John: Expectations make you weak, and standards make you powerful. In the parenting situation, if you have expectations on your child, you have to nag them and constantly tell them what you need them to do, right? Because it's like your emotional well-being depends on them following through and doing the things. So that makes you weak because now you're beholden to them. If you have standards and you have consequences, then you're powerful. Every single one of us has the autonomy in our own life to be able to say who is in our life and who's not. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. And it is now, or tomorrow will be Nicole's birthday.

Nicole: We won't say how old I am or how young I am, but you can take a guess in the comments.

John: Yeah, I guess I'll allow it. But a guess in the comments, how old do you think I'm turning? Well, by the time you see this, I'll be the age already.

Nicole: That's true. Yeah, 'cause it's... But still, yeah, we're in the future. So yeah, it's kind of hard to like... My neck is sore.

John: Yeah, that's what happens when you get older. So you know. But yeah, we don't have any Love is Blind updates for you, unfortunately. Watch, but I know that the internet is pissed at Tyler, which I know the last episode we did, we were like, Tyler and Ashley were the couple that were like praying together. The guy who, at the last episode, was like, "I'm a sperm donor." Well, come to find out, he's a sperm donor in the traditional sense, as he's a father.

Nicole: That's what I thought. People are calling him Tyler the procreator, but people are mad. They're saying he's like the worst guy on Love is Blind, period, because he did not tell her he had kids. And then now he's trying to play it off that he just donated sperm, but then his kid's grandmother, not his mother but the other, the wife, or I don't think they were married, but the mother's mother, posted all these pictures that he does all these things with him like he's a normal dad. But then I guess this season was filmed a year ago.

John: Yeah, and he hasn't talked to his kids in a year since the show.

Nicole: Wow, that's like... And he deleted all the pictures of his kids and stuff. And that makes it worse, right?

John: That's why they're saying he's the villain. They say he's the ultimate villain. It would be better if he just lied about the kids, not that... Now he... It's not better, like lying is not better.

Nicole: Yeah, I'm just saying like it would be better if he lied about the kids rather than abandoning them now. So yeah, like doing both, they're saying he is the ultimate villain, which yeah, I can imagine lying about having children or...

John: Right. But yeah, so we were all like, they seem like the best couple, and then here we are, eating our words. Like, that's just editing. But I heard they got married, so I don't know.

Nicole: Stop giving me spoilers. Stop it, jeez. You're like letting the spoilers out subtly. You already knew that he had kids. The spoilers of like them being his actual kids and he abandoned them, that's not going to be on the show at all.

John: I mean, we were like, we need to catch up, but we're debating whether it was that he like had an official sperm donation, or if it was like a, you know...

Nicole: Well, I don't think they're going to show that on the episode.

John: Yeah. Well, we'll have to dig into probably why he said he wanted seven kids, 'cause he already had three.

Nicole: Oh yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, seven is a lot. I feel like if a man comes up to you, even if you're like them, and you're like engaged, and he's like, "I want seven kids," run away. That's way too many.

John: Yeah, that's... Yeah, that's a lot. Like, why do you want a basketball team? If you got like a farm, you know, you got to... Some...

Nicole: Have a farm in DC? Are you going to get a farm, make a farm?

John: I don't know. Start a revolution. You can start a revolution, get, you know, got to get your... No, that's a red flag. If a man says he wants like... I'll even give people five kids. I still think that's way too much. But more than five, more than five is like, why do you need that many? And as a man requesting more than five... If a woman requests more than five, still not ideal, but like she has to go through that, so that's her choice. But a man requesting more than five, five or more, yeah, what are you doing? What are your ulterior motives? That's what I want to know. If you have more than five kids, why?

Nicole: Yeah, I'm curious. I can be convinced if it's for a good reason. I mean, it won't be me. It won't be me having five kids or more. Some people just want a big family, I guess. I don't know. But I mean, I get that, but five is big. You have to have like a good car to take five kids somewhere. You got to have a bus if you're at seven, you know.

John: Yeah, a school bus.

Nicole: Yeah, a legit bus. Yeah, or a van, you know, or like one of the ones they put the inmates in.

John: Yeah, like one of those, you know, that have all the rows. One of those vans when they take them to do community service.

Nicole: Yeah, don't ask me how I know that.

John: But anyway, have you done community service?

Nicole: Have you done community service?

John: No, don't lie to me.

Nicole: I was going to be funny, though, and be like, "Oh, now that we're married, I can tell you about the time I went to jail."

John: Yeah, yeah. You should tell me about your criminal record.

Nicole: Tyler, I have not gone to jail. I've just watched a lot of True Crime.

John: But how close to jail have you been?

Nicole: Not close. Like, you know me.

John: Have you ever been arrested?

Nicole: No, I've never even been pulled over by a police officer. I've never gotten a ticket. I'm knocking on wood, though.

John: Stopped by the police on foot? Like, no? Searched?

Nicole: No, no.

John: Ever stolen anything?

Nicole: Okay, no. No. That's why I'm telling you, like, never. Li... You already know little ones, but we won't go there.

John: Look, I'm not claiming to be... I've... I've... I haven't... I've never been arrested, though. Fully. I've... I've been under suspicion but never officially arrested. Like, charges have never been brought, so...

Nicole: This is the first time hearing.

John: No, I told you. I hacked some computers, so...

Nicole: Oh yeah.

John: Yes, I did. They did bust down my door and still take my computer, though.

Nicole: You didn't...

John: But I was like... I was like 13, minor, yeah, 13 or so. But so, you got lucky. Don't hack the government, and don't glue your refrigerator door shut. John also did that as well.

Nicole: Hey, you got to live, you know. All right, should we get into the episode?

John: Yeah.

Nicole: Okay, so it's my episode, so it's going to be about...

John: What, you forgot?

Nicole: No, I know what it is.

John: You forgot that for my... yeah, uh, stand like, can you have standards in a relationship? Should you have standards? The difference between expectations, yeah, yeah, I got it, don't worry. Well, you got your notes there?

Nicole: Yeah, I do. Like expectations versus standards, right? And then should you have because...

John: What it comes down to is a question of like, are my expectations too high? That's what most people ask, right? And then, but the answer is no, your standards are too low. That's my answer.

Nicole: Oh, interesting. Okay, so I'll define the difference between, and this is my working definition that I've used for the last 10 years or so in coaching, which is that an expectation is a burden that you put on other people. A standard is something that you have for yourself.

John: Right, so can I give you mine?

Nicole: Yeah, do it.

John: I did standards versus expectations. So standards versus what you will accept, like it's your choice what you will accept versus expectations are what you expect. Well, it's an expectation, circular definition, but yes, you know what I mean. Like what you will accept is like, right, take you know, like you're either going to be with this person because this is what they're bringing to the table, or you're choosing not to versus expectations is like, you might choose to be with this person, but you expect them to act a certain way.

Nicole: Yeah, like you expect them to do what you want.

John: Right, and that's not... the classic example that I give guys that pisses them off is between stand like when I say, and to get it straight, I always tell people that you should not have expectations. If in fact, if you want to not experience negative emotions in life, get rid of your expectations. Instead, replace your expectations with standards. So once you get rid of expectations, then you're free. You're not going to be upset all the time or angry because anger always comes from an unmet expectation. So expectation, you have it, it doesn't happen, that's why you're angry. Also, usually when you're upset, sad, those things always almost always come from an unmet expectation. Right, if you try to think of any time that you've ever been angry and you didn't have some expectation behind it, I don't think you would find one unless you hit your thumb with a hammer, and but even then, you probably have an expectation not to hit.

Nicole: Right, so well, it's funny, really quick, yeah, just talking about this because you were like the first person I went on a date with that I didn't have any sort of expectation because I feel like it's normal to go on a date and you're like, you don't have an expectation like they're going to be the person that I'm going to be with or I'm going to date, but you're like, hopefully, that's where it goes.

John: Right, but you didn't live where I lived, and you were just in town, and I was like, oh, this is just going to be like a one-day thing, he doesn't live here. My standard is I'm not going to do long distance, so I'm just going to go and have fun. There's no like, you know, pressure of like, will we be together, how is this going to work out? And then the one time I didn't have expectations, like this is a hot, this guy's a hot douchebag, and he doesn't even live here, so I'm just going to with him, plus he lied, said he was 35 when I know he's 40.

John: Yeah, I could not wait to like break that one out in front of you. I'm just going to have fun here, you know.

Nicole: That's what... yeah, well, yeah, there's no expectations, and then look, look at us.

John: Yeah, who would have thought?

Nicole: The universe would have thought. So yeah, so the example that I use is that you should not have the expectation that your girlfriend is not going to cheat on you because if you have that expectation and then she does, you're going to be devastated and destroyed.

John: Right, yeah, instead, you should have a standard that if you're with a woman who cheats on you, you won't be with that woman, or you could have a standard of you won't be with a woman that would do things that would make it so she would cheat on you or make it easier to have the opportunity or what have you. So that's the difference, and the reason why, because, you know, when I've said this in the past, guys were like, I should have expectations that someone's not going to cheat on me. I should have expectations that if I work, I'm going to get paid for the work that I do, right? And those things seem right, but what it really should be is that you should have a standard that this is what you'll accept. And the reason, the difference is, is because that expectation now makes it so that it almost sort of becomes a form of control. If you have an expectation that your girlfriend's not going to cheat on you, you're now putting all this pressure on her, you're trying to control her actions. So now you have to, we talk about sharing locations, but now you're sharing your location because you're trying to control where she goes and what she does. And a lot of people interpret what we're saying as being controlling in that way because they think about it that way. But when you have a standard, it's like, okay, you want someone to do whatever they want to do, it's fine. Like, they don't need to control them. But if they want to be with you, then these are the things that you require. And that could be things like we said about, hey, I got to have location on. I, as a man, I'm the leader, I'm the man, that's how it is in the relationship. Like, these things can be put out there as standards. We don't do girls' night out, that's not what we do. That's my standard. I don't date women that do that. I don't date women that do these things, not in a serious relationship with them. So those all become standards instead of expectations, whereas if they're expectations, you're going to be constantly monitoring, constantly watching, constantly trying to control the situation so that you don't get hurt or you don't get disappointed or you don't get angry, whereas the standard is sort of, it's more like take it or leave it. It's like, okay, hey, this is what I require. You don't have to do these things. And it really kind of overlaps with the idea of a boundary because it is a boundary. A standard and a boundary are the same thing. So, you know, setting the boundary and saying this is what, you know, the standard is more of this is what I'll accept, whereas the boundary's more of if this happens, this is how I will respond to this.

Nicole: Right, right. So yeah, there we go, done episode over. Is your topic, what do you think?

John: I mean, I agree. Like with what you said, I think the standard is also kind of like the blueprint of what you're looking for in a relationship, and it's similar to the boundaries, like you said, because to uphold a standard, you have to have a boundary. Right, like to uphold a standard, you have to have a boundary.

John: To walk away if that standard is not met, right? Because then it's not a standard, it's, I guess, an expectation. I don't know, it's confusing if someone had a standard but then didn't follow through.

Nicole: Like then it's an expectation because then that's being used as a device in order to manipulate someone. Right? Because if I say, "Nicole, if you call me a name one more time other than John, then I am going to leave. I'm going to go to the mall." Oh, okay, whatever. I'm just thinking of this on the fly. And then you call me a cotton-headed ninny muggins.

John: Wow, that's exactly what I was gonna say. That's exactly what I was gonna say. Wow, people probably won't believe you.

Nicole: Get out of my mind.

John: I believe you. We do that all the time. If you get in my mind one more time, what are you gonna do? But if I then do not follow through, then I just used that to manipulate you, right? Because a promise and a threat are different. A promise is if you do this, this is what I'm going to do, and you're following through. A threat is just doing this in order to control you because I have no intention of doing the thing.

Nicole: Yeah, because when I think of standard, I think of, in the beginning, you realizing what you want in a relationship, and that is kind of like what you will accept in a relationship, right? And then based on those standards, you probably have boundaries that are very similar. With standards, you have to uphold those. You can't be like, "I won't tolerate being cheated on," and then the guy you're with cheats on you, and you're just like, "It's okay, I understand." Like even if you change your mind because you've been together or something, and you guys work through it, there still has to be some seriousness that you're going to uphold that.

John: Exactly, yeah. Because otherwise, like you said, then it doesn't really mean anything. Plus, then you also look like you don't respect yourself. And with standards in dating, you should have standards for yourself as well, as someone who's going out and dating or as somebody who's going to be in a relationship. Like, "I'm going to act this way because that is how I choose to act and how I want to show up and the person I want to be." And it doesn't matter how that person shows up, this is what I'm going to do. And expectations, I mean, everybody has had an expectation at some point, right? And got butt hurt about it.

Nicole: Sure, yeah. And it's easy to fall into having expectations, especially like you're talking about the guys who are like, "Well, why shouldn't I expect my girlfriend not to cheat on me?" That just makes logical sense. And I understand where they're coming from because, in some way, yeah, why would you get in a relationship if you're going to cheat on somebody? Like, I understand where that expectation comes from. But like you said, if it is an expectation, when it happens, or if it happens, it's a lot more devastating because now you didn't have the standard to know what to do when that happens.

John: Right, yeah. And if you did have the standard to know what to do, you would be like, "Look, I care about you, but you did this, and a standard I have is I'm not going to stay in a relationship where someone cheats on me," and you have to leave.

Nicole: Exactly. So it's like expectations just make it more messy. You don't really know what you're doing. You're also projecting your things that you want. It is a form of control. Expectations are a form of control, like you trying to control the situation, you trying to control another person's behavior, and you can't.

John: Right. And again, I understand that it can naturally happen. It's natural to have expectations pop up. But like you said, you do kind of have to hone it in and be like, "Hey, this feels more like an expectation. I need to instead have a standard, and I need to not stress about this thing because I can't control it." And instead, have a standard where if this happens, I know what I'm going to do.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. And the thing about it is that all expectations are ridiculous, right? Because you cannot control another person's behavior. You can only control your own behavior. So when you put an expectation on anything, even the weather, you get disappointed when it's not sunny when you want it to be sunny, or it's cold, or it's raining. That's an expectation, and it's ridiculous because you can't control the weather. So why are you putting your emotional investment in something that you have no control over? You're just asking yourself to be hurt when you have expectations. But having a standard is a totally different matter.

John: So no matter what the expectation is, it's ridiculous. Even when guys say, "Oh no, it's not ridiculous to have an expectation that my girlfriend's not going to cheat on me," and I use that one because that's the one that always gets thrown in my face. But it is ridiculous because you're not that other person. You can't control them. You can't watch them 24/7. You can't have that expectation. You can believe that they're not going to. You can have the standard that if they do, right, you know obviously you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone that you don't believe or trust. But at the same time, the expectation is still, you can never have the expectation because you can't know. You don't know what's going to happen with someone else and what they're going to do.

Nicole: That's true. Well, and we've talked before about influencing people, right? Based on your behavior. And see, I even think that's a little bit messy because if you're expecting to influence people with your behavior, that's still an expectation, and there is no guarantee that you can influence a person. And I know we've talked about it before, but that's why I want to keep stressing to people that you really need to focus on you. A standard is you, what you want, what you will accept, what you're going to do, all the things that involve you. And the second that you start doing things or trying to do things or trying to say things to get someone else to do something, you have an expectation, including trying to change yourself just to influence someone else.

John: Well, it can be. It depends on how you think about it, right? And how you're doing it. So if you're changing yourself in order to influence someone else, and that is your expectation that it will happen, then it becomes an expectation. If you change yourself in the hopes of influencing someone else, but you've already made...

John: Making peace within your head that your change is a good change that you want to do, and hopefully it will change them, but if it doesn't, that's okay. I don't expect that it will. Right then, that's a different thing, and it's a little bit, I think, that even parts of that would still be expectations, in my opinion. Because I think the only way to really have no expectations, I think, is having less. I'm not saying that it's not, but I think there is still expectations there underlying. I think the only way to get rid of expectations of influencing other people is just being like, "I'm going to be the best version of myself," right? And hopefully, that inspires others to be the best version of themselves. That, I don't feel like, is an expectation.

Nicole: And I feel like that's the only way that you can say like, "I hope me being a better person influences other people," without it being an expectation. There are going to be occasions where you're going to try to get someone to do something or believe a thing or change their perspective on a thing, and that's important because we're always doing that. That's what influence is. But you can do it in a way where you do have an expectation on them, and you can do it in a way where it's not. Just as another example, let's say that you're, you know, shooting an arrow at a target, right? You can have the expectation that you're going to hit the target, and if you don't, you're going to be ticked off when you don't. Like, "I'm such bad luck. Why does this happen? I aim," you know, all that stuff, right? But you can let go of that expectation but still try to hit that target. That's how I play board games, right? I let Jesus take the wheel. I don't expect to win, but I'm going to try to win, but I don't expect to, and then most of the time, I end up winning.

John: Right, so we're on the same page. So that's what I'm saying, is that you can try to influence someone; you just can't have the... And it is hard, and it is subtle, the difference between the two, but it's how much stake that you've put into it, right? You know when you have an expectation because the thing is, if you don't influence them, how disappointed are you going to be? Right? And it's the same thing. If I'm aiming at that target, obviously, I want to hit that target, right? But if I have an expectation that I'm going to hit that target, I'm going to be pretty disappointed if I don't hit the target. If I say, "I want to hit the target," but I don't have an expectation, then I shoot my arrow, and if it doesn't hit the target, then I am still a little disappointed, obviously, because I had a hope, an ambition for that thing, but it's not devastating because I didn't, in my mind, think that this is going to happen.

Nicole: Right, and I think that's the difference. So you can influence a person, and you can set out to influence a person, but the question is, how much stake are you putting into it, in the sense that what will happen if this doesn't happen? And are you only doing the thing in order to influence them? That, I would say, is an expectation. Then, if you're changing yourself in order to get an outcome, that's controlling, which is an expectation. Like, and expectations just cause so much more inner turmoil. Like you said, it causes so much more pain when something doesn't happen. And as a former people pleaser, people pleasers tend to have a lot of expectations, right? Because they're like, "I'm doing this, so they should act this way," and "I'm doing this to make them happy, so hopefully they do something to make me happy," or because they don't communicate exactly about it properly. So, unfortunately, a lot of people pleasers end up in this situation. And as somebody who was a people pleaser and had expectations that didn't get met and then would get butthurt about it and then realize that it's all in my head and no one even knew what the heck was going on.

John: Exactly. You have to understand, and I think when I stopped being a people pleaser is when I understood the difference between expectations and standards. And it's also when you understand that you have control of your life, and you have the control for the standards, and you have the control for the boundaries. And it's no ill will towards anyone else, like if they don't meet your standards or whatever, or, you know, they cross your boundary, but it's what you have to do in order to uphold what you believe in and who you are and what you want.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. And that's where the nice guy syndrome comes from, right? So, in fact, there's a real good book on it, because King likes the books, uh, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover, who I've had on my YouTube channel too. Cool guy. But the idea is that a nice guy, what he does is he has all these expectations. He has what Robert Glover talked about in his book, and he called it implicit contracts, right? So it's not explicitly stated; it's implicit. "If I do the dishes, I will get sex," right? That's an implicit contract. That's a nice guy contract because it puts burdens on people. You're putting expectations, you're putting obligations on people that they haven't obligated themselves to because they know nothing about it. Exactly. You do something, that's why nice guys get girls gifts and take them to nice restaurants and stuff. Not that you can't do that, but nice guys do it because they want something. And it doesn't even have to be sex, because that's what a lot of guys are like, "No, that's not me. That's what a jerk does." Yeah, but it doesn't have to be sex, and in fact, most of the time, it's not. Most of the time, it's you just want her to like you, and you think there's nothing wrong with that. But the thing is, you're trying to buy that affection, you're trying to buy that love. You're doing something with the expectation that something is going to happen, that this person is going to act or respond a certain way. And then, the reason why it's so problematic is because what happens when they don't act that way, or they don't respond the way that you feel a sense of injustice, right? "Hey, I did this, right. They never asked you to do it, but I did this, so I deserve this," right? And it's unfair, and that's what happens, and that's why a lot of times women really don't like nice guys because it's not a secret contract behind what they're doing, and everything that they do, it's the expectation.

Nicole: Exactly. And she doesn't know what it is, but she can feel that this is an exchange rather than a gift. A gift is something you give somebody, and you don't expect something, or you don't expect something in return. A thing that you're giving somebody in order to get something back, like, women can sense that. And like you said, a lot of time with nice guys, even if they bring like flowers to a first date.

John: It's like you don't know anything about me, and you're giving me this thing. It feels almost like you're trying to win me over with this thing rather than allowing me to get to know you and really decide whether I want to be with you romantically or not. I've coached guys on this before. It's confusing to a lot of guys, but you can bring women flowers on the first date. You absolutely can. It's just how you come across, and your true heart will come out in the way that you do it. If you're buying the flowers because you're hoping that this will impress her, that she'll like you, it's going to come across like that. But if you're buying flowers because you're just like, "Hey, you're just cool. Here you go. I got some flowers for you. Let's go on the date," it's not a big deal. It's just like you just want to do it because you're just a cool guy, you know what I mean? Like you enjoy giving people gifts and doing cool stuff for them. That's how it's going to come across, and it's going to come across as charming.

Nicole: Exactly, yeah. And it's also why, for guys, asking a girl out, a lot of times it's better to just ask out on a date or to do something is to say, "Hey, I was planning on going and doing whatever activity on Saturday. You should come with me, or would you like to come with me?" So now, it also comes across as, "I'm not trying to do anything in order to impress. I'm already doing that thing." But the expectation behind doing something and then wanting someone to respond in a certain way, that's where you get into trouble, and it's not just dating, it's in relationships as well. That's why I tell guys all the time to tell her what you want, tell her what you don't like, rather than expecting, "I expect you to do this for me. I expect you to not do this." If you have a standard that says, "I really don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't care about what I want and doesn't care about what I don't like," that's a kind of broad standard, but it's one that you can have. But that keeps you from having the expectation because otherwise, you have that expectation, you're going to be constantly disappointed or angry or upset, and it gets you into a trap where there's resentment that starts to build up.

John: Right, and it's normal. I want to mention that it's normal to even sometimes have expectations. If you understand this, like I'm not saying follow through with the expectations, but there have been plenty of times in our relationship where I've had an expectation, and it's caused me to get upset. You've had an expectation, and it's caused you to get upset. This isn't something that's just going to instantly change. It's something that you have to actively keep yourself from having expectations and rather having standards because our human brains naturally want to go to expectations. But you have to actively, if you're thinking of an expectation that you have, be like, "Nope, I need to instead have a standard for this," and how does that look versus an expectation? And then implement that, and sometimes that means not just saying whatever pops into your head, like taking a moment and being like, "Is this an expectation I have?" Or if you're feeling angry and you don't really know why, like you're upset, be like, "Okay, did I have an expectation?" And if I did, do I just let it go because it's my fault because I had an expectation? Do I need to have a conversation and make this like a standard sort of thing or a boundary that I have? You definitely have to assess what's going on inside of you because it's not going to be like you watched this episode and now you have standards and expectations. Expectations will pop into your head, and they will try to control you to control someone else.

Nicole: Exactly, but you have to fight against that. And it's a concept. You're never going to get rid of all your expectations, but if you're aware of it, then you can start to get rid of expectations. And it's really helpful in parenting obviously as well. Right, because, you know, the way that we parent, for example, you never see me yell at Sophia. I mean, you don't either. We don't, but I don't really get upset. I'm not going to say that I never get upset. It's frustrating because anybody knows that it can be frustrating, but even that is an expectation. That's where that's coming from. But in general, I try not to have expectations because it's like, you know, she has consequences many times for doesn't clean a room, doesn't get up on time, or whatever. Although we haven't had that one in a long time, but go to bed on time. So when that happens, I think a lot of parents, they get upset at the child. They're like, "I told you to do this. I can't believe you didn't do this. I'm so frustrated with you." And it's like, well, you expected this child to get it right every single time, where it's like, you can have the standard that says, "Hey, if you don't do the things, the rules, then you have consequences, and that's it. I don't care if you have the consequences. I don't want you to have the consequences, but I don't have any emotional stake in you making these choices. If you didn't choose to clean your room and that was what you're supposed to do, hey, then you've lost your electronics for however many days, and that's up to you. I'm not going to get angry or upset about it because I don't care. Obviously, I would prefer you to do it, but it's your choice."

Nicole: Well, it's easier too because it's not your consequence and your emotion that you're dealing with. Right, like it is easier to have standards versus expectations. I feel like, at least for us in parenting, it does get a little harder with romantic connections just because you're so intertwined, you know? And it's like you can love somebody so much, and then what if they do cheat on you, and that also affects your life, you know? So, like, someone else's actions in a

John: Relationships do typically impact your life more than, say, if your kid doesn't clean their room. Sure, it's harder, but that's a good example because parents should do that if they're not already doing that. It also relieves a lot of the frustration that parents have. We understand it can be frustrating sometimes, and like you said, it's because you have expectations that you think are logical, right? But they're kids. Things are going to get broken, mistakes are going to be made, and if you just have the standard for whatever thing pops up, then it also helps you not get so worked up, and you're able to be more regulated for your child when they're dealing with their emotions about the situation. So, I think it is good to bring that up. But I think romantic relationship-wise, yeah, it's harder because even when someone else makes a decision, it normally affects you still. And that's also why I'm sure people gravitate towards having expectations and trying to be controlling because they're trying to make sure their side of the road stays peachy keen and looks nice and clean.

Nicole: You're on the same two-lane road. It's the same road, right? But you have two different lanes, and if something comes and wrecks in the middle of your road, it's blocking both sides. There are a lot of situations where that's going to be the case, not just in the relationship. I mean, even just with the child example, you know, if your child knocks over a vase full of water and the glass is all over the place, you have to clean it up. But you should not have the expectation that a child's not going to do that, and you'll be better off. But yeah, that illustrates the point. It's harder to not have that expectation, the ones that impact you. But in relationships, for sure, that's true. One of the best things I ever did in my life was, you know, I had the thought of, "I'm no longer going to put expectations on people. I'm no longer going to allow them to put expectations on me." And when I did that, it completely changed my life. Obviously, you can't perfectly implement that, but just having that philosophy in life completely changed the way that I looked at life, and it freed me because it's also very burdensome trying to control people and trying to control emotions and situations. If you have to try and get everyone to act how you need them to act, that's a lot of administrative overhead and work that you have to do to keep everyone in line, micromanaging. But if you're like, "Look, you guys, everyone can do whatever they want to do. You can act how you want. I don't care. It doesn't matter. But if you act a certain way, I'm not going to have you in my life." And that's what I started actually doing with people. I started cutting people out of my life. I was like, "Yeah, you can talk to me like that if you want to, but if you talk to me like that, then I'm not going to talk to you." And people got really upset about that, but at that point, I didn't care because I'm like, "Okay, well, this is my standard." And I think what it comes down to is expectations make you weak, and standards make you powerful. Right? Like, even in the parenting situation, if you have expectations on your child, you have to nag them and constantly tell them what you need them to do because it's like your emotional well-being depends on them following through and doing the expectation. So that makes you weak because now you're beholden to them. Whereas if you have standards and you have consequences, boundaries, then you're powerful because you ultimately say what's going to happen, what's going to go, and you have that power within your own life. Right? Because every single one of us has the autonomy in our own life to be able to say who is in our life and who's not, and what we will do, and how we'll respond to them. And sometimes those things are things that we might not want to cut or create the consequences, but you can't have it both ways. The power that you have, every individual has, has that same power to say, "Yeah, if you act this way, if you do this thing, you're not in my life." And there's nothing wrong with having that. That's the other thing I want to talk about in this episode.

John: Before you go off on another thing, is this like a different side? Because I wanted to say something based on what you're saying right now. I was going to say, it's okay to have standards. But yeah, go ahead with what you're saying.

Nicole: Well, I want to kind of make it a little more clear, I guess, to like, you're making it clear, but I want people to understand what you said about power. Because they think having an expectation is power, like you said. But how is that actual power when, in your head, you are creating a scenario that no one else knows about, and then you're only happy when it's fulfilled, and all this is internal? No one sees any of this, right? You think in your mind it's power, right? But outwardly, it's nothing because it's all happening internally. Whereas if you have a standard, where you have to walk away once you've laid something out if it's not meeting your standard, that is the actual power that people can see. Because now you are implementing your power to walk away because you have a standard. Right? So, what they need to realize is, it might feel like you have the power when you have an expectation, but it's all internal. Nobody sees that. Whereas if you have a standard, it's internal because you're like, "Look, this happened, so now I have to do this." And you have that power, but also outwardly, you're expressing that. You're laying it out, and you're making it so everybody understands. And that is where the actual power lies, like you said. So, hopefully, that helps people realize that you have a false sense of power with expectations, whereas you actually have the power over yourself and the situation when you have standards.

John: Exactly, yeah. Because you're just executing on what you're saying that you're going to do. That's like, you, the power that you have is the access to you. No one gets access to you unless you allow that, and the amount of access, and that's what you have the ultimate, and you give that power away when you have expectations because now you're requiring people to do things, and you're not cutting off the access to you or the relationship with you that you could. That's the power that you have, like you said.

Nicole: That's right. The most powerful thing you have is your feet.

John: So, yeah. So, I was going to talk about how, you know, what, uh, because this comes up all the time, and this is something that I would say is a very popular thing for women to manipulate men with when men do...

John: Try to have standards or boundaries, right? And call them insecure or controlling and all of those things. So, I get a lot of times from a lot of guys that I work with where they're like, "Is it alright for me to have... are my expectations too high?" But what they mean is, "Are my standards too high?" That's what I correct them into. But a lot of guys are worried that, and even when we talk about some of the things like the six rules for the relationship that we put in, they're like, "Oh well, no one would... she would never accept that," or "No woman is going to accept that." And they feel like those are too high of expectations or too high of standards as well. My answer to all of that, whether you're male or female—it obviously applies both ways—but women generally have higher standards than men, like we talked about with the whole book talk thing fiasco. Women wouldn't accept the same thing that men will accept, in general. But whether you're male or female, when it comes to standards, you as a human being are entitled to like what you like and to not like what you don't like, and to choose who you have in your life and who you don't want to have in your life, and how you want your life to be and how you don't want it to be. And even if it's ridiculous to everyone else, even if I'm like, "Well, you know, I want to... whatever, ice cream, right? Like, if someone eats ice cream in my presence, then they are dead to me." Alright, that might be ridiculous, but it's... if I want to have that standard, no one can judge me. That's my choice. It might be foolish. I might end up with zero friends, but there's no point in arguing with me about it because that's what I'm choosing. So, it's like you can choose whatever it is, no matter what you say it is, no one else has the right to... because it's your life, and you get to choose how you're going to live your life and who you're going to have in your life. So, no standard is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it is. Now, if you choose standards of a certain height or something that is going to be perceived as ridiculous, then you're going to very much limit the number of people that will meet that standard. So, that's something that you have to make a judgment about. But realistically, whatever you want, that's what goes.

Nicole: Right. Well, when you were talking about how women call men controlling and insecure and all those things, it sparked an idea in my mind of how things should actually go. And you said women have higher standards, typically. I would say yes, but also, I feel like women have more expectations. And that's why they come across as manipulative, right? Because if you're one of these women with standards and a man says something to you and you genuinely think it's controlling to the point you tell him that's controlling, your standard should kick in and be like, "I don't want to be with someone like this," and you should instead walk away rather than trying to manipulate him by doing what you want to do. You need to accept that. Okay, let's say that a man's like, "No girls' night out, no guys' night out thing," you are very against that. Instead of calling him controlling and trying to get him to change his mind, you need to say, "I think we should go our separate way. I wish you the best," and go find someone. Granted, I don't think it's a good idea to still be participating in these things yourself first, but yeah. But I'm saying, you know, instead of trying to alter, especially someone that wants to have a more true monogamous and sacred sort of relationship by not participating in those things, you should not be trying to bring him to your level. You should go find someone that follows the same standards as you. And that's also why people have a lot of problems with our content, and I get that they have different standards than us. But instead of calling somebody controlling or calling them whatever name you want to call them, you should just choose not to be with that person or not to be friends with them or whatever you want. Uphold your own standards rather than trying to control and put expectations on other people. Like even when I'm in the comments talking to other people, I will listen to anybody's point of view as long as they're respectful presenting it, and they have actual logical explanations rather than, "This is stupid." Like, that is stupid. But the thing is, we're not putting expectations on people. We're not doing this podcast where we're expecting people to do exactly what we say. These are just our standards. They help us live a happier and healthier relationship and life, and that's why we're sharing it. And I think that if people actually upheld their standards, there would be less calling people controlling or insecure and instead be like, "Look, I don't think we align very well, and I hope you find somebody that does align with your values and your standards. And I wish you the best." Instead of trying to control people to do what we want to do. And that's why I think that women have more expectations because they're expecting men to do whatever they want. And that's why they say, "Hey, I'm... you know, no, I don't like that. You're being controlling. You need to calm down."

John: Yeah, and like you said, if a man did that to them, though, they would walk away. But they don't realize that they're doing it to men and instead trying to justify it rather than just walking away themselves.

Nicole: Exactly. And the thing about it too is that standards can be negotiated; expectations can't. So, in the instance where let's say you're dating a guy, and he says, "Yeah, I'm not big on no girls' night out, guys' night out. That's a standard that I have." You don't even just have to say, "Okay, we should go our separate ways." You could say, "Okay, well, let's have a discussion about it." This is... my standard is that I don't want someone telling me what I can and cannot do, and his standard is, "Well, I want... I don't want to be dating someone who's doing things that could jeopardize the relationship." And then you have a meeting of the minds, and at the end of the day, you get to decide if you're going to move standard or maybe for this person, this person is someone who you have a little bit of a different standard for, which is okay. It is okay to do that, but you have to make the conscious choice of it.

John: Right.

Nicole: And that's the thing, but expectation, you can't negotiate because, you know, it's... it's what you expect, right? Someone can manipulate you and browbeat you, but well, it's also in your head, right? Because the expectation remains. You can agree to something, and that, and sometimes that happens in relationships. I can think of a scenario where I'm working with a guy where the woman agreed to a lot of things, but her expectations didn't change because her standards didn't change. They didn't... there wasn't a true meeting of the minds in that case. So, even though she agreed to those things...

John: Things now, she felt like they were obligations because she had expectations that never changed, right? So what really needed to happen was those expectations needed to be gotten rid of, right? And a real decision needed to be made. Am I going to accept these things wholeheartedly? Are they going to become a standard? So that's where you can negotiate those things, but you have to start by getting rid of the expectation because once you have the expectation, then you can't... there's nothing that someone can work with. The only thing you can do is manipulate and browbeat someone when you have that expectation. And unfortunately, like you said, that's what happens a lot of times because anytime you ever say that's insecure, that's controlling, any of that kind of language, you are now the one who's controlling because what you're doing is always a manipulation because it's shaming language. It's always manipulation if you're trying to shame someone. The reason why you're doing it is because you want to change the way that they act or behave.

Nicole: Right. I wanted to emphasize a point that you made about discussing the standards, and I think that standards can and should change. Because think about it this way, when you first started dating at 18, your standards were probably bare freaking minimum. I know talking to our daughter, she's like, "I just want a guy to like me," right? Like, it's because it's young; it's not complicated right now, you know, like the dynamic of people liking each other. And even when you're 18 and you go out in the real world, like your standards are a lot more simple, right? You're probably just like, "I want someone to like me and maybe go to the same school as me, and we can hang out together or whatever." Like, they're more simplified. But as you date and as you figure out what you like, what you want in a long-term partner, your standards are going to change. And that's what I tell women when they're really discouraged about going on dates and things like that, and they're like, "Oh, I don't want to go on this date, or I don't want to tell somebody my life story all over again." I'm like, "Look, every date is an opportunity to figure out things about you, things about someone else, and things about what you want in a romantic dynamic." And so your standards should change, not because of someone else telling you to change them, but because of what you're experiencing and what you want in your life. Because our lives change so much, it's ridiculous to think that we just come up with these standards and they never change. They should change for the better.

John: Exactly. And so, like you said, you should be having a conversation, even if maybe your standards initially don't align. Have a full conversation about it because you might also see the other person's perspective a lot clearer and understand it more than you did before. You might not, and you might realize, "No, I'm pretty stern on this standard, and I don't really want to change it." And you can also have a respectable conversation about that as well, or whatever in between, right? Like, there's so many things that could happen, there's so many things that you could learn from having a conversation rather than instantly trying to shut it down with an expectation, being like, "No, you're controlling." Like, you should be hearing people out and why they want the things that they want because you might also be like, "Oh, I actually want the same thing." Like, the women who are upset about the girls' night out, guys' night out, going straight to being controlling, if they really heard him out and heard a good genuine explanation, like to keep their relationship something that's special and that there is no outside influences coming into that, like a bar/club setting, that's not a good situation for anybody in a relationship to be in just because of the environment. I think that a woman would be like, "Oh, he wants to honor our commitment to be with each other exclusively, even if you're not married, to have that exclusivity because that's what a relationship is. When you enter an exclusive relationship, you're excluding hanging out with people that you could get a romantic interest in." So it's like, if you guys sit and talk about it, you can understand where that person's coming from, and you might even change your standard, right? Like, even if you guys somehow broke up down the line or whatever, but you're in that relationship and you agreed to no girls' night out, guys' night out, the next relationship you get in, you might be like, "Hey, I don't want to do girls' night out, guys' night out. Like, I want to honor..." Like, you might adopt it. So you really should be hearing people out, especially if you're already in a relationship with them or you want to be. You should talk about your standards, you should listen to each other, explain them, and then decide. And if someone is actually being controlling, if a man is actually being controlling, right, you will know. And if it's that big of a deal, you will leave, right? You won't tell him he's controlling; you'll be like, "Actually, I don't think we're meant to be together. Again, wish you the best, but I'm going to exit." You're not going to make him less controlling by controlling him.

Nicole: Right. Exactly. As soon as you say you're controlling, now you're the one who's trying to control because why? What's the purpose of saying that? It's to get him to change his behavior, which is controlling. You know what I mean? If you're like, "Oh, that's how you think? Then I don't want to be in this relationship." But you really mean that, then you're not being controlling. Every time you have three choices: you can one, walk away; two, negotiate; or three, change your standard, accept whatever they're saying. And you have to choose one of those three things. Anything else is manipulation. Any other thing that you're trying to do besides one of those three options is manipulation because now you're trying to get someone to change something about themselves or change their standard or what they want without explicitly having that conversation.

John: Right. So that's the thing about it. But yeah, I agree. And it also just even applies to yourself, right? Because if you have expectations on yourself, what happens when you don't meet them? You beat yourself up, you get down on yourself, you get hard on yourself, right? You mentally beat yourself up. If you have standards, then what happens if you don't meet them? Then you say, "Okay, I fell short. This is what my standard is. This is how I live my life. This is how I should be living my life. That's what I've chosen." And then you get back up, and you try to meet that standard. And it's the same thing, I think, with people too. It's because I think it's unrealistic to just... A standard isn't something that you're also like, "Okay, if this ever happens..." I mean, some of them can be that, but in general, a lot of standards that you might have in your life and in a relationship shouldn't be like, "That's it. That's a nuclear option," because you can recognize that someone...

John: It's failing to meet your standard, and you can let them know that they're failing to meet your standard, and that's okay. But then you can decide that if someone repeatedly fails to meet your standard, do you want to be in a relationship with someone? Sometimes, it's going to be, "Hey, if they don't meet the standard once," or it's a general judgment. But many times, that's still a more healthy way rather than an expectation because when they don't meet the expectation, then you're emotionally upset at them.

Nicole: Right, and they don't know because it's in your head, the expectation. But if you have the standard and you say, "Hey, one of the things we talked about that was important to me was this, and you have failed to do this," now you can have a real conversation about it. Then they can say, "Oh yeah, I made a mistake. I understand that. I will do better," or they can say, "Nah, I actually don't agree with that."

John: Well, and I was going to say that a man might come across as controlling too if he's expressing an expectation rather than a standard. So, men do need to keep that in mind because if a man says to a woman, "I expect you not to cheat on me," that's controlling. It is controlling, and I understand that that is a logical expectation that a lot of people have when they get in a relationship. But if you're outright saying, "I expect you not to cheat on me," because expectations are more internal, but if you outright say them, they are controlling. You're telling them, "I expect you to do this," whereas if you're telling them a standard, it's like you mentioned earlier, "Hey, I like this, and I don't like this." That's how you're putting it out there. You're not telling them to do it; you're just telling them what you like and don't like, and it's their decision.

Nicole: Yeah, and then you will make your decision based on how they respect your standards or your boundaries. It's up to them. You're not forcing them. Like, "Hey, I don't like it when you go to the mall every day. I expect you not to do that." That's controlling. If you're like, "Hey, I don't like it when you go to the mall every day. Just letting you know," then they're free to do whatever they want. And then you're free to make your decision based on that. But if you're like, "I don't like it when you go to the mall every day. I expect you to stop doing that," or "You need to stop doing that," that's when you're controlling, and that's when you're putting the expectation on somebody.

John: I think the difference, though, and it's sort of a difficult line between the two, is if a man is leading the relationship and he's acting as the authority in their relationship, then he needs to say some things that are standards for the relationship itself or the way that things are going to be done in the relationship. So, there is, but again, it comes across depending on what you're trying to do. Because if you say, "Look, this is what we're going to do, or we're not going to do these things," that isn't necessarily controlling, especially if you're already in a position where someone has already submitted to your authority in that relationship or your leadership, and they're relying on you to do those things. However, if you start to say, "Hey, don't do this," and there's an emotional implication of consequence behind it, then it becomes manipulation and controlling.

Nicole: So, if you try to get someone to do what you want them to do, having consequences that are emotional consequences, "I'm going to be upset at you. I'm going to be mad at you. I'm going to treat you differently," now I've moved into the realm of controlling. Whereas if I'm a man who's leading the relationship and who you've accepted the authority in the relationship, I'm saying, "Okay, this is how we're going to do this. This is what is going to happen. We're not going to be doing these things." Those are things where, again, the person always has the option to not be in the relationship, but when they've chosen to agree to something, that standard has already been met.

John: Right, so there's a standard that says, "Hey, you know, if I'm going to be the captain of the ship, if I'm in a relationship, I'm the captain of the ship," that is a standard that I have. If you've agreed to that standard, then those things. But there's still a right way to do it, of course, and a leader should not be saying, "Don't do this." There should always be an explanation, and there should always be the purpose of trying to have the person understand where you're coming from because a good leader just doesn't bark orders. He makes people understand why he's doing what he's doing and explains that. And I understand in certain instances, there might be downright things that he says in certain circumstances as a leader when it's like a dire situation or it's dangerous, or there's something like that. And I'm not talking about that, but no leader is going to be like, "You can't do this," or "Don't do this." And if he does say those things, it's not just that sentence. It is explained, and it's explained why.

Nicole: Exactly, you know what I mean? And I do understand that in the instance of a man leading a relationship, he is going to be making some decisions. And I feel like if a woman feels like a guy is a genuine leader and does what I just said, she has no problem with doing what a man says. But guys, it'd be wrong of me to act like guys don't get it. Guys do say things that do come off as controlling, and some men are controlling, and some men aren't, but they're coming across the wrong way. And that's what I'm trying to tell them, and I know that's what you're trying to tell them too. Like, if they're trying to be a good leader, they need to do it in the right way. If they have to say, "Hey, we're not doing this," or "You can't do this anymore," he's going to explain it. He's not just going to be like, "I don't like it when you go to the mall, so I expect you not to do it." That still even needs some explanation, like why do you not expect her to do it? Is it because financially we need to conserve money, or is it?

John: Because a good leader is going to give that extra explanation rather than just say it. At the same time, if you don't agree with the explanation, that doesn't cancel it out because that goes into trying to control it. It should be a place where someone could discuss it with you, and they should if they feel that. But that's not to say that it will sway your opinion. The thing that differentiates that from being controlling or not is the intent, the intention, and the standard because it comes back to the original standard. If you're a man and you want a traditional relationship, like we have a modern traditional relationship, and you are the captain of the ship and you insist on being the leader, that is your standard. You are the head of the house, and you are with a woman who is not going to comply with that, even though she has said that she will, then your standard needs to be that you're not going to be in this relationship. That's where it's like, okay, if you've given instruction and said, "This is what I need you to do," and you've done it in the right way, obviously, and then you're getting rebellion on that, then you as a man can choose, "You know what, I made it very clear upfront that this was my standard, that you were going to trust me, I was going to lead this relationship, I was going to be the authority in this relationship and be the head of this relationship. Now you're not doing those things, and that's okay because you are a free person. You can choose what you want to do. However, I'm also a free person, and I can choose that I'm no longer going to be in this relationship." That's the thing that makes it where it's not controlling. Where guys do it wrong is because there's emotional manipulation that happens anytime that you're like, "If you don't do what I want, I will be upset at you. I will give you emotional consequences." That's what happens when you try to feign power when you don't really have power because that's the threat. It's like you always have the power to walk away, but when you choose not to walk away instead, you engage and then try to emotionally cause pain to another person in order to get them to do what you want them to do. That's when you're in the control area.

Nicole: I wanted to add one last thing because you were talking about specifically men being the leaders and having the standard with the captain of the ship, but there is another part to it that men need to realize. If that's your standard, the woman is also going to hold you to your standard. So if you're not being a good leader or you're not being a good captain of the ship, you need to listen to a woman telling you that. You can't have a standard and then not live up to your own standard. A captain of a ship doesn't have one job; he has tons of jobs. Unfortunately, when you're the leader, you have a lot of responsibility, and there are a lot of things that can slip through the cracks that people should still be able to hold you to the standard of what you are set there to do. It becomes an agreement, a negotiation of two people's standards together. It's like a contract. We talked about implicit contracts; this is an overt contract where you say, "Look, as the captain of the ship, these are my standards. Here is what I am going to agree to do. Here's how I'm agreeing to behave." We've negotiated this thing because no one would ever accept the standard of someone saying, "I'm just going to be in charge, and that's it." It's like, well, how are you going to act towards me? What are you going to put first? Those are the important questions to negotiate that contract because then it becomes an agreement, and then it's two people upholding their parts of the agreement because that's a mutual standard. Men need to know, I'm not saying that they don't understand, but sometimes people listen to certain things, and they're like, "Okay, so I just tell people what to do and tell them I'm the leader, and I got it," like some people genuinely think like that. It's more complicated than that, but if you understand what we're saying, then you'll be doing just fine. Even if there's an agreement, your remedy to someone breaking the agreement is not to browbeat them and manipulate them and tell them how they're breaking the agreement and what they need to do. Yours is to notify them of the breach of the agreement and then to give them a chance to remedy it and then have a discussion and then decide if you still want to be in the agreement. If someone else breaches the agreement, then you can say, "Okay, you're breaching the agreement. This is what you said; this is what you're doing. I'm not going to try and make you uphold your part of the agreement because that's still your will, your choice, but I'm no longer going to be in this agreement if that's the case." Otherwise, you end up manipulating each other into... which is a lot of people do.

John: It's your birthday.

Nicole: It's your birthday. Knock on wood, though. Just keep on knocking on...

John: Yeah, I'm just going to knock on wood every episode now, probably.

Nicole: If you see an episode doesn't come out, then you'll know it was a nuclear... Don't say that, jeez.

John: Now I am going to let me just like constantly, the whole time, just knock.

Nicole: No, we're learning. Don't be... You need to learn to not say those things.

John: I'm just too arrogant for my own good.

Nicole: You need to like, yeah, over mind, but let them go, let those thoughts... I just always believe I'm going to.

John: Win, you know, so well, hopefully we win in Vegas. You better knock on wood 'cause you're like, "I'm going to win." So, I have no expectation of just a standard that I must win.

Nicole: Just a standard of, "Okay, we'll see how that standard goes." We'll report back next week. And we do have a standard of reviews on the podcast, which we do appreciate the ones on Spotify. We got a lot of five-star reviews on Spotify, I think 18.

John: Yeah, that's a lot. Thank you. You can't add any text to it, but if you want to leave how you feel on the Apple podcast app, you can put it in there.

Nicole: Banana fingers, still the every week we say banana fingers. Just imagine that person, it could be yours.

John: Yeah, banana fingers.com. I mean, we appreciate if you said more than just banana fingers, but hey.

Nicole: But hey, we also appreciate that, you know, any kind of fruit fingers is good with us. So, but.

John: And if you want to be on the podcast, if you want some relationship help, coaching, if you want to do a live on the podcast, hey, we're down. Just email us at betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com. And hey, if you see the clips on our Instagram and our TikTok, well, not the TikTok, about the Instagram.

Nicole: MH.

John: And you're like, "Oh, I wonder what episode that is from." Well, now you can comment, or you can DM us with the episode number, right? And we'll send it to you automatically, magically. I mean, obviously, you know what episode it is, but if you're too lazy to go look it up, if you're like, "Oh, this clip was interesting. I want to see the full episode," you can just say, "DM us episode," it'll say it in the clip, and you can say, "Episode 5," and then you've got episode five, boom, right there.

Nicole: Right there. Alright, let's go win some money through every fault we find, no way.