John [00:00:00]: I'll not talk to AI when I'm spending time with you.

Nicole [00:00:03]: Okay. Pinky promise.

John [00:00:04]: Fine. Pinky promise. Okay.

Nicole [00:00:06]: You gotta do things like this. You gotta, like, compromise, you gotta talk. But you also have to be realistic, like, as a woman, especially if you're a woman in a relationship like we have, you know, where you're the leader and you're the provider. Even though I want to spend all my time with you and all your time with me.

John [00:00:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:00:22]: We would have no money.

John [00:00:24]: Beyond the perfect we discovered through our flaws, we complete each other.

Nicole [00:00:30]: Better than perfect. Perfect.

John [00:00:32]: We stay through every fault.

Nicole [00:00:36]: We find our way.

John [00:00:40]: All right, welcome back to the better than Perfect podcast, where every week we help. Dang it. I just.

Nicole [00:00:47]: We share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. You kind of sounded like a pirate in the beginning.

John [00:00:56]: I did? Yeah. I. I don't know. I'm selling something else, I guess.

Nicole [00:00:59]: Are you still thinking about the pandas?

John [00:01:01]: I'm always thinking of the big titty pandas.

Nicole [00:01:04]: That's weird.

John [00:01:05]: I don't know. Btp. What else does BTP stand for? You tell me. Better than perfect. Okay.

Nicole [00:01:12]: Wow.

John [00:01:13]: We'll take it. Okay, so let's talk about today, another one of those questions. Which would women prefer? Type of question. A man who.

Nicole [00:01:25]: These are always trick questions.

John [00:01:26]: Okay, well, this is kind of like what women say that they want versus what do they actually want? Type of thing. Do women want a man that. Cause women say that they want a man that is with them all the time. It's caught in flight. Right. So spend as much time as possible with them. But in reality, I guess I'm leading the witness here.

Nicole [00:01:47]: You are?

John [00:01:48]: Yeah, I am. So do women want a man that is with them all the time or a man that's working hard, spending a lot of time working on his mission in life, and, like, kicking ass? That's.

Nicole [00:02:05]: I think one of the question. The problems in general is that men think more in black and white and women don't.

John [00:02:13]: Okay.

Nicole [00:02:13]: So men can't accept that. It's a complicated answer.

John [00:02:19]: Okay. I mean, sure.

Nicole [00:02:20]: Because it's. It's somewhere in the middle right of there, which I feel like you're gonna be like, no, if you had to pick. But women want in the middle. And it's the same thing with, like, when women confuse men and they say they want a nice guy.

John [00:02:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:39]: They want a guy that is kind to them but also stands up for himself.

John [00:02:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:46]: And they don't describe that very well. They just say Nice guy. And then guys are like, what do you mean? I'm nice, but he's a pushover. You know what I mean? Like, it's not black and white, it's gray.

John [00:02:57]: Sure.

Nicole [00:02:57]: And so. So when you're saying, does a woman want a guy she's with all the time or a guy that works all the time? Neither of those are good. Like, I mean, look, if I could spend every day with you, I would like that.

John [00:03:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:18]: However do I feel like you would feel fulfilled. Like, I think that you would still need something to be working towards, and I would respect that.

John [00:03:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:29]: You know what I mean? But I also do enjoy spending all my time with you, so it's hard. But also, women don't want a man that works more than she even gets to see him.

John [00:03:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:42]: Because then what kind of relationship is that? So it's not an easy yes or no.

John [00:03:48]: I think the thing is, where it kind of comes down to is more of the, like, okay, women say that they would want a guy to be attentive to them all the time, but in reality, that kind of guy would not be attractive. And they would lose interest in that guy because he would be. Basically, instead of pursuing his mission in life and doing what he's supposed to be doing, he would be being swayed by her. And then she would feel like she's like, he doesn't really pass the test. He doesn't actually stand on his principles or what is. Like, he's a pushover to a degree. Right. Like, it would make him more of a pushover. Right. Because a guy that is not doing, like, spending the time that he needs to, to accomplish his goals in life,

Nicole [00:04:37]: he's pushing off his responsibilities. And that's unattractive.

John [00:04:40]: Yeah. Yeah. He's just like. So I think that's what it comes down to is that, you know, women say that they want a guy that is there all the time. Right? Like, they say that's what they want, but just, like, I would say that, yeah, I wanna eat my favorite dessert every single night or dinner, whatever. You know, eat at whatever restaurant, you know, But I don't wanna eat the same thing every single night. Like. Like. Like, I don't want to just, like, have every day be a vacation day. I would say that I want that, but that's not what I actually want. Cause if I had that, I would not appreciate that.

Nicole [00:05:14]: No.

John [00:05:14]: I would be like, look, I need to do something else besides, you know, in fact, when. When I. A good example of this was back, like, you know what 12 years ago or so, when I quote, retired, right? Had the passive income to, like, I quit my job. And I was like, okay, I can just live off of my rental income. I went to Hawaii to go live there for two months, right? I was gonna just live there permanently. I tried out for two months, and I was miserable. I was the most miserable I'd ever been in my life. Because even though I was like, okay, I just want to sip my ties on the beach and play video games all day, when I had the ability to do that, I didn't enjoy that because it felt meaningless. And so I think a lot of women think that that's what they want, but they don't actually want that. They want a man that's ambitious, going after their goal, his goals in life, that is actually earning a living, that is accomplishing things, because that's what actually also makes them attracted to the man. And so a man without a mission, without a purpose, you know, wouldn't be as attractive.

Nicole [00:06:14]: But if he's too far on the other side, that doesn't promote a loving, deeply connected relationship either.

John [00:06:20]: Yeah, I think that's the case. I think that's like. Cause and we've been kind of going through that lately as I've been starting up this new company and I've been working like, I don't know how many hours, like, 14, 15 hours a day. I don't like it every day, including weekends. But I've been spending time. Like, we went on a date last night. We went out to dinner. Like, we're going to. We're doing dinner. Like, I have dedicated time that I'm spending with you, you know, so. And you're going to get that. And you're going to get that G wagon. So

Nicole [00:06:49]: the G wagon helps. Spend a lot of time with you, though. I would take time with you over the G wagon, for sure.

John [00:06:55]: Yeah, no, I know you would, but.

Nicole [00:06:56]: But, no, but I. I do agree. I think that maybe, I don't know, I'm weird, but, like, at least as far as, like, wanting a kind guy but has a backbone, I, at least as a woman, always knew, like, I didn't want a guy that just did everything that I want, even if it upset me, even if I obviously wanted it. And then, like, you're like, no, like, we're gonna do this. Like, that's obviously upsetting. But if you never. And again, I don't want you to push back just to push back either.

John [00:07:35]: Right?

Nicole [00:07:35]: And maybe this is where men act like women are complicated, but the Thing is.

John [00:07:39]: No, that's not complicated.

Nicole [00:07:41]: It's not, though.

John [00:07:42]: No, it's not.

Nicole [00:07:42]: It's not complicated. Because the thing is, it's not that complicated. I want you to be true to yourself.

John [00:07:46]: Exactly. That's. Exactly.

Nicole [00:07:47]: And that's the key, right? Like, that's hard to explain because you're like, I want a guy to be kind but then stands up for himself, but then has to tell me no if he really genuinely thinks no. Because you can't trust somebody if the person can't do that. Like, you can't fully trust a nice guy because you don't really know what he's thinking.

John [00:08:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:06]: And so if a man just agrees with you all the time.

John [00:08:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:10]: You probably don't trust him fully.

John [00:08:12]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:08:13]: Because he's never opposed what you've had to say.

John [00:08:17]: Like, oh, you don't need to go to work today. And he was like, okay. It's like, yeah, but you're supposed to be accomplishing your shit as well. It's like you as a woman are going to try and get him to not go to work today, but he has to stand up as a man and be like, no, I'm gonna go to work today.

Nicole [00:08:33]: It would be nice if he was like, okay, well, you know, you wanna go do this thing? Maybe I can take a half day or something that's even. Like. Because sometimes maybe you do wanna do something for me. Like, maybe it's. I'm asking for something that's kind of like a time constraint thing.

John [00:08:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:53]: But I would respect it more if you were like, okay, I'm gonna work today and we go tomorrow. Or I'm gonna work half the day and then we'll go in the evening. Like, even that is more. Or like, if it's a big enough deal, you'll be like, okay, well, I need to get these things done tonight. I might have to work till 10 so that we can go tomorrow, you know? Or like, no, we can't go. We'll try to go when it comes back or something. You know what I mean? Those sort of responses are respectable responses.

John [00:09:22]: It's taking care of the responsibility.

Nicole [00:09:24]: Right.

John [00:09:25]: I think it also depends on what the man's doing, Right. Because a lot of women get upset, right? One of the chief complaints is that he works too much. All he does is work, Right. And ignores me. Ignores. And it's like, okay, I think it depends on what he's doing too, Right. Because which kind of relates back to the status, right? So if a man is working for some. Some regular job that's not a high paying job. And he's working overtime for his boss, who's. And his boss is an asshole. And it's just clear that he's doing this because he needs to please the boss or he's afraid he's gonna lose his job if he doesn't work all

Nicole [00:10:03]: these hours or he wants the boss's validation, right?

John [00:10:06]: Then it's like he's kind of a pussy. Like that's why he's working all these hours. It's not because he's ambitious and he's trying to build something or he's trying to make this money so he can invest and have a better future. It's like he's just like, just overworked,

Nicole [00:10:22]: trying to please somebody.

John [00:10:23]: Joe Blow, who's just like average dude. But he's working all these extra hours kind of because he's a loser, right? Because it's like he's got to work all these hours because he doesn't have a better job or a better ambition or he can't build his own business. Right? And so I think a woman more likely is to resent that guy and divorce that guy because he works too much and doesn't. As opposed to the guy that is building his own business and working all these hours in order to do that or to give them a better life and really pursuing his passion in life, something that lights him up. Or the guy that's maybe even an investment banker that's making a ton of money on Wall street and he's working hard. He might not be self employed, but he's ambitious and there's a purpose to what he's doing. He's not just avoiding being home to work, you know what I'm saying? Cause there's guys that, that avoid being home, they just go to work because they don't want to deal with home life.

Nicole [00:11:15]: Right?

John [00:11:16]: And there's a difference between. It's like I have to do this thing. That's the problem. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like there's. I have to do this thing and like I have this ambition, I'm on this mission versus I'm just like, I'm just avoiding. I'm goofing off at work anyway, but I'm just not coming home because I don't want to.

Nicole [00:11:33]: But see, that's different. Like they're probably saying they're working, but they're like you said, they're avoiding. And that's a huge problem, right? If you feel like your husband is working, but it's more. So avoiding. That's a bigger issue. And I don't think people really realize, like, women will be like, oh, he's working so many hours and I barely see him. A man who owns his own business is working 24 7. You'll be at date night with him, and he's on his phone handling stuff. So it's definitely hard.

John [00:12:08]: Like, which. Like owning your own businesses is. You get to choose whenever you want to work. Whichever 90 hours of the week you want to work, you can choose.

Nicole [00:12:15]: Yeah. Which is all the time. You're always working.

John [00:12:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:19]: But.

John [00:12:20]: But, but it's. But it's like, for a purpose, for a mission. Right. As opposed to just, like, avoiding life. Right. Like, that's. I think.

Nicole [00:12:28]: But I also don't think, like, the level. Like, look, the level. You're starting something new. You are at a high level of working right now.

John [00:12:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:38]: Now, if this was like, the rest of our life, that would be really hard to sustain for sure.

John [00:12:43]: It would be hard for me to sustain for any.

Nicole [00:12:45]: So, like, you also, I think, have to understand as like, a wife.

John [00:12:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:51]: And also have, like, realistic talks and things like that. Or realize that this can't go on forever. You really realize it can't go on forever. Like, create, like, date nights or designated times that you spend with each other, and you have to follow through with those things.

John [00:13:08]: DDNs. Designated Date Nights.

Nicole [00:13:13]: You need to get away from the acronyms. Yeah. Because then you'll just use the same one. Come up with new ones. No. Don't even do it. But yeah, it would be different if, like, you worked at a business, like, a job and had a boss, and then you were just constantly there. That kind of doesn't make sense. Unless you're like. Let's say you're a lawyer, you're working on a case. But even, like, that's not all the time. Like, if you're working all the time and you have a job that also kind of, like, doesn't even really make sense why you're putting it. Putting in overtime sometimes.

John [00:13:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:47]: And you're avoiding your household. You got some junk under your rug, and you need to go watch the resentment episode and, like, figure that out. Because there's a reason you don't want to go home.

John [00:13:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:59]: There's a huge difference between working a lot because you're driven, you have ambition, and working a lot because you don't want to go back to your house.

John [00:14:08]: Which. Which is, again, also comes back to. I mean. Yeah. That there is that, like, at the Base level. But I think also just the tolerance that a woman would have for a man that's working a lot comes down to status, right? Because if he's doing something important, okay, there's a lot more slack cut For a guy that works a lot of hours, that's doing something important like running his own business, has ambitions, you know, a lawyer, doctors, like, saving lives. Like, even Wall street banker. Making a lot of money versus working. Like, unambitious. Working a regular job, being a slave to the office. Like, why are you working this shitty job? Like, you're always at this job. You're always doing the stupid thing.

Nicole [00:14:49]: Well, because then what is the actual drive behind it? Because the latter is not just they like the job or anything to do with the job. It has everything to do with their relationship and why they don't want to come back home. And so I don't even know if it's more towards status. I know what you're saying, but I think it's more of like. Because I think also if a doctor, if he never comes home, not really. And is also, like, avoiding. Cause let's be real, some of those people can avoid. It would still cause the same alarm bells. But like you said, with more high demanding jobs, it's more so you know that that's gonna happen. Or like, if you're building a business, you know that there's gonna be long hours being put in. And so they can probably get away with. If they are avoiding for longer. Cause you just can't tell, is he actually working or is he avoiding? Whereas, like, someone that's working, you know, at FedEx or something, that's picking up extra hours, like shots, right at FedEx.

John [00:15:54]: Why do you need FedEx employees watching? They're like, what the fuck?

Nicole [00:15:58]: Why do you need. Why do you need to pick up extra shifts all the time delivering boxes? You know what I mean?

John [00:16:04]: Yeah. Damn FedEx people are crying right now.

Nicole [00:16:08]: I mean, FedEx is not a bad job. I'm sure they're a good company. But I'm just saying, like.

John [00:16:13]: Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.

Nicole [00:16:14]: If you're a doctor, maybe you're working extra, extra long. Cause you're about to do some crazy brain surgery or something. Or you gotta go to the hospital because you're preparing for this brain surgery that's different than you work at. What do you want me to say? Pizza Hut? And you're just making Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut's bringing back their old school.

John [00:16:41]: The buffet. Yeah, I want the buffet. All right. I'M going to Pizza Hut buffet. That's what we're doing for dinner tonight.

Nicole [00:16:47]: I want the buffet. I don't know if they've done it yet, but that's the rumor. They're trying to go back to like their 90s.

John [00:16:52]: Oh, there was this one Idaho pizza place that they had this buffet too.

Nicole [00:16:57]: Like Cici's Pizza. That was a buffet pizzas place pizza place.

John [00:17:01]: It's like, maybe it's an Idaho pizza company. Like, why does Boise have all that? Okay, okay, but here's something. Here's a question. So like, okay, suppose that. Cause I think maybe it's not all the money in status. I think. I think I may be wrong about that. So let's suppose that the crazy hours I'm working now, right? Obviously this is going to make a billion dollars. But if it wasn't going to make a billion dollars, if instead I was an artist and I was spending a ton of hours in my studio making some beautiful art, would that be kind of equivalent, you see what I'm saying, Versus Pizza Hut? You see what I'm saying? Like, putting in the hours. Let's. Yeah, whatever.

Nicole [00:17:47]: But if you're doing something. Yeah, but like, and it's your passion.

John [00:17:50]: Yeah. Don't you feel like that would be. That would justify the hours? Even if it's not producing a lot of money, it's not a high status thing.

Nicole [00:17:58]: It's your passion.

John [00:17:59]: Right. It's something that like, as opposed to, hey, if you work for, I don't know, like, whatever, XYZ technology company and you're like doing tech support or whatever, like, and you're working all these extra hours, even if you're getting overtime, you're getting paid overtime. It's like. But you're not really, like, it's harder to justify. Like, why aren't you spending the time with your family?

Nicole [00:18:19]: Right.

John [00:18:20]: You know what I'm saying? But if you're creating art, there's some kind of greater thing, or you're building this business or building this empire, there's some kind of greater thing because I

Nicole [00:18:29]: think that passion has to drive those things. Does that make sense? Unless you're doing art recreationally. But if you're like, I'm gonna chisel this marble and make a statue of my wife, which you should do.

John [00:18:46]: I already did. That's what I am doing, actually.

Nicole [00:18:49]: Then that's a passion. Someone's gonna carve a statue. I mean, who even does that, really, in today's age? That would be kind of crazy. That would be like this person really wants to do this.

John [00:19:00]: Sculptors, dude. That's their business.

Nicole [00:19:01]: That's not carving.

John [00:19:03]: They sculpt.

Nicole [00:19:04]: They sculpt, but they're not. That's. I think you have to chisel marble.

John [00:19:07]: Yeah, that's still sculpting.

Nicole [00:19:09]: No, sculpt, I think, is, like, malleable.

John [00:19:11]: It can be either, I think, you know.

Nicole [00:19:13]: Is it?

John [00:19:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:14]: I don't know. We're not obviously, sculptors or whatnot.

John [00:19:18]: What would you call it if it's not a sculptor, though, like a chiseler? I think it's sculptor.

Nicole [00:19:24]: Well, like carving, but I think that's more wood.

John [00:19:27]: Yeah, I think that's.

Nicole [00:19:28]: I think it has to be wood, but, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, guess Sculptor. Okay, my bad.

John [00:19:33]: A statueist. Okay, go ahead.

Nicole [00:19:40]: But I think that involves, like, this passion, right? Because, like, look, even if you work at Pizza Hut, going back to Pizza Hut, and you have a passion for pizza, then why aren't you working to make your own pizza place? You know what I mean? Like, you can work at Pizza Hut and have a passion for pizza. Maybe you have to work at Pizza Hut until you get enough money to get a little cart so you can make, like, pizzas in your cart. Until you can get a food truck, until you can get a business.

John [00:20:09]: It shows ambition, right?

Nicole [00:20:11]: Like, so you can still have passion. And, like, look, I would honestly respect somebody if they were like, look, I'm working at Pizza Hut right now because I have no money and it's the only place. And I just got out of jail and I want to own pizza.

John [00:20:28]: People have to be jail, have to be convicts. That's it. I don't know if pizza even Kyra

Nicole [00:20:33]: say that, but I'm just trying to, like, cover all my bases here or something for you. Why they're choosing Pizza Hut over somewhere else. I'm just trying to figure it out.

John [00:20:43]: These convict pizza people are going to come to our house and be like, fudge this bitch.

Nicole [00:20:48]: Look, I support.

John [00:20:49]: Like, I am a convict, but fudge you anyway. Don't fuck with convict support.

Nicole [00:20:53]: Convicts, Pizza Hut employees. Okay? I'm not saying I don't. That's why I'm using them as an example. So they're passionate about pizza. Like the Dave's killer bread guy.

John [00:21:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:04]: You know what I mean?

John [00:21:05]: Okay.

Nicole [00:21:05]: He was a convict and he made bread. So I'm saying, like, if you got to go to start at Pizza Hut.

John [00:21:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:13]: And you're really passionate about pizza.

John [00:21:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:15]: And you got to save up money at Your Pizza Hut job, and then you start going on your own, and you start going out on your own. I respect that. Yeah, I respect it if you have a passion, but it's kind of hard. Like, how do you have a passion for delivering boxes? You can care.

John [00:21:32]: Damn.

Nicole [00:21:33]: You can care about, like, your customer service.

John [00:21:38]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:21:38]: I'm not saying you can't, but what passion is there?

John [00:21:41]: Right. It's not a justifiable excuse to not be spending your time at home or with your wife. Right. Like, that's. I think that's the thing is, like, if you're making a sacrifice, it has to be a sacrifice that. That has value.

Nicole [00:21:53]: Right.

John [00:21:53]: In some way. Like, even if it's value to you.

Nicole [00:21:56]: Yeah, exactly.

John [00:21:56]: Yeah. It just. Like, you're making a lot of money. Like, you're doing something that you love, but you're working a shitty job and you're spending a bunch of hours at the shitty job instead of being at home with me, with your family. I don't care if you make the overtime pay, that little bit of extra money. I'd rather have you the time. That's what a woman thinks, but.

Nicole [00:22:13]: Right.

John [00:22:13]: But it's not that. When it's like building your empire, your business, or building your. Your pizza factory.

Nicole [00:22:20]: Right.

John [00:22:20]: Like, whatever it is like that, that's something that has. It's a greater good type of sacrifice. Like, the man is on a mission, because a man that's not on his mission, like, that doesn't make his mission. Number one in life is a man that a woman is not going to be attracted to.

Nicole [00:22:38]: So are you saying I'm not number one?

John [00:22:40]: I mean, my mission, you're like, I'm

Nicole [00:22:44]: number two, but you don't want to

John [00:22:46]: come before my mission. Otherwise, like, every time that you're like, I want to spend time with you, then I would just drop my mission and spend time with you.

Nicole [00:22:53]: But what do you love more?

John [00:22:54]: Me or I love you more? Okay, that's the only answer that exists. Yeah. Yeah. But I wouldn't be myself.

Nicole [00:23:01]: But if I was drowning or your AI, which one would you say?

John [00:23:05]: 100%.

Nicole [00:23:05]: But that's not your mission.

John [00:23:06]: The AI have a backup copy of wow.

Nicole [00:23:10]: Maybe you could clone me. You'll be like, bye, I'll just make a new one. I have a billion dollars. It doesn't matter.

John [00:23:18]: I've actually already cloned you.

Nicole [00:23:20]: Oh. Oh.

John [00:23:20]: It's gonna take a while for them to grow up, though, you know? Wow.

Nicole [00:23:26]: Just waiting for my clones.

John [00:23:28]: Yeah, waiting for your clone to grow.

Nicole [00:23:30]: That's messed Up.

John [00:23:30]: That is messed up.

Nicole [00:23:32]: This.

John [00:23:33]: She's like, is that.

Nicole [00:23:34]: Is it true, though?

John [00:23:35]: Is it true, though? Does it, like.

Nicole [00:23:37]: Episode has taken a strange turn in many ways.

John [00:23:41]: What was I gonna say, though, before

Nicole [00:23:42]: I went off, Before I distracted you about your mission has to be first.

John [00:23:46]: Oh, yeah, yeah. So, like, okay, yeah. So if I didn't. If I wasn't on my mission right then I'd be a shell of myself.

Nicole [00:23:55]: True.

John [00:23:55]: So you get to spend all the time with me, but a shell of myself?

Nicole [00:23:59]: Yeah, well, you've kind of been a shell of yourself.

John [00:24:02]: Kind of like, not to, like a complete collapse degree, but definitely not the version of have something that you were

Nicole [00:24:08]: really, really, really passionate about.

John [00:24:09]: I'm a much better version of myself now. So the time that you spend with me, even if it's shorter, is more multiplied because it's with a better version

Nicole [00:24:19]: of myself, but it's also with AI.

John [00:24:20]: Okay, well, yeah, okay, I'll not talk to AI when I'm spending time with you.

Nicole [00:24:25]: Okay, you heard it here. Pinky promise.

John [00:24:29]: Fine, pinky promise. Okay.

Nicole [00:24:31]: You didn't want to do it.

John [00:24:33]: Well, if emergency comes, but okay, emergencies are different. Someone will have to call me and tell me it's an emergency.

Nicole [00:24:38]: So they will. If it's an emergency.

John [00:24:41]: If it's an emergency. There we go.

Nicole [00:24:42]: Okay, but see, you gotta do things like this. You gotta, like, compromise, you gotta talk, you know, but you also have to be realistic, like, as a woman, especially if you're a woman in a relationship like we have, you know, where you're the leader and you're the provider, like, you have to provide. That's the thing too, is, like, even though I want to spend all my time with you and all your time with me, we would have no money. You know what I mean? And, like, I don't need you to make a billion dollars. If you want to make a billion dollars and you're passionate about that, and passionate about what you're doing, sure. But, like, time with you while also supporting you in your passion and what you like is important, but you have to be realistic, obviously. Like, if your man is the provider, he's got to do what he needs to do to provide. Now, it does need to be balanced. I mean, you saw it here. You know, he's going to not be on his AI when we're together, but you have to talk about this kind of stuff, you know, like, you have to balance it out. Because I'm sure if I just roguely was like, yeah, do whatever you want. Work whenever you Want?

John [00:25:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:50]: When would we see each other? Not very often. I mean, like, we value each other enough that we would make the time regardless. Yeah, but I'm saying that like, what if we were a nonchalant couple or you know, something like that? Then you do run into the risk of like living separate lives. That's what it can turn into, is living separate lives. And so because even though you're working at home and like I might be home sometimes I'm not, I don't see you.

John [00:26:19]: Right. Yeah, a lot of times. Yeah, you don't.

Nicole [00:26:21]: So you do have to prioritize the relationship and make sure that it balances out the priorities of also your business or your mission or things like that. And I think it has to go both ways because also if you were like, no, I'm gonna work every single day no matter what, like we're not gonna have any date nights or whatever, like we can only do those on the weekends or something. And that's. If I don't have this, that wouldn't be very sustainable either.

John [00:26:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:52]: So it's like the man also has to figure out a way to fit some stuff in that feels a little bit more spontaneous. Because you also don't wanna get in a rut where you feel like it's just again like your roommates or you're living separate lives. But you also don't you wanna like balance it out. Yeah, but it would be hard if like you worked at Pizza Hut and you were just constantly at Pizza Hut. Yeah, I'd be like, what are you doing at Pizza Hut?

John [00:27:23]: Ever since you got out of jail, you've just been spending all your time at fuckin Pizza Hut. What is.

Nicole [00:27:27]: Yeah, but also if you got a job at Pizza Hut and you were

John [00:27:30]: like, I see your parole officer more than I see you.

Nicole [00:27:32]: I wanna have my own pizza place one day. And you're approving that and I could tell you were passionate about it. That'd be different. We would have conversations.

John [00:27:40]: Yeah, but John's killer Pizza

Nicole [00:27:47]: Lord. Well, is there anything else? I mean, you're the. You need to give a little bit more than that. We've just been joking for half of this time.

John [00:27:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:57]: Which is fine, but we can't have just the 27 minutes.

John [00:28:01]: 27 minutes of jokes.

Nicole [00:28:02]: Yeah, that's what people want.

John [00:28:04]: No, no, I think that's. I mean, I think we've pretty much covered most of what I was gonna want to talk about, but yeah, just like the choice. Because I think a lot of women complain that man works Too much. And that seems to be a relationship issue. But it's not that he works too much. It's that what he's doing is not important.

Nicole [00:28:23]: Right.

John [00:28:24]: Okay. He's not making a lot of money, or he's not, like, saving lives, or he's not doing his passion. Like, somehow it's not actually his mission. He's just doing this job to make money. It doesn't have that. And then also that he's not putting specific time. Right. Because it's not quantity of time, it's quality of time. Right. That's what you prefer. Right. So he's not creating the quality of time where something is planned out, where you've got his undivided attention, where you are made to feel like the time is quality. And that's what the real issue is. Because you could work crazy, ridiculous hours. Right. And a woman will be okay with

Nicole [00:29:08]: that as long as she feels prioritized or made to feel like you care about her.

John [00:29:14]: Yeah. And if you're a guy that's just available all the time, spending not on your mission, at first, a woman might think that she likes that, but pretty soon she's gonna be like, okay, like, go do something.

Nicole [00:29:27]: Or if you're used to hanging out together.

John [00:29:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:31]: Cause women do like that. Like I said, like, if I had the choice to hang out with you all the time, and then somehow we miraculously made money, I would like that.

John [00:29:39]: But would you rather hang out with me all the time, a shell of me? Cause I have no purpose or mission in life.

Nicole [00:29:46]: No.

John [00:29:47]: Versus hang out with me some of the time, but then I'm on my purpose.

Nicole [00:29:51]: No, I don't want you to be a shell of yourself.

John [00:29:53]: That's the thing.

Nicole [00:29:54]: I'm saying that, like, if you've been hanging out all the time and now you're trying to get back on your mission as a man, she might be upset at first. Because women do want to spend time with you. That's a good thing. I don't think you want a wife either, that doesn't want to spend time with you. That's like, sure, honey, whatever. And maybe that's also why some of these guys don't want to come home, is because they feel like their wives don't care if they come home or not. That could also be part of it too. Or it might be something else. But, you know, she might be upset at first if you have to focus on your mission. But she should understand and you should have a conversation and explain it to her. Tell her that you Love her first.

John [00:30:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:32]: But the mission.

John [00:30:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:34]: You know, you have to do the mission first.

John [00:30:36]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:30:37]: Because I think she'll understand. It's all about the communication, too. Because again, why is the guy who's not really on his mission but working all the time doing that? Like there's something going on.

John [00:30:47]: Yeah, Well, I have guys do that. I've coached too, where their wife complains they're working too much. And then so then they. Because their wife's complaining about it, then they back off and they're not working the hours that they should be, and they're not taking care of the responsibilities that they should be. And so then they get a divorce anyway. Because the wife is not happy anyway. Right. So. Because that wasn't the problem. Their problem wasn't. They thought it was, they're working too much. The problem was that they weren't doing something meaningful. They weren't dedicating the quality time. They weren't making her feel valuable. Right. So the work was not the issue. And they were a pushover already. Like, so they were. Again, like I said, they're in the situation where they're working all the time because it's which boss are they responding to? Right. Whichever one is putting the most pressure on them at the time. Right? So the woman boss, their wife boss is the boss that's like, hey, you're working too much. So then they're like, okay, I'm stop worrying. And then the boss boss is like, hey, you need to come in and do this work. And so they're just going back and forth, trying to please both people. And they have no backbone. Instead of being like, okay, making a decision for themselves, what should they do?

Nicole [00:31:58]: Yeah.

John [00:31:58]: They're the ones making the decision on their life, on what's important, on how this is gonna go. Right. As opposed to just going to whichever.

Nicole [00:32:06]: Which is true. But they also have to consider, if you're married, you have to consider your spouse as well, too. So it's not like, yes, it's like, where is your mission? That is a man's choice. But you do have to balance it.

John [00:32:19]: Yeah. Cause you have other responsibilities besides that.

Nicole [00:32:23]: Right. Your wife is also your responsibility. So you can't just be like, I'm gonna work whenever I wanna work.

John [00:32:29]: Like, well, it's like, even with, like, you know, in the last weeks when we had Sophia, right? And it's like, even though I have all this work, right? We made an agreement. Like, I was going to take her to the places, so I took her to the places. Right. So it's like, you know that I care about you because I'm doing the thing that I said that I'm going to do. Taking care of all the responsibilities, even if I am working a lot of hours, you know, that's like, I'm following through on what I said.

Nicole [00:32:57]: That's true. Yeah. Which that is honestly the most important thing.

John [00:33:00]: Because if I didn't do that, if I was working, like, imagine how the situation, how you would have felt if I was like, I told you that I was gonna take Sophie to these places, right. Drop her off at camp and stuff like that. And then. And I was like, well, I'm working so much, I need you to go and do it. Right. Considering the circumstances, you would have probably been like, not very supportive of what I'm doing now. Like, you would been probably upset and been like, okay, like this work is causing too much.

Nicole [00:33:29]: Right.

John [00:33:30]: You know what I'm saying? Like, you would have a different opinion of it than you do now.

Nicole [00:33:35]: That's very true.

John [00:33:36]: Right. I mean, I feel like it would have been different.

Nicole [00:33:38]: Yeah. No, you're right. Well, there's a lot of, you know.

John [00:33:41]: Yeah, there's a lot of stuff around that, but like, you know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:33:44]: No, but yeah, you're right. And that's a good point.

John [00:33:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:50]: And I think the follow through too thing is the most important. Like, you can't just put that above everything. You have to follow your word. You know what I mean? Like, if you're working a lot, but you told your wife you guys have a reservation at 7pm Right. Like, even if you're like, hey, I'm gonna be late, can you drive there separate? Like, sure. That does make a woman feel like you couldn't even prioritize, like, getting to the, like, it's different if it's like an emergency, but it does make a woman be like, okay, like, I've been holding space that you've been working a lot. And then you're still. Yeah, like, I don't feel prioritized in the little time that I get with you. You know what I mean? Or like you said you were gonna do this. Like, you can't. You couldn't have left a little bit or so major schedule where you aren't going to run into problems again. Like, if it's like some sort of accident or something. That's different. Yeah, like, but yeah, no, that's true. Like, and you know, if you're committing to your mission to that level, you also have to commit to Your other commitments to that level. You know what I mean? Like, you have to balance it out. You have to figure out when and where. Like, you're gonna have to organize and it might be kind of crazy sometimes.

John [00:35:08]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:08]: But as a man, I mean, you tell me all the time that you can handle that sort of stress, you know what I mean? And I do think men can handle that sort of, like, stuff better than women can.

John [00:35:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:19]: Like, I think that they can do it from a more like calm, not overwhelmed place and plan everything out.

John [00:35:26]: But.

Nicole [00:35:26]: Yeah, you do. It's a. It's a delicate balance. But if you do it right, like you said, you normally don't run into any problems. Like if your wife feels considered and feels respected and you're following through on the things that you say, you shouldn't have a problem working as much as you need to work. I mean, again, like, long term.

John [00:35:49]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:49]: You can't, you can't be working like 24, seven for five years.

John [00:35:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:55]: But also as a wife, you have to be understanding of like, what your husband is doing, where he's at. And I mean, he should be talking to you about this stuff as well too. But, you know, you have to do your part in understanding. A man has to do what he needs to do, but also prioritize time with her and then commit to being present in that moment.

John [00:36:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:19]: So, yeah,

John [00:36:24]: I think that's about. That's all that I've.

Nicole [00:36:26]: We had two long ones and two short ones not that long ago and then two short ones back to back.

John [00:36:32]: I mean, like, technically the one was a very, very long one because it was two hours.

Nicole [00:36:36]: That's very true.

John [00:36:36]: So.

Nicole [00:36:37]: That's very true. That was like a two hour one.

John [00:36:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:40]: Well, hopefully people actually got something from this one because it was a little silly, but also some good tidbits that

John [00:36:46]: you get something to get. Is the silly fun? Fun? Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:52]: As long as you stop talking about the pandas. I hope you forget about that. I hope that does not come.

John [00:36:57]: It'll forget in two weeks or so. Or what, four weeks or so. All right, that's it for this week. Make sure you check us out@betterthenperfectpod.com Send us an email if you have a question. Better than perfectpodcastmail.com Leave a review. Yeah, leave a review and we'll see you next week.

Nicole [00:00:00]: We talked about and we did a whole episode on the one lady who was like, dming people's spouses. This is to cause controversy, distrust. I get why people feel these things. If you're watching some guy interview a couple and all the girls that he interviews are texting other guys or on dating apps, you're going to start to believe that's a majority of even just

John [00:00:21]: stuff like de centering men that's ruining relationships. It's like shameful to have a boyfriend

Nicole [00:00:25]: or is having a boyfriend embarrassing or something?

John [00:00:27]: Right. Like that kind of stuff. It's like it's changing their psychology. Oh, yeah. Like maybe I been being walked on this whole time. They're in a perfectly good relationship. The guy treats them great.

Nicole [00:00:35]: A lot of people don't realize they're being influenced beyond the perfect.

John [00:00:39]: We discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the better than perfect podcast where we help you. I just keep on thinking of big titty pants. Wow.

Nicole [00:01:01]: Well, then why was it gonna help you? Gonna help you?

John [00:01:04]: I don't know. Because it was like. It was like two things going on in my head.

Nicole [00:01:07]: So did you create a whole nother, like, intro?

John [00:01:11]: Yeah, basically. Yeah. That was good.

Nicole [00:01:12]: Where we help you find pandas with well endowed chests.

John [00:01:19]: All right, welcome to the better than perfect podcast where every week we share with you how two imperfect people. I'm still thinking about pandas

Nicole [00:01:28]: helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

John [00:01:32]: That's right. There you go. Thank you. Helping me, helping me.

Nicole [00:01:36]: That's right.

John [00:01:36]: Out of this childish behavior.

Nicole [00:01:39]: Until the next episode, I'm sure.

John [00:01:42]: All right, so what are we doing today? We're doing. Oh, dating advice on TikTok is ruining relationships. Yeah, yeah, but not on YouTube. The Dating Vets on YouTube.

Nicole [00:01:52]: And we're also on TikTok.

John [00:01:54]: Okay.

Nicole [00:01:54]: Well, yeah, so, I mean, I think it. Well, I think you were kind of indifferent about doing this one, but I think it's important for us to do this one because we're on TikTok giving dating advice.

John [00:02:07]: Granted, no one's watching us on TikTok, so.

Nicole [00:02:09]: Wow, you sound like you're salty about that.

John [00:02:12]: A little bit. They used to give us all the views and now they give us none of these.

Nicole [00:02:15]: Yeah, we might have messed up somewhere, but so being people that are making relationship content, I feel like we have to talk about this. Sure. And so, I mean, obviously we're gonna sit here and be like, but our content is different.

John [00:02:31]: It Is different though.

Nicole [00:02:32]: It is different. But in some ways again I think like making content, especially short form content, like people who aren't sitting here watching.

John [00:02:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:44]: These whole like hour long episodes. It probably is problematic seeming. Right. Because let's think about what goes viral on social media. It's those small clips that can be taken out of contents, get everybody riled up and have bunch of people fighting in the comments. Yeah, but causing a lot of engagement. Right. So I do think that there probably is and I'm sure that we've even had some clips that got clipped to be controversial.

John [00:03:17]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:03:19]: You know, and cause a commotion because if you're wanting your messages or your videos or content to get to people and you're on social media, you do kind of have to try to follow the trends of how to get your reach across. However, I do think that sometimes its problematic ways, like clipping something to look controversial. We've all seen videos that are clipped to look controversial. I mean even people who make just random content will put in the beginning like a little snippet of like something that happened throughout the whole video so that you stay through the video. They give you a little bit of drama in the beginning.

John [00:04:00]: Well, some of it's just also just like directly bad advice. So for example, like the ones I can think of when people say that TikTok is ruining like creating distrust and, and ruining relationships is like those little videos where the guy finds a couple and he's like, okay, pull out your phones. And he's like, okay, can we, can we, let's look at your phone. Can we swap phones or whatever. And then they check the girl's phone and there's like all these messages from guys on there.

Nicole [00:04:28]: It's always the girl.

John [00:04:30]: Yeah, I think so. Because that, well that already.

Nicole [00:04:34]: One, I feel like that already sounded contrived in a way.

John [00:04:40]: Because who wants that? Because who wants that Content and cell

Nicole [00:04:44]: guys that are all on the Internet because they're in their mind so they're

John [00:04:47]: gonna get a lot of views on that. That's why. Right. So.

Nicole [00:04:49]: Right.

John [00:04:50]: Or the content where it's like, oh, let's see if, if, if he's on Tinder or she's on Tinder or whatever. And then they check and then like is that you? And they're thinking, no, I don't know why, I don't know, I forgot I had my account on or whatever.

Nicole [00:05:06]: Yeah, but I feel like also people.

John [00:05:07]: Yeah, like, but that's creating the distrust.

Nicole [00:05:09]: Right, right.

John [00:05:10]: Like that.

Nicole [00:05:10]: Well, especially if it's always one person. Because even if it was a girl and she's doing the same thing and it's always the guy cheating, Right. That's suspicious content in general. Right. Or like, even we talked about and we did a whole episode on the one lady who was like, dming people's spouses. Like, this is to cause controversy. This is to cause distrust. And I get why people feel these things. Because if you're watching some guy interview a couple and all the girls that he interviews are texting other guys are on dating apps.

John [00:05:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:46]: You're going to start to believe that's a majority of women.

John [00:05:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:50]: And vice versa. Like, if you're seeing all these things about this woman messaging all these people's husbands and they're all like, responding back to her, would cheat with her, you're gonna think that every man is like this. And so, yeah, I agree with you. That content like that. Which, like, would you call that, like, dating or relationship advice? I mean, that's more like.

John [00:06:12]: Yeah, I mean, it's still just like, stuff around in that realm.

Nicole [00:06:16]: Yeah, but.

John [00:06:17]: But even just stuff, like, like the women we did the one on de Platforming men or not decentering men. And it's like all these women, like, that's ruining relationships, right? Because you're like, selling that. That is like, shameful to have a boyfriend or like, like, basically, like, disrespect your man. Like, women are. Men are not. Not that. And like, it's like, like that kind of thing is like, I need to decenter my boyfriend from my life, from

Nicole [00:06:39]: my husband, from my having a boyfriend. Embarrassing or something.

John [00:06:42]: Right? Like that kind of stuff. It's like, because a lot of women are jumping on the bandwagon of that. They're seeing it's popular. It's changing their psychology. Right. They're being influenced by the thing and they're saying, oh, yeah, maybe this is right now. They're questioning their belie. Like, like, maybe I've been being walked on this whole time. I've been. They're in a perfectly good relationship, the guy treats them great, and now they have now come up with this. This thing.

Nicole [00:07:05]: They're being influenced.

John [00:07:06]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:07:07]: And a lot of people don't realize they're being influenced. Like you've said in the past, like, like people think that they are immune to being influenced, but if you're constantly seeing one certain type of content and it's content like boyfriends are embarrassing or like, your boyfriend's not a big deal, like, stop treating him like, stop. Like, stop Centering your life around your boyfriend or men or whatever.

John [00:07:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:31]: Like the more you interact with those videos or the more you see those videos, they will start to change something in you, like you said. And so I definitely agree with that. That like, I think people are getting influenced. Especially so many people are on TikTok or Instagram these days. And you know, if something goes viral, especially something like you said about the interview thing where it's like drama or controversial, people eat that stuff up. Like, people are still consuming majority of like. What's the word I'm looking for?

John [00:08:07]: Like brain rot.

Nicole [00:08:09]: Brain rot content. Yeah. Or like drama or like bad negative content.

John [00:08:17]: Right? Yeah, yeah. And it does influence you, whether you think so or not. That's why it's like these platforms are actually just probably not good to be even though we're on the platform. But. But what? But it doesn't matter. I still call it as it is because it is going to influence you. Like what you're scrolling. Like you can say that it doesn't influence you, but every single advertiser in the world, every Coca Cola and marketing or serial marketing is like, good. Please tell us it doesn't. Doesn't work on you. Like you're the one. It doesn't work. They love that. They love when they hear that. Because it does work on you. Because that's why they do it. They don't spend billions of dollars on advertising and marketing because it doesn't work on you. Right. It does work on you.

Nicole [00:08:59]: The bad thing too is that. Sorry, go ahead.

John [00:09:02]: No, no, go ahead.

Nicole [00:09:03]: That anyone can market to anyone now.

John [00:09:06]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:09:07]: Like, it's not just companies. It's not just like celebrities. It's not even just like people who got popular on YouTube like years ago. It's. Anyone can post any video and it can go viral and so many people can see it. And so, you know, that can be really damaging if it's the wrong message. And I think that recently too, I feel like people have trying to been like focusing more on following people or viewing content that's positive or like supports what they want for their life rather than the brain rot sort of like negative, like drama sort of thing. And I do think that's beneficial. I mean, obviously if you look at you and I, if someone's watching this, right, and they want to have a relationship like we have, then they should be watching our content.

John [00:10:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:07]: You know, we're kind of biased because we think everyone should have a modern, traditional relationship like you and I have. But it's like, if you're watching couples fight all the time on TikTok.

John [00:10:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:19]: Do you think that you're going to be loving and happy with your spouse? Like, even if, like, you're not arguing with your partner?

John [00:10:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:28]: Do you think that constantly consuming that content is going to create a deeper connection with you and your partner?

John [00:10:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:36]: Does that make sense?

John [00:10:37]: Yes.

Nicole [00:10:37]: You know what I mean? You have to be very conscious, especially today with, like I said, anyone being able to post anything that goes viral.

John [00:10:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:47]: With how you spend your time consuming content. And I think it is important for people like us to do podcasts like this or post content, because I know that deep down we want to help people. We've always tried to be transparent and open and real and honest about all the things going on in our relationship. How it's not always easy, but it should be easy to be with your partner. Like, life should be hard, not like your marriage shouldn't be hard sort of thing. And so, you know, I think that if we for some reason stopped because we felt like we were part of the problem, I don't think that would help the problem. I think it would make it worse.

John [00:11:36]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:37]: And so that's also why I wanted us to do this topic, because it's like, we should talk about the things that are potentially even hurting our message from being heard, which is all of these negative things. Chinese.

John [00:11:55]: Okay, sorry, go ahead.

Nicole [00:11:56]: No, I'm done.

John [00:11:57]: Yeah, okay.

Nicole [00:11:57]: You can go ahead.

John [00:11:58]: No, well, I mean, I was going to talk about also, like, don't get me started on the. The content that's aimed at young men. That is, you know, like, obviously, like that. That stuff that is super negative towards women predisposes them to believe all these things about women that are not accurate. Right. And then that causes plenty of problems in relationships. Right. There's just a lot of content that's created out there that is not designed to help you.

Nicole [00:12:25]: Right.

John [00:12:26]: It's designed to get views.

Nicole [00:12:28]: Engagement.

John [00:12:28]: Exactly. And it's a destructive philosophy. Right. But those are the things. But. But we're influenced by how many likes it has or how many comments. Like, there's a bunch. You go and you scroll down, you see a bunch of comments, a bunch of people agreeing about the thing, which is a bad idea, and then suddenly you think it's a good idea. Right, Right. That's what starts to happen.

Nicole [00:12:48]: What do they call that? It's like something confirmation, like confirmation bias, maybe. That's what it is.

John [00:12:55]: I think it's. I don't know. There's Some other psychological term for.

Nicole [00:12:59]: Right. It's like when everybody agrees with something, even though you don't agree with it, you start questioning it because everyone else agrees with it.

John [00:13:08]: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:13:09]: That is a huge problem.

John [00:13:10]: Yeah, yeah. So. And that's what happens with a lot of this stuff. That's why all these bad ideas end up becoming so ingrained in people's heads and then they think they know it because they've seen it on TikTok and a lot of other people created copy content of it. Because that's what happens. One viral idea and then people create copy content of that same idea and then it makes it look like that thing is actually valid, even though it's not valid. Right. But there's a lot of advice like that that is horrible, especially. But the most, the worst one is just anything that's divisive. Like I try to be as neutral as possible on the you're good Switzerland. But because divisive stuff against men, against women. Right. Like it's okay to talk about the things that happen, but when we make them divisive, then that is the kind of problem.

Nicole [00:13:59]: I know, I'm a problem.

John [00:14:00]: No, you're not.

Nicole [00:14:01]: On the last episode. No, I didn't get a little heated because it, it is a lot. Right, but no, you're right. And that is the better way to be. And it shows a more well rounded and mature approach to it. So like you said, when you see the like really divisive content.

John [00:14:22]: Yeah, because it charges people against, like, against their partner and stuff. Like even when, like, you know, it's like, like some woman's watching some content and then the guy's just sitting on the couch and then she fucking throws a pillow out of his head and is like, what the fuck did I do? Nothing. But. But someone on TikTok said some shit about men and now I'm angry at you because you're a man. And like, whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like that's the. That's what ha. Like that's a very dramatic version of it. But that's what happens. Like you're slowly programmed against your spouse or your partner because you're seeing rage, bait, content that is making. That's divisive. And now you're like, oh, I wonder if they're like this. Or I wonder if they're thinking this or you know, like which they don't even know why they're in trouble. Like what they did, you know, I'm saying it's like, I think that's what happens a lot.

Nicole [00:15:06]: That's true. Well, and the same could be for men because like you said, there's a lot of like, anti women content for men out there. And so, you know, they can start. Because I've heard stories even of men in relationships changing start watching.

John [00:15:22]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:15:23]: Anti women content. And then they start treating their spouse differently. So it definitely, like you said, goes both ways. But I think that a lot of content is not, like, specifically or consciously based on fear, but it is based on fear.

John [00:15:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:42]: Like, we're so connected to just everybody in a way that we're not used to. Like, we're used to now, but we weren't before.

John [00:15:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:53]: Like, so you could come across a video of some woman talking about her divorce and what her ex husband did. And then like you said, now some wife is like, what the heck? This lady's husband, like, went to Jamaica and told her that he was at work. Or, you know what I mean? And then now when her husband goes to work, she's gonna be like, where are you? Where are you?

John [00:16:20]: Jamaica.

Nicole [00:16:21]: So it's like now you're just hearing everybody's like, drama, right. And it's making everybody fearful and paranoid.

John [00:16:33]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:34]: And yeah, there's some highlight reels. Like people used to talk about, like, oh, like social media is just like the highlight reels. But now I think it is more it. People started diving into producing more realistic content. So they would talk about things like maybe they're going through a breakup or divorce and they would talk about it. But then they realized, I think along the way, that in a lot of ways the drama based ones or the more like negative ones are now getting more views, like you said, than the positive stuff used to get. And so now, and even there was a time where we were making content for your business that you literally said any, like, publicity is good publicity or whatever. And I'm like, I don't like that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want. And like I said, look, our best

John [00:17:25]: video is how to Kiss a Girl.

Nicole [00:17:26]: So which that's not too controversial, like

John [00:17:29]: 15 million views or whatever.

Nicole [00:17:30]: But. Which that's a good thing. But like I said, like, there have even been times where we've clipped some parts of our videos.

John [00:17:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:37]: To try to like, get people like, hooked in and want to watch the videos. But that shouldn't be how we do it. You know what I mean? Like, we do have to make clips. Like, we do want to help spread our message. Right. Because we come here to record these podcasts to help people and help their relationships. But I apologize for any clips that we have made that have come across maybe disingenuous because I don't want to be grouped in with the people that are problems on TikTok. Like, I want to be. I want us to be like the podcast that does actually help people in their relationships.

John [00:18:23]: Well, yeah. And we've been. We've been. That's part of the reason why we've been slow grow. Right. Like, we're growing slowly. We're getting more. Like we're finding our people and they're finding. And like our. Our episodes are starting to get more views, but very slow. It's been two years compared to, you know, we could grow a lot faster by making the content that are just going to go more viral.

Nicole [00:18:46]: Right.

John [00:18:46]: But it would be disingenuous, so it would be kind of like missing the point.

Nicole [00:18:51]: Right.

John [00:18:52]: So.

Nicole [00:18:53]: Right. Which, like. And I also get. It's hard to even determine who's genuine these days on social media and who's not. And that's hard for people to navigate. Right. Especially if they've been consuming so much negative content. They could watch our content and think that we're just making things up or something like that.

John [00:19:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:14]: I mean, speaking of, like, brain rot stuff, I've been watching Love island uk.

John [00:19:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:20]: But I bring this up because there's a couple that have been coupled up from the beginning and they almost got kicked off the show because they are like you and me. They spend all their time together. They've already, like, told each other they loved them. They're very respectful on, like, all the challenges and things like that. And like, you can tell they genuinely really like each other and people want to kick them off because they're not.

John [00:19:49]: Because they're boring.

Nicole [00:19:50]: Yes. They're not causing drama. They're not like, exactly mixing it up. And that's the problem. That's why I bring it up. It's like, like, we want to help people.

John [00:20:01]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:03]: But we're not growing as much because we're not trying to be. I mean, we've had some controversial things. We have some controversial opinions.

John [00:20:11]: Right. But they're.

Nicole [00:20:12]: But they're. We still respect people. We respect their decision.

John [00:20:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:18]: And we're not doing it. Not genuinely. Does that make sense?

John [00:20:23]: Yeah, it's a real controversial opinion, not a manufactured one. In order to get.

Nicole [00:20:27]: Right. To get views or get people to follow our podcast. And again, like, there might be some clips or something or some sort of conversations that we've had to, like, We've contributed to maybe some mainstream things, but I feel like we've always been very true to who we are and our relationship and our mission to, like, help people. I know, you know, people might not get a full picture because they don't see us all the time and we don't have, like, people who know us like in our everyday lives on here all the time. Maybe we need to get John and Sabrina back on. You know, like it's been a while. It's been a year, so. But like, we have helped a lot of people in our personal lives and we want to be able to spread that to as many people as we can. That's why we come on here.

John [00:21:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:16]: And we talk about all the stuff.

John [00:21:18]: We don't make any money. We pay money to produce the podcast. Right. Like it's, it's a negative. Every month it cost us a couple thousand dollars or so, like in all the costs to produce the podcast.

Nicole [00:21:29]: Right. So we're here. Look like, would it be nice if we got paid to do this? It would be nice. But, but for two years.

John [00:21:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:37]: We've just been doing it because we want to help people and that's always going to be the biggest thing. And again, that's why I'm saying, like, the people who know us, they. One can see how genuine we are and how we care about each other, but also that we want to help people and we do want to promote relationships. I know our last episode that was a part tour might not have seemed that way.

John [00:22:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:01]: But we do want to help people have relationships.

John [00:22:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:04]: And it might seem like sometimes we're hard on men, sometimes we're hard on women, but you do have to challenge yourself and better yourself and challenge each other in a relationship and grow together.

John [00:22:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:20]: And so, yeah, like I think that like you mentioned, there is a lot of kind of very shallow surface level content that is negative, that's dramatic, that is making people afraid of relationships, afraid of putting themselves out there, afraid of dating, afraid of men, afraid of women. And I think people need to stop consuming so much of that.

John [00:22:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:47]: Granted, that's like me sitting here trying to like fight against the popular thing, but. Well, it's like we do make a difference. Like, yeah, if you want better in your life, you have to focus on the better.

John [00:23:02]: Right. You need, well, discernment. Right. So it's like, right, okay. Every single piece of content, when you look at it, like regardless of what it's saying, you have to look at the, the, the, what is the character of the message, right? Is it love or fear? It'll always fall on one side of this, right? So it's like, if someone's saying something, are they saying it out of fear to inspire fear coming from a place of fear, or are they saying it from a place of love? Right? So that's what, you know, I like to think that our content comes from a place of love. We're trying to help you. We're not trying to, like, get you afraid of something. We're not talking from a place of fear. Right. It's coming from a place of love. So when we're speaking the truth, you might not agree with it, but we're doing it in a way that is coming from. We're just trying to help.

Nicole [00:23:50]: Right. We're not trying to get you to agree with us by tapping into your fear.

John [00:23:55]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:55]: We're trying to make you understand where we're coming from and understand that we've put a lot of thought and sometimes our own lives, mistakes or whatnot into it in order to get to the wisdom or point that we're making.

John [00:24:12]: Because even, like, you take some content, right? And someone says, okay, women initiate 90% of divorces or whatever. Statistically they do. Right. Okay, so why are they saying that? Are they saying that because men.

Nicole [00:24:24]: To be afraid of marriage?

John [00:24:24]: Well, maybe, like I'm. They could be saying that because of love. They could be saying that women, women initiate 90% of divorces. So as a man, you need to understand this because there's something that you might be messing up. And like, if you understand this, this will help you. I'm just making it. I'm just spitballing here. Or they could say, women initiate 90% of divorces. See how bad women are? You see what I'm saying? It can be multiple angles. Yeah. It's not necessarily the words. It's like, what are they trying to do with the words? Is it like trying to charge you against someone else so they're angry or upset about someone else, Are trying to help you understand something, to help you in your life?

Nicole [00:25:04]: Well, I do think if someone's just like, women initiate 90 of divorce and they don't say anything else. Yeah. I think that is trying to rope you in, like, with controversy. So, like, you do have to explain the different viewpoints. Right. But I get what you're saying that, like, someone can start a video with that and then throughout the video, it can be.

John [00:25:23]: It's like, what is. What is the. What is the connotation of the video? Like, like, what what are they trying to do? Yeah, right. With the video. So that's the thing is like with any of the content, it's like what is the motive? Like what are they trying to. Is it something that is hateful or something that's loving?

Nicole [00:25:40]: Right, right.

John [00:25:40]: And hateful content, you can see what it is you and, and you might agree with what they're saying. But if their motive is hateful content, then that's probably not good. Like it's, it's influencing you in a negative way. Whereas you could disagree what someone is saying, which is fine. But if they're. You don't have to agree with everyone's opinion. You don't have to agree with everything we say. But the question is like, where are they coming from? Are they coming from a place of divisiveness, trying to turn you against someone, trying to like influence you in a negative way? Like from a hateful place. Are they coming from a place of love and acceptance?

Nicole [00:26:12]: Yeah. No, I agree. I think the bad thing is too is that fear based or driven content creates more of a hunger to continue to consume that content. Right. So like if you're watching the news and like someone got murdered.

John [00:26:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:33]: Well, maybe, maybe men don't think about this but. And it was like right down the street from your house.

John [00:26:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:41]: You're going to want to keep watching the news to keep getting updated on that. Is he still out there? Is he close to my house?

John [00:26:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:49]: Like did they find him? Like is he in jail? What did he actually do? What's the crime? How many people did he kill? Or like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you're gonna want to keep consuming. So that's too why people, when they create the fear based content, it's to keep you hooked in the.

John [00:27:06]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:27:07]: You're more likely to be hooked in even if it's a really good, a happy story. It's like, oh, like, you know, this is how I found my dog on the side of the street. And we've lived 10 years happy together and we've traveled all these like, that's cute and that's a good story. But that doesn't reel you in to keep wanting to know the rest of the story. Like the fear based stuff.

John [00:27:32]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:27:33]: And unfortunately I think that's why all this negative content gets so much popularity. Like I will say that some feel good content for sure does get popular.

John [00:27:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:44]: But it's typically like very simple, shallow content. Whereas I do still feel like the negative and fear based content gets more attention.

John [00:27:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:56]: And the more we consume that just as a society in general, the more negative we have all become. Like, it's already happening.

John [00:28:05]: Like the big one is like, when it's not your fault content, right?

Nicole [00:28:09]: Oh, yeah.

John [00:28:10]: If it's not your fault. If someone. Exactly. If someone's like, oh, it's not your fault, it's this, it's that. That's what hooks people in. They want. That's the addictive content. You want to keep on consuming that because you don't want to like, but

Nicole [00:28:24]: which I think that that's more men content. Honestly. Like, I'm not saying that there's none,

John [00:28:29]: but decentering men is. It's not your fault. It's men. Men are the problem. It's not your fault.

Nicole [00:28:34]: I feel like that's actually saying it is your fault. Like you're centering men in your life and you need to stop. I think that's actually the opposite.

John [00:28:41]: No, but that, that's, that's a false responsibility. A spot. A false taking responsibility. Because it's, it's blaming, it's, it's saying it's not your fault. It's like, see, I would interpret that

Nicole [00:28:54]: because it is your fault. Like, if I was watching that, I'd be like thinking, oh, it's my fault. I need to stop focusing on men so much.

John [00:29:01]: Yeah, it's your fault because men are so bad. It's your fault because you see what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's actually, I don't know, it's your fault that you don't know. It's the same thing when, when guys are like, you know, it's your fault because you're, you're dating a thought. Like western women are thoughts so.

Nicole [00:29:22]: Well, see, I think the better example is when men are like, it's not your fault. Like, women are biologically chosen or like biologically wired to go for 2% of men and you're not the 2% of men. And so it's not your fault. That is what I feel like is blaming other people content. Like, I don't think the decent. I think honestly, I'm being honest. Like, I'm not trying to be contrarian. If I saw decentering men content and I was single, I would think that it's my fault for putting men in the center of my mind. And I would feel like, I do feel like women do actually tend to blame other women, whereas men blame women. Does that make sense? Like, I'm not saying they, I think women, their hateful content is based out of Fear, like the man versus the bear. It's like, who's more scary? Who's more likely to murder you? Like, that's not really blame.

John [00:30:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:17]: I think women, if they're going to blame anybody, they're going to blame other women.

John [00:30:21]: That's interesting. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:22]: Because even if a man cheats indirect, they don't typically blame the man. They blame the other woman.

John [00:30:28]: Hmm.

Nicole [00:30:29]: Which they should blame both of them. But you know what I mean?

John [00:30:31]: I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:32]: I mean, we have dealt with this personally.

John [00:30:36]: Yeah. I think women tend to create that. Yeah. Create content that is more like. More like shaming women. Shaming themselves.

Nicole [00:30:45]: They blame each other. Or shame.

John [00:30:46]: Shaming women. Men create content to shaming women. Women. Right. Everyone creates content shaming women. There you go. Yeah, but that's what sells. Right? But yeah, no, that's exactly. That's exactly right. Because women. Content that's aimed at women does not say blatantly men are bad. It says you're an idiot because you are listening to.

Nicole [00:31:10]: You listen to a man or something. Yeah, yeah. Well, there probably are some.

John [00:31:14]: Yeah, there's some.

Nicole [00:31:15]: I'm not gonna say. There's not.

John [00:31:16]: It's less of it, right? It's less of it. It's more like, I mean, even when

Nicole [00:31:20]: women get cheated on, they're like, oh, what was wrong with me? They're not ever, like, not initially. Usually like, oh, well, that was his problem. That.

John [00:31:29]: Yeah, it is, it is. It is not as simple as. Like I said, it's like, like, not like it's not your fault.

Nicole [00:31:37]: Right.

John [00:31:38]: Because. Because, because there is a lot of content that appears to be positive. Right, Right. Like, you need to do this with your life and do this. And it's like. But it's really just like blaming you for. It's blaming men or it's blaming women, or it's like. It's like. It's indirectly being like, you know, so it's.

Nicole [00:31:56]: It's like subliminal.

John [00:31:57]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:31:58]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John [00:31:59]: So that's where the. The. Is it coming from a place of fear? Because even if you're someone telling you to do positive things for yourself, but it's coming from a place of fear.

Nicole [00:32:06]: Right.

John [00:32:07]: That's. That's the indicator.

Nicole [00:32:08]: Right.

John [00:32:09]: But is it coming from a place of love? Right. Because it's like, oh, you need to.

Nicole [00:32:12]: It's like love yourself. Or is it. Is it like, do these things so you can pour into your own cup or do these things or else a man's never gonna wanna be with you ever again. You know what I mean? Or, like, you won't be attractive.

John [00:32:22]: Yeah, but the biggest ones are just the ones that are causing relationship issues because they are divisive against the sexes. Right? Like, that's. That's the ones that I think are the most.

Nicole [00:32:36]: I mean, even, like, our, like, research for topics and things like that. And one of them being like, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Like, people are so afraid, or they used to be, or they still are. To, like, show affection in public, to, like, show that they love someone. To, like, put those vulnerable words out there. Because they're afraid to look stupid if something were to happen. Right? Like, they're afraid to be like, I love this man so, so much. And then a year from now, if he cheated, she has to take all that down. You know what I mean?

John [00:33:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:14]: Or like, a man be like, I love this woman more than anything ever. And then they get a divorce, and then all the guys are like, I told you so, bro. Like, people are so afraid of those things happening. They're so afraid of, like, showing how they feel and being genuine and something bad happening and then making them look stupid or making them look just like what they saw or like, being like, see, I told you so. Like, they're so afraid of all the negative becoming true. Yeah, but we push each other into those negative positions and situations when all we do is consume mostly negative, controversial content, and then that's the only way we know how to live, because we're not consuming positive content or content of people that we admire or look up to.

John [00:34:09]: Yeah, well, and I think a lot of it has to do, too, with the algorithm, too, because, you know, I'm OG on YouTube, like, 20 years, right? Like, basically, I've been doing YouTube for 20 years. I've been doing.

Nicole [00:34:19]: That's a long time.

John [00:34:20]: Is that true? Am I lying? 46, 36, 26. No, it's pretty close to. Maybe it's. Maybe it's like 18 years or something like that. But. But back in the day in social media, you followed people or you subscribed to their channel, and that's what you saw, right?

Nicole [00:34:34]: Only their.

John [00:34:35]: So even on Facebook, like, you would see your friends, you would. You would see their stuff on Twitter, you would see who you follow.

Nicole [00:34:42]: Instagram. Right?

John [00:34:43]: Instagram, you see who you followed, right? And so when you did follow a creator, right? A lot of it was your friends and stuff, but when you did follow a creator, you picked which creator that you followed and you watched their content. And when new YouTube videos came out it was from the people that you subscribe to. Right. And so then you were picking. Right. Whereas now it's being fed to you.

Nicole [00:35:07]: That's true.

John [00:35:08]: And so you were selective. Yeah. So that's what's. What's fielded a lot is because. Because you could pick the good stuff that you want, that you agreed with. That was good message, that was positive. But now you can't. Now you're force fed whatever comes down the feed.

Nicole [00:35:22]: Well, true, but on TikTok you can't. There is a tab just for people you're following.

John [00:35:28]: Yeah, there is, but people don't use that.

Nicole [00:35:30]: I use that.

John [00:35:31]: Oh, you do use. Okay.

Nicole [00:35:32]: Yeah, I do. Because sometimes stupid stuff comes up and I'm like, I don't want to see all this random stuff.

John [00:35:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:38]: Like, I want to see the people that I chose to follow.

John [00:35:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:41]: I don't know if I know. Like Instagram, I don't think does that. I think there's still random stuff in there.

John [00:35:47]: Yeah, but still you're still going to find yourself on the regular feed a lot of times as well too. So it's like. And then you're going to get. You know.

Nicole [00:35:53]: Yeah.

John [00:35:54]: Because how do you find that?

Nicole [00:35:54]: But at least there are.

John [00:35:55]: But at least there's a way. Yeah, that's true.

Nicole [00:35:57]: That's it with that. So I don't know if it's on the other ones, but. But no, you're right. And I think people kind of need to go back to that. They kind of need to figure out a way if it's using like on TikTok, just the people you're following. Like, you should be following people that you admire or you value their content or their wisdom or whatever they're doing. But unfortunately, sometimes people follow people just for the drama or like, what crazy thing are they going to post or what are they going to do next? Like, you should be wanting to take advice from people you look up to. Or if you're looking for relationship advice. Like, I'm not gonna follow some reality star couple that has all this drama. If I want a healthy relationship, I'm gonna follow people that are promoting a healthy relationship.

John [00:36:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:50]: That like, put it to the test, that, like do that show that they do that. I'm gonna follow them. I'm not gonna follow somebody. Relationship that I don't want.

John [00:37:00]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:37:01]: You know what I mean? So that's. I think we need to get back to that. Like you said, get back to kind of like the old days. I mean, we can't make it totally where you just see the people you follow, but be more intentional with who you follow or who you. Whose videos you watch. And even if you are on a feed where you can't control what pops up, you can scroll. Like, if someone starts talking and they start saying some crazy stuff that's controversial or negative. Yeah, scroll. Don't finish it.

John [00:37:30]: Consciously.

Nicole [00:37:31]: Yeah, don't finish it.

John [00:37:32]: But you know what happens, though? The algorithm's smart enough that if you just. If it. It knows if it caught your attention. Even if you scroll, it knows if you. If you. If your eyes went to the thing.

Nicole [00:37:42]: If you're like, is it watching our eyes?

John [00:37:44]: I think, I think it. I think. I'm not sure on that. I can't tell you for sure, but it. It. It knows behavior on how long it took you to scroll or if you put your finger off or put it back on and like, to that level of, like, this one caught your attention.

Nicole [00:37:58]: TikTok has it, but I know, like, Instagram has, like, I don't want to see this type of content. People need to be using that as well, too.

John [00:38:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:06]: So that should. Hopefully they shouldn't overpower that. I hope. But who knows?

John [00:38:10]: But I want to see this kind of content. Better than perfect podcast type of content.

Nicole [00:38:14]: That's right.

John [00:38:15]: I guess we should probably wrap it up. Unless you got 37 bits.

Nicole [00:38:20]: Is it because it's 37 or because it's over 30 minutes?

John [00:38:24]: I mean, yeah, just you're like, both. Both.

Nicole [00:38:27]: But I mean. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that we just needed to talk about this.

John [00:38:32]: Yeah. Only watch our content, obviously. Like, the rest of the content is trash. Yeah, that's. I mean, that's all that you really needed to hear.

Nicole [00:38:41]: I feel like that's not realistic. That doesn't seem genuine. Even though we do give good advice. Like, I think that kind of seems a little part of the problem.

John [00:38:53]: I'm not biased. Okay.

Nicole [00:38:55]: Yeah, you don't seem biased at all.

John [00:38:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:58]: Based on what you just said. But no, we're going to keep showing up. We're going to keep being genuine and help people. Hopefully, that's what we're here to do.

John [00:39:09]: All right, we'll see you next week. Make sure you check out our website@betterthan perfectpod.com and you can subscribe in there and shoot us an email. Betterthenperfectpodcast gmail.com. see you next week. Bye.

John [00:00:00]: What does a successful guy, a player, want that he doesn't have in his life?

Nicole [00:00:04]: Love. Well, see, men don't care about love. Is that what it all boils down to?

John [00:00:10]: Yeah. I mean, yes. Right?

Nicole [00:00:11]: But men don't care about love.

John [00:00:13]: No, no, no, no. I'm not saying men don't care about love.

Nicole [00:00:15]: You just said yes.

John [00:00:16]: No, no.

Nicole [00:00:16]: Men are so complicated. They act like women.

John [00:00:19]: It's not that complicated.

Nicole [00:00:20]: I said in the first one that men are the rogue ones. Men ruin everything.

John [00:00:24]: I can predict a man's behavior.

Nicole [00:00:26]: Oh, Lord.

John [00:00:27]: Beyond the perfect we discovered through we complete each other.

Nicole [00:00:34]: Better than perfect.

John [00:00:36]: We stay through every fault we find.

Nicole [00:00:41]: No way.

John [00:00:43]: All right, welcome to the Better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. Relationship.

Nicole [00:00:53]: That's right.

John [00:00:54]: And we crush dreams. We crushed the dreams. Here we're back with part two of Dream Crushing.

Nicole [00:00:59]: We'll see if John can turn this around, because I'm not. Again, feeling very hopeful.

John [00:01:04]: Well, okay, so in the first episode last week, if you haven't watched it, check it out. We posed a question. Would a woman prefer a man who's broke but faithful versus a man who's rich but not faithful? There's a cheater. And we talked about that and went off into a few different rabbit trails about biology. But the big thing that you're leaving it with was. Was what? Like, kind of gloom and doom for women. Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:34]: I mean, I understand why women don't want to date. Like, I would just be single if I felt like most men, if they had the option, are gonna cheat. Like, some women are saying they'd go for the rich guy because all men are going to cheat anyway. But that's also seems like it would be a sad existence. I guess my thing is I'd rather, like, be alone and enjoy my life and not have to worry about a man.

John [00:02:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:01]: Like, doing those sort of things. If I were in that position, then, like, just be with a man for his money and not care if he cheats or not. Because then it's like you're. You're either gonna probably end up cheating.

John [00:02:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:15]: And then it's basically going to be an open relationship, which aren't. They don't work very well, honestly.

John [00:02:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:22]: Unless it's just a business deal. Yeah, yeah. Or you're gonna be so unhappy but have money, which is not gonna make you happy. Like, yes, you'll survive. You'll be able to do more things. Like I mentioned in the other Episode.

John [00:02:39]: Right?

Nicole [00:02:39]: But you won't be happy. Whereas if you're single, you're making however much money you wanna make based on your ambition, you're living how you wanna live, and you don't have to worry about someone cheating on you behind your back. So.

John [00:02:53]: Yeah, well, I think the key is what you said, which is relationship. And I think, like, what we were talking about in the previous episode was like the basic biology, like, what will women like? There's two things. The basic biology of what women are inclined to do and men are inclined to do by their biology and then what women will choose. So it's a choice. If you're choosing the rich guy that will cheat on you, that's a choice that you're making. You don't have to make that choice. But then I think the key is what you just said, which is relationship, which is. That is the thing that supersedes those. Those other things, right? So in all the situations in which, which that, that. That are the bad situations, like the rich guy that cheats or whatever, like all these, these situations, it is a situation where their relationship is not. Aspect is not there. Right? Like, obviously a woman, that is what the guy, for his money, doesn't care if he cheats, is not investing into a relationship and is not requiring that guy to invest into a relationship. Like, that relationship doesn't really exist. It's a. It's a transaction to a degree. It becomes more transactional of a relationship. But that's why, like, what we're doing on this podcast is teaching people to have better than perfect relationships. Those relationships are the thing that binds the two together. Right? And those things are stronger. And so there is hope in the sense that, like, you have to. This is why even, like, the things that we say on the podcast that people don't like, like the six rules for the relationship and like no 5050 relationship. And that you have to have a modern, traditional relationship where the man is the leader and the woman follows that man's lead and trusts that leadership. These are all core fundamental things that people don't like to hear, but they also create the foundation that overrides the biology that creates the depth of connection and intimacy, that creates a bond that is much less likely to be broken.

Nicole [00:04:59]: But I still have an issue.

John [00:05:01]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:02]: And I'm curious to see what you think about this. So I agree with you that when you invest in the relationship and you have those rules and things that we talk about a lot on here, that helps get you to a more invested place and I think as a woman, a man has to be invested in you, period. Like, you should not be in a relationship if you feel like he's not invested in you.

John [00:05:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:27]: In whatever way, in multiple ways. It should be multiple ways, but he has to be invested in you. That's the bare minimum. But I do want to bring up that there are men that cheat that say that they're happy with their wives and that they love their wives. So again, like, I'm still not feeling very convinced because one, you said if they could cheat, majority of men would unless they have discipline.

John [00:05:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:59]: And now, which is rare, a lot

John [00:06:01]: of men are going to in the comments disagreeing with me about that.

Nicole [00:06:04]: Well, they're just going to be mad

John [00:06:06]: anyway, but they're not correct. Like, I stand by what I said. Like, I do believe the majority of men, if they had the option, would cheat, because the majority of men don't have the option. And so they don't know. They think that they wouldn't, but they don't have the option.

Nicole [00:06:18]: I guess what would make me feel better is maybe you explaining how a woman could feel safe and secure in her relationship despite these things that you've said that obviously go against it. And like I said that we both know that a man who's in a happy relationship and loves his wife would cheat. So how. I guess that's my thing is like, how can a woman.

John [00:06:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:45]: Like, hear all these things and then you be like, he has to invest. And I agree with you. But there also are men who are invested that cheat as well. So.

John [00:06:53]: Okay, let me start with the easiest one, right? That gives a lot of women a little bit more peace of mind, right? Which is that majority of men that can't cheat won't ever. Because they can't. So. I know, I know. That's not like the. But in reality, if you're married to some dude and he's not super successful, he's just. He's a good guy. You love him, he loves you. He's not going to the bar and women are hitting on him. Whatever. He's not going to the gym. He's. He's just whatever. Then, like, he's not gonna have the option, so he's probably not gonna have the temptation. So there's probably not gonna be a problem. I just wouldn't. I wouldn't take him to Thailand, though.

Nicole [00:07:35]: But see, men might be fine with that. Women are not. I know, but women are not fine with the answer of, like, I got that. He can't. So Be happy that he can't.

John [00:07:45]: I know, I know. But like, but that's a majority of men and majority of relationships. And so the thing is, is it's like you're going to be ignorantly.

Nicole [00:07:56]: You have not made it any better

John [00:07:59]: for you because you, you're, you understand all this. But for the majority of women, right, that are just in a relationship with a regular dude, right?

Nicole [00:08:07]: And like, I'll be fine knowing that he just can never get laid. So they're, they're like, well, I guess

John [00:08:12]: I'm safe, but they don't even know that. But that's like, that's the, the safety net. Most of the time that's going to just be fine, right? Because there's no risk of that happening

Nicole [00:08:23]: until he glows up or something.

John [00:08:25]: Okay? That's, that's the risk if you got to keep him down, see, got to keep him fat, feed him a lot of food, just feed him, cook for

Nicole [00:08:36]: making this better for women.

John [00:08:39]: That's why women used to like, that's why women used to fatten their husbands up, you know, that's like in the old country, like give them a lot of food so that he's, you know, gets nice and fat. No.

Nicole [00:08:48]: Okay, that one didn't help. Okay, so next one.

John [00:08:50]: Okay, okay, next one. Is this so successful guys. So, so I said that women should date successful guys, right? Like that. That's true. Right? I know all the haters in the comments, I know they're like, whatever, fuck, fuck you guys. But like just be successful. Like you can do.

Nicole [00:09:07]: Just be successful.

John [00:09:08]: Yeah. I mean, it's not that hard. It's not that high of a bar. Most men aren't even trying to. Right. They're just watching porn and like doing whatever and like wasting their time. Exactly. I'm not saying you can't play video games and I'm not saying, well, whatever.

Nicole [00:09:21]: But, but, no, you are saying but,

John [00:09:23]: but, but be successful. Like, and then do it, right? Like if any man today that wants to be successful and dedicates his life to being successful can. It's not a high bar. It's not like we live in the middle evil times where like you're a peasant and so, well, you look like

Nicole [00:09:40]: you're in the medieval times.

John [00:09:41]: I am in the medieval times. But, but what I'm saying is I. So I said women should date successful guys, right?

Nicole [00:09:46]: Yeah.

John [00:09:47]: So what does a successful guy, a player guy, want that he doesn't have in his life?

Nicole [00:09:55]: Love. Well, see, men don't care about love. Is that What? It all boils down to yes.

John [00:10:03]: Yes. I mean. I mean yes, right?

Nicole [00:10:04]: But men don't care about love.

John [00:10:06]: No, no, no, no. I'm not saying men don't care about love.

Nicole [00:10:08]: You just said yes.

John [00:10:09]: No, no. I was saying yes, that love is so complicated.

Nicole [00:10:14]: They act like women.

John [00:10:15]: It's not that.

Nicole [00:10:16]: I said in the first one that men are the rogue ones. Men ruin everything.

John [00:10:20]: I can predict the man's behavior, okay?

Nicole [00:10:23]: Oh, Lord.

John [00:10:24]: So what. What is. What is he missing from his life? The player dude, right? He's got money, he's got women.

Nicole [00:10:29]: I obviously don't know.

John [00:10:31]: What is he missing?

Nicole [00:10:31]: I don't. I said love, and you said partially love.

John [00:10:34]: Let's say partially. But what else?

Nicole [00:10:36]: Companionship.

John [00:10:38]: Okay? But he has companionship for the night or whatever. He can have women around him if he wants.

Nicole [00:10:43]: I don't know. Then, okay, I'm not a man.

John [00:10:46]: Right? He's missing, right? The rocket fuel in his rocket, right? He's missing the woman, the support. The support, right? He's missing the woman who stands behind him, who, like, supports him, who, like, you know, who is like his. Who assists him in his life, right? Who trusts him, who follows his leadership, like, who respects him. Right? Those are the things that he's. He's missing because the random women that he's having sex with, they're not really. That. They're not really like. Like, I respect this guy so much. Like, I would follow this guy. They're like, this guy, he has money, right? Like, and he's charming, right? But what I'm saying is that that's what he's missing, right? From life. Because you can have all the money, you can be successful, but if you don't have a good woman in your life, in fact.

Nicole [00:11:36]: But cheat on that woman too.

John [00:11:38]: Majority of men that are successful have a woman in their life backing them, right?

Nicole [00:11:42]: Yeah, we already talked about this at one point.

John [00:11:44]: Okay, But.

Nicole [00:11:45]: But he will still cheat on that woman potentially.

John [00:11:48]: But it's less likely if a man had all the options and then he chose one that he would cheat. Right? But also, then that becomes the. The relationship. The depth of the relationship that. That she builds with that man. Right? Like, okay, like, take. Take my situation, right? Like, like me, I've already been the. The cheater guy, right? Like, we don't have time to get into the whole story, but I repented and that was. There's a complicated situation. I don't condone it.

Nicole [00:12:16]: You can go look at the episodes.

John [00:12:17]: Yeah, but, you know, and I was a player and did all the pickup stuff and all that stuff, so. And coached it. Right? So that's why I'm coming from this background. But. But, like, you take my situation with you. Like, we have a public podcast. Yeah, that's. That's a good insurance. But, you know, on relationships, that's also good insurance. But.

Nicole [00:12:36]: So, yeah, if John does something stupid.

John [00:12:39]: Aren't you that guy from that podcast? Like. No, I don't know what you're talking about.

Nicole [00:12:43]: And against all the men in the world podcast.

John [00:12:47]: But, like, you, like, back me, support me, right? Like, you make me better, right? I. I recognize the value that you bring to my life because I see it every day, right? I see the person that you are. I see how you help me when I'm struggling. Right? I see how you have my back when nobody else does. You. You give me what I need to be the man to be a better man. You make me better because I'm with you.

Nicole [00:13:24]: And that's cute. Okay? You're the only good man left. Sorry. And Rodrigo.

John [00:13:30]: But you see, like, that is an immeasurable value that you bring to my life. And because of that, I wouldn't throw that away. It would be. I would lose everything if I lost you. You know what I'm saying? And would get my banana chopper gone. Yeah, Kendall, But. But that's. That's the thing. That's what's powerful, right? And so that's the best guarantee, the best. Right. That you can possibly have is being that kind of woman for a man that's already successful, that already has all of these things, but he knows that his life is better because of you because you make him a better man, because you make. Make him stronger, because you're the rocket fuel in his rocket. Yeah, he can't get that from anywhere else.

Nicole [00:14:22]: But what if a woman's been that for a man and then he cheated on her, and then now she's, like, jaded and, like, hardened because of it.

John [00:14:31]: But maybe she hasn't been that for him. Maybe she's tried to be that for him in the same way that men say when a woman leaves and gets a divorce and she's. And he's like, I worked. I provided money and food and clothing, and I took the kids to baseball games and did all the right things, but then he didn't actually, like, have a real, like, intimate relationship with her and see her and appreciate her and validate her emotions and do those other things that are more important to her. And so maybe the woman's like, well, I Paid. I worked a job while he was going through medical school, and, like, I was there and doing all these things. But did she respect him? Did she make him feel like the man? Did she make him feel like the leader, that she trusted his judgment? You see what I'm saying? Because those are the things that actually matter at the end of the day. Right. Like, for a man. That's what matters to me. That's why you're so important to me and so critical to my life, is because you make me better.

Nicole [00:15:30]: Yeah.

John [00:15:30]: Do you understand what I'm saying? So that's.

Nicole [00:15:32]: That's why I understand what you're saying, and that's fair to say.

John [00:15:34]: And I'm not saying that some people

Nicole [00:15:36]: don't realize that they're not doing what actually makes their partner feel supported or valued. So.

John [00:15:43]: So. And that's why we're doing this podcast, too. So you can see what that is, you know, so people can see what that is.

Nicole [00:15:48]: Well, you've given me a little hope after all the nice things that you said.

John [00:15:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:52]: But I still think that's hard to find. You know? Like, I think it's like finding a needle in a haystack today.

John [00:16:01]: Right. Right.

Nicole [00:16:02]: Like, at least you gave me some hope that there are some men like you out there that feel the same way that you feel and want that and would value that over variety, over, like, going back out in the field and having whatever woman you want, whenever you want. Multiple women.

John [00:16:19]: Like, but you build that. So it's. It is something that. That you're to a degree in control of because you build that. You choose to invest and have that kind of relationship and to build those things and to understand and to study. How many women actually study a man to find out what he wants?

Nicole [00:16:36]: Yeah.

John [00:16:36]: No, no, no. One. That all women or not all women, but most women are reading relationship books about what they want, not about what. How they can give it to the man. They're not reading the Surrendered Wife or, you know, or the Queen Code or those books that we recommend. Like, those are books that will help a woman to create that kind of relationship. Like, because they're all just thinking, what. What do I want? Like, how does man need to be for me? Instead of realizing, how should I show up for this? More women did that. I'm not saying that. That it's like, men are not responsible for cheating, but I'm saying that they could create what they actually want and have the security that they want.

Nicole [00:17:17]: Which I think that. I think you're right. I'm not saying you're not right, but I think they focus more on trying to find the right man because it is hard to find the right man. And you're telling them to go after the minority of men, Right? All women to go after the minority. And that's going to be hard. But I agree with you that I don't think women know how to lift men up because as a society, majority of women are tearing men down.

John [00:17:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:46]: And so I do agree with you that women should take the time to read those books because especially if you found a good man that you do trust and you want to be with, right? And is a needle in a haystack, you do need to build that man up and be his rocket fuel and support him. And so I agree that that is important and I do think it doesn't get talked about as much because as a society, we're just used to in general tearing each other down. But women definitely tear men down and men definitely tear women down.

John [00:18:20]: Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I mean, because a lot of women are frog farming, right? The Queen's Code is the book we're talking about here. The other one is the Surrendered Wife and the Empowered Wife. Those are the three books that you should read as a woman. But like, think about how rare that is, right? For a man to find a woman that actively respects him, treats him as a leader, like, understands what he wants and tries to provide that for him. Like, is trying to be that. Right?

Nicole [00:18:53]: I'll tell you why it's rare, right?

John [00:18:54]: Why?

Nicole [00:18:55]: Because majority of men would cheat if they could. How can you respect men? I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but how can you respect men as a collective if a majority of them would cheat if they would. And as a woman, you're supposed to be okay or happy that your man can't get women, so you're fine.

John [00:19:19]: That's the frog farmer though, right? Remember, the Queen's Code is like, if you come in with that premise and you treat men that way, you're going to get that you're frog farming, you're creating the frogs, Right? Whereas if you take a man, like, and you take, if you take a

Nicole [00:19:36]: man, but what if you actually are meeting frogs? Like, yes, I agree. Like, I'm not saying that women should focus on this, but at the same time, like, you know, like, it's really hard, right? As a woman, when you've been in relationships, you've been cheated on.

John [00:19:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:56]: But okay, and I'm not saying to, to have like A negative view of men. But it is hard. Just like men have a hard time finding a positive view of women when they've experienced women doing negative things to them. I'm not saying that's the right way to be. And I do think you should. Like, women should read those books. I'm not saying they shouldn't. But it is still really hard to hear that a majority of men would cheat if they could. That's really hard to hear. And I think that if I sat here and was like, a majority of women would cheat if they could.

John [00:20:32]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:20:33]: It's different. I get that before all the men are like, it's different. Women can get laid whenever they want to. I understand all those points. So that's what I'm saying.

John [00:20:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:43]: Do you think men would be like, no, we need to focus on the positive of women. When I'm sitting here telling you a majority of women would cheat or a majority of women just want your money and they're going to divorce you.

John [00:20:57]: We know that's not a case. That a majority of women would cheat because they can. Because all women can and they don't. So that just seals the deal that men cheat more than women opportunistically. Right.

Nicole [00:21:11]: I'm just saying.

John [00:21:12]: But the thing is, even if you say a majority of men would cheat. Sure, if they could. However, a majority of men do not have a woman that respects them, that gives them all of those things that I talked about that you give me. And if they had that, then they wouldn't even if they could.

Nicole [00:21:28]: For sure.

John [00:21:29]: For sure.

Nicole [00:21:31]: I guess. How can you explain, like, I believe you, but can you explain, like, why that is?

John [00:21:41]: I'll tell you. I'll tell you why.

Nicole [00:21:43]: Like, solidifying the relationship.

John [00:21:45]: Because one thing about men that's biologically kind of wired into men is protection. Protecting the people that are. That they are responsible for.

Nicole [00:21:57]: So can I do a little side note, though?

John [00:21:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:59]: If that's true, why would you cheat on somebody? Because that's not protecting the person.

John [00:22:03]: Exactly. That's exactly where I'm going.

Nicole [00:22:04]: Okay, sorry.

John [00:22:06]: So a man will fiercely protect his child. You do not want to. With a man's child. Right. He will kill for his child. Right. Not so much for his wife. Why? Because she hasn't created. Because he doesn't really feel like he's the leader. He doesn't really feel like she respects him. He doesn't really feel like he's in, like, in charge of her. Like, in. In the sense of. When I say charge, I mean in Charge, but also, I mean, like, responsible for it. Responsible that she's in his charge. And so if a woman has put everything into a man. And when I say everything, I don't mean what women think is everything. It's not what women think is everything. I'm talking about really respecting, trusting, you know, like relying on the man's leadership, putting your hands into, you know, your life into his hands. He's way more likely to not do something that would harm that person. Now, again, it doesn't guarantee. There's no guarantee. I'm not saying. But I'm saying that biologically, that instinct of protection, women have to know how to trigger that in a man. Right. And that is being helpless in the sense that like.

Nicole [00:23:25]: Like needing him.

John [00:23:26]: Yeah, Needing him. Need. You know, I'm saying, like, if. If a man feels like, oh, this woman doesn't need me, then he's much more likely to be like, well, it doesn't matter if I cheat on her, because it doesn't matter that much. I'm not. Like, it's so much of a greater offense to imagine because he doesn't feel like he needs to protect her. And she's like, I don't need you to protect me. She's giving that signal to him that, I don't need you. I don't need you to protect me. I got myself. So then why would he have that? It's not triggering that protection instinct. And this is not happening at a cognitive level. It's happening at a subconscious, biological level. That's where these things are occurring.

Nicole [00:24:09]: I guess I just assume that men's need to protect was not like, tit for tat. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like women's biological desire to nurture is not like, oh, I'm gonna nurture you because you're my dog. Like, yes, you're gonna nurture your dog. Cause that's your dog. But if some random dog on the street came up to you, you're not gonna not nurture it because it's not your dog.

John [00:24:34]: No, but if you have to choose between the two and you only have enough food for one. You know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:24:41]: Like, which I get that, but I.

John [00:24:43]: But women are less tribal.

Nicole [00:24:44]: I'm just confused that it's like, you wouldn't just protect.

John [00:24:48]: Right. Women are less tribal. Yeah. I think men in general will protect people, but they will fiercely protect their tribe.

Nicole [00:24:58]: But you feel like your wife's not your tribe.

John [00:25:00]: Not if she's not acting like your tribe. If you're not the leader.

Nicole [00:25:03]: But even if you committed to her and you married her.

John [00:25:05]: Yeah, but it doesn't matter. Like, she has to choose. It's like we had the one episode where we were talking about a man being in charge, essentially. And I was saying that, like, well, we talked about protection there. And I said, okay, let's say that you're in a safe house, right? And I'm the police officer or whatever in charge of, like, when is protection protecting you? And I'm like, okay, I need you to stay in this house and you go out there, and then you don't get. And then you're not protected. I'm offering my protection. But. But you have to. You have to be in my kingdom. I protect the people in my kingdom. If you're like, I can do whatever the fuck I want. You're not my king. You. You don't tell me what to do. Then I'm not protecting you. Like, you. In order to get my protection, you have to be in my kingdom. I protect the people that are in

Nicole [00:25:51]: my kingdom, which I get that. But that is still your wife. You did still marry that person. You did still make a commitment to that person.

John [00:25:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:57]: And so, like, by just choosing that, you don't want to protect them anymore.

John [00:26:03]: It's not even a choice. It's a subconscious thing. But you're right in the sense that you still have an obligation. But it feels like an obligation and a commitment. As opposed to an instinctual drive, which because you're trying to override one instinctual drive, you need a stronger other one. Right. I think that's what it comes down to. The instinctual drive is man sees attractive woman, he wants to mate with that woman. Right. The instinctual drive that you're overcoming with another instinctual drive is a drive to protect. That one is stronger, but it has to be triggered, and it's only going to be triggered by someone who he feels like is actually in his kingdom, is actually someone who. Who actually sees him as the leader who's depending on. On this man.

Nicole [00:26:44]: Yeah, Right.

John [00:26:45]: Not from financial perspective.

Nicole [00:26:47]: And I'm not trying to argue that that point is wrong, because you're right. It is something that I feel like women are lacking these days because they haven't read the books and they don't really know how to treat a man that they do value and respect. Like, not fully. They don't know how to relinquish control to that man, you know, or let go of it and allow a man to lead. So I do agree with that. I'm just saying that, like, I think if you made a commitment and you're not feeling like you want to protect that person, there needs to be a conversation.

John [00:27:23]: Yeah. There's no excuse.

Nicole [00:27:24]: There needs to be like, a dissolving of the commitment, AKA a divorce.

John [00:27:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:27:30]: If you don't want to protect that person and, like, you would just go cheat, which would obviously not protect that

John [00:27:37]: person, there's what should happen, is there? And then there's what does happen. Right. So it's like, what should happen. I agree with 100, but you're talking to the wrong audience because, like, the woman who's trying to build security in her relationship, it doesn't matter if you tell her that her man should hear this thing that you're saying.

Nicole [00:27:58]: Yeah.

John [00:27:58]: It's more.

Nicole [00:27:59]: So that's what I'm saying is men should hear this. Men stop. Like, men need to grow a pair and get a divorce and the relationship, rather than cheating. Like, let's be real. Like, that happens a lot.

John [00:28:12]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:12]: And then men tried to act like, oh, well, I didn't want to hurt anybody. That's like, that is. I mean, I. It must come from where he doesn't want to protect the woman anymore. But, like, you know, like, there's no world where I believe that men genuinely think that cheating on someone is not going to hurt that person.

John [00:28:35]: Yeah. I think it's just not considered.

Nicole [00:28:38]: Right. Which is up.

John [00:28:39]: Right. Well, but.

Nicole [00:28:40]: Sorry.

John [00:28:40]: But it's like if you're. If you don't feel considered, then you don't feel the need to consider. Right. Like, that's general. How.

Nicole [00:28:47]: But that's immature.

John [00:28:48]: It's immature. It's not correct. Right. I'm not saying that any of these things are correct. I'm just saying, like, again, you can, like, fight the way that things work and say they should be this way, which I will agree with you. Or you can look at the way that things actually work and then figure out how to operate within that.

Nicole [00:29:04]: I can look at the way things actually work. But the thing is that, like, this has to be talked about. Like, it can't be just like, well, this is how things work. Like, no, like, they work that way because we've allowed them to work this way. So, like, the cheating thing, like, being like, well, he's not considered. So he's not considering. Like, if you're not considering someone, then why would you not just get a divorce?

John [00:29:27]: I agree. That's fine. But. But the. But which is more compelling, those words to tell a man that, okay. Some men will listen, most will not. Right. Because they're going to do what they want to do. Or a woman that inspires that protective instinct within the man.

Nicole [00:29:44]: Right.

John [00:29:44]: That's the more point.

Nicole [00:29:46]: But also, like, I'm not just going to act like this is fine. This is how it is. Are you going to fight against it or not? Like, the issue actually is that this stuff though, is giving men a bad name and it is causing more problems for themselves. Like, it is. It's all connected. Like, I agree, like, women need to learn how to uplift a man and support a man.

John [00:30:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:08]: I'm not arguing that whatsoever. That's very important. And it's one of the biggest things here.

John [00:30:13]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:14]: Like you said, to combat against all this stuff that we're talking about. And it is the glimmer of hope that women have because they can be that woman. However, I am tired of men being like, this is how men are. This is how we're wired. And then they do crappy things and women get upset about them. Rightfully so. And so women don't want to deal with men. And then it just goes around in circles and then we're like, well, this is how men are. That's. That's why women don't want to deal with men.

John [00:30:42]: Oh, yeah, but that's like. But this is how women are and this is why men don't want to deal with women. And then you get into the whole thing where guys are mgtow and they're like, this is. This is how women are. Are all awol. All women are like that. Right. Like, this is like, it's the same cycle. So it can't. That can never be the solution.

Nicole [00:30:59]: But men don't care about love, so that doesn't really even matter.

John [00:31:02]: I didn't.

Nicole [00:31:03]: Men.

John [00:31:03]: No, no, I didn't say that men don't care about love.

Nicole [00:31:06]: What did you say? It was something along those lines.

John [00:31:07]: I said that was not the primary thing that men are missing from their life. That wasn't the. Like, it was the other pieces that I told you. Right. Like love also is part of it. That is true. But you know, they don't put as much investment into it as women does. As woman does. Well, because a man can feel like he has love and be with other women at the same time. A man can. A man can feel like that how a ton of men do.

Nicole [00:31:33]: Because I'm not saying that they don't, but how can you explain how. Because women don't understand this either.

John [00:31:38]: Yeah, yeah. This is a hard One for a woman to understand. I don't think it's even necessary for a woman to understand it. But, but in the sense that a man doesn't think like, of some woman that he has sex with necessarily of anything that just, he just had sex with her. So why. It doesn't affect his, in his mind, his relationship with the woman that he loves, because he doesn't love that woman.

Nicole [00:32:03]: How? Because he's entering another human being.

John [00:32:06]: It's just a physical biological process to him. He's just.

Nicole [00:32:09]: So men don't take sex seriously.

John [00:32:14]: Not enough do. Right. Like that. Like, you're correct. Like, that's probably the root of it. But that, but that's how psychologically that men think.

Nicole [00:32:24]: But men should take it seriously, even from a biological standpoint, because you can impregnate a woman.

John [00:32:30]: Yeah, yeah, I, I got that and I agree. But that's not what is going on from that, you know, you're asking the question and I'm, I'm telling you how it is. Right.

Nicole [00:32:39]: I'm not fighting against you. I'm just saying, though, that like, again, this is like an answer that you're just answering for the collective. I'm not coming at you. Yeah, yeah, but that's kind of a bullshit answer because if you don't care about sex, you have a sex problem. Like, I know men are biologically more sexual than women. They want to spread their seed. I get that. However, if you view, especially if you're in a relationship, if you view entering another woman as not that big of a deal, you probably have a sex problem. You're either addicted to sex or addicted to porn or, well, some other kind of stuff. Because if it's that nonchalant while you're in a relationship. Yeah, that's a problem.

John [00:33:24]: I, like, I, I, I kind of agree. I think. It's not like, I'm just saying, like, that's kind of like how men could think that way. Right. Like, it doesn't mean that, that they have to, like, have sex with every woman that they see. But I'm just saying that, but you're saying, like, sex addiction. Sex, Sex problem. But I do agree that in general, people take sex too lightly. In, in, in general. Right. Like, that's, that's true. And that contributes to that, that psychology.

Nicole [00:33:54]: Yeah. I mean, when I say sex addiction and things like that, I don't mean you have to have sex with everything, but I mean that, like, your relationship to sex is not.

John [00:34:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:04]: Healthy. Because the thing is biologically right. If you want to go straight biology, which men like to do. Every woman you enter.

John [00:34:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:15]: You should be okay with having a child with.

John [00:34:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:18]: And men don't think like that. So it's not from a biological point.

John [00:34:22]: Yeah, but no, biologically, men don't have to think like that from biology. They don't. Because they, because they can just leave.

Nicole [00:34:28]: They're not attached. But that's also.

John [00:34:30]: Women are attached to the child because they.

Nicole [00:34:32]: Because they.

John [00:34:33]: They birth a child. Exactly. They. They.

Nicole [00:34:35]: Yeah, but men should also be attached to their offspring.

John [00:34:38]: Should. But that's not this whole thing.

Nicole [00:34:42]: And I'm not saying you again, but this looks really bad.

John [00:34:47]: I got it.

Nicole [00:34:47]: Like, it's like, it's like I could.

John [00:34:49]: But I could get why we could do.

Nicole [00:34:51]: They're comparing me to bears because it's like a wild animal. It's like they're just dogs.

John [00:34:56]: We could do a whole episode with the exact reverse standpoint of all the stuff that. That, that are bad about women. And it would be. I mean, believe me, there's all the, the red pill stuff that's out there and the incel stuff and the black pill type of stuff that, that, that is. That has a ton of stuff against women that they could bring up all those arguments. There's no need to do it. But I'm just saying that, like, it's. It exists on both places, so it's

Nicole [00:35:23]: like saying it doesn't. But at the same time, though, like, this all started with a kind of red pill question. I'm not gonna lie.

John [00:35:31]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:35:32]: To try to make women look like they only care about money.

John [00:35:35]: No, no, not to. Not to do that. That's not the purpose of it.

Nicole [00:35:38]: You said majority of women would pick that choice.

John [00:35:40]: Right. That's just understanding the psychology. Like, what would women pick? I mean, that doesn't make.

Nicole [00:35:47]: That goes along with the agenda that women only care about status and women.

John [00:35:53]: No, women don't only care about status and money. Women's highest attraction trigger is status. Women are more attracted to status than any other thing.

Nicole [00:36:05]: But.

John [00:36:06]: Okay, that's not a good or bad thing. It is a thing.

Nicole [00:36:09]: But then you're saying that they would still stay with someone with status that would cheat on them multiple times.

John [00:36:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:16]: So over someone that doesn't have status, but it's loyal.

John [00:36:20]: These are just understandings of things. Like the interpretation of the, like right or wrong, or this is bad or this is good is best left out of the conversation because it doesn't help.

Nicole [00:36:32]: Well, it's not good.

John [00:36:33]: Well, I, I know it's not good. But like, like the, the point is like, what. What do people do?

Nicole [00:36:38]: Questions like that are not good. Like, I think that's the biggest problem is that our whole episode was based on this question. That also you had to like, hyper makes specific on this side, right? But then this side was a little bit more open. But then, honestly, in the middle is where most people would land, where they would take some guy that doesn't make the most money but is faithful. You know what I mean?

John [00:36:59]: Okay, but the thing is, it's understanding the basic psychology of. Of humans in relationships, right? And in, in. In relation to each other that I think is important to understand. Right. So.

Nicole [00:37:11]: Which I think we could have done a better job. I think that's phrasing.

John [00:37:15]: No, that's like, It's a good question. It's like, men should know this. They should know this about women. They shouldn't judge women because of it. They should just understand it. Just like if I was going fishing, right? I should know that this fish eats worms and this fish goes for whatever, live bait or a jig or whatever. I should know. I'm not judging the fish, but I should know what will attract the fish,

Nicole [00:37:42]: which I think that's fine in the way of like trying to convince men to have more status, you know, motivate them.

John [00:37:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:52]: But I am concerned that it's been attached to. A woman will stay with you if you cheat. It doesn't matter. That's what I'm concerned about. And I know you've said that it's not okay.

John [00:38:02]: Not okay.

Nicole [00:38:03]: However, you also said with the proposing the question that a woman will stay with a man who cheats.

John [00:38:09]: And the reason why that's very important is because that's more for women to understand this about themselves is to see that. To see that women do this and to actively counter that in themselves. Because a woman will feel a stronger pull of attraction to a man that cheats on her because he will have reduced her. Will have reduced her validation and increase his status.

Nicole [00:38:35]: So you set it so that women would leave men that cheat on them.

John [00:38:38]: You understand? You have to understand it. Because all women, when they hear that, they're like, I would not. I would not be more attracted to a man that cheats on me. But that's not true, because you will be. However, that doesn't mean you should stay with him. There's two different things here. You should recognize the fact, if you understand that this is what will happen to you. This is how your brain is wired, that when a Man cheats on you, it will make you feel invalidated and desperate for his approval and validation. And then you'll now think that he's maybe better than you in some way because he's cheating. He must be higher status again psychologically, subconsciously. If you understand that about your own biology, then instead of denying it, you'll understand that and then you can make a choice. But if you don't understand that, then the chances of you thinking that this guy's unique or this is an exceptional circumstance or this is why I'm doing this is much higher and you'll backwards justify it. But when you understand it and you're like, hey, like, this is going to cause me, like, if the situation happens, this is how I would be drawn. You can counteract it. When you don't understand it, you backwards rationalize and justify. You're like, this is an exception. Oh, this is why this, in this case that I, that I am going to stay with this guy.

Nicole [00:39:50]: I mean, I hear you and I think that some people. Yes. What you said is true. However, I got cheated on at 21, 22 years old.

John [00:39:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:00]: And I wanted nothing to do with him.

John [00:40:01]: But you already.

Nicole [00:40:02]: I was not attracted to him anymore.

John [00:40:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:05]: At whatsoever.

John [00:40:06]: Where was the relationship already at that point, though?

Nicole [00:40:09]: Not good.

John [00:40:09]: Right. And did you already think that he was very. At that point in the relationship before you found out that he cheated on you, did you think of him as a really great guy, like high status, like, this is a super valuable guy I've got here?

Nicole [00:40:24]: No.

John [00:40:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:25]: But even if you cheated on me, I would not want anything to do with you.

John [00:40:28]: No. Of course you'd be very upset though it like. Well, rightly so. Yeah, obviously. Right.

Nicole [00:40:33]: Like, but that doesn't mean I'd be like craving your validation.

John [00:40:37]: I mean, you, to some degree, you would probably like psychologically. Would you stay? No, absolutely not.

Nicole [00:40:42]: I wouldn't. Because my disdain for you.

John [00:40:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:45]: Would be, Would overpower the validation that you think that I would need from you.

John [00:40:51]: Yeah. And again, we never have to experience that situation, so you never have to.

Nicole [00:40:55]: But I agree with you that some women do behave that way. I'm not saying that that's the case. And I, I appreciate you trying to help women recognize that and so that they won't do that no matter how high value or how much money a man makes. Because I agree with you that some men or some women who are with successful men let them get away with things that they should not get away with. And really that's just you teaching that man how to treat you. So if you stay with a man that cheats on you just because he has money or he's high value, you're teaching him that he can continue to do that to you and that's why he continues to do that to you.

John [00:41:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:41:38]: But like, that's not going to be. Again, everyone's experience. And if you have self respect.

John [00:41:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:41:45]: But you're right that like, if you already have low self respect because everybody's going to be insecure. And obviously if you're really, really, really insecure, you probably don't have the highest level of self respect for yourself.

John [00:41:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:59]: Or if you're insecure because you value outside validation to make yourself feel better. Yes. That man will tear you apart because like you said, now he's up here and now you're chasing his validation. And you're not ever really going to be on the same level because he did something that cannot really be fixed.

John [00:42:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:42:21]: Not really if you're in that state.

John [00:42:23]: Exactly. So.

Nicole [00:42:25]: Yeah, but I am worried, like I said, that men will hear this and, you know, especially successful people will be like, I can do whatever I want.

John [00:42:33]: Yeah, you can do dark psychology if you want to, but it's probably not a good idea. It's not good for your soul. No, it's not.

Nicole [00:42:40]: It's not gonna take it from someone who knows.

John [00:42:43]: Yeah, well, I wasn't trying to do dark psychology.

Nicole [00:42:46]: No, but, but I understand you were

John [00:42:48]: doing D. Yeah, okay, but I understand it. Right. And, and like, the thing is about it is that also it's not going to create a true fulfillment in life. It's not going to create the relationship that you want. It's not going to give you those things. You know, a woman may stay with you because you cheated on her, but you're going to have, you're not going to have a real relationship in that case, because what's driving her is not going to be her love for you is going to be her love for money. Well, her, her need for the validation.

Nicole [00:43:21]: Right.

John [00:43:21]: Her like, drive to like, get back what you've taken from her, which she'll never get. Right. But that's what, where it comes from. It's like, well, like, why did he cheat on me? Am I not attractive enough? Is there other women? Like, is it like, you know, am I not valuable enough? Can I never find a man like this again? Like, these are the things that you know that are like, that she's trying to get back from that man. Is that validation of those Things not because she actually loves the man or wants the man at that point. She wants what the man represents. That's why the psychology of it.

Nicole [00:43:52]: And are men okay with that? Are men okay with being the money? Like, not even about him? I guess that's my, My question too, is that, do men not care that they're being used?

John [00:44:04]: Here's the real thing about this, and this is what I warned one of my coaching clients where this situation did occur. I was like, okay, so if she takes you back after you've cheated on her multiple times, you know what this means, right? You can never, ever, ever, ever, ever give her the validation. You can never have a real relationship with her because as soon as she's comfortable, she's gone or she'll tell you she's gone. You understand What I'm saying is that like. Because once you've created that scenario, right? And I'm not saying, like, don't get it twisted to what I'm saying in the sense that. I'm not saying that, okay, now treat this woman poorly so that she'll stay with you. I'm saying that you can never actually have a real relationship at this point because of what has occurred. The reason why she's staying with you, the reason why she's still seeking your validation is because she doesn't have it. And the moment she has it, the moment you show her, like, really show up for her and really become that great guy to her and be a great boyfriend to her, she'll be gone

Nicole [00:45:14]: because she got what she came for.

John [00:45:16]: That's what she. Exactly. So you never want to create that

Nicole [00:45:18]: which he created, though he created that

John [00:45:20]: drive for, which is the same thing where even just with guys picking up girls, right? If you pick up a girl by tearing down her esteem, by causing her to become invalidate, which you can do that. It's a dark psychology, sure. But then if you ever give her that, she will lose attraction for you because the attraction is based on what you've taken away, not what you've added. There's additive attraction and there's subtractive attraction. Right?

Nicole [00:45:46]: And subtractive attraction is never sustainable.

John [00:45:49]: Yeah. Because you're always in the negative. You have to maintain the negative.

Nicole [00:45:52]: Right.

John [00:45:53]: It's just like fear based. Like if a woman stays with you, like if you constantly make her afraid that you're going to cheat on her and that's why she stays with you, then the moment you give her security, she's not gonna be attracted to you anymore because it was all a Negative attraction.

Nicole [00:46:08]: Yeah, that's true.

John [00:46:10]: So you can't ever do that.

Nicole [00:46:12]: Yeah, no, not smart.

John [00:46:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:15]: But I do think the question is very black and white. And I do think that women value faithfulness, especially because it's so rare. And you proved that with what you said. You know what I mean? But you also told women how to, what the best way is to get faithfulness from a man. And that's being his support and his rocket fuel and lifting him up and supporting him, which women do need to learn to do that. But I feel a little better. I mean, I feel good because I found you.

John [00:46:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:53]: But I feel a little better for society. But I really hate on both sides, honestly. But I really hate the whole, like that's just how things are because we have allowed things to get so messed up.

John [00:47:05]: I like to understand the reality of

Nicole [00:47:09]: what it is right now.

John [00:47:10]: And I think, but not even that, but just like what truly drives people, right? Like the carnal nature of human desire. And then I'm not saying that it's correct, but I like to understand what it is because I feel like if you understand what it is like as a man, if you understand, okay, a woman 99 out of 100 times is going to pick a successful, high status guy that has money regardless of his faithfulness, even though women will say that faithfulness is the most important thing, it doesn't prove out to be true. Like, I'd rather understand that and know that than not know that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want to judge that. I don't care. I'm not judging any of these things. It's fine. This is what it is. I just want to know what it is and then operate in that environment. But I don't want to like deny myself from the reality because I don't like the reality. Whatever the harsh truths of reality are, I want to know them all. And then I want to play the game knowing those things.

Nicole [00:48:12]: But see, I think my perspective is I would take faithfulness almost over everything. And even if that's not realistic, I'd rather be alone.

John [00:48:23]: Sure. Which is fine. Which is fine.

Nicole [00:48:24]: And I, I understand you want to come from a biological standpoint. Again, men love to like come from these sort of angles.

John [00:48:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:33]: However, and maybe it's because I'm a woman, I don't think that. And this is maybe the woo woo in me, but I think we all come from a place of love. And men try to use their biology as an excuse for their behaviors, which I'm not saying that they don't drive men. I'm not saying that biologically we're not driven by these things. But I think that spiritually love is the biggest driver of all these things. And to act like we're just robots in a meat suit.

John [00:49:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:07]: That are gonna do what we're programmed to do is not realistic. Whereas like, like we're gonna do what our souls are here to do, which is love people. And like even though men tried to like throw that away with like, you know, they acting like they don't really want love, like the incel people or whatever.

John [00:49:27]: Exactly. It's not true.

Nicole [00:49:28]: I think that men want love as much as women do.

John [00:49:30]: Sure.

Nicole [00:49:31]: I think that they are weaker minded because they have more temptations biologically. But I think that if you conquer those things, that's even more powerful than what women can understand because we don't have besides like maybe the control thing, like this huge primal desire.

John [00:49:59]: Yeah. There's a different type of thing that goes on with a lot of. Here's. Let me give you one instance of it. This is probably the most valuable thing that a man can learn about women. Women say a thing, but that's not what they do. They say they want a man that's like this. That's not what they actually do. The most of the things that women say are not accurate. It's what they, they do something other than what they say. Now I'm not blaming women for.

Nicole [00:50:27]: I'm so hurtful. You're saying that after what I just said. So it seems like you're implying that.

John [00:50:33]: No, I'm not saying.

Nicole [00:50:34]: I'm saying something that I want and you're implying that. I don't mean that.

John [00:50:38]: I'm not saying you in particular but

Nicole [00:50:40]: how can you say that women say that and then you say I don't.

John [00:50:43]: Women will always will swear up and down that they want a nice guy. Women will swear up and down that they would pick a guy that is more that is faithful and that they would never stay with the guy that cheats on them. Women swear up and down all of these different things that the guy that status are like, you definitely don't have to worry about this guy. I'm not attracted to this guy. Women will say all these things. It's not accurate. Now it's not purposely deceptive either.

Nicole [00:51:08]: It's just that men do the same thing.

John [00:51:11]: Well no, men don't. Men, men are more straightforward.

Nicole [00:51:14]: They say yeah, don't worry about that girl. And then they're banging her they're full blown banging sometimes.

John [00:51:19]: Sometimes that might be the case. That's it. But I'm saying in general that women will say something, but it's not accurate. But the reason why that happens is because it's their own mechanism of self survival, of protection. Like a separation between their cognitive psychology and understanding what their instinctual behavior is. If a woman understood what her instinctual behavior is, it would not be good for her. It would actually cause her to make wrong choices because she has a bigger heart and is more compassionate. Her ruthlessness has to be hidden by her psychology. So she doesn't understand her own ruthlessness. That's not the case for men. But it's because men don't have to have that survival mechanism. Men aren't wired in that way. But that is why there's a disconnect between what a woman says and what she actually does. And men have to understand that about women. Now again, I'm not saying that what

Nicole [00:52:16]: you're saying is not. I don't really understand what you're saying.

John [00:52:19]: What I'm saying is that, that if a woman understood how ruthless she actually

Nicole [00:52:24]: is, I think women do know that.

John [00:52:26]: They don't know it. They don't know to the degree of their biology how much it drives them and their choices in life. If a woman did know that, then it would prevent that biology from protecting her. That biology is in place for important reasons. To create that protection for her survival instinct. To make sure that she weeds out the nice guys. Right? Like her compassion would overrule from a psychological perspective if she understood her biology. So it's better that women don't understand their biology and they're self protected by their brain from understanding their own actual reasons why they're doing things.

Nicole [00:53:02]: No, I think they do understand. I think as women you do understand that you do have to have boundaries. Again, it's like the self respect. Yeah, but I'm not talking about there's a reason. Well then what are you talking about? Because it's still hard to understand.

John [00:53:14]: I'm talking about things like why a woman wants a man that cheats on her. Why a woman would say that she wants a nice guy but she doesn't want a nice guy. Like why, like the, the, these, these instinctual, like why a woman will chase after a man that has money or status even though like psychologically she doesn't think that that's what she actually wants. But then it's like oh, but this guy is super attractive to me. Right. Like, but there's some Reason, some backwards justification as to why this guy is attractive. And it doesn't have to do with his money. No, he's a really good guy. Right.

Nicole [00:53:49]: So I think they don't know how to sort through those things.

John [00:53:53]: No, there's a protection, a literal protection in a woman's brain that prevents her from being able to connect those two pieces together in majority of cases. I'm not saying that it can't be overcome and understood, but for the. For the most part, it's better that it's there.

Nicole [00:54:10]: I mean, I think that it's an ignorance thing, because I think that if you're attracted to a man that cheats on you, like you said, yes. There is this biological thing in you, or whatever you want to call it, instinctual. That's like, okay, he has options, so he's valuable. But if you're only choosing that man or you're choosing to stay with that man because of that, that is not. That's not correct either. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes like you have to collect that knowledge. You have to realize, okay, like, this man has options. That means that women pursue him. So there's probably something good about him.

John [00:54:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:54:49]: You make a mental note of that. But if he's cheating on me with multiple women, that's not something that I want in my partner. That's not sustainable. That's not good. But if there's a woman that's just going for a man because he has options.

John [00:55:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:55:04]: She is discrediting the other half of that equation.

John [00:55:08]: Right, but.

Nicole [00:55:09]: So that's like a lower level of consciousness is what I'm saying.

John [00:55:12]: She doesn't understand. That's what she's doing. That's what I'm saying. Is that like. Like that, like it's not.

Nicole [00:55:16]: Then they're off. They're operating at a lower level of consciousness.

John [00:55:19]: Perhaps. Perhaps. Yeah, that's.

Nicole [00:55:21]: I mean, I think that that's what

John [00:55:22]: it is, but that's what a majority is. That's what.

Nicole [00:55:24]: Well, that's the majority of majority of people.

John [00:55:26]: Exactly. So that's what I'm saying, is that. So that it's like. It's just understanding that a woman will swear up and down and say that she would pick the poor man that is faithful. But that's not true. That's not what reality proves. That's not what. Even though she might say that, you better get your money up, you better get your status up, you better get your shit up. You know, I'm saying. I'm not saying cheat, but so you could cheat. No, but I'm not, I'm not saying,

Nicole [00:55:50]: I'm not saying do that can they would.

John [00:55:52]: I'm not saying do that part of it, but I am saying have options. Get that. Be that guy. Like it doesn't matter. Like that's, that's the thing is that

Nicole [00:56:01]: I think men should have options because I think as a woman, you can make a better choice of a man if he has options. Yeah, like I'm not saying that. That's not a bad thing.

John [00:56:09]: It's true.

Nicole [00:56:10]: But if you don't know, again, it's all about men. A lot of men do not have self control. They do not have self discipline. And so a man who has a lot of options but has self discipline can be a man. Like you can be a man that we're talking about that is a needle in a haystack. But a man who doesn't will just continue, will just be at the bar for 10 years waiting for a woman or taking some home occasionally, but never actually feeling love or satisfaction. So like, it does boil down to like women's lower level of consciousness, I guess, not being aware of the decisions that they're making, even though they make some sense, but not having the full equation and not making a proper decision.

John [00:57:00]: Let me give you one, one final example that, that will kind of paint the picture, right? So, and as to why this exists, so let's say that you ask a woman, what are you looking for in a man? Like what, what man are you looking for? A woman says all these things, right? So then Mr. Imposter Guy says, oh, okay, and just pretends to be all those things. Men do that and they don't succeed, right? Eventually. Because the woman, what she said that she wants isn't what she actually wants because she doesn't know, because her actions will be different. That's why that psychology exists. It's a protection mechanism for women by women in their own psychology that prevents them from actually being able to communicate the things that they actually want to actually even understand about themselves what is actually attracting them. They think they know at a logical level, but the reason why that cannot be nature has played it out this way is because of mimickers, right? Even in the animal kingdom, there's birds that mimic other birds in order to mate with the bird, and they pretend to be the thing. And so in those species of birds, the female bird has a counter mechanism to, to figure out if this guy's an imposter, right? So women's entire sexual selection is based on Solving a mystery. This is why women like murder mysteries and like mysteries is because they are very good sleuths. They can figure out if you're full of shit. Right. And so at the same time, they don't betray their hand. They don't. Even though a woman might say she's looking for these things in a man, that's not what's actually attracting her. She says that thing. The guy tries to duplicate that thing. It's not the. It's not the key that unlocks the. The door. You see what I'm saying? That's why that exists.

Nicole [00:58:43]: Okay, well then do you think men get what they want when they say what they want in a partner?

John [00:58:50]: They just. Or want a hot woman.

Nicole [00:58:53]: Right, But I think so.

John [00:58:55]: And that's exactly what they want. That's exactly what they say. That's exactly what they want.

Nicole [00:58:59]: Yeah, but eventually all women become unhot. But that's what they get older.

John [00:59:02]: If you say what attract. Again, we're saying what is attractive. Women say what they think is attractive to them. It's not what's attractive to them. Men say what they think is attractive to them. A hot woman. That is what's attractive to them. Men don't have to play that game because they don't have to watch out for women mimicking what they think is attractive to men. Women aren't trying to pretend to be some woman that they're not in order to attract a man in general.

Nicole [00:59:28]: Okay, but I also think that women.

John [00:59:32]: Well, actually the women do they dress up?

Nicole [00:59:35]: Makeup is true. But Yeah. I also think that a woman could give you a list. Yeah, but she knows that it's more than just checking these boxes off. You're still thinking like a man. You think that women are lying?

John [00:59:48]: No, no, I don't think they're lying.

Nicole [00:59:50]: Or you think they don't know what they want. Right, but the thing is, you actually said what is actually true and that women are trying to uncover the mystery. They do want these things, but there are little tiny things in between that she can't tell you what she wants.

John [01:00:05]: Right.

Nicole [01:00:05]: Because you have to act so she can see.

John [01:00:09]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:00:09]: So she's not giving you the full list. It's not because she's leading you on or she doesn't know what she wants.

John [01:00:15]: She doesn't know the fullest.

Nicole [01:00:16]: No, she does know the full list, but she has to see your actions. So then when you do try to mimic these things to try to be the nice guy, she's got to see that your actions actually counteract you think

John [01:00:26]: that's happening at a cycle, at a, at a logical level that let me hold back this clue. And then there's no, it's all happening at a subconscious level. That's why it's, it's, it's mask. That's. There's the protection built into the biology is that it has to happen at the subconscious.

Nicole [01:00:40]: I mean, I think that's why we mentioned. So like I'm saying, you can't be aware. No. If someone said what do you want in a man? And I'm like, you know, gentlemen and successful and tall and whatever. So.

John [01:00:56]: Yeah, but that might not be what you're attracted to. You come up with a list of what you want.

Nicole [01:01:02]: I'm sitting across from those things. I'm obviously attracted to them.

John [01:01:05]: Yeah, but there's other things that you won't be able to uncover in your own self esteem.

Nicole [01:01:11]: And so he thinks gentlemen. But maybe he's acting like a nice guy. And I'm like, no, like a gentleman is someone that stands up.

John [01:01:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:18]: Or successful. And it's a guy that just got handed a trust fund and doesn't actually have any ambition or anything. Like that's what I'm saying that women are trying to suss out. It doesn't mean that those things aren't true.

John [01:01:31]: Yeah, but it's at a deeper level. It's at a deeper level, there is a masking of, of, of understanding your own psychology that's built into your biology.

Nicole [01:01:41]: I mean, I just think it's weird that you act like it's women that do this and that men don't do anything.

John [01:01:49]: It's just a masking of, of the, of the understanding of, of their drives. That's how it is. Like it is always a mystery. Women will always be a mystery to themselves, to men.

Nicole [01:01:59]: I don't think so.

John [01:02:00]: It is, it's true.

Nicole [01:02:01]: I think especially after these two episodes that men are actually the ones that don't make any sense because they'll love you and then they'll go stick their. You know what, and someone else too. That makes sense. Makes zero sense. So sitting here acting like women don't make sense is not fair because a lot of men's actions don't make sense. Like right, you love someone from the outside. You don't. And you again, you agreed with me.

John [01:02:24]: Right.

Nicole [01:02:25]: You know, if you go stick for sure thing in someone else.

John [01:02:29]: Right.

Nicole [01:02:30]: That's gonna hurt the person you supposedly love. So it doesn't matter if it means nothing to you. You know, it means Something to them.

John [01:02:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:38]: And you're. You're just doing it anyway. So the thing is, like, it's not fair to sit here and act like women are this mystery when honestly men are just as much of a mystery, but in a more simplified. What's the word I'm looking for? Like caveman, like, way. Like a simplified, like, biologically, like, like. Yeah, but it's still a mystery. It's still.

John [01:03:03]: But the difference. The difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is. What I'm saying is neutral. I don't care. I don't care that women are like that. It doesn't bother me at all. I don't consider it to be a bad or good thing. It just is what it is. Whereas yours is charged to the negative. So that's what I'm saying is a difference, is that. I'm just saying, calling it as it is. But I don't have any. I don't have any pony in the pony show.

Nicole [01:03:26]: I mean, I think it's. I agree with what you're saying, but I'm charged about it because you are saying, just in a calm way.

John [01:03:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:35]: That women are more complicated. But that's not true. Like, they're just complicated in different ways.

John [01:03:43]: No, it's just hidden. Their motives are hidden even to themselves. That's a better way of saying that. Like. Like their. Their actual drives are hidden even to themselves.

Nicole [01:03:53]: Okay.

John [01:03:55]: Which is fine. That's not. It's neither here nor there. It's just something to understand, to know. Right. Because.

Nicole [01:04:02]: And men's drives are just out in the open because they just have sex with everything.

John [01:04:06]: Yeah, they're.

Nicole [01:04:07]: But that doesn't make one or the other better. It doesn't make them both complicated.

John [01:04:10]: Exactly. It doesn't make.

Nicole [01:04:11]: But you've been standing on this. Like, women are so mysterious and men aren't like, yes, they like, show their cards, but that doesn't mean that what they logically do makes sense at all.

John [01:04:21]: No, no. Yeah. There's a difference between mysterious and making sense. Mysterious is unknown mechanism, doesn't know how. What you give this input, you don't know what the output is going to be. Not making sense means. Could also mean stupid. It could also mean stupid. Right? Like not making sense, saying you love

Nicole [01:04:38]: somebody and doing something like that.

John [01:04:40]: Stupid behavior. Men are more inclined to stupid behavior. I agree with that.

Nicole [01:04:43]: Okay. I'd rather be mysterious than stupid, that's for sure.

John [01:04:46]: Men are much more inclined to stupid behavior. Women, mysterious don't know what like, they don't even know.

Nicole [01:04:51]: But they're still complicated.

John [01:04:52]: Sure, sure. For sure.

Nicole [01:04:53]: In their own different ways they're complicated.

John [01:04:54]: But. But yeah, it's stupid behavior because like what you're just. What you're describing that men do it from a logical perspective is to behavior like it's going to have.

Nicole [01:05:03]: Right.

John [01:05:03]: It's going to have, it's going to have long term consequences and they don't think about that. Yeah, because men think short term.

Nicole [01:05:09]: Again, I already talked about this.

John [01:05:12]: Because if you're a man, right, like you could die, but go spread your seed before you die. Right. If you're a woman, you're thinking security, I need to be able to stay along alive long enough to raise my genetics and keep them safe for. Until they get old enough to defend themselves. Man is just like, okay, like it doesn't.

Nicole [01:05:30]: I'm here, I'm not kind of dumb. I'm not gonna lie.

John [01:05:32]: I'm gonna get killed. Like it doesn't matter.

Nicole [01:05:34]: Without going on a tangent from if you're about to die, why do you want to go spread your seed? You're going to be dead because you're not going to take care of the kids anyway.

John [01:05:41]: It's the biology of the genetics. Like the more offspring you have, the

Nicole [01:05:44]: higher still doesn't make sense.

John [01:05:46]: It's your, your. It's the natural selection genetics that you're

Nicole [01:05:49]: not going to be taken care of because you died. And all these women are going to be raising your kids. Which women are so mysterious but you're going to leave them with your kids.

John [01:05:57]: Biology is not logical. It's just like what survives. Like what again has the highest chance of passing on the genes is where

Nicole [01:06:06]: I think of people less focused on biology and more focused on loving each other. Everything would be a lot better.

John [01:06:12]: Like I said, I just want to

Nicole [01:06:14]: understand what actually men love talking about biology.

John [01:06:18]: I just want to understand what.

Nicole [01:06:19]: Actually women don't typically sit around and explain everything in their life with biology. We actually don't at all. We're more spiritual in general. We're more like emotional. Like we don't explain things logically.

John [01:06:32]: I mean I, I explained it in biology.

Nicole [01:06:35]: No, but I do think men do that. It's. I guess it goes with the statistic thing. Men love a good statistic. Yeah, but it's funny because exactly like what you just said, they'll use biology, statistics, these things that they prove as facts. Yeah, but then they do dumb things which are not smart at all. Not logical, that are short term.

John [01:06:57]: Short term plays is how I would describe them versus long term plays, which

Nicole [01:07:01]: is also not very.

John [01:07:03]: Women are playing the long game, men

Nicole [01:07:04]: are playing the short game biologically.

John [01:07:08]: Right.

Nicole [01:07:08]: If you're playing the short term game, you probably are gonna die soon.

John [01:07:11]: Exactly. That's where it's driven from. That's why men have. Have short term thinking versus women have long term thinking. Women have to bear.

Nicole [01:07:19]: Men should listen to women more so they can live longer.

John [01:07:22]: A man has sex with a woman, Right. The worst that he can get is a venereal disease. Right. Woman has sex with a man, she could have a child that she has to carry for nine months and that could cause her to not survive because there's not enough food. Now she has to take care of this obligation.

Nicole [01:07:39]: So give birth.

John [01:07:40]: Give birth. All kinds of complications and things. Right. So men biologically wired, short term thinking, especially when it comes to sex. Women are biologically wired, long term thinking, especially when it comes to sex.

Nicole [01:07:50]: You know, I think the word menace came from men.

John [01:07:54]: Men.

Nicole [01:07:56]: That's what I've learned from this. Yeah, I see where the word menace came from. Menace to society.

John [01:08:04]: All right, we should probably wrap this up because. Yeah, we're over. How did the second episode be longer than the first one? I thought this was going to be a short one because we went on rabbit trails.

Nicole [01:08:12]: Yeah, but it's true. Okay, well, comment. If you think men are a menace, the men are gonna be mad in the comment section.

John [01:08:22]: That's okay. Women will be mad too, because they'll say that. That I'm saying that they don't understand their own selves. Which is fine.

Nicole [01:08:29]: I mean, I did. I just don't like when men say that. And then they act like men are just so easy to understand. Because you're not. That's my only point.

John [01:08:37]: I mean, I can predict a man's actions pretty accurately.

Nicole [01:08:42]: Yeah, but that doesn't mean that they. Like just because you can predict them doesn't mean that they make sense. Does that make sense?

John [01:08:48]: Yeah, they make sense from a short term thinking a lot of times. Not from long.

Nicole [01:08:52]: Like a dumb thinking. A dumb short term thinking.

John [01:08:55]: Sure. I'll give you that.

Nicole [01:08:56]: Okay. All mistakes that men make, are they not dumb? Because I know that you've talked to plenty of men.

John [01:09:02]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [01:09:03]: That have done really dumb things. So you can't even sit here and be like, they're not dumb choices.

John [01:09:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:10]: Most of the time when men don't think long term or try to think long term.

John [01:09:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:14]: It's not a good choice. It's dumb choice.

John [01:09:16]: That's true. I agree. That's 100. Correct. Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:19]: Which is part of their biology. They're like, singular focus. They're like, you know, they don't think very far ahead. You got to fight against that.

John [01:09:25]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:09:26]: You know?

John [01:09:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:29]: I don't know. Okay, okay, I. I don't hate men, but I'm obviously a little. A little perturbed.

John [01:09:40]: You just got to be neutral. You've got to be neutral. I can't. This is what it is. It's okay that it is what it is.

Nicole [01:09:46]: Just like, Joe, I just don't want it to perpetuate like.

John [01:09:49]: I know, but.

Nicole [01:09:50]: And again, we've had plenty of episodes that I've talked about men doing better because I do believe that when men do better, society in general does better. And, yeah, men are the leaders of relationship. If they're doing these dumb things that you're talking about.

John [01:10:06]: Right.

Nicole [01:10:06]: Relationships are going to be shit. And that's why we're here. And so that's why I'm very charged about this, is because I don't want it to just be, oh, this is how it is. That's too nonchalant. That's too, like, dangerous to relationships for me to sit here and just act like that's just how men are. That's just how women are.

John [01:10:25]: No, there's just.

Nicole [01:10:26]: Because it's not good either that women are not learning how to support a man.

John [01:10:29]: Right.

Nicole [01:10:30]: It's just as bad.

John [01:10:31]: You just have to understand what. What it is.

Nicole [01:10:34]: I can understand.

John [01:10:35]: It doesn't mean that it's like, that's how it should be. But then the key to change is first understanding. And so it's like, you have to have a base understanding, and then you can decide what you're going to do based on that, but you can't decide

Nicole [01:10:47]: what's going on, which I do understand, but I don't think it's good. Okay, that's my stance.

John [01:10:54]: All right.

Nicole [01:10:55]: And John's neutral. Like Switzerland.

John [01:10:57]: Yeah, like Switzerland. I'm Switzerland. But I have fondue, so I like fondue. That's how you get the women with fondue.

Nicole [01:11:06]: That's true. We love good cheese.

John [01:11:10]: All right, that's it for this week. Follow us@betterthanperfectpod.com or send us an email@betterthenperfectpodcastmail.com. leave a review.

Nicole [01:11:19]: Yes.

John [01:11:20]: We haven't checked reviews in a long time. I don't know. We'll see. But we'll see you next time.

Nicole [01:11:24]: Bye.

Nicole [00:00:00]: I am not trying to blame all men, but at the same time, the puzzle pieces are connecting here. Like why men want younger women, why they want a virgin, they want a woman that other men have not tainted, but yet other men do not hold their fellow men to the standard to not fuck women up and they think cheating is fine. Like, they're like, oh, well, if a guy's rich and he has status and women want him, that's a good thing. Men do cheat. Statistically more for sure.

John [00:00:26]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, because if a man can cheat, he will cheat. That is the default. Now, that doesn't mean that's every man, but that's a default. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to Better Than Perfect podcast where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow each other equals one better than perfect relationship. And today I forgot the. The. What are you talking about?

Nicole [00:01:03]: The Better than Perfect podcast.

John [00:01:04]: Oh, I just said better than Perfect podcast. I'm just shortening it. I'm just going to go BTP from now on. Welcome to btp.

Nicole [00:01:12]: I wonder how many people would not know what that means.

John [00:01:15]: That's. Yeah. Or what. What other acronym work? Titty Pandas.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Wow, now you just made the video already get blocked. Thanks, John.

John [00:01:31]: You're welcome. So today we are going to resurrect the age old debate. I don't know if it's an age. I guess it's an age old debate of would a woman prefer a man who is honest but broke versus rich but cheat, cheater or liar? Yeah, no, cheater. Cheater. Like, okay, honest.

Nicole [00:01:58]: Well, because, like, that's not the, like, opposite. Well, I mean, cheating is lying.

John [00:02:04]: Okay, fine, fine. Poor guy who's honest, who's faithful. Rich guy who's cheater.

Nicole [00:02:14]: Well, you already know my answer and it contradicts your answer.

John [00:02:18]: Well, I don't know.

Nicole [00:02:19]: Do you want me to say it out loud?

John [00:02:20]: I mean, what's your answer? What do you think is. What do you think women would do? Not what you would do. What would women do? Women.

Nicole [00:02:27]: I want to believe that women are like me.

John [00:02:33]: Huh. But not what you want to believe. I mean, you can believe it if you want. I don't want to.

Nicole [00:02:40]: I do believe, okay, that a woman with true intentions would choose a poor man who is loyal.

John [00:02:56]: Okay.

Nicole [00:02:58]: Than a rich man that cheats. Because the thing is, being broke can change someone's character. Normally does not change. Normally. Right again, that can change as well too. But it's easier to get to go from broke to not broke than it is to take someone with bad character and improve their character.

John [00:03:21]: Yeah, but, but broke is, are usually broke, right? Like, let's say that, I mean there's

Nicole [00:03:26]: some people that have been broke.

John [00:03:27]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:03:28]: Become not broke.

John [00:03:29]: But like when, when we, when I say broke, I guess like what I'm talking about is broke broke mindset. Right.

Nicole [00:03:36]: Like, but see, broke dog mindset. Not fair to like hyper classify. Well, like because you're, you're trying to make it super severe then like the guy has to be a billionaire then or something. Like not just like rich guy. Like you can't go. No, this is a broke guy who never wants to make money.

John [00:03:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:57]: And he's faithful. And then be like any rich guy and he cheats though. You know what I mean? Like, you can't make it hyper specific.

John [00:04:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:05]: But let's just assume that the other

John [00:04:08]: that broke guys, that they're like, there's a difference between someone who has ambition, who is like, he's like, he's building his tech startup or he's like going to medical school, but he's now right. In an intern or whatever. He's like going to medical school and he doesn't have his degree and he's like not making any money versus, you know, I'm like a broke loser that's always like going to be a broke loser. You get what I'm saying? Like there's a difference between that. So I'm saying more of that.

Nicole [00:04:40]: I guess it's like not very realistic because there are plenty guys that are not broke but they maybe have like a lower income job.

John [00:04:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:52]: That are faithful.

John [00:04:53]: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Lower income.

Nicole [00:04:55]: You're making it either very severe. The guy has to be a broke loser. Using your words.

John [00:05:00]: Yeah. Or.

Nicole [00:05:01]: Or rich and cheater. Like I think if I'm being honest now that you're making it so black and white.

John [00:05:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:08]: A woman, women would choose to be single like they are now. They would choose neither man.

John [00:05:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:13]: Because if she can make money.

John [00:05:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:16]: But she has to choose a broke guy who's always going to be broke but he doesn't cheat on her.

John [00:05:21]: Yeah, right. There we go. Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:22]: She can choose a rich guy and he's going to cheat on her.

John [00:05:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:27]: I think that women would rather be single.

John [00:05:30]: That women would rather be single. Okay.

Nicole [00:05:32]: I don't think she would choose either of them. So if you're gonna make it so black and white.

John [00:05:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:36]: That's Where I'm gonna lay.

John [00:05:37]: What if she has to choose, though? Like, what if she has to? Well, yeah. What do you think women would choose? Like, if they have to choose? This is the debate.

Nicole [00:05:48]: You're, like, asking me what women would choose without me being able to give you my answer.

John [00:05:53]: Oh, no, give your answer. Yeah, give your answer. Go ahead.

Nicole [00:05:55]: I would choose a broke person that's loyal. Right.

John [00:05:58]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:59]: Because I think that the integrity of a person matters. And yes, it's not attractive, right, that a man is broke, but it's attractive that he's loyal.

John [00:06:10]: Right?

Nicole [00:06:10]: And it's that, again, a broke. Even if he has a broke mindset, that can still be changed, right? But someone who's loyal to somebody and, like, committed to that means more to me as a person than just how much money he can make. Like, if he's loyal to me, he's probably treating me very well, right? He's not cheating on me. He's treating me well. He's invested in me and our relationship, but maybe not in making money, but maybe I can help him do that. I don't know. I won't count on it. But if I'm in a relationship, if I'm forced to be in a relationship, yeah, I want it to be a relationship.

John [00:06:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:57]: I want there to be love and.

John [00:07:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:00]: Connection and partnership. And if someone's cheating on you, you can't have that. There's no trust there. There's no building of things. It's superficial and that.

John [00:07:10]: And now what do you think that. That women will. Would. Would choose? Actually, let me ask you this. What do you think women will do? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you think.

Nicole [00:07:20]: Yeah, not all of them.

John [00:07:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:22]: But in today's age, I think they would choose money.

John [00:07:26]: I think. Yeah. I think most women would choose money. I think it's biologically wired for women to choose.

Nicole [00:07:33]: In fact, it gives them security.

John [00:07:36]: Here's what I'll say from my experience, and not just my own personal experience, but from. From working with men for a long time, is that women actually stick with a guy more. The more that he cheats. Women are more.

Nicole [00:07:56]: Why.

John [00:07:58]: Why is a very long.

Nicole [00:08:00]: But any guy or a rich guy. Because we're only talking. We're only talking about rich guys.

John [00:08:05]: Well, here's the thing to think about with this, right? Is that. Here's why. Actually. Why is actually the answer to that question, right? The why is because the strongest biological signal of a man's status and value is that he has access to other women, that other women want him. Right? And so the best way that a man can demonstrate that is by being with other women. Now, I'm not saying that. That is. I'm not condoning it. I'm not saying this is smart.

Nicole [00:08:40]: I'm just saying that I was literally think. Thinking that that's the dumbest thing of ever heard.

John [00:08:44]: But from a biological signal, right? This is why it happens, right? Women tend to stick with guys who cheat on them. In fact, they're more bound to those guys than guys that don't cheat on them.

Nicole [00:08:57]: What?

John [00:08:57]: Yeah, think about. We've got some friends.

Nicole [00:09:00]: So you think that I'm more, less bound to you because you haven't cheated on them?

John [00:09:04]: No, no, Actually, that's actually a unique case because in my past, I had cheated. Not on you, but I had cheated. Which actually gives the same signal.

Nicole [00:09:17]: No, that actually was the reason we almost didn't end up together.

John [00:09:20]: But it's also a strong signal of status, right? So what I'm saying is that when we go to the basic biology of women, right, Women are attracted to status in men, right? Hierarchy, higher in the dominance hierarchy. Status hierarchy. That a man is. That is the attraction trigger. It's not necessarily money, it's not necessarily looks. It's not any of those things. It's really status. Is that the biological. Not at a logical level, but a biological level. That's the main attraction trigger. And so that's why women would choose a man that has money over and is unfaithful to a man that's broke is because of the status. Because that guy is demonstrating his status. Again, not in a good way. I'm not condoning it. There's a difference between what I'm saying is biologically happening versus what I'm condoning. I'm not condoning any of these things. We're all about having a good monogamous relationship. That is the. The point of this podcast. But what I'm saying is that biologically, that is a high signal of a guy's status. The fact that he can cheat and the fact that he has money, like those two things together are actually. Are actually both showing status. Whereas when you take the other side, a guy that's broke is showing low status. A guy that's faithful because. And the reason why a guy being faithful is showing low status in general, depending on the guy, is because a woman is generally going to assume that a guy that is not a player. This goes back to the dating. Like women only date players, not guys looking for relationships. Is that a man that would take his Option that has options would take them. Women generally think that about men. Like you think that about men. Not, not like, not me, of course, but like, in general, I think what about men? That a man that has options would take them. So a lot of women understand about men. They're like, all men cheat. Right. They're like, all men would cheat. And so if you have a base thinking of man that all men would cheat and your man's not cheating, it means he doesn't have options. It means he can't. Right. So again, that doesn't apply black and white. It doesn't apply to all people in all cases. I'm just saying at a base biological level, these are high biological triggers or signals. A man that is cheating or is. Is that can cheat, does cheat. And a man that has money is very high status. Boom, boom, boom. It's giving off that a man that is faithful and doesn't have money, especially the combination of two, is giving very low status because probably that guy doesn't have options. Why doesn't that guy have money? He doesn't have status. It's a, It's a low, low value signal.

Nicole [00:12:12]: Again, I hear it's not a moralistic perspective. I think it has nothing to do with cheating. You're acting like it has everything to do with the status and the man being desired by other women. I think it has nothing to do with that.

John [00:12:27]: Okay.

Nicole [00:12:27]: I think it's a survival mechanism. The man with money will provide a woman with a safe life.

John [00:12:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:12:36]: Even if he is not safe to be romantically involved in.

John [00:12:40]: Sure.

Nicole [00:12:40]: She is financially safe. She will live.

John [00:12:43]: Correct.

Nicole [00:12:43]: She will have access to. Let me finish because I know you're like, waiting.

John [00:12:48]: Well, I'm just saying. I'm saying I agree with you. Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:51]: So she'll have access to a bunch of different options. Financially, she'll have healthcare. She'll have all these ways to take care of herself that someone with lower income will not have. That's true. I. I don't think it has anything to do with cheating. Like, I'm not saying that there isn't some of the biological stuff that you've talked about involved.

John [00:13:16]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:16]: But I think that is 20 if that maximum of the decision. I think it is majority survival.

John [00:13:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:27]: And that they will forego a romantic relationship in order to survive or in order to live a certain lifestyle.

John [00:13:35]: Yeah. To. To survive. Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:37]: Personally, I think that's a sad existence. Well, like, even if you have. I mean, it's a tale as old as time.

John [00:13:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:45]: That money can't buy you happiness.

John [00:13:47]: Let me, let me. What. Let me ask you this, though. What is the strongest signal that a man is good for a woman's survival? What one thing in him is the strongest signal that. That. That she can survive, that he can make her survive. Give her.

Nicole [00:14:06]: I don't think it's how many women that.

John [00:14:08]: No, no, it's status. Status. So it does. It's. So what I'm saying is it comes back to status. So. So you're right. Like the root. The root of it.

Nicole [00:14:17]: People can have status and not have money. There's like celebrities. Yeah, but our celebrities.

John [00:14:21]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:14:21]: But have lost all their money.

John [00:14:23]: Right, but it doesn't matter because. Yeah, but with that status, they can get security, right? If.

Nicole [00:14:28]: If not financially, they can get women.

John [00:14:31]: Yeah, no, no, no. Financially, like, so someone like Mike Tyson, right? Mike Tyson's a great example. Okay? This dude, I read his biography. I mean, he definitely was. Is crazy, but. But he lost all his money. Okay, but he's Mike Tyson. He's Mike Tyson. He could get money again because he's Mike Tyson, right? Because. Hey, do you want me to do a commercial for you? Boom. Million dollars, right? You know what I'm saying? It's like he's Mike Tyson. He has status. He maintained his status and now he has money again. Because if you have status, you'll always have money.

Nicole [00:15:02]: Okay, but do you want a man that gets money for not what he does, but for just his name?

John [00:15:07]: It doesn't matter. Like, do you want that? Not necessarily, but what I'm saying is that status is the attraction trigger for women, right?

Nicole [00:15:15]: Because it makes it easy for men to make money because it means. It makes. It means survival gives men easy mode.

John [00:15:21]: So think more caveman days. Like, right? So a man that has high status in the tribe, right? He, like, he. He's not going to get killed. He's not like, he's. He's respected by the other men in the tribe. Like, you see, I'm saying that status is going to give you that survival

Nicole [00:15:40]: because he does stuff, right?

John [00:15:41]: Yeah, he's valued. Whatever. For whatever reason, he's valued, right? I mean, sometimes the king is the weak, you know, pathetic guy, but he's the king, so he has status. So he has. He has protection money, guards. He gets to command everyone, Right, right. Like that. You know what I'm saying? So status is. Is ultimately the driver. That's happening. But. But it, but it's. It's survival. It's like you said, like, you're at. You have it Exactly. Right. The survival instinct is the strongest instinct in humans, and in women, it's even more so. Right?

Nicole [00:16:10]: Yeah. But it's interesting. You said, like, a weak king, he still has status. Or what was the other example? Like, I. Okay, like the caveman. So my thing is, like, you're like the caveman. He did something to earn his status. There wasn't money back then. He went. He killed the most gazelles or. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, he had to do something, right? So that should give him status. Now, if you're with a weak king or you're with a rich man who's weak, right. You're not attracted to that man. He didn't really do anything.

John [00:16:41]: That's a good point.

Nicole [00:16:41]: And so, like, that's unattractive. And at that point, you're kind of. If you're a woman that just wants security, you're kind of using that man because you're not attracted to him.

John [00:16:51]: So, example, like, let's take the. The. Maybe, I guess we could say the trust fund kid, right? Who gets a bunch of money from a trust fund, right. And he's blowing it at nightclubs and all the stuff and. Right. Lavish, Right? What's. What's that movie with Russell Brand, get

Nicole [00:17:11]: him to the Greek?

John [00:17:13]: No, no, the one where he's like the spoiled rich kid that.

Nicole [00:17:16]: Yeah, get him to the Greek.

John [00:17:18]: No, it's like. It's a name. It's one. Arthur. Yeah. Arthur.

Nicole [00:17:22]: Wait, what is get him to the Greek then? Isn't he in that one, too?

John [00:17:25]: I don't know. I don't know. Oh, okay.

Nicole [00:17:30]: Oh, okay. Is that not the same thing?

John [00:17:32]: No, Arthur, he's like the spoiled rich kid. Whatever.

Nicole [00:17:34]: Okay.

John [00:17:35]: Yes. Okay. So women will see that guy as a target, right? Because he's weak. So they will want to be with that guy to be able to use him, and they will cheat on that guy. Right? You see what I'm saying? They'll cheat on the guy that just has money, that didn't earn the money.

Nicole [00:17:50]: So that's not very smart from a survival.

John [00:17:53]: Yeah, yeah. But when you ask a woman, would you rather be with a guy that is broke and faithful versus rich and cheats? The fact that he cheats means that he probably got that money from being successful because he has status. You see what I'm saying? Like, that's why those things connect. And women, in their mind, think rich guy. They think successful. They think he made money. They don't think he was a trust fund kid. Right? So that's not what, what normally comes to mind, but when you combine it with the cheating, that's also where you're like, okay, a person who is capable of cheating is probably someone who has high status. Again, not condoning it. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying from a biological level, that's why it makes sense. And also different countries. Right. So what you said. Right. So in the western society. Right. In the US Women are less inclined to choose the man who has money and is unfaithful. Right. Why? Because of exactly what you said, which is survival instinct. Because in Western society, women have less of the survival instinct. They still have it, but not as much as in third world countries. Right. You go to like especially war torn countries. You go to like Russia, Ukraine, Colombia, places where Venezuela, like places where there's more poverty and it is more survival. Right. If you're low class, you're in survival, like just getting enough food to eat and survive. So in that sense that women are thinking more, okay, I need to survive. And so they're looking at, okay, which men will give me the most survival. And that is an attraction trigger. So I think it's like, I think people are always like trying to separate it and they're like, oh, gold digger, whatever. Women care about money, men care about looks. And it's really like whatever biologically makes you feel like you're going to get the thing that you need actually makes you attracted to that person at a real attraction, not just a using them type of attraction. But so for a lot of women, men with money or success triggers true genuine attraction. It's not just a I want to get his money.

Nicole [00:20:04]: Yeah, but if a man cheats on you, you should not be attracted to him. And honestly, you have no self respect for yourself. There has not been repair to the actual relationship. Look, like, I'm not saying that a man can't cheat and things can't be repaired. Personally, I don't think that I could. If you cheated on me.

John [00:20:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:27]: Follow through. I mean we've been through so much stuff, it's just not possible.

John [00:20:31]: Look, you don't have to, you don't give me the, the warning.

Nicole [00:20:34]: I, I know, I'm just saying. No, no, I'm just saying though that like, and I'm not saying that it can't be worked through for everyone.

John [00:20:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:42]: For me and you. No, for everybody. Like some people, I, if they feel like they have.

John [00:20:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:48]: Fix their relationship, I'm fine with that.

John [00:20:51]: Okay.

Nicole [00:20:51]: But yeah, there is still some level.

John [00:20:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:57]: Of Lack of self respect.

John [00:20:59]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:21:01]: And so how can. Again, another like thing you hear all the time, how can you love someone if you don't love yourself? And if you stay with someone that cheats on you because they have money.

John [00:21:13]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:13]: You, you don't love yourself.

John [00:21:15]: Granted, I agree with you.

Nicole [00:21:16]: You just want to survive. Which I get from like the perspective like you talked about. I get that it's ingrained in us to some degree. However, there is obvious issues here on this side of like, rich guy, but he's going to cheat on you. And I also think men asking this question goes into what I feel like is a part of the issue and problem as well is that the more money men make, the richer they get.

John [00:21:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:21:48]: The more they feel like they can cheat. Because now they have women that are attracted to them just for their money.

John [00:21:55]: Right. Which again, but that is, but just for their money is a misnomer because. Because like I said, biologically the thing that is a survival trigger is the

Nicole [00:22:05]: attraction trigger, the status. I understand what you're saying. However, they know nothing about you for sure except that you have status.

John [00:22:11]: Yeah, but you see attractive woman with, with a nice curves and you don't know nothing about her, but you're attracted to her just because of what she looks like. Right. So.

Nicole [00:22:21]: But I think that that's different. Yeah, like, it's the same. Yes. In the sense of like, it's very superficial at initial stage.

John [00:22:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:29]: But I'm saying in terms of relationship, I don't know any woman that would just be content that a man likes her for her body. Because yeah. As a woman, you know that that's going to change no matter what. No matter, like, you're going to get wrinkles.

John [00:22:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:44]: You're going to have to go to the gym to maintain, but you're still not going to be able to maintain. Your body's going to go through different phases. It's not going to look the exact same.

John [00:22:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:52]: For 60 years.

John [00:22:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:54]: So no woman would ever take a bet where.

John [00:22:57]: That's a good point.

Nicole [00:22:58]: Hey, I'm going to marry this man and I'm okay with him just liking me for my body and my looks.

John [00:23:03]: You just uncovered something really big that I don't think I've heard anyone talk about.

Nicole [00:23:07]: I'd be doing that.

John [00:23:09]: That was really good because like, I want to just unpack that for a second because like, the reason why women don't want. What you just answered was a question of why does a woman not want a guy to just be attracted to her. Why does a woman not like compliments about her looks? Like, for example, why does a woman. Why is that not actually attractive that the man's attracted to her? Just her looks? Right. Why does she want more? Is it because. Because the default answer is like, oh, I want him to appreciate me or to care about me is also me as a person. Right. Which is. It sounds lame, right? But the reasoning behind it is exactly what you just uncovered it, which is

Nicole [00:23:49]: that it's not sustainable.

John [00:23:51]: Exactly. So if a woman knows it's not sustainable, she knows that she needs him to be attracted to something besides her looks in order to actually that he's going to stay with her over the years. I never heard anyone say that before, but there you go.

Nicole [00:24:04]: I didn't think it was that profound.

John [00:24:06]: I think it is pretty obvious. Like, I never even thought about that and I've never heard anyone say that. It makes a lot of sense. It answers the question.

Nicole [00:24:14]: There you go. But also. Okay, so besides that, you know, it's not sustainable. So a woman would never take that deal. But men can be successful for the rest of their life, right? And so a woman would take that bet if she's okay with not having sure. Money. But here's the thing. Or not having love.

John [00:24:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:36]: Here's the thing, though. What if that man loses everything? That woman is not staying, Especially if you cheated.

John [00:24:42]: It depends.

Nicole [00:24:43]: She's not going to stay.

John [00:24:44]: Again. It depends. Again, status. Right. So the attributes that make a man able to cheat, that make a man able to make money to be successful. Those. Assuming those things don't change. Right. So here, here's something to go back to because I wanted to make sure we hit this as well. So the whole thing of cheating and a woman being attracted to him, what will really blow your mind is that I'm gonna say that women are more attracted to the guy the more that he cheats. Okay. And we have examples of people we know where this is the case. Right. There's one I can think of in particular that you know, of. Of a guy that's cheated like three times on this woman and she.

Nicole [00:25:32]: Oh, right.

John [00:25:33]: Okay.

Nicole [00:25:33]: I. But I don't think that's the reason.

John [00:25:35]: No, but it does happen. I. And I've seen it myself and I've experienced it myself.

Nicole [00:25:39]: They also had another aspect of their relationship that I think is.

John [00:25:43]: Yeah, but. But it is, it is true as. As harsh of a reality. It is, it is true. There's a lot of reasons behind it. One, one of the things I would put is that if a guy cheats on a woman and he goes groveling to her and he's like, oh, I'm sorry, so, so sorry, sorry. She's more likely to leave. If he cheats on a woman and she's like, I'm leaving. And he's like, okay, I understand. Then she's more likely to stay and chase him down. Now, is it good? No, but it's built into the psychology to the biology. Why? Because it's all about status. It's indicating that this guy is. Is high value because he is able to and he doesn't care. And those are the, those are the men that women stay with even though they shouldn't. They shouldn't. I'm not saying they should, but you see that pattern happen a lot of times where the guy is a complete asshole. He's cheating on them all the time, whatever. Every time he gets caught, he says, I'm sorry, I'm never. I'm not gonna do it again. But he doesn't really care. And then he does it again and she keeps on staying with him. Right? Like, you see that pattern? That is a pattern.

Nicole [00:26:56]: Okay. And it is women's responsibility to walk away from that stuff. I agree. And not accept it again. Self respect, right? However, do men just get a moral free card to be assholes and keep cheating on.

John [00:27:14]: This is not. This is not morality, right? In the sense that, like, I mean,

Nicole [00:27:18]: I think it is. Cheating is a morality.

John [00:27:20]: It's wrong. I'm saying, I'm saying it's wrong. It's not good. But this is the facts of life. This is how even though it's not good and you shouldn't do this as a man. Right. It's a dark psychology type of thing that happens. Right? Is because by indicating it's the strongest signal that a man can. Can give that he is higher value than that woman. Which women are attracted to men that are higher value than themselves. So it's the strongest signal that he could possibly give. It's dark psychology. It's not good. It's not going to create a good relationship, that's for sure. Like if, like people that are here listening to this podcast, they're here to have a good relationship. Like a better than perfect relationship. Like we have. Right. That doesn't create a good relationship, but it does have a woman continually chasing that guy down.

Nicole [00:28:07]: I hear what you're saying. I don't think a man that makes money and has high status but cheats on people is higher value than anyone. Like, yeah, they're not. And if you make more money and you have high status and you're a good person, right? You have, you are high value. You're the highest of value for sure. But if you just look good on paper, right? But you have all this dark side to you. You're making these moral, like, decisions that are not good, right? You are not high status. You are not high value.

John [00:28:41]: Well, okay, but here's the thing. I agree with you in the sense that I don't consider that person to be high value or high status, right? In my mind. But we don't get to decide. The world decides, right? Because status is driven by populace, right? So yeah, but the populace, right? Like do you think that Kim Kardashian is high status in your opinion? No. Right, like trashy, like low status in my mind, lowest of low status. Right? But in the world is she high status? And that's what counts. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:29:15]: But see, okay, that's what counts.

John [00:29:19]: That's what counts.

Nicole [00:29:19]: In terms of attraction, then this podcast means nothing because we're talking about things that are not the norm. You're saying that she's in society, high status, right? But just because someone is high status or something is normal doesn't make it the right thing. And that's what we've said on this podcast.

John [00:29:38]: And I agree.

Nicole [00:29:39]: So it doesn't matter in my opinion what society thinks. That's also why I would choose to be single. Or if I really had to choose and I couldn't be single, I would still choose the poor guy, right? Because I'm not losing respect for myself. Because I want financial security, right? And have no love and no connection and someone that's blatantly disrespecting me, right? On the regular, right? And live that life, right?

John [00:30:09]: But if you lived in a war torn country where like survival was not guaranteed, you might make a different choice.

Nicole [00:30:16]: And I can see that. But we're not. You can't add all these things to it in order to push me into this decision.

John [00:30:23]: What I'm saying is basic biology is what creates the default, right? So like your default biology might move you in this direction, but your logic and understanding and what you want out of life and wanting a relationship and your, your self respect for yourself moves you in this direction. You see, I'm saying it's like the basic wiring says this is how men and women are wired, right? When women are wired for survival, right? And it pushes you in one direction, but then everything on top of that, that is your Life and your, your values and, and who you are, like overrides that.

Nicole [00:31:01]: Yeah, right.

John [00:31:02]: Just like a man's basic biology is to go and spread his seed as far and wide as he can. But the over, over override of that is being in a relationship, wanting to be with one woman, making that woman the most valuable thing in his life, you know, is protecting that woman. Like that's, that's an override that happens over the biology.

Nicole [00:31:25]: Okay? So you would say that men are non monogamous by nature and they choose to be monogamous.

John [00:31:33]: I would say that.

Nicole [00:31:33]: So no man really wants to be in a relationship or be married that is outside of the norm of a man.

John [00:31:42]: I would say that the basic biology. So, okay, here's another basic biology, like to help you understand what I'm saying is that.

Nicole [00:31:49]: No, I understand what you're saying. The biology of a man is to be with as many people and spread, recede.

John [00:31:54]: Like our basic biology, monogamous is eat as much sugar as, and fats as possible, right? Like if, if it's just, if we didn't care about health, right, and looking good or whatever, we would just eat junk, right? Like the most, the most. The thing we would want to do the most would be to eat the worst foods for us because those are the most appealing foods. That's our basic biology. We override that biology and we eat reasonable meals. We don't just eat junk. People that don't override that biology suffer. Right? In this world that is hyper food, it's hyper sexualized, but it's a hyper, I don't know what the word is. Consumer. Appealing to the taste buds as well, right? And so, so people who can't over ride their basic biology end up being like animals and end up getting the results of an animal in this world, right? In relationship, they end up being fucked up, they end up ruining their lives, right? If you're, if you're a person that just is going to be driven by like a, a guy that's driven by your biology and you're just cheating all the time or whatever and you're just completely, you know, living your life based on your dick like thinking with that head, it's going to ruin your life. You're not gonna have a good life. It's going to be destructive in this society, in this world, right? So what I'm saying is that you have basic biology and then you have what's built on top of that to override it. We all have to override.

Nicole [00:33:18]: But maybe men have to face it more because then it actually proves you have discipline and you're a man.

John [00:33:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:24]: Because I'm not saying that women don't cheat and they don't do up stuff that men do. They do. But I would say our natural instinct is to be in love and have a relationship and have a family where men's is not.

John [00:33:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:39]: That, that's true.

John [00:33:40]: It's true.

Nicole [00:33:41]: But I also think that men. That also helps prove who a weak man is. Like, if a man cheats, you're a weak man. If you can't control what's in your pants, you're a weak man.

John [00:33:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:53]: Like, and so that's also why, like, if a man is rich but he's cheating, he's a weak man. It doesn't matter if he has money. It doesn't matter if he has status. If you can't control yourself.

John [00:34:09]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:11]: But you can provide money, which again, like financially and in some ways that gives women survival.

John [00:34:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:19]: And she will just detach, I guess, from that man. Because there's no way a woman is truly loving that man who's disrespecting her.

John [00:34:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:28]: She thinks, yeah, she thinks she might love him. Like, well, he's helping me live or something, some very minute thing. But she just, she's not in love with him.

John [00:34:39]: No, she thinks she, she thinks she is.

Nicole [00:34:42]: I don't.

John [00:34:42]: Because she's more attracted to him.

Nicole [00:34:44]: I don't think so.

John [00:34:44]: Yeah, yeah, because. Because that's the same thing like I said about, about the, the guy that cheated three times on the girl and then she's even more. Because she's now chasing that validation.

Nicole [00:34:55]: Well, she's insecure. That's the difference. And he's made her insecure by cheating on her.

John [00:34:59]: Because what's happened is the, the status levels that they were at relative. He just pushed hers down and pushed his up. And so that creates a stronger pull of attraction to her because now this guy is viewed as much higher status than her in her mind.

Nicole [00:35:16]: That only works if you have no self respect for yourself.

John [00:35:19]: For sure. Like, if you have self respect for yourself, you're leaving that situation. You're dealing with that at all.

Nicole [00:35:24]: But that's like, that's not a healthy.

John [00:35:27]: No, it's not woman. No, it's biology.

Nicole [00:35:29]: A woman that is attracted more attracted to a man that's disrespecting her is not a healthy woman is what I'm saying. Like, she does not have a healthy relationship with herself.

John [00:35:38]: She's following her basic biology instead of overriding her biology with self esteem.

Nicole [00:35:43]: She thinks that there's nothing else. She either thinks that she can't do it on her own, which is not true.

John [00:35:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:48]: Like if you're with a shitty guy right now, watching this, you can do it on your own. Go get a job, go do it on your own. You should do that.

John [00:35:55]: Unless you're in a place where you can't do that. Right. Whereas, you know, but here in the U.S. sure.

Nicole [00:36:00]: Which isn't that what we're mostly talking about? Like, I know you're using it. I'm just saying like different places because

John [00:36:05]: it's because it's just because it's more

Nicole [00:36:07]: prevalent to like need to survive. I get why you're.

John [00:36:10]: The reason why I think these topics are useful is because it's because. Because as humans, you and I, in order to have a successful, successful relationship, we have to override our biology. Right.

Nicole [00:36:21]: Right.

John [00:36:21]: So.

Nicole [00:36:22]: Well, I mean, understanding. I don't know what I'm overriding. I mean, because I feel like my natural instinct is to be in a monogamous. Monogamous relationship.

John [00:36:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:32]: And love my partner and want to be.

John [00:36:35]: Yeah. But there's, there's like, there's aspects of your biology that still. That you would.

Nicole [00:36:40]: Well, what are they?

John [00:36:41]: I mean, things like trying to take control, which. Okay, to a degree like that is

Nicole [00:36:48]: something that's not even my biology. That's like what society has put on me.

John [00:36:52]: Yeah, but women in general, biologically are wired to try to take control from a man.

Nicole [00:36:57]: You think that's. I think that that's more of a modern day problem.

John [00:37:01]: No, no.

Nicole [00:37:01]: You think it's a biological problem.

John [00:37:03]: It's bio. Even the Bible says it. Even the Bible is like, you know, in when, when, when God pronounces the curse on Adam and Eve and it says that, you know, Adam you'll work all the days of your life and Eve you'll try to be in charge. Basically. I'm misquoting, but basically. But he'll rule over you.

Nicole [00:37:23]: Why do you think that is?

John [00:37:25]: I think. Okay, I'll tell you exactly why it is. I don't think I know exactly why it is. It's because. It's because women in their sexual selection. Right. It's the same reason why women are more monogamous. Right. Is because there's a much greater parental investment from a woman. When a woman makes a choice to have sex with a guy. Back in the day, there wasn't condoms and birth control. Right. She's now making a commitment to like carry a Child for nine months, right? And to, to those, you know, she can't, doesn't have that genetic diversity. Like she has one child that she has to care for nine months and then she has to take care of that child and it becomes a economic and survival burden on her. Now she has to take care of herself and a child. And so her choosing a man to have sex with is very, very important. A man choosing a woman to have sex with, it doesn't matter. He can have as many.

Nicole [00:38:18]: Because he can just leave.

John [00:38:19]: Yeah, because he can just leave. He can, but that's not what should be. He can spread his genetics all over the place and get this woman pregnant, this woman pregnant, and this woman pregnant. A woman that makes a choice has nine months where she's confined to that one choice, right? Like biologically, Right? And so give me the question again because I, I went off, but it relates to it.

Nicole [00:38:40]: How Am I fighting against my biology?

John [00:38:42]: No, like, like why? Why does a woman want to take control?

Nicole [00:38:45]: Oh, oh, okay.

John [00:38:46]: Because almost all of the things that a woman does are based in testing the man, right? Because a woman needs to make sure she wants to try and take control of the man in order to see if she can. A man that she can control is a weak man, is not a good investment for her child, understand? Because it's not very good for survival. Because a man that can be controlled by a woman can be controlled by other men, can be controlled by other women. Not a safe choice, right? Because if you try to control me and I'm like, yes, ma', am, whatever. I've become like a people pleaser, like pushover guy, right? Then, okay, some attractive woman comes by and now I don't have the self respect or discipline. Like she can just steal me away, right? Or some guy comes and wants to kill you and he's like. And I just run away because he tells me to get out of here and I get out of here. You see what I'm saying? It's a survival instinct. So almost all the things that women do is to test a man, right? To see, right?

Nicole [00:39:56]: Because they're unpredictable.

John [00:39:58]: Like even, even acting irrational. Like, okay, is he going to get angry and become violent? Need to see that, right? So, so all of the behaviors that men think are crazy behaviors that come from women, they're really just biological tasks to see if a man is fit, right? That's why women do those things. They're not psych. They're not, they're not logically doing these things. They're subconsciously Doing these things because it's built into the biology to test a man.

Nicole [00:40:21]: Mm. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, makes sense. But I do think men are more of the rogue ones now, actually.

John [00:40:32]: In. In what way? What do you mean?

Nicole [00:40:35]: They're more unpredictable. Cuz like you had mentioned when you briefly talked about this topic a little bit, that one woman said, well, if a man's going to cheat anyway, then I'm going to pick the rich guy. And I was like, that's the only one that makes sense to me is because not all men that cheat are the rich guys. There are some good men that cheat. You are one of them. You know what I mean? You didn't cheat on me.

John [00:41:01]: Right.

Nicole [00:41:02]: But you're a good man and you still cheated. And so that's rogue. And I'm not saying that women don't do rogue things as well too.

John [00:41:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:11]: But it also made me think about why men want younger women. And it's because they have less experience with other men messing them up. And so.

John [00:41:23]: Yeah, okay, okay.

Nicole [00:41:24]: And so, like, men actually cause a lot of the problems with their rogue actions. And maybe it's their singular focused brain, maybe it's their biology taking over and they're lacking discipline.

John [00:41:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:41:41]: But again, like, I am not trying to blame all men, but at the same time, like, the puzzle pieces are connecting here. Like why men want younger women, that why they want a virgin. Like, they want a woman that other men have not tainted, but yet other men do not hold their fellow men to the standard to not fuck women up, essentially. And they think cheating is fine. Like, they're like, oh, well, if a guy's rich and he has status and women want him, that's a good no. Like, sure, from a man's perspective. But like, men do cheat statistically, even if it's slightly more.

John [00:42:24]: More for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because. Okay, and the default is. And this is the painful truth to here, is that if a man can cheat, he will cheat. That is the default. Now, that doesn't mean that's every man, but that's a default for most men. Like, I can guarantee you, right, we did this, we had an episode where some lady was like, tempting this woman's women's husbands on TikTok.

Nicole [00:42:49]: Remember that?

John [00:42:50]: And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna guarantee you 90% of men are gonna respond to that. Right? Because the reason why a majority of men that don't cheat, don't cheat is not because they're faithful, it's because they can't. It's because they can't. Because, you know, you were. We've been talking to Manny, you know, my friend, and he was talking about how like. Yeah. Or telling you about how difficult it is for a man to actually be able to get laid. Right. Like, you have to have skill, you have to have a lot of things going for you as a man to even be able to have a shot. Like, it's hard. And so most men are not going to be able to do that. Can I, like regularly? Right. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:43:33]: Like, can I say something?

John [00:43:34]: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:36]: Do you see why?

John [00:43:37]: Oh yeah.

Nicole [00:43:38]: That statement that woman made.

John [00:43:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:40]: Makes the most sense for sure.

John [00:43:42]: No, say which one? I know which one you're talking about.

Nicole [00:43:45]: That all men are going to cheat anyway, so you might as well pick a rich one.

John [00:43:48]: Yeah. Like it makes a lot of sense.

Nicole [00:43:50]: Do you see, though, where it's literally unfathomable that any man who could cheat will cheat?

John [00:44:02]: Well, because I think the thing is, is to understand that, and this is why these discussions are important, is that that is in the basic biology of men, Right? But is that okay? And to be non monogamous. Right.

Nicole [00:44:14]: I hear we already talked about that.

John [00:44:16]: So it has to be overridden, Right? So that's why, like, why that assumption that like that base assumption is generally correct. Like, like a woman having that assumption that was like all men are going to cheat anyway is not. It's not that crazy of an idea to have. It sounds bad. I'm not like trying to, but. But it is actually fairly accurate because you should assume that's the case until proven otherwise. As a woman. Right. If I were a woman and I were dating a man, I would put him in a lot of situations to see what he does and I would see if he cheats.

Nicole [00:44:45]: But how can you trust that he's not going to slip up? Like, you can't keep testing this guy. And that just proved to me what you said, that so many men are actually weak men. And that's the problem with dating today. And that's why women are probably going to these superficial relationships because of exactly what you just said. Like, if most men would cheat, right, that means they're weak men. That means to me they're not good men.

John [00:45:16]: Yeah. Well, okay, so that's why I'm saying it's like if I were, and I were dating a man, right? Okay. And I would test him. But. But here's why. Like, because you need to know, first of all, is this man faithful only because he doesn't have options. So you need to put him in situation where you can see if he has options.

Nicole [00:45:37]: So how do you do that?

John [00:45:38]: Like, have him around a lot of your attractive friends or things like that? Like, like, like give him situations where you can observe his behavior and see what he does in those situations. Right. So is he a desperate man? Like, is he, like, is he trying to talk to women, like at a, at a party or place? Like, like, is he looking around at, at, at women? Right? Like, because those are signs that, that he's, that he's not able.

Nicole [00:46:10]: But a lot of men look around at women and try to act like it's normal and it's fine.

John [00:46:16]: Yeah, but like, I guess what I'm saying is that the thing you have to distinguish is, is if this guy,

Nicole [00:46:22]: like, do you trust him?

John [00:46:24]: Could this guy, if he wanted to get women, that's really the thing that you have to know about a man, right? If you're dating a man, you have to know, could this guy, if he wanted to get women, and if that's the case, and then you observe that he doesn't, then he's good.

Nicole [00:46:39]: Okay, but what about if he makes more money, gets higher status? Yeah, but then you think he, you just assume he's still gonna stay the same because plenty of men.

John [00:46:48]: No, no, but that's the wild card. And this is why women, this is why women don't like a guy that doesn't have status because he, he is a wild card. So let me. Here's what I'm saying.

Nicole [00:46:58]: So you're saying if he started out not having status and he was loyal.

John [00:47:02]: I'm saying this is why women only date players, right? Like, women don't want a guy that's looking for a serious relationship. They want a guy that's, that's playing around, playing the field. Why? Because. What does that indicate? That indicates that this guy is not as much of a wild card. Why? Because it means that he can get women. If a man can get women, right? And then he's in a relationship with you and he doesn't cheat on you, you can have a lot better surety that, that will continue that way. Because he already had the options to get women. Even if he makes more money now, it doesn't matter because he was already getting women before he met you, right? And now he met you, and now he's with you and he's staying with you, and he's not cheating on you. So even if he gets a lot of money, he's probably still going to be the same. Whereas probably still there's no guarantees. But the man who does not have women, who's not successful with women, who's not a player, he's the most risk. He's not guaranteed to do it, but he's the most risk. Because what happens if he has a glow up? What happens if he starts making money? What happens if he gets a promotion at his work and he has higher status now? He didn't have access to the women before, so you can't judge his loyalty just because he's staying with you and he's being faithful to you now. Right. Because now he may go and do that stuff. So he's more of a wildcard. That's why women will only date players, is because the player is a known quantity, is because if he had access to the women and then he chose you and chose to be with you, then you can know that he made a conscious choice, not a desperate choice.

Nicole [00:48:42]: Which I. Okay, I understand that and I appreciate you explaining that because it makes a little more sense. However, it's getting kind of far into this episode and you said probably won't cheat on you. You said that there's not a guarantee.

John [00:48:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:58]: So essentially, like this whole conversation makes me really sad for women, for sure.

John [00:49:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:04]: Like the woman that said again, like, might as well date the rich one because they all cheat anyway.

John [00:49:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:13]: I don't want to end this episode in a sad note.

John [00:49:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:18]: But. So maybe you can help out here.

John [00:49:20]: Well, this is. But I'll help out.

Nicole [00:49:22]: I don't blame women for being single. I don't blame them for wanting to stay single after this conversation, like, okay, it's. It has made me look, I mean, like, I guess if you're a woman that only cares about money, go ahead. But if you're a woman that wants a man that's going to be loyal to you, your argument makes it sound like that that is a very rare thing to find and that if he's not already successful and has status, he could be loyal now, but not later. So like, well, it just seems very disheartening for women.

John [00:50:00]: I think women should only choose from men that are successful because. Because you can't, you can't know, like a guy that's not successful is a risk, is a greater risk.

Nicole [00:50:09]: Right.

John [00:50:10]: Because he, if he becomes successful. Right. But, but I would say this, but

Nicole [00:50:14]: that's such a small percentage and that's what guys complain about women going after the same successful men. And it's a small percentage. So like, and women are supposedly doing that according to the 80% of men that can't get a date. So, like, what do you see what I mean?

John [00:50:33]: They're doing the right thing. They're doing the right thing. It's going after successful men. Right? That's. That makes the most sense. What I would say, though, is that, okay, the whole purpose of this podcast is building a better than perfect relationship. And that is the best thing that you can do, right? That's the best guarantee, the best chance of. Of having a man that is.

Nicole [00:50:55]: But I don't even know how to do that unless you do date players and you somehow convert him. And that's not very realistic for a lot of women.

John [00:51:02]: Yeah, but I think that, like, okay, if you look at this could be a whole nother episode, right?

Nicole [00:51:08]: Maybe we need to do a part two.

John [00:51:10]: Yeah, I mean, we could do. Do a part two. Should we. To be. Continue this one?

Nicole [00:51:14]: Yeah, maybe we should, because I'm feeling dejected. Okay, Honestly, to.

John [00:51:19]: To be continued in part two next week. Next week.

Nicole [00:51:24]: Hopefully we can turn this around because I'm not feeling very hopeful right now.

John [00:51:28]: Okay, so tune in next week.

Nicole [00:51:31]: Check us out on betterthan perfect pod dot com. Yeah, and send us an email if you have any topics or conversations you want us to have at Better Than Perfect Podcasts at Gmail.

John [00:51:43]: And leave your opinion. What do you think? What would. What would. What do women choose? A. A poor guy who's faithful or a rich guy who is a cheater? Yeah, vote down below. Let us know. All right, we'll see you next time.

John [00:00:00]: If you come into a new relationship and maybe you have some things, like, I know with us, you would get defensive pretty quickly. Luckily, I could, like, realize where that came from. But even at times I would have to be like, hey, like, we can't really work through things if you're just going to instantly get defensive. You know what I mean? Like that you defensive, like something. What I'm saying is like you saying, john, okay, we're going to fight on this episode.

Nicole [00:00:25]: You fight. All right, I'm done. I'm done.

John [00:00:28]: Go ahead. Swear to God, if you say it

Nicole [00:00:29]: one more time now I want to say no. Beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

John [00:00:58]: That's right.

Nicole [00:00:59]: And today we're going to talk about getting the transition phase. Getting out of one relationship.

John [00:01:04]: Transition.

Nicole [00:01:05]: Yeah, transitioning. Getting out of one relationship and then into the next one.

John [00:01:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:11]: How should you do it? What should you think about how long? All those things.

John [00:01:15]: Yeah. Well, I'll start by saying, I swear I heard at one point as far as time wise, before you jump into another relationship, that it's like half of the time you were in the relationship is the time you should take before you get into another one.

Nicole [00:01:33]: That could be a long time for some people. Yeah, like it could be a really long time. It could be like decades, which I'm

John [00:01:39]: saying, like, unfortunately, I don't think there is like a set set time.

Nicole [00:01:46]: Yeah, yeah.

John [00:01:47]: I think that you have to be honest with yourself and realize what the emotional, I don't want to say damage, but if you broke up, there's going to be emotional damage.

Nicole [00:02:02]: Yeah, emotional damage.

John [00:02:03]: Yeah. You have to really look at how long do you realistically think that this might take? And then also don't make it a line in the sand because like, let's say you're really optimistic and you're like, oh, like I'll take six months.

Nicole [00:02:19]: Yeah.

John [00:02:20]: But by then the six months, you're still kind of like, no, this stuff is still bothering me. Like, I still don't feel like I have worked on the things emotionally from this past relationship. I think push it. Yeah. Like push the goal further. Like, I think it has to be based on what you went through because plenty of people can be in a 20 year relationship and they don't need 10 years.

Nicole [00:02:45]: Right.

John [00:02:46]: To like work through it. Now do I think everybody needs some sort of time after breakup? Absolutely. Like, you need time to absorb it, you need time to analyze it. You need time to like, figure out how you want to move forward. Because really when it comes to dating, and especially if you're in a relationship where you're committed and you break up, like, you do have to analyze that and you have to realize what went wrong, what went right, what do you want done differently? Like, what are you looking for now? Now, is it different? Is it the same? Is, you know, there's so many different aspects and so that's going to take time. So I think, like, I can't give a set time and I don't think it's a set time. Like the thing that I saw that was like, you know, half of the time you were together.

Nicole [00:03:36]: Yeah.

John [00:03:37]: Because I think some people now, if you like really sit with yourself for three months and you're like, I'm going to really focus on like the things that I need to focus on how this relationship went, like healing these things or working through these things or whatever, I think you can do it in three months. But I think that that's like extreme, like focusing on.

Nicole [00:03:59]: And it depends on like what happened in the relationship.

John [00:04:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:02]: What, where you already started from and.

John [00:04:04]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:04:05]: And like, and how long. I mean, I think the link, I mean, I think realistically in a 20 year relationship, probably a good four or five years, actually.

John [00:04:14]: I mean, I do think it would be years for a 20 year relationship.

Nicole [00:04:18]: Talking from personal experience of going from more than one relationship to one new relationship.

John [00:04:27]: You're a mess, but I love you.

Nicole [00:04:31]: It definitely created a lot of chaos. Jumping straight in. Right?

John [00:04:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:36]: So, you know, like, I mean, those were the situation. It was the situation. What it was, you know, but had I had a breather in there, I probably would have avoided a lot of the chaos that we initially went through because I was still sorting out a lot of shit for a long time that took a lot to sort out.

John [00:04:53]: Well, you suppressed a lot of it and then it hit you like a ton of bricks.

Nicole [00:04:57]: Yeah.

John [00:04:57]: And then. Yeah, like, don't recommend that.

Nicole [00:05:00]: No, it was, it was great. I mean, we, we did what we, what we did. Like we were in love. Like, obviously, Like, I don't regret, like that I would have chosen you going through all that shit for sure. But, you know, had I had like the master plan and the options and I could still be with you, I would have put a little space in there, put a little breather in there to like, get my shit together and sort stuff out. Because, you know, like, you don't anticipate what is going to happen afterwards. Right. Because it takes time for those life changes to really sink in and then the emotional processing of what's actually happened. Right. And to get all that stuff sorted out. Right. So I think that you do need that space, and it's probably more space than you think that you need.

John [00:05:54]: True.

Nicole [00:05:56]: And having coached a lot of guys, having to work with a lot of guys, where I've been through it with them after their breakups, and it takes a long time sometimes for them to get totally over their relationship, even when it was a bad relationship. Because you get. The best example I used to use was the Shawshank Redemption, Right. In that movie, there's the old librarian guy and he's been in jail for long, long time. 40 years or something. 50 years, whatever it is, most of his life he spent in that jail. And then he gets out of jail and then like a couple weeks later they find him hanging from his ceiling fan in his apartment because he couldn't handle the freedom. Like he. Because it was. Because the life change was too much for him. Like, you would think getting out of jail would be a good thing, but it's not about the quality of the situation you're in. It's about changes after a long period of time are very hard for any person, especially.

John [00:07:00]: Big change.

Nicole [00:07:01]: Exactly.

John [00:07:02]: A lot of change really quickly.

Nicole [00:07:04]: Especially like divorces, especially living with someone. Right. Like that kind of. It doesn't even matter if you're at the point you don't even like the person. It's a big change. And I think most people under, anticipate or underestimate what it will take to go through and emotionally cleanse yourself from that situation, to process all that stuff.

John [00:07:28]: So for sure. And I don't think that you have to be healed completely before you get into another relationship, but you definitely have to process your feelings about the person you were with. Like, that has to be fully gone. Because if you still have feelings about the person that you were with, like, good, bad, whatever, like they're still living rent free in your head.

Nicole [00:07:52]: Yeah.

John [00:07:53]: That's not going to be good for any relationship you get into. Now, I say this because if you come into a new relationship and maybe you have some things that, like, like, I know with us, like, you would get defensive pretty quickly and like, luckily I could, like, realize where that came from. But even at times I would have to be like, hey, like, like you're kind of, like, instantly getting defensive. And I get why.

Nicole [00:08:21]: No, I didn't.

John [00:08:21]: But, like. But at the same time, like, I'm not. I'm not, like, doing anything to make you so defensive with me. Like, I know where this is coming from, but, like, we can't really work through things if you're just gonna instantly get defensive. You know what I mean? Like, that you. Defensive, like, something. They're not gonna even know what that is referencing, but unless they're in San Diego and they went to the old Globe. But what I'm saying is, like, you saying. Just kidding, John.

Nicole [00:08:52]: Okay,

John [00:08:57]: we're gonna fight on this episode.

Nicole [00:08:59]: You fight. All right, I'm done. I'm done. Go ahead. Sorry.

John [00:09:03]: I swear to God, if you say it one more time.

Nicole [00:09:07]: Now. I want to say it one more time.

John [00:09:08]: No.

Nicole [00:09:08]: Okay, Go ahead. Go ahead.

John [00:09:11]: I will just sit here for the rest of the episode not saying anything if you say it one more time.

Nicole [00:09:16]: Okay.

John [00:09:16]: It's not worth it because you interrupted what I was saying.

Nicole [00:09:19]: I'm sorry. Multiple apologies.

John [00:09:22]: Thank you. Anyway, what I was saying was that if you have things that maybe are residual from your past relationship.

Nicole [00:09:30]: Yeah.

John [00:09:31]: Those should be able to be worked through with your partner.

Nicole [00:09:34]: Right.

John [00:09:35]: Like, once you talk about. Once you get to the point of your relationship where you talk about your previous relationships in a constructive way, like, your partner should understand and your partner should help you work through those things.

Nicole [00:09:48]: Yeah.

John [00:09:48]: Now, if you're still, like, I don't know if I love this person or something, or, like, I was with them so long, now I want to go back to jail or whatever. Those you need to work through.

Nicole [00:09:59]: Exactly.

John [00:09:59]: Those things have to be worked through if you still have any sort of feelings.

Nicole [00:10:03]: Yeah.

John [00:10:03]: Where you might want to be with them again or you're like, you know, they really bugged me, but I think that they're the only person that I like would have a future with. You're not ready.

Nicole [00:10:13]: Right? Exactly. Yeah.

John [00:10:15]: Like, that, I feel like, is the biggest thing.

Nicole [00:10:17]: And being with someone else will not make you ready.

John [00:10:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:20]: Right. That's a mistake that. That I definitely. One of my friends thought was gonna be the solution to his problem, and it didn't work.

John [00:10:30]: Is what getting married made them ready is.

Nicole [00:10:33]: Is. Is like after getting his divorce, finding someone else to help them get over. Like, I mean, people do that in

John [00:10:40]: general, but that's a recipe for disaster.

Nicole [00:10:42]: Yes, it is. It is. Because you might find someone that is good for you, but you're going to be miserable for some time. You might blow it up or Blow it up. Exactly. Because now you're.

John [00:10:53]: You might ruin a good thing.

Nicole [00:10:54]: Exactly. Yeah. Which. Which I was almost in danger of doing that. Right. So.

John [00:11:00]: Yes, unfortunately.

Nicole [00:11:01]: But no, but you're right. You're right. I think some of it too is like, you have to. There's some things that you're gonna work through in the next relationship, but there's also like a self reflection period where you say, okay, no matter how wrong or right you were in the relationship, you did something wrong. Right. Because you got with the person. So there is something that you did wrong. Whether you know in the relationship or like some, some self reflection, you can't blame it all on the other person. Right. There's something to learn about yourself or you stayed with them for so long or whatever it was.

John [00:11:35]: It could even be tolerating behavior you shouldn't have tolerated.

Nicole [00:11:39]: So I think it's important to evaluate that and say, okay, how can you fix this for the next one? And what are the new standards, boundaries that you would have? What will you tolerate and not tolerate very quickly? Because almost all the things in a relationship, they grow from the beginning. Exactly. And so, especially with men, when I'm coaching them, I have to constantly tell them, okay, when you're dating a woman from the very beginning, the next time her yelling at you, that's not going to be okay. Like, before it gets to the point where she's smacking you or calling you names and screaming at you. Like, it started with her raising her voice at you. It started with her being snippy with you that you allowed when you were dating. And so you gotta think about this and process this and be like, okay, before you just jump into something else, all right, these are the things that I'm going to do differently. I'm not gonna allow these things to grow. I'm not gonna allow these habits to happen that crept into the relationship at some point in time or even just the whole thing of just yourself. Okay. Tired of getting in a relationship where you yell and scream and you call each other names and have horrible fights.

John [00:12:52]: Well, nip that in the buddy.

Nicole [00:12:54]: It begins with you when you make the commitment of, okay, before I get into the next relationship, I already know going into it, I'm never going to raise my voice at my spouse or my partner or whoever I'm dating. I'm never going to call them a name or do a thing right Again, it doesn't mean that you're going to be perfect, but you have those new standards and you recognize that you did this in the past, and you don't want that to become that the pattern. Because relationships normalize. And all relationships, not just romantic relationships, but relationships normalize. You know, you got some buddies that you call shit bag every time you see them, and that's just what you do. But it became a normalization because that happened. And then it, you know, and now it feels fine to do that, but it might not be fine. It might not be cool. That's not really.

John [00:13:39]: It might just be normalized exactly like you said.

Nicole [00:13:41]: Yeah. And so the same thing happens where. But you can normalize the good things in a relationship. Like, our relationship is normalized where we don't do half of the shit that we did in other relationships. I know for me, I didn't. Probably the same for you. Because our normalization is that we don't do those things. And so I think that you have to have that time to reflect. And then where did things go wrong? What did you do? If you don't know why this relationship fell apart, you're not ready for the next one. You have to know that because it's like, you know, it's like getting. It's like getting your. Your house robbed multiple times. And then, like before you installed this, like, the. The security system or, you know, before you go on vacation, next time you need to figure out why was your house kept on getting robbed? Like, what was it? Like, where did they break in?

John [00:14:27]: You'll repeat the same pattern exactly like you said if you don't reflect on it for sure. And I feel like there's something else I was gonna say, but now I forgot what it was. I think it was some of the first things that you said when you first started talking.

Nicole [00:14:42]: What was I talking about? About, like, this. Some of the stuff that you do need to resolve before you get into relationship. Some of the stuff you could resolve in the relationship.

John [00:14:53]: Yeah. I feel like I had mentioned that, like, at the end, but I thought there was something else in there that you had said that I really wanted to say something about, but I completely forgot it now.

Nicole [00:15:06]: It'll come to you. You'll get it.

John [00:15:09]: Yeah, well, it's not here now.

Nicole [00:15:12]: Okay, well, when it comes. But. But yeah, you want to think about what that thing is.

John [00:15:20]: Yeah, My brain can't move on from that. I'm trying to think. I mean, you can say something.

Nicole [00:15:25]: I mean, I will say, like, wait, just tick down the clock until you get it. But no, I think the things. There are some things, though, that you will have to work on in the New relationship. And you have to expect that, because the things that you haven't really learned yet, some of them you can only learn inside a relationship. You can identify. These are the things I need to work on. But then you can try to work on them in that next relationship. And I think that's important because that's the whole point of relationship, is to make you grow. Right. That's why we're together, is because we grow together. That's what caused that, because you can only achieve so much growth on your own.

John [00:15:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:00]: So.

John [00:16:00]: But I remembered it.

Nicole [00:16:01]: Oh, go ahead for it.

John [00:16:02]: Go for it. It was what you mentioned about nipping things in the bud in the beginning.

Nicole [00:16:05]: Oh, yeah.

John [00:16:06]: And that's why we have the rules of the relationship video, which, if you haven't watched that, you should. And I think it proves, too, that having rules, especially in the beginning of your relationship for, like, your expectations of how the relationship's going to go.

Nicole [00:16:24]: Yeah.

John [00:16:25]: Is actually super beneficial. And again, like, you don't have to come in, like, you can't do this. You can't do this. It shouldn't be like that. It's like, we're not going to do these things because I genuinely believe, besides the, like, mutual respect that we have for each other, the rules, and like, neither of us doing these things that would affect the other person has also really helped keep our relationship strong and made it stronger throughout. Because also, we would add new rules if they came along. Like, I'm trying to think of some new rule that we have. Well, I mean, I guess, like, before we got married, we didn't have the rule of not saying the word divorce, but now we have that rule where we don't say the word divorce. Because, like, that's just not acceptable to be throwing around those things. Like, it will emotionally change the situation and it shouldn't be normalized, like you said. So I think, like you said, analyzing the situation and you do have to also analyze your part in it. And again, that might even be something like, I shouldn't have tolerated this. Like, don't beat yourself up, because that's not gonna help. Then you'll have another problem that you have to try to conquer before you go back out in the dating world. But you need to be realistic. You need to be honest. You need to fully process your feelings about the person that you were with.

Nicole [00:17:43]: Yeah.

John [00:17:43]: Because I'm sure there are some good things you did choose to be with that person. So you can look at those aspects and be like, oh, I do really still want, though Someone that cares about family or, you know, like, whatever good things, you can still hold onto those things, but you have to let go of your feelings towards that person. Because anyone who's ever been in, like a new relationship, and then, like, you still feel like your partner has feelings for their ex, or maybe they might say that they don't, but then they leave you and they go back to their ex. Like, that's really crappy to put on someone else. So you really have to make sure that you fully process your emotions about the person that you were with before. Because, I mean, you wouldn't want to meet somebody and be like, oh, like we're having a great time, and then they leave you and go back to their ex. You know what I mean?

Nicole [00:18:36]: Like, quite traumatic, especially if they did it twice or so.

John [00:18:41]: Yeah, especially.

Nicole [00:18:43]: Yeah.

John [00:18:45]: But that's neither here nor there. But I'm just saying that I think that's honestly the. The biggest thing is, like, you have to, like you said, because I agree with you, I think that there are going to be some things that you aren't even going to be actually able to completely fix on your own.

Nicole [00:19:02]: Yeah.

John [00:19:03]: Because relationships are mirrors to us, and you need that mirror in order to focus on what you need to work on. And sometimes you need that person that supports you and understands to support you through working through this issue that you have. You know what I mean? But I think the feelings that you have towards the other person, they have to be completely gone. So however long that that takes you is how long you should.

Nicole [00:19:32]: Right.

John [00:19:32]: Again, you should definitely still in the meantime reflect and, like, realize what you're going to do differently.

Nicole [00:19:39]: Yeah.

John [00:19:40]: Like your expectations in the relationship, you know, or like rules that you would like to put into place. You should do all those things as well, too. But a lot of people, sometimes they feel like they've reflected. They're like, okay, I'll do this differently. But they still kind of have those feelings for their ex partner. Yeah, that's going to mess things up.

Nicole [00:20:00]: Yeah. Well, you have to be able to be able to be no contact for a pretty good amount of time.

John [00:20:04]: True.

Nicole [00:20:05]: Unless you have a kid, you have something where you have to. But if you can't be no contact with your ex, then you're not ready for another relationship. Because why can't you be no contact? Cause there's still some kind of emotional connection. That's what it means. Right. Unless you have a really good reason, which I don't know of any other one besides having a kid that you have to co parent. But.

John [00:20:27]: And even then, it shouldn't be buddy, buddy. It should be about the child.

Nicole [00:20:31]: Cause you can't, you should not be friends with your ex unless you just

John [00:20:36]: want to be smart.

Nicole [00:20:37]: That's just my problems, right? Like, because if you get into another relationship, you're gonna have a problem with that relationship, right? Like, don't invest in something that you're gonna have to cut off. Cause you definitely don't wanna be friends with your ex and be in another relationship that's not gonna work out. And then it's not a full processing, it's not a full closing of the,

John [00:20:55]: of the book, right?

Nicole [00:20:57]: Because why. Why do you still have that connection then, right? At that point? You know, it's like. And people make all kinds of justifications as to why, but it's an addiction, just like people on drugs will make all kinds of justifications.

John [00:21:10]: And it's keeping your options open, really, if you're going to be honest, it's keeping your options open for something because people will choose something familiar over something good for them.

Nicole [00:21:21]: Right?

John [00:21:21]: So that's also, if I'm being honest, why people stay in touch with their exes and have like a friendship is because a lot of times they feel like if shit hits the fan for either person, they'll just go back to each other. Even though it wasn't good, even though you broke up for a reason. Like, it's that having someone, even if it's bad. I mean, how many people know someone who does something or has a relationship in their life that is not good for them, but they keep going back to it?

Nicole [00:21:52]: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. All the time.

John [00:21:54]: Like, it's the familiarity. It's that, like you said, like, people have a huge problem with change, which I get. It's really hard to go through change, but also the only constant in life is change. And so really, instead of trying to avoid change or stay comfortable even though you're not happy, you have to learn to embrace change. You have to learn to, you know, grow, to learn from your mistakes and move forward making better decisions. That's. I mean, what every breakup should really be is, you know, reflecting on it, realizing what happened, what went right, what went wrong, how you're going to move forward, you know, processing not being with this person anymore. You know, like it's, it's multiple steps to this process. And so that's why I also don't think that you can have a set time.

Nicole [00:22:47]: Yeah.

John [00:22:47]: Because it's so many different aspects of it. And again, like I said, if someone's like locked themselves in their house and they're like, I'm just gonna face all this stuff and I'm gonna really work through it for three months, do I think they could do it? Probably, if they really do it.

Nicole [00:23:03]: And they're no contact.

John [00:23:05]: Right. And they're no contact and they're kind of like just that's all they're focusing on. Like that's their main focus. Sure. And they're like really committed to doing it the right way. But at the same time, like, like you said, if you've been in like a 10 year relationship, that's still probably going to take a few years. But also at the same time to what you said, like about how you and I met, I will say that doesn't mean you have to write off somebody that comes across that you feel like is the right person for you. Now if you still haven't gotten over your romantic feelings for your ex, it is best for them, even if you really like them, to be like, hey, like, I really am interested in getting to know you more and everything, but I'm just not ready yet. Like, be honest with them. Yeah, because maybe, I mean, they're probably not going to wait around for you, but maybe they will be single in like five more months when you finally feel ready. Yeah, but that's, it's better to be honest. Even if like something crosses your path or maybe someone crosses your path, but you haven't like reflected on some of the lessons or things, but you've gotten over your romantic feelings towards your ex, then I would say you can proceed, just proceed with caution. Because there might still be some baggage that really you should work through that you might bring into this relationship. But also if it's the right person, they're going to want to help you and you should want to help them.

Nicole [00:24:32]: And it's ideal. If you like, if you're not even putting yourself in the situation and it just happens. Well, like until you're ready. It's better if when you get out of relationship you have a transition period where you establish a new normal of yourself living by yourself or being by yourself. And that becomes the change. Like you're adjusted to that change and then you make the change to be in a new relationship.

John [00:24:59]: That's true.

Nicole [00:25:00]: Because otherwise, like you're still not used

John [00:25:04]: to being by yourself, codependent.

Nicole [00:25:06]: Yeah, you might, you're not, you're not on your own. You need to be okay with being alone, being by yourself, having that change processed. And then you can be Fully sure that if that change processed, then the previous relationship stuff is done and you can go into another one. Otherwise if you don't have that period, then when you get into the new one, you might still have the old one. Right. So that's why like that.

John [00:25:28]: That's true.

Nicole [00:25:29]: Makes the most sense. That's ideal. Right.

John [00:25:31]: And another thing why that's a really good idea.

Nicole [00:25:34]: Yeah.

John [00:25:34]: Is that when you're on your own and you can do whatever you want, like you don't have someone's feelings involved anymore.

Nicole [00:25:40]: Yeah.

John [00:25:41]: When something good comes along and it's better than your solitude.

Nicole [00:25:45]: Right.

John [00:25:47]: Then you will know that it's worth pursuing. But like you said.

Nicole [00:25:51]: Yeah.

John [00:25:51]: If you're still kind of like codependent or you're lonely. Loneliness is also very, very trick. It will push people into just finding somebody because they're lonely. Like you have to face the loneliness, you have to face yourself. You have to face being on your own, like you said, and fully accept that. And that feels like the new normal to you before you move forward.

Nicole [00:26:15]: And we know people who have done that where the loneliness has caused them to jump into something that they regretted that was not the best option for them. And then they're in it. And so.

John [00:26:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:31]: So you want to really be careful there because you need to be thinking straight. You're more likely to get into the wrong relationship if you don't give the time afterwards. And then you're just going to be back here again and processing another failed relationship.

John [00:26:46]: And you're more likely to get in the wrong relationship if it's coming from a place of loneliness. If I'm being honest.

Nicole [00:26:51]: Yeah.

John [00:26:51]: Like the loneliness will overtake your decision making center of your brain and just want to fix that problem. And then you probably will overlook things that you don't actually want in a relationship.

Nicole [00:27:03]: Yeah.

John [00:27:03]: Just to fulfill the lack of being like lonely anymore.

Nicole [00:27:08]: Yeah. So what are the things you think that you should kind of dissect after the relationship? I was thinking like, you know, the communication pattern, like your argument patterns. What other things do you feel like when you're reflecting in between that you should look at as areas to examine?

John [00:27:29]: I mean, I think communication and conflict resolution for sure. Because that's huge. Like we've talked about, like you ha. That has to be good. Obviously it wasn't good.

Nicole [00:27:41]: Right.

John [00:27:41]: Because you broke up. You know what I mean? So. So I think that actually would probably be the first thing.

Nicole [00:27:47]: Yeah, for sure.

John [00:27:48]: I think also like maybe it would be the rules or how your relationship was structured like, did you guys, like, call each other names? Like, could you guys go out to bars? Did you, you know, like, did your partner go on a trip and you told them that it didn't make you feel comfortable and they didn't care? Like, was there. Again, that might be communication, but, yeah, you know, like. But did you, like, let it slide because you didn't want to, like, have a conflict or whatever? You know what I mean? Like, I think, like, looking at the dynamic of the relationship when you guys were together, like, how was cohabitating if you lived together? Or how was. Like, was it tit for tat? Were they, like, oh, like, well, I made dinner last time, so you need to make dinner now. Or, like. And how did that feel? Were you okay with that? Like, did you want something that felt a little bit more like, pouring into each other rather than, like, keeping score? You know? Like, I think that you have to analyze the dynamic of the relationship, which. Like, it's hard, I guess. Like, I'm. I can't come up with a word for it. Like, the communication and the conflict resolution is also a part of this. But I'm also trying to think of, like, what word I would use to describe, like. Yeah, the. Just, like, daily dynamic.

Nicole [00:29:12]: Yeah, I. I guess, like, the. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's a word for the daily dynamic.

John [00:29:20]: The. The respect for each other. Yeah, maybe respect for each other. Yeah. But sex life, that. I mean, like.

Nicole [00:29:35]: Yeah. What are the. The list of things that were. That were good, things that were bad, and just in entirety. Right. Like, you know, what would you. What would you have changed?

John [00:29:47]: Yeah, I think also, too, like, where you aligned on things or you misaligned or, like, things that are, like, morally important to you. Were they aligned or were they not aligned?

Nicole [00:30:00]: What were the pattern. Oh, go ahead. Okay. Sorry.

John [00:30:03]: No, well, I mean, that's like, the fight patterns.

Nicole [00:30:05]: Like, what caused the fights? Like, is it the same issue? What was the issue?

John [00:30:10]: I mean, I think that's kind of communication.

Nicole [00:30:12]: Yeah, it is, but, like, identifying that exact pattern. Okay. What we always need.

John [00:30:20]: It would be worth just looking at, just kind of. To maybe tie it all together. Attachment styles.

Nicole [00:30:27]: Oh, yeah, that's true.

John [00:30:28]: You know, because, like, did you act more avoidant in the relationship than you normally are and then the other person was anxious or, like, were they anxious and it made you more avoidant? Like, you know, like. Or do you feel like you were secure at first and then you turned into something else? Or were they secure at first and Then turned into something else.

Nicole [00:30:48]: Yeah.

John [00:30:49]: Like, where did the. I guess, too. And honestly, where did. Do you feel like the relationship. Like, what was the final nail in the coffin? Was it communication? Was it lifestyle? I mean, I guess, too, like, lifestyle differences, you know, like, if someone wants to settle down and start a family, but someone travels a lot for their job, that's kind of hard, you know, like, people do it, but maybe they wanted, you know, grounding. Like, no, like, I want, you know, my kids to have a parent that comes home or their parents come home every day. You know what I mean? So sometimes the, like, big core things too obviously aren't aligned, and sometimes it's communication style. Like, we also don't, like, call each other names or do things like that because we don't want it to be normalized.

Nicole [00:31:38]: Right.

John [00:31:39]: Because that's a slippery slope into, like, well, what's a joke and what's hurtful? Like, so we don't even go there. You know what I mean? So you. I don't know. It's kind of hard to put it into. I thought you did good with your, like, little sections, but I feel like it is hard to, like, classify some of these things into a section, if that makes sense.

Nicole [00:32:01]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things to reflect on. And for. I mean, one of them would be, like, when did the relationship actually end? Because it's not when you broke up.

John [00:32:10]: True. Like, when did you check out? Or they check out.

Nicole [00:32:12]: Yeah. When did it really end? And then, you know, you're. And then why, like, what caused it? Oh, one. One good one is, like, the bitterness. Like, to get rid of all the bitterness and forgive and the resentment. Yeah. Because. And how did that build up? Right. Because that will build up again, and you need to clear it out before you start a new relationship.

John [00:32:35]: True.

Nicole [00:32:35]: Because if you're still holding all this resentment and bitterness to your ex, then. Yeah, exactly. You're gonna bring it into the next one because you're coming in with that. And you also may persecute your new relationship for the crimes of the old one.

John [00:32:53]: True.

Nicole [00:32:54]: Because that can happen too. Right. Because you have ingrained habits or you have bitterness or resentment that is, like, within you that needs to just be released. You need to forgive and release that so that you can come in fresh. I think those are.

John [00:33:09]: Yeah, well. And I think you need to honestly assess yourself in the relationship. Like, truly honestly.

Nicole [00:33:14]: Yeah.

John [00:33:14]: Then you also need to assess the other person with as much of emotion out of it as you can.

Nicole [00:33:22]: Yeah.

John [00:33:23]: You know, like, Just try to be like fact only for both yourself and the other person.

Nicole [00:33:30]: Yeah.

John [00:33:32]: Because that will also give you more insight. Cause like you said, like you didn't have no fault in the relationship no matter what. Like, yeah, so you do have to be able to analyze yourself. And then also, you know, like if someone didn't talk to you respectfully and that really hurt your feelings and let's say you didn't say anything early enough and then when you did it, like didn't matter anyway or whatever. Like next time you'll be like, look like we're not going to like talk disrespectfully to each other. You know, like, I'm not going to be in a relationship where that happens. I've been there. It was not good. I feel like it was part of the downfall of, you know, the relationship and so. And then let the person decide from there. But that's also a respectable thing to do. Like anyone who's going to be like, no, I don't want to speak respectfully to each other. I want to be able to say what I need to say. Like that just shows you that that's not a person that you want to be with. You might end up in the same pattern that you did before if you choose to move forward.

Nicole [00:34:32]: Yeah.

John [00:34:33]: So actually having rules and analyzing this stuff and being upfront about it when the relation, new relationship gets to that point will actually protect you from potentially repeating the same mistakes. But if you have these in place, you're more likely to grow and move forward and be with someone that you're more compatible with.

Nicole [00:34:51]: And I think you need to have like the, like, like, like the standards of, in a new relationship in order to get into an exclusive relationship. What is required?

John [00:35:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:01]: So men need to have the captain of the ship talk. We did an episode talking about that. Like the woman needs to be on board if you're going to get an exclusive relationship with her. She needs to understand that you're going to be the man in this relationship. You're going to be the authority in their relationship. That needs to be understood from the get go because it will avoid problems later on. As a woman, you probably need to have the gate that I'm not going to get into a relationship with a man I don't trust. I wouldn't trust to be the captain of the ship. Right. That like he needs to prove himself in these areas before I would get into an exclusive relationship with him. Right. I need to see his temper, need to see these things, how he handles certain Situations before I'm gonna commit myself to him. But I think having those standards coming in is super important because you probably didn't have them before. Right. That's why you got into this. Because a lot of that stuff, just like you said about the rules of relationship, by setting all of this stuff up front, you create an environment where you're gonna be more successful or where the person is gonna opt out. Right. Because you're also training a person on how to relate to you. And what you accept is what you get. And so you have to train the other person and it goes vice versa. But that happens by what standards you set. And when you set boundaries and you say, okay, this is not acceptable, and then that person can either exit or they're gonna comply, and so you're both gonna make these steps. But I think if you're not thinking about these things logically, and usually you're not. Right. When you get into a relationship, they just sort of happen. But after getting out of one is a good time to actually write this stuff down and be like, okay, these are the things that I need to make sure happen. And it doesn't have to be like a checklist of they need to be this tall and have this and that or be this. It can be more of a. Like, these are the guidelines and things that I'll tolerate that I need the relationship to be, not necessarily even the person. Right. Like, you can have some guidelines on the person, but sometimes you don't control who you get attracted to or you fall in love with. Right. But you can control what the relationship is, and those are the things that you need to define and know up front so you know what kind of relationship you're gonna create. Just like if you're gonna create anything, if you're gonna build a house, you wouldn't just start. Yeah. You wouldn't start just nailing two by fours together. You'd know what you're trying to create. How many rooms is it? What kind of relationship are you trying to create? Trying to create a better than perfect relationship or a whack one, you know?

John [00:37:39]: True. Well, I will add to maybe one more thing I was trying really hard not to forget. Oh. To like the list of things that we mentioned. I think it's also important to assess whether you and your partner. Like, I would do it for both of you guys, had a growth or fixed mindset.

Nicole [00:37:56]: Oh, yeah.

John [00:37:57]: Because I will forever die on the hill. That if you are a growth mindset person with a fixed mindset person, it will not Work.

Nicole [00:38:03]: Yeah.

John [00:38:04]: And then maybe, too, though, you were growth mindset before, but then in this relationship, you became more fixed mindset. That's possible too, but you just have. I think that's also very important to try to analyze because that also will help you figure out some of the other things as well. Like the other aspects that we talked about from a more, like, easier, like, place to realize. Like, did this person just not want to change their ways? Did I just not want to change my ways? But I should have, like, been more open to, like, hearing what the growth mindset person had to say. So I don't know. I just think that if either person is a growth mindset person with a fixed mindset, if there's that dynamic in the relationship, it's never going to work.

Nicole [00:38:56]: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you should be growth mindset.

John [00:38:59]: You should be.

Nicole [00:39:00]: Because fixed mindset, you're going to have

John [00:39:01]: problems either way, but you might as well go for another fixed mindset person. So you both can be like, I don't care.

Nicole [00:39:07]: But you need to identify it so that you can see. I mean, you can see where your mindset is fixed, but you can also see where if you're in a relationship with someone who's a fixed mindset, that's not gonna. It's not gonna work.

John [00:39:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:20]: Right. Or it'll work in the short term, but you have to be able to grow together.

John [00:39:24]: Right.

Nicole [00:39:24]: Like, our relationship would not work if we didn't grow together. We've been through a lot of changes in our lives, and we've grown together through those changes.

John [00:39:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:35]: Right. If one of us was just fixed on how we were and staying the same, then we'd be left in the dust. Yeah. It'd be a problem. So.

John [00:39:42]: Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:44]: Yeah. I'm trying to think what else I would say about the transition, I guess how, you know, you're ready to move on. I mean, we kind of covered parts of that, but I would say that you've gone. No contact.

John [00:40:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:01]: For at least 30 days. Probably more than that, but at least 30 days.

John [00:40:06]: Yeah. least a month.

Nicole [00:40:08]: You have a new life established that you're comfortable with.

John [00:40:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:15]: That you're. That has become the norm for you. You have made some kind of a list of the things that you're looking for in another in your next relationship. So you know what they are. And you've identified the reason why the previous relationship failed and have done what growth you can to fix it on your end in the future. And you. Well, I mean, if You've gotten the. No contact, then your feelings about the. That your ex should be resolved. Right. If you've done.

John [00:40:50]: I wouldn't assume that, but.

Nicole [00:40:53]: Yeah, you can't assume it, but that. That should be the other thing. Yeah.

John [00:40:58]: That definitely, I feel like, has to be.

Nicole [00:41:01]: Yeah.

John [00:41:01]: No feeling. Romantic feelings left.

Nicole [00:41:04]: Yeah. I think that that would.

John [00:41:05]: Even friendship, like you said.

Nicole [00:41:06]: Yeah. Would make you ready for the. To move on to another relationship.

John [00:41:11]: Yeah. I would agree with that. And I think, like, again, like, I wouldn't put a time on it because when you meet the time, if. Or when the time comes and you haven't, you don't feel ready, you might beat yourself up and then it might cost you even more time. So I think just by focusing on maybe like you said, like, checking these things off, that you'll know if you're ready or not. Like, I do believe we all have the ability to trust our intuition.

Nicole [00:41:42]: Yeah.

John [00:41:43]: If you don't feel ready, you're not ready. But if you feel like you've done a lot of the stuff that we've talked about and you are ready to move forward, I don't think there's any problem with that. Like, and I don't think anybody should judge anyone for how fast or how slow they move in regards to this.

Nicole [00:42:03]: I agree. I think we covered it. Unless you got something else. All right, well, we still have nothing for. That's. That's good. Yeah. All right, well, that's it for this week. You can follow us online@betterthanperfectpod.com. check out the website, you can subscribe there if you want to get emails when new episodes get published on there. We've got show notes and links and everything. Or send us an email@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com if you've got a question. See you next week.

John [00:00:00]: Social media and dating apps have made it so women have more access to men and men have more access to women. Women have higher standards than men in attractiveness. So that means the top guys on Instagram, dating app, whatever, will get a lot of women that are attracted to them. So then those guys have all these women, so they don't want to commit to any of them. And so these women are batting above their league, right? They're batting above their level. They wouldn't be able to lock down a guy of that caliber with the level that they are. So they set their standards that. Because they don't want to believe what's actually going on. And then men are upset because they don't have any women and they're all going to the top. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect. We stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:01:01]: That's right. And last week it was about the ladies, but today it's about men checking

John [00:01:08]: out of the dating market, men opting

Nicole [00:01:10]: out, which I swear we've already done. But I don't know.

John [00:01:13]: I mean, it's a topic that keeps on coming up. It's the, you know. You know, so it's. It's in the popular zeitgeist, I guess. Is that. Is that the proper way to use that word? I don't even.

Nicole [00:01:25]: I don't know.

John [00:01:25]: I think zeitgeist.

Nicole [00:01:26]: Define that. Define that word.

John [00:01:28]: I think it's like the culture. Like, what's the norms of society at a given time. If, you know, I have to ask Alexa, but Alexa. You trust Alexa to define things. I mean, the new smart one, sort of.

Nicole [00:01:45]: She doesn't seem much smarter, but she does give some side comments now. But.

John [00:01:49]: Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, I think the thing is that, you know, well, it kind of relates to what we talked about last week, which was women decentering men like this kind of sort of. And also, like, okay, the bear versus man thing, right? Like, all of this kind of stuff has gotten to a point where I think a lot of men feel like, why try? Yeah, like, I'm just gonna be labeled the villain no matter what. And so women don't like me. They don't. So why am I doing all this work? Like, let me just. I'll just live my life and just eat Cheetos and play video games or whatever it is, you know? Like, I'll just pursue the other things in life and forget about women. Right. But we've been through this cycle before, right? Because the whole mgtow thing and that was the extreme version of this. But it's all of these things that started in this microcosm, I think, in the whole, you know, the red pill space have become mainstream now, right?

Nicole [00:02:55]: Oh, for sure.

John [00:02:55]: Andrew Tate kind of broke the beachhead on that. And then all of this stuff became mainstream and unfortunately, it's infiltrated all the way down to, like, all the kids on social media are now mogging people. Look, maxing with their. Yeah, look. Smacksing and mogging people and chads and. And all of this stuff, you know,

Nicole [00:03:17]: and so unfortunately, they're mogging people.

John [00:03:19]: Yeah, I know what it means to

Nicole [00:03:21]: mog someone steal their girl.

John [00:03:23]: No, it means to like that. Actually, you know what's funny is that's actually what it used to mean.

Nicole [00:03:29]: It doesn't mean that anymore.

John [00:03:31]: No, it means to, like, out be attractive.

Nicole [00:03:34]: Out chad somewhat.

John [00:03:36]: Yeah, to out chad. To have the better jawline. To like, to mog them.

Nicole [00:03:40]: I mean, when kids started to give them. There's even an app or whatever. I was like, this is not good for society.

John [00:03:45]: There's even like a MOG app where, you know, that Omegle app, that old, like, where people would randomly. You randomly connect with people.

Nicole [00:03:53]: Like video chat.

John [00:03:54]: Yeah, but you randomly connect with people and try to mog them. It analyzes your face and sees if your face is more attractive than their face.

Nicole [00:04:02]: That's terrifying.

John [00:04:02]: Yeah, that is.

Nicole [00:04:04]: I mean, I do think also the looks stuff is also making guys not want to try either.

John [00:04:11]: Oh, yeah, for sure. 100%.

Nicole [00:04:13]: Like, I think, like, yes, probably most of it is the same sort of stuff like we talked about with the decentering men with women, is that. I think the majority of it is that, like, men get such a bad rap that they don't even want to try. But also now you have other men calling other men ugly, Right. And, like, this looks maxing thing, they definitely don't. Now they also don't want to try because, like, women already hate them and they're ugly, according to this looks maxing thing, Right? Yeah. Why? Why even go out there? But at the same time, I do want to say that I think at least half of these people never even try, though.

John [00:04:53]: Yeah, exactly, that's.

Nicole [00:04:55]: And so their whole experience is just based on online mumbo jumbo. Because honestly, if you're not online, right. Women aren't really, like, hating men in public. Like, Women are still pretty, you know, like, cordial with anyone in public.

John [00:05:12]: It's just.

Nicole [00:05:13]: It's mostly online, which is where everyone goes to, like, talk their smack and, like, feel safe behind their keyboard.

John [00:05:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:20]: So. And then also, you don't have someone in the grocery store being like, I just mogged you because I'm more attractive than you. Like, good luck with your vegetables. You know what I mean? Like, people aren't doing this stuff in real life. So. So, like, also, if you're that affected by it, like, get off the Internet.

John [00:05:38]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:38]: Like, at least, like, limit your Internet usage. Because a majority of the stuff, even like the woman versus bear stuff, that's all like, online.

John [00:05:47]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:47]: Mumbo jumbo. I mean, even, like, looks maxing. Like, now there's everything maxing. Like, everybody's adding maxing to everything. Like, we're so chronically online Pepsi maxing. That like. Yeah, exactly. It's like you. You just add it. Like, sleep maxing. Like, we just got a sleep mattress.

John [00:06:05]: Oh, we're sleep maxing. We're hardcore sleep maxing. We're sleep maxers. So, like, we gotta eight sleep.

Nicole [00:06:11]: We're. We're literally frying our brains.

John [00:06:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:14]: And it's not helping the dating situation, but. And again, like, men are online and then they're like, why even try? Like, I get it. Like, if women hate you, if everything you read is like, women being like, I would choose the bearer. Which, like, as a woman. I don't fully admit that I agree, but I. With some men, like Ted Bundy. Sure.

John [00:06:39]: Okay. Yeah. But you have to have the full scenario. It'd be like, you're out in the middle of the forest, no one's around. Right. Would you rather encounter a bear on the trail or a man?

Nicole [00:06:53]: A man. Because you can, like, manipulate them.

John [00:06:56]: Yeah. Yeah, Right. Like, I mean, yes.

Nicole [00:06:58]: Even if they're gonna kill you, you could still probably outmanipulate. Right. We watch enough, like, True Crime at this point as women, like, we could. We could find a way out, but

John [00:07:06]: the average man is not going to kill you or do something. Like, there are some. Right. And a percentage, even if it's a.

Nicole [00:07:13]: And honestly, if I'm being honest, I've seen a lot of women killing people lately.

John [00:07:17]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:17]: More than normal.

John [00:07:18]: That's been a lot.

Nicole [00:07:19]: So, like, women, we're not doing. We're. The men are going to start picking the bear. And I don't blame them either because I've seen a lot of stories about women killing their entire families now. Like, what the hell is going on? But we won't get into that. I do think it's the hopelessness of like everyone feeling hopeless, but because it's

John [00:07:40]: not based in reality. Because even the women that are talking the shit online on TikTok have never

Nicole [00:07:48]: seen a bear in real life.

John [00:07:50]: I wasn't going to go with the bear. Yeah, they have. Yeah. If they saw a bear in real life, they, they'd be like, I wish there was a man here that the

Nicole [00:07:57]: bear could eat and I could run away.

John [00:07:58]: Exactly. Yeah. You'd be like, yeah, if you saw a bear in real life on a freaking trail, a big ass bear, you would be like, I wish there was someone else there and I wish that was a man instead of a bear, I promise you. But I was talking about just like even on TikTok, even with the decentermen and saying all this stuff, a lot of these women talk a big game online, but in reality, are they actually dating? Are they actually. No, some of them are sabotaging their relationships for sure because they're very stuck in this feminist agenda and man hating agenda. But what I'm saying is that you're seeing that as a man and you're getting an unrealistic picture of what's out there in the world. Right. Just like the same happens where men get an unrealistic picture and they think all women are thoughts and all hoes and you know, or only want like

Nicole [00:08:53]: for everybody, super hot, successful men.

John [00:08:58]: Yeah. Yeah. And so. But men are getting this unrealistic view of how much women hate men and on how ugly they are. Right. And how much looks matter. Right. Because there's all of these things. Because it's so much easier to make some content that shows that this alpha looking Chad guy, he goes on a dating app and he tells women, I want to break your fingers or whatever. And they're like, oh, that's hot. Or whatever. I don't know, I'm being extreme. It's not that extreme. Or like I'm a criminal and I was a pedophile or whatever. But. Oh, it doesn't matter. I don't care what you did in the past. Those are real things. But. But that content will go viral, right? And because people want to watch that, it's not based in reality. Because if you create, let's say, a Tinder profile and you have a model guy that women are attracted to and you have him message 500 women, and to all of them you say you're a pedophile. Yeah. A couple of them will Respond positively. And then you screenshot that one, and then you Forget all the 401 that are like, I don't care how hot you are, you're a sicko. Like, why would you message me and block. Right. You ignore that stuff. But what I'm saying is that they're getting unrealistic views right now. There is some truth to it in the sense that women are saying these things, women are projecting some things, but

Nicole [00:10:31]: there are men doing the crappy things that women are saying too. So you can't really use that as an example. But I also just want to add before we get too far away from it.

John [00:10:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:40]: That even, like, men acting like they can't get women unless they're successful is not true right now, if women could pick, would they pick, like, an attractive, successful man who is a provider and is wonderful and. But then, like, stands up for himself?

John [00:11:01]: Right?

Nicole [00:11:01]: Yeah.

John [00:11:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:03]: But even men saying this stuff. No. Men that are not successful, that are in relationships and married.

John [00:11:09]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:10]: They know men that are not attractive that are in relationships and married. Like, so like you said, they're going based off of these viral things that are not even the majority. Just like women are going off of viral things that are not the majority.

John [00:11:25]: And I don't understand, though. Like, okay, if men are like, women. Men are attracted to women who are young and hot, then why is there a problem if women are attracted to men who are successful, like, biologically? I'm not saying that's the only. Right.

Nicole [00:11:44]: It's not.

John [00:11:44]: But I'm just saying you can't be like, oh, yeah, it's obvious that men like women with big boobs that are hot and young.

Nicole [00:11:51]: Right. And then you're like, how dare you judge me for how much I make and how tall I am and what I look like?

John [00:11:59]: Right. It doesn't make any difference sense to me. Right. That's why I'm like, it's not as extreme. Right. As people paint it to be.

Nicole [00:12:07]: Right?

John [00:12:07]: Right. I mean, in this world, it's become more extreme because of social media, because of Instagram, because women can't get access to professional sports player for a night or whatever. They'll fly her mouth.

Nicole [00:12:21]: But the men are also allowing that.

John [00:12:22]: Right? Right.

Nicole [00:12:23]: So how can you blame her if he's like, sure, yeah, come over.

John [00:12:27]: Like, yeah, but it's different men. That's why, like, it's like, you know, like, the guys that are allowing it are not the ones that are complaining.

Nicole [00:12:34]: Yeah, but they're screwing over other guys.

John [00:12:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:37]: They're screwing over Other guys, the guys that are being screwed over aren't holding these men accountable, they're holding the women accountable. But, like, if she couldn't go home with that guy.

John [00:12:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:12:47]: She would probably lower her standards, right?

John [00:12:48]: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. That's where we always come to the same thing.

Nicole [00:12:54]: I know we've had this conversation, but

John [00:12:56]: I mean, because it's the same. Because the dynamic that's happening is exactly that. It's the same cycle. It's that men who. It's that social media and dating apps have made it so women have more access to men and men have more access to women. And women have higher standards than men in attractiveness. Right. And like, in what men, they'll sleep with, biologically sleep with, let's say.

Nicole [00:13:23]: Well, actually, I think men have a very low standard of what they would sleep with.

John [00:13:26]: Exactly. Men have. That's what I'm saying. Men have. Women have a higher. Did I say men? I said women.

Nicole [00:13:30]: No, maybe I got it wrong.

John [00:13:32]: Women have a higher standard. So that means that the top guys on Instagram, dating app, whatever, successful in life, will get a lot of women that are attracted to them. Right?

Nicole [00:13:45]: But also, like you said, if he said something weird, a lot of women would also be like, no, like, even your attractiveness is not worth it.

John [00:13:52]: But some would because women send letters to serial killers in prison. You know, it's like there's some weird thing about that. But my point is that, like, it's the cycle. So then those guys have all these women, so they don't want to commit to any of them. And so these women are batting above their league. Right? They're batting above their level. They wouldn't be able to lock down a guy of that caliber with the level that they are, but they think they can. So they set their standards to that because they don't wanna believe what's actually going on. And why would you? Right? And then that causes the cycle to repeat. So then those women have higher standards, which means that less men are acceptable to them, which means men are upset because they don't have any women and they're all going to the top. And so the cycle continues and women get frustrated with the dating market because they're like, there's no good men and the men at the top are the only ones winning. That's the only. The women aren't winning.

Nicole [00:14:47]: Because if you think about it, only

John [00:14:48]: the men's at the top are winning.

Nicole [00:14:49]: There are no good men in women's perception of this. Right. Because the ones that aren't getting anything are pissed. And they're not blaming the men, they're blaming the women.

John [00:14:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:59]: So they're pissed at women. And then if they do get one of the guys at the top, he doesn't want to settle down, so she's pissed at him.

John [00:15:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:05]: And then, like, if she happens to find one rare needle and a haystack in between those two things.

John [00:15:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:14]: Then she might find a husband. But the majority is either the guys that are pissed at women because they're not getting any.

John [00:15:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:23]: And so what woman's going to want to be with a man that hates women?

John [00:15:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:27]: And then the ones that are getting whatever they want so they're not settling down, which women think that they can lock down, but then waste all this time trying to. And then they realize they can't.

John [00:15:39]: Or.

Nicole [00:15:39]: Or maybe they are actually dating a guy for years, but he doesn't want to get married because he thinks something else is better out there. Whatever his excuses.

John [00:15:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:48]: So she just wasted all this time on this person. And so, like, that's where the confusion is.

John [00:15:54]: Yeah. And I wish we had a solution for it, but we don't. That's like, there is a solution. I mean, there's like, be a man. Yeah. Yeah. The best solution for a man is to be in the top 20%, which isn't that hard to do because most guys aren't even trying. You know what I mean? Like, it really isn't that hard to be in the top to beat four other men, to be one out of five to be top 20%. It's like half of them aren't even trying. They're not even trying. They've already checked out, which is good for you. Right. So you only have to beat be better than 50% of the ones that are trying, probably. Like, that's solution for the men, unfortunately. Which actually, you see, men are in a better spot because they can actually solve the problem.

Nicole [00:16:34]: Yeah, we've talked about this before.

John [00:16:36]: Women can't really solve their problem. Like, the only thing they can do is get a boob job, is be young and hot and utilize that to get the best man that they can. But make an accurate evaluation of what man that they can get and not aim too high and just be used Right. To hold. Which the only way you can do that is by holding out sex, because then you'll find out whether you could actually get the guy or not. Because if the guy just doesn't want to have anything to do with you if you're not gonna have sex with him, then he's not of the level that you can get. Right. So I think that's the only. But it's not a great solution. It's kind of a fucked up society that we're living in.

Nicole [00:17:17]: No, it is. It's just getting worse.

John [00:17:19]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:20]: Cause I don't feel like even when I was in my early 20s that men and women hated each other like they do now.

John [00:17:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:28]: And I don't think it's going to get better. I think that these men that are mad.

John [00:17:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:33]: And not even trying, like you said, are just going to turn to AI or robots or. Yeah, whatever. I mean, we're already heading in that direction. And again, like without getting too morbid. That's why I think us as humanity are going to eventually. Because like men don't want to put in the effort. Let's be real here.

John [00:17:53]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:54]: They don't want to put in the effort.

John [00:17:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:56]: To be a man.

John [00:17:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:59]: That would attract a woman because they think it's easy. Things like, oh, well, I should have been born attractive. I'm not, I'm never going to amount to anything. Some women aren't young and hot ever. Yeah, when they're young, they're not hot.

John [00:18:11]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:12]: You know what I mean? Like they still go about their lives. They still like look for a partner.

John [00:18:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:17]: Like, so there's no excuse. Like if you're like, oh, I don't have the whatever. Like men focus. Men need to realize they focus nowadays I would say potentially even more about how they look than women do.

John [00:18:33]: For sure. Well, women have been look smacking for a long time.

Nicole [00:18:36]: Oh yeah.

John [00:18:37]: Hair extensions, makeup, eyelash extensions, filler. You know, all the things, all the things women have been look smacking for. Now men are joining the looks maxing world. But women have just. This is the default for women. Most women are look smacking just by default. That's what they learned.

Nicole [00:18:53]: It's honestly as a woman personally unattractive for a man to look smacks that hard. Like you would be more attractive if you owned how you looked and you grew your confidence.

John [00:19:05]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:19:06]: Than if you hit your jaw with a hammer or whatever the heck people are doing.

John [00:19:11]: You're zygote, you got, I don't know, chiseled the zygote.

Nicole [00:19:15]: I don't even, I'm upset that you even know that that's where they're hitting it at. That's my point is like if you're contemplating like plastic surgery as a man or all things, like again, I'm also saying this as a woman who wouldn't personally get plastic surgery. So if a man got plastic surgery. Absolutely not. And again, it's probably cuz women getting it is more normalized.

John [00:19:40]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:40]: But if you care more about. I, I don't know, I've always been like, if you as a man care about your looks more than I care about my looks as a woman.

John [00:19:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:48]: Instantly unattractive.

John [00:19:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:50]: Because it's not masculine and manly to be so vain and so concerned with how you look. It's feminine.

John [00:19:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:58]: Like it's actually really.

John [00:19:59]: Gaston is insulted. You have insulted Gaston.

Nicole [00:20:02]: But like, it's true if you really think about it and if men really think about it, it's feminine to be that concerned with your looks.

John [00:20:11]: It is. Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:11]: And it is unattractive.

John [00:20:14]: You know who's concerned with their. What guys are concerned with their looks that much? Who? Gay guys.

Nicole [00:20:19]: Well, but not even, I feel like not even gay guys are that concerned.

John [00:20:22]: That's true. Yeah. But I'm just saying, like, that's why you're right, like you're, you're on the spot. Right. I mean, I don't think, I think gay guys will agree with me that they're very concerned with their looks. They're more feminine. Sure.

Nicole [00:20:30]: Right. But like, that's what I'm trying to say is like, it's women. Again, I can't speak for all women.

John [00:20:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:40]: But I think if women were allowed to be in their feminine and were able to be in their feminine more, they would say that they want more masculine men. For sure. A man who's more concerned about his looks than she is is feminine.

John [00:20:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:55]: Like, and how can you feel safe if your man is masculine sometimes but super feminine and being like, oh, I need, I need plastic surgery, like, I don't look good. You know what I mean? Like, this is an extreme version, but like, I think men need to realize because they're going too far down this looks maxing thing.

John [00:21:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:16]: That like you're actually making yourself more unattractive by being so concerned with how attractive you're appearing to women. Like you're actually repelling women.

John [00:21:26]: Right, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:27]: You know what I mean? Like it actually is doing the opposite of what you think it is.

John [00:21:32]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's because a lot of guys think that. That. Well, because most, a lot of guys experience today in dating is online.

Nicole [00:21:44]: Right.

John [00:21:44]: It's not in person. It's not going into a club or a bar or a grocery store and meeting women there.

Nicole [00:21:52]: That's true.

John [00:21:52]: Right. And so if your experience is only online, then what is the only thing that matters online that's true is your looks. And what kind of car do you have in the picture that is on your dating profile? Right. Like your looks and lifestyle. That's what is gonna make the difference in online. Because women have such a broad selection of men online that they're gonna, of course, choose the things that there's more men on dating apps than women. Right. But in reality, in real life, you don't have to be that attractive. You don't have to. You just have to be able to be funny and talk and be confident and make a woman feel attractive and make her feel like she's having a

Nicole [00:22:34]: good time and safe and secure.

John [00:22:36]: Yeah. And that's what. But. But so many men today aren't going out into the world and experiencing women that they're just seeing the online, you know, dating apps and all this stuff, and that's what's causing that.

Nicole [00:22:49]: That's true.

John [00:22:50]: So in that point, like, it does make sense. Like, if you're like, oh, shit, I can't compete in this space, then checking out, and then everyone hates me anyway, so.

Nicole [00:22:57]: But don't check out, like. And don't do anything.

John [00:23:00]: No, no.

Nicole [00:23:01]: Go up to people at the grocery store.

John [00:23:03]: Yeah. Like, you got to figure it out.

Nicole [00:23:04]: Practice approaching people in real life. Like, I get being frustrated. I get that it's more looks focused on online dating. I get that.

John [00:23:13]: We both know.

Nicole [00:23:13]: But I don't think it's fine. Like, I don't think it's fine to just be like, I give up.

John [00:23:17]: We both know a guy. I'm doing this again, that is somewhat short. It's not the ethnicity that most women would prefer. And he has had a lot of success with women over his life. And we know this guy very well, and we have seen him operate. And if this guy can pull it off. I'm just saying.

Nicole [00:23:39]: But see, the guys act like, well, that's rare. But no, that's what confidence is. That's what women actually want. Like, when you go too far in the. Like, I want to look pretty, they don't want to look pretty. But I'm just saying it. You know what I mean? Like, they want to look pretty. I want to look like a model. You know, I don't make enough money. No one's gonna like me, and I don't look like a model. And I don't. Like. Like you said, we've already done episodes where it's like, men have more Control over how attractive they can be. Because their attractiveness is not nearly based as much on things that they can't control, like youth and beauty. Like, again, that's. Women, for a long time have been trying to optimize their beauty.

John [00:24:26]: That makes sense, right? Exactly.

Nicole [00:24:27]: Because they know that there's very limited things that they can, like, appease in a man. Like, I'm not. And a men should not. Honestly, I don't even like putting the focus on that either, because.

John [00:24:39]: No, no, it's. Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:41]: If you marry a woman just for how she looks, that's gonna end in disaster anyway. Like, men have to also find women with substance.

John [00:24:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:49]: Like, you can't have a deep, meaningful relationship if it's just based on that she's young and hot. Even if that's what men want the most. But like you said, even if women want the most. Yeah. A guy that's attractive and is a man and, like, is successful, that doesn't mean that she can't find the man of her dreams that doesn't have all those things.

John [00:25:10]: Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:12]: Like, that's just like, the ideal, and everyone has the ideal. Like, a man's ideal is young, hot woman.

John [00:25:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:20]: Who. I don't know what else. Young, hot woman. That's my caveman voice.

John [00:25:26]: With big boobs and big butt.

Nicole [00:25:28]: Right. With big butt.

John [00:25:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:29]: And. Yes. And then women would probably pick what I just said. So it's like. But that doesn't mean that someone can't be completely happy and fulfilled. Because honestly.

John [00:25:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:43]: If we're being honest and we tend to go from, like, a spiritual place anyway.

John [00:25:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:48]: Who you are trumps how you look and any of the. How young you are, what money you make, whatever, Any day. Because right now, if you somehow your muscles deflated and you lost your job, I would still love you just as much because I love you for who you are as a person.

John [00:26:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:09]: And that's really what it has to be.

John [00:26:11]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:12]: And so if these guys also focus on being a good person, a good man, and women focus on being a good woman and a good person, they'd

John [00:26:22]: have a lot more success even to speak to that, to the guys that lose their job and lose their women afterwards, their woman afterwards, and then they're like, oh, then she left me. I lost my job. And then she left. Like, I fell on hard times. She left me. Well, it's more likely that losing that job changed the person you are. You know, I mean, like, your confidence, your identity changed, and then she became less attracted to that.

Nicole [00:26:47]: But there's also a statistic that men are more likely to leave women when they become more successful. No, ill like cancer or they're dying. Like men are more likely to leave the situation than women are.

John [00:27:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:01]: So it's like it happens. I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

John [00:27:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:06]: But it's also like you can't like based your whole life off of like the what ifs. And I feel like a lot of these guys, especially the chronically online ones, are like, oh, this happened to some, somebody. I'm not going to do that. Like.

John [00:27:20]: Yeah, well, I always tell guys too. Like I always used to say when I was coaching them or when I was in some of the black pill places in there, I'd be like, okay. Because they're all preaching gloom and doom and like, oh, women don't like me, blah, blah, blah. I, I tried everything. It doesn't work. Pickup doesn't work. All this stuff doesn't work. And I'm like, okay, lift up your shirt. Like, let me see your six pack abs. And then I'm like, okay, if you don't have six pack abs, then I can't.

Nicole [00:27:48]: Then you haven't tried everything.

John [00:27:49]: Yeah. You haven't been trying that hard. Right. Like you either don't want it bad enough, you just rather complain about it, or you haven't been trying that hard. Right. I'm not saying it's easy.

Nicole [00:27:58]: Do you think a six pack is like that much of a woman grabber?

John [00:28:02]: No, no, it's not. It's not that much of a woman grabber. It's a gay guy grabber for sure. But I mean it definitely helps. Right, but what I'm saying is it illustrates the effort that you've put in. Right. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a six pack. And that's the whole point is that like if you're at your end of your rope, like desperation, right. Then have you actually really tried everything? Because if you show me a guy and he lifts up a shirt and he's like, yeah, I have six pack abs. I've been working. I mean it's a little easier to get now with Tirizepatide and Mounjaro and Ozempic and all that stuff. But before then, let's say then you've put in a lot of work. But my point in saying this is just simply this is that I have never encountered a guy that bitch and complained about women and about not being attractive that picked up his shirt and had six pack abs. Had anywhere close to that because he hasn't put in the work. Not to say that if you have six pack abs, that means you instantly have women. I'm just saying that you're just using

Nicole [00:29:06]: it as a way to measure.

John [00:29:08]: Yeah, you give up before you've actually tried hard enough to make. If you tried that level of hard and you still haven't, then I have some empathy for you. Like, okay, buddy, but you haven't tried as hard as you could. You know, it's like what it takes to actually succeed is way harder than what most people think. Like, I think a lot of problem why guys are checking out too is they think it'll be easier than it is. When I was coaching guys and coaching them on pickup, I remember telling guys like, oh, I did a video once and I was like, yeah, I mean you're probably gonna have to talk to 300 women before you get a successful result. And they're like, what? That's crazy. That shouldn't be, it shouldn't have to be that hard. It's ridiculous. It's crazy. Like this is, there are some, obviously you're not attractive if that's the case. It's not. Juice isn't worth the squeeze. And I'm like, that's just like, you're just underestimating. You think it should be easier than it is, but that's what it takes. If you're going out and you're going out to a bar or something. This is for guys. You talk to probably like 20 women in a night and maybe, maybe, maybe one of them will go home with you if that's what you're looking for. But maybe like a few of them, maybe three or four of them will give you a phone number. Maybe you're gonna get one date out of talking to 20 women. But that's just how it goes. That's just par for the course. And maybe if you're a really, really good looking guy, then you'll have to talk to 15 instead of 20. Like it's not gonna change it that much. Like they think it'll be like, oh, a really good looking guy would just talk to three women. It's not going to happen like that. That's not how it actually works. So getting healthily grounded in reality.

Nicole [00:30:48]: Yeah, they need to get rid of expectations.

John [00:30:50]: It sounds like to realize it takes more effort than you think for all of the things in life to build a business, to be successful, to build muscle, all of these things. That the reason why you're unhappy is because you think you want the easy way and you think that it should be easier than it is. But when you set the expectations realistically right. Then you know, then you're not disappointed. Then you don't give up so easily. But a lot of men are giving up because they have a picture that it should be way easier than it is and it's not.

Nicole [00:31:21]: Right. And then they make excuses for why. Like you said. All I heard when you said the 300 thing was all these excuses. Oh, it should be easier than that. Why does it have to be like that? I'm not attractive if it takes that many.

John [00:31:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:34]: That's just exhausting. Like, you're not ever even living your life if you're just giving up and trying to find excuses before you even try. And you can't even really try and, like, talk to three people and be like, it didn't work for me.

John [00:31:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:48]: Like, that's not really trying. Yeah. Now if you talk to like 300 people, like, for six months, like, each time you went out or whatever.

John [00:31:58]: Sure.

Nicole [00:31:58]: Or like, you know, you got to that. Or you went. Got talked to 600 people and it wasn't working. Sure. But then you would talk and you'd be like, okay, well, maybe there's something else going on. Like, you would focus on some other aspect that's maybe off. Like, just giving up is never gonna get you what you want in life. And I don't understand where men don't realize this, because the thing is, they want women. But again, just like we talked about with the women and the decentering men, how are you expecting to get a woman when you think so poorly of women?

John [00:32:30]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:32:31]: And like you said, like, a woman is more likely to get a man. That's just like a people pleaser.

John [00:32:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:32:37]: But a man is not going to get a woman that talks crap about men very easily. I mean, women very easily.

John [00:32:43]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:32:44]: Like, you rarely see that.

John [00:32:46]: Yeah, yeah. And again, it's the same thing. If you're looking for that as men, that's what you're going to find. You're going to find the kind of women that. It validates your opinion about women. Right. But if you're looking for the opposite, then you're gonna find that if you have a positive mindset about it, then you're gonna find more success and more results.

Nicole [00:33:09]: Well, men have to think about it this way too. And like, I mean, they might make excuses for this as well, too. But I'm gonna say it like, it does have to be harder as a Man to have a woman choose you or you choose a woman.

John [00:33:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:23]: Because if a woman is going to center her life around you, Right. And choose you.

John [00:33:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:31]: She has to feel like you're safe and that she really knows you and that you're capable of being a man or being the man that she needs.

John [00:33:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:41]: Because it's too risky.

John [00:33:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:43]: Like, you as a man are stronger than her. You have sometimes more access to things that women don't have. So, like, it is more of a detriment. And again, like, the bear versus man thing, like, men are more likely to kill people, men and women in general. So, like, it is a lot more on the line for women to pick the right man than for the man to pick the right woman. And so, yeah, a woman might be more selective or like, not give you the time of day or be a little, like, wishy washy. And you shouldn't try to take that personally as much as you can. I mean, like, I still think that we can hear some of these things and, like, ask ourselves truthfully, like, do I need to work on this or do. Or was this just like a misalignment of two people together? But I think men need to realize that it's hard for them because a lot is on the line for women.

John [00:34:40]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:41]: And, like, maybe they can take things less personally if they realize that, like, maybe they just didn't align or whatever. Or if they're like, maybe this woman didn't feel safe around me, so maybe I need to, like, work on being a good guy who, like, you know, is kind but holds boundaries. You know what I mean? Like, instead of being like, oh, this is too hard. Like, if you understand the perspective a little bit more and don't think like, oh, women just want hot, successful men. Well, why do you think that women want more successful men? Like, that's more security financially. So if you understand this from the reason why, it's not because they're greedy or they just want to buy whatever they want.

John [00:35:26]: And even if it was, if that's what the fish that you're fishing for likes for bait, then that's what the fish like. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, not be like, okay, I guess you could be like, I don't want any fish. Then, like, okay, fine, but you can't change it. You can't shame.

Nicole [00:35:46]: You can't excuse it away.

John [00:35:48]: Yeah. Like, it is what it is, right? Like, so what? Like, what are you gonna do? You're either gonna adapt to the game or not. Or not play the game, which, I mean, a lot of guys are saying, I'm not gonna play the game, which is fine. But if you choose that path, then you're gonna just miss out with your

Nicole [00:36:03]: chest, like, choose it and be like, no, I'm not doing that. Not be like, blame it on women. You know what I mean? Like, if you don't want to do what is necessary, own that.

John [00:36:15]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:16]: Don't blame it on other people. But I mean, they probably still are. Cause if they make excuses about that stuff, then they're probably gonna blame other people.

John [00:36:23]: But so. But yeah, I mean, I guess the other aspect of it is, like, women are noticing that men are, like, not wanting to have relationships and date as well. And so.

Nicole [00:36:33]: But is that any different, though, than before?

John [00:36:37]: I think that's true. I think more men are, like I said, the red pill type of stuff has gone more mainstream. So more men are, like, anti women now.

Nicole [00:36:48]: But the funny thing is in all of this, to me is that it's gotten so bad. Right. That if you're a good man. Oh, you're instantly off the market. So actually, like, if you're a man, that's growth mindset and, like, wants to be in a relationship.

John [00:37:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:06]: The good thing is, is the market's so crappy because guys are taking themselves out of it.

John [00:37:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:11]: Or like, the top guys are still, like, messing around and, like, not wanting to settle down. That if you listen to this and you became a really good man, you could have any woman that you want. I know I've said that on other episodes. It's true.

John [00:37:26]: I agree.

Nicole [00:37:27]: Like, actually, if you're willing to put in the work, now's the best time. Because women are still going to want to start a family and be married.

John [00:37:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:37:36]: For the most part.

John [00:37:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:38]: She needs a man to do that.

John [00:37:40]: Yeah. For the. For the most part.

Nicole [00:37:42]: For the most part. But, like, someone wants to have a human.

John [00:37:45]: They claim that they don't. They claim that they don't, but they do.

Nicole [00:37:48]: I mean, she could go to, like, a sperm donation place.

John [00:37:50]: Like, it's.

Nicole [00:37:51]: But no woman wants to be a single mother unless she can't find a man.

John [00:37:55]: Even the women that say that they do online, they don't really want to. Like, they're just. They're also giving up and checking out, and that's why they're saying this stuff. Right.

Nicole [00:38:04]: Look, I even said if I didn't find a man by 35 or whatever, I would have had a kid on my own because I wanted to have a kid. And I Don't want to be based on a guy. So, like, I get it. But the thing is, luckily you came along. But. No, what I'm saying is, though, that ultimately a woman wants a good man, a real life human being.

John [00:38:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:24]: To spend the rest of her life with and start a family with. And so if you're seeing all these guys check out or all these guys, like, you know, not acting right, if you got your shit together.

John [00:38:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:37]: You'd have success. I'm not saying it'd be instantaneous, but women are still looking.

John [00:38:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:44]: And so you have a lot better chance than any of the other guys that come along. And plus, since the cream of the crops gotten so bad, you're gonna look even better.

John [00:38:53]: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And if all these guys are giving up, then.

Nicole [00:38:56]: Right, and you're not. Wow. You're, like, way ahead of them.

John [00:39:01]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:39:02]: So. Yeah.

John [00:39:05]: All right, well, I think that's. I think we're good. Unless you got more. You can.

Nicole [00:39:09]: No, I mean, I thought you would have had more because it's more towards.

John [00:39:13]: I mean, I feel like it's. It's. It's the same. Same stuff. Like, it's, you know, like you could take the point of saying, like. Of like, oh, it's so bad out there. And we did a little bit like, yeah, it is harsh. Women are kind of harsh to guys today. We talked about it last episode with the Decenter Men and the man versus Bear and all that stuff. That's true. Right. But, like, I don't like that. I don't like that. It's not helpful. It's victim mindset. Right. It's like. Cause if you focus on that, sure, there's truth to it. I don't deny it. But that's not the thing to focus on. Cause you can't change that.

Nicole [00:39:53]: I think, weirdly, it's the wrong way to do it, but I think women give men shit to try to toughen them up and be the men that they want them to be, but it just tears them down. I'm not saying it's the right way, but I think with a lot of this stuff, the way that women handle it and the way that women handle men sometimes, by being, like, mean to them, they want them to, like, step up and, like, stand up for themselves.

John [00:40:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:19]: And then when they don't, you know, then men just get more dejected. You know what I mean? Like, again, I don't think it's the right way to go about it.

John [00:40:27]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:27]: But you just talking about it made me think that like, maybe that's what they're trying to do. Because no matter what women say.

John [00:40:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:35]: And again, like, I was more on the, you know, feminist side sort of thing before we met. No matter what women really say, they want a man. A man that will step up and handle things and even tell her at times, no, we're not going to do this, or whatever, because that shows that he has boundaries, he has standards. He's going to do what needs to be done. And women respect that. And a woman cannot respect a man that doesn't have that ability.

John [00:41:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:08]: And so I guess the thing is, like, women have lost some respect for men because men don't respect themselves.

John [00:41:14]: Yeah. Well, we said about the thing in the last episode about men just letting women say decenter men and, like, they're in relationship, those women, and they're just okay with it. They're get on board with it.

Nicole [00:41:26]: Right.

John [00:41:26]: They let that happen.

Nicole [00:41:28]: Yeah. Because they don't have respect for themselves. That's the point exactly. Is like, if you started slandering women, I would be like, I respect you, but I would be like, you can't talk like that. Like, that's not acceptable. That's not cool. Like, how are we supposed to have a relationship if you think this about women?

John [00:41:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:47]: Like, I would have to stand up for that because I also respect myself as a woman. You know what I mean? And, like, if you're a man that has a girlfriend that is, like, all men suck, you don't respect yourself. And if you're, like, taking yourself out of the game before you even try, you don't respect yourself.

John [00:42:06]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:07]: You know, and so maybe you need to work on that. Like, you need to start having some boundaries in your life and, like, stand up for yourself and, you know, like.

John [00:42:17]: And it's not as bad as what, again, like, you're going off of other people's experience. A lot of guys, right. Have their own experience. And I get it. Yeah. Young guys hear all these horror stories and whatever, but. Or you have very limited experience and you got rejected one time, or that's why I'm saying that is harder than you think.

Nicole [00:42:33]: Yeah.

John [00:42:33]: But I mean, when I was out there and it wasn't that. That long ago, like five years or whatever, I didn't have any. I didn't feel like women were mean or horrible. Like, I felt like there was a lot of women that were just fine,

Nicole [00:42:46]: you know, like, the guys we're talking about listening, this will be like, venturing tall and jacked and successful.

John [00:42:52]: John. But does that change women, like, how they act in general? Maybe a little bit differently acting, but not in general. Like. Like. But I wasn't. I didn't have a predisposed idea that they were bad.

Nicole [00:43:06]: Right, right.

John [00:43:07]: Like, I didn't. I didn't.

Nicole [00:43:08]: And you should have.

John [00:43:10]: And I should have. Right?

Nicole [00:43:11]: You should. You. It would have made more sense that you would have.

John [00:43:14]: It would have. It would have made more sense. But I still did it. But I did. Yeah, I. Like. You know what I mean? And so that's what I'm saying is it's like you need to go and get your own experience.

Nicole [00:43:23]: Right. And get away from the excuses.

John [00:43:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:26]: If you want something, you have to make it happen.

John [00:43:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:29]: And it might take a lot of work.

John [00:43:30]: Yeah. That's it. And you just have to be willing to do it. That's fine.

Nicole [00:43:34]: Right. And we believe in you.

John [00:43:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:36]: It's possible.

John [00:43:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:39]: So.

John [00:43:40]: All right, well, we'll call that one no end segment. Yeah, no end segment for us.

Nicole [00:43:49]: Every time.

John [00:43:50]: I was thinking, though, one real quick thing, because I was thinking about from the last one when I was talking about. What also has helped me is trusting your intuition more.

Nicole [00:44:02]: You did say that the other day, which. Thank you for saying that.

John [00:44:08]: Yeah. And changing the way that I give guidance where I don't. Again, don't take it personally. Right. So it's like, because you had an issue with a friend thing that was going on, I won't go into the drama of it, but, you know, I think maybe in the past I would have, like. I don't want to say judged you. Judged me. Yeah. But maybe that, like, I don't want to really, because that carries too much of a negative connotation, but kind of, in a way. But I was just like, okay, here's my wisdom on this. And you can take it or you don't have to take it, but I'm not offended either way.

Nicole [00:44:46]: No, I did appreciate you talking it through because I also do value seeing all the sides. And I asked you sometimes, too, I'm like, am I being honest?

John [00:44:59]: But I was able to give you an honest. But I was able to give you an honest opinion without having my ego attached to it. Right. Whereas I think in the past, a lot of times, if I gave you that evaluation, my ego would be attached to it, and if you disagreed with it, then I would feel like, okay,

Nicole [00:45:14]: well, you're not offended.

John [00:45:15]: Right. But you're not listening to me here. Whether you think so or not or listen to my wisdom, it's still wisdom. And I know it's wise. Right, True. So you see what I'm saying. That has helped me a lot because I don't have to worry about, does someone actually think what I recognize. I recognize it. That's enough. And I can just be here. So I think that's been helpful to me in general. It just made it where there's less friction on my part because it's like, okay, I can tell you the thing. I don't have to be afraid to tell you the thing. And at the same time, I'm not just gonna be telling you the thing. And now my ego's involved in the thing. So.

Nicole [00:45:59]: Yeah, no, yeah. And I did appreciate your perspective, and I did take your advice, ultimately, from what you said. But I also did appreciate you saying that you trust my intuition more, because it does be right.

John [00:46:13]: Especially about blueberries.

Nicole [00:46:15]: Yeah, that's right.

John [00:46:18]: All right, that's it for this week. If you want to check us out, check us out online@betterthanperfectpod.com I did update the website, so the newest episodes are up there. And you can email us if you have a question@betterthenperfectpodcast Gmail.com. see you next time.