John: That's just the message to ladies in their 30s and 40s who are tired of playing games. They just want to be upfront and be honest, and I get it, and it makes sense. Except, don't do it. You do have to play a game. So, as a woman, you don't need to be like, "I'm looking for a serious relationship," because you can also turn a hoe into a husband. You just got to do the right tactic. Get him confused, show him a boob, get him confused, flashbang. He's like, "What the hell is going on? What happened here?" Exactly, like, not even know what happened, and here we are. Then you get the ring, ladies. Beyond that, we, through our flaws, we complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault, we find our way. Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we show you how two imperfect people help each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. And we also finish each other's sentences, I guess, too.

Nicole: I got stuck on the "share" or "show" you. We share with you, we show you, which, I mean, seems the same but different. But which sounds better? I don't know. Is it like, "We show you"? We share... Oh, we show. Yeah, we show you. That's what it's supposed to be. That's what I said. Actually, I have no idea what "show" you... Mak, I don't even know what I just said. It could be officially whatever we want it to be.

John: So true. We get to choose. So, uh, oh, so we actually did have something that was kind of small talky to talk about today, which was the new season of Love is Blind that we're watching. We're going to have to start live streaming our reaction to Love is Blind, yeah, next season. We didn't do it this season.

Nicole: Yeah, we were kind of behind at first, but now we're up to date. But it's pretty interesting, pretty interesting show. I mean, we've already talked about this, but it's just hard because I don't feel like any of them are really there for the right reasons anymore.

John: Yeah, it doesn't. But it's fun to watch different people interact and see how they handle things. And how, I don't know, it's just like a human psychology kind of thing where you're like, "Oh, that's interesting," even though it's edited and all of these things. But it is still interesting, especially because, like, I know that the Chelsea girl has been getting a lot of hate on the internet.

Nicole: Oh yeah, that's a good deal. But it's like, yeah, is she a little insecure? Sure. Yeah, but he, whatever his name is, Jimmy, is not really making her feel secure, so it's like making it worse. So it seems extreme, but what people aren't validating is that Jimmy is perpetuating this with all the ways he acts, the way he responds.

John: Uh, having girlfriends that he's banged before, like, the list could go on. But it's just funny how, like, even people's reaction to it, they don't even see also the things that he's doing to make her further into this. And it kind of goes to the point that you're making, that women acting in a way that's needy or dependent on a man or whatever, that a lot of people attack women for doing that. And again, I mean, she's like, the insecurity is not exactly the same, but I mean, he called her clingy in the episode, and that's not cool at all.

Nicole: Yeah, like you said, the people are more focused on what she's doing than what he's doing, when it's like they're both doing it. But it makes her look so bad that people want to focus on that. But really, it's like she's just being a woman, and she's responding to how he's reacting to her. And now she looks super insecure, and people are like, "Oh, this is horrible." And it's almost trying to make women harder and be like, "Yeah, why are you having these emotions? Why do you care? Let him go out and go drink with his girlfriend that he used to bang all the time." Like, what? No, you don't have to be a pick-me girl where you're like, "Oh, I'm the cool girlfriend." You know what I mean? Like, go out with your girlfriends and drink. It's like, do you care? Yeah, if it's like that. I don't know, like, you don't have to be going to the extreme, but everybody has some form of insecurities, and I think hers are just being heightened because he's not treating her properly.

John: Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that their whole relationship is the best example from the show, just like what a lot of things we talk about too, like conflict resolution too. Because they have conflicts, like her problems of her emotional hurts, and then she reacts in a way that's pretty disrespectful, calling him a liar and stuff like that. Right? And then they meet up the next day, and they make up, and they say, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry," but they never actually resolve the underlying issue. So, her feelings are still there, that never gets resolved, and then him, the way that she called him a liar, doesn't feel right. So neither of those things get resolved. So then they're paving over the thing, and then it's just going to come back. And that's, and that's, and I think that was so important because that is just a great example for people that are watching that show, is that that's how you get out of the honeymoon phase. That's exactly how it happens, is because you have conflicts, which are inevitable, and then the conflicts don't get resolved properly. So they get paved over, and then that's called resentment. Grudges build over time, you start to actually not like the person you're with. You might even still be attracted to them, but you don't like them. You might love them, but you don't like them. And when you don't like them, that's a problem. Right? So, yeah, I think Johnny and Amy are the only ones that should get married.

Nicole: Yeah, but even they have their own little things, but they at least seem to really like each other and respect each other and have fun with each other. And you know, talk things out and handle things. So, yeah. But drop a comment if you'd like us to do a live stream of the next season. Well, you know, if you're interested in it. But I think it's good if you like this podcast, and you would like that show on Netflix because it's about relationships. That's why we like it. So, right. Exactly. So, all right, I guess we should jump into the topic for today. So, interesting things. So, some people were commenting, they were asking about the three-week abstinence thing that we went through.

John: Yeah, so I thought a good topic for today, based on that, and we could talk about various other things as well, is sex. Let's talk. Just, it'll just be broad, you know. Like, I'm sure we'll do other episodes where we talk about more specific, detailed things about sex, but, or not. No, our parents watch this. But we'll just talk about it in terms of relationship, like the questions people have, a couple of tips, you know, things like that.

John: You know how to make it good, like, yeah, like where does it fall in place in the relationship? How important is it, I think so, yeah. So maybe we could start with the three-week, you know, the question everyone's asking. Like, why did we do that? What was the outcome? What did you believe about it? Well, I guess we got to go back to why we did it.

Nicole: Yeah, so it's like when we first got together, you had had some things from your past that you were concerned about, and you talked to me about those. I kind of took it as like I was doing something wrong, which isn't what you were saying, but I got kind of afraid and internalized that. Then, even though we had talked about it, I was still putting pressure on myself in regards to some of those things.

John: And so I had felt that, and then you were feeling your type of way, which I'll let you explain for yourself. But like, you had your things that you were dealing with, and so we were kind of stuck. I think we did talk about that we were in a gridlock. So it was like, how I, what the things that I was putting on myself, even though that wasn't the reality, had me stuck. Then the things that you were going through, because we were both going through something from each side at a time, we were kind of stuck. And the weird thing about it, I'll add to it, is that we weren't stuck in the sense that we weren't being intimate or whatever. Our sex life was still beyond fantastic. It was just that we were stuck in our own roadblocks to just different hang-ups or things, emotional other part of it, not the actual intimacy part.

Nicole: Exactly, more of like, you know, I'll talk about mine because I want to talk about yours. Like, am I engaging in this enough that he wants? Is it this way enough for him? Is he going to be upset if I don't feel very well and don't really want to do it tonight? You know, those were some of my things that I was putting on myself. And then I didn't also want to upset you because I care about you, not because I'm people-pleasing you, but because I care about you and what you want. But at the same time, I need to talk about what I'm going through. So it was just a really tough place.

John: Yeah, and so we decided to, you know, nothing for three weeks, even though there was one time where there was something that happened technically didn't cross the line, but I think technically it did cross the line. But we gave ourselves a little grace. I mean, we did pretty damn good, especially considering what our normal schedule is.

Nicole: Agree.

John: And to talk to what you're saying, on my side of it, obviously, and this is a common thing I think that a lot of couples will relate to, the frequency type of issue and the pressures. And even like you said, it wasn't something that I was putting on you, it was something that we had a doc a long time ago, and you were putting on yourself at that point. But it still affected because then for me, I didn't feel the natural desire as much because, obviously, in the case when you're thinking about stressing about these things, then it's just not seeming to come from a natural place. Right, and so we wanted to get back to like, okay, let's take a hiatus for three weeks, for two reasons. One, to get back to just a natural right, so like break any kind of patterns of whatever. And then two, I think also to make it clear also that, you know, I think every woman has the insecurity that a guy, if he doesn't get sex, then he's going to disappear, he's not going to love her anymore. And sometimes that's true. So just to make you feel completely confident about that, about me, because I then that's something that I wanted. And I was the one who came up with this idea, by the way, not you know. So just I think because that's, and that was my primary thinking when I came up with the idea. But I think it was a good, you know, I think it also brought out some conflicts as well. I think during the time because I think sometimes maybe some conflicts are avoided when there is sex because you don't want to mess up the sex that you know is going to happen that night. So you may not actually get into some of the conflicts that you should. And so it was actually good because there were several things that we had to go through and discuss that ended up really, I think, bringing us closer together at the end of that. And then I think sometimes, and we don't really do this, but I think a lot of people also use sex as a sort of, you know, you hear the angry sex reset everything, wipe it away rather than resolving it. Right, and that's exactly what we just talked about at the beginning, is not a good thing to do. It's like, it's good to have, you know, have the intimate, you know, after you've had the, but after you've really, really resolved the thing, not as a substitute for resolving the thing.

Nicole: Yeah, it was a good reset sort of thing, and a lot of it was on me because you assured me multiple times, you're like, I love you, like it's, you know, not those things. But the reason you offered, like had the idea too, was so that you could show me that you love me even without this thing. Like, obviously, we're not going to go totally without it by choice, but it's like, you know, you wanted to show me in those three weeks that your love for me didn't change, taking that part out. Which, like as a woman, does make you feel good because, like you said, sometimes I don't feel like you love me just for that. But women know it's a very important thing to a man. And so you even offering that as a solution to our problem and then focusing on loving me rather than the intimate part was a big deal. And I think it really helped a lot. And I realized too that I don't use intimacy to be close to you in the way that you do. But when we didn't have it, I did realize that I didn't feel as close. Like, we were still close, right, yeah, but we use that to be closer to each other. And like without it, we could still be close, but it's not the spiritual experience that it is with it. And I think that's something, and that's a common thing for men, is that as I've coached a lot of men and have read a lot of books on male psychology and whatnot in relationship, that men will tend to view sex as more of a closeness thing. And women don't realize that about men, and they don't necessarily see that. They're like, oh, there are other ways to be close. But then I think it's good to experience that to say, oh, actually, it does make a difference in the closeness because when you have, when you're without it for.

Nicole: A long time then, you can sort of feel how that is, but there are still differences with men and women in regards to sex. Because, like, we could have a very emotional conversation, and you're ready to go because, like you just said, you want that closeness, right? But as a woman, a lot of times, it's like I'm mentally still processing all this stuff. It's very mental for women. So, it's like if something's still going on, and that's also why when we were in the gridlock thing, it didn't keep us from being intimate, but the mental talk in my head of like, "Oh, am I doing this enough? Am I going to upset him?" took away from the naturalness of it. So, it's very mental for women, and it's not so much for men. Like, they could flip a switch. They could be crying one minute, two seconds later, they're like, "Do you want to have sex?" and you're like, "What?" Women would be like, "There's no way." There's no way a woman could be crying and then two seconds later be like, "Let's get it on."

John: You know, I mean, I'm not saying that it couldn't lead to that, but it's not a switch. It's a process.

Nicole: Yeah, well, I mean, that's why it's so important for foreplay with women because it's a process. You can't just be like, "Alright, let's do it," you know, and then try to stick it in two seconds later. It's like, that's not how it works. And this is the thing that guys don't get about this, which is that when they hear that it's a process, they think it's a physical process, as in lubricating the equipment.

John: That's true, but that's not what you're talking about, right? Because it's a revving up the engine mental process. So, it's not just, you can't solve this with KY.

Nicole: Yeah, just put some Mo on, like no. That doesn't solve it. But it's that process, and it's also, I think, you know, correct me if I'm speaking wrong, but I'll give my translation of what I've learned as a man about women, but is that it's a day-long process, not just 15 minutes prior to the event, and it's a lifelong process in the sense that it's about the connection of the relationship.

John: Alright, so it's almost like, actually, now I'm filling some blanks here. See if this makes sense. Try this theory on: women, in order to have sex or to want to have sex, they have to have closeness in the relationship.

Nicole: I would say so. Sex brings closeness in a relationship to the man, and it does, I think, for both, but more so like that. And so, that's where you can also get at a standstill, is that someone's got to bend, you know, to a degree. Or both can meet in the middle, is a good thing. But I think that that is the other part of it too, that it's like, it's the state of the relationship has to be in a good place in order not to say that you can't, you know, but in order for it to really be something that a woman is in the mood for.

Nicole: Right, yeah. It takes a lot to get a woman in the mood, and even if she's trying to have some fun for the night, that is driven by something entirely different. Like, that is driven by her just trying to find validation or feel a certain type of way, and because she's so down on herself and she doesn't have a partner. But when you're in a relationship, it stems from the closeness. It's totally different, you know what I mean? Like, a one-night stand is not about closeness, it's not about connection, it's not about the romantic or whatever. It's about what she can get that she feels like she's lacking in this, like, not best way.

Nicole: Because it's kind of like numbing your feelings with alcohol. That's what one-night stands are for women. It's like, yes, for the night, you'll feel better about yourself in some way, right? But the second that that's done, you've lost it again. It's interesting that you say "feel better about yourself," not "feel good" or "feel better," because the object of that is to feel better about yourself in that case, which is, I mean, I'm just being real. Like, I know a lot of women won't say that, but like, I could guess that a lot of women feel that way because that is what it is, right? And, you know, at times when I've been at my lowest a long time ago, yeah, like, I've made choices of getting attention from men not because I cared about that guy, but because I needed it for me. And that's not right, you know, like, yeah, it's not good. It's not healthy. It's not the right way to do it, but it will get you what you want temporarily. And that's why you have to work on yourself when, if you're in that situation, because you can never get it from men like that, like in those temporary situations. But in regards to a relationship, it's about the connection, it's about the closeness. That's why, like, when I said, you know, when we didn't have it for three weeks, yeah, like, we had never done that. So, I didn't realize until we did that, too, how it made me feel closer to you. Like, I already knew that it made you feel closer to me, right? But I didn't realize that it also did the same for me, like, not in the exact same way, yeah, but in a different way. It does add a level of closeness, and I mean, you're literally connecting together. That's what it is. And so, I didn't realize how much I connected with you and how much I valued that, like, obviously, I valued it. I know it's like, you look at it in a different way. It's not just about doing the things and going through the motions. It's about this actual experience, which a lot of people talk about, you know, that it should be an experience. Like, it's going to have an effect on you, and it should do that. And even the more shallow things, you don't think that's going to affect you, but it does, like, in the wrong way. Because you're getting these things that you want temporarily, but, you know, when you wake up the next day, you also feel crappy because you just used somebody, basically, for this thing, and like, it wasn't a meaningful and intimate experience, right? You know, even if it wasn't necessarily bad, it's not with someone that you care about, it's not with someone that you love, it's not with someone that means something to you. So, there is also this kind of hangover after that of feeling bad.

John: Yeah, I agree. So, since we're kind of talking about the single part, the question, you know, someone reached out to me and said, "When should women sleep with men that they're dating?"

Nicole: Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. And, you know, I'm not saying if you have an amazing first date and you have...

John: A good connection doesn't necessarily mean you should lead to intimacy on the first date. I highly recommend not doing that. Just because you have a strong attraction or desire, it's best to wait a few dates in. There's always the risk of the man's behavior changing after intimacy, which can leave you feeling used or regretful.

Nicole: I read this book about femininity, "The Feminine Revolution," I think. It discusses traits that are considered feminine. One of the authors mentioned a professor who would sit back and not offer information freely, which made him seem more valuable. It's not about playing games, but understanding your worth and not giving everything away too soon.

John: Exactly. It's about not revealing too much too early, whether it's about intimacy or personal details. Men are often more intrigued by a challenge. It used to bother me when men said they lose interest if a woman is too available early on. But there's a biological aspect to their response that we can't ignore. It's a double standard, but it reflects how men typically behave.

Nicole: It makes you reconsider how quickly you want to share yourself with someone. If a man says he'll lose interest if you're too available, it doesn't encourage you to be more so. Instead, it makes you want to wait longer, to make him prove his interest and commitment.

John: And while some men might be upset by this approach, it's about playing to different objectives. Men might focus on seduction, while women might focus on securing commitment. It's a dance, a way of navigating the dating world that keeps things interesting.

Nicole: It's not about adhering to societal standards or fearing judgment for past partners. It's about not becoming too hardened or losing touch with your femininity, which is valuable. It's important not to judge others based on their past but to focus on who they are now.

John: Exactly. While there's a place for understanding influences, it's crucial not to become too detached or cold, regardless of gender. For men, a certain hardness can be seen as beneficial, but it has its limits. In coaching, I advise men on seduction techniques, while I tell women to hold off on intimacy to ensure the man is truly invested. It's all part of the game.

John: Like you got two different coaches for two different teams, right? And we're playing a game here; we're having a dance. So, you know, I think the advice is sound to make him wait. And I do agree also with the exception, right? In the sense that, yeah, if it's just like the most magical thing in the world and, you know, if it really is, can tell he's invested and right, you know, things like that, which it is harder still. But I think that, like, if it feels like a really good date and you guys really connected, yeah, that's when I feel like a woman is having sex for the connection.

Nicole: But I think, along with you said, is what makes her hard is that it's not about the connection when she's having sex like that. It's about her, right? And it's about getting these things from the guy. And that's why there's this like numbness, this like hardness because it's not about caring about this guy, right? It's about caring about what she's looking for. And so that's what it is. But if you go on a really great date, yeah, and you do feel connected to the guy, and you feel like he's invested in you and like really interested in getting to know you, you guys maybe talked for hours, and he's showing you like little cues that he's interested in you, then you are having sex for the connection on the first date. And that's what makes it different. And it is almost like a second date or a third date. Like, you spent the time, you know what I mean?

John: And I think also that the thing to note about this too, which a lot of people just will not accept this truth, but it is true because we talked about it in a different way, right? You said that emotionally, a man can just flip a switch and go to having sex, and by a woman, that's not the case, right? And so that also plays out when we say when people don't like this truth, but sex does affect men and women differently. A man can have casual sex and not have, and again, it comes down to the hardness thing, but there's also more to it in the sense that the detriments on him are not as severe as a woman because she has to get into an emotional state for it to be in the right place, otherwise, it's a violation of herself, right? If she's doing it just for an esteem boost, if there's not a true connection there, and she knows it, and she feels it, and it does have a detrimental effect.

Nicole: And so that's why it's not a judgy thing, anything too, you know, it's just, it's a Band-Aid. Like, that's why I compared it to alcohol. Like, people when they drink alcohol and they go get drunk, they're not fixing any of their problems. They're just numbing themselves. And that's what that is as well too. Like, they're trying to fix themselves. They're like, oh, if I go home with this guy, and he like, you know, looks at me and treats me well for the night, and we do this, I'll feel better about myself 'cause I'll feel wanted or whatever the thing that she's missing, she's trying to get, but it's temporary, yeah. And what she doesn't realize is that if she gives herself those things, yeah, or she meets somebody who helps her realize those things, and they're in a relationship, that will actually heal her and get her to a place where she doesn't need even the person she's with validation, but she'll want it because she has that connection, and she'll want to feel wanted by someone that she actually cares about, not some guy she found on a dating app or at a bar for the night.

John: Exactly, yeah. And there's all kinds of stuff that people will say about par-boning and stuff like that, and there's some truth to some of these things, but they use them as weapons in order to shame people, and that's not, that doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't. It's all about 'cause nobody is broken beyond repair, right? Nobody is because I tell guys all the time about the body count thing. I'm like, look, there was a period of time where you were a dork, where you were like a virgin, a dorky virgin, okay? And maybe you're, you know, a stud now, whatever. You want a woman to judge you by your past and be like, oh well, this guy used to be a nerd, so, uh, no thanks. I'll pass. Like, he's just, you know, no. You wouldn't want to be judged by, you want to be judged by who you are now. And you can look at someone's past, obviously, if someone's been a junkie in their past, you might want to say, well, you know, let me double-check, let me make sure I'm not just going to trust that they're clean and they're not, you know, that their life has changed around. So, yeah, so yeah, you take it into consideration, but you don't use it to base everything on the now. But Mike's, Mike's bread, Mike's Killer Bread. I mean, everybody's, Mike's Killer Bread. Mike, where is this going? Mike's a Killer. Mike went to prison for like 20 years, came out, made bread. So, like, your, is that real though? I don't think he killed people. It's called Mike's Killer Bread, but he, he, he, he actually went to jail, did go to jail. He sold the brand, but Mike's Killer Bread came from literally a guy that went to prison for 20 years or whatever for some hard crimes. It was violent crimes for sure. And then he came out, and he started, he makes some good bread, yeah. But then, but people, you know, they forgave him in order to eat their sandwiches. So, you know, it's like, you can't just keep on holding people's pasts against them and think that they're a broken person. No one wants that, and no one will ever respond to that message. No one will ever listen to that message and say, you're right, I'm broken beyond repair, and now I agree with you. So, if you're trying to push that message, it's never going to work. So, but, but I don't want to beat a dead horse on this to, I had to throw that in.

Nicole: No, that was good. It's good. But, um, where else, what else? So, the first date thing, yeah, like not, yeah, when you have, I wouldn't, I would, you know, if you're really trying to get it in, you can wait, yeah, you know, if you dates. But you have to have a guy invest in you as a woman because you don't know what the truth is, unfortunately, with a lot of guys. You go on a great first date, you never hear from them the next day, and then you're like, what? And there's nothing even inherently wrong, but yeah, maybe they were dating a bunch of other women, and they went off with someone else. So, it's like, or they're really good, they're good at seducing, and like, you, that's true, maybe it was just a game for him. So, it's like, it just makes sense for any woman to have a guy invest in you before you do those things. Like, and like I said, you know, that's why some women have to like a date minimum. I'm not saying necessarily have a date minimum. Like I said, I would say three dates is kind of like a general rule, but.

John: Like you'll know, yeah, you can't have that's why if it's the first date and it feels though like you've been on three already and you feel the connection and you want to go ahead for it, I'm not saying don't do that. And I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who are married and happy who had sex on the first, yeah, yeah. But you know, also at the same time, if that's the person for you, he's going to wait dates, like yeah. And just don't be stupid and tell guys you have a three days then he's like two going tell him McDonald's and then we're going to go to Burger King and now we're going to go don't tell him be like it's technically and then we're going to go to Denny's to get a grand slam, a home run, yeah. No, so don't ever tell him, yeah. Just have it as like your rule and like also it's like if you have respect for yourself, which I know women do and I know even when they make the mistakes they still do, right? Then just treat it like that, treat it like you know like I am not going to give myself to this person, yeah, until he's proven that he's interested in me and I need to see that like I don't the words, you don't listen to a guy's words on the first few dates, no offense to guys but you have to follow the actions. Like if he's setting up dates and he's, you know, taking you to a place that you mention you like seafood and he picked a seafood place and he's on time and he's acting like a gentleman and he's doing those things and he's done that consistently, right? Then you know like you can kind of make a good judgment based on that but you can't go on the words, you can't be like oh like you know he's telling you all the right things like he has to show you exactly the things, yeah, yeah.

Nicole: And I did a this guy interviewed me on his channel and he was talking about we got into kind of this subject and he was actually like he was really like I mean cuz he was pretty religious and he was like yeah, you know guys shouldn't even really be just doing this on the first date as well. I agree too and I was like I tried to argue with them a little bit and then I was like no, you know what, you're actually probably right. I mean it really is probably better like you know I can see that viewpoint, that that makes a lot of sense because it's like you know I mean people do make the argument say okay well you're if you think it's damaging to women then you're participating in the damage which is a valid argument, that's pretty hard to counter. And then also just the idea that yeah, you keep something that should be sacred and you know cuz you know how do you treat this thing right? Do you treat it lightly or you treat it as seriously which I feel like when you are single people do treat sex lightly, you know what I mean cuz it is different like you don't have that relationship to have that deep connection, right? So I get where it is treated more lightly when people are single. I'm not saying they should, I'm not saying they should but I'm just saying I get where it is because you know it's harder to find a good connection especially as a woman and then I've you and I have talked about this. I feel like women get confused where they're like oh but if I give him what he wants he'll like me more, right? Like no woman is actively saying that but in her mind she's like he wants to have sex with me, you know if I give him sex you know then he'll like me more cuz I gave him what he wanted.

John: Well, and the thing about that is what I've told women in the past when I've coached on this is you don't have to sleep with the guy but just show him a boob, that's just your tactic but Mom Dad I hope you're not watching this, there you go. But no, you just um but show him that you want to, right? But then flirt, be seductive, you know without like going all the way. Don't just straight shut him down cuz if you just straight shut him down he's not going to come back. I mean he's like he's just going to feel rejected but if feels like oh I really want to I just I can't, I can't do it like you're tempting me but and then you and then you don't and then now he feels like well one, you've dangled the carrot a little bit better cuz now it's like you know it's like you know when you're fish and you're try to you don't just like you're not just like all right fish like you're not getting that, you got to kind of like make sure it's foll to lure, lure for a reason, you lure him in, you don't just Yank It Away the fish is like Chase it then no it's not going to happen so that's kind of depends on what kind of fish but yeah, that's that's the fisher woman me, I'm just kidding but yeah, I know what you mean though like you can still be flirty, you don't have to be like prudish or like rude about it like no I'm not going to have sex with you like you know especially if you like the guy, you should flirt, you should be like seductive like oh like make him think it might still happen tonight but then you know it's not but but you know what I'm saying like use your strategy like it's okay to like again people get all upset about this stuff it's like oh it's manipulation, it's you're playing games, I don't like games and it's like no, love is a game, I'm sorry, it's just it's there, there's there's strategy to it and you got to at the beginning, now after get into a relationship or you're you know you drop the the BS, you get to a deeper level of intimacy but right, you got to navigate it first and that's okay to navigate, you don't know what the truth is but I will say this and guys won't like this and I'm not saying like I'm not going to tell women to you know be rude to men CU that's not what it is but you don't want to also be super clingy to him, you need him to come to you, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole: I get what you're say, yeah. So like you know I feel like women, they get really excited about a first date and then they're like when are we going, when are we going and they're excited and I get that excitement but you have to like hone it in and just be like very casual about it, yeah. One two like one of the reasons is like you don't know who this guy really is, you went on one date so you do kind of have to bring yourself back down to Earth, two it's all a part of the challenge part and I'm not saying do this to like manipulate the game thing but let him come to you, that makes him more invested just like after our first date I had a great time, we had a lot of fun and.

John: You know, I wasn't blowing you up. I wasn't like, "Oh hey, when are we hanging out?" But you texted me after and you were like, "I thought we had a great date. Are you not interested in me?" And that hooked you in. I set the hook.

Nicole: Yeah, but that's what it is. I set the hook so I could reel you all the way into shore, take a picture, and put it on my dating profile. But see, in my experience, I was like, "Damn, you didn't sleep with me on the first day. What's going on?" I was like, "Are you not interested in me?" You gave all the signals of being interested in me, but women, that's what you want. You want to confuse.

John: Exactly. I was confused. I was like, "Wait a minute." But again, be like, "I was really interested in you, but I'm not giving you everything still."

Nicole: Right. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's what it is. And like, you have to have a guy come to you because that makes him have to invest more. And that's why I'm telling women to hold back. It's so you get that investment, so you can see how invested a man is in you. Because if you pull back and he's also pulling back, that's not invested.

John: Yeah, no, exactly. Like, I mean, he might be matching your energy, but you'll know because I'm not telling you to pull back. And that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying be rude or manipulative where you like, don't talk to him at all. No, but I'm just saying don't like, and you can even text him like, "Hey, I had a great time last night." Period. Don't be like, "I had a great time last night and you were just so handsome and I just think you're the one." Not that women will go that far, but like, give him some, but don't give him the whole mushy gushy because he hasn't earned it yet.

Nicole: Right, exactly. So that is what I would say because we know women are capable of the mushy gushy. Like, don't every guy knows that that's there. It's going to, you know, he's got to get it and want it. But that's what really, I feel like, also makes a man invest more. And that's why guys do say the clingy and needy thing is because a lot of times it's because it's just like love bombing. Like, women are love bombing where they get scared, and then women get the wrong message because in a relationship, you should be that clingy person. Like, it's not a bad trait, but you haven't got into the relation part yet.

John: Yeah, exactly. Well, and I think too, the withdrawing part, or like, you know, holding back some with men works too because men are very afraid, and women are too, of someone coming off super strong and wanting commitment right away.

Nicole: Right, yeah. And if you're like, "I had a good time," but you're also like, not, you know, blowing him up, he's not feeling like you're pressuring him for a relationship. He feels like, you know, "I can take my time. I can figure this out." And it also gives you time as a woman to take your time and figure it out because, and date multiple guys. Right, like, yes, I agree with that. Like, a lot of women are like, "I only date one guy at a time."

John: Date multiple guys because you're not sleeping with all of them. And this message goes out for women in your 30s, 40s, 50s. 'Cause I'm coaching guys that are dating a lot of few women and don't try to get exclusive or asking for commitment early on, on the first date. You're just going to scare these guys away. You can want a relationship, it's fine, and you can be serious about dating, but just, you don't need to say anything yet. You see what he does, and if he's going in the wrong direction, then you can be like, "Look." I think the problem is people think they're being transparent, and they say all these things like you said, like they say like, "Oh, I don't sleep with somebody after until three dates," or, you know, "I'm looking for a serious relationship." So if you're doing, but you're like, right, you can believe all of those things and not say them 'cause it's not necessary. If you have a three-date minimum, yeah, why does he need to know? Look, if anything, it's worse. If he needs, I'm playing goldfish. I got five in my hand. I don't need to tell you I got a five in my hand. Like, I don't need to tell you. I can ask you, you know, go fish or whatever, you know. But you don't need to say the thing.

Nicole: Right, that's the thing, is because then you're just, there's no mystery. There's no, and in my mind, if you are dating, you have to be open to a relationship because a one-night stand doesn't go on a date, in my mind, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it makes sense. It's like, you are somewhat serious about dating, so you don't need to be like, "I want a relationship." And to be honest, like, how you and I met, I never thought we would have a relationship, and I was still open-minded. I wanted a relationship, but I went on a date with you 'cause I'm like, "Oh well, he seems really interesting. I'll get to know him." And I feel like women too are often like, "I don't want to go on dates. I don't want to waste my time." But it's like, you get to know people, and you get to know what you like, and you get to have that experience just like we watch, like watching Love is Blind. Yeah, it's like you're learning about people and how they act and like what you feel is compatible with you and whatnot. So like, dating also should be fun. Like, it should be fun. And just imagine if a guy went out on a date and he was like, 'cause women say, "I'm looking for a serious relationship," or whatever. Imagine if a guy on the first day, he's like, "I want sex tonight." Like, you'd be gone. You'd be like, but you're doing the same thing. You're scaring, like that would scare the guy. Does want sex tonight, I guarantee you. Well, some guys do do that by being like, "I bought you dinner." Right, but that's, that's UNC. But I'm just saying, well, and it does scare you away, right? So that's, that's, you're like, you're disgusted now. You're like, "Okay, now I'm a prostitute. What the hell?" Like, this is ridiculous, right? So it's the same thing. Then the guy feels like a prostitute when you say, "I'm looking for commitment, a relationship, a relationship." Jeez, are we going to get in trouble for saying that word? I don't think so. I don't know. Who cares? But supposed to keep it, I mean, this one will, you know, it's, it's about sex, though.

John: True. But yeah, but anyway, that's just the message to ladies in their 30s, 40s, 50s. Just, I get why they say it because they don't, they're tired of playing games. They just want to be upfront and be honest, and I get it, and it makes sense, except don't do it. You do have to play a game. You do have to, at least, you know, think.

John: It's safe to say if a woman's there, she's there for a relationship, so you don't need to say it as a woman. Like, you don't need to be like, "I'm looking for a serious relationship," because you can also turn a hoe into a husband. You just got to do the right tactic, get him confused, show him a boob, get him confused, flashbang. He's like, "What the hell is going on? What happened here?" Exactly, like, far know what even happened, and here we are, then you get the ring, ladies. How it goes. There you go.

Nicole: So, okay, so we've spent a lot on that topic, but there's some other things I wanted to break down on the sex talk. Maybe, I mean, we have probably do some more episodes, but, uh, oh, the exclusive of sexual relations and thought and mind share and all of that thing. I think that's important to talk about, right? In the sense that it should be, if you really want the relationship to be the most successful as it can and the most intimate, that your sexuality should be reserved completely, exclusively, entirely for your partner. Which I just thought that was a norm, like I just thought that was how it's supposed to be. Like, maybe I'm naive, but, and maybe more women think this way than men do because I do feel like all women, in some degree, just want an amazing man that is amazing to them and treats them well and makes them feel safe and gives them orgasms, obviously. So, it's like, if you have all that, I feel like women aren't going to go looking for more, not looking. See, and that's where I think this is important. It's not, we're not talking about cheating here necessarily, we're talking about like looking for other stimulus or things.

John: Like, you know, so for example, that same woman will be like, okay, I read some romance novels and I've got my toys, and that's fine. And again, I don't think there's anything like severely wrong with that. I don't, you know, but I do think that it does make sense to save your entire mind share for, in the sexual department, to your partner. It's just like we're talking about, about like celebrity crushes and stuff like that. It's not just not saying it; it's not even having it, not even in this. We talked about last episode about guys, I'm like, just turn your head, don't look at the girl at like, if you, you know, like don't, like don't. And it, I guess this part of the conversation is more like, don't send your sexual energy in other places, right, than your partner. Maybe that's the best way to say that because there's plenty of people that are like, "Oh yeah, I don't care, you know, if he looks at porn or if he, you know, whatever, or and I do my own thing too, and but we have good time together." And it's like, yeah, I get that, and yeah, maybe that works for some people, but would it work better, and would you have a better depth of intimacy in your relationship if your only sexual outlet was each other, and your only thoughts, and you direct, and again, you might say, "Oh, I can't control all my thoughts," and yeah, yeah, but you can, you can rein them in, you can train your thoughts, and you can hone your thoughts. It's just like I said, the guy at the gym that looks over at the girl, it's like, he doesn't have to fixate, he can like notice and then like, "Oh, train my thought back to the direction it needs to go," you know what I'm saying?

Nicole: So, yeah, it just makes me feel like maybe they're not being open with their partner, or they're not as into their partner because I want to say that if somebody's not fulfilling all your needs, if you're not at 100% right, then you are going to look, but or be more inclined to. But if you are fulfilled, then like, there is no desire. Just like you said, like with the celebrity crushes, and I used to have a celebrity crush before you came along, and it literally just went away because you are well beyond that, and you're here, and you're all about me, and like, what more could I want? Like, there is nothing else I want.

John: Yeah, so I don't know. It's harder for me to like think about because it just makes sense to me, like why would you, I used this analogy the other day, why would you want a banquet meal from the frozen section of the grocery store when you're at your favorite restaurant that's like the best experience and the best food you've ever had? Yeah, like you wouldn't, right? Like, you wouldn't even look that way, like you wouldn't even think. It's not even on your radar, right? But so, but I think for a lot of people, it's not the, you know, it's not the best experience, but that's what I'm saying, like they could talk to their partner to, you know, get on the same page, or even if you're into something weird, even if you're into something weird, tell, talk, you know, don't handle it yourself, like, you know, like talk to your partner and figure it out between the two of you because that's a better, well, kind of separates you guys in a way, even though it might not feel like it. But if you're having sexual experiences with your partner and then sexual, like, separate sexual experiences by yourself or whatever, like that, that feels kind of double life to me or something. Why aren't you fully invested in here and fully present here, and you're off doing these other things, right?

Nicole: Yeah, and some people say different libidos and mismatching, but I still think that you can still figure out a solution that, yeah, but I would say even if that's the case, then you should still be thinking about your partner while you're doing extra things if that's what you need, or you can do in the presence, but you know, yeah, which would, I feel like, would make it better.

John: Exactly, yeah. So, and I feel like they should think that, but I don't know.

Nicole: Yeah, but I think it really comes down to that idea of making all of your sexual energy be focused at your partner, whether it be in the physicality sense, in the mental sense, and whatever sense that it is, it is all directed there. And I think that's the important thing about it. So, I feel like I don't have a lot to add because I feel like that's just a given thing.

John: Yeah, but it's not even just given for all women too, I'll say that. I mean, I get the book thing because you're right. I think the book would be the only thing that I could think of that where women are having this because even if you're reading something, right, like sure, maybe a small majority are thinking of that situation with her husband instead of the guy in the book, but some women are reading that, and they're thinking about the character in the book doing the things to them, and that's some other person. And I'm not saying that that's like cheating, no, but I mean, we did go back to like, is those things cheating or whatever, but it's still like you're deviating, even if it's mentally, right, and you're training your brain in a way, like you're training your sexual response.

John: Too which is, I think, important. Like, you want your sexual response to be queued into your partner only, which is good. Well, how do you think people could do that?

Nicole: Like, they don't do it by making sure that all of that energy is focused. So that you don't, so you'd say there is no porn, and there is no, like, all of that stuff, or yeah? Because if that's your only outlet, doing things on your own includes your partner if that's the case. Like, don't ever have it as you're totally alone doing these things, is what you're saying?

John: Yeah, because if that's your only outlet, then you will train your system to, because some people might struggle with that at first, but then if they do that, they will train their system to only have that response in that. Okay, like the sexual human sexuality, the training of that system of those circuits, and the response is a very trainable system. So, it responds to what you feed it, right? And so, and that's also why some of the extreme stuff, where people are constantly looking for novelty, and they get deeper and deeper until they get to some really messed up stuff, and then the next step is for them to try and act it out in life because they can't get any more always from the, you know. So that's why you got to train it the right direction.

Nicole: Right. Well, and I think it also brings you closer to your partner if you're all about them. Like, it enhances your connection, it enhances your intimacy, it enhances the experience to this ultimate connecting level, I feel like.

John: Yeah, I agree. Which, what couple doesn't want that? And if you don't, then you might even think about other things. Well, let's talk about the experience some then. I was going to give some tips, I mean, how to make things better, I think, in a relationship, and on the sexual side. Like, I can tell you, some things that guys can do.

Nicole: Okay, I'll give the tips for the guys.

John: So, I mean, I would say the biggest thing, like if you just want to be good in bed as a guy and please your partner the most, it's not all kinds of mechanical. It's not figuring out the technique or the, you know, whatever. I'm not going to make the motions because, you know, we are, this already is an extreme episode. But, you know, it's not figuring out the technical details of which buttons to push and how to push them, and, you know, what frequency, and, you know, that's not at all. I mean, that's a very small part. The biggest thing for guys to recognize is that it's actually slowing down, being very slow, and taking a lot of time, teasing basically, setting the mood, setting the tone right. It's a very slow process, taking a very long time to get from the northern colonies to the southern colonies, you know. Okay, and visit the Bible Belt along the way, you know. It's like, you know, you got to pace them, you know, camp out there for a little bit too. But that's the thing, it's like, it's taking a very long time so that anticipation is built because when anticipation is built very high, then it doesn't take much to set the, to break the dam, you know.

Nicole: True. So if you're just trying to break the dam, and you just go straight to trying to break the dam, it's not, I'm not saying that you can't eventually break that dam, but you're going to tire yourself out. Like, it's so much easier if you don't rush the process. I think you know what I'm saying. It's like, so that's the key thing. It's counterintuitive to what a lot of guys would think.

John: I would give guys even a simpler tip.

Nicole: Okay.

John: And I think if a guy just cares about a woman's pleasure, that will go so far for them. Like, if they show that they care, if they do care.

Nicole: Yeah, like that, which is also what you're saying. Like, if you go slow, you do care. You go fast, you're like, I'm just trying to get mine and then be done.

John: Well, I think there are a lot of guys that care too much, and so then it becomes pressure, and then they're like, I got to make this thing happen. I got to break the dam, you know. And they're like, am I doing a good job?

Nicole: Well, I'm not talking to those guys then. If they do care, but I feel like a lot of women feel like men don't care what they're going through, or like care to do stuff to them, or make it an experience like you're saying, which I know is why you're giving them this tip. But exactly, I think the simplified version is, if they show that they care, which they should care, right? Like, if you're having sex with a woman and you don't care about her experience in this, yeah, you should not be doing that. Like, you're using her, whatever, you know. Like, that's not going to be a good experience for her, right? And it should be a good experience for both of the people.

John: Right, yeah. So that is just what I would add in, like the simplified version.

Nicole: I agree.

John: Yeah, 'cause sometimes that's the issue, and, you know, right. But, and sometimes it can be that you're being too, but then a lot of times, the being too eager becomes an ego thing. It's not really about the other person; it's about you, isn't it? It's like, you know, it's like you're trying to get your ego boosted.

Nicole: True.

John: And then, you know, you're going to get the shoulder tap, the nice try buddy, time to come up here like you're done, tapped out, you know. That's so, but, you know, but I think that's, I mean, that's really the biggest thing that would make the biggest difference, I think, for...

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, and I would say the same for women, that they should care too, but I feel like women typically do care more in that situation.

John: Connected, I'm saying the slow down.

Nicole: Well, yeah, but that means you care 'cause you're taking the time.

John: Does it, does, yeah, exactly. But yeah, guys do need to slow down. They get a little, don't they want to enjoy it too, like draw out the experience. That's the thing, is, and that's the thing, is like, it should always be thought in that sense that it is, you know, there's really, I'm not saying that there's never ever the time and place for a quickie, but that's like a very rare, like, you know, it is a process that you need to fully commit to that process, right.

Nicole: Right, so it's like, you know, you get on an airplane, you're going to travel somewhere, you just don't get on the airplane, you got to go, you got to go through security, you got to, like, you know, it's an experience. It's not like just the motions of going through it.

John: Exactly.

Nicole: Yeah. Um, you don't have any other tips? I thought some tips, I mean, we could get into graphic tips.

John: You want to get into...

Nicole: No, like, I would say that that is going to constitute a majority. It's so simple if.

John: They want graphic tips, they should join your... Yeah, they can. Yeah, I got some real... But no, but it really does. The mechanical stuff is not as important as that because I'm telling you, it doesn't seem like that would make that much of a difference. And I can tell you, and you can even know that that's what's going to happen, and it will still make that much of a difference because it is like, it's just the way humans are wired. Anticipation is the key.

Nicole: So true. Yeah, and you can talk about what you're going to... I mean, I guess that's some of the tips, is to, like, you could get good at texting and talking about or talking about what you're going to do.

John: Precisely, because remember, women's minds, or women's biggest sexual organ, is her brain. So, that's true. Turn that switch on.

Nicole: Yeah, and I guess women should invest too in the experience. I know that sometimes they also get into the habit of just like, "Oh, let's get this over with," or something. But like, you should be enjoying this experience. Like, you should... What can you bring to up this, or what can you tell your partner to enhance the experience? Like, because she could tell him, just like you just said, slow down and like, you know, get me worked up and stuff like that. Because like, it can be a very exhilarating experience for a woman. Like, it should not be just something to do.

John: Yeah, guys are good at getting feedback and taking feedback. A lot of women don't want to give feedback. They're afraid of hurting the ego, to some. They want him to know. Definitely don't fake. Don't fake. You're just doing everybody a disservice if you fake. Don't ever do that. Don't fake the orgasms because that's... You're just doing everybody... You're doing yourself a disservice. You're doing the guy a disservice. You're doing the next woman a disservice. You're doing everybody down the chain a disservice. That's the worst. Don't do that.

Nicole: That's true. Just be like, "Yeah, uh, I got to go." Just be honest. It wasn't the best. Yeah, but then give some tips for improvement. And you know, it's like...

John: So, and then I guess I would say for guys too... I mean, not of the actual act, but just an important thing is that a lot of guys that I coach, one of the struggles that they have, well, in a relationship, a lot of times the whole issue of sex becomes something that a woman gives to the guy, right? Which is not good, right? It shouldn't... And she should never ever use it as a punishment or a threat or like a withholding sex. No one should ever use it, but women more so would use this, you know. So that should never be the case. That's because they're not using it as the experience. They're using it as this pawn, right? At that point, right? And if it's something that like, it's like only one person enjoys, that's a problem in itself. But never ever, if you make it transactional where it's like, or no bargain for it, like, "If you do this, then I'll do this," right? That's... It shouldn't be like... Like, you should want to do the thing, right? Not because you earned the thing. That's not... No, that doesn't make...

Nicole: A little extra enthusiasm as a reward is a fine thing, but...

John: But for guys, they need to indicate what they want because what a lot of guys will do is not communicate, and they'll mask their desires because they're afraid of their own sexual desires. A lot of men are. They're afraid to express them because they're afraid of rejection. And so they will do the whole like bump up, you know, against the back in the bed, or like, you know, hint at it, or like poke or whatever like that. That's just... It's the little boy vibes, right? It's like, "Yeah, like you're a man. Take her, you know, like show the real intent." Like, you know, if you're not going to actually just take her, you know, and I don't mean... Obviously, I don't need to put a disclaimer on like the limits of that, but what I'm saying is like, if you're not going to like turn around and show her and, you know, kiss her and show her that that's what you're going for, then say it. Then say, "This is what I want to do," or "This is what I want," not hinting at it and then getting upset and then getting, you know, "Turn over, pull the covers off." Yeah, it's not... And that's why a lot of times guys get their response of "I've got a headache." Well, because you haven't... It's the female sexual responsive system is responsive. Mhm. That's the men's is initiative, right? So, uh, if you're getting the "I got a headache" response as a guy, then it's because you're not turning up those... She's not... You're not doing the thing that is getting her into the mood, which is not, you know, five minutes before, but is throughout the day, the romance, the thing that puts it on her mind. You didn't get that going, you know what I mean? Or you're being a jerk. You're being passive, and you're just like trying to, you know, trying to push things without having to say it, like not putting yourself out there. If you just say, "This is what I want," right? Then that's, you know, you usually don't get that "I've got a headache" response, right? It doesn't mean that you're always going to get it, but it just means that, you know, if you're getting that "I've got a headache" response, it's... You're doing something wrong.

Nicole: I agree. Anything else to add?

John: I don't think so, unless you can think of something.

Nicole: I don't think so. So, on... I think that's...

John: Yeah, our thing of the week. That was hard because like last week we had a talk about a TikTok.

Nicole: Oh yeah, yeah. I think that's the only... That wasn't even that bad. I mean, like it was the girl on TikTok who's talking about how her husband was a pathological or something, and I didn't even watch the full thing. And I was talking to John about it, and he was like, "This isn't true," or, you know, like, "I don't think this is true. She's making so much money," which I'm sure she is making a lot of money.

John: Oh yeah, she's making money now. She got a Netflix deal now. Ten-minute videos that have so many views and stuff. But like, I felt like it wasn't fair to judge because I didn't know the full story yet, and I understood your side that she is making a lot of money, and I always agreed that that's the case. But I just kind of got in my old defensive mode and was like, "You know, like you don't know," because I just felt like you were saying that what she was saying isn't true, but you were just stating that you didn't believe it. And so that made you feel disrespected in a certain type of way, and I didn't mean to do that. I just... You know, didn't even get to finish her thing, and I didn't really have a full picture of... And I just felt like...

John: You were kind of dismissing it, which you weren weren't. You were just stating your opinion. And that's where I messed up. I didn't realize, and I never actually even said this to you because it was such a small thing. But I'll say now that I messed up in not realizing that it doesn't matter why. If it's silly that she's upset that you don't believe this girl on TikTok, or you think that she might be making up some of the story, but if your response to that upsets her, then that matters. That she's upset about that thing, it's not a big deal, you know what I'm saying?

Nicole: It's like, so I didn't recognize that because I got back into the mode of, like, this doesn't make sense. Why would you care about if I believe some girl on TikTok, which is logical. But that doesn't invalidate your feelings about it. And that's where I goofed because I got back into the logical of, like, well, it doesn't make sense for her to feel this way, which is always the wrong thing for a guy to do. It doesn't have to make sense for her to feel this way. She feels this way, and it matters that she feels this way, right?

John: Well, it stemmed more from a deeper thing too, that like you weren't doing, but I think it just triggered me in that moment. That this woman was giving her experience, and a lot of times, men don't validate a woman's experience. And I'm not saying that's what you were doing because you were just giving your opinion about it, and you weren't disrespectful about what you were saying. But it just made me think about all the ways that women don't get believed a lot of the time for the things that they say. Not always, but you know, certain things. And I'm not saying there aren't women out there who fabricate things to try to stir up problems too, but for the people who aren't doing that and they don't get believed, it's hurtful, you know? And like, not that you did that, but it just triggered that emotional response in me.

Nicole: Right. And what mattered, what should have mattered to me, is that you feel that way, and that's okay. It doesn't have to be offensive to me that you feel that way. It doesn't have to make sense to me, you know what I'm saying? But it's hard, you know? It's something that you always have to work on as a guy. But it's crazy to even bring this up; it's so small.

John: Yeah, yeah. But I mean, we need something to talk to in our, like, 12-hour conversations we've had before. I mean, we could talk about, you know, sex, but let's, we got to keep this one, you know, PG7, NC7, you know. We're going to mark it on YouTube.

Nicole: Alright, I guess that's it. We'll see you next time. Through every fault, we find our way.