Nicole [00:00:00]: And then you called me and then you were like, I think we need to break up. Then I had to go to work.

John [00:00:03]: Yeah, I had to go to work. Drop bombs on you before work.

Nicole [00:00:06]: Yeah. John calls me 10 minutes later and he's like, no, I can't not be with you.

John [00:00:11]: What you went through is hard. I went through my own crap. But mine was self imposed. Yours was. You did swipe on the guy with the douchey profile.

Nicole [00:00:20]: Yeah. And I told you, hey, you look nice, but you have a douchey profile.

John [00:00:23]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our.

Nicole [00:00:27]: Flaws we complete each other.

John [00:00:30]: Better than perfect. Perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the better than perfect podcast where every week we show you how two imperfect people helping each other become better equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:51]: There you go.

John [00:00:52]: I think, I think I added an extra better in there though. Maybe helping each other.

Nicole [00:00:56]: You can always add some extra betters. That's not bad to add.

John [00:00:59]: It's better than perfect.

Nicole [00:01:00]: It's better than better.

John [00:01:01]: Better. Better than butter. Can't believe it's not butter.

Nicole [00:01:05]: Better than butter. I mean. Oh. All right. So what is our topic for today? Or is there any current events we need to be caught up on?

John [00:01:19]: Something to derail the entire episode? Yeah, I mean, you've been fighting the people in the comments about the child.

Nicole [00:01:27]: Rearing, but like people think that when I said that children shouldn't be responsible for their parents problems, they're like, no, children should be responsible for the things they do, I'm like, that's not what I said at all. But okay, yes, I agree with you. Kids should be responsible for their actions, not their parents actions.

John [00:01:50]: Yeah, I mean, I think the beginning of that clip you said children shouldn't be responsible for anything.

Nicole [00:01:55]: But I think in the actual episode that like it segued. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like it snows.

John [00:02:03]: Clear the context.

Nicole [00:02:04]: But maybe I did say that like in just that context. But I think it made more sense in the full episode. So go watch the full episode or watch the full clip. Because even if I said children shouldn't be responsible for everything in the first five seconds, you should watch the rest of the 45 seconds of the clip. So yeah, to see what I am.

John [00:02:23]: Saying, not just comment immediately like, oh, I've seen two seconds of the cliff. Yeah, but, but that's how it. I mean I have plenty of videos on YouTube where people where. But the title, the title is. Is the opposite of what the Video is about because I'm making a controversial title. And then people will just come. In fact, some people have the gall to comment below and say, haven't watched a video yet. But this is what I think about this.

Nicole [00:02:49]: Like, okay, yeah, I mean, it's definitely. The world has definitely turned into that because I think there's some meme or something where someone says, like, oh, today I'm making chocolate chip pancakes instead of banana pancakes. And people are like, so you don't like bananas? Like, they just add their own thing in there. Like, they just add all this stuff to it that no one ever said at all. So that's a very real reality on the Internet, unfortunately. But, yeah, well, that was a little something before the topic. Which is.

John [00:03:23]: Which is today the topic will be, should you take them back or do you. Should you take someone back and how. So if you do, you know, you got to make them beg on the floor. You know, gotta make them do some penance, whip them. I don't know.

Nicole [00:03:43]: That's. We're not going there, John. That's complicated.

John [00:03:50]: Yeah. So should you ever take someone back.

Nicole [00:03:56]: For the majority of the situations? No, you should not take somebody back. And you should really only take somebody back in a very rare instance.

John [00:04:09]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:11]: Like, I feel like ours was a very rare instance.

John [00:04:15]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:16]: I feel like we kind of have to go into that because, I mean, I would have told somebody before, don't take anybody back at all.

John [00:04:23]: Like, yeah, I would say the same thing.

Nicole [00:04:24]: Yeah, it's done. It's done. You know, that was the way that the cards were laid out. And if it was meant for you, the cards wouldn't have laid themselves out that way. And then you came along and changed everything.

John [00:04:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:41]: Well, so I guess to start, there was a time in John and my relationship where we did, I guess, technically break up twice. Twice we technically did. And John broke up with me both of those times.

John [00:04:58]: Sorry to be the first person to ever break up with you.

Nicole [00:05:01]: No, you weren't. But I was like, every time that that happened. Every time, all those two times, I was like, look, okay, that's fine. Like, but I don't want any contact with you. Like, then this is going to be done. Done. I'm not doing the, like, you're breaking up with me, but you want to, like, keep me around sort of thing.

John [00:05:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:21]: So when you called me the first time you did it, I was like, okay, done. And then I think, well, I didn't call you.

John [00:05:29]: I came in. Or. Well, I thought, yes.

Nicole [00:05:31]: Well, you tried to break up with me when you talked to me in person. And then I was like, why can't we figure this out? Like, I want to be with you. Like, I know you're going through some stuff, but, like, we can do it together. And, yeah, I'm sure I somewhat convinced you to kind of stay. It was a very, like, complicated situation because you. The whole time you were like, I love you. I'm not leaving you. It was this circumstance that you were doing. I think you did feel a little confused about what you were going through, but at the same time, you never made me feel like you didn't want to be with me, if that makes sense. And I mean, you could speak on your part, which you should, because I don't want to sit here putting words in your mouth. But I just have what we've already discussed and how we got here at all. But I think you should talk about those instances.

John [00:06:29]: Yeah. We could give more context to the. I guess the whole story. Right. So as we. We've talked about on the podcast before, you know, when we met, I was already married at the time, and I was not. You didn't know that, of course.

Nicole [00:06:49]: No.

John [00:06:49]: So. But if you want to. The full details, you can. Was it as it episode four, the cheating episode? I think so, but. So, yeah, so that created, obviously, a complicated situation when we did end up getting together and then I had gone.

Nicole [00:07:07]: Well, we didn't, like, officially get together until you told me that. And then the only reason we move forward is because you told me that you were actively making steps to dissolve, that even though you had already stepped out of the marriage and, like, what you thought emotionally detached from that, somewhat, like it was not. You realized that it was not what you thought it was, or like, it all hit you of what was actually happening in that moment. Yeah, but I'm just saying that, like, because people don't know the full story, that when you told me this, I only progressed with you because you told me that you were getting a divorce and things like that. So I wouldn't have moved forward if you were like, I'm still trying to figure it out.

John [00:08:03]: Oh, yeah.

Nicole [00:08:03]: So. And, like, you seemed like you knew what you wanted to do, and I don't think you ever didn't know what you wanted to do, but it's like everything caught up with you.

John [00:08:13]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:08:14]: After a while.

John [00:08:16]: Yeah. So. So basically, yes, you know, I told you what that I was and I did, and I moved to Florida and I started the divorce process, you know, initiated that. And Then what ended up happening, where the breakup occurred was we were together for, I think it was, like, three months at that time. Officially.

Nicole [00:08:42]: No, I think it was six.

John [00:08:44]: Okay. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Somewhere around there. And then I started to have a midlife crisis of sorts. Well, what happened to me, I think, psychologically, was just a lot of stuff that had. Because I had repressed a ton of things. I mean, I was going out and doing stuff that I wasn't supposed to do that I felt bad about. So I had all this shame and guilt.

Nicole [00:09:13]: Yeah.

John [00:09:13]: And then I couldn't really share some of that with you because I was still, like, in this really weird place. And it just kind of all hit me at once because everything was smooth, we were doing great. And then all of a sudden, like, one day I woke up and I was just.

Nicole [00:09:29]: It literally was.

John [00:09:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:30]: You also went to therapy because you were, like, really depressed.

John [00:09:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:35]: And, yeah, it was. You could tell that you were going through a dark time, and there was, like, a switch that went off in you, and you weren't, like the person that you normally had been.

John [00:09:45]: And I felt like I didn't deserve you. And then. And then when I felt bad, I felt like I was putting you through all of this stuff that you didn't need to go through, and that wasn't right for me to do. And so I finally came to the conclusion that, look, I have to get this stuff sorted out, figure myself out. And so I have no right to leave you hanging or to drag you through this. And then part of me, too, was. I mean, there was a lot of things going on in my head. Some of them were correct, some of them weren't correct. But just where I was thinking at that time, part of me was thinking, like, I don't want to ruin this, because how I am right now being so depressed. You may be thinking that I'm depressed because of you or that I'm not, that you don't make me happy. All these things. Like, I don't want to ruin the best thing that I've ever had. So it'd be better if I just cut it and figured my stuff out rather than having ruined it. At least that's where I was at. So that's why. Right. I came to your apartment.

Nicole [00:10:54]: Didn't think about that.

John [00:10:56]: It would.

Nicole [00:10:56]: You already had gone too deep.

John [00:10:59]: But, yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:00]: And I had never, ever fought for somebody. Like, I'm definitely the type of person that I'm like, if you don't want to be with me, I don't want to be with you.

John [00:11:09]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:10]: But I could tell that that wasn't the case. And that also you needed somebody that would be there for you in the hard times. Because I felt like you never really had that.

John [00:11:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:21]: But it just still was, like, just eating you alive. I could tell that there's nothing I could really do to help you even.

John [00:11:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:30]: But I did want us to try to stay together and work through this. Cause I thought that we could. Cause like you said, there was still that love there. And I could tell that you cared about me and that we were meant to be together. But also, at the same time, you were going through something really difficult, that you hadn't processed a lot of emotions for a very, very long time. And they were all kind of coming up at the same time. So you, like, agreed to stay in this situation, but you were gonna go back to California.

John [00:12:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:04]: And then you went back, and then you called me, and then you were like, I think we need to break up. And I was like, okay, but I'm not. I'm not like, I don't wanna be in contact with you. I don't want any of that stuff. I appreciated the time that we had, but I'm not gonna keep this stuff going or still talk to you. So then we hung up. Then I had to go to work. I had to go to work.

John [00:12:31]: I always dropped bombs on you before work.

Nicole [00:12:33]: Yeah, I had to go to work. So I'm on my way to work. John calls me. This is maybe like 10 minutes later. And he's like, no, I can't not be with you. And then he came, and I was like, I don't. You know, like, at first I was like, what's going on? And then you talked to me through it, and I realized you did want to be with me. So then you came back.

John [00:12:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:57]: And then, you know, we. Everything was kind of going along, like, normal again. And then one time in December, we go to dinner, and then we come back home and you're like, I have to leave. And I'm like, not again.

John [00:13:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:13]: And then again I'm like, okay, that's fine, but I'm not doing this. Like. Yeah, I'll put your stuff in the other room. You can come get it whenever.

John [00:13:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:23]: And I mean, I sent you, like, a text or something. Like, I appreciated the, like, things that you taught me while we were together. And I learned a lot. And I learned how to be a better person. And so I told you that. And then you were like, lets me together Again. So, like, it never, like, lasted very long at all. But we did technically break up twice.

John [00:13:44]: Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I couldn't follow through. Well, it's weird, too, because, like, even in the worst mental state that I've been, and this is why I tell guys, right? I tell guys. And this is true, divorce will be the worst thing that you'll ever go through in life. Even if you don't, like, the person you're with. It doesn't matter if you've been with someone for a long time or your life is built around, you know, a family, a marriage, divorce will be the worst than death. It will be the worst thing that you will ever experience because it is such a rift in your psyche. Like, it changes. It's such a rapid change. Right. Change is hard for people to handle. And then there's a lot of stuff that you're going to have to process that you haven't processed. And so even in the worst condition that I've ever been in my life, which was then, that was the worst I've ever been in my life, I knew that you were still the best thing. And so it was like there were points where I was so depressed that nothing in life felt like it had any meaning or that there was any hope in life. And that's how people, when they're really in depression, feel like there's no hope. But there was still this part of me that was like, yeah, but if this ever changes, even though it seems like there's no way this is ever gonna change, and you just feel like life is pointless, you will definitely be kicking yourself if you gave up the best thing that you ever had. You know what I mean? So even when I was like, I don't deserve it, but then it also created a conflict like this. I was torn because I'm like, well, yeah, but that's also kind of selfish because you can't do this to Nicole. So it was tough. I never didn't wanna be with you.

Nicole [00:15:37]: Well, that's the only reason I took you back all those times, is because you didn't just say the things. You showed me the things.

John [00:15:45]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:46]: So that was the difference. And plus, I knew our connection. I knew how you felt about me, you know, in those instances. Like, it was confusing. And it did take me and you a lot to work through those things, too, even after they happened. But you proved to me, yeah. That our love was real and that you made a mistake. But you knew, like, that we were supposed to be together. And, you know, Those sort of things. And don't get me wrong, you didn't go off and hook up with a bunch of people when we broke up, or you did do some crazy things, but again, you had lost your mind a little bit. But it wasn't anything that genuinely. I was like, he destroyed our relationship beyond repair. So this is the only circumstance, I would say, to take somebody back. But I think if I'm giving advice to people.

John [00:16:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:52]: Unless you're in a situation like this where, you know. And even if it doesn't make sense to people, because I'm sure plenty of people.

John [00:16:57]: Yeah, it's new.

Nicole [00:16:58]: When we broke up and knew that we were going through some crazy stuff, and they're probably like, what the hell's going on? But I also told one of my friends the other day that it kind of helped. I. I don't wish it had happened, you know, but it did. But it helped both of us realize that we could go through something really hard, especially, I know probably for you, because you said it's the lowest, worst you've ever been and that we could get through it, even though it was messy and whatever. Because like I said, even though we broke up, it was not for very long at all because it just. We knew that we needed to be together with each other. But for most people, I would say that's not the case. It's normally like a toxic, like, breaking up back and forth, and in that case, you should just let them go, don't take them back.

John [00:17:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:52]: But if, you know, you have a connection and there's, like, other circumstances and there are things that you can forgive. Like, if you're the person being broken up with, you can forgive it and move on or work through it or, like, you know that you and this person can work through the things that have happened and it's worth it to you. I say take somebody back, but it has to be that, like, extraordinary circumstance.

John [00:18:18]: Yeah, it has. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:18:20]: And you'll know if it is. Like, you'll know because you'll be operating in ways that are different, you know, like, even though, like I said when I was like, look, if we're done, we're done. That's how I normally would have operated. I still fought for you, and I still, like, when you came back, I still gave you the opportunity to be heard. I wasn't like, you, like, no, I'm done. Like, I mean, I was done, but, you know, I still also heard you out because I cared about you and that I could be swayed.

John [00:18:48]: Yeah. And I think. And also, I mean, like, what you said about our story. Yeah. What do we got, an hour? You know, it's like, we did this in 15 minutes. You know, we don't have eight hours to explain the entire story or, you know what I mean? Like, hearing the bits and pieces of it, people might be confused, or they're like, that's crazy. Or, I mean, if you just hear the bits and pieces, the highlights, it's like, you know, dawn was married, and then this. And then this happened. This happened. Like, you know, why would she, you know, even deal with this at all? And I get.

Nicole [00:19:28]: I ask myself that sometimes when I look at it subjectively. But.

John [00:19:33]: But there's a lot to our story. Like, there's so many details and so many things. We're just kind of given the quick version of it. But.

Nicole [00:19:40]: But that's what I'm trying to say, though. If you, like, know.

John [00:19:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:43]: And I feel like even from doing this podcast, and especially people who have interacted with you and I in person, like, you can just tell.

John [00:19:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:50]: We go together. And, like, I felt that, like, it's that when, you know, you know.

John [00:19:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:56]: Feeling. And like I said, you had always, like, said, what? Or, like, said, you're going to do something and done it and showed that to me. I don't think we could have got back together if you didn't do that. If you didn't. If you were all words or.

John [00:20:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:12]: Things were still kind of similar. Like, I mean, we had to both deal with a lot in those instances.

John [00:20:20]: Like. Yeah. And there are other circumstances to you. Like, one, I guess I didn't even mention this part is that I had left San Diego to go to Florida. I'd done that pretty quickly, and I'd left my daughter behind, Sophia. And in my crazy head, I thought, oh, well, we'll just visit every month or so. Maybe at first. Well, I'll get established, and then she'll just come and fly out here, and then I'll go and fly out there. And it was like, okay, Florida, San Diego. She's going to school, which you did do.

Nicole [00:20:54]: You flew out for her birthday. And then she came to visit us. And then, you know, we have other plans, too, but.

John [00:21:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:01]: Yeah. I knew from the beginning, though, that. Because when you told me that you had a kid, I was like, I don't want anything to come between that, you know, like your divorce. That's like your story with, like, your past and things like that. But I didn't want anything to, you know, affect her so when you left the second time, it was more about her. And I understood that.

John [00:21:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:25]: Better. I still felt, like, blindsided by you. Like, us going to dinner and then you being like, I'm leaving.

John [00:21:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:33]: You know, and then again, you broke up with me because you wanted to, like, figure, like, to deal with your emotions without them affecting me, but really, we were already too entwined for, like.

John [00:21:45]: Yeah, it.

Nicole [00:21:46]: To not affect me. The thing that could have worked if you did that in the very beginning. Maybe.

John [00:21:51]: Maybe.

Nicole [00:21:52]: You know, but.

John [00:21:53]: But I didn't have those emotions in the very beginning. That was the weird thing, was that I was. And like I said with the Sophia thing, I mean, it forced me to face the reality of the situation. And I think when I left, too, part of what I was thinking was I was like, oh, rather than me being there or trying to do some kind of split, she'll be better off just with her mom. And maybe her mom will take better care of her now. And, like, you know, she takes better care of her than I do anyway. And, like, it'll be better if I just visit her. She visits me. And, you know, that's what I was thinking at the time. That's not correct. Right. But that's what I was thinking at the time.

Nicole [00:22:41]: Right. And then I started to process a.

John [00:22:44]: Lot of things, and then I started to see how she was not better off, and then I started to panic, and that's where. But that's when I knew that I needed to be in San Diego. And then, you know. And then. Yeah. And then, you know, you came out. And at first I was thinking, I need to just be there by myself. And that wasn't.

Nicole [00:23:04]: Which you did do for the last time.

John [00:23:06]: Which I did. Which I did. Which I think that actually did help, because I think it was good for me to just clear my head, to just figure it out, to make sure that, you know, to just have that time to be able to do that. But. Yeah, but there's a lot. And I think the big thing, what I've been trying to get to, is that in our relationship, even though we had broken up, it was never about our relationship.

Nicole [00:23:35]: Right. That wasn't the reason we were breaking up.

John [00:23:37]: Right. It was these other circumstances, these other things, but it was never. We got into a fight and we broke up. Never. Or, you know, or we're upset at each other or something, and then we broke up, or this isn't working out. That was never. And I think that's really the difference. If you're in that kind of situation where it's not about the relationship, and for some reason, you know, you have to go to college or, you know, whatever it ends up being that someone might, you know, end up breaking up, then getting back together is okay because your circumstances have changed. It's not like you had an issue in the relationship. Because I think most of the advice, at least when I would tell someone the same thing is, hey, don't take someone back or don't get back together with your ex would be based around it didn't work the first time because.

Nicole [00:24:27]: Of the relationship problems.

John [00:24:29]: So it's not gonna work now. And you're just gonna get back into the same patterns that you were before. And if this person who's now coming back to you, if they are coming back, and this is what happens a lot of times, and this happened to me, if they're coming back and they're like, oh, I'm gonna do all these things that you wanted me to do. Now I'm gonna treat you right. Now I'm gonna. And they have the list, and they know all the things. That's tempting. Because then you're like, oh, wow, they're gonna do all the things I want.

Nicole [00:24:59]: No, see, I'd be like, so you knew the whole time and you didn't do it? That would make me. Stole my thunder.

John [00:25:05]: You stole my. That's what I.

Nicole [00:25:07]: That would make me. You were like, it's tempting. That would not be tempting at all.

John [00:25:11]: That was just my setup to say what? You stole my thunder.

Nicole [00:25:14]: Sorry. But, like, that would be just Night coffin, knife in the coffin for me. So you knew this whole time, and the second you lost it is when you're gonna treat me better. And to be honest, I would expect it to go right back to where it was. I would not expect to change. Because if you knew that whole time and you chose not to do it, you really expect me to believe that you're going to now do it consistently, right. And not revert back?

John [00:25:41]: And why wouldn't you have if you already knew it? You know what I mean?

Nicole [00:25:45]: Exactly.

John [00:25:45]: That's the thing is, at that point, it's the same thing. I mean, it's. It's a little bit of a different thing. But I always talk about, like, firing people, right? If I. You know, if I fire someone, I don't give them a warning. I don't tell them what they need to change. I point out mistakes that they've made or things, you know, and then once I made the decision, they're fired. There's no excuses. There's no saying, oh, I'll fix this or change this, because I know they won't. Because I know that if I've already set the expectations and the standards and they're not doing them now, if I threaten them and say I'm going to fire you if you don't do this, they will fix it temporarily and then they'll go right back to it because they already knew it. They weren't performing, they weren't living up to it. I've already made the decision. So it's the same type of thing as it's like, look, if you're in a relationship with someone and they understand what your needs are, what things that they need to change or fix, the things that are problems in the relationship that are their cause and they're not willing to do those things and if you leave them and then now they're willing to do it, going to be a temporary change.

Nicole [00:26:57]: True. So I have a question for you. If the tables were turned and I was doing this stuff, would you have taken me back both times?

John [00:27:06]: Yeah. Because it wasn't an issue in our relationship.

Nicole [00:27:09]: But do you think it'd be hard? Especially think it'd be harder on a man's ego?

John [00:27:15]: What you went through is hard. Extremely hard. I couldn't even imagine like all this stuff, so. Well, I went through my own, you know, crap. But mine was self imposed. Yours was?

Nicole [00:27:29]: Yes.

John [00:27:30]: Oh, I mean, well, you, you know, you did get on Tinder then.

Nicole [00:27:34]: I was single. I could be on Tinder.

John [00:27:38]: Yeah, but I'm just saying you never know what you're gonna get.

Nicole [00:27:40]: You shouldn't have been doing that.

John [00:27:43]: You did swipe on the guy with the douchey profile.

Nicole [00:27:46]: Yeah. And I told you, hey, you look nice, but you have a douchey profile. I fully expected it to end right there. But you, oh, hey, then you changed your profile and I was like, okay, he changed the profile.

John [00:27:57]: Yeah, so. But, but yeah, I mean, look, you.

Nicole [00:28:01]: Can'T put this on me.

John [00:28:02]: No, no, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just teasing you. No, no, obviously you didn't deserve any of that. But.

Nicole [00:28:07]: But yeah, I agree with what you said. If it's like something in your relationship where you guys have broken up because you guys aren't getting along, you're not compatible, something like that, those problems aren't gonna really fix themselves that much. But if it is something outside of that that's happening, then if you guys break up and they come back along and they seem to Got their stuff together now, and they're ready to be in a relationship that is your choice. I'm not saying even do it.

John [00:28:41]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:41]: I'm just saying if you feel.

John [00:28:44]: If it's worth it. Right.

Nicole [00:28:45]: If it feels worth it to you, if it feels like the right decision to you. Because that was the thing that every time that you and I went through this, I was never like, oh, I shouldn't be with him again. Because I could always tell how you felt about me. And I trusted you that if you worked on what you had going on, that you meant that and that things would be different moving forward. And you have always been that way. So I had confidence that we could figure this out. Even though I had some effects from that happening. Even though that's what you tried to avoid by breaking up with me?

John [00:29:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:22]: Like, we worked through those together. And, you know, it was still hard because I still think you did have a little bit of shame and guilt.

John [00:29:29]: Oh, yeah.

Nicole [00:29:30]: You know, but I think it turned from shame and guilt to your past to shame and guilt of what you did to me.

John [00:29:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:29:36]: You know, because of that. So then it was like that to work.

John [00:29:40]: I know. And then I was like, oh, I screwed up here, and now I screwed up the best thing, and now I screwed up everything in everybody's lives. Good job, John. And now you got to tell it on a podcast for the rest of your damn life. Everyone's going to judge you and be like, this is the cheating guy that gives people a relationship advice. Fuck this guy. You know, that's what it's going to be.

Nicole [00:30:00]: So here's the thing. They might be thinking that, but at the same time, like, I feel like I really value making the right decision, and people need to trust. If I am still choosing to be with you, it's because you're the most amazing man, despite the mistakes that you've made. And that is genuinely how I feel. And nobody's perfect. Like, have we been through a mess? Yes. But I think it's made us better than perfect.

John [00:30:32]: And our relationship is always strong.

Nicole [00:30:34]: We got there, and like I said, you know, what is it? Love is blind, where they're like, we kind of want to get into an argument before we walk down the aisle. Like I said before, we had been through something really hard. So by the time you even proposed to me and we walked down the aisle, we knew that we could get through that and that we could get through anything that might come up. Because, like you said, those were still external things that they were affecting. You Internally. But if we're coming from a unified front from now on, there's nothing that you and I can't handle exterior. Because we have a good, solid foundation of our love for each other and us together. But I agree, if you're not there, like, if this person is not your person, like, you genuinely feel that they're different and they treat you the way you want to be treated and all of that sort of things that, you know, makes you feel connected to the person and that they're the ones, then if you want to take them back, then you should. Like, nobody should judge you. Like you said, you're scared to be judged. We're putting ourselves out there. I'm scared to be judged. I took you back after you broke up with me twice. I get it. But at the same time, I'm like, nobody knows you and me the way that you and I do, and it was worth it to me.

John [00:32:04]: And I'll say this as a side note, too, just for guys. I mean, it applies to women as well. But the big thing that I was struggling with too, during that year period was I was like, it would have been so much better if I got a divorce, had a year to process that, and then met Nicole. That would have been the perfect timeline. Now, of course, that timeline, what an.

Nicole [00:32:30]: Actual perfect timeline would be, you know, if you're not in a relationship where you're being treated properly, you should leave.

John [00:32:37]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:32:38]: Because you don't want to get stuck, you know, in a situation that you don't feel like is the right one for you. And then time ticks on, and then now you're fighting against time and other circumstances, you know, too. But I agree with the. At least the divorce part.

John [00:32:56]: But so, yeah, so a year would have been nice. You know what I mean? And that's what I was struggling with. I was like, ah, this would be so much easier if I just had a year to process this, and then everything would be great. And that's why I was like, I have to break up with her because I need time to process it, you know? And it's hard to emotionally process something when you're emotionally involved with someone, you know, so it makes things hard to do that. So don't do that to yourself. And that's also why don't have affairs, is because that literally will mean you will have no time to process the previous thing. I mean, it's bad for other reasons, but also that you won't have time to process. Right. And so you don't think that you're going to need time, but you do need time to process. It is very hard to keep it together. That's why most affairs end up not working out. When people get together after an affair is because that transition is not a clean transition. It needs to be a clean transition.

Nicole [00:33:56]: Well, don't have a few, right?

John [00:33:57]: Oh, yeah, I mean, obviously. But also just to think about, you know, people talk about the rebound. If you go through a breakup, a significant breakup or a divorce, give yourself a year, maybe two years before you get into a serious relationship again. That's the smart advice.

Nicole [00:34:20]: Because you're gonna feel like people do do that. It's just when they.

John [00:34:23]: Not people. All right, ready to go get on the dating apps? I'm like, don't do it.

Nicole [00:34:30]: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.

John [00:34:35]: But I think also on the take back thing too, that it makes sense. Also if someone has demonstrated change.

Nicole [00:34:44]: Right. Well, that has to be the thing. That has to be. That's why the actions have to match the words. Like, you have to demonstrate it, you have to show it.

John [00:34:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:53]: Over time, even with our connection, there's no way, like I said before, we would have lasted if you didn't show me.

John [00:35:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:00]: That there was a difference. But I already knew you were that type of person, so I expected that. But if you didn't, then, you know, obviously this wouldn't have worked out the way that it did now. But I think it's. Relationships are complicated and we come on here and we try to tell people the best way to do the things. And it's because we've done and been through the messy things too. You know, like, we're not perfect. But that's why we feel better than perfect. Because we've been through the imperfect times and we've broken up and, you know, we've. You've had a mental breakdown and, you know, we're still here. We made it through those things.

John [00:35:40]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:41]: And it gives you more confidence in your relationship. I'm not saying go break up so that you build more confidence either, but I'm just saying that, you know, don't feel like, oh, I can't take this person back because then I'll look this certain way. Or.

John [00:35:56]: Yeah, it should not be about that.

Nicole [00:35:57]: You can't, you can't do that because it has to be about the relationship. And that's what I had to do in all of those messy situations that we were in back then is be like, look, I'm gonna look ridiculous. Like, I'm gonna look like A pushover. I'm gonna look like some woman that's getting walked all over by some man that's just breaking up with her. But I knew that that wasn't the reality. And even if people thought that was, I was okay with them misunderstanding it because our relationship was the best relationship that I'd ever had. So it's like, even though these things were happening and they were really hard and they hurt really bad, it was still, like, worth it to take you back and to move forward and make our relationship better and stronger than we ended up here.

John [00:36:50]: And it helped a lot, too. Just, I mean, I think once I got back to San Diego and I was being a good parent to Sofia, then it was like a lot of the guilt and the shame disappeared. You know what I mean? I felt like I was back on track and doing what I was supposed to be doing. Because it's hard to. When you have something so good. That was also part of the thing. When you have something so good, you feel like you don't really deserve that because you did something bad to get it, you know?

Nicole [00:37:26]: Right.

John [00:37:26]: You know, that's.

Nicole [00:37:26]: I try to get that. That's also why I don't have affairs.

John [00:37:29]: Yeah. It's hard to get past that, though, in your head. Like, you have to, really, because you have to realize, okay, well, this is what it is now, and you have to let that stuff go. And people make mistakes and they do wrong things. But, yeah. You know, so. So, yeah, so there's. There's a lot to it, for sure.

Nicole [00:37:44]: I mean, hey, before you even came along, and I got cheated on a long time ago. Go back to the cheating episode.

John [00:37:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:52]: They. My best friend and my boyfriend at the time cheated together. And then they, you know, got married, they had a kid, you know, and I was like, how can you have a foundation built on this? You know, they, like, both cheated. She also had a boyfriend at the time, but. And I'm not saying what they did was right.

John [00:38:11]: No, no. But.

Nicole [00:38:12]: But I'm saying, you know, it didn't really seem to bother them that much. They kept going. And I'm not saying that it's the right thing by any means, but, you know, sometimes that happens and it's sucks, like, it should be avoided. Like you said, like, if you're planning to get a divorce or you don't, you can't be in your marriage anymore. Get a divorce. Don't have an affair. Get a divorce.

John [00:38:34]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:38:35]: And then take a year or two to process it.

John [00:38:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:38]: And then go back out there. Like, that's the correct way. So I'm not promoting cheating by any means before all the people come for me.

John [00:38:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:45]: No, in the comments, like we mentioned in the beginning of this episode, you know, they always just want to grab one little piece and go for it. But, you know, it's. Life isn't always perfectly clean cut looks the way that you want it to be. Like, sometimes you gotta go through the mess to get to the good stuff.

John [00:39:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:05]: And that is definitely what we had to do. But back to. Should you take somebody back?

John [00:39:12]: Yeah, I mean, that's. Well, okay. So I would say, I think one that comes up a lot is the alcoholic or drug user type of thing where there's no. Well, actually, so if a person. If the reason why you, you know, the breakup occurred was because of someone having issues like that, but then they have cleaned up their life and demonstrated it, not just told you and not just said that they will, but have demonstrated this for six months. They're clean, they're got their life on track, they're good.

Nicole [00:39:49]: Now I would say I would have to do two years.

John [00:39:53]: I think two years of being clean.

Nicole [00:39:56]: I mean, like, that's a big deal. It affects a lot of people around you. And then a lot of times people act like they're not responsible for their behaviors. In those instances, two years for me.

John [00:40:07]: I mean, that's a long. That's a long time. I would say that six months is. Is good. I mean, it depends on the person. Depends on the situation. Right. And it depends on if it's. Yeah. How extreme their life was turned upside down. I would. I would say. But. But I think in those situations, that is also a place, like there's a difference between someone coming back because they're like, oh, I'm gonna fix all these things, and I'm sorry I did these things to you, and whatever. And you have a toxic relationship versus someone whose life is messed up. They straighten up their life, they come back. You know, again, it comes down to is it a relationship issue or not? Right. Because if you have a relationship and you can't fix it in the relationship and it's a relationship issue, it's not gonna get fixed outside of it. When you don't, like the relationship is for you to work on that.

Nicole [00:40:59]: But the thing is with the addiction and the alcohol, that does affect the other person a lot of the time.

John [00:41:06]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:07]: And the other person is so addicted to the substance or the alcohol that that doesn't even cross their mind. And so that's why I think it'd take longer. Like, for me, personally. Yeah, six months just seems like an. An easy amount of time to relapse in my mind. I almost said a year, but I think I would do too. Just like. Yeah, you know, have it really there. Because I understand that addiction is. It's really hard to not be addicted to something. Yeah, it's really hard. So that's why it would need to be. And I think that that, like, substance abuse and alcohol abuse and things like that typically do damage the relationship. And so I think that that's also why you would need more time to figure out, because even if it's not intentional, it's still inflicting damage on the relationship. And the person that's addicted doesn't even have a full grasp of it.

John [00:42:12]: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, it is a severe circumstance. But what else was I going to say? The other thing I was going to say is about, like, if you do take someone back, how do you take them back in terms of. And this would be more akin to if there are relationship issues, but you're going to work through them, which, again, is a. Kind of a danger zone. But that's why I would say in that situation. Right. Because I've had guys that I've coached that have had broken up with a woman for some pretty good reasons, and then she wants to come back. Well, actually, I guess that's her wanting to come back after they've broken up, which is kind of weird because I guess that scenario can happen. Right. So there's two scenarios that can happen. Right. You can break up with someone and then you could try to come back to them, and then should they take you back? Or you could break up with someone and you both kind of go your separate ways, and then the person you broke up with comes back and wants to change the things for the reason why you broke up with them. That's also a taking back.

Nicole [00:43:20]: Yeah.

John [00:43:21]: Did I make it too complicated?

Nicole [00:43:22]: No. So you can either break up with somebody and then you choose to take them back or not, or you break up with somebody and then they try to come back because they're trying to fix the things.

John [00:43:31]: And. Yeah. And so in that scenario, that's where I've given the advice of, okay, now you've got to be really clear about the standards that you have. Right. And they have to meet those things.

Nicole [00:43:45]: Here's how I feel about that. About the person breaking up and then someone coming back.

John [00:43:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:52]: Because they worked on the things.

John [00:43:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:56]: Unless it was very Obvious. And the things seemed, like, pretty permanent. Ingrained at this point. I still don't know if I'd take somebody back.

John [00:44:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:08]: Like. Because here's the thing. It's gonna be a lot harder to work through that. Even if the person has changed and you take them back, like, you're still gonna be almost triggered. What if they're gonna act this way so they have to have patience with you.

John [00:44:27]: Right. Right.

Nicole [00:44:28]: You might put too much pressure on them where they have to be perfect and never mess up, or you'll get upset with them and think they're going back to who they were.

John [00:44:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:38]: So that's gonna take a lot.

John [00:44:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:41]: So can it be done? Yes.

John [00:44:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:44:44]: Do I think it should be done most of the time? Again, probably not. Because at the end of the day, I think it's easier to take what you learned from someone breaking up with you and being like, you know, you didn't listen to my feelings or whatever they say. That is the reason. Take that.

John [00:45:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:02]: Work on it. To be a person that, like, is healing that part of them.

John [00:45:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:45:08]: And then move on to a different relationship, because it's just going to be really hard. And I don't know if everybody wants it bad enough in that situation to really work through it now. If they do, I think it can work. I do. But I don't think that people want to work that hard in a relationship.

John [00:45:34]: Yeah. There has to be true remorse. Like, a true. You know, like, not to get into the specifics of the detail of the situation that I dealt with with one of my coaching clients. But.

Nicole [00:45:45]: But.

John [00:45:47]: The woman had tried to come back to him multiple times after he had broken up with her for some specific reasons. And every time she was trying to come back, she was like, I miss you. It wasn't, I'm sorry I did this or disrespected you constantly, or it's like. Right.

Nicole [00:46:06]: Sounds like she was just, why are.

John [00:46:07]: You being so difficult? It was almost like, why are you making a big deal out of nothing? It's like, that's showing that. All right. It's not. Nothing has changed here. Right.

Nicole [00:46:17]: But that's also what men say a lot to women, too. Why are you making a big deal?

John [00:46:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:21]: Thing.

John [00:46:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:22]: So it's like men can kind of see the frustrating part. Right. When a man expresses what bothers him. And then a woman's kind of like, why are you making a big deal?

John [00:46:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:46:30]: You know, so. And I agree with that. That, like, she never was saying, like, I am sorry I hurt you. And I'm sorry I did these things. Which that's why, too, that she keeps saying, I miss you. I miss you. And then the last time she says the right thing, I wouldn't trust that personally.

John [00:46:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:48]: I'd be like, now you just figured out the right way to say something. So that's why. Unless it's a. Unless you feel like this is your soulmate, this is your person.

John [00:46:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:46:59]: They're going through a hard time, but they're really trying. And you, like, know that person well enough and you think the relationship is worth saving.

John [00:47:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:08]: Don't take somebody back. Go on to something else.

John [00:47:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:13]: And because it could be better for you.

John [00:47:18]: Yeah. And it's like. And once someone has sort of abused you in a certain way, it's so much easier for them to do it again because they've crossed the line. It's sort of like that. That book you're reading on the child called It. Is that what it's called? Right. And it's like, you read that. If you're familiar with it, for everyone that's not familiar, it's an extreme case of child abuse. And you're kind of like, how could this mother do this to this boy? And she didn't treat the other kids like this. And what was going on? And it's like, well, once you've done it to someone, now it's easier to keep on doing it to them. And it's a weird psychological thing that happens with us. But it's like, once you've done it, that's why the once a cheater, always a cheater is also a thing, but it's more contextual. Once you've cheated on someone, you're more likely to cheat on that same person. Now, yeah, obviously, you're more likely to cheat in general. I get it. But I'm saying that in that specific case, that's why it becomes a thing. And that's why when you take someone back who's already like, for example, in this situation, if a woman has been extremely disrespectful to you as a man, and you take it back, and she says, I'm gonna be respectful, I apologize, whatever. She's already crossed some boundaries. If she's already called you, said, I.

Nicole [00:48:37]: Hate you, she probably still doesn't look at you in a respectful light, she's gonna try to convince herself, which isn't her actually believing it. Does that make sense? So that's where it's like, some things are better. Just leave it and move on. But, like, I said, the only thing that I will say to go for it is if you feel like it's the relationship for you, like your soulmate, the person you're supposed to be with, and that they still love and care about you. Because that's the thing is, like, I always felt like you loved me and you cared about me, and that never went away.

John [00:49:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:17]: And if it had, then we probably wouldn't be here right now, but it didn't. So that's the difference. And I think that you can tell where someone really loves you, but they're going through a hard time or you know something's going on in their life versus someone doesn't really respect you or always show you love, and then now they're like, breaking up with you and it's like, should you really go back to that? Like, is it worth going back to?

John [00:49:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:47]: Yeah, like, because you have to look at it like, if I go back to this relationship and it turns out the exact same, am I going to be pissed and leave again?

John [00:49:57]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:58]: If you genuinely think it's. You're going to go back and it's going to be the same, do not go back.

John [00:50:03]: Yeah. Well, some people get to the point where they're like, well, you know, it just. I don't want to be alone.

Nicole [00:50:10]: That's horrible.

John [00:50:11]: Like, being alone is sucky. So they're like, oh, well, at least the familiar evil.

Nicole [00:50:16]: Don't even get me started going back.

John [00:50:18]: To the thing that was not so bad. Maybe it wasn't so bad. Maybe I just thought it would be better, I could do better. And now.

Nicole [00:50:28]: So you're going to. That's what, compromise your whole life because you don't want to be alone for however long until you find somebody that's better fit for you is what I hear.

John [00:50:37]: Yeah, that's what a lot of people end up thinking.

Nicole [00:50:40]: And you know what? Those people need to be alone because they probably can't. They don't know how to be alone.

John [00:50:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:46]: Because that's horrible.

John [00:50:47]: Or they feel bad.

Nicole [00:50:48]: Do you think the person. Granted this person's maybe not treating you the best, but do you think that that person deserves to be with somebody who doesn't really want to be with them, who just doesn't want to be alone? I don't think anybody deserves that.

John [00:51:00]: No. No.

Nicole [00:51:01]: I don't think people deserve to be abused or whatever. But I also don't think that you should fight fire with fire and be like, well, this person abusing me and I don't want to be alone. So I'll just stay.

John [00:51:11]: Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:12]: That sounds like everybody's miserable.

John [00:51:14]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:17]: But I hope we actually answered the question because we did dive a little bit more into ours. But I think it's important because.

John [00:51:24]: Because we violate the rule, you know?

Nicole [00:51:27]: Well, but in the instance, too, it's like, you have to trust your gut.

John [00:51:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:31]: Because either way, if you listen to somebody, be like, don't take people back. Like I could have done, we wouldn't be here.

John [00:51:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:38]: Like, I could have been like, no, Nicole, like, don't take him back. It's the principle of it.

John [00:51:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:43]: Like you're gonna look like this, like, we wouldn't be here. But in my gut, I was like, this is a good man. He's just going through a hard time. He loves me. And that's what kept me, you know, coming back to you.

John [00:51:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:59]: All those times where you tried to run away from me. I'm just kidding.

John [00:52:03]: Well, and it was also like. Like you're saying is that I didn't want to break up with you.

Nicole [00:52:08]: Right. Even said it was the moment you.

John [00:52:10]: Literally said, like, that's something I need to do. It's not something I want to do.

Nicole [00:52:15]: Right. You protect me by doing something that was hurtful. But I get.

John [00:52:21]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:22]: I guess, the idea behind it.

John [00:52:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:52:24]: But. And those instances, you know, like I said, you have to see how you feel about the situation. If it's about your relationship and you guys are breaking up, like you said, don't go back. It's gonna be very hard to fix.

John [00:52:39]: Yeah. Because you could have fixed it when you had the relationship. Right. That's what I'm saying, is that it's not going to suddenly magically be fixed.

Nicole [00:52:47]: Right.

John [00:52:47]: If you have issues you didn't work through, then if you do get back together, you're gonna have to work through those issues. So it's not gonna be easy. So if you didn't do it, why didn't you do it when you could have?

Nicole [00:52:57]: Right.

John [00:52:57]: You know what I'm saying? If it came down to that.

Nicole [00:52:59]: Because it would have been worth it to you in that instance too, if you got to a point of breaking up.

John [00:53:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:05]: Besides, like your situation where you thought that you were doing it for me. If you're breaking up with somebody because you don't want to be with them.

John [00:53:11]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:13]: Done. Done. There is no take backsies.

John [00:53:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:16]: Like, even if they come back and they want to do everything, I don't think you should do it. Yeah. Now, if it's an outside circumstance, like Years where you're like, I'm trying not to hurt you while I'm processing this, or like, I have to move away for college, but I love you and you genuine, you know, certain things like that.

John [00:53:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:34]: Yeah. If it feels right to you, you don't have to. But if it feel. Feels right to you, but if it's about your relationship or it's like you don't. I wouldn't risk it.

John [00:53:43]: But now you do ski. So.

Nicole [00:53:47]: If someone breaks up with you because you don't ski, you tell them to kick rocks because the. You can't fix that.

John [00:53:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:55]: But. Yeah. So hopefully.

John [00:53:58]: And a lot of times, too, the. The thing is, too, you don't want to be like, the. The default choice as well. Right. So it's like, a lot of times if someone breaks up with you and then they come back to you.

Nicole [00:54:10]: Right.

John [00:54:11]: Because they're like, oh, well, actually, I guess I'm not as much of a stud as I thought I was. It's like, all right. Yeah, I guess, you know, you weren't that bad. Like, it's like, you know.

Nicole [00:54:22]: Absolutely not.

John [00:54:22]: No, that's not the. Yeah, that's not the one. That's not. The thing is, like, to let me just see what else is out there, and if I don't find anything better, well, then, hey, you know, hello again.

Nicole [00:54:33]: That should go without saying that that is not good. Do not do it. Is the time for.

John [00:54:41]: Yeah, I guess we'd. Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:42]: Our thing for the week.

John [00:54:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:45]: I mean, so we had, like, a conversation and you were upset because you felt like I didn't, like, fully trust you. I feel like it's not even a point to like, bring up what it was because it was just like a really small thing.

John [00:55:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:55:01]: What the conversation was actually about. But the meaning of it was a big thing. You felt like I didn't fully trust you, and I didn't want you to feel that way. I wasn't trying to make you feel that way. I felt like I was having, like, a boundary about something. But you felt like I didn't trust you and your judgment or that I didn't believe that you were, you know, looking out for me or something like that. So we ended up having a pretty lengthy discussion. But it wasn't.

John [00:55:38]: Yeah. Bad.

Nicole [00:55:39]: It just still came off a little, like, hostile.

John [00:55:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:55:44]: Which at the end of the conversation we realized was also some of the things from, like, you're kind of like, go to demeanor because of how you had to be before. It's almost like, you know, A trained response because of the relationship you were in for so long and you've done it before. And I know that it is not directed towards me.

John [00:56:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:10]: But it's like I had to bring it up so that you could acknowledge it, so that it could stop being the automatic response. Does that make sense? And then you. You have had a hard time sometimes. Not now, but you did, because you did acknowledge it then, like, acknowledging that that was a result of that.

John [00:56:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:56:30]: And I think you felt like maybe I was trying to shame you for it or bring something up to dig at you, but it was really just so that you could realize that you were falling into a kind of pattern based on what you had dealt with before.

John [00:56:46]: Yeah, I think in my mind, it was more like if you say that it was something that I had dealt with from before, then it invalidates the current issue because there still is something that I am upset about.

Nicole [00:56:58]: Right.

John [00:56:58]: Even though something from the past may have triggered my response.

Nicole [00:57:02]: Right.

John [00:57:02]: Which I got once I understood that. Now I understand that that does not conflate or that does not diminish the other side of things. And it helped me, too, because, you know, that I finally acknowledge and process that, which, I mean, within the last week, I've handled things a lot differently. Like, just even just little things where I might have gotten upset before and then. And again, people have to understand, too, when we say hostile.

Nicole [00:57:33]: It's not normal hostile.

John [00:57:36]: It just means not being loving. Right? Not being loving. Dove. It's like it means just using normal language instead of good, nice language. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's not.

Nicole [00:57:47]: But it is hostile in our situation because they just don't talk that way.

John [00:57:51]: So.

Nicole [00:57:52]: But I agree that most people would not call it hostile because they're used to yelling and screaming.

John [00:57:57]: It's like, you know, if you drive in a car at 100 miles an hour, it doesn't feel any different than driving at 20. But if you get in the Tesla and you put the pedal to the metal and you go from 20 to 100 in five seconds, you feel that. Because what you feel is a change in speed, the acceleration. And so it's the same thing. It's like, hey, if your normal conversations are at like, 20 miles per hour, or maybe your normal conversations are 100 miles per hour, whatever it is, if you have a change in that, that you'll feel quickly.

Nicole [00:58:33]: Yeah, yeah.

John [00:58:34]: So that's the thing. But anyway, my point is that I realized that I was doing that and why I was Doing that. So then I dropped that defense and just started just speaking openly when something came up, you know, like, there was. You had a book club thing and you didn't introduce me to you.

Nicole [00:58:57]: I'm so sorry. I was like, people showed up at one time, and I'm like, oh, my God. And then people are trying to get in the gate, then our power goes off. Right. Before the book club, it was a mess.

John [00:59:07]: So I was just like. Well, and then before then, we were ordering pizza, you know, you didn't ask me what I wanted on the pizza, you know, and, like, again, I wasn't super, super offended by it, but I was a little bit. So I just brought it. I just said it to you. I just said, oh, you didn't ask me what I wanted to be. That's all I need to say. I didn't, like. So I wasn't hostile about it. Right. And then you just obviously apologize, you know, I forgot, you know, and so. And that was fine. And that was a better way to handle. So it gave me a tool to be. Because I felt safe to just. I don't know why I didn't feel safe to do that before. Right.

Nicole [00:59:43]: I guess because it wasn't safe before.

John [00:59:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:59:46]: Well, that's the thing.

John [00:59:46]: Not with you. It was always safe with you.

Nicole [00:59:48]: But. Yeah, no, but I mean, like, before, in your previous relationship, it wasn't safe. And so that's why every time that you had reacted that way, I knew it. I didn't take it personal because I knew it was what you had to, like, switch on in order to even make it through a hard conversation. But at the same time, you're not in that space anymore. And so I have to bring it to your attention so that you can adjust that. Right. And I'm not expecting you to be perfect. I'm not expecting you to not slip up a little bit like a shelter dog. Exactly. That is what it's like, you know, like, unfortunately, that's. That's. That is what it is. Because you get so used to trying to protect yourself in a situation that doesn't seem safe, that even when you get in a safe place, you're like, you know, ready for attack at any time, even though it's not coming.

John [01:00:39]: Yeah, he's such a sweet dog. But don't fart around him. He'll bite your ass. He doesn't like farts.

Nicole [01:00:47]: Where did that come from? Sure. Yeah. That's you, John, if that's how you want to describe your situation, we're talking about here Fine. But, yeah, so, no, it's been good.

John [01:01:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:03]: Besides that, you know, and then that wasn't even bad.

John [01:01:06]: But we figure out little pieces, you know, and. And. And there was something that. How you were interacting with me that you made some changes to. I don't even remember now. It might have been even last week or so. And we're both working together, and we're both implementing the changes together, which is making things just smoother. You know what I mean? It prevents anything from even coming up.

Nicole [01:01:28]: Yeah, well. And you have to be there to help your partner through the things, like seeing you get hostile and defensive. Like, I just wanted to help you with it. Right. Because I could see where it was coming from. Like, I want to help you not feel that way, to not feel unsafe, even though I know you know it's safe. You know you know it's safe. Your body's still reacting like it's not. And I just want to help you not feel that way. Just like you tell me all the time, you're like, I want you to feel, you know, safe and not have to worry about anything. And.

John [01:02:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:01]: You know, that's also why I went back to you all those times, too, is because I knew you cared, and I knew that you wouldn't cheat on me. You wouldn't leave me again. Like, I. And if you did, then that really would have been the third time, would have been the last time. But there's no third time. But I know that after all that we went through.

John [01:02:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:24]: If something were to happen, like, then we would have just called it quits because we've tried really hard.

John [01:02:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:31]: But instead, we used all of that stuff and made us better, and we keep getting better because we've. We learned how to get through that, and we've learned how to help each other grow and us as individuals. And so there's genuinely nothing that I feel like we could face and not get through together.

John [01:02:51]: Yeah. Yeah. Good. All right, well, I mean, I don't think we can really end this episode without me checking our itunes. Oh, let's see. I should have just had this pulled up, but, you know, but I do have the search on already ready to go. Better than perfect podcast. Let's see. Because what if someone left a review and then they're like, they told me that they would give me.

Nicole [01:03:16]: Yeah, we don't want to leave you guys hanging.

John [01:03:19]: No, no, no.

Nicole [01:03:21]: Nothing.

John [01:03:22]: Nothing.

Nicole [01:03:24]: Dang.

John [01:03:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:25]: You guys hate us.

John [01:03:26]: We'll just go home and cry. All right. Oh, but do leave a review.

Nicole [01:03:32]: Yeah.

John [01:03:33]: On iTunes, Spotify, whatever you. Whatever you like. I mean, I didn't check Spotify, but I'm just, you know, iTunes is the de facto. I'll check Spy Tunes. The spy Tunes? Yeah, Spy tunes. All right. Through every fault we find our way.