John [00:00:00]: The reason why I'm not so harsh on Gold diggers, right, for women is because you can't be as a man. You really can't be. And I'll tell you why. Because 90% of men that are watching this podcast, if they were given the opportunities in order to trade their body or their sexuality for money, they would do it. How many guys, if they could be on Only Fans and could make $20,000 a month, $100,000 a month on Only Fans, how many guys will be showing every part of their. Whatever anatomy that they could do in any kind of disgusting, sick thing? Beyond the perfect we discovered through our fl. We complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:55]: I thought you might have a problem this time just because you didn't do it in a British accent like you did last time.

John [00:01:00]: You know, can't. Can't always do it in a British. People start thinking I'm weird and stuff.

Nicole [00:01:07]: It's okay to be weird, but.

John [00:01:09]: Yeah, but I mean, we. We didn't miss a. An episode, but we were. We were out last week because.

Nicole [00:01:15]: Yeah.

John [00:01:16]: Of the shooting of the film. The big. My big movie debut. So it went good.

Nicole [00:01:22]: Yeah. And we finished Love is Blind, the Reunion.

John [00:01:24]: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Nicole [00:01:27]: That was a mess. I mean, at least they were, like, calling each other out, but I felt like there was something that they got. I don't know now.

John [00:01:38]: They didn't really let people off the hook this time like they did usually in the reunions. They. They. Yeah, they pretty much called out.

Nicole [00:01:45]: They need to, though, like, not let.

John [00:01:47]: Them off the hook. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:01:50]: They used to. Definitely left. Let them off the hook.

John [00:01:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:53]: But now they, like, they troll the Internet and find out all the things that everybody's talking about, and then they bring them up at the reunion. Because the reunion. Well, it was supposed to be live that one time, right?

John [00:02:04]: Oh, yeah, yeah. That was a disaster. They're like, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:02:08]: But I think they do shoot it, like, recent, because that's how they know all the things that are going on, obviously. But yeah, they. It was definitely. I don't know, like, with Hannah. Hannah, right. And Nick.

John [00:02:21]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:02:22]: Like, that was just like. It's like, who's telling the truth? Like, I can see that guy trying to be.

John [00:02:27]: Just try to be famous. Yes.

Nicole [00:02:29]: But also, like, I don't know if he did a very good job, if.

John [00:02:32]: That was his goal, like, he's obviously not very smart. Right. There's no way to say it, you know, but. But. But, like, the thing. The most compelling thing to me was, I don't care how dumb you are. No one is taking the abuse that she was dishing out and not. I mean, he was just, like, smiling while she's, like, telling him how to, like, live his life and how to be a man. Right. So I think he just. He clearly, he was, you know, just trying not to make waves.

Nicole [00:03:04]: Yeah.

John [00:03:04]: Right. So. Because who is going to listen? I mean, the stuff that she said to him at some point, she was just saying stuff just to see if he would react. I think, like, how far can I push this? Because she suspected.

Nicole [00:03:16]: I'm not excusing Hannah's behavior in any way, but I feel like she wanted him to step up and be the man that she needed him to be, and she thought she could do that with, like, the tough love. But then it wasn't working, and she just got more and more frustrated. So she just got more and more mean to him because, like, she wasn't that mean to him in the beginning. And then I think she just kept losing respect for him. Go watch the Love and Respect episode. Yeah, but, like, she kept losing respect for him. And so it got more and more, like, criticizing and just, like, demeaning to him.

John [00:03:49]: Ye.

Nicole [00:03:49]: Yeah. Like, which is wrong. I'm not justifying it, but that, I think, is the path that they went down.

John [00:03:56]: Yeah, but that's also what it's going to. It's just an accelerated relationship, because that's how women end up in relationships. They end up like that a lot of times, just like we. We've talked about in episodes. Because a guy doesn't have a boundary. He doesn't. He just to. The more that you just. The more you're just going to get.

Nicole [00:04:11]: The more you tolerate, the less respect she has. Yeah, you're right.

John [00:04:14]: Yeah. But. But, yeah. In other news, I'm going to go back to acting school. Acting classes.

Nicole [00:04:21]: I'm going back to acting school.

John [00:04:24]: Rekindled my passion for acting so.

Nicole [00:04:27]: Well, it's funny, we went to Minnesota last weekend because I had forgotten that at the end of the Love Is Blind reunion, they had a few people from the next season, which is in Minnesota.

John [00:04:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:39]: And we were hanging out with a couple, and the girl was telling me how they just finished shooting in Minnesota, actually, the show. So that was kind of funny that we ended up in the Place that they were shooting at, but. And then you were shooting your scene there. So.

John [00:04:57]: Yeah, it's because it's meant to be.

Nicole [00:05:00]: Which Minnesota. Luckily it wasn't that cold. We thought it was going to be cold. It was like 50 something which like people were walking around in like shorts and or short sleeves. Like they weren't in full summer attire. But after having learned that it gets negative 20 in Minnesota, 50 degrees is like beautiful there. But yeah, it was nice. We went to the Mall of America.

John [00:05:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:25]: Which was.

John [00:05:27]: It is the Mall of America crazy.

Nicole [00:05:28]: It was actually like. Okay. It had a full blown like amusement park in the middle of it.

John [00:05:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:33]: But it was kind of smaller than I thought it was.

John [00:05:36]: Okay.

Nicole [00:05:37]: In a weird way I guess too. It's kind of like when I went to Vegas for the first time, I was like, this is it. Like I think in your mind you're just like, this is going to be huge. Like yeah. I don't know, like bit really big. And then you go and it's, it's big but it's not like as big as you pictured. So you're kind of like, oh, this is.

John [00:05:54]: Yeah, the parking garage was bigger than.

Nicole [00:05:57]: That's true, the parking garage and you know, very large. But yeah, yeah, it was crazy. They had some like roller coasters in there and yeah, we played mini golf and John won. I think it's because of the pressure though.

John [00:06:11]: I think so.

Nicole [00:06:12]: But it got backed up so far because of all these people trying to play mini golf and kids swinging their golf clubs like a baseball bat in a small area. So I was like, no.

John [00:06:26]: Well, what do you got for us today? I mean, I already know, but that's.

Nicole [00:06:31]: Because you always ask me what topic are you gonna do? And I tell you I should just be like, I don't know and then spring it on you. But we're going to talk about gold diggers.

John [00:06:40]: Gold digger. I ain't saying she's a gold digger.

Nicole [00:06:43]: But also too like with Britney from.

John [00:06:45]: Love, she got her tits out on a reality TV show.

Nicole [00:06:52]: But yeah, I guess that kind of inspired it because we were talking about how she was blatantly like saying she's a gold digger kind of on the show. She was like, I want someone who makes a lot of money.

John [00:07:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:03]: And so. And then now she's dating some like musician guy. So she's fulfilling her prophecy. But yeah, like I think that there's so many different ways that we can go down here. I mean like even when we first started dating, a few people asked You. If I was a gold digger, which is offensive. But I also understand, like, where people are coming from. But at the same time, it's like. And guys do like to throw that around, too. They're like, she's just a gold digger. You know, whatever.

John [00:07:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:33]: So, yeah. I mean, where do we even begin?

John [00:07:38]: Yeah. I mean. Well, here. Well, with what you just said about people asking if you're a golder. I mean, the thing. Like, I was confident. No. And I'll tell you a couple reasons why. One, because I'm a stud. So, first of all.

Nicole [00:07:51]: But the confidence is on maximum today.

John [00:07:57]: But. But prime. But also, the big thing was that I don't tell you how much money I make. I didn't even tell you much about. You know, like, I didn't. I didn't brag it up. Right. You know, in fact, I downplayed it because I don't want. I didn't really want to be on blast on your podcast and stuff like that. Yeah. I don't really want you to pay too much attention of who. Of who I was, you know? And. Yeah, I'm serious.

Nicole [00:08:27]: I did not say that. But then you told me you were like, yeah, I was a little nervous about that, but I did it anyway. Like, there's a part of you that flirted with danger a little bit.

John [00:08:37]: I mean, for the. Yeah, I'm a little bit of danger. I definitely flirt with danger. But. But I'm not gonna say how much I make. Right. That's not. Or so many guys. Well, it's like, okay, fine.

Nicole [00:08:51]: Or like. Leo.

John [00:08:52]: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was just about to say is like, he's like, oh, I don't want a. A woman that after my. And he's like, have you seen my Rolex? You know, it's like, I have a lot of money and like. Like, you can't.

Nicole [00:09:03]: I think that guys like that pull out the stops when they feel like they can't get women normally. Because I do believe that initially he probably didn't want to talk about it, but when he realized he could do it to, like, instantly gain women's attention, that's when he was like. And then he even gained the attention from the guys. Right? Because he was like, you want to try on my Rolex? And stuff like that. Like, I think that that's when people. I agree with you. It's not smart, right? Because, like, people will take advantage of.

John [00:09:34]: You and people do it. Right. It's the same thing. Women do it, right? They're like, oh, I don't. I want a guy that values me for my mind. And, like. And. And, like, actually likes me as a person with their tits hanging out of their shirt. Right. And, like. Okay, yeah, but you can't lead with that. Like, you got to wear something more conservative if that's what you're looking for. It's the same. The guys do the same thing. Right. With the money, it's like, I want a girl that's not a gold digger. Yeah, but you're leading with your wallet. Like, you're showing off your. Your money. You're talking about your money. Right. It's the same thing. Right. Women do the same thing. The opposite side of it, but it's just because it's the easy thing because.

Nicole [00:10:15]: They'Re like, oh, well, it's easy to get attention that way.

John [00:10:18]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:10:18]: Yeah, but I can see that.

John [00:10:20]: But, yeah, so I wasn't concerned about it because I know I'm like, you know? Yeah, you don't know. You know, And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say anything, and there's no need. Right?

Nicole [00:10:30]: Yeah. Don't show up to the first date with your boobs out. Show up to the first date dressed as a witch and see if he still likes you after that.

John [00:10:36]: Yeah, but, yeah, I wasn't concerned about that. Plus, also, the. The other thing is, look, you can sense if there's genuine attraction.

Nicole [00:10:47]: Right?

John [00:10:47]: Right. So, I mean, I. I don't know how you describe that to. To someone to. For a guy to. To know that, but, I mean, I.

Nicole [00:10:55]: Feel like you can tell. And that's also too. Why, I guess, like, well, you never made me feel like you believed that. But when I heard other people had said it, I'm like, you guys really can't tell that, like, we're in love. Because I feel like when my parents came and met us for the first time, they were like, whoa, this is not the same. They could tell. Yeah, but like, with other. When other people would say that, I'd be like, you really can't tell that we, like, genuinely, really, really like each other. Like, because I feel like you can tell when, like, people are together for some sort of arrangement like that. Right. Like, it just doesn't seem like they actually really like each other. It seems like they're both using each other to make themselves look better in a way or some other sort of gain.

John [00:11:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:45]: If that makes sense.

John [00:11:46]: Yeah. Yeah. But. But I think also on. On the. You know, men, a lot of guys are too worried about gold diggers, and they don't even have any gold diggers.

Nicole [00:11:56]: Yeah, the one that has like $20, he's like, she's a gold digger. I'm like, she's not gonna take your $20.

John [00:12:02]: And guys are worried that if they, if they buy a girl dinner. Right. That she's gonna use them for meal ticket. Which I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It does, but it's like you have to have enough self esteem and confidence as a man to think like if a woman is going to use you for food, then she's a fool, she's a dummy because she's missing out on the better meal. You know what I mean? On the bigger thing. Right. If you don't have enough confidence yourself as a man that you don't think that you're better than a meal, that if she chooses the meal to take advantage of you and she's missing out on you, that she's an idiot then.

Nicole [00:12:40]: Or just try to bed a little better too before you go on a date. I'm not saying that that's foolproof, but I think if you tried to like establish what kind of per that person that woman is, you'd have a better understanding. Granted, I'm not saying talk for like a million years, but I think sometimes guys are just like, hey, let's go on a date. And like, I get that. But at the same time, if you're that concerned about like paying for someone's meal or something, then maybe you should like have a little bit of small talk to see what like, because I feel like a woman who's just trying to use you, she'd probably also be like, okay, let's go. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if she'd invest that much time because I think she'd rather just match with some other guy. If she just wants food and the guy who's like, let's immediately go on a date, she'll just go with that guy.

John [00:13:28]: Yeah, but, but I think also if you just, if that's your mindset, then.

Nicole [00:13:32]: Then you're gonna attract that too, potentially.

John [00:13:34]: Well, and if your mindse like I'm more valuable than a meal, like I'm not worried about it, then you're not gonna.

Nicole [00:13:41]: Yeah, well, I mean, like the people are worried about it. I feel like they might be attracting those sort of people or just assuming that everybody's like that and then people are off put by someone who's just assuming that all the time.

John [00:13:52]: Yeah, Yeah. I think it's more rare to to see gold diggers. I, I think it's a, it's a more rare thing. I don't think it's as prevalent as well.

Nicole [00:14:02]: Do you feel like there's more now than like let's say 10 years ago or what do you think about that?

John [00:14:11]: I don't, I don't, I don't think there's more now.

Nicole [00:14:14]: I mean, I don't, I haven't even really thought about it myself. I'm just curious. Your answer?

John [00:14:19]: Yeah, I, I don't, I really don't think there's, I think there's less now because I think more women are making their own money now.

Nicole [00:14:25]: I mean, I think I agree a.

John [00:14:26]: Lot of women are making more money than guys. More women are graduating college than, than men.

Nicole [00:14:31]: Well, I know we wanted to talk about this. So do you think men are becoming gold diggers? Maybe not gold diggers, but they are very comfortable.

John [00:14:46]: Yes. Men are becoming more gold diggers. I'll tell you why. Because a 5050 man is a gold digger.

Nicole [00:14:52]: Because he's not having to do 100% of it.

John [00:14:54]: He's a gold digger because he wants the goal of having his, his monetary situation. And he's, he's like, oh well if I have, if we're both together combined our money, then we've got, you know, so, so he's, he's not thinking I'm providing. He's thinking you're, you're gonna add to my. Right. So. But I would say that that's, that's equivalent for, for a man is if he's like, oh yeah, I'm not going to pay for, for that. We'll do 50 50.

Nicole [00:15:27]: Right.

John [00:15:27]: And that in a way that's, that is the equivalent of a gold digger for a man.

Nicole [00:15:32]: Because I would maybe even take it a step further that it's the 5050 and the men that want the women to do every single other thing in the house like take care of the kids. Like a woman works and she does everything else. I'd say that's the male gold digger.

John [00:15:48]: That's the male gold digger because he.

Nicole [00:15:50]: What is he doing? He's like, he's like the trophy wife. But a lot of them aren't even the trophy. You know what I mean? And a lot of trophy wives still do stuff around the house like their stay at home wives and things like that. But I mean some of them I guess are.

John [00:16:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:02]: Have other things.

John [00:16:04]: But, but who would take that deal? Right? Like.

Nicole [00:16:08]: Women do financially support men. Yeah, fully.

John [00:16:11]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:16:12]: So I Guess they're the like true, true ones. But I would say modern day men, gold diggers are the ones who want 50, 50 or maybe even the woman's putting in more and she's doing all the stuff with the kids and cooking dinner and cleaning the house.

John [00:16:26]: Yeah, well, I mean, I would say just, you know, you're a gold digger if you, one of your considerations in a romantic relationship is financial to a degree. There's various degrees of it, but in some sense of the word, you are a gold digger if finances has some part of your decision making process. And romantic relationships.

Nicole [00:16:51]: Yeah. I feel like some people would say if that's your sole motivating factor, if.

John [00:16:55]: It'S your primary one, then you're clearly in that. But it's a spectrum. It's a gold digging spectrum. Right. But, but it shouldn't be. You know, look, even, even when I tell guys that no woman wants a scrub. Right. Like if a woman's evaluating a man based on does he have a good job and is he, you know, successful, that's still not gold digging. Because what she's really evaluating or should be evaluating in that case, is this guy ambitious? Does he have drive, determination? Is he reliable and dependable? Right. Is he a go getter? Not. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the actual financial aspect of it. Will he be a person who is able to be a safety and security? To a degree, but you could have those attributes and not be successful yet. Right, right. But so I would say that, that, yeah, I agree.

Nicole [00:17:48]: I think it's a slippery slope because I feel like you do have to feel like as a, if you're dating as a woman that you're investing in a man that you know is financially smart. Like he doesn't have to make a certain amount, but he has to be financially smart.

John [00:18:08]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:08]: And give you the security from that. Like he has to pay his bills on time, he has to budget like, like whatever he has to do to be financially smart for where he's at. And then potentially like if you guys are working towards getting married, which you should be, and things like that, if that's where the relationship's heading like that. I feel like you do have to know, but I don't feel like you have to know like specifically what a man makes.

John [00:18:36]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:37]: Unless it's like, because we talked about this a little bit too. Unless it's like you guys are making like a big financial decision like a purchasing a home or a car.

John [00:18:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:49]: And especially if you're doing 50, 50 like, knowing how you're going to pay for that thing. Like, it's different with us where you're providing 100%.

John [00:18:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:59]: And whatnot. Because you would just be like, no, we can't afford that, or something like that. But if. If it's 50. 50.

John [00:19:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:07]: Then I do feel like it's fair to have a conversation and someone give, like, what they're able to do so that you know what kind of position you're in. I feel like it can't just be, like, a total mystery forever. I mean, we talked about privacy in the relationship. And, like, I don't think you have to show them what you purchase every single item or whatever. Like, every paycheck you get.

John [00:19:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:33]: But I think when it comes to, like, big financial decisions, if 50 50, you guys do need to know where each other's at and what you can reasonably afford and how this is going to look.

John [00:19:43]: But let's throw the 5050 out there because that's just ridiculous. Like, the. I'm not even entertaining 5050 anymore. That's just stupid. Like, we're just done with that because it just. It's not. It's not going to work. That's not like, okay, yeah. Even if a woman works a job right when you're married, that's okay. That's not. It's still not 50 50, right. It's like, if you're like, all right, well, you need to contribute 50% of the mortgage payment or whatever. Now, come on, like, be a man. Just grow up and be a man. Right? Like, that's why I wouldn't even. I'm not even going to consider that anymore.

Nicole [00:20:18]: The only hard part is that there is still a lot of people that are doing that that would want to be like, you and I, but they just can't.

John [00:20:27]: Okay, fine. Then this is what they do. Regardless of if a woman works or not, as a man, you are in charge of the finances of that household.

Nicole [00:20:36]: Okay, so you still wouldn't make that. Like, she could still come to talk to you, and you still make the decisions based on both your.

John [00:20:42]: You got the checkbook, you got the bank accounts. You handle all of that stuff. You pay the bills as the man. Right. You don't let her have to worry or stress about money because you handle all of that. And then, yeah, maybe she's still working and getting a paycheck, but it's going to a joint account that you are managing as the man. You're the money manager of the house. You got the financial. Right. Obviously, you should be the provider and be working towards that. But I can understand also in situations where you've got a couple, they don't have kids yet, they're setting up their goals to try and buy a house or whatever. And so she's working in contributing to help. I can get on board with that temporarily, but your long term plan needs to not be this, you know what I mean? And you as the man have to be the, the sole, even if you're not the sole provider, you have to be the sole financial planner and organizer and bill payer and the, the steward.

Nicole [00:21:37]: I think that's what women want too. And the only reason women are doing those roles is because they want to control the situation or they don't feel super confident that the man can do it. But there are ways that the man can make a woman feel more confident in those things. Because the thing is, she doesn't want to take care of those things. And even if she's acting like she does right now, it's because she's afraid. So all you have to do is prove to her that you can do it and she'll gladly give up that role.

John [00:22:09]: And it doesn't mean that a man should just make all the financial decisions without any input or anything. Instead it should be because what you, you know, I was just talking to coaching client of mine and I was like, look, you don't want to get into all these technical discussions about how much money you should put in your IRA and what kind of like, no, just when you're having a discussion with your wife, you don't have to go back and forth on pennies and stuff. Like you talk about what are your big goals financially. She's like, I really want to have a house. I want it to be five bedrooms, whatever. We're going to have three, you know, so then he's like, okay, well, you know, either we can do this or we can't do this. You know, we're going to save up for this. Here's the plan. It still doesn't have to even get down to the numbers of that as, as the man, because you don't need to, you know, that's not. You want to buy a car, you want, you know, want to save for college, for, for your kids. Like all those things, those things can happen as discussion that you're jointly talking about of what your ultimate goals are. But the man can still look at the finances and handle the. How is this, how is he going to make this happen? You know what I mean? And that's, that's the thing, and that's where, you know, we kind of got into the whole thing is as a man, you really should not be disclosing your income to a woman that you're dating. Like, just. I. So many guys I talk to have done this, and I'm like, why are you talking about this? This is not. It's not really her business at this, at this point. If you have.

Nicole [00:23:37]: Especially if you're not together, like, that's kind of a red flag. Oh, I feel like if a man or woman asks you how much you're making on dates, like, if you're not together, like, it's just concerning. I feel like either way, like, obviously if I was a guy and some woman was like, oh, yeah, so how much do you make? Like, I probably wouldn't go on a date with her again and vice versa, you know what I mean?

John [00:24:01]: I would be like, how much does it cost for a night? Like, for a night with you? Because you're. If you think I'm a prostitute, so you must be one, right? Like, because she's treating you like a prostitute. Right? So that's a little. I think it is. I think it is. If you're a woman asking a man how much he makes on a date.

Nicole [00:24:21]: I mean, I agree that it's not right. It's not good to do, but I think you're also being a little jump in the gun a little bit.

John [00:24:29]: Like, how is that different than prostitution? Like, what. What is your purpose there? If you're.

Nicole [00:24:33]: Well, I mean, I agree. I think that it's not a good purpose, but I don't think I'd call somebody that just outright. I just wouldn't go on a date with them again.

John [00:24:43]: Yeah, I mean, it seems like that person would be for sale if that's the. If they're asking.

Nicole [00:24:47]: Well, what about the men who don't care about that and they do actually, like gold diggers or they don't care that people are gold diggers and they just pay to have people around them.

John [00:24:56]: Look, that's, that's. I mean, if you want to do that, if you, if you want to make something a transaction, that's fine. Like, you, you have the, the ability to make something a transaction if you want to, but just understand that it is a transaction. That's. That's it.

Nicole [00:25:10]: But how do you think the people, like, the men are okay with that?

John [00:25:14]: Like, how are they okay with that?

Nicole [00:25:16]: Yeah. Like, what makes men fine with those sort of arrangements? I mean, I guess, besides that they get somebody that looks nice. This is my opinion of it. They get to have a wife that's hot and makes them look better.

John [00:25:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:32]: While also, I'm sure, having an open relationship because she just wants to benefit from the money. It's kind of like those situations where it's like a 30 year old and an 80 year old like you cannot tell me you're in love.

John [00:25:48]: Okay, do you want the real answer or the bullshit answer?

Nicole [00:25:52]: Both.

John [00:25:53]: Okay, so the bullshit answer is this, is that, look, a man with a lot of money, he doesn't have a lot of time, right. He, you know, the cost for him to date a woman is expensive in his time. And so if he wants to just pay in order to get some women because he wants to have the sexual satisfaction from that, then that's why he makes that choice. Not because he couldn't get a woman or that a woman wouldn't like him for anything than his money. It's just that it's just a more convenient way to deal with his life and, and the transaction and it's just inconvenient trying to date and, and you know, and all that stuff. Right? That's the answer. Okay? Because that's, it's not true. It's because you don't respect yourself. It's because you don't think you can get the woman. Is because your value of your, your money is, is more than your value of your, yourself. That's, that's what it is. Like, that's. There's no way around it. Like when guys are always. When guys are trying to like justify prostitution, why they pay for prostitute in general. I'm not talking about guys that one time paid a prostitute in Mexico or some stuff like that or whatever, you know, I'm talking about guys that are regularly.

Nicole [00:27:10]: Still not good.

John [00:27:12]: It's not good. It's not good. But I'm just saying like guys that regularly are paying for, for sex or paying sugar babies and stuff like that, it, whatever kind of bullshit excuse that they say, the reality is is that they don't have the respect for themselves. They don't believe that they could get women that they want.

Nicole [00:27:30]: Or do you think it's like a power thing?

John [00:27:32]: No.

Nicole [00:27:32]: You don't think so?

John [00:27:33]: I don't. I don't think so.

Nicole [00:27:34]: Well, because I heard about, I don't know how true it is, and I'm not going to go too into detail because it's pretty crazy, but the like super rich people in Dubai that will like pay insane amounts of money to like sugar babies basically, to like go over there and then they like poop on them or something. Like something like very degrading. That just seems like. And I'm not saying that all sugar daddies do that or whatever, but I think there is a line, right? Like there's a line of like guys like you said who just like maybe don't have the best luck with women and that's why they're doing it. And I'm sure there are definitely some guys like I just mentioned where it's like a power thing. They're like, how what can I make this person do with an amount of money? Which I don't think that's the majority. Majority.

John [00:28:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:26]: But there is that side of it too.

John [00:28:28]: That's an extreme case. But it's probably that they're just bored with life and it's like this is something interesting to do. Like I've done all the things and so now let me try pooping on someone.

Nicole [00:28:40]: Like so weird.

John [00:28:41]: I think that's where. When you get to that, that point. But it's, yeah, that's, it's getting to P. Diddy level. But yeah, but a majority of the guys that are pay saying, you know, the, the pay to play model that it is, it's coming from a lack of self confidence in them, in themselves. Because, and I know, because I, I coach guys, you know, we did pick up and stuff and it's like, look, for me, when I was out there, I don't. I definitely did not want a woman to think I had any kind of. I wanted to be purely on my skill.

Nicole [00:29:11]: Well, how did you like prevent that from happening?

John [00:29:14]: Because I'm not going to say anything.

Nicole [00:29:15]: About, I mean, I know but there might be clues. So how do you know that you weren't involved with someone like that?

John [00:29:22]: I mean, sure there's, there's some, some clues. But like that's what I'm saying is it's coming from my desire. And, and I know that you know that guys that are, that are, are utilizing the money or that are paying money. The biggest thing is they're like, oh, I can't. You know, they're, they're struggling to attract a woman.

Nicole [00:29:42]: But what about the ones that marry those women?

John [00:29:45]: Yeah, they did. They just want. Again, it comes from a desperation of not feeling like you could get that without the money. Like it's not.

Nicole [00:29:56]: But do you think they're happier than if they just didn't get married and they just had money and they were single? Because it's like, it seems to me like an open relationship a lot of the time anywhere where it's not like the guy's only with that woman.

John [00:30:09]: I mean, he could be.

Nicole [00:30:11]: She's. There's some situations benefiting from the money because that's what she cares about.

John [00:30:15]: Well, it's like, look, and some. Some of it's just ignorance of not understand. Understanding, right? Because I ask guys all the time. I'm coaching. I'm like, do you would. Do you want a woman that would let you have sex with her or that wants to have sex with you, right? And it's like, you know, there's various ways I've asked this question, but that's essentially the thing is, if you don't know the difference, then it does. Then the difference doesn't matter, right? Like, if you don't know the difference.

Nicole [00:30:47]: How do you not know the difference?

John [00:30:49]: Because a lot of guys don't know what genuine desire from a woman looks like because they never had it. So they don't know the difference. So for them to pay and buy a wife or buy a woman, it doesn't. It doesn't. To them, it's just what they're using. They don't know, Right? That's the thing.

Nicole [00:31:10]: It's just depressing.

John [00:31:11]: And. And look, if you did know the difference, right? Then you wouldn't need the money. Because if a woman genuinely desires you, then she's going to genuinely desire you with. Whether you have money or not. She's attracted to you, right? So that's what I'm saying. It's like, if you're buying, then why would you buy something that you don't need to pay for?

Nicole [00:31:33]: Well, so you think it still happens to the degree that it does today just because of that reason? Like, guys are still just. They don't want to do the work. They just want to pay if they have the money.

John [00:31:45]: Well, what sugar baby do you know? Okay, that it doesn't have a different guy on the side that she's attracted to that's not paying her. They all do, right? So you see, what I'm saying is, like, what I'm. The point I'm trying to make is that if a guy's like, okay, well, this woman is just a gold digger, and she's just looking for a guy with money.

Nicole [00:32:07]: Mm.

John [00:32:08]: She's looking for a guy with money to make an arrangement with, but she's looking for a guy that she's attracted to that she wants to actually have sex with. And, you know, so she's still looking for.

Nicole [00:32:18]: Basically those are open relationship. And it's more of like a deal where he gets to look like he's with this woman because he married her and they're together, appearing, and then she gets the money, but it's open. Like he could also go get with other people and she could go get with other people.

John [00:32:35]: Not always. But what I'm saying is that some guys are like, oh, you. The only way you can get a 10 is if you pay because they have so much money, so much opportunities. And I'm like, well, yeah, but no, that's not true, because she's obviously attracted to some. Some guy that she wouldn't need money from.

Nicole [00:32:50]: Every 10 is payable.

John [00:32:53]: Yeah, that. That's the. That's the assumption as well. But what I'm saying is that. That even if. Even if she is payable, that doesn't mean that she doesn't have a guy that she's attracted to that she wouldn't want money from. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:33:08]: Does that make sense? Do you think all women just want money?

John [00:33:10]: No, I'm saying that. That even if a woman is looking for a guy that has money, she also wants love. Would want a man that she wouldn't want money from as well, that she would be attracted to.

Nicole [00:33:25]: Okay, so what's the point of knowing this knowledge? Because don't go for gold diggers.

John [00:33:30]: No, because it goes back to the point of saying that when men who pay for their wives are women, they're.

Nicole [00:33:38]: Not really getting the woman in full because she wants love still.

John [00:33:42]: And that is not like if they're like, oh, well, these women are only available to buy. That's not true. Like, they're only available for you to buy. That's the only way you can get access to these women. But it doesn't mean that. That these women are only gold diggers, does it? I'm kind of. It's a long road to get to here.

Nicole [00:34:02]: But yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying, because I think the reason that women fall into this too is they get tired of looking for love.

John [00:34:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:11]: And so they just want to be financially secure.

John [00:34:15]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:15]: But like you said, they still never stop looking for love. Like, they still want that, right? Yeah, but they get to a point where they've kind of given up on finding the guy who they love and is also, like, emotionally mature and financially secure and whatever, you know, and so they just go for the financially secure.

John [00:34:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:36]: And they, you know, deal with the rest of it by either having someone else that they like.

John [00:34:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:43]: Or they just forego that part because they'd rather be safe.

John [00:34:48]: Yeah, sure, I think that that happens.

Nicole [00:34:50]: But it just seems like a lonely, miserable way to live in both senses. Like, it makes me sad for those guys that think that that's the only way that they can be with somebody. And it makes me sad for women that they've given up and they just want to be financially secure and.

John [00:35:06]: But that's why money should be taken out of the equation on the relationship. It's just simple. The man pays for. For things. He's the one that financially supports the family, the household.

Nicole [00:35:16]: I mean, it definitely makes it a lot easier.

John [00:35:17]: You don't need to talk about numbers. Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:19]: Like, it makes it a lot easier. Doesn't also feel like tit for tat, right? Like, oh, I bought dinner last night, so you need to buy dinner this night. You know what I mean? Like, it takes away all of that. And like you said, if you can't do a hundred percent, the guy providing, then combine your money and still allow him to manage it, and that will help the situation.

John [00:35:43]: Yeah, yeah. And you should be working towards that. Like. Like I said that. But. But it can be done also. That's a. You know, I'm tired of the. The bullshit excuses. Like, you can downsize, you can move somewhere else. You can, you know, you can do other things to be able to survive rather than, you know, as a man, you can take a second job. Like, there's other things that you can do. Right.

Nicole [00:36:05]: So what do you think's worse? Male gold diggers or female gold diggers?

John [00:36:10]: I mean, what do I think is worse?

Nicole [00:36:14]: Yeah. Which one's worse? I'm just trying to throw in all of the. The chaos. I mean, you're throwing in chaos in other ways, but.

John [00:36:25]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like. Well, here's the other thing. I mean, to kind of answer this question, right? Because back in the day, right? And I never used this at all, but. But there were some guys I knew that used this site called Seeking Arrangement. Right, okay. And what they would do is they would use it to pick up women, right? And these weren't guys that were using it to pay to pick up women, even though women are on there to get paid. Right. What they did was they used it as, like, the man. The man's best dating app, right? Because on most dating apps, there's. There's few attractive women, right? And there's tons of guys. And so women are getting all kinds of messages and Matches, right. On this particular thing, it's reversed, right? There's a few successful men and tons of attractive women that are messaging all these men because there's, it's a scarcity, right? It's, it's the ratios, right? That's how it, it always works. And so what they were doing, right, because they had some skill, they had some game, they understood what they were doing is they would match up with these women, they would go out with these women, they wouldn't pay for, they wouldn't give them money, they wouldn't do the arrangement, they would just get the women attracted to them and then they would date these women.

Nicole [00:37:42]: Well, so that would work. Because aren't women who are on there know at least somewhat like what it is, like you just said?

John [00:37:49]: Yeah, no, they do. But the thing is, is that like I just said, every woman, even if she is trying to use her looks for money, still is attracted to like, somebody, right?

Nicole [00:38:02]: Yeah.

John [00:38:03]: And they don't want to like someone that is necessarily paying them, Right. They may be making that choice in order to, to make some money. But what I'm saying is that. So the reason why I'm saying that in, in reference to, like, who's worse, men or women, gold diggers is that it's not even that some guys are like, they just classify a woman as a gold digger, but it's not a simple classification, right? A woman may be trading her looks or her sexuality for money. I frown upon that. I don't think that's a good idea. I think that makes you a prostitute in every. No matter how you're doing it, if you're trading your looks or your sexuality for money, you're a prostitute, right? So I don't think it's good. But what I'm saying is that those women are not all bad in the sense that they may be doing something that is questionable of character and moral integrity. But those women could also still be relationship material. They could still be a wife. They could still be for the right guy that they're attracted to that, right? Even, even a woman that's in a desperate situation, she's like, look, you know what? I'm just sick of this. I'm sick of dating. I'm just going to get a sugar daddy, right? Like, if the right guy happens to come along even after she's made that decision and he's not a sugar, and he's not going to be a sugar daddy, she might be like, oh, well, actually maybe I don't need to be a sugar dad or need to be a sugar baby. Right. And she's going to date the guy and they could have a relationship and be happily married. And even though she had some gold digging tendenc bees, right. That doesn't make her complete human garbage trash. Like don't touch her. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:39:46]: Like, yeah, I mean, I feel like.

John [00:39:47]: I'm actually making a defense for like defending the Gold diggers.

Nicole [00:39:50]: No, no. I feel like a lot of guys would say the opposite of what you just said. But I think it may, as a woman, it makes a lot of sense, right? That women do want love deep down. And if she is going after money, I feel like it's because she's given up on the love part. But like you said, if the love part came along, she would give it up. Like unless she's just really money focused and like wants to live a certain lifestyle and she cares about that more. Which I do feel like is kind of what that Britney girl on Love is Blind was like. She wants to live a certain lifestyle and I'm not saying that she doesn't want love too, but I think that she would choose the lifestyle over love. And I do. There are women that are like that. But I think a majority of women, like you said, would choose love over, you know, whatever financial situation they would have like to go looking for.

John [00:40:45]: Yeah. And I guess I'm saying that like the reason why I'm not so harsh on Gold diggers, right, for women is because, look, you can't be as a man, you really can't be. And I'll tell you why. Because 90% of men that are watching this podcast, if they were given the opportunities that attractive women were in order to trade their body or their sexuality for money, they would do it.

Nicole [00:41:07]: Oh, I've already said that.

John [00:41:09]: Right. How many guys would be like if. How many guys, if they could be on Only Fans and could make $20,000 a month, a hundred thousand dollars a month on Only Fans, how many guys will be showing every part of their whatever anatomy that they could doing any kind of disgusting sick thing. A lot of guys. Right? Right. You know, how many guys, if they could be male prostitutes and women, I'm talking women, not other guy, you know, but because, but because they could do that. But that. That women would pay them to have sex. How many guys would do it? Right? A lot. Right. How many guys, if they could, you know, get women to pay for meals for them and all they have to do is go on a date with them, even if they're not super attracted to them or if they could be the sugar baby. Right.

Nicole [00:41:55]: Well, that's what the, the gold digger guys are doing now. Right? They're the sugar babies.

John [00:41:59]: A lot of guys would do it. So that's why, like, as a really can't harshly judge gold diggers. It just, it's because it's hypocrisy. Right. Again, I'm not saying that gold digging is good or right, but I'm just saying that there, you, you, you have to look at it from that, that lens because so many men are being too harsh on women that are just doing what they would do in, in the exact same situation if it were flipped. Right. It doesn't make it wrong.

Nicole [00:42:23]: They're mad that they can't do it. Like, they can't take the easy way because, like, it is easier to just be a woman and be scantily clad and get paid money. Like, I think a lot of, like what you said is definitely true. And a lot of their hate for them is because they can't do that easily.

John [00:42:40]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:41]: Like, maybe it's not conscious.

John [00:42:43]: No, it's not conscious.

Nicole [00:42:44]: But yeah, that is what's fueling a lot of it.

John [00:42:47]: Right. But you do have to have respect as a man too then, for women that, that have those opportunities and choose not to take them.

Nicole [00:42:53]: Right.

John [00:42:53]: Because that does take some moral character, Right. To do that when a lot of guys that would judge a woman do not have the same moral character because they would take that opportunity in a heartbeat.

Nicole [00:43:05]: Yeah, right. I agree.

John [00:43:06]: That's. That's the thing about it.

Nicole [00:43:07]: So I'm glad you said it because I've been saying that, but they probably listen to you a little bit more and I'm sure they'll be mad about it. But it is true.

John [00:43:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:15]: Like, you're 1,000% true that a lot, a lot of guys would take every opportunity they hate on Onlyfans Girls. But I know that they'd be doing that if the tables were turned. Like, and I'm not condoning that either.

John [00:43:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:29]: But you also can't be a hypocrite. Like, I get that you guys don't have the ability to go and do that, but if they did, right. They would take it like, and it would be normalized.

John [00:43:40]: Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's the thing about it. That's why it's like. But, but I, I think in that the, the male equivalent of a gold digger maybe is, is a cheapskate. Maybe that's really what it is, it's like being a cheap skate.

Nicole [00:43:51]: Well, I'm thinking about the ones where like, like the women are taking care of them and like, I mean, maybe they don't get an allowance, but I don't know, maybe they do. I don't know.

John [00:44:02]: Yeah, yeah, but it, but it's like, I don't know, the psychology is, is a little bit different. That's why I'm saying like a cheapskate is the equivalent of like of the same.

Nicole [00:44:11]: Guys can be escorts and stuff though, too.

John [00:44:14]: Well, yeah, but, but it's.

Nicole [00:44:15]: Is that not the same?

John [00:44:16]: No, because it's, it is. What it isn't. It's like, yeah, that's the one to one equivalent. But because of the opportunity difference and the way that things are valued. Right. Like a woman has. Any attractive woman has opportunity to make money from her sexuality. Any attractive woman. Right. So any attractive guy does not. Right. Maybe extremely attractive guy. Certain situations. Right. Could. But any guy has the ability to be a cheapskate. Right. Any guy can, can choose to be like, oh, we're going to split the bill 50. 50. So that's why I say that that's more of the, of the equivalent is because if you're talking about gold digging from a test of moral character, the same test applies to being a cheapskate for men. Right. Because it's the same temptation because the woman's like, I could get more money for free and the guy's like, I could save more money. Right.

Nicole [00:45:09]: Okay, I get where you're coming from. That makes sense.

John [00:45:12]: But both are at this. At the sacrifice of the relationship or making the relationship transactional that I make that equivalent.

Nicole [00:45:18]: Yeah. I mean, has to be transactional. Right. Like there's no other way. You can't be a gold digger and not be transactional.

John [00:45:26]: Yeah, exactly. So, but, but guys, but the other thing I think that's important to understand is that guys confuse smart women who are feminine and want a masculine man who provides with being a gold digger.

Nicole [00:45:41]: Right.

John [00:45:42]: Commonly. And that is not the same thing. Right.

Nicole [00:45:45]: It's like lazy or you know, something like, like she just doesn't want to work. Like they're actually shooting themselves in the foot. Like, I mean, we've talked about it a lot, but I do think men are confused by what they want. Especially like what you just said. You can't want a feminine woman and then she goes into the office. Like some women say that they can be masculine at work and.

John [00:46:08]: Sure.

Nicole [00:46:08]: And feminine at home.

John [00:46:09]: Yeah. And I believe it.

Nicole [00:46:10]: And I'm not saying that they can't do that. But the true way to have a feminine woman 100% of the time is, like you said, to provide. The man provides 100%. So she can just be feminine.

John [00:46:23]: Yeah. And even if she goes into the workplace, it's taking the financial responsibility off her shoulders. Right, right.

Nicole [00:46:29]: That's because that will help her be feminine at home.

John [00:46:31]: Exactly. Yeah. So. But, but yeah, I think guys screw this up because they confuse that and it's like, no, you gotta be smart about this because you do want a woman. Like, if a woman says a man should pay for, for dates, she's not wrong. And she's not a gold digger. Right. She, she, you know, she might be saying it because she's a gold digger, but that does not make her a go. You know, that's like, you want that one because what do you want? You want a feminine woman or a feminist woman? Because the feminist woman is going to say it's 50, 50, I don't need a man to pay for me. Right. So you can't have it both ways. Right. That's like, you know, you're sure that the feminist woman isn't a gold digger? Okay, maybe she's one in disguise, I don't know. But, but the feminine woman is going to demand that a guy pays for. She's not going to demand it. She's going to only respect men that are willing to provide.

Nicole [00:47:28]: Right. Well, and there'll be other things that she wants that will prove to you that she's feminine rather than a gold digger. Like, she'll be feminine in other ways as well too. She'll. She might have standards and be firm in those or boundaries.

John [00:47:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:41]: But also be a pleasant, like, soft, feminine energy. Like it. Because a gold digger, like, they're not really feminine. They're like masculine in a way because they're looking to get money. Right. Like, it's not a business, but it is to them. Right. If it's a true gold digger.

John [00:48:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:03]: Her objective is money and she'll forego whatever to get the money. And that is kind of like a. It's not a business, but that's her business, you know, I mean, that's what she's working towards. And so she will come off a little masculine because she's trying to get that.

John [00:48:19]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:19]: Like, she might try to pretend to be feminine, but you'll still know, like, though I do feel like there are clues. Like, guys act like there's no clues.

John [00:48:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:29]: And like you said, they might use like, oh, well, she expected me to pay on the first date as a clue, but that's not really a clue. Right, but you should know, like, if you think about it, you should be able to tell somebody's character.

John [00:48:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:41]: A little bit better than they're acting like you can.

John [00:48:44]: Well, look, if someone really is a gold digger, if a woman really is a gold digger. Right. She's already made the choice that she's willing to trade to sacrifice her moral integrity. Right. Or her values for money. She's for sale. So you think that's just going to apply in one area of her life? It's going to apply in every area of her life. Right. She'll always make that choice. Once someone's made that choice, they've committed to that choice. That's the choice they're going to make. So you can very easily tell that by looking at what other things that they're, they're trading for money. I mean, I think that's true because.

Nicole [00:49:14]: They way they're money focused.

John [00:49:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:16]: And it's pretty obvious.

John [00:49:19]: Yeah, but, but that's also why I, you know, I boldly said that it's that, you know. Well, I mean, if a woman is asking, if a woman is willing to trade that for money, then, then it is a form of prostitution. Right? So. Because that's. What else would you call it? I mean, that's what it is.

Nicole [00:49:43]: Okay, well, going back to the Britney and the musician guy thing.

John [00:49:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:47]: Like, why do you think especially celebrity people are okay with this? Because, like, it's not like that guy hasn't dated other celebrities supposedly or whatever. Like. Yeah, but why is it? My question is like, why does it still happen?

John [00:50:06]: My question is why, if you're shopping, why would you buy that one? Can you not do better than that if you're paying? Like, I mean, I don't know, maybe just me, but you know, she's very not, you know.

Nicole [00:50:23]: Well, it's not about her. But I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

John [00:50:26]: Like, it's not why, like, if you're.

Nicole [00:50:28]: You know, like, why does it still happen?

John [00:50:31]: Look, I don't mind insulting someone who put a price tag on themselves. That's just like comparing products. Like, if you're gonna put it like, you know, don't compare people, but if they make themselves into a product, then I'll compare them all day. I'll be like, yeah, this one costs this amount of money and it, and it is this quality and this one is this quality.

Nicole [00:50:47]: That's. Yeah, but you already put a price Tag on yourself.

John [00:50:49]: Yeah, but she already put a price tag on herself. That's all I'm saying. I'm not gonna be mean, digger.

Nicole [00:50:53]: She's, she's outright said that. But at the same time, I guess what I'm trying to understand is like, some of these celebrity people that really don't have a hard time getting women, but they still seem like they get into these sort of situations.

John [00:51:08]: Like, well, look, I think it's a, it's a. I think, I think a lot of people assume that a lot of celebrities don't have a hard time getting women, right? Because I think a lot of, a lot of celebrities, right, it may be true that they don't, they have, they don't have a hard time with women initially being attracted to them, but it doesn't mean they know how to talk to a woman. It doesn't mean that they have any kind of game. It doesn't mean they can keep a woman attracted or her interest level, right? Because, hey, when you get a new car, it's new, it smells new, it looks new, but it, that lasts for about a month and then it's not a new car anymore, right? It doesn't have that same feeling. And hey, a lot of women, they might date some celebrity and be like, oh, this guy's hot. He's, he's, you know, this, you know, whatever, famous and whatever after a month.

Nicole [00:52:04]: Or so, so they're just releasing each other.

John [00:52:06]: What I'm saying is that, that some of these guys, I think that they pay for women because that's how you keep them, right? You know, because that's, because that, you know, because they're, they're running through. They're not necessarily. Well, even, even when you look at like the scandals, right? It's like, you know, all the celebrity scandals, they're going on with the, with the MeToo movement, when that happened and all that, that stuff, it was like, some of these guys are like, why the hell would this guy, like, you know, what was the guy that was on the Today show or talk show, you know, the, the newscaster, Matt Lauer? Yeah, that's. He's, he's high status. He's an attractive looking guy, right? I mean, maybe not the most, but he's, he's a fairly attractive looking guy and he's making a lot of money. He's high status. Shouldn't he not be crawling with women, right?

Nicole [00:52:58]: Like, so wasn't he married?

John [00:53:00]: I don't even know. But, but even still, like, does he have to, like, use Intimidation factors or drugs or whatever he did, or like to. Like to coerce women to be with him. He shouldn't have to, right? There's. There's a lot of guys like this, right?

Nicole [00:53:17]: Well, it's a red flag.

John [00:53:19]: Mike Tyson got accused before, you know, and stuff. Whatever. The truth is behind that. But what I'm saying is that there's a lot of guys that you're like, why would this guy need to drug a woman? It doesn't seem like it, but they do, because they must, right? That's what I'm saying is, like, we make this assumption that just because someone is a celebrity or attractive, that they have no problem with their dating life or relationships or getting what they want. But that's. It's not the case.

Nicole [00:53:46]: But I think if you resort to those things, there is something wrong with you if you're drugging people and doing stuff like that. I mean, like, paying for people is also not great. But like, drugging people is a whole different level because at least people are consenting. Like you said, it's a transaction with money, but they're not.

John [00:54:03]: But my point is if that if these guys that you're like, they should have no problem with women are drugging people, then it's no surprise that they're paying people, right? That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's. That's what they're gonna guess. So, like, we just make this assumption that, you know, that it's just easy street for. And it's not necessarily. Again, like, yeah, if you're a famous actor, musician, rock star, whatever, yeah, you're gonna have a lot more opportunities with women, but it doesn't mean that you know how to capitalize on them. It doesn't mean that you can sust those relationships. It doesn't. You know, I don't know.

Nicole [00:54:38]: So, yeah, I mean, that makes sense, but it's still just odd to me. Like, it's really.

John [00:54:47]: It is odd.

Nicole [00:54:48]: It's better to do that than to just be alone and try.

John [00:54:53]: I. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, so. But. But you see those arrangements. But. But you see it all the time. Because also the other thing that you see. Right. Again, to. Not to. But you see guys that are celebrity heartthrobs, right? And they. And they were. And then they date some woman that you're like, why would you date this woman? Right. Or they're married to some. And you're like, it just doesn't make any sense. But it's but it does make sense because. Yeah. Even though, like, like, obviously they, that's what they're able to get.

Nicole [00:55:32]: Wait, so you think they're just, that's what they're able to get? That they don't, like, just love her for who she is?

John [00:55:38]: I mean, I'm not saying that's not the case in all the cases, but, but, but for the most part, yeah, that's true. Because why were they even like. Yeah, you, in order to fall in love with someone, you have to date them first. Right. So why would you not be dating the most attractive woman that you could if you're, if you could.

Nicole [00:55:56]: I mean, a lot of people talk about attractive women. They're, that is about as far as they go is because they rely so heavily on their looks that there isn't really anything deeper to them, which is a lot of times why people don't get into relationships with women like that. And I'm not saying all attractive women are like that, but that's also a factor too, is that. Yeah. Like, maybe there's not enough depth for a whole rest of your lifetime with that person because that becomes the thing. Right. Like, would a man rather marry a woman for how she looks and being hot and have to maintain that? Which a lot of women, I mean, men would say yes, they would date women just because they look hot.

John [00:56:41]: Right.

Nicole [00:56:42]: Or marry a woman just because she looks hot versus someone you actually love who might not be the hottest person you could get.

John [00:56:49]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:56:50]: So what is it like? Which one is it like? Is that why gold diggers sometimes end up with these guys? Because they care more about their appearance and having a hot wife than actually having a conversation? Because maybe a lot of. Yeah, they're 80 years old, married to people that could be their grandchildren.

John [00:57:09]: Yeah. But, yeah, not everyone's looking for the depth of relationship.

Nicole [00:57:13]: But why wouldn't you, why would you get married without the depth? Depth? If it's just a transaction? That's the only thing I could think.

John [00:57:20]: That'S 80 of marriages. Right. So the, the depth.

Nicole [00:57:24]: I don't think it's 80. I think 80 maybe don't have the depth. But 80 is not just.

John [00:57:29]: No, not just. Yeah, I'm just saying. Yeah, they just don't have the depth. Right.

Nicole [00:57:33]: It's like, but it's not like just marrying the hottest person you could find.

John [00:57:37]: No, no. I, I, But I mean, people are generally going to do the best that they can in that area. Right. So it's going to be roughly within a ballpark. Right. It's not going to be. Well, I'm saying when you see stuff that's way out of the ballpark, then.

Nicole [00:57:48]: You'Re like, okay, well I think the difference is that men would do that and that women aren't looking to like get the hottest man. Because if he had everything else but he wasn't the hottest man, like, she would pick that guy.

John [00:58:02]: But I feel like he's going to be in a ballpark though.

Nicole [00:58:04]: So men would pick the hottest woman, some as long as she's okay, versus like a woman who treats him like a king but isn't the hottest woman.

John [00:58:15]: Yeah. And men make that choice sometimes and then they regret that choice because it's a bad choice.

Nicole [00:58:19]: Right. So I think men should listen up. That you should go for someone that you actually have a good connection with, even if she's not the hottest person, you should get, like, could get.

John [00:58:28]: Yeah, yeah. And sometimes women make the choice of, of picking the man that has the most money and instead of.

Nicole [00:58:35]: Right. And I think that's also not smart.

John [00:58:37]: And they regret that choice as well.

Nicole [00:58:38]: Right. Because the thing is that, that's. But that's why it doesn't work for both of the people. Because deep down women want love and men want love. Like, they act like, yeah, whatever, that people will say that love's not enough. But the thing is, money's not enough. The thing is looks aren't enough. Love is the only thing that is enough. And like, obviously, yes, you need to have other aspects to have a really good successful relationship.

John [00:59:01]: Right?

Nicole [00:59:02]: But the outside stuff, money can come and go. Looks, they go. They can also come and go too. But mostly they go.

John [00:59:09]: Even if they don't. Like, like you become habituated to all of those things. Right. That's why, that's why like, what was her name on the Love is Blind? The, the, the plastic boobs?

Nicole [00:59:19]: Britney.

John [00:59:19]: Britney. Okay. Like she's dumb. I'll tell you why she's dumb. Because what she doesn't really. She wants this lifestyle so bad. Right. But again, it's like the new car. Once you're like fabulously wealthy and you're like, you know, eating at what's the Chinese laundry or what? You know, like every. Isn't that that place? Or what's the. I don't know where, where noon ate when there was co. Locked.

Nicole [00:59:43]: Just say no boo whatever.

John [00:59:45]: No boo whatever. You know, eat. But it, it, it becomes commonplace. It doesn't have the same feel that it, like eventually that becomes your life and that becomes the, the. This mansion becomes the hole that you live in now. Right. It's like everything becomes normal. It doesn't. You're not always excited about that, that, that stuff. Right. And so, so to trade the, the thing that is going to sustain you and that you are always excited about for the thing that temporarily is going to make you happy is stupid. That's why it's dumb. Right. Because it doesn't matter whether it's looks or it's lifestyle and money. Right. You're going to become habituated.

Nicole [01:00:28]: Sustainable.

John [01:00:28]: Yeah. You're just going to become habituated to. It's not going to have the, the impressive amount. You know, what it was before. Just like a new car.

Nicole [01:00:35]: Right?

John [01:00:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:37]: Well, did we hit all of the gold digger topics?

John [01:00:41]: I think so. I think so. I don't know if there's any other gold digging to do.

Nicole [01:00:47]: Have respect for yourself, period.

John [01:00:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:51]: And don't go for the temporary stuff.

John [01:00:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:53]: Money, looks, whatever.

John [01:00:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:56]: Status even.

John [01:00:58]: Yeah, yeah. Don't bring finances into the relationship. If you're a guy, don't be stupid and like volunteer how much money you make. Obviously you get married, you need to declare your debts and stuff because you're combining debts and like, you know, you got to be disclosure in that area or you know, a brief conversation about some, you know, financial things and make sure you're on the right. Right. Same page and stuff. But like, like when you bring money into it, you're just, you're. You're on the border of making a transactional. And then don't worry so much about gold diggers. Like first of all, you got to have enough gold to dig. Like half the guys are worried about. Gold diggers don't even have anything to, to dig for. Right. It's like no woman is trying to like scrape your. Like, you know, we don't want your Honda Accord. Yeah. Like, it just doesn't, it's just like, yeah, please, let's not. And, and then, and then, and then, like I said, and then, you know, you can't judge them too harshly because would you do the same thing and yeah.

Nicole [01:01:57]: But then say they wouldn't. But I don't believe them.

John [01:01:59]: I don't believe it either. Right. You know, I mean some for sure, but. But yeah, but, but it's just, it's a waste of energy trying to like if you date a woman for any significant amount of time, you will know if she's a gold digger. That's not gonna, you know, you're gonna.

Nicole [01:02:13]: Figure out you won't have lost all your Gold in the meantime.

John [01:02:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:17]: If you're responsible, like, come on.

John [01:02:20]: Yeah. And if you want to, like, attract a person who you're sure is not, then don't lead with the like.

Nicole [01:02:26]: Yeah, yeah, don't pull a leo.

John [01:02:28]: It's a tangling lure. Right. But it's the same thing. Like, you complain about women that are like, why do men always stare at my tits and they're wearing a blouse that is see through or whatever. And you're like, well, they made a conscious choice to do that and you get it. But you're doing the same stupid damn thing when you complain about women being after money. And then you're like, leading with your money money. So.

Nicole [01:02:49]: Right. It's just taking the easy way.

John [01:02:51]: Bragging about on your date, so.

Nicole [01:02:54]: That's true.

John [01:02:56]: All right, well, now.

Nicole [01:03:00]: Yeah, your part.

John [01:03:02]: So we did break our streak a little bit here.

Nicole [01:03:05]: Yeah.

John [01:03:06]: But it wasn't. I. I would say it's not that. Not that bad. But it was good.

Nicole [01:03:12]: It was good.

John [01:03:13]: Yeah, it's always good. But what. What came up? I think. I mean, it was actually like two weeks ago. Right. So. Yeah, because I jinxed us. But. But I think that it was in regards to. I don't even know what it was. What triggered the entire thing.

Nicole [01:03:34]: I don't know. I had said something to you and then you told me to drop it or something, but I didn't drop it. But I can't remember what it was.

John [01:03:43]: Yeah, yeah, it was something about. I mean, what it came down to, though, was I don't even. I don't even remember the exact details of the situation. But what it came down to was, which I think is what we need to really figure out was the, you know, the. I would say that the insecurity that you have around like, like having to be perfect of, like, of not being loved. Well, you know, and that being something that would. Would cause you to defend that, like, because if you're. If you're wrong or you do something wrong, then you're not worthy of love. And. But we had a great discussion about it. About how. What. What always sounds bad. But I will say it, which is that when I told you that you're a wretch, that you're wretched, but you're loved anyway. And even though that sounds very bad, it's actually very loving because. Because I think that was that, like, I didn't realize that was a fundamental life view worldview that I have that you didn't have. And you had a different WorldView, which was one that was like, you know, someone has to be worthy to be loved. And. And so. But. But I. I think that that that worldview of, hey, you're. We're all wretched. We're all a piece of crap. We all like our, like, whatever we're doing, we fall so short of perfection that we're all in the same pile of trash, you know, but we're loved anyway, and we don't deserve love, but the love is a gift that we can be thankful for. It's a freeing worldview. And I. I feel like you were in a. A slavery of, you know, because it was. Because it. Because it was. Because it's a slavery when you feel like you have to earn love, right, or you're, you know, and you could lose your worthiness of love. Right. And so, you know, it's interesting because perhaps my background in it came from, you know, a Christian theological perspective where that is like, the message of grace is essentially, that is. Is that, hey, you know, you. You're not worthy of this. You're a sinner, but God loves you anyway. And I think that whether you believe in Christianity or not, that's a very beneficial worldview to have. Because. Because in reality, like, we. We all are. We all do bad things. We. We all fall short of our own. Our own expectations and our own standards. And, you know, if you have the worldview that. That is going to diminish from you, you're going to defend the hell out of everything that you do because it is literally going to take love from you. And if you have the worldview of that, no, we're all just in the same boat. Like, I'm not better than anyone, and no one's better than me because we all just, like, are human. So then we don't have to hide our shame and our guilt anymore, because we know that, like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect how we're loved because we're not loved for the things that we do. We're loved for who we are, and that doesn't change. And I think that's, you know, that's something that I didn't realize. Like, we had talked about it before a little bit in different ways about perfectionism and stuff like that, but I didn't realize how deeply rooted that belief was in you and how much that affected you and that. I think until we got to the really deep to that, that, that. That you would always struggle with it because it is. It's like it's slavery. And I. I don't think anyone could help it if you really believe that. Of course, like, you know, every time that you do something wrong or perceived to be wrong, you're going to feel like, hey, I'm. I'm less worthy of love. And so your choice is to either just beat yourself up and feel bad about yourself or to like deny it, defend it, try and be like, no, that didn't happen. That's not how it is. Like I didn't do something wrong and it makes sense. So I don't know. That was my, my summary of it. I don't remember what even started it.

Nicole [01:07:44]: But yeah, I can't remember the exact details either. But yeah, I think, I mean, it was that, but it was also like that the love would be taken away because it just is really hard to comprehend even now, still a little bit that you aren't gonna love me less. Yeah, like, I feel like it's very rare to even get to be with somebody that loves you for all of the things, like sees you at all of the points which you have and you do still love me. And it's just, I don't know the first time I've like really felt that. So it's also like hard to believe. And then it's also part of me is like, well, is it because I just tried to be my best and I maintain like, like, you know, whatever. Like so you do. I do get like stuck in that. And that is why I like defend myself. And I do take it personally too. And I'm like, oh, I'm a bad person. And I was trying so hard and you know, like, that's hard as someone that like works on themselves to feel like, yeah, you have these parts that are still bad, but you're always gonna have parts that are bad. So it was, it was helpful. Like, it was not great that I fell back into the defending myself cycle. That upset you at first when we had the first like altercation. But like you said, it did lead to like a beneficial place eventually. And it didn't take eight hours like it normally does. We did better. Ish. It still took a while, but.

John [01:09:18]: And what I tell you the, the day after about even though you're embarrassed about like, like I don't know, freaking out and throwing a tantrum kind of like, what did I tell you?

Nicole [01:09:28]: Yeah, but I told you that I think I like get all this built up anger because I still can't bring myself to say mean things to you. Cuz I used to say mean things.

John [01:09:37]: Yeah, and I get that.

Nicole [01:09:38]: And I think it's all the energy.

John [01:09:40]: But what did I tell you? What did I tell you?

Nicole [01:09:42]: I can't remember.

John [01:09:43]: I love you more. More because of it, not less.

Nicole [01:09:48]: Which is still hard to believe, but I do believe you. But it's hard to comprehend because I.

John [01:09:53]: Understand you better too. Right. It's like I know where all of the defensiveness and stuff comes from, which gives me much more empathy and actually makes me love you even more for it. Right. Which is the truth, because I get it. Because it is a struggle. It's a hard thing.

Nicole [01:10:12]: Well, you know, it is a struggle because, like, earlier this week, I had to tell you the same sort of thing that you told me that night, but in a different way.

John [01:10:24]: Yeah, we're all humans. None of us are worthy of love, but we have it anyway. And that's a beautiful thing, not a bad thing.

Nicole [01:10:32]: Right. It's like we're all meant to be tortured because we made a mistake, because we'd all be tortured because everybody's made a mistake.

John [01:10:39]: The most perfect human who, like, does virtually nothing wrong, and the most vile, you know, decrepit murderer. They're not that far apart. Not. Not when you compare them to the scale of perfection that we sometimes believe that we need in order to be loved. Right. And. And the problem is that we, We. We make those things seem so far apart, but they're not really that far apart. They're like. Yeah. And. And a lot of us are just. Our life circumstances determine whether we would be that murderer or. Or not. Not our character, our life circumstances did. You know. And so, you know.

Nicole [01:11:15]: Well, I think you still have a choice.

John [01:11:16]: You do, but what I'm saying is that some of the stupid choices that we've made that we've all made that were bad choices that were not moral choices, we made those choices with things that were not as consequential because of the environment that we're in. But had we been in the environment that this murderer would have been in, we might have been the murderer. We might do those same exact choice that we made, the same lack of judgment and lack of character that we demonstrated in a different environment. It might have not looked like lying on your report card or lying on your job application, or it might look like killing someone. Like it. You know, that's what.

Nicole [01:11:52]: So you think nurture over nature?

John [01:11:56]: I. I don't think that without going.

Nicole [01:11:58]: Into a whole other.

John [01:11:59]: It's not as. As black and white as that, but I'm just saying it's like it's just some Things to consider. It's like. Like.

Nicole [01:12:05]: No, I get what you're saying.

John [01:12:06]: Think that we're so much different. We're not. Like, you know, and. And so. But. But that's why it's like, you know.

Nicole [01:12:13]: Love is a good turn. Like, you know, maybe not the murderer, but someone who's done maybe something that's really bad can get up to the same place where the person who, you know is doing better now, like, they can heal. And the person who seems like the most perfect person could also go down and become a murderer. You know, like. Like you said, it's not very much in between. And you can change your mindset to help you understand that we're not all that different, and that will actually help you be better.

John [01:12:51]: Yeah. And we don't question unconditional love when it comes to pets. I mean, like I was telling you that night, I was like, if your dog does something bad, do you love the dog less? If it does more good things, you love the dog more. No, you love the dog the same, unconditionally, no matter what the dog does. But we treat humans differently for some reason, or we treat ourselves. Ourselves differently or think that we are unworthy or undeserving of love because we did something bad or wrong. And we don't apply that to a dog. We understand it intrinsically. We all understand it. Right. We just don't apply it to ourselves. And sometimes we don't apply it to other people. But if you have a pet, you. You understand it, so that's true. You know, so. Yeah. All right.

Nicole [01:13:32]: There we go.

John [01:13:33]: That's it. We'll see you next week.

Nicole [01:13:38]: Leave a review or follow us.

John [01:13:39]: Oh, yeah, I forgot about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it is.

Nicole [01:13:44]: So better than Perfect podcast gmail.com. send us.

John [01:13:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:13:49]: Questions. Come on the show and share.

John [01:13:52]: Share this with someone that could share.

Nicole [01:13:54]: It with a gold digger that, you know. No, don't.

John [01:14:00]: Yeah, yeah. Just watch their. See how they react to the show, and then you'll know.

Nicole [01:14:07]: There you go.

John [01:14:07]: Watch it on your date. All right. See you next time. Through every fault we find our way.