I have seen glimpses of.

John [00:25:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:10]: And it feels a lot safer and more grounded and supported. And, you know, I know you're going to be there for me and I'm going to be there for you. And so. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I guess, like you said, what is unhealthy about it? Like, I think if you're holding somebody hostage that doesn't want to be your best friend and doesn't want to hang out with you 247 or whatever, then, sure. But that's like, how did you even get in that relationship and sustain it to begin with, if that's where you're coming from?

John [00:25:42]: Well, I think it's unhealthy if, like I said, you need that person to fulfill all of your.

Nicole [00:25:51]: Like, you need them to be happy so you can be happy or you need them to, like, validate you so you feel better about yourself.

John [00:25:58]: Yeah. Yeah. It should be an. It's like. It's like, okay, the reason why I want to spend my time with you, all my time with you and be around you is because I like that it's better than not. Not because I need something from you. Exactly. Like, if I didn't do that, then I would be miserable like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's because also when. When you say. When you put it that way, then it's like any substitute would do.

Nicole [00:26:30]: Right.

John [00:26:31]: You know, but it's like, you know, it's like, I'd be happy on my own, but I'm happier with you as opposed to I can't be happy on my own. Like, I can only be happy when I'm with you there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:45]: Yeah. But I think that like this. You're right. I think that this question. I don't know, again, maybe it's because of our relationship. That's where I'm viewing it from. It just felt deeper than that to me. But you're right that maybe that's where people get.

John [00:26:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:01]: To thinking that it's unhealthy when it's actually coming from a more like, immature place of, like, needing the validation or like, trying to fix people because you can't deal with anyone being unhappy because you need them to be happy so that you're happy and, you know, those things. I can see that. But. Yeah. I don't know, sometimes the, like. Because it's a lot of psychologists actually, that will say stuff like, oh, you can't, like, expect your partner to be everything for you. And like. Yes, you can't expect anything.

John [00:27:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:32]: But at the same time, I feel like if you want to be the best partner you can be, you're going to want to do these things for your partner anyway. You're going to want to be closer to your partner. You're going to want to be their best friend, you're going to want to be their lover, you're going to want to be their emotional support.

John [00:27:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:46]: So, like, it doesn't feel forced or it doesn't feel foreign. It doesn't feel, like, illogical.

John [00:27:55]: It's not like a. Like you're leeching off, you know, it's like.

Nicole [00:27:59]: Right.

John [00:28:00]: It's like, I mean, a good example is like, you know, I go to the. I go and do my running and go to the gym and like, you do your dance, like, you know, and then we do lift together and, like. But it's like we've got our own things that we do, you know, that are. That are our passions or whatever, you know, so it's not like it would be unhealthy if the only thing you did was spend time with your partner and you had no hobbies or anything else.

Nicole [00:28:28]: Right.

John [00:28:29]: That's all that, like. Because you're just like, you know, or.

Nicole [00:28:32]: You just like, I started running even though I hate it or something and I don't know. Or like, prevented you from running.

John [00:28:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:38]: Because I don't, like, I don't want to go.

John [00:28:41]: You don't want to be like a little lap dog. That's like. You're just like, looking to your partner all the time every time. Like, that's the only thing that you live for is just to just, you know, like, you have to have some other things in your life. Obviously. Right. But that doesn't mean that your partner can't be your best friend, your lover, your emotional support. That, like, the primary thing in your life, like, and it should be like, your life should be around, you know, primary focus on your. Your partner.

Nicole [00:29:10]: So, yeah, that's a whole other thing you could go into is. I'm sure there's people out there who say that your partner shouldn't be, like, your primary. But I agree with you. Like, I. It confuses me when people are like, oh, like, you shouldn't look forward to, like, getting married or being in a relationship should not be something that you, like, aspire to or look forward to in your life. And that just never really made sense to me.

John [00:29:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:39]: And maybe it's because those people might be coming from, like, a bitter place or something, but I don't think that they're, like. I don't know. I guess when people try to make people feel bad for being extra invested in their romantic relationships, especially if they're married, it's just really odd to me.

John [00:30:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:02]: Because, I mean, even like you talked about in the other episode where, like, the ultimate goal is to respond in love, like, why wouldn't this, like, euphoric version of love? Because, like, you love your family, you love your friends.

John [00:30:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:19]: But your romantic love exceeds that. I mean, you have the intimate part. Like, it should exceed it because you're not intimate with those other people in your life. You don't have that added element.

John [00:30:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:30]: To elevate this version of love. So when people are, like, trying to make people feel bad for, you know, aspiring to have this great love in their life or being excited to find the person that they're going to spend the rest of their life with.

John [00:30:44]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:45]: It's a little strange to me.

John [00:30:47]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:48]: Maybe it's coming from a bitter place or some other person's, like, baggage. And I can understand that.

John [00:30:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:55]: But I also think it's important for people to talk about how much they value their romantic relationship and how it's okay to aspire to want a better than you could have ever imagined romantic relationship. Because, I mean, people used to try to make me feel bad when I was still single and be like, oh, you have too high of standards. Or, like, the love you think exists or, like, you're gonna get is, like, just fairy tales or movie stuff.

John [00:31:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:27]: And I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be. If I think in this way and I want love like this, and I'm willing to put in the effort to Give love like this.

John [00:31:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:38]: Then why would there not be someone else out there who thinks the same thing?

John [00:31:41]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:31:42]: And who wants the same thing.

John [00:31:44]: Yeah, I think a lot of it is just, it's a form of, of protection, of self protection. Right. So that's the, the big thing that is the hindrance to relationship is self protection, either ego protection or heart protection like we talked about. But because.

Nicole [00:32:03]: Which I am guilty of. Like, and definitely have tried to protect myself at times.

John [00:32:09]: But that's where that whole idea is like, because that the hyper, you know, independence comes from this idea that like you can't rely on anyone. You can't. And it's like there's truth that you can't totally rely on anyone. Like they can't be like coming from a needy place. Like you need. But there's also truth to the sense that like, you have to allow someone to be. To that you rely on like you, you, like you don't need that, but you have to allow it. Like you have to have the trust and be open to and vulnerable enough to drop the defense so that you can allow that into. And, and you know, with that obviously comes the risk of loss. Right. But that is actually, it's more strength to, you know, because it's like people are trying to protect themselves and trying to say, oh well, I'm strong, I don't need anyone. But in reality that's like, it's a weakness because the real strength comes from being able to be open up and vulnerable in the face of a loss and knowing that you'll survive anyway. Right. So that's the, that's the thing about it is I think that's why people come from that perspective. And that's also why like, it's sort of like this whole thing of the friend lover and emotional support, like putting everything into one person is like. I think some people are approaching this as, I don't want to put all my chips.

Nicole [00:33:45]: Eggs in the one basket.

John [00:33:46]: Exactly. I'm spreading my chips out to the different places so that if this one person lets me down, it doesn't completely destroy and crush my life, which is the wrong way. That's how you don't invest enough to get one foot out. And you're going to doom the relationship with that approach. Whereas you got to be able to say, I'm going to put all my eggs in this basket or chips in this basket. Because that's how I live. That's how I love 100%. And even if they do let me down, even if this thing ends or whatever it is, whatever happens, that I will survive and I will. And the next time I will do the same thing again. Because, you know, that's what it is to really, truly be strong and to give yourself. But it also creates the greatest chance of the relationship. Surviving.

Nicole [00:34:38]: Right. And being amazing. Being like the level that you want it to be.

John [00:34:43]: Exactly. Because. Exactly. Because that's what it takes to get there. So it's like if you try to protect yourself, you. It will inadvertently hurt yourself.

Nicole [00:34:51]: Yeah. You'll self sabotage the relationship. Relationship. Yeah. That's actually really interesting and I think you're not wrong.

John [00:34:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:58]: I think that it upsets me though that like therapists and things like that are perpetuating the narrative of like one person can't be all these things to you. Like, I know from like a clinical standpoint that's probably where they're coming from. And like, weirdly enough, I think they are maybe encouraging whether it's conscious or not, the putting your eggs in different baskets.

John [00:35:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:24]: So that you don't ever have no eggs. But I also think that that could to be contributing to the problem that we're seeing with like a lot of people not being able to handle anything and not trusting anyone and hyper individualism and like then people not being fulfilled in their relationships. But it's like you said, like it's because you're protecting yourself so much. And I did this as well. I'm trying to be better at it, but I did it as well. And you know that's true. Like, but you can't. And you helped me with this. You can't be all in and still trying to protect yourself.

John [00:36:00]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:01]: The only thing you can do is be all in.

John [00:36:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:03]: And know like you said that you can handle whatever's thrown at you. Like you'll figure it out. Like that, that is actual strength. Like you said, like protecting yourself or being like, oh, well, I'm. I'm not going to fully trust somebody or like I'm going to like, you know, I'm, I'm going to tell my husband some stuff, but I'll tell my like best friend. The, the important stuff. Like that's not really. You're not really all in.

John [00:36:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:30]: And that's also probably why people who fight on a lot of this stuff or they don't feel like their partner's their best friend or emotional support. It's because they might also not be investing in their partner but expecting it back from their partner.

John [00:36:47]: Yeah. Yeah. You can't be. Hedging your bets. When it comes to relationship, romantic relationship, you got to be all in.

Nicole [00:36:54]: Yeah.

John [00:36:54]: In order to have the greatest chance of, of success and the depth of what you actually want. Otherwise you'll have shallow relationship, which is more likely to fail. And so then you can just prove yourself. Right.

Nicole [00:37:07]: Right.

John [00:37:07]: That you need to protect yourself and you will just perpetuate the cycle instead of realizing that actually by going all in, you're less likely to get hurt. Like you still may, and you may feel like it hurts more. But I think the other part of this too is that to understand the purpose of relationship is for your growth. But also it's not what you get, it's what you give. It's like it's to love another person, not to be loved. Like, obviously, we all want to be loved, but that's not the purpose. Like, that's not how you should be viewing your relationships. You should be thinking about, like, it's, it's an outpouring of your, of your love which creates love within you by outpouring the love. But not something that you're trying to get. Because if you think about it in terms of get, then you're going to be coming to it from a needy place and from a fearful place and a protecting yourself place. But if it's something that you give, then there's nothing. It's kind of like what we talked about with the parenting relationship too is it's like when you're parenting a child, it has to be all about what you're giving to the child and not anything that you're getting. That has to be the primary focus because others are going to hold back, you know, because.

Nicole [00:38:28]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little different with romantic relationships because you do have to make the educated decision. Like, it's not just loving someone who's treating you poorly or who's abusing you or whatever. Like if you have already done your due diligence and chose this person for a reason. Yes, you're right.

John [00:38:49]: Yeah, then.

Nicole [00:38:50]: But I want to classify because again, children are just brought into this world. Like there's a difference.

John [00:38:55]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:56]: So I don't want people to think that you mean that. Like, if your partner is abusing you. No, it's about pouring love into them. It's not about how they treat you back. Like, no, Like, I mean, what you're.

John [00:39:07]: Saying ultimately is true.

Nicole [00:39:09]: Yes. Yeah, but.

John [00:39:10]: But it doesn't mean you should not even be with them.

Nicole [00:39:12]: Right, right.

John [00:39:13]: Like, ultimately it's still true, but ultimately you don't have to be with them, and you have to make the right choices anyway, so.

Nicole [00:39:19]: Right.

John [00:39:20]: You know, so.

Nicole [00:39:21]: Which I think too. I can't speak for everybody, but I think even when I talked earlier, earlier about like, wanting like a relationship that seems like a fantasy to some people, it's not that you want someone to love you so much. It's that you want it to be mutual or at least feel mutual. You want somebody that's putting in what you're putting in and like, experiencing that sort of like synergy together. Like, I don't think even think it's necessarily about what you get from the other person. I think it's just that. Because I think when you're in that dynamic where both people invested like that it's not even like. Like, yes, I can feel your love, but it is more. It feels more like oneness. I don't know how to describe it. Like, it's not like I'm focusing on, like, oh, like, you make me feel so loved. It feels like the unit of you and I together.

John [00:40:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:24]: Is like pulsating love. I don't know how else to describe it. It sounds ridiculous, but.

John [00:40:30]: Yeah. No, I get what you're saying.

Nicole [00:40:32]: Like, it doesn't necessarily feel like, okay, well, you're giving me love, you're saying these nice things, and then I say the nice things back to you. And like we're exchanging it. It feels instead like we're pouring into this again, like yin and yang, and it's just radiating.

John [00:40:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:46]: What we're pouring into each other.

John [00:40:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:48]: Outwards. I don't. Maybe that's like too far for people to understand, like too far off the rocker.

John [00:40:55]: But I think it makes sense. I mean, it's also like the. The microcosm for the bigger thing that's happening in. In reality. Right. It's like, you know, ultimately it's not about you. Right. It's like you're part of one larger thing. Right. And so trying to get love, trying to, you know, it's like get validation, is all a focus on the single self ego. Whereas in reality, like, the, like, the relationship is a microcosm for the larger idea of oneness. Because there's a bigger idea of oneness that supersedes all of us, that we're all one of one thing, of the source. And so. But that is an outpouring of love which grows the whole thing. It's like you said, it's the same exact concept, but in the relationship, you get to experience that at that level. And It's a training wheels for the larger consciousness of understanding, you know, how to be as a human. So.

Nicole [00:42:10]: Yeah, well. And maybe people even have experienced what I'm saying with their friends because maybe they have cultivated that relationship with other people besides their partner. And it's like if you felt it there or if you can even kind of understand what we're saying here.

John [00:42:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:27]: You are capable of feeling it with your partner. But it does take, you know, like you said, being all in all, eggs in one basket and vulnerable and, you know, showing up for your partner and being that primary emotional supporter and their best friend and their lover and being all those things.

John [00:42:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:48]: Not because you're obligated to, but because you want to.

John [00:42:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:52]: And you'll feel so connected with your partner that you will feel like that oneness and your love that you have for each other will radiate. And then, like you said, it'll spill on to other people.

John [00:43:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:05]: And they'll get to experience that and then they'll believe in it. And then that's how we all heal the world. You know, that's wishful thinking, but, you know, that's how it. That's how it goes. Like the more that we love ourselves and love other people.

John [00:43:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:20]: It spreads. It keeps spreading. You have more love to give. You have more capacity to constantly give the love more than you thought you could.

John [00:43:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:30]: So, yeah, I do think these. These things are. They're realistic.

John [00:43:34]: And if you're struggling with these things. Good, because that's why you're here. Right. It's like that's why you're in their relationship. It doesn't necessarily mean the dysfunction in the relationship. It means a dysfunction in you. That's the purpose of the relationship, is your growth. And so if you're struggling with the best friends, lover, emotional support, then that's a good thing because it means that that's what you're here to work on. Because once you get it all perfectly ironed out, then you're ready to go out into the world. You're ready to, because it's the training wheels to understand exactly what you're saying, which is that ultimately love is the. Is the answer to all of the things. Right. Like, that should be the response, the end goal. Yeah. That's the highest level. And so if you're feeling things that are not that, if you're having these resistances and you're having it in the relationship with one person, then how can you give that to the whole world? So this is your practice to get better as you discover. And that's what we've done in our relationship is we discover the things that we need to work on. It's like, well, why is there this irritation here? What is this thing that's preventing me from 100% giving my love to this person? And whatever that blockage is as you work that out and you find another one. But like the whole point is to, to completely get rid of those blockages so that you can pour out 100% love in all the things that you do and all responses in every way that you, you live. And that's. But the relationship, you know, having that level of intimate relationship and not shying away from it is what brings you in that direction more than anything else.

Nicole [00:45:23]: So that's true. Thousand percent, yeah.

John [00:45:28]: All right, well, I think we, we covered it. Yeah. Anything else you had to add to it?

Nicole [00:45:35]: I don't think so. I mean, hopefully that was understandable and covered all the like, things, ways that people might say, no, that's not true, or it's unhealthy or, I mean, I think we made a lot of sense and explained it, but I'm sure there'll still be somebody that says that it's not healthy, but maybe they're just not there to understand what we're saying yet.

John [00:46:01]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, I think the, the biggest thing is, like I said, is perhaps the, if, if someone thinks it's unhealthy, it comes from a self protection preservation standpoint. Right. And the biggest thing to understand with that is that you're fearing loss. And in reality, you can never lose anything because nothing was yours to begin with. Like it was all lent to you. It's all you're, it's a stewardship relationship that you have with the world and everyone in it. Not an ownership one. Like it's, we think it's ownership, but it's like everything we have will be given back. And so when you see it as a stewardship relationship, then there's something that's like, you can't lose something that wasn't yours to begin with. So when you're operating from a sense of trying to avoid loss, that's where protection comes in.

Nicole [00:46:58]: Yeah.

John [00:46:58]: But when everything is a gift and it's not yours and it's temporarily, you know, that it's being given to you to take care of, then if it's taken back, it's not a loss and so you don't have to protect and then you can, you know, so otherwise, like, because I don't see any other perspective that you can come from where you say that this is unhealthy or, you know, unrealistic. It has to come from a fear of a loss and self protection.

Nicole [00:47:29]: Yeah. Like you said, I was thinking in my head that, like, life is not a war, it's a school.

John [00:47:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:35]: Like, if you view it as just, you got to fight your way through it and protect yourself and try not to, you know, get taken out. That's not really why we're here. It might feel like that at times.

John [00:47:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:47:46]: Like, yeah, life can feel that way.

John [00:47:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:47:49]: But it's really actually all learning lessons, like everything, like you said. And you can't really feel all the good, Right. If you never put a hundred percent in. Like, you think you're feeling all the good, but really you're. You're still kind of feeling the bad. Because if your eggs are in other baskets, right. You're. You still have that fear, you still have that worry, you still have that, like, protection that's keeping you from feeling the ultimate level of good you could be feeling in this moment in your relationship, in whatever that you're afraid of.

John [00:48:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:25]: But the second you go all in, like, yes, if you did lose that, it would hurt. But honestly, it's gonna hurt either way. You think that worrying about it or protecting yourself actually dampens it.

John [00:48:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:39]: Because you've already prepared for it, but really you're. You've just been feeling it so slightly the whole time.

John [00:48:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:45]: And then now you're feeling it like all at once at the same time.

John [00:48:50]: And it'll be a double loss in, in that perspective because you'll have lost the, the relationship or whatever, but you'll also have now their regret of not actually enjoying it or living in one you hadn't. So it's better to just live the life all in and when it disappears, it. It does disappear. Because all relationships end at some point, right?

Nicole [00:49:12]: Yeah.

John [00:49:12]: Because we all die at some point. So the relationship will end. There's no question, at least on this earth, you know, But. But yeah, it's much worse. Yeah. So you might as well just go all into it. So.

Nicole [00:49:25]: Yeah.

John [00:49:26]: All right.

Nicole [00:49:27]: And YOLO, should we bring back YOLO in 2026?

John [00:49:33]: Sure.

Nicole [00:49:35]: You know what YOLO is, right?

John [00:49:38]: Yeah, no, I.

Nicole [00:49:40]: That didn't sound right.

John [00:49:41]: You only live once.

Nicole [00:49:44]: Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

John [00:49:46]: It's usually a bad. It's usually a bad way of thinking.

Nicole [00:49:51]: You know, it doesn't have to be.

John [00:49:52]: It doesn't have to be.

Nicole [00:49:53]: You can interpret it any way you want.

John [00:49:55]: Yeah, but people use it in a. In a way as like. Okay, I'm just gonna.

Nicole [00:49:59]: Well, this is yolo rebrand. You only live once, so love the people that you love while you can.

John [00:50:06]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:08]: There you have it.

John [00:50:09]: All right. All right, well, that's it for this week. If you have a question for us, email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com and if you want to follow us and subscribe and show support, betterthanperfectpod.com and as always, share this episode with someone who. Who needs it.

Nicole [00:50:28]: Who needs to. Yolo.

John [00:50:30]: Yeah. All right, we'll see you next week.