John [00:00:00]: Today, most guys do not want to get married. What is the benefit for them to get married? I'll put you right on the spot.

Nicole [00:00:06]: I don't think men realize what, like, a good woman brings to his life until he's had one.

John [00:00:13]: He can just get the good woman. He doesn't have to marry her.

Nicole [00:00:15]: Figure out if you want to be with this person or not and then make the commitment.

John [00:00:19]: This might cause a divorce. No, I'm just kidding. Beyond the perfect we discovered through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. Welcome to the Better Than Perfect podcast. Every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other become better equals one better than perfect relationship. And since this is the first episode, I don't have the intro memorized yet.

Nicole [00:00:55]: We'll forgive you for now.

John [00:00:57]: Okay, well, I guess we could talk a little bit about just the podcast before we get into the episode. Today, we're going to be talking about marriage. Is marriage necessary in modern society? What is the purpose should you get married? Is there a purpose in getting married? Does it make sense? So I think that's exciting. Yeah. But. Yeah. So I guess we could talk a little bit about what we're doing here. This is my lovely wife, Nicole.

Nicole [00:01:25]: It's my handsome husband, John. He actually just got married. We'll talk a little bit more about that later.

John [00:01:32]: Now you ruined the end of the show.

Nicole [00:01:34]: I'm sorry. He can cut it out. But no, we.

John [00:01:38]: Not when you talk about it. That's the editor's nightmare. Editor's nightmare is when you say something wrong and then you talk about saying something wrong.

Nicole [00:01:47]: Well, look, I only did it briefly.

John [00:01:48]: So now it's all part of the episode, so it's staying.

Nicole [00:01:51]: Now, I don't know what to say because we're going to be talking about marriage, but I can't tell them that we're married, so. Yeah, well, that's going to be hard.

John [00:01:59]: But I did say, this is my wife, Nicole.

Nicole [00:02:01]: So. Yeah, so we've screwed this all up, but it's okay. It'll be good. Yeah. I mean, I don't know you.

John [00:02:09]: Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, the podcast.

Nicole [00:02:10]: Maybe we should just dive right in.

John [00:02:12]: I mean. Well, I mean, we could give people a little bit of what we're doing here. So, you know, we decided to build this podcast to talk about dating and relationships because that's something that I think a lot of people need help with today. And we've called it Better Than Perfect because we don't have A perfect relationship. But we think that we actually have a better than perfect relationship by not having a perfect relationship. Because it's actually those things that you have to work on on yourself and in the relationship that actually make things make you better and make the entire thing better. So it's kind of a synergistic effect. You know, one in one equals 3037 in our case.

Nicole [00:02:53]: But that's true. Yeah. I mean, a little background of us before we met John was doing, you know, well, he still does it, personal development for men and like dating tips and things like that. So, you know, I saw that on his profile and then I had on my profile a dating podcast that I was doing. It was nowhere near as official as this is, but I had fun doing it. And, you know, I was single, going on dates, and so I was using that for some content. And then when I came across John's profile and he was like, oh, we kind of do similar things, I was like, this is perfect content material. And I was like, at least I know we'll have a good conversation. And then like five hours later into our date, we're still talking at like 3:00am so, yeah, it just felt right for us to do something together, especially because we have differing opinions, which a lot of people, you know, they probably wouldn't think that is the case for some couple as close as us. Or even like, you know, I don't know, like, it's sometimes just the reality of it. Like you don't have to like agree with every single thing to still complement each other.

John [00:04:10]: And sometimes it's not even different opinion, it's different viewpoints. Which I think is valuable. Right. Is because you're always have, you have the female viewpoint, I have the male viewpoint. We might even have the same topic that we're just talking about something in a different way. Sometimes men and women use the same vocabulary, but it means different things.

Nicole [00:04:31]: Right, Exactly. Or different points added. Or you're like, oh, I didn't even think about it that way. So that's why we wanted to basically record our at home conversations because we will have three hour conversations still to this day about certain topics and we feel like it's beneficial to see both sides of those things. So here we are.

John [00:04:52]: Exactly. All right, well, let's jump right into the topic. I'll let you give your idea or your stance on this first. I mean, what do you think about marriage? I mean, it's a little biased, I guess, since now, you know, we just got married. But what are your thoughts on it. I guess I could start it off by. By saying that, you know, a lot of people today, especially a lot of men, say there's really no value in marriage today because why. Why get married? Like, what. What benefit is it to me as a man? So.

Nicole [00:05:27]: Yeah.

John [00:05:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:28]: Okay. Yeah, I have a lot of things, so I take marriage very seriously. But I don't come from, like, a religious background in that sense. I just always viewed it as, like, you know, I'm gonna think really hard about this decision. Cause I only really want to do it once. That's not to say that if I had made a mistake, I wouldn't get married again, you know, when I was younger. But, you know, I really wanted to do it once. So I think that's also what kept me single even when I was younger, is because I'm like, you know, is this. This person the one. No, I don't know. Like, you know, and I would even ask people, I'd be like, you know, what is. Yeah, how do you know? And then, like, they'd be like, you just know. And I'm like, that doesn't feel like it really helps. But it is true, in fact. But yeah, so I think it's a very serious thing. I think that it takes a lot of information from, like, dating and from, like, who you are, who you want to be, how you guys coexist together, and a whole bunch of different, you know, dynamics. You know, you have to talk about parenting before you even parents. You have to talk about, you know, finances. You have to talk about those things at a certain point to make sure that you can go through all that stuff. Because it's a really big deal, obviously.

John [00:06:49]: So the question is, then why, you know, why? Why. Why do it? Like, is it worth doing today? Like, what is it?

Nicole [00:06:54]: I think, since it is a serious thing in my mind, I think that it's the ultimate, you know, level of devotion to somebody. It's the ultimate level of commitment. And if you do care about this person to spend the rest of your life with, why are you so afraid to make it legal? Which I understand that, like, men are afraid of their money, which I get, you know, and some women are afraid of their money, too. You know, it goes both ways, but, you know, it's. It comes down to, like, if you're afraid to lose your money to get a divorce, should you even get married? Like, you. It goes back to those questions you need to ask, right? Like, if you're that afraid that this person might, you know, spend all your money or cheat on you or whatever, you know, ends up causing a divorce.

John [00:07:45]: Divorce you and then take half your money. I think that's the most men have. And then take your kids and you.

Nicole [00:07:50]: Not see your kids again. If you are getting to that point, though, did you not vet this person well enough? And to be honest, I think that women probably vet a little harder than men might, you know, like, yeah, I think that's true.

John [00:08:04]: I think biologically that's true. I mean, like, from a evolutionary biology perspective, women have to carry a baby for nine months, so their investment of picking the wrong man is much higher consequence. The guy picks the wrong girl, it doesn't matter.

Nicole [00:08:21]: He can spread his seed where he would like. But yeah, so I'm saying, like, you know, I feel like girls typically do a little bit more, but it's not like guys should be doing it too, because it would also erase this fear to some degree of, like, what if she divorces me and takes all my money?

John [00:08:39]: If you vetted the person.

Nicole [00:08:40]: Right.

John [00:08:40]: But then a lot of people change, right? They seem to be one. Especially a common complaint that guys say in marriage. And I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate because, I mean, I do.

Nicole [00:08:53]: Because you're a guy.

John [00:08:54]: Right. Well, but the complaint is that a woman will change once she has commitment. And I think there's some validity to that claim by a lot of guys. In a lot of cases that does end up becoming the case. Now, I have some reasons why I think that ends up becoming the case, which is not just because a woman just changes, but a lot of guys are correct in saying that once a woman has commitment, and especially they say when she becomes married, that things change, she changes.

Nicole [00:09:25]: Well, I'm interested. How does a woman change? Like, typically, I know one way, but I feel like that could be a whole nother episode here. But, like, does. Are you saying, like, the guy feels like he doesn't change and just she changes or like, what?

John [00:09:47]: Yeah, I mean, I would say that. Again, not from firsthand experience, but from the stories I've heard from a lot of guys complaining about. Different about this topic is that they would say that she changes from, like, where she is very sweet and kind to the guy and respects him to taking him for granted. I wouldn't even say taking him for granted. That's more of a female language is what a woman would say. But more of, like, now, disrespecting him, nagging him, treating him like he's an annoyance, and not having sex with him. Right. Not having. Having A lower desire for. Those are probably the chief complaints, I would say.

Nicole [00:10:29]: Okay. I mean, here's how I look at it. That could be happening potentially. I think that most people, when they're dating and even before they're married, they're almost on their best behavior.

John [00:10:45]: Right, right, right.

Nicole [00:10:46]: And so it is kind of normal for a dynamic to change when a couple gets, like, comfortable with each other, but it still shouldn't be, like, nagging or anything like that. But I think that also, too, when people get married, they're like, oh, well, now I don't have to dress up, or I don't have to take her on dates anymore. And. And so it's like you're taking away those things that were there when you were. Even when you were, like, seriously dating and up until you got married. And those things kind of go out the window because, I mean, I'm sure other people have, you know, watched other things, other videos on the Internet of, you know, couples saying that the key is to, like, still date each other type of thing, because that's what keeps the feelings the same, because you're still, you know, going out and doing fun things, and you appreciate each other and things like that. And so, you know, it's. But there's a lot to what you just said, because she also could be, like, resenting him for some things, and.

John [00:11:47]: They'Re not communicating, and that builds up over time.

Nicole [00:11:50]: Right.

John [00:11:50]: Because a lot of guys don't know how to handle a woman's emotions.

Nicole [00:11:54]: Yeah.

John [00:11:55]: They try to logic it. She feels like her emotions aren't validated. That stacks up over time to the resentment, gets to the point of nagging. And. And I think that is true. But I mean, that still even begs the question of why. What. Why go through all that? Like, why deal with that? You know, from.

Nicole [00:12:12]: From a man's perspective, marriage is becoming one. Right, right. Like, and I'm not saying you have to have that in order to, like, be one. Like, you don't have to get married to be one. Because, to be honest, when we got married, yeah, it felt the same.

John [00:12:28]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:29]: Because it's like, I also feel like sometimes. And it's more. So the woman's perspective, I would say, is that, like, women sometimes just want a wedding. Like, they just want to find somebody to get married. And then, like, it's all sunshine, rainbows until she gets to where she want, like, wanted to go. And then now there's no more shiny things unless she has, like, a baby. You know, like, that's like a height of, yeah, a woman's life a lot of the time. So like I understand where men probably wouldn't see being married as like a big deal. It is more like a, a woman's thing. But I still think that like something about like becoming one in all the ways that you can become one. That's like cuz when you legally get married, you're also taking on things from your partner, you know, like financially and things like that. And so it's like someone is trusting you to this level to like literally become one in all the ways.

John [00:13:32]: Right, right.

Nicole [00:13:33]: And it does make things easier like health wise, like if something happens, they go straight to you. They're not gonna be like, you know, when I was single, be like who? It's my caller.

John [00:13:43]: But I mean that's a pretty weak argument for like, I mean, it's less planning. It is true. But I mean I would say though that, okay, so I mean to not play the devil's advocate now is. Well, I mean, it's very difficult to have a family without a marriage. Right.

Nicole [00:14:02]: It would be a little confusing for your kids.

John [00:14:04]: Well, and just the binding factor of, you know, of the commitment and I think that's primarily the thing that I would say is that it's very difficult to build something with someone unless there is some kind of a strong foundation. Like if you know that if you try to build your life with someone and you think if they change their mind or something, they're going to disappear and then everything you've built crumbles, you're not going to invest very much. So having a very strong investment where you have something that is, even if you didn't feel like being with this person, you're married to them. So you've got to kind of stick it out, at least to figure out it's a tighter thing than just being a couple, you know what I mean? Or just living with each other, it makes the stakes higher. And especially I think the stakes become really high. Where. Because again, I got asked this question a lot about why get a wedding? Why spend all this money on a wedding? You're a smart guy, why would you waste money on a wedding? And the answer, I think is because you are making the stakes even higher. Right? Because you're setting yourself up to make it so that it's like, I mean, if you're doing things right, I would think you've made this choice, you've made this commitment in your sane, rational mind and now you want to put some safety bumpers on there just in case you go crazy and you get out of your mind, and you're like, I don't want to do this anymore. You've got some bumpers to kind of keep you in there. It's funny, but it is. Because if you invest 20, 30, $50,000 into a wedding, you do this in front of all of your friends and family, and especially if you write your own personal vows and it's on video, then if you back out on that, I'm not saying you couldn't, and I'm not saying that in an abusive situation or something that you shouldn't, but I'm saying that there's a lot more skin in the game there. And so that might be seen as a negative to a lot of guys, but it's also positive because it means that that level of commitment that you can build something with a bigger investment, because you know that for either people to get out of it, it's gonna be a lot.

Nicole [00:16:14]: But, you see, it's funny you even phrased it that way, like, financially, like, it's still really a financial thing with men. Like, let's be real. It is. Like, that's what scares them the most about doing it. And even you just said, like, that is how they show that they're even more invested is financially they put into it. So. And, like, I can't speak for all women, but obviously, most women want love and happiness in the family and whatever that their future looks like, you know? And so for us, like, it's more so, like, you look at your partner and you're like, like, can I deal with his contacts everywhere on the floor for the rest of my life? Like, what? I want my kids to grow up and be like him and, like, all these things, which, by the way, ladies, is very important to, like, ask yourself when you're looking at your partner before you get married. But I like to think that we, like, go through all these things. You know, we take the time. Not all of them, but, you know, we want to make sure that we're making the right decision. And then, you know, we're going towards that goal of, like, love. And, you know, because every girl wants, like, a fairy tale, whatever fairy tale it is, but they want, like, to be happy and be in love, right?

John [00:17:28]: But it's like, okay, so, I mean, again, I agree with what you're saying. It makes sense from a woman's perspective, right? And to play the devil's advocate, again, from a guy's perspective, you're not risking very much. He's risking a lot. Usually, Right. Because court systems as they are, family courts, it's usually not in a guy's favor. There's some bias there, which reasonably so because it is, you know, it is more likely that a woman is going to take better care of child, you know, and then I'm getting crucified for saying that one. But it is. We know this is true. Like, people can fight it and say, no, no. And I'm not saying that it's always the case, but in general, right. We would say there's a lot more deadbeat dads than there are deadbeat moms. Right. So.

Nicole [00:18:12]: But see, even what you just described, like, it all sounds to me like men don't take the time to pick to vet the right way woman. Because, like, if you're really afraid one going back a little bit, I don't think people change that much. Like, the core of who someone is does not change.

John [00:18:32]: I agree with you.

Nicole [00:18:33]: But other things do. And so if you have a woman that, you know, you thought was a perfect angel and then you get married and she's like, not because she's the complete opposite. Like, that was always there, right. But you didn't really get deep enough to figure that out. And so, like, I'm not even saying you have to be with somebody a super long time before you get married, but you have to get deep to their core, see who they are, see all the good days, all the bad days, all the whatever days, and be like, yes, I can do this for the rest of my life. Like, and I've been with him so much, and I've been around him so much, and I've seen him in different situations that I know who he is. And so then if you change, it's like, well, he just lost his mind or something. Like, something's off.

John [00:19:20]: Yeah. Cause that core isn't gonna change. And I mean, I think I would take it one step further even to say that for a man, right. If he's doing things right. I mean, not to say that he shouldn't pick carefully as well, but a lot of. And I'm sure we'll talk about this in later episodes because there's a lot to say on this. But I believe that a lot of the way a woman acts in a relationship is a direct reflection of the man that she's with. Right.

Nicole [00:19:45]: Because yeah, that needs to be a whole.

John [00:19:47]: Because men are leaders. Women are followers. They want to be led. They want a man that is going to.

Nicole [00:19:54]: Even if they don't know it, even.

John [00:19:56]: If they don't know it exactly, but the instinct is there. And so a man's behavior really shapes. I always think of it as a woman's. Like a garden, that the man is the gardener, and depending on what seeds he plants and how he waters those seeds, that's the crop that he gets. And a lot of guys get the nagging crop. They get nagweed.

Nicole [00:20:18]: But now that you said that, going back to what you said about, oh, my wife, she nags at me and tells me, do this, do that.

John [00:20:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:27]: I really think, though, if he sprinkled a little more water on his garden.

John [00:20:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:34]: Then it would throw some flowers. Like, even in that situation, you're right. I don't think, like, for it to be very, very bad. Like, it has to go on for a long time with no attempts, you know? And so. And even walking away sometimes is, like, what you end up having to do. So I'm not saying that, like, some people who don't have these issues, maybe they should separate. I'm not saying that. But I think it is important to take the time in the beginning. And even when you're dating, date with intention and try to really get to know who someone is deep down. And then that way you'll have confidence and not feeling afraid that, is this person gonna totally change on me? Because you already know who they are. You've seen them in any instance. So it's like, nothing is gonna surprise you, right?

John [00:21:27]: And you should. I mean, you should always go into something of that level of commitment with the idea that if this person never changes at all, I'm okay with that. Like, whatever their behaviors are now 100%, if you're like, oh, well, I hope they improve and they get better at.

Nicole [00:21:41]: This, don't do it.

John [00:21:43]: It's not good. But it still doesn't. Like, still, you know. I guess the question that I would.

Nicole [00:21:48]: Ask you still don't think marriage is.

John [00:21:51]: I mean, I obviously think so. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. Especially after being divorced once and already, like, losing half of my stuff.

Nicole [00:22:00]: Well, then I should ask you.

John [00:22:03]: Well, hold on.

Nicole [00:22:04]: I already answered.

John [00:22:05]: I mean. Well, the question really is, though, is what is in it for the dude? Right? Like, there's a lot in it for the.

Nicole [00:22:13]: This sounds a lot like, what do you bring to the table?

John [00:22:15]: Well, I mean, it's a variation of the question. It's like. But if a guy's like, seriously, like, why should I get married, though? Like, what benefit is it to me? Right?

Nicole [00:22:23]: I mean, I can only answer from my perspective. And I would be like, why are you so opposed to it? Which is like. So why isn't the answers I've given you enough?

John [00:22:32]: Because what. It still doesn't sound like a real good benefit for a guy, like, based on that.

Nicole [00:22:38]: Well, you didn't tell me for a guy. You just said, what's the benefit of getting married?

John [00:22:42]: Well, I mean, the debate. I think most women still want to get. I guess less women want to get married today, but still most women want to get married. And, and I would say today most guys do not want to get married. There's probably a huge percentage of guys. I don't know what the exact number is. They're like, oh, there's no point. Why would I get married? I'm never going to get married.

Nicole [00:22:59]: I mean, so how.

John [00:23:00]: What is the benefit for them to get married? I'll put you right on the spot.

Nicole [00:23:04]: I mean, I know my honest opinion.

John [00:23:07]: Okay. Yeah.

Nicole [00:23:09]: So I don't think men realize what, like a good women, a good woman.

John [00:23:14]: What Good.

Nicole [00:23:15]: No good woman. Just a good woman brings to his. Until he's had one. And.

John [00:23:24]: Well, wait a minute. Okay, I agree with that. But he can just get the good woman. He doesn't have to marry her.

Nicole [00:23:31]: Yeah, well, because women don't have the standards. Yeah. Women should not, like, settle for that. And especially if that's what she really wants. You should not be like, just allowing a man to keep you as a girlfriend for the rest of your days.

John [00:23:43]: It's also kind of like, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Nicole [00:23:46]: Exactly. But that's why you don't.

John [00:23:47]: We're also giving it up too early too, like just.

Nicole [00:23:51]: Well, that's, you know, again, gotta get a level of commitment. But.

John [00:23:56]: But yeah, but I mean, I mean, just to go on that a woman should have a higher standard to be like, like, I'm not gonna.

Nicole [00:24:02]: Right.

John [00:24:03]: Like one year, if we're not going somewhere, goodbye, we're engaged, or that's. That's it. I think that's reasonable to me. I know a lot of guys are not gonna like that. But if one, if in one year you cannot figure out if this person is the one for you, then they're not.

Nicole [00:24:17]: I mean, I agree. I would agree with that.

John [00:24:19]: Right. Because that's enough time to know. Right. Because it should be so. It should be so in order for you to take this huge step in your life where you're potentially involving two sets of families, potentially children and all this stuff, you should be so sure about it that it doesn't even take you a year to figure it out that you're like, this is like, otherwise, just don't do it.

Nicole [00:24:38]: I would like to personally ask some guys that have waited super long, what is going on? I mean, even your sister's boyfriend at our wedding was like, I've dated. I dated a girl for seven years, and then we got married and it didn't work out. And then I dated one for, like, one year and got married. That didn't work out either. But I liked her better. And I was like, okay. But it's like, you know, so I'm curious about that, too. Why guys wait because they don't see.

John [00:25:03]: Any advantage to getting married, right? That's. It brings it right back to the question. It's like, what is really in it for the man?

Nicole [00:25:09]: They only look at the negatives.

John [00:25:12]: But what's the positive for the man? Like, what is.

Nicole [00:25:14]: Here's the positive. Yeah, like. Like we just talked about any, like, respectable woman is not gonna stay your woman for as long as you want. And sure, you can go out and find a new woman every night if you want to, but at the core of who we are as human beings, we like to have relationships, right? And so it's that, like, depth of what a marriage is. I know it's not really, like, I can't tell you anything beneficial, like, financially, because, I mean, like, unless you got a sugar mama, then congrats for you because, like, go ahead. Like, you know, do you. But, you know, what men focus on is, like, the financial and the legal part, right? And they're not looking at, like, you are showing the person you're with this, like, ultimate, like, commitment and love, like, you're choosing to, like you said, take the risks of maybe losing some of your stuff in the future. But I can guarantee you that if a woman's marrying you, most of the time, she wants to be with you, she wants to have kids with you, she wants to get old with you and sit on rocking chairs in the front porch with you.

John [00:26:21]: So the benefit for him in this case is that he gets her appreciation that she. That he recognizes that level of Kim, you know, I mean, like, I suppose.

Nicole [00:26:33]: Look, I can't tell you the guy's side because I do feel. I agree with you. I feel like guys just look at, like, the financial. The risks, right? And all that stuff. And of course, like, if you're in this situation that doesn't have any, like, hugely added benefits, unless you're in the military and you get married, then men get benefits but like, it. It's about like the greater whole of it. And I think there is a part of, like, legally, you know, a woman taking your name and carrying on your legacy and like your family is a huge deal.

John [00:27:06]: Okay.

Nicole [00:27:06]: Like, yeah, like, it's like, you know, like a king having either a queen or like just some peasants, girls that come in, you know, here and there, like.

John [00:27:16]: Or both. Both. Had both.

Nicole [00:27:19]: What makes a king look better? I mean, you're not wrong, but who gets to sit up there with the king?

John [00:27:23]: Yeah, that. Okay, well. Okay, here, I'll. I'll present an argument for. Cuz I. I made this choice, right, To. To get married as a man who didn't really need to make the choice. I mean, you didn't even say, hey, you need to get married.

Nicole [00:27:36]: You're like, I wanted to.

John [00:27:37]: Like, I wanted to have a. I.

Nicole [00:27:38]: Know you wanted, but.

John [00:27:39]: But you're like, I. I mean, because I had just gone through a divorce. So you're like, look, I understand if you never want to get married again. We'll just stay together. Right.

Nicole [00:27:47]: I still would probably.

John [00:27:48]: That's what you said. Eventually.

Nicole [00:27:51]: I mean, eventually hoping that, you know, we had this relationship that I was like, if I really want to get married, which he knows that I do, then, you know, we'll get there eventually. But. Yeah, I didn't want to, like, rush you.

John [00:28:03]: Yeah. There was no, no pressure at all. Like, it was like I felt like I had all the time in the.

Nicole [00:28:07]: World, which I feel like we need a side note right now and maybe mention what we were talking about, like, pressuring, getting pressured to marriage.

John [00:28:14]: That's a no. No, that's it.

Nicole [00:28:16]: I feel like it doesn't usually end well.

John [00:28:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:19]: Like, if it's like an ultimatum or like some sort of like, you know, pressure thing, which I'm not saying that, like, if once you get to a year, you shouldn't reflect and be like, do I want to be this person? Do I want to not.

John [00:28:31]: But it shouldn't be.

Nicole [00:28:32]: You need to leave.

John [00:28:33]: Well, it's. Yeah. It shouldn't be used as an ultimatum, Right. To be like, look, you know, I'm really interested in going somewhere, right. And with someone and taking a higher level of commitment and it doesn't seem like you're there. And that's okay.

Nicole [00:28:49]: Right. It still has to be done.

John [00:28:50]: But I need to. I need to. Yeah, that's. Then it doesn't sound like an ultra when it's like, if we're not married by the end of this year, I'm Leaving, then that's an ultimatum you're twisting.

Nicole [00:29:00]: Someone's giving you an ultimatum, and it usually is women.

John [00:29:03]: Yeah, it's not good.

Nicole [00:29:05]: A year or less. Do not. You should just break up.

John [00:29:08]: Yeah, a woman should. It's kind of funny because I think we're giving some contradict or what seemingly contradictory advice. But I think we would agree that a woman should maybe wait around for a year, and if nothing's happening in the air, then she should consider leaving the relationship. Not threatening to leave, but just leaving it. Because, hey, it's not going somewhere the guy's not.

Nicole [00:29:30]: Right. Yeah. I'm saying, being like, hey, I gave you a year to see your husband material, and, you know, and I don't think it's gonna work out. Like, it still has to be. Like, I don't. I think it's just.

John [00:29:41]: And maybe a year is a short. I mean, I'm being, you know, a little. Maybe it's two years. I don't know. It's somewhere you could judge, but it has to be some reasonable time frame. Like, you're like, women aren't getting any younger. Okay. So, you know, their time is precious.

Nicole [00:29:55]: The ultimatum is like, I could see a woman saying it and not be a red flag. Is when it's been, like, seven years.

John [00:30:01]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:30:01]: Then you had kids or something, and you're like, where the heck is my ring?

John [00:30:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:05]: Like, I can see that because you've already basically, like, established the thing. But do you see where, like, yeah, you can not get married, but that also, like, is doing something to your wife or, like, well, not your wife, obviously, but, you know, your girlfriend, like, making her feel like, is something wrong with our relationship? Like, you know, what am I doing? You know, like, and she might break up with you, and you realize you did want to marry her, but you were just, I don't know, like, waiting around for seven years. I don't know. But it's.

John [00:30:36]: Or you didn't see the advantage. That's the thing is like.

Nicole [00:30:38]: But, like. But, like, now. But now you lost somebody. And, like, some people have kids and they're not even married, and they've been together that long, and now, like, what's gonna happen with your kids? And also, your kids are watching you treat their mother this way.

John [00:30:53]: You know, most of the time, making her. Not making her an honest woman.

Nicole [00:30:58]: Well. And most of the time, the moms are, like, obviously upset that their boyfriend hasn't proposed.

John [00:31:03]: Right.

Nicole [00:31:03]: And so then the kids are seeing that, and then they're like, I don't know what's going on, but, like, I guess you can just be upset that your dad doesn't. I don't know. It's just like. It's more messy than if you just, like, figure out if you want to be with this person or not and then make the commitment.

John [00:31:19]: Okay, so let me give you the. Like, my. Like, why did I get married then?

Nicole [00:31:23]: Okay.

John [00:31:24]: Okay. This might cause a divorce. No, I'm just kidding. No. So. Okay. So, yeah, so I was in a position where I didn't really need to get married. Like I said, you weren't pressuring me. There was no reason. I'd just gone through a divorce. There was no reason for me to get married. Nothing was forcing me. There wasn't any kind of ultimatum or anything. So why would I voluntarily do this? That's what a lot of people ask me. But the answer is it's a couple of things. One, I'll draw an analogy, because I think that the advantage that if a man says, what is in it for me in marriage? And I think the answer is the intimacy. Because getting a real depth of a relationship is something that you cannot replace and you cannot find, but you can.

Nicole [00:32:11]: Get that without the marriage.

John [00:32:13]: You can't get it as deep. And I'll tell you why. Okay. Okay. If I was a type. If I was a type rope walker. If we were walking on tightrope, right? Okay. And I needed to walk across this tightrope, all right? And, you know, and there's no net underneath, okay. I'm gonna be really careful in walking across the tightrope, right? If you're like, hey, you should try and do a. Do a spin on there, I'll be like, no, I'm just gonna try and do this safely, right? If there's a net, right? Then I'll do all kinds of tricks. I don't care. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna have fun with it, right? I'm gonna go deeper with it, right? Like, there's less risk involved in it, right? And so marriage is kind of like a safety net. It allows you to go deep. And what I mean by deep is that to make a deep emotional investment in a person. Because if I make a deep emotional investment in you and we're not married, and you could just change your mind tomorrow and just. And that's it. Not to say that in a marriage that someone doesn't do that, but again, it's a much heavier decision. You can bank on it. I mean, especially you're going to change your name and do all this stuff. There's a lot of steps and you got to tell your parents now and you know, all the money they spent on the wedding, you're like, ah, you know, you better at least last two years. Right. So, but, but you see what I'm saying, it's like, it's a safety net because now you can emotionally invest deeper in that person knowing that they're not going anywhere. And I think a lot of people have shallow relationships and especially shallow relationships today because there isn't a level of commitment to it. And even though, you know, a lot of guys are afraid of commitment and it's, it is a, it is a risk that a man does have to take. That, that safety net of knowing that the person's going to be there allows both parties to invest deeper because they know that. Because when you open up emotionally more and you become more intimate, you become more vulnerable and you can be hurt more. And so people just won't do that unless they have a very high level of trust. And what better trust than bond between in front of your friends and family?

Nicole [00:34:21]: And you know, how does marriage give you that? Because, I mean, I feel like you could have that with a long term relationship.

John [00:34:27]: Well, because like I said, the big investment.

Nicole [00:34:30]: So it's really, what you're saying is it's like legally forcing you to have to work things out rather than just being like, we're breaking up.

John [00:34:36]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:34:37]: Okay.

John [00:34:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:38]: So it's kind of like, like legally making guys have to not run away.

John [00:34:44]: Yeah. Or women not run.

Nicole [00:34:45]: I mean, I know, but you said.

John [00:34:47]: From guys and both, both parties do run away sometimes. Regardless. Marriages treated a lot lighter than today. Right. People don't really take it as serious of a commitment.

Nicole [00:34:56]: Well, we're not being like shunned for being divorced these days, but it still should be taken seriously. I'm just saying that like, you know, back then people couldn't even get out of like abusive situations. But so at least now it's like, you know, people who are leaving abuse and stuff, they don't get like, you know, shunned from the rest of the town. But I get what you mean. It's like people are just not taking it as seriously though.

John [00:35:20]: So that's. Yeah. So that's one reason is I wanted to have that depth. Right. To like, I feel like. And, but also what was important to me was that I love you and I care about you and I know that it's something that is really important to you and it makes you feel special. As a woman, because a guy is willing to take the risk, especially a guy that's already taken the risk and has lost that bet. Right? Like, it's a true show of my. If you actually care about a person as a man, you care about a woman and you love her, then why would you not want to give her the best possible life? Right?

Nicole [00:36:01]: I mean, I agree.

John [00:36:02]: Because if you're asking a question, well, what's in it for me? You're actually asking the wrong question, because that's not what. If you have to ask that question, then you shouldn't get married. Then you already have the answer to it. But if you don't have to ask that question because you're like, all I care about is making this person have the best possible life that I can provide for them. Right. Then there's your answer. So that's it for me.

Nicole [00:36:28]: I mean, I feel like it still kind of goes back to just making sure you know the person that you're even with. Because I feel like, even as a guy, I know I'm not a guy. But if I'm focusing on, like, the risks and stressing about that, I would be like, why am I focusing on that? Rather than, like, I love this person, like you just said, and I want to show them my commitment to them and things like that. So a guy who even asks that would make me be like, maybe he needs to think about the person that he's with. Because, you know, you said before I came along that you weren't gonna get married.

John [00:37:02]: Yeah, no, I was not. I was really in my head again, this is why I think this topic is good, is because I was like, there's no way. Why would I do it? There's no benefit to me. And arguably, I could still say there's, quote, no benefit to me. Because, again, that's not the. Well, the benefit to me is that you get to see how much that I love you. That's the benefit to me, because that's what I want. Like I said, asking the question of what is the benefit for me is the wrong question. That's not how I looked at this. I didn't say, what is the benefit to me. Because if I looked at it that way, I would be looking at it through the wrong lens.

Nicole [00:37:40]: Well, I mean, because again, guys look at it more of, like, a financial thing, so you're not getting, like, anything like that. But women look at it as more of, like, a love thing, and that's the difference. Guys don't really look at as much As a love thing, like you did. Because that's why you agreed to do it. Because you were like, I love this person. And, like, this will make her happy. But most guys aren't, like, Even, like, you just answered. Most guys are like, I'm not really benefiting from this.

John [00:38:04]: Well, I wouldn't want you to miss out on the moment of being engaged. Right. Of getting engaged, of having that experience or having the experience of walking down the aisle in your wedding dress. Those are things that are culturally ingrained into young women. But they're there and they're real. And they are the things that a lot of women fantasize about or hope that someday that they'll have that. Who am I to rob you of that experience? If I. If I truly love you, then why would I rob you of that experience? Yeah. Maybe there's a financial risk to me. Sure. But it's. But I'm sure of. You have to be sure of your decision, so.

Nicole [00:38:47]: Right. Yeah. I was just gonna say, it just seems the same goes back to, like, who are you marrying?

John [00:38:53]: I guess we should probably wrap it.

Nicole [00:38:55]: Oh, it's been an hour.

John [00:38:57]: Yeah. We gotta do. But we have to do our last segment. Right. Which is. We're going to now do. We're going to end every episode with a personal story from our own life. Relationship story. Like, what's happened to us this week? So.

Nicole [00:39:12]: And I already spoiled it. But we got married this week. Well, we had our ceremony on Sunday, and it was really nice. And Rodrigo was there just videoing. But, yeah, it was everything I've ever imagined. But I couldn't imagine it really in my brain because not until you came along.

John [00:39:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:33]: But. Yeah. So how. I mean, how did you feel about it?

John [00:39:38]: Yeah, I mean, it was wonderful. I mean, you look amazing. Beautiful. I had a lot of fun, actually.

Nicole [00:39:46]: Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

John [00:39:47]: I didn't expect to have a lot of fun, but it was fun. It went so fast. Yeah, it went so fast.

Nicole [00:39:51]: Like, that's a very true thing. But, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was, like, more intimate. Not, you know, like a crazy rowdy thing. But that was perfect. I felt very me and you.

John [00:40:04]: Yeah, I agree. All right, well, next week we'll have some dirt. Maybe some.

Nicole [00:40:09]: Some dirt.

John [00:40:10]: You know, just like, what relationship issue did we tackle? And then, you know, that's true.

Nicole [00:40:14]: It's like, yeah, I'm sure we'll have something.

John [00:40:16]: Yeah, we'll have something like that, but that's it. All right, we'll see you next time. Through every fault we find our way.