John: Getting married and being in a romantic relationship is more than just friendship. I'm not saying that friendship is not important; it is another level to your relationship, but if that's all you have, you're missing the romantic part that also helps with all of these other things. Right, and how do you get the romantic part? What's essential to have it? Don't read smut novels, no. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. Alright, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. Not the dramatic, I'm just practicing to be a newscaster.

Nicole: Oh, okay. At first, I was like...

John: Uh oh, I've got to work on my accent, though, you know.

Nicole: Yeah, your British accent. You want to keep doing an Irish accent. What is it? What do you know about the Irish?

John: It's like, even if you start in a British accent, you say "Irish" in an Irish accent. I just like to say that word in the Irish accent, you know.

Nicole: I know, yeah. You do a good Irish accent.

John: Yeah, and the British one, when you like, get it down.

Nicole: When it has to like click in my head so I can be like, "What do you know about the arish?" No, I don't know. It takes you a while. There are so many different variations, but there is, yeah. So, the new Love is Blind we were watching, I think we're actually behind most people, but I think we're about to catch up because we have like two more episodes left.

John: Well, it doesn't matter because by the time this airs, everyone will have watched it all.

Nicole: That's very true, yeah. And our topic today is inspired by Love is Blind.

John: Yeah, this one has kind of been boring, though, a little bit. This one, we've literally been watching it and have multiple times been like, "What are they actually saying?"

Nicole: Yeah, like there's so much fluff thrown in there that I don't even know what they're actually talking about.

John: Yeah, some of the edits are just weird. It's like, I don't know, and are they telling them to add extra stuff when they're explaining stuff because it's so confusing?

Nicole: It's confusing. It's just, yeah, it's a weird batch of... I don't know, it just none of it really seems genuine, besides, okay, we still don't know the names very well, but I think it's, who's the couple that prays together?

John: Um, I don't know any of the names. So, I think his name's Tyler, and then her name, I think, starts with an A.

Nicole: Ashley?

John: Okay, yeah, that sounds okay. I think it's Tyler and Ashley. They're the only ones that seem genuine to me. Everyone else is just saying stuff.

Nicole: Yeah, that they don't even know what they're saying.

John: Yeah, they're just saying stuff, yeah.

Nicole: Yeah, and they're the only couple that we think's actually going to make it.

John: Yeah, it's like everyone's just trying to say stuff to sound good, right? That's like, yeah. Well, the weird, that's the problem that happens with all these sorts of shows, right? Like, okay, the first one, they're genuinely there to find love properly, you know, 'cause it's the first one, and they're trying it out, but all the ones after that, these people just want to be famous. They just want to be like, low, bottom of the barrel celebrity type of people, and that they can just get brand deals, and that's their job now. Like, let's be real.

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, that's a lot. And we even found out with that guy last season, what was his name?

John: I know, Trevor. He like acted like such a nice guy, and then all his skeletons came out of his closet. It's like, come on.

Nicole: Yeah, like now you're popular for being a villain, and it probably does the opposite. And we think that there's a few guys on here that are doing probably something similar.

John: Yeah, yeah, I think good chance, yeah. But so, I guess we'll see. But yeah, the... Yeah, what's your topic? Let's jump into it.

Nicole: So, again, it was inspired by some of the episodes we've been watching, specifically the one where I think the guy's name is Tim, and I think the girl's name is Alex.

John: Okay, I think.

Nicole: Basically, the one with the guy who was like, "I have these boundaries, and if you cross them, oh yeah, you know, that's not going to be good." And then, obviously, she crossed the boundary, and there's an episode of them like having this conversation about what happened without actually telling us. And just watching her kind of made me think about how women try to control the relationship to the extreme.

John: MH.

Nicole: Yeah, and how they don't even realize how off-putting that is, how like they wouldn't like the same thing back to them. It just really kind of put into perspective the extreme that women should really avoid getting to. And again, we'll talk more about this in the whole episode. I get why they get to that level. I understand, but that doesn't mean that it's the right way to be.

John: Yeah.

Nicole: So, I don't know, really where to dive in first. Maybe I'll start by talking about what she was doing.

John: Right, so yeah.

Nicole: She constantly criticized this guy to the point where I'm like, she does not like him. Like, to the point where, yeah, he was like blowing it off, and like you said, he did it in the right way. Like, he wasn't aggressive or anything towards her about it. He was just like, "My dog, you know," or like, "I like this hat," and she would just be like, "Don't ever say that again," or like, "Uh, don't wear that," or "Your fashion's horrible," or something. And like, even if she's going to try to come on and say like, "I was joking," the way that she presented it was not joking, and it was also presented in a way of like, "My opinion should be the only one that matters." Right, like even if you like this hat, I think it's ugly, so you shouldn't get this hat. And the way other ways that she was acting, so nonchalant with him, like she's not even really interested in him, but supposedly she loves this man. Or she'll be like, "Oh well, we'll see what happens." Like, I understand in a way because I think she's trying to protect herself, and she's trying to come off not when she's picking on him, but with the "we'll see" thing, that she's not as invested so she doesn't get her heartbroken. But we all know that that doesn't really work.

John: Right.

Nicole: And they are in a weird position because maybe she's trying to shit-test him a little bit because she didn't get to do that in the pods because they're not really around each other. But at the same time, there's a fine line, and there's a way to go about it where you can be maybe shit-testing a guy but not be so controlling or like off-putting with it. Like, every interaction that they had, he was way nicer than I would have been about it.

John: Yeah, because it was very abrasive.

Nicole: It was very like, my way.

Nicole: Or the highway, like sort of thing. But like you said, and I know well when we were talking about it, you said this, and I know you'll probably bring it up as you should, that it's not even my way or the highway, right? It's just like, it's my way, or I'm going to abuse you, right? Or like, make this a horrible situation and turn it into an argument and all these other things. So when I was watching that, it just made me realize when women can really take being independent and controlling to this extreme level, that's off-putting. Because that man is a masculine man that she's with, and he has boundaries, which is so good. You can tell he has self-respect for himself. And to be honest, the whole time watching their conversation, I was like, good for him, you know? I'm not like, I'm a girl's girl, but I'm also whoever's right, I'm going to side with whoever's right, and she's not right. Like, if anything, she brought this on herself. And I think she somewhat realized that when he had such strong boundaries and self-respect for himself.

John: Yeah, but like, he did the right thing by standing up for himself and being like, no, you crossed this boundary. I told you about this boundary. He did lay it out for her. He was like, look, I'm very chill, but if you cross this line with me, there's no going back. And he did the right thing, and he told her. I don't think it was manipulative of him to be like, hey, I came in here, and this was going to be our last conversation because I believed him because he backed it up with everything he said.

Nicole: Yeah, so it's like, just watching her act that way, right? I was like, a lot of women probably act this way, and I know especially today with the masculine women, they act this way, sure.

John: Yeah, so I figured it'd be a good episode because it was off-putting, even as a woman, to watch. Because I'm like, I don't even think I'd be your friend because I'd feel like if I didn't agree with you, you would treat me poorly or differently, or you know, have that you're either with me or against me mentality. Which, even what was the, I think the other girl's name is Monica, yeah, the one that you feel like is the same way. And she is, to some degree, but I feel like I called that one early. I feel like Alex, though, was like, we blatantly saw it because they got into the altercation.

Nicole: Well, yeah, and it's a more common thing. It's like there's this fierce independence. It's like trying to prove that you're a big shot, right? Like a lot of women have this mindset today, and it only proves that you're immature, right? Because if you have to prove that you're a big shot, that, I always said, I've said this many times, if you're like, nobody can tell me what to do, that's the most childish, right? Like, yeah, no one can tell you what to do, so you don't need to say it. You just, you know, you just have a boundary. Like when you're saying it, when you're asserting that, and then stomping on other people, and that's what it was, you know? Because, again, like you said, if the interaction were reversed, it just would, it would seem extremely abusive and inappropriate, right? If a man, like a woman tries on a hat, and a man's like, oh, that's, you're going to wear that hat? Seriously, that's ugly. Like, or whatever, like, don't even put that hat on, right? He'd be so hated.

Nicole: Yeah, it would be just, what, how, why would you treat your woman like that, you know? But, you know, but it's become more commonplace for women to do that and to act that way. And I think a lot of it too is, you know, and I was saying with this girl in particular, a lot of women have not ever been told no, right? And they haven't encountered a lot of men are weak today, right? We talk about this all the time. A lot of men are feminine, and so they don't have boundaries. They don't, just like in the, in the Love is Blind, the other guy, if I had names, but, you know, the bigger guy with the orange hair, with the red hair, gosh, his name, but he, the Monica is, is the girl that he's with, but he's just like, just lets her say stuff to him, and just, he just apologizing and acting so, he doesn't have any kind of, a lot of men are like that. And so a lot of women grow up, or their experience with men is that they haven't encountered a real man. And so they're just used to getting their way all the time. They're used to being the one in charge, being in control, right? And if a guy doesn't like it, they're just going to, they're just going to hit him with emotional manipulation, you know, in order to, like, so okay, if you're not doing what I want you to do, then I'm going to be upset at you, and I'm going to treat you this way. I'm going to give you the cold shoulder. I'm going to, you know, be even more [___] to you, whatever it is, right? And that's, yeah, that, that's the problem. That's, it's a huge, and I think that starts in childhood, right? Because a lot of people don't have emotionally mature parents, so they learn typically how to deal with their emotions in the wrong ways that their parents do, without even realizing it, right? Like, it's very hard for a child to become emotionally intelligent with emotionally unintelligent parents, right?

John: Yeah, like they would have to figure it out on their own, right? And I'm not saying that this justifies their behavior, but I do think a lot of people, in general, learn how to deal with conflict and problems like that in childhood, and they just never reflect on it. And especially women, like, I get where it's confusing, and I get where they get to this point because we are told, you know, be independent, do things for yourself, which, in some degree, is the right thing to tell women, but they take it too far. Like, this is essentially, this is like toxic masculinity, like they say, right? Like, this is the female version. It's like women who say whatever they want, and they don't apologize, they don't care whose feelings they hurt, they tell people what they want, and if they don't get it, then they manipulate, or they stonewall, or they blow up, and then they don't, they don't know how to, they don't have actual boundaries, right? Just trying to control the entire situation and be like, I don't need you, while needing somebody, right? Like, it's just the extreme version. Like, this is, to me, like toxic, I wouldn't even say femininity because it's not feminine, it's just toxic. It's just like, I don't agree there's such a thing as toxic masculinity. There's just toxic, and that's what it is because it looks the same, right? It's the exact same behavior.

John: That's true, you know, it's, and that's what it is, but yeah, toxic behavior. Yeah, and even, I think she had said, and that she was like, I get what I want, or something like that.

John: One of the responses was just fun. A lot of it too is just, well, like you were saying, it's not even "my way or the highway" because "my way or the highway" is fine. As a man, especially as a leader, you do have to be "my way or the highway" because that is actually setting a boundary. Not to misinterpret this, but the reason why I'm saying not even "my way or the highway" is because a lot of women in these situations are saying, "It's going to be my way, and you're going to suffer the consequences if not." It's fine to have a boundary and to say, "Look, I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who does this kind of thing. If you choose to do this thing, that's your choice, but I'm just not for that." Setting a boundary is totally fine, but when your response is, "I'm going to punish you if you don't do what I want," then that is controlling.

Nicole: Right, and that's why we did a whole episode talking about men being either dominant or controlling and what the difference is between that. We said it was whether you're secure or insecure. It's the same thing here. Insecurity is what causes you to try and control a person because you have consequences if they don't do what you want. Whereas if you're secure and you say what you want, and then you're prepared if they are not going to do that or they're not going to compromise, that you're willing to walk away because that's not what you want. That's a totally different and healthy approach to something. You can have whatever kind of requirement that you want. You're a human being, so you can choose, even if you're like, "I require people to address me as the King of England." It's pretty ridiculous, but you have the right to do that if you want to. You just don't have the right to harass people that choose not to do it. You can be like, "Okay, well, if you don't call me the King of England, then I just don't want to be talking to people who don't do that." It's ridiculous, it's crazy, but it's fine. It's well within your rights. But to say, "If you don't call me the King of England, then I'm going to treat you horribly," that's not okay.

John: Yeah, I mean, I think too, what actually more women than just her on this season, and in general, women in general struggle with is that when you get into a relationship, it's not all about you. And it's not even all about the man when he is leading. It's like a relationship; you do take each other into consideration. And that's why her behavior to me would be completely off-putting because even if you're in a friendship with a woman like that, you don't feel like you're in a friendship. Even friendship has compromise. Like, if you really care about people, there's compromise, and you want them in your life, and you want to co-exist with them. You're not just like, "Okay, we're going to do whatever I want," or the other person's like, "Okay, we're just going to do whatever I want." You try to balance the scales, you try to even it out, you try to figure out the compromise. And I think that a lot of women in this episode aren't doing that. They're like, "This is how I live, and this is how it's going to be." And that is fine if you're single, but it's not fine in a relationship. There has to be consideration for the other person, and you can't act hyper-independent and still have consideration for the other person, no matter what you say. Because if you did value that person high enough, then you would naturally act that way.

Nicole: Yeah, and you have to choose to be led if you want to have that dynamic in the relationship of having a healthy relationship as a woman. Instead of saying, "This is what it has to be, and I have to control this situation," even if a man is not as competent, and you're like, "Okay, well, I'm more competent, so I have to take care of this or take over these situations," the correct response is not to do that. It's to say, "Well, I'm not going to be with a man that I don't trust, that I wouldn't put my full faith in." Exactly, if I have to critique him, then that's not the guy. As opposed to thinking that you're going to shape him by critiquing him in some way or get him to conform to your way of doing things. That's not how anybody responds, even if a man acted that way towards a woman. She's not going to respond that way. You know what I mean? Like, if he's critical of something that she's doing or she's wearing, that's not going to make her feel good.

John: Yeah, I think almost that some women think, "I'm going to act like a man," right? Because equality and all this stuff, and they're like, "So I'm just going to say how it is. I'm going to say how it's got to be. I'm not going to pay attention to what other people want. I'm just going to do what I want to do, and if they don't like it, that's tough." And they think that's acting like a man, but that's not acting like a man; that's acting like a boy. That's acting like a dictator. Women are emulating boys instead of men.

Nicole: Well, there's a lot of boys instead of men out there today because that's not it. And even what you said about it's not all about you. If you're in the right relationship, the man will make it all about you as a woman. But it's different when someone tries to make it all about herself. You see what I'm saying? As a man, I want to make it all about you. But if you tell me it's all about me, then it's not the same. Women feel the same way. If a man tells her what to do, she's going to be defiant and be like, "No." So, if someone's like, "It's all about me," anybody's natural instinct is going to be like, "I don't really want to be around you." Honestly, no one's going to want to be around someone that's like, "It's all about me." And that was definitely how she was coming across. And you're right; they're emulating this version.

John: In their head, they think there's a right way to be right, and it's not wrong. This is what I think women are really getting messed up. There's a difference between being controlling and having self-respect. They think that acting like, "This is what I want, this is what I'm going to get," is having self-respect. In some ways, that is, but they're doing it the wrong way. They're doing it the abrasive, aggressive wrong way.

Nicole: Yeah, like how the guy, Tim, I think is his name, how he reacted was the right way.

John: Exactly. It's kind. It's like, "I have these standards. I'm not going to accept less than these standards, and if these standards aren't there, I will walk away. I'll have a boundary. I don't have to treat you poorly, I don't have to yell at you, I don't have to do any of these things, but I will walk away." And I think women don't understand the difference between having self-respect and pushing it too far and being abrasive and controlling and all about them.

Nicole: Exactly. It's like, if you have ice cream cones, right? Okay, to get because you have to have one of my analogies, right? And you're like, "I want your ice cream cone too. I want both ice cream cones." And it's like the response is, "No, this one's mine, but you can eat yours if you want. No thanks for asking, but I'm not going to give it to you." I would say, "I want your ice cream cones," not even asking.

John: That's what I'm saying. It's just like if you were dealing with a child. Because the person's acting like a child who is being greedy or selfish or making it all about them, and you're not responding in a harsh way. Which again, like you're saying, that's what he was doing it correct because he was not getting flustered by it. He was just treating her like she was a child that he was just blowing it off, not addressing that thing, not making a big deal of it. You can just calmly, if someone demands your ice cream cone, maybe this is a better way to put it, you don't have to go on a diatribe about how it's yours and how they're mean and how you're not giving it to them. You just have to say, "No, thank you." Like you just have to not do because you have that power.

Nicole: Right, and it's when you're trying to exert that power over people to show them that you have that power, that's when you come across as childish, that's when you come across as controlling, that's when you're overbearing. And where you know, because as a woman, yes, I understand that women a lot of times want to show that they have some degree of independence, that they're not just going to be mistreated or whatnot. Like you said, having self-respect, but the way that you show that you have self-respect is that you just, you have a choice in everything. Right, unless someone's physically abusing you or has a gun against your head or is forcing you to do something, you have a choice. And so you don't have to pontificate about it. All you have to do is just, "Yeah, I'm not going to do that," or you know, you can make that choice.

John: Right, and so that's the thing about it. You have the power. It's not a question of having the power, so displaying that overtly, that's where you get into trouble, or trying to then take that power over other people in order to show that you have your own sovereignty. It's just as simple to say no. You can use the word no. I think that the controlling behavior stems from a fear of being controlled. It's a fear, and so they're hyperdoing it because they're afraid of someone else doing it to them. And like you said, I think if you have confidence in yourself and you have self-respect, which they go hand in hand because you can't have self-respect if you don't have confidence in yourself.

Nicole: Yeah, so if you have those things, like you said, if someone comes up to you and says something crazy or your boyfriend does something crazy, you don't have to respond by yelling at him or calling him names. You could just be like, "Look, I don't want to be with somebody who acts this way." Like, that is what it is. And I think women have been programmed for a very long time to not want to be controlled, so they're afraid of someone controlling them. And that's why they hate the word submitting, they hate hearing a man leading them, they hate these things. And I'm saying this from a woman who was more masculine before I met you and definitely more controlling and all of the things that we're talking about here. I was never like to that lady's level because that's just like a really immature sort of all about me thing that she's in right now. But I can see where women get caught up in all this because we've been told for so long, like, don't let a man control you or like, watch out, like he could do this to you or like, you know, you don't know what this. We're plugged with so much fear, right, of like a man doing the wrong things because there have been plenty of men that have done the wrong things to women.

John: Yeah, and so I understand the fear, but at the same time, just like this woman's doing, Alex to Tim, she is ruining her chances with an actual good guy, an actual guy that will lead her the right way, who does have respect for himself, who will take care of her if she lets go of all this other stuff that she has messed up inside of her, and she doesn't know how to let it go. And like, luckily with you, I saw by your actions that I trusted you. I trust you to lead my life, our life together, and you also showed me that you care about me to the point where I don't feel like you're just making decisions and you're not taking me into consideration. So there's not that need to butt in. Like, I'm not saying that I never have moments where I want to try to control the situation. Like, that's something I feel like as a woman, we're just, we have to work towards. It's always going to be because even if you read the "Empowered Wife" book by Laura Doyle, she talks about that even the woman who came up with all of these ways to help you stop controlling your husband still tries to control her husband sometimes. So it's like, I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I'm not saying that women have to be perfect, but there is a huge difference between how controlling this woman is trying to be of this man on "Love is Blind" and how that is actually very problematic. And like I said, to the point where I definitely wouldn't date her if I was a man, but I wouldn't even maybe be her friend because of how she's acting towards him. And knowing that that's a capability and she would treat me as a friend that.

John: Way like it's very controlling even in that sense. You can't be controlling in one aspect and not in the other, right? So, it's again, it's like they are doing it in this toxic, hyper-escalated sort of way with the control like that. And it does stem from fear. She is very afraid of being controlled, and that's why she is very much trying to control every single thing in her life. And well, it comes from a lack of understanding of power dynamics, right? So, I'll give you a couple of examples, right? And some men understand this. I think a lot of men still don't even understand this, but I had a call. I put together this Mastermind group of really successful business people, guys that I know. One guy is running a hundred million dollar business, right? And there was a guy on there that was a very new guy. He had done nothing. He was a young kid, hadn't accomplished much in his life at this point, but I had invited him to it, and he didn't know the other people that were on this call. And he didn't realize that every single person there was worth at least $10 million or more, right? And so, when we got on the call, he talked to the one guy who was probably the most famous person on there, and he just started giving him all kinds of advice about how he should do things and just lecturing him on life. And the guy, this extremely successful guy, he didn't react at all. He was extremely polite and said, "Oh, thank you. I appreciate that." And he just listened to the guy. He wasn't going to do what he said because the guy was telling him what to do, and he said, "Yeah, I'm not going to do that, but I do see, I do appreciate you giving me that advice, and I do see your viewpoint on that." And so, he just completely... And afterwards, I talked to the kid, and I was like, "Do you realize who you were just talking to and what you were just saying to him?" And he was like, "Oh, he didn't seem like he was that." And the whole point of it is like this guy was the most powerful person in this room by far, most successful. He didn't find any need to assert himself because that's what power does. Someone who is actually powerful, to actually be powerful is to yield.

Nicole: Well, I actually wrote down while you were talking a similar thing. It's the concept of power that messes everybody up, right? Because this woman's trying to control this man to get him to do what she wants, right? And sometimes men do the same to women. They try to get them to do what they want, right? And power is not getting somebody to do what you want. It's not forcing somebody to do what you want. It's not whatever way you express it to get what you want. Actual power, when you have actual power, right, it's walking away. It's things that you can do, right, not what you can force other people to do. And that is walking away or like in what you were talking about, listening but being like, "I'm not going to do that, but I appreciate..." Like, you can still not do what someone is telling you to do, right, and be respectful about it, right? Or you can, if you have to walk away from somebody, like Tim in the episode, right? He'd be like, "Look, like I care about you, yeah, but you crossed my boundary, and this is probably the last time we're going to talk to each other." Like, that is power. And what you can do is power. That's the only way you can have power is in what you can do, right?

John: Yeah, and influence, right? If you can influence people, then you have power. But how do you influence people? By what you do.

Nicole: Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. That's why it all boils down to what you do. And that's why you have to have self-respect. You have to have confidence because it's about what you do. And if you're not confident in yourself or what you feel like you're capable of, right, then you're going to have fear, and you're going to try to control people.

John: Exactly. That's why I tell men to tell a woman what you want and what you don't like. And that's all. Not what to do. What you want and what you don't like. If she's not doing what you want and she's doing what you don't like, you're gone. And that's your influence, is because.

John: If you're valuable enough, a person doesn't want to do what you don't want, and they don't want to do what you don't like. They want to respect the person they care about and they don't want to hurt them. That's why, when she was talking to him, I'm like, "You don't even care about this man, really. Not really." Like, people think they do, but they don't because if you did, him saying, "Hey, this hurt my feelings," or, "I don't like when you do this," you would care about that. You would care about the person you care about saying those things. Unless it was something absolutely crazy, which I doubt it would be, right? You're going to do that because you care about the person because that's what a relationship is. It's not just, "I'm going to do whatever I want, and you're going to do whatever you want. We live together."

Nicole: That's where people are at, and that's why it doesn't work. Yeah, that's why it doesn't work at all. That's why it's two people living together, being roommates, and that's why this seems normal to everybody, but it's not normal. And that's what we were talking about last week. That was one of the topics because we were talking about how people oppose all this stuff that we say. They're like, "Oh, bachelorette and bachelor parties, or girls' night out and guys' night out, or sharing your location, and why do you want to be in a relationship to restrict someone?" Like, "I'm gonna do whatever I want, and she should be able to do whatever she wants." It's like, no, that's not how it works. A relationship doesn't work like that. There are rules, there are boundaries, there are things that you do and you do not do for each other. And it has to come from that; otherwise, what is the point? What are you actually doing? You're just hooking up sometimes; you're just living together. What is the actual relationship part? Just you know someone; you just care about someone?

John: That's not it. That's not what a relationship is. It is two becoming one, which means that you can't just be independent anymore. You can't just be like, "I'm going to go over here and do this, and I'm going to go over here and do this." If you're two becoming one in a relationship, then now you're one entity. So, you now have one set of, "This is what we're going to do, and this is how we're going to do it." You can't just... And how do you be one? You have to take each other into consideration. It's not just one person driving the blob of you two as one blob.

Nicole: Well, you do have to have a leader, right? That's different, though, than just one person doing all the things and the other person following. Like, even as a leader, sure, you can say the other person's a follower, but that's not how it actually is. The person's leading and taking the other person into consideration. Sure, the other person is following your lead, right? But at the same time, men can't be also so like, "I'm going to do whatever I want because I'm the leader." You have to feel like you're being taken into consideration, and women are afraid that men will just do whatever they want, and they have to follow suit, or men will just tell women what they have to do, and women just have to obey. Like, that's the extreme, again, the extreme versions that these people are afraid of, but that's not the reality. And like you said, if you care about the person, then you take them into consideration. It's not a second thought. It's not like, "Oh, I want to do this. Wait, let me think of what..." No, you already know, like, "Hey, if I want to do this, then so-and-so might feel this way about it, and I should think about that." It's built in because it's a difference between ownership and stewardship. Ownership is, "This is mine. I can do whatever I want with it." Stewardship is, "This is mine to take care of." And there's a huge difference between those two. And that's why it's like, yeah, if you're a steward of something, like you're a steward of the relationship, then it's not just you can do whatever you want. It's you are the one who is making the decisions and setting the direction, but you're doing it in regards to the person, you know, to the best interest of the entity of the relationship, not to your own best interest. That should be your own best interest, is the interest of the relationship.

John: Exactly. But people do get it mixed up. Like, women are afraid of a dictatorship, and men are afraid of being walked all over by women or disrespected. And so, it's all sort of messed up. But I think too, we talked about this a little bit as well at home, but I think people are messing themselves up too with a lot of this. That they think they have a good marriage or good romantic relationship as long as they're friends. And friendship is important, right, in a relationship, but if that's all you have...

Nicole: It's not a romantic relationship. Even if you're married, if you've just gotten to the point where you're friends and you occasionally maybe do something with each other, that's not a romantic relationship. Like, it involves so much more than just friendship. Because to be honest, and I bring this up because maybe these people on Love is Blind can be friends. Oh yeah, but a lot of the couples don't have the romantic part. They don't take each other into consideration. Like the couple, Garrett and... what's her name? I don't know the name, Garrett and... Taylor, maybe? They're so similar. No, that's Hannah and... I'm talking about the two that are like scientists, like physicists and the other one. They come off as friends to me. They're missing the romantic part, and a lot of couples are like that. Right, and sure, they could live together, and they could probably learn to coexist, like a lot of couples do, right? But you're missing the romantic part. And I mentioned that because, like Alex and Tim, the couple we were initially talking about, if you really love this man, right, you don't care if he wears the stupidest hat in the world. If that makes him happy, you care about him being happy. Or if he keeps saying "dog" or whatever, like, sure, even if that's like, okay, he keeps saying it, and you're a little flustered by it, like, you love him so much that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And like, people think, though, that if they care about somebody or they have a relationship, like a friendship, right, that is the foundation, but they lost the other part, that they're in the best relationship ever.

John: Like, getting married and being in a romantic relationship is more than just friendship. I'm not saying that friendship is not important; it is because it is another level to your relationship that will make it a deeper connection and deeper intimacy, even with the friendship. But if that's all you have, right...

John: You're missing the romantic part that also helps with all of these other things, right? And how do you get the romantic part? What's essential to have it?

Nicole: Don't read smut novels. No, you have to have the polarity. You have to have the masculine and feminine. That's why if you don't have that, you're going to be friends. That's why, like, yeah, at first, it might start off as very sexually ignited, but it will fizzle out without the polarity. You have to have that.

John: In fact, in the situation that you described, there's not really a masculine feminine. They're kind of just like, you know, I get the progressive thing is to be like equality, but that's it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It works for friendships, but it doesn't work for relationships. There is no equality. You're different, monotoned.

Nicole: Yeah, like, you're like the same, and you just do the same things. Yeah, 'cause I mean, look at the other couple, Ramses and Marissa. They're like on an equality-based thing, right? And the last we saw is they're arguing over something, you know, they and something that she can't change and that he doesn't like. And so, yeah. And I think, even obviously, like the masculine and the feminine is our big thing here, yeah, in on the podcast. But I think in this specific area, on top of the masculine and feminine, yeah, it's respect. Like, that woman does not respect that man, but he respects himself enough to walk away. And so, like, he's losing respect for her, right? Because he's, she's disrespecting him. It's like this whole thing, but respect is the key. Because also, if she respected him, right, she wouldn't pick on him so much.

John: Right, like even if she doesn't agree, she wouldn't pick on him. So what should a man do? Maybe we should talk about that, right? If he's in that situation.

Nicole: Yeah, when a man, I mean, exactly what Tim did, right? Be like, I think he gave her ample amount of time for her to turn it around. Like I said, he was not the things that she was saying that most people would be like, hey, that's not okay. Yeah, he, you know, gave her, I think, the benefit of the doubt and like joked it off. But then when she crossed the line, she crossed the line. And granted, maybe instead of blowing it off that many times, he should have been like, hey, you're kind of like bordering on this is disrespectful. Like, he maybe should have given her a little bit of a warning, 'cause maybe she didn't take it seriously because he was kind of laughing it off. But I think he did the exact right thing that men should do. And honestly, if you're a man and you would never even watch that show, you should at least watch that episode. I don't, I can't remember which one it is, maybe like five or six. He demonstrated masculinity pretty well. He handled it very well. And to be honest, like even a woman, if she's disrespected by the man that she's with, or to like some degree, she needs to be like, look, like this is my boundary, which you have to tell them the boundary before they cross it. Which that guy did. Tim did say, hey, I'm not easy to anger, but if you anger me, that's a big problem because I'm very, you know, calm, cool, and collected. So if I reach this level, we have a bigger problem. So he laid it out there, and you do have to lay out your boundary. You can't just be like, oh well, you cross my boundary, and the person be like, you never said anything. You be like, oh well, you know, it's best not to say the word boundary when you lay out a boundary. It's just best to just say what he, no, he didn't. I'm just saying in general, 'cause sometimes people are like, this is my boundary, and it's like now it sounds manipulative. Well, you have to know what an actual boundary is, right? And it has to be extreme enough. Well, like you said, I mean, people can make up dumb ones if they really want, but most people have legitimate ones where it's like, if you disrespect me or like if it gets to this level, I'm going to walk away from this situation. And you do have to, you have to explain it. You don't have to be like, this is a boundary. You could be just like I said, you know, if you are disrespectful towards me, then we will not continue the conversation. And then you have to walk away. Like, you have to uphold it. But I think he handled it very well. And again, even in the discussion with her, he was respectful. He stood on his boundary, you know, he stood on the respect for himself.

John: Yeah, and like you said, I think we did a pretty good job of explaining how to have respect for yourself and how to do that in the proper way that you don't have to be overbearing or like, yeah, try to act controlling or powerful. You just say, hey, like this happened, and I don't tolerate that behavior, so we will not be continuing to be together. And then the person is free to make their choice. But you can't also as a woman try to influence his decision or vice versa, you know, like you have to actually stand on that. And I would say, 'cause you know, I thought about this a little bit too, that the, Tim, right? What was his name?

Nicole: Yeah.

John: So, in some ways, well, okay, so it depends on where you are in an interaction with the woman on how you respond, right? And so I think Tim's reactions, right, to her, those were the proper reactions for someone that you're not in a very deep relationship with, yeah, where you're just like, you just met someone, you're on a first date, you're at a bar, whatever it is, you know, it's, yeah, because it doesn't matter. Like, you can say something to me, right? I don't care. Like, you're going to insult me, whatever, you're going to act like a jerk, you can act like a jerk. That's like, it's, that doesn't matter to me, right? It's like, I'm, I'm like, you can try and tell me something, but I'm going to say what I'm going to say, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. It doesn't matter. Like, I'm not, I'm not reacting to it. I'm not getting upset by that, right? When, but I think perhaps the mistake that he made, which it's a really weird thing because of the circumstance, they're like fiancés, right? And they just barely met, right? Uh, but, and I think he kind of saw this, and that's why, but, but it didn't matter because it, at the end, it ended up resulting the same. But if you're a man in a relationship, if you're, if there's any kind of relationship and the more deeper it is, then when that stuff happens, you can't just let it slide. You don't want to react and get upset, and you don't want to lose your cool or to be phased by it, where it like affects you, and you're being emotional about it, but you want to address it right then and there, so that it stops immediately. Because in his approach, it's interesting 'cause his approach was one where he was just playing it super cool, right? It didn't matter. Like, he, it, you know, he, it really, there is no indication that some of the stuff that she said affected.

John: He wasn't being a pushover. He was just so cool that he was like, "It doesn't matter. Who are you?" But she may have gotten the impression that she could just keep on pushing him because he was trying to give her a lot of grace, a lot of slack, a little feeling-out period to let her see that he's okay with responding to these tests. He thought after she's done this five or six times, she'll realize she's not going to push me around. I'm not going to move. I'm not going to react to this. But then she kept going. So, in a relationship, you're already in a situation where you're supposed to be together, and now you have to address it as a man and say, "Hold up, what did you just say to me? That's not cool. Did you misspeak? Did you want to phrase that a different way?" So that it's very clear what the boundary is, and you're not letting the stuff pile up. At the end of the day, he probably didn't care because he's like, "I'm just going to let her do whatever she's going to do. It's not going to affect me, and at the end of the day, I'm going to make a decision whether I want to be here or not." So, it's like, "I don't really have a horse in this game because if she wants to act this way, I'm just going to let her act however she's going to act." But if you're already in a relationship, you don't want to act like that as a man because you've got to correct the things that need to be corrected because you are supposed to be leading and guiding. If you don't provide that guidance, then it's not going to help.

Nicole: Guys really need to listen to what you're saying because if they realize that if they remain calm, cool, and collected, and stand firm but still be kind and respectful of the situation, they're way more likely to get the result that they want. The second that they also yell or call her names or try to belittle her is the second a woman gets afraid. "Oh, he's always going to act like this. I don't want to do that." And if they don't want to be with him, they're going to try to be more controlling because now they're afraid that you're controlling and aggressive. So, if you come at it the way that he did, in the way that you're talking about, you're way more likely to influence your woman for sure. And if you are the leader of the relationship and you are the masculine man, you have to lead by example. You cannot do the wrong thing. You cannot yell, you cannot belittle her, you cannot handle any sort of problem like that the wrong way and expect to not be held accountable for that because if you're accountable for everything in the relationship, you're the captain of the ship. You're accountable for when you handle things the wrong way too. And I get that that's putting a lot on men, but you can't have it all and then when you make mistakes, not own up to those. So, it's very important for men to realize that yes, you do, in the face of even an altercation or a situation, have to be calm, cool, and collected, and you have to be respectful. Even if you're hurt by whatever the woman's saying because you are leading by example, and you will influence the woman. And also, you will have known that you did the right thing. And then you'll also get to see how she responds to that because there are some instances where if you do everything the right way and you're respectful, and then someone's still blowing up on you and being disrespectful, you're like, "Look, that's easy. She always responds this way. It's probably not going to change, and I've held on to being respectful." I'm sure that's what Tim's dealing with. I highly doubt that's their last altercation. And even though she was like, "You disrespected me," to be honest, when she was describing it, granted I know they edit these shows, she was choosing to call something disrespectful that probably wasn't really that disrespectful, just so she could say she was disrespected. She was talking about, "You didn't leave me alone so I could deal with it." That's not being disrespectful. I get you can ask for some time in the right way, but I doubt she asked for it in the right way. She was probably just like, "Leave me alone. I don't want to deal with you right now." And then he was probably like, "No, let's work on this," and she called that disrespectful, which is not disrespectful. But all I'm saying is if you do the right thing and you remain respectful, you'll also have the boost of knowing that you did the right thing in this situation. And you have to, I'm not saying that you won't make mistakes, but also if you're the leader and you make a mistake, you should also be coming to them first and be like, "Hey, I messed up here. I will do better next time," because you have to promote confidence in yourself as a leader to a woman. And I'm telling you, even a woman like her, that type of man like Tim is the only man that could influence her to be different for sure. Or either she has to figure it out on her own. It's either she figures it out on her own, or she has a man like that guy where he will walk away, and she'll be like, "Crap, that was actually a really good guy, and I messed it up," and try to fix it. And she might even not be able to fix it. And to be honest, if it's as bad as he's acting like it is in that episode, it's probably not fixable. The truth is, most women will not learn this until they meet a real man. And then they'll learn it, and then they'll realize, "Oh yeah, this guy's not just going to take this and just be here," which is what women want. They act like they want men to do whatever they want. They don't. Because I was also that woman. I was like, "This is my way, and I was controlling and independent."

John: I'm like, I want him to do whatever I want, you know, sort of thing, right. But then I was, if you really think about it, that isn't what women want. No, it's not because you want a man that can stand up to you. That's also why she wasn't like, okay, I'm done with you. She was like, I'm so sorry, hugging all over him, and he's still like, I don't know if I want to be with you because his boundary got crossed, right?

Nicole: Yeah, so he's like, I should be walking away, and he had enough thought into it that I believe he would have upheld his boundary. I know that he didn't, but he also put enough emphasis on it where I thought he was potentially not going to go back to her. But you can tell that she respected that because she clung to him.

John: Right, exactly. Yeah, if she really was disrespected, right, and had self-respect for herself, she would have been acting like him and be like, actually, I don't think we can do this because you disrespected me. But he really didn't, right. And so she was clinging to him because he was upholding his boundaries. He was having respect for himself.

Nicole: Yeah, and you have to do that. Like, you have to be able to walk away. You have to have these boundaries as a man. You have to be the role model and the leader to have the influence, and women do want that, no matter what they say.

John: No, yeah, I know they do want that because they already feel like they're so tough and strong, right. And they have these boundaries and this self-respect that they don't want to walk all over you, even if they act like they do. Women want a man who puts them in their place, and then they want to tell that man that they don't want him to put them in their place, and they don't like that. They don't find that attractive, but then they want him to not care that she said that. It's a Love's blind explanation of you, but it is true. If you really think about what I'm saying, a woman really secretly does want a man to put her in her place. She does not want to acknowledge that. She will not acknowledge that. She will adamantly oppose that to that man, but she wants him to do it anyway and to not be influenced by the fact that she doesn't like it or that at the surface level because she needs it.

Nicole: Right, and that's, it might seem harsh, but it's not meant to be harsh, and it shouldn't be done in a harsh way. But a woman has to be checked, and if she feels like a man won't check, she doesn't feel safety. No one would feel safety if you don't feel like you're going to be checked from time to time. And it also makes you feel like your man's being honest with you. Because just like the guy with Monica, how does he actually really feel because he's just agreeing with everything that she's saying. If a man is like, hey, like that wasn't cool, he's telling you the truth, and even if it's a hard thing to hear, he's telling you the truth.

John: Right, and you're right. It should still be in a respectful kind way to bring things up. Like, I think when people freak out over words, so saying like put her in her place, I get what you're saying. I get it, but it's being honest, and it's telling her the truth, even when that truth might be hard for her to hear.

Nicole: Right, but again, if you do it in the right way, then you don't have to worry about being perceived in a negative way. And even if she's upset about it, if you do it in the right way, she's less likely to have any sort of negative response, or she'll come to you more vulnerable, being like, hey, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to do that. And she might talk to you about, you know, why, like what triggered her or something like that. So doing it in the right way is key. And again, it goes back to, you do have to do it as the leader. You have to do it in the right way.

John: Well, and I just have a coaching client of mine that I was telling him about how essentially you're going to have situations because everything is fine and dandy now, but you're going to have situations where you're going to say something she's not going to like it, she's going to be upset about it, and you're going to have to be okay with that. Right, because if you then back down or you change your mind because now she's upset, like if you honestly change your mind as a man, you should. You shouldn't be stubborn, right, change your mind. But if you're changing your mind because now your woman is upset with you, mhm, that's not trustworthy. You can't, that's not authentic. That's not a person I can trust.

Nicole: Right, it's like because you're easily swayed. If I have someone who's coaching me, and they tell me this is what you should do, and I'm like, no, I don't think so, and they're like, okay, well, I guess you're right. Like, they're not going to trust you. How am I trusting this person to give me advice or to lead me in any way because they can't even deal with me being upset with them. They're just going to change their tune. There, like, is that really, do you really believe it this time? Is this really true? You just changed what you said, you know.

John: So, that's the thing about it. As a man has to, and like you said, in that show, one of the guys, he's a big guy, right. He's ex-military, you know, tough guy, and at first, he seemed to be very amiable and just a pleasant person, which I think he is, but he's actually just a pushover, is what he is. And it's very apparent, and that's not the way to act either.

Nicole: Right, so guys, in that situation, there are two things I would say. One, you cannot be a pushover. You do have to set boundaries, like I said. The easiest thing is to tell women what you want and what you don't like. That is clear. You don't have to get into debates and arguments about all that stuff. It's what you want and what you don't like.

John: Right, and then when you are in the situation, just like you said, handling it correctly is brave.

Nicole: Right. Do you remember the last time I got, I got the all right. I just got to be right. Breathe. Start by breathing. Stay calm. If you get emotional, then nobody's going to be logical, and no communication will happen. So, the first step is Breathe. Right.

John: B R. Resist defending yourself, even if she's attacked you. Resist it. Don't defend yourself. Just stay calm. You'll get to that, but once you start defending yourself, now you've lost your credibility, and now you're not going to, she's not going to be listening. She's going to be defending herself back or whatever it is.

Nicole: Right. A is assess the situation.

John: Wait, breathe. Oh, brave. He's trying to knock me off my game. But you said breathe in the brave, yes?

Nicole: Okay, sorry. So, A is assess the situation, right? What is she actually feeling? Why is she acting the way that she's acting? And what does she want to feel, right? What is it that she needs in this moment? She needs to feel loved, right? Why is she doing this? Because, again, even if a woman is being controlling, she's doing it for some reason. Is it because she feels like she needs to prove her own independence, and that she's afraid that you're going to control her? Whatever it is, it doesn't have to be rational, but you assess the situation.

John: Okay, okay.

Nicole: V is for validate her emotions. So now, validate whatever it is, the emotional thing that you analyzed, and let her know that you care about how she feels. Not necessarily agreeing with her, not even agreeing with her behavior, what she did, but validate that what she feels, that you understand, and you do care about how she feels. And then finally, E is educate. That's where you provide the correction if needed, and to say, "Look, this was not cool, the way that you said this. Don't talk to me like this again. That's not the way that things should be handled." Now, she's going to be much more receptive to the educate part, whereas if you start off with that, it's just going to be a mess. It's not going to work like that. But if you've done the other things, and then now you're providing the education, now you're being respectful, now you're being calm, now you're not trying to prove yourself or assert yourself. Because at the end of the day, as a man who has his own self-respect, if you're doing all these things and you're trying to educate and she's not having any of that and she's still acting, then you're just not going to be there. So, you don't need to educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. You don't need to control someone who doesn't want to be controlled. You don't need to do any of that stuff because you know that ultimately, when you handle things that way, you don't want to be with someone who doesn't show you respect at that point. But you have to get to the point where you are making it so there's no loophole where she can be like, "Oh, well, you did this, or you said this, or you acted this way, and that's why I did that." It's like, no, it's clear. It's been laid out. You did all the right steps. As a man, you acted respectful and calm, and then you tried to fix the situation. But it's the same thing, like in parenting, right? You know this as a parent. There's no point, like when a child is being defiant, arguing with you, whatever, doing whatever it is, you just say what you don't have to argue back. You're the one who, if you're a person in power, you can just say what it's going to be.

Nicole: Right. The fact that you're trying to argue back or trying to get into a power struggle. Well, you still have to validate first because they're not going to hear you.

John: Yeah.

Nicole: And then you educate after that. You know what I mean?

John: Yeah, so that makes sense. And I feel like we can't end this without talking to women. And I think they do need to let go of the controlling reins a little bit. I know it's not going to be perfect, and I get that when you're single, you do have to be independent, and you do have to control your life. But if you allow it to get too far, or you're self-absorbed, trying to act like you're confident, and you're more cocky, you don't... You're actually just living from fear, and instead, it's like making you this toxic version because that's where it comes from. She's afraid of being controlled, probably. She's afraid of being judged, or she maybe struggles with how she perceives herself, and so she's coming off overly confident, and to the point too, because overly confident people typically do try to control, or they're like, "You know, my way is the right way." Like, you have to learn how to actually value yourself. And to be honest, you can't do that as a woman if you're not actively working on who you are as a person because you're not going to actually obtain confidence in yourself and have self-respect if you're doing the extreme version, like of the controlling, and or being overly confident, or being like, "It's all about me," or like, "It's going to be this way, or I'm not going to do it," or whatever. Like, you have to live from a place of self-respect, where these are your standards, and if someone doesn't live up to those standards, or whatever, or isn't doing those in whatever situation you're in, you're going to wish them well, and you're going to leave. Not going to try to control them. Like, you're never going to be able to control a man, or even another woman, by acting the way that this woman's acting. And a lot of women think that they are because men have become so people-pleasing. They're like, "Oh, I am controlling him." So, they're like, "Oh, it's working. I have this power." Yeah, you might have a puppet man that you could do that to, but not a real man.

John: Well, that's why they're not actually happy.

Nicole: Yeah, again, anyway, because they aren't being faced with someone being actually honest and like having an actual honest conversation with them. And to be honest, if you're that far into the toxic, like controlling, and things like that, or it's all about me, yeah, you're not going to put up with that. But that's also like, you're missing out on the good thing, actually. Yeah, that's kind of hard to explain, but just don't go into the super toxic, super controlling, you know, all about me role. Like, be independent when you're independent. And I understand, like the Nicki D guy that Hannah cannot put her faith in that man, right? Then she cannot. And instead of trying to be with that man and try to control him into the man you want, or try to teach him by being like, "Do this right," let that man go. He's not for you. Right, that is having standards, that is having boundaries, and that's also being kind, being like, "Hey, I just don't think we're compatible. I wish you the best, but we wouldn't work out." That is how you be, even as a woman. You can, that is controlling what you can control, and that's all you can focus on. You can only focus on what's on your sheet of paper. And the only thing that you can control is not how a man acts, not what he does, not what you're going to force him to do. It's only what you do. Yeah, and if the man is not a man, or the man is not conveying the things that you want in a relationship, then you wish them well, and you.

John: Move on, you date other people, and women shouldn't be afraid of the right man leading their relationship. I understand that women fear controlling men. In past history, women were abused and nobody really knew about it. But these days, both women and men are abused, and it's because we've got it all sorts of wrong in all the ways that we've talked about on this whole podcast. Like seeing a woman act like that Alex girl was acting, you don't want to be that woman. You don't want to be a woman that people in general don't want to be around. Men definitely won't want to, but people in general won't want to be around you if you're acting like everything has to be what you say because you're so controlling, and you're so critical, and you're so like putting everybody down for the things that you don't believe in.

Nicole: Yeah, and you can control your life without acting that way. It's having self-respect and it's having boundaries. It's also having the intelligence, emotional or even just normal, to understand that if you're with a man that you trust, he takes you into consideration, he cares about you, and he shows you that. He doesn't just say things. I know a lot of these women too are afraid that men have just been saying these things and they're trying to see it. You need to trust that you can follow the lead of this man. And again, men, you do have a really hard job. There's not a lot of room for error. They will give you chances if you make mistakes because we're all human, but you really have to do the right thing.

John: Yeah, and I think you've explained how to do that very well. And women, you need to allow the man to do that, and you will have the polarity, and you will have the romance and friendship that make a truly fulfilling relationship.

Nicole: Yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's harder to do or to recognize that you're doing it right than most people realize. But yeah. And the thing is, if you don't make those changes, then you will push away the only men who could deal with you because they just won't want to. Otherwise, you have some pushover guys that will deal with it for a time, but it won't be a good relationship. Like, you won't know if the guy's telling you the truth, you won't know if he's going to stand up for you because you're not allowing him to stand up for himself; you're just steamrolling him. And what I think a lot of these women don't realize, like on this show, for instance, is that they're used to getting away with this and doing this. And in this situation, a man is going to make a choice whether he's going to go forward or not. And it's just not going to work. Like, you can't, if you're already in a situation and you've got someone by the balls and you do this and you control them and manipulate them, they're going to feel trapped. And yeah, they might do what you're saying and back down all the time, but when it comes down to it, a guy's got to make a choice like, am I going to go up to this altar? And he's just not going to do it because why would he? He has got no incentive. So, that's the thing, it may have been working up until this point, but if you really want a guy that you really want, he's just going to realize that he has a choice.

Nicole: Right. People, okay, I have to say one more thing to end this. People act like they want to live their life right, like they want to be independent, they want to do what they want. In a relationship, that is not freedom. That is not being who you actually are. In a relationship, the freedom that you have is to be authentically yourself and to speak your truth. That's the freedom you have. You don't have the freedom to do whatever you want because you should take other people into consideration. And you don't have the freedom to just boss people around or be like it's my way or the highway. You do have to compromise, and you do have to take the other person into consideration, but you always have, and you should always have, the freedom to speak your truth. Men should be able to do that too, like we've talked about, and women should as well, respectfully, because you respect your partner. And to be authentically yourself, and that's liking what you like. Like that guy wanting that hat, you should be able to buy whatever hat you want and your partner not make you feel bad for it. That's the freedom you have in a relationship. You should feel free to be yourself truly and feel like someone loves you for who you truly are, and that includes being able to speak your truth and how you actually feel and feel like that person still cares about you and cares about your opinion. That is the freedom you have, not the freedom to do whatever you want, not the freedom to go on girls' trips because you want to, and not care what your husband thinks about that. It's the freedom to be who you are. And if you try to tell me that girls' trips are who you are, then you've got a whole another problem. But that's the freedom that's in a relationship. It's not the freedom to just do whatever you want. Be single if that's the freedom you want.

John: Yeah, I agree. So, alright, that's all I got to say. Well, we don't have any... I'm never not knocking on wood after you did that one to us that one time.

Nicole: I know, I did jinx us.

John: More than once. But yeah, you have. That's why I'm just going to knock on wood. Thank God this table's wood. Well, if you don't know what we're talking about, you can watch Love Is... I mean, I think it still makes sense even without watching the show, honestly. But you know, so true. But that, we always watch The Love is Blind show because it's just got so much good information about the situations that you see. It's a TV show, but people deal with this in real life too.

Nicole: Yeah. So, and if you want to be on the podcast or want us to talk about your topics or situation, what's the email?

John: betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com.

Nicole: That's right. And you can leave us a review on... I'm about to leave us a review just so it's not banana fingers. But hey, again, we appreciate banana fingers, but yeah, it's time for something new.

John: Alright, yeah. Maybe next season we'll do a live stream of the episodes, figure that out so we can so you can watch us talk about it live, which is maybe not the best idea, but it will be... I'll be... I'll adjust myself, fake though, in some way. I maybe it's just this season, but it's very like scripty to me.

Nicole: Yeah, well, situations are. It's also where this is also DC, right? Is the so like the area.

John: I went to DC, yeah. But I'm...

John: Just saying, it's a little bit more wokish, and so everyone's trying to say the right thing and note that everybody's doing battles between each other and just who's the most... There's a lot of weaponized therapist talk, which I hate. You know, so it doesn't have any substance. That's why when we're watching it multiple times, we're like, "What did they even just say?"

Nicole: Yeah, yeah, just a lot of fluff, fluffy stuff. So, alright, well, that's it. We'll see you next week. Take care. We find our way.