John [00:00:00]: Many times, a woman is not going to necessarily see a problem with hanging out with guys, with going out to the nightclub to dance with her friends. And the guy is going to have to be the one that's in the position to say, this is not something that we should be doing in our relationship. It's not controlling and insecure. To set a boundary and to say what you do not like or what you do like and what you want, and then to choose whether you're going to be with someone or not. Many women will still call it controlling, but then the guy.

Nicole [00:00:23]: They're not the woman for you.

John [00:00:24]: Well, the guy has to be secure enough to not allow that to affect.

Nicole [00:00:28]: Him and to understand a boundary versus being actual controlling.

John [00:00:32]: On the perfect, we discover through our flaws, we complete each other. Better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. I'm unstoppable now. I'm on fire.

Nicole [00:01:04]: I'm like, will he ever forget to grow again? Probably not, because I've got it down pretty good.

John [00:01:08]: Got it down now. It's like. It's just. It's part of me now. It's ingrained.

Nicole [00:01:13]: Well, yeah, brag about it. Yeah.

John [00:01:17]: Next week it'll be like, welcome to the Better.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Yeah, it'll be, like, totally messed up, but. Yeah. So if we look very similar to the last episodes, because we're doing two episodes, because we will be traveling.

John [00:01:33]: Yeah. To the Maldives. The Maldives. The Maldives. I don't know what it is. I'll just give both pronunciations because dives. I think it's Maldives.

Nicole [00:01:44]: Yeah, I think.

John [00:01:45]: Yeah, it is. Unless you're Australian and then it's the Maldives.

Nicole [00:01:49]: Is that how they say it?

John [00:01:50]: I mean, I. I think there's something.

Nicole [00:01:52]: I think American people also mispronounce it.

John [00:01:54]: Like that, but I think, like, Australia.

Nicole [00:01:56]: Are we mispronouncing it?

John [00:01:57]: I'm trying to think, like, what is it?

Nicole [00:01:59]: You're trying to do an Australian accent.

John [00:02:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:03]: Nar.

John [00:02:05]: I've got a. No, I've got a. I've got to learn an English accent so that I can be in a movie.

Nicole [00:02:10]: So cottage, Chase and Skittles. Yeah, that's all you need to know.

John [00:02:14]: But that's like the cockney.

Nicole [00:02:16]: Oh, you're not supposed to have that.

John [00:02:17]: I think.

Nicole [00:02:20]: Water.

John [00:02:20]: Water.

Nicole [00:02:21]: Then you have to pronounce your T's.

John [00:02:23]: Yeah, but I can do a Scottish accent. Right. I Haven't got anything for you, so just go away.

Nicole [00:02:30]: But can you do anything else?

John [00:02:31]: Yeah, like this. It was in a video game, so I. I learned how to say, I haven't got anything for you, so just go away.

Nicole [00:02:37]: Your throat is working hard. You even, like. You, like, position yourself. You're like. I. I can't even. I can't even. But it's, like, all in your throat. I can tell because you can, like, see it when you do it.

John [00:02:52]: But I mean, if I. I think if I worked on a Scotch accent, since I have some of it, I could. I could do it. I could just have to work on it.

Nicole [00:03:00]: I think so.

John [00:03:00]: But.

Nicole [00:03:01]: But, yeah, we're gonna hopefully make a video or so while we're traveling.

John [00:03:07]: Record a.

Nicole [00:03:09]: But.

John [00:03:09]: An episode. Yeah, our home. Home brewed episodes of weird camera angles from our cell phone.

Nicole [00:03:17]: You know, not a professional video than we did last time, but it wasn't bad.

John [00:03:22]: No, it worked out. So. All right, so should we jump into the topic, or do you want to talk about my chicken filet sandwich? A chicken filet sandwich?

Nicole [00:03:32]: Called it chicken filet because that's what I call it. But it's Chick Fil A. Chick Fil.

John [00:03:37]: You know, chick seems like such a derogatory term to use, you know, so chicken is the proper term. Not chick. All right, don't call her a chick. Call her a chicken.

Nicole [00:03:47]: Yeah, that's the way to her heart. No. Unless you want to still talk about the chicken sandwich.

John [00:03:52]: I mean, it's just. They gave me a chicken sandwich with no chicken on it. I mean, that's so. But whatever I've gotten.

Nicole [00:03:59]: He also ordered guacamole from Chick Fil A. And I was like, I don't think anyone has ever ordered guacamole from Chick Fil A.

John [00:04:05]: But they gave me the guac. Okay, if you check a box that says. See? Now you got me start. Look, if you check a box.

Nicole [00:04:13]: You want to talk about it? You want to.

John [00:04:16]: If you check a box on a sandwich and it's like, add guacamole on it. Okay, now, look, if I said hot sauce and they gave me a packet of hot sauce, I would be disappointed. Yeah, I was gonna say, but it wouldn't be unexpected. Okay, but if you check a box that says guacamole in a sandwich, and they give you a package of guacamole, and they didn't put it on the sandwich for you, and you gotta open the thing and to smear it, getting it all over your hands, try and put it on the sandwich.

Nicole [00:04:44]: Maybe they didn't know how much guacamole you wanted.

John [00:04:46]: While I'm on the subject. Also the coffee at Chick Fil A, the most ridiculous damn thing in the world. Why did they even serve coffee? Because they, if you.

Nicole [00:04:55]: That is not Chick Fil A coffee, by the way.

John [00:04:56]: No, it's not. But if I, if I say I want Splenda and cream in my coffee, they hand you a package of Splenda and cream to put in your own coffee in the drive through, you're driving a car. If I wanted to put my own splendid coffee and creamer in my coffee, I would have just made it at home. I wouldn't have gone all the way through the drive through in order for someone to give it to me so that while I'm trying to drive, I try to put it into my coffee and mix it up.

Nicole [00:05:25]: And that's the end of First World Problem segment. John's Chickfila Grievance.

John [00:05:35]: They're so friendly, you know what I mean?

Nicole [00:05:37]: Does that make you even more.

John [00:05:38]: Everyone's like a good little Christian boy and girl there, you know, just. And then it, and then they're, and then they just, just screw it up so bad. It's like, like, like I want to hate them, but I can't because I love them. You know what I'm saying? It's like they're so lovable, but I want to hate them.

Nicole [00:05:55]: Don't hate.

John [00:05:55]: I mean, like I can. I didn't even call up Chick Fil A and complain about my chicken sandwich because I'm like, there's just going to be some nice person and they're going to be like, how are you doing today, sir? Oh, I'm so, I just like, I, I want, I.

Nicole [00:06:08]: You want somebody to be mad at you want to fight with somebody.

John [00:06:11]: I want to fight them.

Nicole [00:06:12]: You need to work on your unconditional love for everyone.

John [00:06:15]: That's the problem.

Nicole [00:06:17]: My 4 year old is back there and forgot to put the chicken in.

John [00:06:20]: That's the problem. I can't because I, I, you know, they're just too lovable. They're so cute at Chick Fil a, you know.

Nicole [00:06:25]: Well, you need to do that with everybody. Well, and maybe your ha, your hanger, I mean, also maybe hanger. Your anger will dissipate.

John [00:06:34]: I don't have anger. Right. I don't have.

Nicole [00:06:38]: Rewind the clip.

John [00:06:39]: When have you seen me get angry? Like really legitimately?

Nicole [00:06:42]: Well, that, what you just, that's just sarcasm. That's the extent you're right. You don't get angry.

John [00:06:48]: That's the show.

Nicole [00:06:49]: But, oh, is wasn't for show last night at the dinner table.

John [00:06:54]: That was. I'm an actor all the time. That was my theatrics. Okay, all right, all right. Well, let's get into the topic.

Nicole [00:07:02]: You got it all out now. Do you feel better?

John [00:07:04]: No. I mean, but tomorrow.

Nicole [00:07:05]: No tomorrow. Two business days. Well, I guess it's.

John [00:07:09]: I mean, the next time we go to Chick Fil? A, I think it might trigger me again, though. But, you know, we'll see.

Nicole [00:07:14]: I don't want to never go to Chick Fil? A again.

John [00:07:16]: I'm all right, fine. It's gone.

Nicole [00:07:17]: I'm like, please put his creamer.

John [00:07:20]: I'll put it into a closet where, you know, just lock all the stuff I don't ever want to deal with ever again in there. And that's Chick Fil A sandwich a good idea.

Nicole [00:07:28]: It's not a good idea. You'll be, like, all upset. And I'm like, where did this come from? You're like, chick fil?

John [00:07:34]: A 20 years ago.

Nicole [00:07:37]: Like, remember that time they didn't put chicken on my chicken sandwich? I never emotionally recovered from that.

John [00:07:43]: But that's why you got to error out. You know, get it. Get it out.

Nicole [00:07:46]: Yeah, but you don't feel better. So that's why I'm concerned.

John [00:07:49]: I didn't. I didn't feel bad to start with. I ate my sandwich. You know, it's like, with no chicken on it.

Nicole [00:07:54]: But you had an extra one.

John [00:07:56]: I look, luckily I ordered a naked chicken that had. But, you know, the thing is about that is I was going to be bad. And I was like, normally I get the grilled chicken, and this time I was like, I'm going to get this spicy fried chicken and fried. And they were like, they're like, no, you don't. They gave me the grilled chicken wrapped in lettuce, which I had to put into where the spicy fried chicken should have been.

Nicole [00:08:19]: They saw you pull up, and they were like, he has muscles. He doesn't want this fried chicken. Then they just threw it out of the chicken sandwich. They're like, we can't give him fried chicken. Maybe mess up his game.

John [00:08:30]: Maybe it was someone from my YouTube. Maybe they're like, like, that's bulldog mindset. What is he doing? No.

Nicole [00:08:36]: Yes. I actually helped you.

John [00:08:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:40]: See, it's all about how you reframe the situation.

John [00:08:44]: Thank you. I appreciate it. Now, I. I'm glad they did that for.

Nicole [00:08:47]: To reframe it. So, see, we need to learn our own lessons. A lot of the time, you know, we're human.

John [00:08:54]: All right, it's my topic today. Like, we're going to. This is a Chick Fil A episode.

Nicole [00:09:00]: Yeah, it's your episode. Right now you're like, it's my topic. Like, you didn't just vent about Chick.

John [00:09:05]: Fil A for 10 minutes last time. We just. The beginning segment became the whole thing. Well, you know, we don't want to call this one the Chick Fil A episode.

Nicole [00:09:15]: You know, like I don't have any.

John [00:09:17]: What does this have to do with relationships? This is all about Chick Fil A Chicken Fl. Proper name. So. All right, okay, the, the topic is are you controlling or dominant? Right? And so, and the, like the sub topic is are you controlling and insecure or dominant? Insecure.

Nicole [00:09:42]: Okay.

Unknown_C [00:09:42]: Right.

John [00:09:43]: And so I don't think this is.

Nicole [00:09:44]: A question for me.

John [00:09:46]: No, it's not. It's not. It's for men, right. Basically. I mean, I guess I didn't even think about how it could apply to women, but great. Well, because we actually got it an email, which I guess I could read that. I mean, it's a little bit long, but well, before I read the email, essentially the, the, the idea is that I give a lot of advice. We give a lot of advice to guys in terms of, you know, don't accept that a woman is going to go out to a nightclub until 2am don't accept that she's going to talk to her ex boyfriend and be friends with them or hang around guys and, you know, and go on girls trips and all this stuff, right? And I'm seeing this from, from the context of, you know, I coach men and so this is what I deal with all the time. And so, and then a lot of guys are like, they're confused by that, right? Some of them agree, some of them try to implement it and they're like, she just told me to kick rocks. Right? And it's like, I thought that was supposed to be like I was supposed to do that. And other guys are like, oh, I would never say that to her because she's not going to agree to any of those things, right? Or, you know, and so it's like. But then there's other guys that implement the advice and they're like, oh, wow, you know, she was upset and then now she respects me even more because I set boundaries in the relationship, right? And so it's like you can say the same thing, but in one way that you say it and your mannerisms you can come across as controlling because it's coming from a place of insecurity. And in another way you can come across as dominant, I would say, and secure. Right. Because it's coming from a different place.

Unknown_C [00:11:24]: Right.

John [00:11:24]: And so that's what the topic is, is what's the difference? Why does it matter? Right. How does it come across? Does that make sense?

Nicole [00:11:34]: Yeah, I'm just like, I don't know what to say, but it makes sense.

John [00:11:38]: Well, you want me to read the email? Let me do that. So that.

Nicole [00:11:41]: Is that the one we already read or is this a new one?

John [00:11:42]: This is a new one.

Nicole [00:11:43]: We always, you're like, let me read the email that we read that John read.

John [00:11:49]: We're.

Nicole [00:11:50]: Me and the viewers are learning at the same time.

John [00:11:52]: No, no, we, we've. We. Me and you have read it.

Nicole [00:11:55]: Oh, I thought you said it was a new one.

John [00:11:57]: It's a, it's a new one for the, the viewers for the oh podcast. Actually it was, I think it was a Tick Tock message. Right. Or I mean it came in as an email on the better than perfect Wait.

Nicole [00:12:08]: But the tick tock I think has update.

John [00:12:10]: I got it. I got it. Okay. That's a different one. This one was. I almost said his name. That would have been, would have been good. We don't. This anonymous person, he said, hey, hope your Sunday is going well. I would like some guidance, please. Two and a half months ago, I broke up with my girlfriend from a two year relationship. I didn't feel loved at all during the relationship. Two days later after the breakup, a mutual friend on Facebook added me and we started to talk a lot and hit it off. We finally met at the gym to work out as friends and then unexpectedly fell for each other. Hard. We've been. We'd be together a majority of the time before she goes to work for the police department during the day or when she wakes up, she'd go to the gym before night shift. She introduced me to her family and friends and I noticed this one friend of hers would always be FaceTiming her. Every time I'd be around her or while she's on her way home from work, she'd be all lovey on me, kissing me, telling me we have to have a good day at work during the day, decorating the front of the house with planets for stuff for the holidays, making it her home. I don't know if he, he meant plants or actually planets. I mean it's pretty cool she's decorating with planets, but I don't know what holiday you decorate with planets, so.

Nicole [00:13:25]: Earth Day.

John [00:13:26]: Oh, that's true. Earth Day. Maybe she's decorating for Earth Day. I mean, this was in June, though, so. Oh, but it could have been. Yeah, it could have been around. Earth Day is like in April, isn't it? Or May. I don't know.

Nicole [00:13:37]: Let's not. Let's not go down that wormhole. It's giving Chick Fil A energy right now.

John [00:13:43]: All right, on May 27th, Tetris lover, are you happy? All right, on May 27th, we all were having fun at the pool and having food. She has past trauma from a relationship slash marriage. Her marriage was controlling and she wasn't allowed to drink. Make a long story short, her friend that's always FaceTiming her was @ the party, and I knew this guy was a dude, right? He handed her a twisted tea after she had like, five and tried to give her a sixth one. And out of concern, I said to her, hey, please be careful when she drinks. It's like she's dead weight and can't move unless I hold her and walk her to the bed. This guy friend would always give me weird vibes. Well, her and I are broken up and she hasn't been texting me much or calling me. Do you think it's worth trying to fix a relationship? I've tried every way I could to think of to fix it, but she's extremely short with me on the phone, and I've been giving her space. When she texts me, it's only to get her stuff at my house. She told me I've molded my life around her and controlling because I told her to be careful while drinking. That's a lot. But, yeah, but you get where. I mean, the episode comes from this. Because this is the confusion that a lot of men face, right, Is they're like, okay, I'm going to say something. And now. And women use this a lot of times to manipulate men. As they say, you're controlling or you're insecure. Right?

Nicole [00:15:11]: Yeah. I think her thing, though, is she probably was with somebody that was actually controlling, and now she's trying to go, like, the complete opposite, you know? Like anything might trigger her to think that it's controlling. Or she might be like, oh, he's gonna turn into how that guy was. So at least he knows that she has trauma, right. From a previous relationship. But I don't think the guy who wrote you the email did anything wrong by being like, hey, watch out, you know, for, like, what you're doing. But I get where now he's in a tough place of like, okay, how does he come off as having boundaries to this woman that has been with a controlling man and is probably going to be easily triggered? And is that even possible to have with her? Because that's probably something she needs to heal on her own that he might not even be able to do, depending on where she's at with healing that part of her. Because I can understand her trauma where she might be afraid that that's gonna happen to her again. But this guy doesn't seem like he gives off that sort of energy. We don't know the full, you know, story, but based on how he phrased what he did in the email, it doesn't seem like he's a controlling type of person. He was just trying to look out for her and, you know, not have her get into a situation where she doesn't really have control of herself.

Unknown_C [00:16:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:47]: So it's kind of difficult, which I. That is the same person. And I think on TikTok, he sent an email.

John [00:16:52]: Yeah, he said on TikTok too. Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:53]: So another, like, update, though, which is.

John [00:16:57]: Which is another hint to his personality because he sent it to us. Email. He sent it out on TikTok. I think he emailed like. So here's what I would say. I think he is controlling.

Nicole [00:17:08]: You think so?

John [00:17:08]: And I'll tell you why. Look, because I think it's way. The best way to be controlling. The worst thing about this, because it reeks from insecurity. Because controlling comes from insecurity is to emotionally manipulate people into doing what you want. Right? Whereas being dominant and secure comes from a place of telling people what you don't like or you don't want and setting clear boundaries. And part of it is this. Look, he describes what happened, right? Already before he even went to this party, this girl that he's seeing that he's dating, she's coming over to his house and decorating. So they're in a relationship, Right? It's not just casual dating at this point. He said they broke up, so they're obviously in a relationship. He doesn't have any problem. Or he. He has a problem with it, but he's not saying he has a problem with this guy friend that she's FaceTiming all the time and while he's around. So already at this point, Right. Look, if you're dating a girl and while she's with you, she's FaceTiming a guy friend of hers. That's extremely rude and disrespectful. Even just FaceTiming anyone while you're hanging out with, you know, like, that's not. That's rude. It's disrespectful.

Unknown_C [00:18:22]: Right?

John [00:18:23]: And so he didn't say anything about that. He didn't. He didn't say, hey, that's not cool, like. Or, I don't like that. You know? I mean, I told guys to say, I don't like that, but he didn't say anything. Right? And then, you know, and I'm sure other things have happened. Then he gets to the pool party. This dude is at the pool party, right? Okay, look, if I was hanging out with. I'm trying to think, like, let's say I was a single guy and one of my friends was there and had a girlfriend or whatever. Like. Or I guess it's a. Or I knew a girl there. You know what I mean? And I was kind of friends with her. I would not. If she was there with a. With a guy she was dating, I would stay away from the two of them. I'm not gonna go hang out and, like, and be a. A weirdo.

Nicole [00:19:09]: But here's the thing, too, though, that seems secretive, even though you're not coming off that way, right? If I was the guy, yeah. In the situation that's my girlfriend, and you're not, like, you're friends with her, but now you're not gonna talk to her in front of me, I'd be like, that's even weirder.

John [00:19:27]: I'm not gonna go hang around and give her alcohol and be like, that would be. I would expect to get my. My block knocked off. You know what I mean? Some guy's dating a girl and you're going up and just, like, hanging out with her and giving her alcohol, right? So he's allowing that to happen as well, which is completely disrespectful. And the fact that she allows it to happen is completely disrespectful, right? You're hanging. You're with your boyfriend or a guy you're dating, and you're taking drinks from this other dude that's supposedly your friend. Like, it's just not cool, right? So he's. He's allowed all these things to happen, right? And then he. He tells her because he's afraid to offend her. Please be careful. You know, I know it seems like a stretch to call that controlling, but.

Nicole [00:20:10]: It seems more like nice guy energy.

John [00:20:12]: It is. But nice guy energy is where controlling comes from, because I guarantee you, you move that relationship two or three years down the line. Right now, his insecurity is making it where he's trying to control all the aspects of her life to make sure that he doesn't get anything that he doesn't like, instead of actually being direct.

Nicole [00:20:32]: But even though he's not doing any actions to actually do the controlling part, it's the insecurity.

John [00:20:38]: Well, because it's like, it carries. When you say there's certain things that you say to someone, that is an indirect way of indicating that it's passive aggressive. Right. Because it's like, oh, and he's harboring.

Nicole [00:20:53]: Resentment for her from these things that he's not talking about.

John [00:20:57]: Exactly. And that puts that emotional load on the person. It's like, if I do this, they're going to be upset with me. That's controlling. When you think if I do this, they're going to be upset with me and that's why I shouldn't do it.

Nicole [00:21:07]: That's controlling because you're controlling yourself, but it's really to get the outcome that you want.

John [00:21:13]: Exactly. And so whereas if he changed his whole demeanor instead, when he first started dating this girl, if she's FaceTiming some guy friend and he's like, hey, who is that guy? And she's like, oh, it's just a friend of mine. It's like, well, do you think that you should be FaceTiming him while we're, like, together on a date? I don't really like that. I kind of find that rude. You know what I mean? If he said that, she might have gotten pissed at him at first, but she probably would had a lot more respect for him. Right. And then by the time he gets to the pool party, I mean, obviously some other things should have been put to a stop before then. If he says, and even just in that situation, if he's at the pool party and instead of saying, be careful, if he sees her having too much alcohol and he says, oh, what are you doing there? Like, that's like, I. I don't like, I don't really want to be around someone that's like getting totally wasted. That's not cool. You know, I mean, like, if he said, I don't like that. Like, I don't like that, that level of drinking.

Unknown_C [00:22:16]: Right.

John [00:22:16]: Again, that's not telling someone what to do. It's saying what you don't like.

Unknown_C [00:22:19]: Right.

John [00:22:19]: That comes from security. It comes from a dominant place as opposed to. Because. As opposed to an insecure place, then she probably would have probably still been upset, but she would have respected him and he would have had a chance. Like, maybe that would have ended that day. In fact, he should have left at that point. He was like, okay, you could do what you want to do, but if you're going to get sloppy drunk, I'm not going to be here. Boom, he's gone. Later on, she talks to him, and now she has a respect for him. Because this guy has boundaries. He has respect for himself. He's not going to allow himself to be disrespected. Right. So those. That. That same kind of thing comes across in a much more secure way, as opposed to the weak, nice guy way that ends up becoming insecure.

Nicole [00:23:03]: But would you say the other guy that she was with was controlling for telling her not to drink alcohol?

John [00:23:09]: We don't know what the situation. I mean, but if she told.

Nicole [00:23:13]: Okay, well, let's just take it at what he said.

Unknown_C [00:23:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:16]: Which, you know, I'm not saying that's the truth, but he. She was not allowed to drink alcohol.

John [00:23:22]: Yeah. That's controlling. If that's right. If I say, look, if I say, hey, I'm not going to get. I'm not going to date someone who drinks alcohol. That's just, you know, just like I'm not going to date someone who smokes cigarettes. Sorry, I'm just, you know, it's not going to. I'm not going to do it. Right. Like, you can do it if you want to, but I just want you to know, you know, or if you want to see me casually, that's fine. But I'm not going to get in a serious relationship with someone who. I'm not going to get in a serious relationship with someone who goes out to nightclubs. You know, it's just, I'm not going to get a serious relationship with someone who talks to their exes. No, sorry. It's just not my thing.

Nicole [00:23:54]: Yeah. And that's a lot easier to do in the beginning. He's now in a relationship. Ish thing. Right. And now it's harder to do because it's easier to, like you just said, establish those boundaries from the very beginning. And then you don't really have to have as many boundary conversations because you've kind of laid it all out there in the very beginning. And if they chose to stay, then they're going to do those things.

Unknown_C [00:24:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:20]: But, yeah, I see where you're coming from. It's. You definitely have to explain it, and you've done a good job explaining it because it would be hard for people to understand that by him not really doing anything. He's still being controlling, but it's more so he's controlling his actions to get what he wants from her. By people pleasing.

Unknown_C [00:24:41]: Right?

John [00:24:41]: Yeah. Because you have to think about where does this come from? And that's why it's the insecurity versus security. How does an insecure person behave in order to get people to do things that don't threaten them or do what they want? Versus how does a secure person behave in order to get people to do things or not. Or they don't need them to do the things. Instead they're thinking, I don't necessarily want to be with someone or be in this environment if someone's going to do this thing. Right.

Nicole [00:25:07]: And they're okay with letting that go because they're not trying to make the person into what they want.

Unknown_C [00:25:12]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:12]: They accept people because it's like the line. Right. So if you say like, I don't date people who smoke cigarettes, that's your line. You're not changing this person.

Unknown_C [00:25:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:23]: They want to change, then that's fine.

Unknown_C [00:25:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:25]: But you believe that that is one of your boundaries that you have.

Unknown_C [00:25:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:32]: And what type of partner you want to have and you're not trying to enforce that onto the person you're talking to.

Unknown_C [00:25:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:39]: If they're like, no, I'm going to still smoke, you're perfectly okay being you're entitled to that and moving on. Whereas if it was the opposite and someone was like, well, no, I'm gonna smoke, then they would be like, no, you have to stop because I just told you that I don't like it.

John [00:25:55]: Exactly, exactly.

Nicole [00:25:57]: They're, they're trying to influence the person.

Unknown_C [00:25:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:00]: Rather than accepting what it actually is.

John [00:26:03]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:26:04]: And the person can change their mind, but that person made it on their own.

John [00:26:08]: Exactly. Because they're like, I value this relationship or this person more than I value this other behavior thing.

Nicole [00:26:14]: Yeah. And so it's, it's sort of not a beneficial thing. Like, no, smoking is not beneficial to you. You know, drinking all the time is not beneficial to you. So it's different if they're like you. I don't even know what like the. Weirdly if they were like, you have to stop exercising or something. I don't want to date somebody that exercises. That would be really weird.

John [00:26:37]: But it's just, it's just rude in general. Just get shit faced in front of someone in general. Like it's like. And especially when you.

Nicole [00:26:43]: Well, because you're not responsible for yourself.

John [00:26:46]: Or you can't control your body at that. Like, that's just disrespectful, period.

Nicole [00:26:50]: Right.

John [00:26:50]: You know, so. But that's a different point, you know, But I think what it comes down to is a lot of times guys face this issue, right? Is that because they've heard the advice from us where a guy will be like, all right, so if I'm dating a girl in a serious relationship, she shouldn't have guy friends that she hangs out with.

Unknown_C [00:27:11]: Right?

John [00:27:11]: And that's. And they're like, so if I tell her, you can't have guy friends, the woman's like, that's controlling. And it is because you can't be like, you can't have guy friends. Right, Right. That's controlling because it comes from an insecure place.

Nicole [00:27:26]: I don't think they do it the way that will get them the most understanding.

John [00:27:33]: Because. Because the answer really is not to say, you can't have guy friends. It's to say, I don't like. Like dating someone who hangs out with guys. I don't like it. It doesn't make me feel very good. And I. I don't. I don't appreciate that. Right.

Nicole [00:27:51]: I would say they'd have even better success than what you just said if they approached it as, hey, we're in a serious relationship, or, you know, we're at that level where we are about to be exclusive or in an official relationship. And I. We need to talk about the respect of our relationship. And out of respect for you, I would not have female friends, and I would not, you know, hang out with them with you not around. I wouldn't do this.

Unknown_C [00:28:23]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:23]: And I expect the same from the person that I'm with in return. If you talk about what you're going to do.

Unknown_C [00:28:28]: Right.

John [00:28:29]: I agree.

Nicole [00:28:29]: And then it's the same thing that you're asking somebody else, Right. If one. If they don't agree to that.

John [00:28:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:37]: You know, that person's not for you because you just said it in the best possible way that you could. But I don't know many women that would hear a man say, I'm not gonna follow random girls on Instagram and like their pictures, and I'm not gonna hang out with girlfriends without you around. And I'm not going to go out and party and be like, I don't want that.

Unknown_C [00:28:57]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:58]: Like, that's also what women want. And that's the whole thing, too, is like, if you start by telling somebody how you are going to do the same thing that you expect them to do.

John [00:29:08]: I agree with that, yeah, they will.

Nicole [00:29:10]: Respect you and the whole conversation and understand better from the very beginning.

John [00:29:17]: I think that's, I think that's true. It's. Again, it's a matter of though, of the phrasing.

Nicole [00:29:24]: The phrasing is important for sure.

John [00:29:26]: And what the expectation actually is. Right. So it's like, look, this conversation should have happened when you first became exclusive, but if you didn't, you can still have the conversation, but you have to make that your boundary. But you start with a light boundary which is, I don't like this.

Unknown_C [00:29:43]: Right.

John [00:29:43]: Saying I'm not doing this. There's a reason why I'm not doing it because I have respect for you. I'm not going to hang out with girl. I agree. You can say you're part of it. That's. I'm not. I don't have friends that are female. I don't hang around, you know, because.

Nicole [00:29:56]: You have to think about, because I bring that up. Because you have to think about women, especially women who are going to be afraid of controlling men. If she hears him talk about what he's going to do and it's the same thing that he's about to draw a boundary of, of her. It's, it does not come off as controlling because you're talking about what you're going to do and how that shows the respect for her.

Unknown_C [00:30:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:17]: And now you're like, and I like, I'm having the boundary of that is what I don't like.

John [00:30:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:23]: Like you hanging out with these guys and you know, I would like the same respect back. So if we're going to continue to be in a relationship, that's what I expect from my partner.

John [00:30:34]: Yeah. And it can even be lighter as, as, you know, if, if that's, if you're not okay with that, like, then I might have to, I have to think about whether I want to be in this relationship.

Nicole [00:30:45]: Right.

John [00:30:45]: That's, it's a lightweight. So because you never want to be an ultimatum or like, because then it starts to be on the more controlling when you're like, if you don't do this, you know, ultimately a boundary says not what the other person needs to do, what it says what you're going to do. Right. And so it's up to them. They can do whatever they want to do. You're expressing, look, you can do whatever you want to do. However, if you do these things, this is what I'm going to do. Right. And it has to come across in a non angry, not insulted way, in a very secure Way, meaning that I am making this choice, I'm setting this boundary not because I'm trying to force you to do the thing that I want you to do, but because I have enough respect for myself that I don't want to be around someone who does these things or is. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who, who's doing those, those things. And I'm willing to, I'm willing to lose you or suffer the loss because I have that much respect for myself. And that's the thing is like when you're a man and you're so trying to not lose the girl because you don't want to upset her, that's when you become controlling because you're trying to protect yourself right at her expense, as opposed to having respect for yourself and saying that this is, this is the man that I am. You know, this is what I believe. This is how the, the conditions in which I will allow someone to be in my life. Because this is my standards, this is.

Nicole [00:32:06]: The relationship that I'm looking for.

Unknown_C [00:32:08]: Right?

John [00:32:08]: And that's again, the man has to lead the relationship. He has to set those standards for relationships. That's why also, I say it from this perspective in the sense that many times a woman is not going to necessarily see a problem with hanging out with guys. She's. A lot of times a woman's not going to see a problem with going out to the nightclub to dance with her friends or whatever, or doing girls trips or those things that may be destructive to the relationship. And the guy's gonna have to be the one that's in the position to say, this is not something that we should be doing in our relationship. Right?

Nicole [00:32:37]: That's good verbiage right there. We. That also doesn't come off as controlling.

Unknown_C [00:32:43]: Right.

John [00:32:44]: Although many women will still call it controlling.

Nicole [00:32:47]: But then the guy, they're not the woman for you.

John [00:32:48]: Well, the guy has to be secure enough to not allow that to affect.

Nicole [00:32:52]: Him well, and to understand a boundary versus being actual controlling. Because if you know, you know that you're not being controlling you, it doesn't affect you when people say stuff like that.

John [00:33:02]: But when you're not sure, which is why I wanted to make this episode, then when a woman says, hey, that's controlling and insecure, you're like, well, is it. I mean, a lot of people are saying that's controlling and insecure. Because that's what I get a lot from a lot of guys. I'm like, no, it's not controlling and insecure to set a boundary and to say what you do not like or what you do like and what you want. And then to choose whether you're going to be with someone or not based on that. It. Right.

Nicole [00:33:29]: I want to add that I saw something I saw on King and Michelle's podcast, go check them out. By the way. They were talking about. They saw an influencer guy or something talking about how he made a list of what he wants in his partner.

John [00:33:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:47]: And then I think he was at his therapist, had him do it or something. And then the therapist was like, well, do you check all these boxes off? And he was like, right, no.

John [00:33:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:58]: And so that I feel like is so important as a woman because two, from like a woman's perspective, if a man is asking you to do something that he doesn't plan to do, right. Then that's gonna instantly be controlling. Like, you can't tell a woman. Like you can't go on girls trips, you can't go out to the bars and party. You can't do this. And then you as a man go out and do them.

John [00:34:22]: Yeah, I agree.

Nicole [00:34:23]: Like that in. Because that is controlling. Even if that's a boundary. Even if you're like, I have a boundary where the woman I'm in a relationship with doesn't do these things and she's like, okay, well, but are you gonna do these things? And he's like, yeah, then that's, that's still controlling.

John [00:34:39]: Well, I disagree. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily controlling. It's, it's just, it's somewhat hypocritical. But if, if that's what you want and that's what you decide that how you want.

Nicole [00:34:51]: And, and what woman is going to want a man that can do whatever.

John [00:34:54]: He wants as long as you're okay. As long as you're like, look, this is what I'm like. Because some people are like, I want, you know, and I disagree with open ended relationships, the one side open air relation. But some people want that and some people do want to do that, but.

Nicole [00:35:07]: So it's mostly men who want that.

John [00:35:08]: I agree. Well, there's, there's some, you know, but, but the point is, is if you are not trying to force someone and you're like, this is who I am, this is what I like and this is what I want. And you know, I want to be able to go. It seems so stupid to say it, but if you're like, I want to be able to go out and party, but I don't want you to, like, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone that it's. If you're giving the option and you're not creating a emotional manipulation and they agree to it, then it's not really controlling because they had the opposite. Like, someone taking a bad deal is their fault if they're not tricked into a bad deal. You know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:35:50]: Yeah. It just still doesn't feel. It's. It's weird that you shouldn't be hypocritical with the boundaries that you're setting up. That's also too being like, I don't want to date a person that drinks so much, but then you drink all the time. It's like, that's not really like, Yes, I understand what you're saying and you're right. Like, as long as it is an actual boundary. And you know, that person shows that even though it's not the best idea. I get that. And you are right.

Unknown_C [00:36:17]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:17]: But I think it is better, especially with men who struggle with coming, like, being afraid that they're coming off as controlling.

John [00:36:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:25]: If you are doing what you're asking somebody, like, you know, you're following the same rules.

Unknown_C [00:36:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:32]: Of the relationship and of your life, then a person is going to more easily be able to jump in or change their mind about something like that because you are doing it. You are leading by example.

John [00:36:43]: Exactly. And, and the good thing about is because one of the immediate responses you're going to get when you tell someone, hey, I'm not really comfortable with you going out with your girlfriends to drink at a nightclub, as they're going to say, I don't care if you do it. Right. That's the defense. Right. And the only way you can, if you already know that that might be the answer, and you say, hey, out of respect for you, I don't do this. And then you. And then you say what you don't like. Then if they say, well, I don't care if you do it, it sounds like it sounds bad on there. It's hard for them to say that at that point because it's like, well.

Nicole [00:37:24]: Well, that kind of. You can give me permission to do.

John [00:37:26]: It, but it doesn't change that I'm not going to do it.

Nicole [00:37:28]: But that, that is an answer of when you should walk away.

John [00:37:31]: Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:37:33]: That is the answer that you're looking for because that is not. That doesn't line up with somebody that would do something like that. And so that means that you have to walk away from that person. And that's the hardest part of boundaries, right? Is you actually have to walk away.

John [00:37:49]: Yeah. You have to be willing to walk away.

Nicole [00:37:50]: And it has to be just like, threaten it. Like, oh, are you sure that's your answer? Like, do you want to change your answer? Because, like, that means we're not going to be together. No.

John [00:37:59]: Like, right now, then. Now you're controlling.

Nicole [00:38:01]: If I said that and somebody was like, well, you can go out. Like, if I. When you and I first started dating, if I was like, hey, like. Like, I don't want you going out to the bars and stuff without me. Like, that is the type of relationship that I'm expecting. You can do that if you want. Yeah, I know. I. I'm.

John [00:38:19]: Now you did it. You're kind of in the controlling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:38:23]: If you're like, if I want to be in. Does not involve somebody who's going out to bars, because I don't plan to do that myself. And you were like, well, I don't care if you go out to bars. I'd be like, no. I'd be like, this isn't. This isn't the right relationship. Then, yeah. I'm like, I would let you go and do it.

Unknown_C [00:38:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:39]: But I would walk away. I'd be like, okay, that's like, you don't. The. Because if you go further with somebody who's like, well, you could do it. Now you're getting into, like, are you persuading that person? Do they really want to go out and do it? And, like, they're kind of defending going out.

John [00:38:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:38:55]: Which is not really somebody who seems like they're ready to settle down with somebody.

John [00:38:59]: But. But sometimes there is some leadership that needs to be done.

Unknown_C [00:39:01]: Right.

John [00:39:02]: Because a lot of. Well, and also a lot of women, they don't want to hear anything that a guy tells them that they, quote, can't do. And I know that's not what's happening in this case, but a lot of women will react to any kind of, don't tell me what to do.

Unknown_C [00:39:16]: Right?

John [00:39:17]: Don't tell me what I should wear.

Nicole [00:39:18]: Don't tell me unhealed.

John [00:39:19]: I agree. Trauma, but they can be healed by the right guy having actual boundaries and standing firm on that and saying, okay, you know, I'm just telling you what I don't like and what I want in a relationship. And you can do whatever you want to do and then let her and see what she does. And many times, if you're patient as a man she will come back to you and she'll say, I thought about it, and I don't actually want to do this. Right, right. And I. And I'm speaking about this from experience with guys that have said that's what they've done. And the women came back and. And gave a positive response and said, hey, I like that you have boundaries and that you're, you know, because it's a secure way, it creates saf.

Unknown_C [00:40:02]: Instability.

John [00:40:03]: A woman does want a man to set boundaries. Right. Any person wants a person to know that they care enough about them that they actually care.

Nicole [00:40:11]: That's what boundaries are. Yeah, they get confused. They think boundaries, like, confines the relationship, but it's actually giving somebody understanding into how to better your relationship.

John [00:40:26]: And there are some parallels. And I. I'm reluctant to say this, but there are some parallels. Right. So don't misinterpret this. Don't anyone misinterpret this. But that's what.

Nicole [00:40:36]: I'm giving the caveat.

John [00:40:37]: I'm giving the caveat. But there are some parallels between parenting and being a man in a relationship in the sense that, look, if you. If you say to a child, you can do whatever you want, okay? That child does not feel loved. If you tell a woman you can do whatever you want, that woman does not feel loved. You have to have some kind of boundaries, some kind of standards. Right. Because being a man, it's really being a man, whether you're in the context of a relationship just with a woman or being a man, being the father in a family, it's still the same role. And that's why there's a parallel. Not because you should treat a woman like a child. That's not what I'm saying at all. Just want to be clear on that. But being a man, being a father figure, being the, for lack of a better word, patriarch of the. Of the family. Right. It means that you have certain ways that you act and that you create safety for everybody. You create boundaries for everybody. That's your responsibility. It's not that a woman can't set boundaries. Of course she should have her own boundaries, but you create the big boundaries that create safety.

Unknown_C [00:41:39]: Right.

John [00:41:39]: And that's why I talk about this from a guy's perspective. Yeah. A woman could also have this exact thing between being controlling or being dominant or secure in the way, and she can set her boundaries. But a man many times needs to lead the relationship and set these proper boundaries for the relationship and needs to be standing firm on this, because sometimes he does need to Educate and teach a little bit about this. Because a woman might not see that there's anything wrong with these things.

Unknown_C [00:42:06]: Right.

John [00:42:07]: But a wise man that has some experience would say, okay, yeah, this is dangerous territory for the relationship and he should be leading by example 100%. But men get tripped up in this because they're too insecure and they're afraid of losing the girl and they're afraid of rocking the boat. Right. And so they're trying to actually so hard to not be controlling that they actually do come across as controlling. And women run away from that. Whereas if they were more secure and they're like, look, I'm a high value man, I'm a good guy, I don't treat people wrong and I have enough respect for myself that these are the things that I think are important in a relationship and that are important in my life and I'm setting these boundaries, then a woman is going to have a lot more. She might not always agree with the guy, but she's going to definitely have respect for him and she's going to make the choice. Do I want to give up some of the things that maybe she doesn't even agree with? Maybe she's like, it's fine. I know when I go out with my friends that we're not hitting on guys. Nothing's going to happen. But she's like, because it makes him uncomfortable. And I value this guy.

Nicole [00:43:10]: She cares about him. Yeah.

John [00:43:11]: I'm going to give that up and instead do this thing. And it's her choice as opposed to being forced into it or emotionally manipulated into it. Where it's like, if you don't do this, I'm going to be mad at you. It's like, no, it's like you can do what you want. However, based on what you do, I'm going to make choices whether I want to be in this relationship. I'm not going to threaten you and say, if you do this, I'm going to give you emotional consequences and make you feel bad about yourself and, and harass you instead. It just may be something that is going to be a deal breaker for me and I might not have to, you know, no hard feelings, but it's not the thing for me. And that's, that's the difference. I mean, hopefully I've made it really clear because it gets confused so much, you know?

Nicole [00:43:54]: Yeah, it's a fine line.

John [00:43:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:56]: But boundaries are really the key. And I know I misspoke earlier, but it's hard. Controlled you because it's hard phrasing is very important. And that's why I mentioned, too, that if a guy comes at it as like, I'm gonna do these things and then has his boundaries showing that he's already doing them because that's the principle he lives by, it's more believable that this is the principle for a relationship with him. Does that make sense?

John [00:44:21]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:44:21]: Because if he's living it and he's like, this is a relationship that I, you know, want to be in. This is what I expect from a relationship that I'm in.

Unknown_C [00:44:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:44:31]: He's proving that by already doing those things.

Unknown_C [00:44:34]: Right.

John [00:44:34]: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Right. It's like, you know, because it might also be a situation where, look, as a man, maybe you can handle your alcohol and you don't go crazy and do like, you can, you can get drunk and you're. You're actually even fine. Like, you're not, you know, you're not doing stupid shit. But maybe you're dating a woman where when she has a few drinks, she's, like, doing all kinds of stuff and like, she, she gets out of control. And so maybe then you say, well, I could handle it, but I'm not gonna. I'm not going to tell her she can't drink. I'm going to just stop drinking so that she stops drinking. Right. Even though I can handle it and she can't. Right. You see what I'm saying? It's kind of like what your point before is, don't have those expectations.

Nicole [00:45:18]: Hypocritical somebody and you not doing the.

John [00:45:21]: Same thing, even if you could do it and it wouldn't be a problem for you. You know what I mean? Because you're showing by example that I'm willing to make a sacrifice in order to make.

Nicole [00:45:29]: And that's what a man has to do to be a leader in authority in a relationship. Like, he can't just be like, I'm the leader, I'm the authority.

Unknown_C [00:45:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:45:36]: Like, you have to prove it. Like, especially most people today aren't going to just believe somebody's words. They're going to believe their actions. Because people can say whatever they want until they're blue in the face, but they have to prove that they're backing that up. And if you do something like you just said, then you're proving that one, you're willing to stop doing something even though you can handle it, to lead the relationship in a better, healthier, like place.

John [00:46:04]: Yeah, if I'm going to Tell someone to do 10 push ups. I'm going to do 100 push ups. Because then they can't. You just, you see what I'm saying? Then they can't say anything against you, right? But if I say, go do 10 push ups and they're like, you, are you going to do it? No, I don't need to. I don't need to prove anything.

Nicole [00:46:17]: Right?

John [00:46:18]: It's like, okay, well, it's really hard to. But if you do a hundred, then it's really hard for them to say, oh, I'm not going to do 10. Right? So yeah, but, but it comes from that place of security versus insecurity. And women can sense it off of a guy. And if a guy's coming across as insecure, man, she like, it's so weird because in that scenario, if, if, if it was a different guy, right? And he flat out even told her, hey, I don't like you drinking that much, right. She would have probably had a different reaction and had more respect for him and not broke up with him than the guy lightly saying, oh, be careful. Because when the guy says, oh, be careful, it sends off a red flag.

Nicole [00:47:01]: But see, I don't like you drinking that much is even kind of like borderline.

John [00:47:06]: It's like, but you're saying, I don't like it.

Unknown_C [00:47:09]: Right?

John [00:47:10]: It's not saying don't do it.

Nicole [00:47:11]: Yeah, but some of the guys who are controlling kind of start with things like that. And I get what you're saying is like, you're not saying, like, don't do that.

Unknown_C [00:47:20]: Right?

Nicole [00:47:21]: But I think that's why you have to, you probably have to say a little bit more than just like, I don't like that.

John [00:47:27]: I mean, the advice I give guys is always to start with, I don't like this. I like this. Because I'll tell you why. Because that should be the strongest rebuke that you ever have to give as a man is just your disapproval of I don't like or I don't like or I do like. Because a woman should want to please you as a man. She should want to, she should not want to do things that displease you.

Nicole [00:47:48]: So if a woman says, I don't like something that a man's doing, should he take that into consideration just as much? Because, like, we've been talking about the hypocritical thing.

John [00:47:59]: He should take it into consideration. But also the dynamic is different between the masculine and the feminine.

Unknown_C [00:48:04]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:05]: Again, but what do you mean by that?

John [00:48:06]: What I mean by that.

Nicole [00:48:07]: Is that in this instance, like, so does that mean that he doesn't necessarily have to do it? If she was like, I don't like you drinking that much, what would you say to the guy? Like, how should a guy respond?

John [00:48:18]: How should a guy respond if a woman says, I don't like you drinking that much?

Nicole [00:48:21]: Yeah, because I can understand, and I think where you're coming from is if she's like, I don't think we should do this, but you think as a man and for the whole family and whatever, it'd be more beneficial. But I'm talking about, like, if the tables were completely turned, right? And she was like, I don't like you drinking that much. I don't like how you behave towards me when you drink this much, what.

John [00:48:42]: Would you say he should take. He should fix that situation. Right. So whatever it takes for him to fix that situation. Right. She's given her input on the thing, and now it's your responsibility as a man to figure out, how do you solve this problem? Right. What are you going to do? Are you going to cut back the drinking? Sure. That could be one solution. Are you going to cut back the behavior? That could be another solution. Right.

Nicole [00:49:04]: So is that something that you would expect from her too, or you expect her to just stop drinking?

John [00:49:09]: I expect it. I expect in that case that it's going to show whether this woman actually cares about you at all. Right. Because it's different. Again, the dynamic is different in the sense that if. If a woman doesn't care about a guy, doesn't look up to a guy and respect the kind of things that are important to him or not, then she really doesn't. She really doesn't like the guy. Right. Whereas it's not exactly the same when you flip it.

Unknown_C [00:49:39]: Right?

John [00:49:40]: So because a woman that really likes a guy will really care whether or not she's doing things that he doesn't.

Nicole [00:49:48]: Like or not, but a man doesn't.

John [00:49:50]: It's not. It's not. Not to the. Not to the same degree. Not to the same degree.

Nicole [00:49:54]: But what if she has a boundary and then she leaves you?

John [00:49:57]: That's fine and that's appropriate, right? If she has a boundary, she said it's a boundary. She leaves because that you're. You're violating that boundary. That's a choice that, that she's making, that she doesn't want to be with the guy that does this thing.

Nicole [00:50:10]: Right.

John [00:50:11]: That's fair.

Nicole [00:50:11]: And I hear what you're saying, but I think there is, there should be at least Maybe it's not like, respect respect, because I know men value respect very highly and women want to be loved. But. But I think, like we mentioned in that episode about love and respect, that there is respect in love and there is love in respect.

John [00:50:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:36]: And I think, though, that even though a man might be the one to make the decision at the end of the day and is the authority and whatnot, I do think there has to be the same amount of, like, respect and love in that mixture for both people. Because I don't think that it's okay. Like I mentioned, I think that it's okay for a man to be like, okay, I hear you, but we're gonna do this and explain why he chose a different way.

Unknown_C [00:51:03]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:04]: But I don't think it's fair for that, for a guy to just decide what he wants to do but expect a woman to, like, change all the things, if that makes sense.

John [00:51:13]: Like, I agree.

Nicole [00:51:14]: I think there still has to be the same level of showing somebody you care about them, which I think is what you're mainly suggesting here, is that seeing that the woman cares about you as a man, I think there still has to be that level from the man. And I'm not saying he has to do it in the exact way as a woman, but I do think that it has to be on the same playing field. Because I feel like you have to admire each other and care about each other.

John [00:51:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:41]: To the same level. Or there'll always be a balance that feels off in your relationship.

John [00:51:49]: Absolutely. Yeah. I think what it comes down to, again, it gets. We get into the weeds. But the complexity of it, which is related, is that a man can never change his mind or do something just because a woman has told him. He can never do that because he has to stand on his judgment 100%. Otherwise, she cannot trust him. If she can tell a guy that she doesn't like something that he's doing, and then he completely changes that.

Nicole [00:52:21]: But what if she explains it in a way he understands?

John [00:52:24]: So that's the difference, is taking it into account. And now he's like, oh, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you. And if he truly agrees with her, then he makes that decision, and she's influenced him, and it's great. Perfectly fine. What a lot of guys do is.

Nicole [00:52:40]: Again, they try to be peacemakers.

John [00:52:42]: Yes, peacemakers. They're afraid of losing the girl. She says, I don't like this, or whatever it is, or, I want to do this. I want to spend this money on this thing, and he just goes along with it because he doesn't want to tell her no.

Nicole [00:52:55]: Well, that's where the delicate balance is, Right. Like, you can't be a peacemaker, but you can't be controlling either. Like, you have to be. It has to be in the middle. Like as a woman, if a man is just going to tell you no because he can't be influenced by a woman. I'm not saying that you're. I'm trying to explain.

John [00:53:16]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:53:16]: But if he's just gonna say no just because he can't change his mind as a woman, you're not a good leader. You're not a good man. You're not who you think that you are. A good leader. And a good man listens to what people have to say.

Unknown_C [00:53:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:30]: And I mean, a good person in general listens to what people has to say.

Unknown_C [00:53:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:35]: And can own up to the fact that they might change their perspective on something.

John [00:53:41]: Yeah. Because that's exactly the same. If. If I, as a man am like, oh, I can't. I can't change my mind because you asked me to. And so it's an automatic no.

Unknown_C [00:53:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:53:51]: That's very immature, too.

John [00:53:53]: Well, then I'm actually being controlled by you because you just have to do the opposite. And then you get me to dance however you want me to dance. You see what I'm saying? Because I'm not actually still relying on my judgment. Right. Because as a woman, you want to test insecurity too. As a woman, you want to test me. As a man, you want to know two things. One, that I'm not going to do things, crumble under pressure. You want to know that I'm not going to do things just because you want me to. But you also want to know that I'm not going to use a double negative. Not. Not do things just because you don't want me to. Right. It's like you can't control me either way, otherwise I'm weak. You have to know that I'm listening to what you have to say. But at the end of the day, I'm taking that into account and making a judgment call. Relying on my judgment what I think.

Nicole [00:54:41]: The information that you have exactly from.

John [00:54:43]: From that, it can't come from a place of. I'm doing it for any other reason than I think this is the right choice. If you feel like you have influenced me to a degree that I'm making a choice that's against my own conscience or my own belief of what is correct based on the information that I have, then you know I'm weak and you know you can't trust me and you know you can't trust anything that I'm saying or doing. Then you can't trust my leadership because you know that anyone can influence me because I'm afraid of the consequences as opposed to I'm making a judgment call based on what I actually believe is the correct thing to do.

Unknown_C [00:55:17]: Right? Right.

John [00:55:18]: Any leader, if they're making a judgment call based on people influencing them, being lobbied against versus this is the actual correct thing to do, then you can't trust them. So that's why there is a difference with the liking part there. But, but ultimately it's about the insecurity versus security. A secure man that knows and trusts his own decisions and trusts that he's going to make good judgment calls. He's not going to be afraid of losing people in his life that are not willing to meet those standards that he has for his life and his family and his relationship. He's not going to be afraid of that. So he's not going to change his values in order to avoid the pain of loss. And that's what it comes down to. And when we look at that scenario with that guy in the email, he was changing his values. He was misrepresenting his values in order to avoid the loss. That's why he called her up and tried to get back with her and, and all this stuff. It's like, look, if you're at a party and, and you, and you are telling a girl that you're dating, hey, be careful when she's drinking too much and then she gets upset and calls you controlling all that stuff and then you still want to get back together with her and you're still trying to get her to like, you should just be like, wow, that's, I had a concern for you and I tried to voice it in a nice way, I'm going to leave. And then it's up to her if she wants to come to you and say, oh, I'm sorry, that was a way overreaction. I had a bad relationship before where my husband was controlling and I shouldn't have. I know that you're just trying to look out, let her repair that. Otherwise you're like, hey, I have standards and respect for myself. Even if you've screwed up to that point, he could have still recovered by, by doing that. But that's what I'm saying about the whole thing. It all comes down to respect for yourself and security. If you're coming from an insecure place. You will always make the wrong choices. Everything you say will always be wrong. You will always end up on the.

Nicole [00:57:18]: Line of forcing anybody to do anything. That's really the key is like having the boundary rather than these rules.

John [00:57:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:57:26]: Or whatever you're trying to put in place. But yeah, it just sounds like he's definitely a people pleaser and he doesn't want to lose her. But. And the thing that these sort of guys have an issue with, that they don't even realize that's repelling women from them is like you said, he said, ish, that he had a boundary or he got upset about something, but then now he's begging her to come back. That just makes a woman or a person in general feel like it doesn't matter about you as a person, that they just need somebody.

Unknown_C [00:58:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:02]: Or exactly like that you're not special. They just like got upset with you. And instead of holding their boundary and like actually acting on what they said, if they have a boundary now, they're just running back to you. Even though you did something that upset them right now you can't really trust them because you're like, well, weren't you not going to be in a relationship with somebody that acted this way now? Because even if you have a boundary, Right. And you say that.

Unknown_C [00:58:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:29]: That's why the key is that you have to follow through. Because plenty of people also be like, this is my boundary.

Unknown_C [00:58:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:36]: And then the person breaks it and they're like, well, do you want to still be together? Like, you know, or like, no, I still want to be with you. It's like, okay, now that person can't take you seriously. They don't respect you as much because you went against your own word.

John [00:58:49]: Exactly. And you. And you were the one who did it. If you had a boundary and someone broke the boundary and then you did what you said you were going to do.

Nicole [00:58:55]: Right.

John [00:58:56]: And then they came to you and said, I'm really sorry, that's different. And then you said, okay, like, this.

Nicole [00:59:02]: Is still the boundary.

John [00:59:03]: This is still the boundary. Right. That can even happen a couple of times. I mean, you have to use your discretion there, whether you feel like they're actually sincere. But what I'm saying is that depends.

Nicole [00:59:11]: On the boundary too.

John [00:59:12]: That's. That's different. That's different than you, than, than them violating the boundary and you saying.

Nicole [00:59:18]: And you chase them.

John [00:59:19]: Yeah. Or, or you're like, ah, okay, one more try. I'll give you one more chance. You Know what I mean? Then, then you're. Then it's weak, pathetic. Then it means nothing.

Nicole [00:59:28]: Right, Right.

John [00:59:28]: So. So there, there. So you can. But it. But there's a difference between those. Those things. So.

Nicole [00:59:33]: Yeah, but that's the key is to actually walk away and remember, if you.

John [00:59:37]: Need to, she married. She broke up with the nice guy that said, you know, again, I'm not.

Nicole [00:59:44]: Saying she got divorced.

John [00:59:45]: Well, but she married the guy. What I'm saying is that. But she immediately broke up with the. The nice guy.

Nicole [00:59:51]: She was forced to marry him. It was a rule. You have to marry me.

John [00:59:56]: But she chose to stay with that guy for however long. What I'm saying is though, immediately she broke up with the guy that presented his weakness. So what I'm saying is that it's not right. But a woman would rather be with a strong man that says what he wants and is clear about it than a wishy washy guy who's a pushover. And you know, even if he's a jerk or an asshole. I'm not saying you should be a jerk or an asshole. Don't get me wrong. But I'm just saying that like, just understand this. Men that are watching that being the guy that is insecure and is afraid of losing the girl and is doing all these things to try and keep her or to, you know, that's always going to make you lose the girl. She's going to lose respect for you.

Unknown_C [01:00:36]: Right?

Nicole [01:00:37]: Yeah.

John [01:00:38]: She's going to pick the. And that's why you guys wonder like, why does she pick the. Because the doesn't care what other people think. Because he might be an. And she'd rather not be with an. She'd rather be with a kind guy, but.

Nicole [01:00:49]: But he still has to have balls.

John [01:00:51]: But at least she respects the. You know, to a degree. Until she does.

Nicole [01:00:54]: He does what he says he's going to do.

Unknown_C [01:00:55]: Right.

Nicole [01:00:56]: Even though he doesn't care about other people.

John [01:00:57]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:00:58]: So the other guy will just chase you no matter what you do.

John [01:01:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:02]: And so you don't feel special. That's what I'm trying to say is like. Or say you don't. Yeah, exactly. And so it's like you don't want that.

John [01:01:09]: Yeah. It kind of goes back to the killer in our previous episode too. Because it's like. Well, yeah, like obviously you don't want to be with a killer, but there is sort of this attraction to a guy that will actually do things. So that's not, That's. That is not afraid to, you know, you Know, like protect exactly somebody or themselves or whatever.

Nicole [01:01:32]: He's, you know, hurt you, but, yeah, your family, whatever.

Unknown_C [01:01:35]: Right.

John [01:01:36]: But there's that natural built in attraction. And so. Yeah. So, okay, I hope that. I think that makes it pretty clear between.

Nicole [01:01:43]: I'm not a man, so I don't know.

John [01:01:44]: I hope so. I. I think so. But, but like, like I said, it's like, don't allow women to manipulate you with, with saying you're controlling, insecure. But don't be controlling and insecure. And know what the difference. If you know what the difference is, you'll come in armed and ready. And you're not going to be manipulated because you know, you can't be gaslit if you know the truth about it. And if you know, look, I'm standing on. I didn't tell you what you have to do. I didn't try to emotionally manipulate you. I just told you what I don't like and what my boundaries are and.

Nicole [01:02:14]: What type of relationship you want to be in.

Unknown_C [01:02:16]: Right. So.

John [01:02:17]: And it goes for anyone, the, the same advice could apply to a woman dealing with a man, that women should have boundaries.

Unknown_C [01:02:24]: Right?

Nicole [01:02:24]: You should walk away. And then like you said, you have to stay, walk like, you have to stay away from that man and he might come back.

Unknown_C [01:02:33]: Right?

Nicole [01:02:34]: And you have to, you get to determine if that's going to happen or not. Still have your boundary. And you get to determine if you want to be with him again and give him another chance. But as a woman, you should definitely have boundaries as well, too.

John [01:02:47]: And it's going to get tested too, right? Because that's the other thing is guys always think that what I'm telling them is some magical formula that's going to make women do what they want. And that's not true. Because if you go and tell a woman that you've been dating for a while that you don't like her hanging out with guys, and that's something that you're not comfortable with and not sure if you want to be a relationship with someone who's doing that and you're not hanging out with a girl and then she gets pissed off at you and, and says, no way. You got to let it lie. You got to say, oh, you got to take her answer for what it is and be willing to walk. And then many times she will come around, but you can't expect her to come around and you can't be doing it in order to get her to come around, you know, because now you're. Now it's controlling now it is manipulation. Now you've, You've. You've done it in order to get a response from someone. Like, you're hoping that. That she'll choose you over having fun with her guy friends. But if she doesn't, you have to be okay with it.

Nicole [01:03:43]: Here's probably the biggest key to boundaries. They should not change from person to person.

Unknown_C [01:03:52]: Right? Right.

Nicole [01:03:54]: Because if they do.

Unknown_C [01:03:55]: Right.

John [01:03:56]: Then it's manipulation.

Nicole [01:03:58]: Then it's manipulation. Then you're just trying to turn that person into what you want.

John [01:04:03]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:03]: Your boundaries should not be dependent on who that person is.

Unknown_C [01:04:08]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:08]: It should be in general, no matter what the person is, because then you can walk away from the person.

Unknown_C [01:04:14]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:14]: If your boundaries are based on the things that you will or will not tolerate.

Unknown_C [01:04:19]: Right.

John [01:04:19]: And.

Nicole [01:04:19]: Or that you. You want or you don't want in a relationship.

John [01:04:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:04:23]: It doesn't matter who's sitting in front of you on a date.

Unknown_C [01:04:26]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:26]: Because you could go on multiple dates with somebody and then they cross one of your boundaries that you expressed or, you know, you talked about it, and then the next time you see them, they cross a boundary. If that's your actual boundary and how you actually want to operate in a relationship. It doesn't matter if you've been on one date or 20 dates.

Unknown_C [01:04:46]: Right.

John [01:04:46]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [01:04:47]: It matters about the boundary.

John [01:04:49]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:49]: And that does not. It doesn't have anything to do with the person.

John [01:04:52]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:53]: As everything to do with you and what your boundary is.

John [01:04:56]: Yeah. It's the same thing as if you had a job applicant. You're trying to fill a job, and your requirement for the job was that, I don't know, they had to have a college degree or. Or a degree in. In marketing. In marketing, let's say. Right. And then people came in and they didn't have the degree in marketing, and they're like, you're trying to control me.

Nicole [01:05:17]: Right.

John [01:05:17]: You're not. But if you're making. If it's a. If it's a flexible, like, if that's not really your boundary, then don't say that. It. It actually is. Yeah.

Unknown_C [01:05:26]: Right.

John [01:05:27]: But it's, you know, so it's. It's the same thing. Like, there's. There's no reason why you can't say what it is that you require.

Nicole [01:05:34]: Right.

John [01:05:35]: Oh, all right. I think that beating that dead horse.

Nicole [01:05:41]: Hopefully the men understand.

John [01:05:43]: Yeah. And women. Hopefully. Because it's like, you know, I think a lot of times women also get confused by this because of the way that men approach it. And then they're like, oh, he's saying, I can't have guy friends. That's controlling.

Nicole [01:05:56]: That's why.

John [01:05:58]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:05:58]: The best possible way to approach a lot of that stuff is to talk about what you're going to do, because that also establishes trust within the woman that you do what you say you're going to do.

John [01:06:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:08]: And that you're living by a standard that you also want in a partner.

Unknown_C [01:06:13]: Right.

Nicole [01:06:14]: So she will respect you a lot more that way as well, too, if you frame it from that perspective.

John [01:06:20]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:22]: Well, for our thing for the week, since you already did that, I guess I could say that we were talking about parenting stuff the other night.

John [01:06:32]: Oh, yeah.

Nicole [01:06:33]: And I was, like, trying to fill you in on some of the stuff because I spend most of the time with her during the day. And I, like, agreed with what you said, but I didn't say it out loud to you. And so you felt like, like, not like I wasn't agreeing with you, but that I didn't acknowledge it. Like, you didn't know I acknowledged it even though in my brain I was, like, just not bringing it up because I was like, that makes logical sense. But I realized that I needed to verbalize that more to you, you know, like, telling you, like, yeah, that's a good idea. I agree with that. Rather than just in my head, I'm like, oh, I agree with that. So we don't have to talk about that. Let's talk about this other thing.

John [01:07:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:07:11]: So, yeah, I. I'm sorry that I didn't, like, acknowledge the things that I agreed with you on when we were having that conversation, because I understand you can't read my mind and, like, the. The confirmation of just even just being like, yeah, I agree with what you said. That's a good idea. Just makes a person feel good. And I just forgot to, like, I agreed, but I forgot to, like, verbalize that. And so I'm sorry.

John [01:07:42]: Okay.

Nicole [01:07:44]: I need to work on that for sure.

John [01:07:45]: Yeah. I think. I think just as a guy, as a. As a. When you're in a leader position or anytime you're in a leadership position, it's good to have some confirmation that, like, yeah, that was a good decision you made. Like, you're doing. Because it's hard because sometimes you're like, am I making good decisions? I think I am, but.

Nicole [01:08:00]: Well, and you do make good decisions. And it's like, I don't take it for granted, but it's just an autopilot thing. So I'm normally just used to telling you, like, oh, like, Talking about the things that need to be fixed or, like, something to get your perspective on or things like that. And I do tend to forget to tell you that I appreciate, you know, the decisions that you make and that they're good ideas because you normally do make them good ideas. And I'm just like, everything's fine. So, like, in my mind, when we were talking about it, I was like, oh, yeah, that he makes. Makes tons of sense. Everything's fine. I don't have to say anything. But. Yeah, Then I realized that I do still need to give you that acknowledgment. I'm sorry. I didn't. It wasn't intentional. No, I just.

John [01:08:44]: I know. Yeah. And I didn't take a lot of offense.

Nicole [01:08:46]: No, no. But you expressed that, you know, you felt a certain type of way about it, and I'm glad that you did, because it wasn't my.

John [01:08:54]: Yeah, well, it was good. It was. It was a helpful exercise for me, too, to help. Well, because for me to just say calmly what was troubling me as opposed to, like, getting all bent out of shape about, you know, it's like, because I had come from an environment where I was not able to say what was bothering me. You know what I'm saying? And so it's refreshing to be able to just tell you, and then you're like, oh, okay, I didn't mean to, you know, do that. And it's fixed. So. Yeah, but it's a. Yeah, but I appreciate that. So.

Nicole [01:09:25]: Yeah.

John [01:09:26]: All right, well, that's it for this episode. Like us. Follow us, leave us iTunes reviews.

Nicole [01:09:34]: Yeah. Comment on.

John [01:09:35]: Or don't. Or don't. Because we're okay if you don't. We'll be fine without you guys, you know, on our own with our. We're just gonna do our podcast. We're not gonna.

Nicole [01:09:44]: I'm just here.

John [01:09:46]: Same for the secure versus, you know, the insecure. Leave us. Leave us a review or we'll cry.

Nicole [01:09:53]: Oh, my gosh.

John [01:09:55]: Don't want to be controlling, you know. All right, see you next time. Through every fault we find our way.