John: Today, most guys do not want to get married. What is the benefit for them to get married? I'm putting you right on the spot.

Nicole: I don't think men realize what a good woman brings to his life until he's had one. He can just get the good woman; he doesn't have to marry her. Figure out if you want to be with this person or not, and then make the commitment. This might cause a divorce. No, I'm just kidding.

John: Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. Welcome to the Better Than Perfect podcast. Every week, we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other become better equals one better than perfect relationship. And since this is the first episode, I don't have the intro memorized yet.

Nicole: We'll forgive you for now.

John: Okay, well, I guess we could talk a little bit about just the podcast before we get into the episode today. We're going to be talking about marriage. Is marriage necessary in modern society? What is the purpose? Should you get married? Is there a purpose in getting married? Does it make sense? So, I think that's exciting.

Nicole: Yeah, so I guess we could talk a little bit about what we're doing here. This is my lovely wife, Nicole.

John: It's my handsome husband, John. And we actually just got married. We'll talk a little bit more about that later.

Nicole: Now you ruined the end of the show.

John: I'm sorry. He can cut it out.

Nicole: No, we not. When you talk about it, that's what the editor's nightmare is. When you say something wrong and then you talk about saying something wrong.

John: Well, look, I only did it briefly, so now it's all part of the episode. So, it's staying now. I don't know what to say because we're going to be talking about marriage, but I can't tell them that we're married.

Nicole: Well, that's going to be hard. But I mean, I did say, "This is my wife, Nicole."

John: So, yeah, so we've screwed this all up, but it's okay. It'll be good. I mean, the podcast. Maybe we should just dive right in.

Nicole: Well, I mean, we could give people a little bit of what we're doing here. We decided to build this podcast to talk about dating and relationships because that's something that I think a lot of people need help with today. And we've called it Better Than Perfect because we don't have a perfect relationship, but we think that we actually have a better than perfect relationship by not having a perfect relationship. It's actually those things that you have to work on yourself and in the relationship that actually make things better. So, it's kind of a synergistic effect. One and one equals 3,037 in our case.

John: That's true. A little background of us before we met. John was doing, well, he still does, personal development for men and dating tips and things like that.

Nicole: I saw that on his profile, and then I had on my profile a dating podcast that I was doing. It was nowhere near as official as this is, but I had fun doing it. I was single, going on dates, and so I was using that for some content. Then when I came across John's profile and he was like, "Oh, we kind of do similar things," I was like, "This is perfect content material." At least I know we'll have a good conversation. And then, like, 5 hours later into our date, we're still talking at like 3:00 a.m.

John: So, yeah, it just felt right for us to do something together, especially because we have differing opinions, which a lot of people, you know, they probably wouldn't think that is the case for a couple as close as us.

Nicole: Or even like, you know, it's just the reality of it. You don't have to agree with every single thing to still complement each other. And sometimes it's not even a different opinion; it's different viewpoints, which I think is valuable. You always have the female viewpoint; I have the male viewpoint. We might even have the same topic that we're just talking about something in a different way. Sometimes men and women use the same vocab, but it means different things.

John: Exactly. Or like different points added, or like, "Oh, I didn't even think about it that way." So, yeah, so that's why we wanted to record our at-home conversations because we will have like three-hour conversations still to this day about certain topics, and we feel like it's beneficial to see both sides of those things. So, here we are.

Nicole: Exactly. All right, well, let's jump right into the topic. I'll let you give your idea or your stance on this first.

John: I mean, what do you think about marriage? I mean, it's a little biased, I guess, since now you know we just got married. But what are your thoughts on it?

Nicole: I guess I could start it off by saying that a lot of people today, especially a lot of men, say there's really no value in marriage today because why get married? What benefit is it to me as a man?

John: Yeah, okay.

Nicole: I have a lot of things. I take marriage very seriously, but I don't come from a religious background in that sense. I just always viewed it as, you know, I'm going to think really hard about this decision because I only really want to do it once. Not that that's not to say that if I had made a mistake, I wouldn't get married again when I was younger. But, you know, I really wanted to do it once. So, I think that's also what kept me single even when I was younger because I'm like, you know, is this person the one? No, I don't know. And I would even ask people, I'd be like, "You know, how do you know?" And then they'd be like, "You just know." And I'm like, "That doesn't feel like it really helps." But it is true, in fact.

John: So, I think it's a very serious thing.

Nicole: I think that it takes a lot of information from dating and from who you are, who you want to be, how you guys coexist together, and a whole bunch of different dynamics. You have to talk about parenting before you even parent. You have to talk about finances. You have to talk about those things at a certain point to make sure that you can go through all that stuff because it's a really big deal, obviously. So, the question is then, why? Why do it? Is it worth doing today?

John: Well, I think since it is a serious thing in my mind, I think that it's the ultimate level of devotion to somebody. It's the ultimate level of commitment. And if you do care about this person to spend the rest of your life with, why are you so afraid to make it legal? Which I understand that men are afraid.

John: Of their money, which I get, you know. Some women are afraid of their money too. It goes both ways, but it comes down to, if you're afraid to lose your money to get a divorce, should you even get married? It goes back to those questions you need to ask, right? Like, if you're that afraid that this person might spend all your money or cheat on you or whatever ends up causing a divorce, and then take half of your money, I think that's the fear that most men have. And then take your kids, and you not see your kids again. Say, if you are getting to that point though, did you not vet this person well enough? And to be honest, I think that women probably vet a little harder than men might.

Nicole: Yeah, I think that's true. I think biologically that's true. I mean, from an evolutionary biology perspective, women have to carry a baby for nine months, so their investment of picking the wrong man is much higher. If a guy picks the wrong girl, it doesn't matter; he spread his seed where he liked. But yeah, so I'm saying, like, girls typically do it a bit more, but it's not like guys shouldn't be doing it too because it would also erase this fear to some degree of, like, what if she divorces me and takes all my money? If you vetted the person right. But then, a lot of people change, right? They seem to be one, especially what a common complaint that guys say in marriage, and I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate because I mean, I do, you're a guy, right? Well, the complaint is that a woman will change once she has commitment.

John: I think there's some validity to that claim by a lot of guys. In a lot of cases, that does end up becoming the case. Now, I have some reasons why I think that ends up becoming the case, which is not just because a woman just changes, but a lot of guys are correct in saying that once a woman has commitment, and especially they say when she becomes married, that things change; she changes.

Nicole: Well, I'm interested. How does a woman change, like typically? I know one way, but I feel like that could be a whole other episode here. But like, does, are you saying like the guy feels like he doesn't change and just she changes, or like what?

John: Yeah, I mean, I would say that, again, not from firsthand experience but from the stories I've heard from a lot of guys complaining about this topic, is that they would say that she changes from where she is very sweet and kind to the guy and respects him, to taking him for granted. I wouldn't even say taking him for granted; that's more of female language. That's what a woman would say, but more of now disrespecting him, nagging him, treating him like he's an annoyance, and not having sex with him, right? Not having a lower desire for. Those are probably the chief complaints, I would say.

Nicole: Okay. I mean, here's how I look at it. That could be happening, potentially. I think that most people, when they're dating and even before they're married, they're almost on their best behavior, right? And so, it is kind of normal for a dynamic to change when a couple gets comfortable with each other, but it still shouldn't be like nagging or anything like that. But I think that also, too, when people get married, they're like, oh well, now I don't have to dress up, or I don't have to take her on dates anymore. And so, it's like you're taking away those things that were there when you were even when you were seriously dating and up until you got married, and those things kind of go out the window because, I mean, I'm sure other people have watched other videos on the internet of couples saying that the key is to still date each other type of thing because that's what keeps the feelings the same because you're still going out and doing fun things and you appreciate each other and things like that. And so, you know, it's but there's a lot to what you just said because she also could be resenting him for some things, and they're not communicating. That builds up over time, right? Because a lot of guys don't know how to handle a woman's emotions. They try to logic it. She feels like her emotions aren't validated. That stacks the get of nagging, and I think that is true. But then, that stills the question, why? What, why go through all that, like, why deal with that, you know, from a man's perspective, is becoming one, right? Like, and I'm not saying you have to have that in order to be one. You don't have to get married to be one. Because to be honest, when we got married, uh, yeah, it felt the same. I also feel like sometimes, and it's more so the women's perspective, I would say, is that women sometimes just want a wedding. Like, they just want to find somebody to get married, and then it's all sunshine and rainbows until she gets to where she wanted to go, and then now there's no more shiny things unless she has a baby, you know? Like, that's like a height of a woman's life a lot of the time. So, like, I understand where men probably wouldn't see being married as a big deal. It is more like a woman's thing, but I still think that something about becoming one in all the ways that you can become one, that's like, because when you legally get married, you're also taking on things from your partner, you know, like financially and things like that. And so, it's like someone is trusting you to this level to literally become one in all the ways.

John: Right, right. And it does make things easier, like healthwise. Like if something happens, they go straight to you. They're not going to be like, you know, when I was single, be like, who, it's call her parents. I mean, that's a pretty weak argument for like, I mean, you know, it's less planning. It is true. But I mean, I would say, though, that okay, so, I mean, to not play the devil's advocate now, is well, I mean, it's very difficult to have a family without a marriage, right? Like, it would be a little confusing for your kids. Well, and just the binding factor of, you know, of the commitment. And I think that's primarily the thing, that it's very difficult to build something with someone unless there is some kind of a strong foundation. Like, if you know that if they change their mind or something, they're going to disappear, and then everything you've built crumbles, you're not going to invest very much. So, having a very strong investment where you have something that even if you didn't feel like being with this person, you're married to them, so you've got to kind of stick it out at least to figure out, you know, it's a tighter thing than just being a couple, you know what I mean? Or just living with each other. It makes the stakes higher, and especially, I think the stakes become really high where, because again, I got asked this question a lot about.

John: Why get a wedding? Why spend all this money on a wedding? You're a smart guy. Why would you waste money on a wedding? The answer, I think, is because you are making the stakes even higher. You're setting yourself up to make it so that, if you're doing things right, you've made this choice, this commitment in your sane, rational mind, and now you want to put some safety bumpers on there just in case you go crazy and you're like, "Ah, I don't want to do this anymore." You've got some bumpers to kind of keep you in there, but it is because if you invest $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 into a wedding, you do this in front of all of your friends and family, right? And especially if you write your own personal vows and it's on video, then if you back out on that, it's a lot more skin in the game there. And so that might be seen as a negative to a lot of guys, but it's also positive because it means that that level of commitment, you can build something with a bigger investment because you know that for either person to get out of it, it's going to be a lot.

Nicole: But you see, it's funny you even phrased it that way, like financially. It's still really a financial thing with men. Let's be real, it is. That's what scares them the most about doing it. And even you just said, that is how they show they're even more invested, is financially. And like, I can't speak for all women, but obviously, most women want love and happiness and the family and whatever that their future looks like, you know? And so for us, it's more so like, you look at your partner and you're like, "Can I deal with his contacts everywhere on the floor for the rest of my life? Would I want my kids to grow up and be like him?" And all these things, which by the way, ladies, is very important to ask yourself when you're looking at your partner before you get married. But I like to think that we go through all these things, you know? We want to make sure that we're making the right decision, and then we're going towards that goal of love, because every girl wants a fairy tale, whatever fairy tale it is, but they want to be happy and be in love, right?

John: Okay, so, I mean, again, I agree with what you're saying. It makes sense from a woman's perspective. And to play The Devil's Advocate again, from a guy's perspective, you're not risking very much; he's risking a lot, usually, right? So because, you know, court systems as they are, family courts, it's usually not in a guy's favor. There's some bias there, which, reasonably so, because it is more likely that a woman is going to take better care of a child, you know. And I'm going to get crucified for saying that one, but it is. We know this is true. People can fight it and say no, no. And I'm not saying that it's always the case, but in general, we would say there's a lot more deadbeat dads than there are deadbeat moms, right?

Nicole: But see, even what you just described, uh-huh, it all sounds to me like men don't take the time to pick the right woman. Because like, if you're really afraid, one, going back a little bit, I don't think people change that much. The core of who someone is does not change. Age, but other things do. And so if you have a woman that you thought was a perfect angel and then you get married and she's not, she's the complete opposite, that was always there, right? But you didn't really get deep enough to figure that out. And so, I'm not even saying you have to be with somebody a super long time before you get married, but you have to get deep to their core, who they are, see all the good days, all the bad days, all the whatever days, and be like, "Yes, I can do this for the rest of my life." And I've been with him so much, and I've seen him in different situations that I know who he is. And so then if you change, it's like, well, he just lost his mind or something. Something's off, yeah, 'cause that core isn't going to change.

John: And I mean, I think I would take it one step further even to say that for a man, right, if he's doing things right, not to say that he shouldn't pick carefully as well, but a lot of, and well, I'm sure we'll talk about this in later episodes because there's a lot to say on this, but I believe that a lot of the way a woman acts in a relationship is a direct reflection of the man that she's with. Right, because men are leaders, women are followers. They want to be led. They want a man that is going to, even if they don't know it, even if they don't know it exactly, but the instinct is there. And so a man's behavior really shapes, you know, I always think of it as a woman's like a garden, that the man is the gardener and depending on what seeds he plants and how he waters those seeds, that's the crop that he gets. And a lot of guys get the nagging crop, the nag weed. But now that you said that, going back to what you said about, "Oh, like my wife, she nags at me and tells me, you know, do this, do that," yeah, I really think though if he sprinkled a little more water on his garden, yeah, then it would grow some flowers. Like even in that situation, I don't think, like for it to be very, very bad, like it has to go on for a long time with no attempts, you know? And so, and even walking away sometimes is like what you end up having to do. So I'm not saying that some people who don't have these issues maybe they should separate. I'm not not saying that, but I think it is important to take the time in the beginning and even when you're dating, date with intention and try to really get to know who someone is deep down. And then that way, you'll have confidence and not feeling afraid that this person is going to totally change on me, right? Because you already know who they are. You've seen them in any instance, so it's like nothing is going to surprise you, right? And you should always go into something of that level of commitment with the idea that if this person never changes at all, I'm okay with that. Like whatever their behaviors are now, if you're like, "Oh well, I hope they improve and they get better at this," then it's not good.

John: I guess the question that I would ask you is, you still don't think marriage is... I mean, I obviously think so, otherwise, I wouldn't have done it, especially after being divorced once. True, like losing half of my stuff.

Nicole: Then I should ask you, sir. Well, hold on. Well, you... I already answered. I mean, well, the question really is though, is, you know, what is in it for the dude, right? Like, there's a lot in it for the... This sounds like, what do you bring to the table?

John: Well, I mean, it's a variation of the question. It's like, but if a guy's like, seriously, why should I get married though? Like, what benefit is it to me, right?

Nicole: I mean, I can only answer from my perspective, and I would be like, why are you so opposed to it? Which was like, so why isn't the answers I've given you enough?

John: Because what it still doesn't sound like a real good benefit for a guy, based on that.

Nicole: Well, you didn't tell me for a guy, you just said what's the benefit of getting married.

John: Well, I mean, the debate. I think most women still want to get... I guess less women want to get married today, but still, most women want to get married, and I would say today, most guys do not want to get married. There's probably a huge percentage of guys, I don't know what the exact number is, they're like, oh, there's no point. Why would I get married? I'm never going to get married.

Nicole: So, how... What is the benefit for them to get married? I'm putting you right on the spot.

John: I mean, I know what... I'll give you my honest opinion, okay? Yeah. So, I don't think men realize what, like, a good woman, a good... No, good woman, just... A good woman brings to his life until he's had one, and...

Nicole: Well, wait a minute. Okay, I agree with that, but he can just get the good woman. He doesn't have to marry her.

John: Yeah, well, because women don't have the standards. Women... Yeah, women should not, like, settle for that, and especially if that's what she really wants. You should not be like just allowing a man to keep you as a girlfriend for the rest of your days. It's also kind of like, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Nicole: Exactly, but that's why you don't also give it up too early, too. Like, just to, you know, again, got episode, but um, but yeah. But I mean, I mean, just to go on that, a woman should have a higher standard to be like, like, I'm not going to fool, like, one year if we're not going somewhere, goodbye. Like, we're engaged, or that's it. I think that's reasonable to me. I know a lot of guys are not going to like that, but if in one year you cannot figure out if this person is the one for you, then they're not.

John: I mean, I agree. I would agree with that, right? 'Cause that's enough time to know, right? 'Cause it should be so, it should be so in order for you to take this huge step in your life where you're potentially involving two sets of families, potentially children, and all this stuff. You should be so sure about it that it doesn't even take you a year to figure it out, that you're like, this is... Like, otherwise, just don't do it. I would like to personally ask some guys that have waited super long, like, what is going on? I mean, even your sister's boyfriend at our wedding was like, I've dated a girl for seven years and then we got married, and it didn't work out. And then I dated one for like one year and got married, and that didn't work out either, but I liked her better, and I was... It's like, okay, but it's like, you know, so I'm curious about that, too, why guys wait because they don't see any advantage of getting married.

Nicole: Right, that's it. It brings it right back to the question, like, what is really in it for... Because they only look at the negatives, but what's the positive for the man? Like, what is... You know, here's the positive. Yeah, like, like we just talked about, any respectable woman is not going to stay your woman for as long as you want, and sure, you can go out and find a new woman every night if you want to, but at the core of who we are as human beings, we like to have relationships, right? And so, it's that, like, depth, mhm, of what a marriage is. I know it's not really like... I can't tell you anything beneficial, like financially, because I mean, like, unless you got a sugar mama, then congrats for you, 'cause like, go ahead, like, you know, do you. But, you know, what men focus on is like the financial and the legal part, and they're not looking at like, you are showing the person you're with this, like, ultimate commitment and love. Like, you're choosing to, like you said, take the risks of maybe losing some of your stuff in the future, but I can guarantee you that if a woman's marrying you, most of the time, she wants to be with you. She wants to have kids with you. She wants to get old with you and sit on rocking chairs in the front porch with you. So, the benefit for him, in this case, is that he gets her appreciation, that she recognizes that level of commitment, you know what I mean?

John: Like, I suppose. Look, I can't tell you the guy side because I do feel... I agree with you. I feel like guys just look at the financial, the risks, and all that stuff, and of course, like, if you're in this situation that doesn't have any hugely added benefits, unless you're in the military and you get married, then men get benefits. But like, it's about the greater whole of it, and I think there is a part of, like, legally, you know, a woman taking your name and carrying on your legacy, and like, your family is a huge deal.

Nicole: Okay, like, yeah. I... Okay, it's like, you know, like a king having either a queen or like just some peasant girls that come in, you know, here and there. Like, what makes a king look better?

John: I mean, you're not wrong, but who gets to sit up there with the King?

Nicole: Yeah, that... Okay, okay. Here, I'll present an argument 'cause I made this choice, right, to get married as a man who didn't really need to make the choice. I mean, you didn't even say, hey, you need to get married. You're like, I wanted to.

John: I know you wanted it, but you're like, I mean, because I had just gone through a divorce, so you're like, look, I understand if you never want to get married again. We'll just stay together, right? Still, that's what you said, eventually.

Nicole: I mean, hoping that, you know, we had this relationship that I was like, if I really want to get married, which he knows that I do, then, you know, we'll get there eventually. But yeah, I didn't want to like rush you.

John: Yeah, there was no pressure at all. Like, it was like, I felt like I had all the time in the world, which I feel like we need a side note right now and maybe mention what we were talking about, like pressuring, getting pressured.

Nicole: Yeah, that's marriage. That's a no-no. That's... It doesn't... I feel like it doesn't usually end well, like if it's like an ultim...

John: Atum or like some sort of pressure thing, which I'm not saying that once you get to a year, you shouldn't reflect and be like, "Do I want to be with this person? Do I not?" You need to leave. It shouldn't be used as an ultimatum to be like, "Look, I'm really interested in going somewhere, right? And with someone, and taking a higher level of commitment, and it doesn't seem like you're there, and that's okay." It still has to be done. Then it doesn't sound like an ultimatum when it's like, "If we're not married by the end of this year, I'm leaving." Then that's an ultimatum. That's twisting.

Nicole: Someone's giving you an ultimatum, and it usually is women. It's not good. You should, a year or less, do not. You should just break up. A woman should... It's kind of funny because I think we're giving some contradictory advice, but like, I think we would agree that a woman should maybe wait around for a year, and if nothing's happening in the year, then she should consider leaving the relationship. Not threatening to leave, but just leaving because, hey, it's not going somewhere. Like, "Hey, I gave you a year to see if you were husband material, and I don't think it's going to work out." Like, it still has to be like... I don't... I think it's just, and maybe a year is short. I mean, I'm being a little... maybe it's two years. I don't know. It's somewhere you could judge, but it has to be some reasonable timeframe. Like, women aren't getting any younger, okay? So, feel the only... their time is precious. The ultimatum is like, I see a woman saying it, and it not be a red flag, is when it's been like 7 years. You had kids or something, and you're like, "Where the heck is my ring?" Like, I can see that because you've already basically established the thing. But do you see where, like, yeah, you can not get married, but that also is doing something to your wife, or like, well, not your wife obviously, but you know, your girlfriend, like making her feel like, "Is something wrong with our relationship? What am I doing?" And she might break up with you, and you realize you did want to marry her, but you were just, I don't know, waiting around for 7 years. I don't know. But it's, or you didn't see the advantage. That's the thing. It's like, but now, but now you lost somebody potentially. And like, some people have kids, and they're not even married, and they've been together that long, and now, what's going to happen with your kids? And also, your kids are watching you treat their mother this way. You know, most of the time, making her not making an honest woman. Well, and most of the time, the moms are like, obviously upset that their boyfriend hasn't proposed, and so then the kids are seeing that, and then they're like, "I don't know what's going on, but like, I guess you can just be upset that your dad doesn't..." I don't know. It's just like, it's more messy than if you just figure out if you want to be with this person or not, and then make the commitment.

John: Okay, so let me give you the, like, my, like, why did I get married then? Okay. This might cause a divorce. No, I'm just kidding. No. So, okay. So, yeah. So, I was in a position where I didn't really need to get married. Like I said, you weren't pressuring me. You know, from there was no reason. I just gone through a divorce. There was no reason for me to get married. Nothing was forcing me. There wasn't any kind of ultimatum or anything. So, why would I voluntarily do this? Right? That's what a lot of people ask me. Right? So, but the answer is, it's a couple of things. Right? So, one, I'll draw an analogy. Right? Because I think that the advantage that, like, if a man says, "What is in it for me in marriage?" And I think the answer is the intimacy because getting a real depth of a relationship is something that you cannot replace, and you cannot find with... You can get that without the marriage. You can't get it as deep. And I'll tell you why. Okay. If I was a tightrope walker, if we were walking on a tightrope, right? Okay. And I needed to walk across this tightrope, all right? And, you know, there's no net underneath. Okay. I'm going to be really careful in walking across that tightrope. Right? If you're like, "Hey, you should try and do a spin on there." I'll be like, "No, I'm just going to try and do this safely." Right? If there's a net, right, then I'll do all kinds of tricks. I don't care. It doesn't matter. I'm going to have fun with it. Right? I'm going to go deeper with it. Right? Like, I'll... There's less risk involved in it. Right? And so, marriage is kind of like a safety net. Right? It allows you to go deep. And what I mean by deep is that to make a deep emotional investment in the person because if I make a deep emotional investment in you, and we're not married, and you could just change your mind tomorrow and just... Right? You know, and that's it. Right? You know, not to say that in a marriage, that someone doesn't do that, but it's again, it's a much heavier decision. Right? You can bank on it. I mean, especially you're going to change your name and do all this stuff. There's a lot of steps, and you got to tell your parents now, and you know, all the money they spent on the wedding, you're like, "Ah, you know, you better at least last 2 years." Right? So, but you see what I'm saying? It's like, it's a safety net because now you can emotionally invest deeper in that person, knowing that they're not going anywhere. And I think a lot of people have shallow relationships, and especially shallow relationships today because there isn't a level of commitment to it. And even though, you know, a lot of guys are afraid of commitment, and it is a risk that a man does have to take, that safety net of knowing that the person's going to be there allows both parties to invest deeper because they know that, you know, because when you open up emotionally more, and you become more intimate, you become more vulnerable, and you can be hurt more. Right? And so, people just won't do that unless they have a very high level of trust. And what better trust than a bond between in front of your friends and family? But how does marriage give you that? Because I mean, I feel like you could have that with a long-term relationship.

John: Well, because like I said, the big investment, making so... It's really what you're saying is, it's like legally forcing you to have to work things out rather than just being like, "We're breaking up."

Nicole: Right, exactly. So, it's kind of like legally making guys have to not run away.

John: Or women not run. I mean, I know, but you said from a guy's perspective, and both parties do run away sometimes because marriage is treated a lot lighter than today, right? People don't really take it as serious of a commitment. We're not being shunned for being divorced these days, but it still should be taken seriously. I'm just saying that, like, you know, back then, people couldn't even get out of abusive situations. But at least now, it's like, you know, people who are leaving abuse and stuff, they don't get shunned from the rest of the town. But I get what you mean; it's like people are just not taking it as seriously, though. So that's one reason I wanted to have that depth, right? I feel like, and but also what was important to me was that I love you, and I care about you, and I know that it's something that is really important to you, and it makes you feel special as a woman because a guy is willing to take the risk, right? Especially a guy that's already taken the risk and has lost that bet. It's a true show of my, you know, if you actually care about a person, right? As a man, you care about a woman, and you love her, then why would you not want to give her the best possible life, right?

Nicole: I mean, I agree. Because, you know, if you're asking a question, well, what's in it for me? You're actually asking the wrong question, right? Because that's not what if you have to ask that question, then you shouldn't get married. Then you already have the answer to it. But if you don't have to ask that question because you're like, all I care about is making this person have the best possible life that I can provide for them, right? Then there's your answer. So that's it for me. I mean, I feel like it still kind of goes back to just making sure you know the person that you're even with. Because I feel like even as a guy, I know I'm not a guy, but if I'm focusing on the risks and stressing about that, I would be like, why am I focusing on that rather than like, I love this person, like you just said, and I want to show them my commitment to them and things like that. So a guy who even asks that would make me be like, maybe he needs to think about the person that he's with. Because, you know, you said before I came along that you weren't going to get married again.

John: Yeah, no, I was not. I was really in my head. Again, this is why I think this topic is good, is because I was like, there's no way. Like, why would I do it? Like, there's no benefit to me. Like, what? And you know, and arguably, I could still say there's quote no benefit to me because again, that's not, well, it's not the benefit to me is that you get to see how much that I love you. Right? That's the benefit to me. That's what I want, right? Is to, like I said, asking the question of what is the benefit for me is the wrong question. Right? That's not how I looked at this. I didn't say, what is the benefit to me? Because if I looked at it that way, I would be looking at it through the wrong lens. Well, I mean, because again, guys look at it more of like a financial thing, so you're not getting anything like that. But women look at it as more of like a love thing. And that's the difference. Guys don't really look at it as much as a love thing, like you did. 'Cuz that's why you agreed to do it, 'cuz you, I love this, and this will make her happy. But most guys aren't like that.

Nicole: Even like you just answered, most guys are like, I'm not really benefiting from this.

John: Well, I wouldn't want you to miss out on the moment of having being engaged, right? Of getting engaged, of having that experience, or having the experience of walking down the aisle in your wedding dress. Like, those are things that are culturally ingrained into young women. But they're there, and they're real, and they are the things that a lot of women fantasize about or hope that someday they'll have that. And who am I to rob you of that experience if I truly love you? Then why would I rob you of that experience? Yeah, maybe there's a financial risk to me, sure, but it's, but I'm sure of you. You have to be sure of your decision.

Nicole: Right. Yeah, I was just going to say, it just seems the same goes back to like, who are you marrying? I guess we should probably wrap it an hour.

John: Yeah, we got to do, but we have to do our last segment, right? Which is, we're going to now do, uh, we're going to end every episode with a personal story from our own life, a relationship story, like what's happened to us this week. So, and I already spoiled it, but we got married this week.

Nicole: Well, we had our ceremony on Sunday, and it was really nice. And Rodrigo was there, was videoing. Um, but yeah, it was everything I've ever imagined. But I couldn't imagine it really in my brain 'cuz not until you came along.

John: Yeah, but yeah, so, and how, I mean, how did you feel about it?

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, it was wonderful. Um, I mean, you looked amazing, beautiful. Um, I had a lot of fun, actually. I didn't expect to have a lot of fun, but it was fun.

John: It went so fast.

Nicole: Yeah, it went so fast. Like, that's a very true thing. But yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was like more intimate, not, you know, like a crazy rowdy thing, but that was perfect. I felt very me and you-y.

John: I agree. All right, well, that's it. Next week, we'll have some dirt, maybe some dirt, you know, just like what relationship issue did we tackle?

Nicole: That's true. Like, I'm sure we'll have something.

John: Yeah, we'll have something like that. But that's it. All right, we'll see you next time. Through every fault, we find our way.