John: You have to be firm in what you believe. Your partner, your best friend, even your mom could say something. People that you feel are close to you could also maybe have ulterior motives. Some people might sabotage you. I say all this because when I got cheated on, the girl was my best friend. So, it's like, she was sitting there being like, "I can't believe you thought that I would do that to you." And I'm like, "But you did do that to me." So, it's like, beyond the perfect, we discovered through our flaws, we complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where each week, two imperfect people helping each other be better equals one better than perfect relationship. I did... I forgot to say plus, right? Uh, I messed that all up. Better Than Perfect podcast where two people help each other, two imperfect people helping each other be better equals one better than perfect relationship. Is there a plus in there or something? That is the plus equals or two... two. Yeah, welcome. Okay, yeah, well, so it's your turn to pick the topic.

Nicole: Yes. So, I guess we'll just pretend like we didn't just record the last episode. It can... well, they would have never known. Well, they actually would have known probably if they paid enough attention. Yeah, we're just getting in front of it. That's always a good strategy. So, we have to build up a little bit of a buffer here, you know, so we can go on our trip to Hawaii. So, my topic for this week is family and relationships, like how your family fits into your relationship or interacts with it and whatnot.

John: Yeah, so basically, how do you deal with difficult family, how should you introduce family, introducing family exactly. And I guess friends could fall into that category too. But we could start off with perhaps how do you introduce, and when do you introduce your significant other to your family?

Nicole: Well, normally, I would say give it a decent amount of time. Like again, I don't want to put specifics on because I know there's people watching this who are going to be like, "Alright, I have to wait so and so months before." But I would say, like, if you're really into each other and have gotten to know each other pretty well, in a month, I would say you could start with friends. In a month, ah, yeah. And then I would say within like 2 or 3 months, you could introduce your family. However, with you, it was not very long after because you like moved, and then we decided to move into a different apartment so you had an office space. And then I was like, "Oh well, my mom was planning to come, and she still thinks I live at the other apartment, so we're going to figure this out." So, you met my mom pretty quick.

John: Yeah, like luckily, my parents are very cool parents. So, I'm never like nervous about people meeting my parents or like back in the past, you know, I'm never like, "What's going to happen?" And I was like, "Oh, your mom is Paula Deen." Like, she has a country accent for sure. It's like, I was like, "Where did that come from? 'Cause you don't have any country accent at all." But then she definitely has a country accent. So, I was like, "Wow, she's..."

Nicole: Nicole's worked hard to not be. I definitely have. But yeah, so you met her pretty quickly. And then I think a few months later, again, my parents planned to come down, and this time my dad was coming. And I actually already committed to working a dance competition. So, I was in like Miami, Fort Lauderdale, doing a dance competition, and you picked my parents up from the airport and had dinner with them and all this stuff.

John: Yeah, I had to meet her 6'4" dad with lots of guns, like by myself. Look, he didn't bring any guns to Florida. You met him in Florida.

Nicole: I'm living with your daughter. This is our place where we live together.

John: You say that like when Sophia doesn't bring somebody home, you're not going to be that dad.

Nicole: No, but I mean, your guns are on full display all the time. But we had, I mean, it was fun. We had a good... We just started, we immediately took to each other, your dad and I, and just were just talking like... Like girls, my mom, she's like, "They haven't stopped." She was like, "I finished eating before them." My mom is the slowest eater ever, and when she texted me that she finished eating before you guys, I was like, "They haven't stopped talking." Like, that's the only... Well, I love your mom and dad. They're awesome. They're like, seriously, super awesome.

John: They'd be happy to hear.

Nicole: But I would say, though, that like, I wouldn't... I didn't introduce a lot of people to them. When I wasn't in a lot of serious relationships, and that's what it would take. But it... I do feel like you should be cautious to some extent because you're also like inviting your parents to become attached to this person. And if you're not really that serious, then like, it's just kind of like another person for this... Yeah, your family to remember, or then like, what if you break up, and then they can't keep the people straight, you know, if you're like dating a bunch of people. So, I would say, like, friends after a month if you're serious, and then parents, you could do within 2 or 3 months.

John: Yeah, and you know, one of my friends just met her boyfriend's parents, and they all went to dinner. And you know, I feel like it is kind of awkward sometimes. The first time, I mean, if you're someone like me who doesn't like the awkward silence, you're just going to talk and try to make it more fun anyway. But it can be hard 'cause you're like, you don't know what people are going to think, and you know, like what your partner has said to their parents, and you're meeting them for the first time, or lack thereof 'cause I know, you know, like sometimes your partner doesn't, you know, say very much, and then they just kind of meet you, or they tell them everything, and then they meet you. So, it's like, it could be different degrees. But yeah, I mean, I was pretty nervous meeting your family just because of like our circumstances. Like, they're lovely, they're like the sweetest people, but I was like, "This is like not what they were expecting." And like, "What if they're so blown away by what you're going through that like they don't really want to get close to me?" 'Cause, and at some point, like your sister, like one of them said to you that she didn't really know what was going on and didn't want to get too close. And I don't blame her for that, you know. And now, we all get along, and like your family's met my family. We've had Thanksgiving together, and you know, we've blended all together. So, it feels so good 'cause your family is so warm and welcoming and loving, and you know, my family tries to be the same way. Do a good job, but you know, sometimes the circumstances do make it a little bit scarier to meet parents for the first time.

John: Time, right? Because you don't know how they're going to respond or what they're going to say or bring up, and then you're like, "Oh God." But it was not... I was nervous, but they were so nice and welcomed me in with open arms from the very beginning. So yeah, like, we don't have any... Yeah, luckily, we haven't had to... I mean, a lot of people have gone through the opposite. And part of the reason to wait some period of time before... Well, you should definitely make sure that you're stable because you don't want to be having fights right and then introducing the parents, and now you're like, "I'm breaking up," and then you have to explain it back and forth over and over and over. Yeah, that becomes difficult for sure.

Nicole: And then, also, like you said, you're kind of disrupting other people's lives with your... And you want them to take it seriously, you know? That this is... My mom, after I got cheated on a long time ago, she was like, "I don't want to meet any of your boyfriends unless you're super serious." So, like, that also put... Which, like, yeah, that's just because she also was so involved with him, right? Like, we all went on vacation, and she was so intertwined with him and our relationship that it really hurt her. Like, she wasn't doing it to be mean or anything; she really was hurt. And so, I got her perspective, but then, at the same time, too, I was like, "Now I'm afraid, too, to tell her about somebody, and then, like, what if it doesn't work out?" Like you said, so it is important to be stable because even if you are stable, something could happen, yeah, like that, you know? And you are introducing and involving someone else in their lives, too, and they're going to have feelings about it, you know? Like, so it's important to kind of figure out where you guys are at, at least to the best of your ability, and kind of be like, "Is this someone I do want to introduce to my family and have intertwined with all of that?" Right? Or is this something that maybe I need to wait a little bit longer, or maybe, you know, now that I'm reflecting, that this probably isn't the best idea, you know? There are so many different ways. 'Cause maybe you just need to wait a little bit longer. Like, maybe right now, two or three months in doesn't feel right, but maybe six months in feels right. I mean, I would say if it's a whole year, then you're kind of on the verge of like, "What are you hiding?" You're supposed to be getting engaged by then, so or somewhere around that timeline.

John: At no... Yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. If you're for that long. Yeah, I would say that. I mean, even when... Some of the stuff we went through is probably hard on, you know, your family and my family and stuff, you know? Because, you know, initially. But right, yeah. So that's the hard part, though, when you... You know, you care about somebody, and you want them to be a part of your family, your entire family, and then if something happens, then they have to find out about it. Like, you can't... Exactly. You mean, I guess you... Like, and that's not to say... We'll get into this, I know, further on into this episode, but I'm not saying you tell all your business to your family. Yeah, but like, if things get rocky, or you separate, or whatever, you do have to tell your parents that. I mean, unless it's so short that, like, you know, you don't tell anybody about it. But, you know, you do have to be honest with them and let them know what's going on because, too, then they can support you. Yeah, and they should support you in the right way, rather than like, "Screw him," you know? Like, tear the person down because you don't know if you're going to get back together, what's going to happen. Right, so it is complicated. And then some parents don't act that way, you know? Some parents blatantly tell the person they don't like them, or, you know, and or like the mom when it comes to the son is like so overprotective that she almost is trying to run off the girl. Like, I never dealt with any of that personally, but I've heard plenty of stories.

Nicole: Oh yeah, about things like that, or like, you know, just the person's partner doesn't get along with the parents to the point where it either causes the child to have a strained relationship with the parents and have to make tough decisions, or like, you know, that there's like a constant battle between your spouse and your parents, and you're still involved, but, you know, it's so many different things that could happen. Oh yeah. Yeah, and the other thing about that, too, is it's like you don't want to introduce too early because you don't want to be influenced by even your friends. Like, you know, you need to make your own decision about a person. Right. A lot of times, family members, well-meaning, might give you their inputs on or friends, and there's a time and place for it, but initially, you need to be making your own assessment and not being influenced by other people.

John: So, well, I think, too, when you, like you said, when you know how you feel, that can't happen. 'Cause even my best friend, when we, like, our very few first dates, yeah, when she definitely didn't know you, and I barely knew you, she was like, "I don't know about this guy," sort of thing, you know? Which is like, she's trying to be a good friend, she's trying to look out for me.

Nicole: Yeah, but she was kind of right, though. Like, in a little bit, there was some... She had a feel, but, you know, I was like, "No, I had a really good time, you know? Like, I think that he's a good guy," and here we are. But, you know, like I'm saying, she wasn't being malicious.

John: No, but she didn't know you. I barely knew you, so I couldn't even fully back you up 'cause we had been on three dates, you know? I was just going based on what I knew from those three dates and was like, "He seems genuine," and, you know, those things.

Nicole: But you could have been influenced by it, you know? I mean, some people would. If it would be anybody, it'd be her. She was like my go-to girl and still is. But, you know, that... But I still knew, right? And I still, like, overpowered what she was saying with what I knew to be true. And that's why what you're saying is so right, that you have to know, you have to be firm in what you believe in your partner. Right. Because even your best friend could say something, your mom could say something, your brother could say something. Like, you don't know what's going to happen. And I'm not even saying that, like, 'cause sometimes your closest friends and your family are trying to protect you. So it's like, you can't not listen to what they're saying. You should still listen to their concerns, but if you know that you can actively debate them with facts of what you know, then that's a good thing. If they're bringing up things like, "Oh, I noticed this," and you're just like, "No, he would never do that," or being kind of naive to it, then that's a...

John: The difference thing, but again, that's kind of hard to discuss too because it's really complicated. You know, like some people might sabotage you and be like, "Oh, I saw him flirting with some girl," and then that not happen, and you never know. And I say all this because when I got cheated on, back to the cheated episode, it was with my best friend. Like, the girl was my best friend. So it's like, and then she was sitting there being like, "I can't believe you thought that I would do that to you," and I'm like, "But you did do that to me." So it's like, even people that you feel like are close to you, and that could be your friend or your family, right, could also maybe have ulterior motives that you don't necessarily know about. So it's really complicated.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And then, I guess, you know, talking about the whole interactions, is, you know, how should you interact with, especially if you have... Well, I mean, maybe we could talk about some of the common issues that are faced, right? So for men, certainly, a lot of men are Mama's Boys, and they continue to be when they get in a relationship with a woman or get married. And the problem with that is that, look, as a man, you have to put your wife first, right, above mom, above dad, above the rest of the family. And if there's a dispute, because oftentimes that does occur where maybe the mother is overprotective of the boy, he is a mama's boy, and she doesn't like the wife, and there's a conflict. And the thing that I see a lot of guys do wrong is they side with the mom, or they try to protect the mom. And a woman in that situation needs to feel like the man has her back 100%, right. It's like, look, you know, if you're going to have a problem with my wife, then you're not going to be in my life.

John: Right. Well, because most of the time, these moms, it's coming from their problems, right, and they're projecting it onto the woman because they wouldn't be happy with their son with any woman.

Nicole: Exactly. It's not normally a specific woman. But the man needs to be able to stand up because, you know, men, I'll tell you, if you don't stand up for your wife, and she sees your mom telling you what to do, she's going to lose a ton of respect for you. Not going to be attracted to a man that can't stand up to his own mom.

John: Right. That puts his mom's feelings first above hers, not good. So it's like, and the thing is, again, it comes back to the last episode we were talking about becoming one. That's the thing, is it's like, even if your wife is wrong as a man, and your mom's right, you got to tell your mom, you go, "Look, it doesn't matter. You come between us, you get cut out. Nothing comes between us. That's how it works." And you know, because there's going to be times where maybe that is the case, but as a husband and wife, you back each other up 100%, even when the other person's wrong, at least to the public. You know what I mean? Like, privately, you have a discussion, you can hash things out, but publicly, if anyone comes against you, I'm 100% going to be on your side and only your side. And so, that's the thing with family, is that, like I said, as a man, you have to be very clear in that and make it very clear that whoever the family member is, whether it be a mom, dad, sister, brother, whatever it is, that my immediate family, my wife, my children, they come first. And you guys, you know, you have to get along with my choice, otherwise, we're not going to, you know. And most family are supportive, and they should be, of the choice that you make, even if they disagree with the choice. They need to be supportive of the choice and allow you to make your decision and be respectful and courteous because it is, you know. And I think a lot of guys, they get bent out of shape about that, and they're like, "Oh no, it's like, she doesn't like my family, or my family doesn't like her." And it's, and it kind of goes the other way too. I think if you've got a spouse who doesn't like your family and is mean to your family, you know, that creates a more tough situation, right, because you as the man still have to take responsibility for that, and to, you're still going to have to ultimately side with your wife, right, because that's the choice that you made. Hard to do, you know, that they're the one in the wrong, like, and actively hurting people, you know, like intentionally sometimes.

Nicole: Yeah, but you've ultimately got to, I mean, that's part of the burden that you bear if you choose to become one. So, you have to work those issues out between the two of you instead of ever putting your wife in the situation where it would be, you know, you taking the side of the family. Which is tough. It is an extremely tough situation, but I feel like it's hard too because women do like men who treat their mothers well because that does typically indicate that a man will treat her well, right, and like sisters or any other type of women, you know, in his life. But there are definitely some scenarios where it's just like totally unhealthy, and, you know, the mom too is like almost in your relationship sometimes. Like, I guess the closest that I experienced was with the ex that cheated on me, and his mom would be like, "You know, make sure he does his homework," and all this stuff. I'm like, "I don't want to do that." But, you know, like she's telling me to tell him, and, you know, so, and it just, it does put a strain on the relationship too when it's like that much involved, or like she's still trying to run his life in your relationship. A relationship between two people, right, not three people.

John: Well, that's a whole other episode that we'll have to do on that sort of thing. But yeah, it's complicated because, and to, like, it even made me sad a little bit hearing you say some of the stuff that, like, men have to take it to such extreme, especially it's sad to hear, you know, if someone is like talking poorly about your family or treating them poorly actively, that you still have to side with that person. And I mean, that just goes to show how important it is to pick the right partner and all of those things. But it is sad that, like, you know, that sometimes you even have to side with your partner if they're, you know, treating people that way. And you should, again, as a man, I would say that, you know, you should be providing some leadership and instruction and working the issues out and trying to fix that issue in the relationship so that she's not doing that. But, you know, but ultimately, you do have to make that choice. And I think the other side of it too is though that sometimes it's on the other side. So a lot of times, what will happen in a relationship is that the woman will be greatly...

John: Influenced by her mom, she'll be talking to her every day on the phone, and that's not a good thing either. It's again a relationship between two people. As a man, from the man's perspective, you've got to make sure that it's clear this is our relationship, not your mom's relationship. I feel like, actually, now that you mention it, that it both kind of tethers you to your adolescence.

Nicole: Yeah, and so you can't really be an adult if you're a super mama's boy or calling your mom every day and can't make a decision without her input. I'm not saying don't talk to your parents, but I'm just saying that it's almost like still such a high reliance that a child would have on a parent rather than an adult with a parent-parent-adult relationship. Now, especially if you're in a serious relationship or you're married, you should be relying on your partner to that level rather than your parents. So, those things have to be cut. You have to really leave the nest. It's fine to talk to your parents once a week or once every two weeks or whatever it is, but every single day, regardless if you're a man or woman, when you're in a serious relationship, that's not appropriate. You're not... You need to grow up. The focus is taken off of your relationship, and it's more on that relationship, or it's like juggling between the two rather than the actual relationship being the main focus. Like you said, when you start a family, when you get married, that's your family, your main family unit. And it is sad, you know, that your parents are not a part of your main family unit anymore, but they're still there. They're still part of your family unit, and you get to see them whenever you go to and things like that. But I mean, I've also seen the strain of hard relationships with parents and in-laws, and spouses and couples, and it is a hard thing. I feel like it would be hard if your family didn't like me or if my family didn't like you. And I definitely am glad that our families get along so well with us and each other. It's almost like one big happy family, you know, when we all get together.

John: But that's not a reality for some people, and it's sad that they don't have that. But that's the case where they have to make the right choices. They have to choose their spouse, and that's important, right? Because that causes a lot of problems. It's the one happy thing that you can create. You can't really change your parents' opinion or things like that. And especially with your parents, they tend to be stuck in their ways and thoughts a lot of the time. So yeah, you're right. It's hard because I know everybody wants to have a family that all gets along and likes each other, but some people just don't get to experience that.

Nicole: No, no. And I think what happens too, a lot of times, is that the mom has the attachment to the son, and the dad maybe doesn't let the daughter go. And so a lot of times, what you'll see is a lot of women will treat their dad as the authority instead of their husband. So they'll call up their dad all the time, "Oh, I need help with this thing. I need you to fix this thing." And the dad becomes the... It's like the husband sometimes can just be, "Oh, well, she can have her dad take care of these things." And it's like, no, you need to step up and be the man, you know? And that needs to be the way that the relationship goes. And then also, another thing that I encounter a lot of times in coaching guys is the dad's money. So a lot of times, the woman might come from a family that has money, and then the dad will try to give the daughter a lot of money or buy the house for them or put the down on their house. And while those are sometimes nice gestures, the problem is that it emasculates the man. He should not accept those gifts. He should earn his own way, provide for his own family. Be gracious, "Oh, thank you for offering that," but don't let anyone get their hooks in you because you accept a gift from someone, especially a big one. They're going to have their hooks in you. And it also makes you lose respect as a man, taking a big gift from a girl's father because then she looks at him as the provider. He's the one who bought the house; he's the one who paid for the car or whatever. Again, a little gift or something like that, that's fine. But those big ones, where especially when the father is a lot better off financially than the man, very important to make sure you don't make the wrong choice there because I've seen a lot of guys do that, and it ends up being a disastrous result because it's very hard for the woman to respect the man when she knows that he took a handout from her father, and her father is really the one who's really in charge.

Nicole: That's true. I mean, I would say, this is kind of like a little bit off-topic, but I would say, would a man ever be concerned that he can't give a woman the lifestyle that she grew up with?

John: Yeah, and he should be concerned about that, you know, to a degree. That should be addressed. That should be something where either one of two things should happen: is that he should be providing her that lifestyle, or he should know that she wants to be with him, she doesn't care about the lifestyle, and she understands that that's how it's going to be. Because, you know, if she's used to flying first class all the time and going on vacations to Europe, and he's a man of somewhat humble means, he's not making ridiculous money like daddy's money, then she needs to understand that she's not going to be able to take Daddy's money anymore, you know what I'm saying? It's like, and if she's not okay with that, then that's not a good relationship. Because a lot of times, I think a woman can be like, "Oh, well, you know, I can... Well, Dad will help us out. Dad'll... Oh, Dad will help us get to first class, or you know, like, or to pay for the trip or the vacation, or we're doing family vacation with the..." And it's like, no. "Love is Blind," that one girl, I forget what her name is.

Nicole: Oh, yeah, no, yeah, that's what reminds me. But I've seen it in real life happen many times. And sometimes the father is well-meaning; sometimes he's not. Sometimes he wants to show up the boyfriend or the husband, control that, and keep the control of the situation. So yeah, so it is definitely something to watch out for as a man. But yeah, there's a lot of complications, but I...

Nicole: I mean, we're lucky though because we haven't, you know, everything is just great with family. And yeah, I went to a Galentine's get-together, and I was talking to some of the girls, and we were talking about how sometimes siblings too can be kind of protective of their siblings, no matter who it is. We were mostly talking about how sisters to girls who have their boyfriend's sisters, so it's like, you know, girl-on-girl kind of intimidation, which I've never felt. And I've never, with my brother's fiance, about to be wife, I've never been like, "So what are you doing with my brother?" you know, trying to intimidate her. But some sisters get that way with girls that they're meeting, and it's kind of weird, in my opinion. I feel like it's much better to just be open. And I get too that maybe she's trying to feel it out, she's trying to protect her brother, she's trying to not get too close too soon. But it's also, at the same time, it's like you can just be nice or just have a conversation and make somebody feel comfortable from the very beginning. Even if it doesn't work out, what are you losing by treating somebody politely?

John: Yeah, 'cause people have to make their own choices. I mean, you can't be, and you don't want to be the one responsible for messing up someone's thing. That's the thing, that could happen. There are plenty of people who are like, the family dynamics are just so much that they're like, "I love you, but I can't do this." You know? And sometimes that's how these family issues start, is because you're just dating the person, and then maybe the brother or the sister or the father, whatever it is, doesn't like the person. It's like, well, they're not going to marry this person, and so they don't care how they're acting to that person. And then they do marry the person, and now that person remembers all the stuff, and it creates a difficult situation. So, that's why it's better to just let people make their choices. You can give them some advice, but don't poison the well. A relationship is between two people, not three. So don't talk to your family about every single little thing.

Nicole: That's what I was saying earlier. It's like, I'm not saying don't talk to your family, right, but don't tell them every single little thing. I mean, to be honest, our families probably learn more about what we go through in our relationship by watching this. But they also see us, it's also a different context because it's both of us talking together, sharing it. It's not me saying, "You know what, John called me a butthead," or whatever. That's what happens with a lot of people. And, you know, you can really convince someone that your significant other is the devil when you're upset. And you feel fine later, but they still remember what you said.

John: So, I mean, I would say too, to not even talk to friends.

Nicole: No, well, it's just again, like they don't know the full picture. And like you said, if you vent to your friends about something that the guy messed up, which, don't get me wrong, I've vented to people. And especially when we were going through our stuff in the very beginning, I needed people to talk to, and I told them what was going on. Plenty of them were probably like, "Maybe this isn't the best idea," but I knew it was best for me, and I kept going with that. And then here we are. But it's hard because even back then, they don't fully know the whole situation, they don't fully know how you feel. Like, they're a lot of times still stuck on the bad thing that you called them about to complain about. And even if you're like, "Oh no, we're better now," they're like, they don't know all the ways that you guys repaired. They only know that you're saying, "Oh, we're better now." But they also know that you called them a snake and whatever. And like, I was like, "I'll never marry this guy," and then now you're like, "Oh, we're engaged," and your friend's like, "What? You just said you would never marry him." And so, yeah, like your friend means well, she's genuinely concerned 'cause you came and told her this thing. But it's like, and let's be real, women can be dramatic a lot of times too when we're upset. And so it seems like it's a big deal, and we might, you know, embellish it a little bit, and then things are better again. And then now your friend doesn't know, is this good for you, is this not good for you? Like, do I say something, do I not say something? You know, you're putting both your friends and your family in a very weird situation by just venting all the stuff to them. And plus, at the end of the day, the absolute best person to talk to about problems is your partner.

John: Exactly, that's the only way things are going to get fixed. You could talk till you're blue in the face to your mom, to your best friend, to your sister, but they can't fix the relationship for you. They can only listen to you. And it might feel like that is good, but really, you should want your partner to listen to you, and then you guys can fix it. So if you're looking for someone to listen to you, and even if you feel like your partner might not be able to do that, I would recommend a therapist or a journal until you get to that point where you can talk to your partner about it. But definitely no family, no friends, because like you said, it will poison the well and put them in a weird situation. And they're like, "I don't know what to do." And you can talk, I mean, you can talk to them about stuff that you're struggling with yourself, but not about the other person. If you're like, "I'm having trouble with my insecurity or I'm having trouble with my anger," or whatever, that's fine. You can talk about that, you can, you know, like problems that you're actually dealing with that are yourself, you know, that's totally fine. 'Cause sometimes you do need some support or some advice on those things, and that's great. But it should never be, "My partner's doing this," or "They're such a jerk," or "They did this thing," because then it just becomes an echo chamber too.

John: Like this, your will is poisoned, and you start to think badly about your partner. You get suspicious, and all kinds of stuff can snowball from that.

Nicole: Very true. Well, what other family or friend things do we have? I'm trying to think what other issues come up. What have you seen come up?

John: I mean, I feel like we've hit on a lot of it. It's a lot of the guy and the mama's boy thing. Moms can go to really long extents to make a woman feel like she doesn't belong or she doesn't want her there. But also, at the same time, with the daughter and father sort of relationship too, where it would put a guy in a tough situation with the money thing and him paying for things. He has to be the man of the relationship. It's just you guys in the relationship. I don't know, I feel like we've hit a lot of them. It's very important with not talking about things and trying. I do feel like people should try to all get along. It should, even if you're meeting some resistance one way or the other, you should still try to all get on the same page. Sometimes that might mean the actual child of the set of parents talks to the parents separately. There was a time when you and I were going through some things, you know, and my parents had to know about some of the things. But at one point, I had to be like, "Look, I want to be with John. I understand all these things have happened. I value your guys' opinion, but this is what's going to happen." And like, that's what it is. It's kind of like a boundary sort of thing.

Nicole: For sure.

John: Yeah, and they didn't have any problem with that, you know what I mean? But I had to do that because they had known so much back and forth that I didn't want them to be confused. So, I almost had to set the record straight. And I feel like the guy in that situation with the mama's boy and the girl in the situation with the father and the daughter, it's their responsibility to go to both of those parents or either of those parents or whatnot and be like, "Hey, this is the person that I want to be with." Especially the mom and the son because the dad, I feel like, it's a little bit easier, you know? Like, to kind of just not accept anything from dad. They're not normally saying mean things and trying to attack emotionally, but the moms can be pretty mean. And the guy needs to be like, "Look, I love this woman. This is the type of woman she is. I love her. She's going to eventually be the mother of my children, or she already is, and you need to respect that."

Nicole: Yep.

John: Yeah, it doesn't matter what you think. You got to respect. And I think also it goes on the other side of it too. Like, don't be the person that causes conflict with your spouse's parents. Like, even if you don't like them, tolerate them because, to a degree, I mean, obviously, if they're totally disrespectful to you, then you can leave. But don't get into it with them ever. There's no need because the thing is, as a guy, a woman's parents are always going to be your parents. It's never going to not be the case. And so, even if her parents are not very nice people, you feel like, or they don't like you or something, you've got to be the bigger man and step up and still be kind. And like I said, don't be disrespected to your face. Obviously, you can get out of there, but don't increase the hostility. You got to realize that at some point, you're never going to take a person and turn them against their parents totally. You know what I'm saying? It's like they're still going to love their parents. So even if their parents are wrong, you know, again, you should always side with your spouse, but you do have to recognize that dynamic. It's like people are not going to hate their brothers or their sisters or their parents. And they might even talk bad about their parents. That's another thing that happens. If your spouse talks bad about their parents, you listen, you support, but you don't pile on. They can talk bad about their parents; you can't talk bad about their parent or any family member, really. That's how it is. You let them talk it out, but you don't say anything because it's so funny. A lot of times, this will happen. The situation where they'll be talking bad about some family member, and then you say something, and now they're going to be defensive.

Nicole: Yeah.

John: And they're going to get upset at you, even though they were just bashing this person. So that's also, I think, a big misstep that people make.

Nicole: That's true.

John: Yeah. And then the only other one I was thinking of is proximity, which kind of is related to how involved should your parents be in your life, right? So, my opinion is, I mean, I think it is good if you can to live close to family but not too close. Like an hour drive is good. Half an hour is pushing it. Across the street is now, you're like Everybody Loves Raymond, you know? Mom coming over every single day.

Nicole: Right.

John: And then some. That's what I grew up with. It was literally like my house, my great-grandparents' house, my grandparents' house.

Nicole: Yeah.

John: And like, so it was kind of nice because I could just literally drive my little four-wheeler over to Grandma's house.

Nicole: Yeah, I get what you mean, though. And then, like, my grandparents never popped in or anything, thank goodness. But, you know, it becomes tough because you have to really separate and live your own life together and start your own family. Sometimes the influence can be too strong, especially. But it is helpful when you have children. You know, you have someone to watch the children, and it's their family member. Like, and also, I grew up obviously with a big close family, so I hung out with my cousins a lot. And that was really nice, to feel like I had a big community of people.

John: Yeah.

Nicole: So, I do like that. I mean, again, I also went and did my own thing. So, I agree with like an hour away is good because you can still all get together. Even half an hour, I can handle. I think it's okay, you know what I mean? But you just don't want to be right immediate.

John: And the biggest reason, too, is just because it's too likely that there'll be interference. It's too likely there'll be interference, you know? It's like, even like you said, it's good to have family to help out with the kids and stuff like that, but if the mom is coming...

John: Over and constantly watching the kids all the time, or you're constantly dropping off the kids at the parents' daycare, you're abusing that relationship.

Nicole: Right, that's not right. Unless your parent actually says they don't mind, but for the most part, they do mind. Even still, you don't want the grandparents raising the children either. You need to have your rules, your house. Grandparents are going to be a little more lenient, they're going to spoil the kids. So, you can't have that happening all the time. Even if you have to pay for childcare, it's better to pay for some childcare. Maybe Grandma and Grandpa can watch every once in a while, so you go on dates and stuff like that, but not on a regular every single day basis.

John: Because then it's not going to be really good. It starts to blur the lines between your relationship unit and the entire family unit.

Nicole: Yes, exactly. Everybody Loves Raymond, you've seen that show, right?

John: It's been a long time.

Nicole: But that's like the classic in-laws example. It doesn't have to be bad, but a lot of people do end up having hostility with in-laws. It's a common thing, even living close together. There needs to be boundaries.

John: Just for all of it, too. Like the hostility, there needs to be boundaries. Like you said, you're not going to tolerate disrespect to your wife, then you'll leave. That's a boundary.

Nicole: But I think too, our parents' generation, they didn't really know what boundaries are. They had to learn those things, and even sometimes it's hard for them to learn those things now. There wasn't as many boundaries around the entire whole extended family unit and then a singular family unit.

John: You know what I mean. It should be a singular family unit and all these little units just within this bigger circle, but they're still units. It's not just one big ginormous circle. And that, in fact, that's why we should recommend that book, "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's a highly religious book, so if you're not religious, you can obviously ignore that part of it. But it is primarily dealing with boundaries involving parents.

Nicole: As you grow up, especially as a man, you have to set boundaries. You can't be allowing your parents to guilt you, to control your lives. A lot of times, that is what happens.

John: And you've got to be able to, and that's something that I had to struggle with in my life early on, setting boundaries. It's very hard for a woman to respect you as a man when she sees your parents disrespecting you, and you're cowering down to that. You're so scared to disappoint them that you're not becoming your own man.

Nicole: That's true. Men have to metaphorically kill their father. It's basically the idea that you have to stop adopting your father's value system and you have to put your own crown on and sit on your own throne and be your own man, and stop seeking his approval all the time.

John: Right. And so it's like in your head, you're now the father. You're the one. So, a lot of guys grow up and they never do that, and they're still seeking their father's approval. So, that hurts them in their relationships.

Nicole: So true. Alright, I guess that's all we got for today. We don't have any tidbits for the end because we gave away all of our tidbits. John told you, we just recorded one before this. So, now you know. But, you know, this is a great time to talk about how we're on iTunes, and we don't have any reviews that have words.

John: So, yeah, leave us some words, some star things that you like. Give us a nice review, especially because some haters were trying to tear us down. Come out, we'd appreciate it. In fact, I'll tell you what, if you leave a review on iTunes and we remember to look at it, which we will, then we'll read it.

Nicole: I thought you were going to say like we'll send you something. Hey, leave a name, we'll actually read it.

John: Yeah, we'll read it on the air. Not just read it. You need to be more specific because you're just like, "We will read it." We'll actually read it ourselves.

Nicole: Okay, we'll read it on the air is what he meant. So, go to iTunes and give us a review, or wherever you want to give us a review. iTunes is good.

John: Alright, see you next time. Through every fault, we find our way.