Nicole [00:00:00]: For women, I think the best thing is acceptance. Because their thing is like, well, maybe I can convince him that I'm the woman for him, or maybe he'll change his mind. I think that accepting he doesn't want to be with you is actually the thing that a lot of times will have a man also pursue you. Again, acceptance for women is kind of the same thing of like the nonchalantness for men.

John [00:00:20]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:00:21]: That is what can bring a man actually back, is not fighting against it. Right. Even if you created this whole fantasy in your head that, like, we're gonna get married and have two kids, you're practicing his last name with your first name, even if you've gone full blown down that rabbit hole, you have to accept it.

John [00:00:36]: Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect, we stay through every.

Nicole [00:00:49]: Fault we find our way.

John [00:00:53]: All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how to perfect people. Helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:01:02]: Were you still stressed about the beginning?

John [00:01:04]: It's just the noise.

Nicole [00:01:06]: Oh, you're distracted.

John [00:01:07]: I think that's what it is.

Nicole [00:01:08]: Throwing off your game.

John [00:01:09]: But we don't do. We don't do retakes. We just roll with it. That's what we do. Because the life comes along and it vacuums above you and you just roll with it.

Nicole [00:01:18]: That's right.

John [00:01:19]: That's how it works.

Nicole [00:01:19]: That's right. Well, today we're going to be talking about rejection.

John [00:01:25]: Rejection.

Nicole [00:01:27]: Rejection.

John [00:01:28]: What about it?

Nicole [00:01:30]: I mean, all the complicatedness of rejection. I mean, honestly, when we were coming up with topics and we hadn't done this one, which was kind of crazy.

John [00:01:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:40]: But I do think that it's important, especially for men, because I think that men are the ones that are putting themselves out there a lot more than women are and they are facing rejection a lot more than women are. And also a lot of men don't know how to handle rejection properly and that ends up kind of biting them in the foot. And, you know, also, I feel like it'd be good to hear from a woman's perspective to hear about men facing rejection and what's that's like and that sort of experience. Because again, I don't think women really understand and women should understand and. Yeah. And then also, I mean, women face rejection as well too. Normally it's after they've been on a few dates with the guy and a guy rejects them or ghosts them or something like that. So they still face rejection. But I think it would just be important to explore this topic from definitely a male's perspective, but also female perspective as well.

John [00:02:44]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll give you a good example. Hey. Of just rejection. Just. Just now, I just was looking at my phone and there's like. For the. For the sales thing I'm doing for Rockstar Developer University, there's a guy that didn't show up for a call that he scheduled with me yesterday. Right. And then when I talked to him on the phone, he acted nonchalant about it, in a way. Dismissive, I would say. And then I have some text messages that I sent him to follow up, to reschedule a call, and he's all acting like, oh, I don't know. I'll think about it. But it's like, look, I can feel like, okay, I'm rejected by this because this guy's acting like a bit of a diva here. Or I can be like, is this a person I want to work with? You know what I'm saying? It's like. You see what I'm saying? It's like. And that's maybe the.

Nicole [00:03:39]: You have to reframe it.

John [00:03:41]: Yeah. Because it's like my biggest view on rejection is that no one can reject you. You reject yourself. Right. So there's no such thing as rejection. There's only you internalizing it, and then you rejecting yourself. Because. Just because someone doesn't necessarily want to do what you want or treat you the way that you want to be treated doesn't mean they're rejecting you. It just means that there's not a compatibility there or there's something going on or they're making a choice. It's only. It's us who interpret it as rejection. So even when I would coach guys on dating. Coaching. And they would go up to a girl and the girl would, quote, reject them, they would ask how to deal with rejection. And I would say, why do you think that she rejected you? She didn't reject you. Oh. Because I went to talk to her, I said, hey. And she said, I'm not interested. That's not rejection. Why are you considering that to be rejection? How is she rejecting you? She doesn't know who you are. You literally said two words to her, right? She doesn't know anything about you. She doesn't know, like, 99% about you. She doesn't know. So she can't be rejecting you. She could be rejecting your current appearance or whatever it is, or the clothes that you're wearing, or it could be that her cat just Died or something is going on. You have to attach a meaning to the words in order to be rejected. But just saying I'm not interested is not a rejection. Why is she not interested? And it might not have anything to do with you, or it might have to do with something superficially about you that has nothing to do with who you really are. So are you actually rejected? It's only when you internalize that and attach a meaning to it and then say, oh, it's because I'm not attractive enough, or she rejected me as a person that the rejection exists. Otherwise it doesn't exist. And I think that's the, just as the way to look at this, the healthy way to look at it in life is that no one can reject you. You are the person who rejects yourself. It's only you taking the interpretation of someone who's saying, no, not right now, or maybe and then turning that into a rejection.

Nicole [00:06:02]: Yeah, well, I agree with you, but I think maybe you should go back to your own personal experiences, because I know that you talked about, I think in school there was a girl you liked and you wrote her a letter and, you know, she said she wasn't interested or something. And then kind of how like your experience with rejection transformed. Because I think that would be beneficial to everyone to hear, but mostly the men. Because it's one thing to just say, like, don't view it as rejection, like, which is true. I'm not saying that that's not true. And that is the most important thing that we are going to talk about for sure. But that is the key, that is the way to reframe rejection and not ever really feel rejected by what you said. That is true. But I think we should go back to like, your experience and how you transformed and now how you help people, like you said, deal with that and that is the reframing of it. But I think we should go back to before because you probably did feel rejected and you probably did handle things differently. And then how that you got to where you have this mindset now about rejection.

John [00:07:20]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've never been rejected, so I don't know what it's like. But, but in high school, in reality, that's true. Right, but that's what I'm saying is that I will double down on it that I've never been rejected, which is.

Nicole [00:07:32]: Good to have that mindset because you.

John [00:07:34]: Have to understand that that's true. But, but to, to. To do what you're asking, I will talk about. So, yeah, so when I, I Was in high school, there was a girl that I had a CR like maybe 14 or 15 years old. And I wrote this letter, this love letter to her, I remember, and pass it to her in school. And then I didn't hear anything until a few days later. And then after class she said, I need to talk to you. And then she said, I think it's really nice what you said, but I just don't think it would work or something like that. And at that point I did feel rejected because I didn't have the kind of psychology that I had now. So it's weird though. I don't think I was. I think some people get angry, right? I think for me it became more of a self reflective thing of I need to get better, I need to improve. If I had bigger biceps then she would like me more. Right. So it became something where I internalized it and it also made me want to keep on trying to get this girl, girl that rejected me. Right. But I think the thing about it is that how did that evolve over time? How did I get over that? A lot of it just came from exposure. So you have to realize, I think a lot of guys are shocked to realize that even if you go out and if you're going to go and try to talk to a woman in a bar or a nightclub or anywhere, probably 9 out of 10 are not going to give you a positive response. Notice I don't say rejected because it doesn't mean you're rejected. You're just not going to get the positive response. Maybe 1 out of 10 will actually talk to you or give you her phone number or whatever. And a lot of those aren't even going to work out. But you have to go out there and face rejection in order to, to, to get over again improve. Yeah, like I, I, I. This year I started doing sales for the first time, right. I've been on hundreds of sales calls. Most of those sales calls do not result in a deal. It doesn't matter how good of a salesperson you are, you're not going to close. A majority of the sales calls, majority of them are not going to result in a deal. And so you can feel rejected by that or you can realize that that's just there's different reasons, right? Some person, they don't have the money. Another person, it didn't vibe with them or there's something going on in their life or whatever it is that it's not about you personally. And some of it might be your ability to sell that it wasn't at the level that it needed to be at that point, but the point is that you have to go out there and experience or face the potential of rejection in order to realize that one, it's not that bad. It's part of life. Like, it's part of the progress. Like, if I never doing sales, if I never allowed myself to be in the position where I could be rejected, then I wouldn't be able to do sales. I wouldn't be able to make any kind of money doing that. Because that's always going to be a possibility. Right. So there's no. Like, if you're just betting on sure things, then, and you're not taking any kind of risk, then you're not going to get any kind of the rewards. And so I think that's the way that you have to think about it. Is it more of a numbers game? There's some percentage of people that are going to like you. They're going to give you a positive response. Some of it will be because of you or how they're perceiving you. Some of it will be because of their own life circumstances and what's happening in their life. But you can't take it personally.

Nicole [00:11:22]: Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just wanted you to also, which you did a little bit. I know that you're not in that place now, but I think it's important to talk about how guys who don't have the mindset that you have probably feel and then the best way to kind of get them to that mindset. Because I understand what you're saying.

John [00:11:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:46]: And I know you understand what you're saying. But I feel like we really should probably try to get down to talking to the people who, like, really don't get it and are really stuck in that view of rejection being about them and that it's just ruining their. Their time. Like what? Everything you're saying is true, but I feel like we really have to, like, dive into kind of how they're feeling so that they feel understood. Because everybody has felt rejection in the way that they have felt. But like you said, if you want to grow and be better and take those risks like you're talking about, then you do get to a point where you don't view rejection in that way anymore. But I think if you're still deep in that place where you view rejection like that, just hearing somebody be like, don't view it that way anymore is not going to help.

John [00:12:40]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:12:40]: So that's, I guess, What I'm trying to, to get us to really get into the depths of is kind of go down to where they're feeling because everybody's been there and like the best ways for them to take the baby steps to get towards having the mindset of it's not. Rejection is not something that you have to take personally and put on yourself, but you should use it to better yourself at the same time, you know. So.

John [00:13:08]: Yeah, well, I think it comes down to that. The most common reaction, the way that people deal with rejection is either they blame themselves, they get down on themselves, or they blame the other person. Right. So it's either one of self deprecation or anger. And that's an unhealthy way to deal with it, which is why we have to reframe it out of rejection is because you're going to feel a certain way about that. And I think that's the thing is because when you're rejected, right, for lack of a better term, where you feel rejected, a lot of times you might feel like there's something wrong with you. Right. That you are a screw up or a failure. Right. We talked about kind of the black pill kind of mindset of thinking that you have to be the most attractive guy otherwise women won't like you. And like reinforcing these negative beliefs about yourself or thinking that you're just awkward or you're unattractive, like all of these things just from one rejection we can gather all of that and feel like that's truth in reality, when we don't understand that it's a percentage, it's a part of the numbers of life is that there's certain, like one rejection might. A lot of guys, their first experience is rejection and then they just believe that that's how all experiences will be. Right. Or their first three experiences are five experiences of rejections and they don't realize that it might be a 1 out of 10 thing.

Nicole [00:14:38]: They think in absolutes.

John [00:14:40]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:14:40]: You know. Yeah.

John [00:14:42]: Or they'll be really angry at the woman thinking that there's something wrong with her. Like, you know, that's, that's a common reaction is to blame the woman. Like she's so stuck up, she's such a bitch or whatever it is because she's rejected you. Right. And that happens a lot of times in dating where a guy will be, let's say texting a girl or, or maybe he even goes on a date with her. And it happens especially with really people pleaser, with nice guys where they will say all these Things and try to impress a girl, try to get the girl to like them. And then when the girl rejects them, then all of a sudden they flip the tables and they get violent or pissed off, or they say nasty things or they comment about her appearance and see these things.

Nicole [00:15:36]: And.

John [00:15:36]: And so that, you know, again, that comes usually from guys that are. That's also why a lot of women don't like nice guys, is because they can't handle rejection because they're not really nice. Right. It's not really being kind. You're just hiding. You're masking what's really there. Then the truth comes out and the real person gets revealed. Right. And that's.

Nicole [00:15:56]: And women are afraid to reject men because they don't know how they're gonna respond. And so then men also get upset for women leading men on. But women are in this impossible place as well too, to be like, I don't know how he's going to react if I tell him I'm not interested. So how do I, like, safely tell him no? Or like, what way is going to get me to not have to deal with him anymore, but in a safe way because I don't know how he's going to respond to no. So that also is a tricky situation for women because I feel like men could be. Or women could be more direct with men and tell them the truth if they handled the rejection like you said, for lack of better term, better and in the way that you're talking about. And then men also wouldn't feel like women are so complicated. Yeah. Because I think more women would be upfront about how they feel if they weren't afraid for the violent, potentially response from.

John [00:17:00]: Or even just emotional violence. There's no such thing as really emotional violence. But the emotional, like, well, you're a bitchy, which it's also hurtful or something you don't want to deal with. Well, I was just telling one of my coaching clients because he was complaining about women dating and women flaking on dates, or he would text girls on. On dating apps, whatever, and then they never actually want to go on a date or whatever. And he was like, I don't understand. I was explaining to him, I was like, look, for you going on a date as a guy, it's fun. Hey, cute girl. You might even get laid. That's fun. It's exciting. For a girl going on a date, a lot of times it's not as fun. I mean, yes, there's some anticipation or excitement, but she's also thinking, what if I don't like this guy, and then I'm stuck with him. And then I, like, I'm not having a good time, and then I have to kind of tell him that I don't want to see him again. And then he texts me all this crap or whatever. He starts stalking me online. Or like, what if even the date's going well? And then he's a creep and like, he tries to do something or he's violent or whatever it is, or, you know, she was thinking, like, if I go on a date with this guy, if I even show up to the date I'm opening myself to, if I have to reject him later on, that he's going to act in a weird way. And so that's why it's harder to get a girl to go out on a date because she wants to. She needs the coolness check as well. That's why it's like, if you flirt with a girl and you're vibey and you tease her a little bit, she feels more like that you're being real and that you could handle a rejection if you didn't like her. Because you're a cool guy who's probably dating a lot of women. So you're not going to take this so personally. If you're a guy who's. You're texting a girl and you're overly attached and you're like, you're so beautiful. You're like, oh, I can't wait to go on a date with you. You're. You're creating a situation where she feels the pressure of, like, what if she doesn't like you? And then you start reacting in a negative or violent way. You see what I'm saying? So there's so much more pressure for a girl to go on a date. That's why also, girls flake in no show on. It's not good to flake on anyone. But she's probably like. She's like, girls aren't setting up dates with guys in order to flake on them, right? Like, to suddenly have this, like, It's. She's getting up to that point and she's feeling uncomfortable and she's, like, worried and she's like, oh, what if this doesn't go well? Is this guy. You know, I don't want to, like, lead this guy on. I'm not sure. I'm looking at his pictures again. I don't know if I'm going to like this guy. That's what's happening. And so it's like, you have to understand this as a guy. Right. Because that's. And it does come from guys not being able to handle rejection. So that's why it's like, if you come across as this cool guy that's more nonchalant, then it's less likely that she's going to fear that you're going to not be able to handle rejection.

Nicole [00:20:01]: Wow. I just want to say I am very impressed and proud of you for understanding the women's perspective. And, like, I know that, you know, it's not easy as a man to stand up for something like that, but that is how women feel, you very accurately put it. And it's not like women want to deceive men like you said they want, because if they're with the guy that they feel like, like you said, with, like, the flirting and kind of, like, teasing each other, then she does feel like she can be more honest and upfront. Because you've already kind of, like, had these situations where it's like, she knows you didn't get but hurt and freak out. But a lot of women's situations with men is she doesn't know how she's. He's going to respond. And that is way more scary to a woman than just ghosting or flaking. You know, like just kind of dropping off the face of the earth. Like, a woman's like, well, he'll eventually, like, forget about it, I guess. And, like, then I don't have to be in contact with him. Because like you said, a woman's not setting up a date to flake. She's weighing so many more options that men don't even ever think about. Like you said, a guy's like, I'm going to go have fun and talk to a pretty girl and hopefully get laid. Women are like, I need to tell all my friends that I'm going on this date and let them know so that in case something happens to me, I need to, you know, make sure I have something that I can use to get out of this situation if it's becomes an uncomfortable situation that I'm, like, worried about. Like, they're planning all this stuff just to go hang out with you, and they still want to go hang out with you. But men not being able to handle rejection in the way that you're talking about actually makes it more complicated for men. Because men are like, just tell me the truth. But we can't tell you the truth.

John [00:21:56]: Right. Because you can't handle. You can't handle the truth.

Nicole [00:21:58]: Exactly. And so they think women are These complicated creatures. But really we've just adapted to try to be safe against these. The men who are coming across more violent or unable to handle rejection because they're the ones that you don't know what they're going to do. Like, and you see it in certain stories of men going to extremes when they can't handle rejection. Like their exes, they go after their exes in these like, violent ways. I'm not saying that all men do, but that is the extreme version of not being able to handle the rejection of not being able to handle not getting what you want. And like, that's why this, I feel like, is a very important conversation. And I'm. I'm really glad that you brought up the perspective that you did because I think hopefully this will help men understand that this is why the flaking and stuff like that happens is because women are afraid of how a man's going to respond unless she feels like you guys have already had some sort of dynamic where there's been sort of like maybe joking around or talking in a way where a guy's said something that is potentially upsetting to a woman and kind of like made it where you can tell that he is open to having those sort of harder conversations. And so it would be easier to have a like, honest conversation with a man like that. But if like you said, you're on a date with some guy and he's just been love bombing you the whole time or like, oh my God, you're so amazing and you've barely known each other and you can tell he's already so invested but you're not feeling the same. It doesn't even if the guy's been nice. And like you said, sometimes that's even worse because you feel like there is that like instant switch that flips with the nice guys and they just become so angry. Like it kind of like trap makes a woman feel trapped and so they're going to just run away, they're going to just ghost rather than having to potentially put themselves in harmful situations.

John [00:24:06]: Yeah, I liked what you said about. Let me just write this down before I go.

Nicole [00:24:12]: He's taking notes for the first time.

John [00:24:15]: I liked what you said about saying not getting what you want because that is actually the perfect way to phrase, to reframe rejection is because what happens when you think that you're getting rejected is, is what's actually happening is the reality is you're not getting what you want. And then you're choosing to interpret it as rejection. So it's a problem of not being able to deal with not getting what you want. Because if you go up to a girl that you're attracted to, you want her to be attracted to you too, and she doesn't or you want her to respond positively at that point, it's not getting what you want. Now when you internalize it and say it's because of me, it could be a million reasons why she could, like I said, her cat could have just died or whatever, or she's married and she's at the club because whatever, she shouldn't be there. But whatever it is, you don't know what it is. But when you don't get what you want and you interpret it as rejection, that's a choice that you're making. No one can reject you. That's a better way that I can communicate that point. So I'm glad you said those words because that's what it is. Because every time that you're feeling rejected, it's really you're not getting what you.

Nicole [00:25:23]: Want or expected that you would get.

John [00:25:26]: And now you are interpreting this as rejection. You could also interpret this as just simply a no or not right now. It doesn't mean rejection. Right? It's like every time we get a no or we don't get what we want, we don't immediately assume we're rejected. You know, if you go to a store and you and they don't have your favorite soda or whatever it is, you don't say, oh, I'm rejected. You just say, I didn't get what I wanted at this point. Like, you know what I'm saying? So the other thing I was going to say about this was that sometimes also like handling the rejection can put you in higher level of guy in a woman's eyes. I know there's been times where I've been out at a club when I was doing dating, coaching and stuff and I would talk to a girl and she would turn her back on me or say something offhand or whatever and I would just be like chill, like not phase at all. And I go talk to the girl next to her and then I'm talking to the girl next to her and then the girl comes over and joins the conversation. Why? Because.

Nicole [00:26:29]: Because you actually handled it. And it's so rare to see a guy handle rejection properly that it's attractive and it shows how emotionally intelligent and just intelligent in general that you are that you can handle it that way. Because that's, that's, that's not the norm, I guess. That's what I'm saying is like, men call women flaky and all this stuff, but we're trying to explain why. And some women just flake just to flake. I'm not saying it's all for the. The rejection thing that we're talking about, but that's why that happened to you, is because it's so rare to see a man actually handle rejection well, that it's attractive and it shows a deeper kind of growth and mindset that that man has in order to operate from that way. So this should also be a good thing for men to hear.

John [00:27:21]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:27:22]: Is that if you conquer this.

John [00:27:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:24]: It also makes you more attractive.

John [00:27:26]: People notice it. They notice how you act like, oh, cool, I'm just here to have a good time. Doesn't matter. Like, you could still have a good time. You don't even have to like me. We could still have a good time. You know what I'm saying? Even. Even when I was on dates, I would sometimes go in for the kiss. Very rarely. I would get swerved, but I would get swerved. Very rarely, but I get swerved. Right? Cause guys are gonna. How this is gonna happen when you go in for. Right. And so when you get swerved at that point, like, how do you act? Right? Because I would just be like, cool. And then I would try again later and then. And then she would kiss because she's like, okay. In her mind, she's like, okay, this guy, he didn't act like a whole. Like a butt hurt just because I didn't kiss him at this moment. Right? And now that's more attractive. So it's like. But a lot of guys, they'll go in for the kiss or whatever, they get swerved and then now they start being quiet.

Nicole [00:28:18]: Right. Right on the date.

John [00:28:19]: Or they're like, right, exactly. Or they're like screwing, whatever. Or they're just feeling self rejected and they're acting now pathetic. And it's like, no, you just gotta be cool about it. So what? Not a big deal. Try again later. You know, I mean, obviously read the room. Don't just like, go for it. Be a weird, creepy. But yeah, but the point is that it's an internal thing. Another analogy that I like to use is if you're walking down the street and someone reached into their pocket to grab their phone and a hundred dollar bill fell out on the ground, and you were walking behind them and you saw that and you pick up the $100 bill and you go up to them and you're like, hey, hey, you dropped this. And they're like, ooh, get away from me. This is your hundred dollar bill. I didn't. That's not my. What are you doing? Get away from me. You wouldn't feel rejected. You'd feel like they're an idiot. Right. It's like, because you have something that's valuable that you're trying to give them, and they don't even realize that that is. So that's how it is when you know your own value as a human being and you go up to someone and they're acting like you're a freak or whatever. Like, it's like they're just rejecting $100 bill. They're not rejecting you, they're just. They're the ones who have the problem. So don't think, don't internalize. It doesn't mean they're bad.

Nicole [00:29:35]: $100 bill, right.

John [00:29:36]: You have to be the $100 bill.

Nicole [00:29:37]: And that's the thing too, is that, you know, I'm not saying that everybody shouldn't feel like they're special, but you have to also be honest with yourself. Do you have anger problems? Do you have a problem facing the rejection? Do you? You know, whatever. We all have things we need to work on, and we'll constantly be working on them. But if you're a man that can't handle the rejection, you have to realize that you're not a hundred dollar bill yet, right?

John [00:30:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:06]: Because you still have this thing to work on. And so again, I'm not saying you have to be perfect to be a hundred dollar bill, but if you really, really can't handle rejection, or you have anger problems that are, like, affecting your life because you get so angry and you lash out, like, those are big things that will keep you from having any sort of relationships. Not just romantic, but definitely romantic.

John [00:30:30]: Oh, yeah. I wanted to go back to the flaking on the date thing that you said too, because one of the things I tell guys all the time when a woman flakes on them on a date is obviously you don't want to just be like, oh, it's not a problem, no big deal, let's go. How about Tuesday night we reschedule? Because again, if you think of this from the frame of her fearing, rejecting you, what's gonna happen? She's gonna agree to Tuesday night and then not show up again. Right. Because she's not just gonna flat out reject you because you're showing too much eagerness. So you don't wanna do that. You Also don't wanna be like, she flakes on you. Be like, I can't believe you flaked on me then.

Nicole [00:31:12]: Cause then that's exactly why she flaked.

John [00:31:14]: So then. Right. But instead I always tell guys, say something like, oh, you know what that means? Then like, okay, now you owe me a drink.

Nicole [00:31:22]: 20 push ups when you get to the bar.

John [00:31:23]: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, we can reschedule if you're going to be there, but you're going to have to do 20 push ups, something like that. Because. Or saying. Or even if you're saying, hey, look, I don't appreciate my time being wasted. So if you actually want to go on a date, I'm happy to reschedule, but. But I need to make sure that you're actually going to show up if you're going to like, I mean, that's. It's a little bit.

Nicole [00:31:52]: That's still a little. Like, she might still flake a little bit. Yeah, but if she already knows who you are as a person and knows that you have boundaries, I think that'd work. But I think if you're just texting and you haven't met actually yet, that might still come across as a little like, yeah, emotionally butt hurt.

John [00:32:09]: The best way is to joke about it is to be like, oh, I didn't realize you're a flaky girl. And then she's like, I'm not a flaky. Well, okay, I'll tell you what, I'll let you reschedule it if you buy me a drink when we get there or whatever it is. Or you owe me this now. So just playing it off cool, where you're still calling it out, you're not just ignoring it and just letting her flake on you, but because again, if you think it through the lens of the psychology of the rejection thing, you're showing that you can handle rejection. If you're too much of a pushover, that's going to send the wrong message.

Nicole [00:32:45]: Or handle not getting what you want.

John [00:32:46]: Exactly. If you can play it off and be funny about it, but give her a little bit of crap about it, tease her about it, then that's the guy that. You know that if things didn't work out, well, he's being funny and cool about things, so it's not going to be a problem. So even if she goes on the date, then she's more likely to go on the date with you because if she doesn't like you afterwards, she doesn't feel like you're going to Be one of these weirdos and get angry and do all this stuff because she's already stood you up one time and you didn't act like a total freak out on her. You know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:33:18]: No, definitely, I agree.

John [00:33:20]: Yeah. What else we got about rejection? I mean, women deal with rejection too, right?

Nicole [00:33:24]: Women do. It's again, it's usually a little different because they're not the ones usually approaching men. But I'm sure some women do still approach men and they get rejected.

John [00:33:34]: I think that doesn't go well, though, when that happens. I've seen that.

Nicole [00:33:38]: Probably not. But usually at the same time, though, I think before we go fully into women, I think that again, I want women to realize that men are constantly putting themselves out there in a position that women don't do. Like, they don't understand.

John [00:33:55]: Yeah, that's true.

Nicole [00:33:55]: They don't understand having to go up to the people and start those conversations and put yourself out there initially, because they don't typically do it. And like you said, I'm sure some do it and get really upset because they are never used to doing it. And that's probably also why men do it and they get upset. But that's why, though, it is more critical for men to understand what you're saying because they are the ones typically pursuing. They are the pursuers. And so they are going up there and they are putting themselves in a place where they are going to feel potentially more rejected. But that's why this conversation is so important for them to get out of that sort of mindset and heal those sort of parts of them that is angry or, you know, feeling negative about themselves. But I want women to understand and try to put themselves in a man's shoes to realize that that is a hard thing to do, because it is. And I don't think that men get the credit enough for doing that. Like, it is just, like, expected. And women don't really understand that perspective. So I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about that. I think that's a man. Because before we go into the women, I just want to make sure that we fully hit all the men's stuff. Because I do feel like this is more of a men's issue.

John [00:35:21]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:35:22]: Because they are the pursuers and they the ones typically putting themselves in those positions and they are the ones that typically are having a hard time dealing with those feelings because they're just doing it more. They're feeling it more.

John [00:35:34]: Well, I mean, if you think about it I think because that's a really good point. Because if you're an average guy, right? Just average guy, the, the amount women don't realize how hard it is because women can just get a date, right? It's easy to get a date. You could go on a dating app. You don't even have to go on a dating app. If you go out somewhere, you're going to get approached by guys. You have opportunities you never, as a woman, even if you're not the most attractive woman, you're probably going to have some opportunities to go on dates that you don't have to really initiate very much. Whereas the average guy, the level of effort that he has to go on to just even get one date, let's say that he's going out and trying to meet women and go to talk to women at a bar or a club or whatever, whatever venue it is. I mean, realistically, if a guy doesn't even have very much experience doing that, it might take him, he might have to talk to 100 women to get one positive response. 100. So think about what's being asked. I'm talking about an average guy, average looking guy, average level of skill. He doesn't have the million dollar mouthpiece and all this stuff. He's just an average dude. Think about that. He would have to be rejected 99 times or in his mind, rejection, not get what he wants in order to get one. And you can kind of see why a lot of guys get discouraged or get angry or think that it's. I mean, obviously they need the understanding to understand that this is. It is difficult. But having the empathy to realize how difficult it is, I think can be helpful. Especially when you do have to turn down a guy that you can do it in a way that you understand that he's not just some creep that's talking to women. He's a guy that this is only option, right? How is he going to have a family or date if he doesn't actually, first of all, he has the balls to do it, which most guys don't even, you know what I'm saying? So if you're being approached by a guy, even if you feel like he's a little bit weird or whatever, be kind to him because he's actually doing it. You know what I'm saying? It's different if he approaches you and he's acting like a jerk and says some kind of sexual remark or something like that. Obviously that's a different situation. But it is extremely difficult for most guys. It's amazing that guys end up and it's becoming more difficult in this world because of social media, because of Instagram, because the women that are attractive, they have a ton of guys that are very high status, high profile guys that they can get attention from, that they can go on a dating app and it's skewed in their favor for the most part, most places in the world. And so I think women forget how difficult it is and how much a guy has to face this. And that's why it's so important for a guy to learn how to face this. Because the only guys that are actually going to be successful are guys that can actually face rejection because it's going to require a lot of at bats before you hit that home run as a man. And so you got to be prepared for it as a man. That's the other thing is to think about. So you have to learn this skill to overcome rejection if you're going to be successful. But also, like you said, women kind of have to have some empathy for understanding that women have their own struggles, like I talked about. And there's more than that. But this is a very big thing that most women have no idea about even. I think you're probably the first time when we met, I used to do the in person dating, coaching, like pickup type of thing, but I still had one client that when, when we had first met. And you, you actually went on that coaching experience and saw it. And I would imagine that you're probably surprised by how many women he had to talk and how hard it was to actually even get an interaction.

Nicole [00:39:31]: Yeah, no, I mean like I knew before, but that was an experience, like kind of, that was definitely a first experience being like you and I trying to help him, you know, talk to women.

John [00:39:43]: But you, you seeing it from that perspective, right?

Nicole [00:39:46]: Like seeing him actually go up and try to find somebody to talk to him or like hang out with him for the night. Yeah. Was a different experience.

John [00:39:54]: Yeah. So because, because most women have never had that experience, you know what I'm saying? They don't know. They're just like, oh.

Nicole [00:40:00]: And even if you have guy friends, they don't. It's different than like watching them like try to go talk to women because that's not really what's happening. Even if you go out with your guy friends, like you're not just trying, you're not just coaching them the whole time and like watching them go up to women, you're like hanging out and try to like talk to people as well too. So it is a different experience when, like, you're in that coaching environment.

John [00:40:25]: Yeah, yeah. To actually see it firsthand of.

Nicole [00:40:27]: Yeah.

John [00:40:27]: What guys really go through, it's. It's hard.

Nicole [00:40:29]: So, yeah, I mean, like, I was a very, like, bold woman. So, like, I definitely, when I was single, would go up to guys, not be like her. Like, you know, not like, pretend to be a guy.

John [00:40:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:42]: But I would be like, hey, you're attractive looking or whatever. And then there were plenty of times I didn't do it a lot, but there. Most of the time that I did that I got rejected. So it's like, just from those few. Like, I didn't get butt hurt about it.

John [00:40:57]: No.

Nicole [00:40:58]: But just from those few experiences that I had myself. Like, I can definitely empathize with men having to do that constantly and being constantly, like. Because even you with, like, you've talked about sales and I've seen you even get discouraged. Like, it's hard to not take it personally. And I understand that perspective. But you still have to learn what you're talking about to not take the rejection personally. But it's totally normal to have those moments where you're like, ouch, that did kind of hurt and that, you know, felt personal. But try not to live in that. And that's the difference is that a lot of these men are living in that rejection. They're living in it, including the red pill stuff and the black pill or whatever color pill. Those people are living in those feelings, and that will never, ever get you what you want.

John [00:41:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:47]: You have to view it the way that you're viewing it, or else you've kind of given up on what you're going for. Like, if you live in those negative experiences, you will never reach your goal, which is having a family and someone that loves you. So you have to do that mindset shift in order to get there. And so if you're just living in the rejection and you're just getting more and more angry, you will never get to your end goal. So you do have to learn these things. And two things can be true at one time. Like, it can be a hard experience to go through being rejected all the time. Like men pursuing women and hearing no so much, like you said 99 times out of a hundred. That's a lot. And it's normal to feel a certain type of way about it, but you have the choice on what you do with that feeling. Like, you will have the feeling no matter what, but you train yourself with what you do with that feeling. And that's what's important. And so if you have that feeling and you're just angry and you hate people and you're just negative, you are definitely never going to get a woman by being that way. But if you feel, you know, like, dang, that kind of sucks. I am feeling a little bit, like, down about this. But you're like, no, you know what? I can feel that way, but I really want this, so I'm going to keep going, and I know it'll work out for me in the end. That is what's going to actually get you there.

John [00:43:16]: Exactly. Yeah. You have to have the persistence and perseverance to continue. And just in life, it's a skill that you have to have, because I've been an entrepreneur for a long time, and you don't get what you want most of the time, but you have to keep on going. And then eventually you get it, but it's harder than what you think it is. So that's an important skill to have just in life in general.

Nicole [00:43:39]: So. Yeah, well. And you have to have faith. If that's what you want and you're willing to do what it takes, which is putting yourself out there and taking risks and learning and learning things the hard way, then you will get what you want.

John [00:43:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:52]: But if you're just like, oh, I went and asked one girl or three girls, and they both. They all said no. Everyone's gonna say no. Then. Yeah, everyone will say no. Because you're not even gonna try.

John [00:44:03]: Right. Well.

Nicole [00:44:03]: And you're not gonna come from a place where you actually are, like, growing and learning and wanting to be with somebody now. You just want what you want. It doesn't matter who it is. And a lot of men fall into that. They get like, they go try a few times, they get rejected, and they feel bad, and they're like, well, I don't even want to do this. And then. So they don't. And then that's just pushes them still further in that negative mindset. And then they're just. They blame everyone else instead of taking the accountability to be like, okay, yeah, this sucks, but I'm gonna get through this.

John [00:44:37]: Yeah. And it's. You know, the way I reframe this, too, with guys that I coach is I'll tell them that you have to change what the goal is, because if you go out and you're gonna go and talk to women, and your goal is, this girl needs to like me or she needs to give me her phone number or needs to go home with me, whatever your Goal is you can't control that outcome. And so you're going to feel the feelings of rejection way more often. But if instead your goal is, I'm going to put myself in an uncomfortable situation, and I'm going to remain there because I know that by continually putting myself in uncomfortable situations, that my comfort bubble will grow and I'll become more comfortable in more situations, and that will eventually lead to success or actually getting what I want, then you can control that outcome every time and you can win every time. So you're never rejected it because it's like, okay, I did the thing. What I could do was have the courage to go and approach this girl and talk to her. And that's where I've already won, because I did that. I did the thing that I was in control of. I don't have control over someone else's reactions and how they respond. That's not my business. So you could win every time, and that's what's going to help you to basically overcome rejection and to have perseverance. Because even the same thing, like you said, it's been difficult with sales. I'm learning sales. It's a hard thing. Anyone who does sales, that's very hard. But I have to keep on telling myself, okay, by getting on these calls, by gaining this experience, by doing this hard thing, I'm growing as a person. I've become a lot better. I'm not at the level where I'd love to be at, but I've become a lot better because I face those things and because my criteria initially was I, I have to do so many calls or I, you know, I have to show up to these calls. Right. So it's like, you know, the, the. Whatever happens, happens. But I'm doing the thing that I'm in control of.

Nicole [00:46:33]: Your goal has to be based on you, not someone else.

John [00:46:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:36]: Your goal can never be, I need this from somebody, or I need somebody, or I need them to give me something. Because like you said, you can't control that. Your goal always has to be about you. Like, I will grow from this. I'm doing this because it will make me better.

John [00:46:51]: And that's how you become outcome independent, which is more of an attractive quality anyway, because if a guy goes up and talks to a girl and he's very needy, he needs her to like him. It comes across, whether you say the words or not, it comes across in the way that you present yourself, where if you're outcome independent, you're like, hey, I went and did this. Thing. I'm proud of myself already. Whatever you say, it doesn't. It doesn't actually matter. Like, it's not going to change how I'm. That I'm proud of myself. Then it's outcome independent. Like, if this interaction goes well, great. If it doesn't, there's another girl over there. It doesn't. Like, that's the mentality that you have to have, and that's an attractive mentality that doesn't put pressure on the other person, doesn't come across as needy. Right. And that's the best way to be successful.

Nicole [00:47:36]: That's true. Well, you're a man. So do you feel like we've hit on all the.

John [00:47:40]: I think. I think for the most part, yeah.

Nicole [00:47:42]: Okay, well, then we'll get into the women. I feel like women don't need as much time as well, too. Because really the biggest time that women face rejection is when they're dating a guy and they really like the guy. And then the guy either ghosts or is like, I'm not interested. And that's when women are facing that rejection. Right. And so I feel like women, when they're rejected, they go kind of the opposite. I feel like men go more like angry, like you then sort of vibe, and women cling more. They want the validation of the person that's rejecting them. They want to be the one for the person that is like, no, you're not the one. Yeah, not always.

John [00:48:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:48:28]: And that's definitely not the way that they should handle it either. But just to kind of lay the groundwork of. I feel like how women typically handle rejection, which is not usually. I'm not saying that they can't lash out. There are some women that probably do lash out or they get upset about it too. But I don't think that that's rejection. That's like usually cheating on. That's betrayal. Usually. They normally go, yeah, extreme for betrayal, not rejection.

John [00:48:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:59]: But I think, like I said, there is a difference between betrayal and rejection. Betrayal is expecting somebody that committed to you to follow the commitment and they don't.

John [00:49:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:11]: Rejection is maybe having expectations, but like there you don't get what you want. Essentially the same thing. Like a woman, her rejection is going to be. She wants this man. She's like, oh, I really like him, that he could be the one. And then he doesn't think the same, so he rejects her. He's like, I'm not interested, or this isn't. I don't want to continue, or whatever. So. But from being a woman, and having a lot of women friends, I feel like what I've noticed is that most of the time, women with rejection, they'll still kind of want that man. That's what I'm saying. They still kind of cling to him. They still kind of want his validation, and they still kind of hope that he'll change his mind and come back because they've set their mind to it. So they don't typically go about it in the same way as men, where men kind of, like, burn the bridge. And then they might even, like, try to write women off altogether. Women will kind of cling to that guy and want him to validate her, like, chase that validation, like, cling to it a little bit more. Because also she's just created this thing in her mind that's like, no, he's the one. So I need to, like, keep going, you know, like, even if he's rejecting me, like, maybe I can change his mind.

John [00:50:29]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:50:30]: That's typically where women go with it. And I think women go that way, too, because, like I said, normally, like, they're at least a few dates in. Because I don't feel like women would do this necessarily on the first date unless she's, like, really fantasized about you before. But I feel like she thinks that since you went on a few dates, there's been more established there, so that maybe she can still change your mind. There's still time. But again, that's not the way that women should be operating either, as far as rejection. And so from men, kind of, like you said, the best thing, obviously, is to view it as, like, you know, I learned from this. And, yeah, even though I really wanted to be with this guy, obviously this isn't for me. That's the kind of mindset that I developed when I was dating, is that even if I really liked a guy and he just, like, ghosted out of nowhere, or he was like, I'm not interested. I think that acceptance is the best thing.

John [00:51:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:35]: For people, men and women. But obviously it is more complicated for men, so that's why I wanted to talk more about it. But for women, I think the best thing is acceptance, because their thing is, like, well, maybe I can convince him that I'm the woman for him, or maybe he'll change his mind. I think that accepting that he doesn't want to be with you is actually the thing that a lot of times will have a man also pursue you again. So it's kind of acceptance for women is kind of the same thing. Of like, yeah, the nonchalantness for men.

John [00:52:06]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:52:07]: That is what can bring a man actually back, is not fighting against it.

John [00:52:11]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:12]: You know, is being like, okay, I understand. Like, you're entitled. Like, even if you created this whole fantasy in your head that, like, we're gonna get married and have two kids and, like, you're practicing his last name with your first name, like, even if you've gone full blown down that rabbit hole.

John [00:52:27]: Yeah, it.

Nicole [00:52:28]: You have to accept it.

John [00:52:30]: Right?

Nicole [00:52:30]: Like, you have to like women. I say that because some women can take the fantasy, like thinking about the future to that level. But even though it's going to hurt more if you allow yourself to go that far down the fantasy track, you do have to accept it. And then that is the only way, too, that he will potentially pursue you again. It will never be you, like, trying to convince him or changing yourself to be what he says he wants. Because maybe he told you, like, oh, no, I'm looking for a woman like this. And some women might try to be that woman to be like, hey, look, no over here. You know, like, no, you. You have to accept it. And that is the only way that he could potentially pursue you again. Because that also, like, not that men are looking for, like, they're looking from respect from a woman. Yes. And in some ways that is respecting his choice, which maybe also is what draws him in. I don't know. But there is something about having a boundary or like, you know, if someone says something like that to just accept it and like, honor what they want, that again, is appealing to that person. Like, it makes him be like, oh, like, they didn't fight me on it. They didn't try to convince me otherwise. They just accepted it. And that, I feel like, is the key for women is the acceptance part. Because again, they go down these huge fantasies or they, like, are like, no, well, you're. You're six three and have big muscles and you have a good job. Like, that's checks is all my boxes. What do you mean you don't want to be with me? Like, no.

John [00:54:05]: It's like they're in denial of the rejection.

Nicole [00:54:08]: Right?

John [00:54:08]: It's like. But it's. I mean, like I said again, it's not really rejection, like you turned into rejection, but it's the denial of, of this person's choice.

Nicole [00:54:16]: Right, Exactly.

John [00:54:17]: It can't be the case. Like, you're fighting against it, blowing smoke up your own ass, like, believing that this is not true, when it is true, when someone's told you this thing or it's clear by their actions. I think one part of it, too, that applies to both men and women is the idea that, because I tell this to guys all the time, is that, do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you even if you can have them? That's one standard that you have. One requirement is in order for me to want to be with someone, they need to want to be with me. And so it also flips the table on rejection, because in that case, you're rejecting them because they're not meeting your requirement. Their requirement is that they want to be with you because you don't want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with you. And so if they're showing you that they don't want to be with you, even if they're not saying the words but they're showing you, then, sorry, then they're gone. Because that's not because you have a standard for yourself.

Nicole [00:55:09]: Well, I think that's the other part of the acceptance that I adopted myself as well, too, is that even if I really like the person or whatever, or thought it had potential, I'd be like, you know, if this is what was meant for me, then this would not be happening. And maybe you're not as spiritual as that, but it kind of ties into the same thing that you're saying is that if someone's denying me, I need to accept that and realize that I also don't want to be with someone, that I don't want to convince somebody to like me if they're telling me that they don't like me in that way, like, I don't want to do that, and I don't feel like I should have to do that for the right person. And so I feel like for women, I don't know if this would be beneficial to men, but for women, I feel like it is beneficial to, like I said, accept it and to also view it as it's not for them. Like that, okay? Like, if this guy's not interested in me, then he's not the one for me. And this is not to, like, excuse, you know, not working on yourself and not doing personal development. That's important for both men and women. But I think that the viewing it as, like, that person is not for me because they're telling me they don't want to be with me. And accepting that is the best way for women to handle the rejection from a man. And in that way, because, again, like I said, I feel like they go More towards the clinging to like the trying to prove him wrong. The like. No, like you, like, I can be the woman you want to be, like desperate sometimes. And so. And that's never going to get you what you want. Like, women go more the emotional clingy route and men go more of the angry, aggressive route. And both of those are bad, obviously.

John [00:56:51]: And you can guilt people into, you know, like you could go into a shoe store.

Nicole [00:56:55]: You can. What is it called? Floodlight them.

John [00:56:57]: Yeah. I mean you could go, you could go into a shoe store and you could be a size 10 shoes and you really like a pair of size 6 shoes. And the person is at the shoe store could be like, ah, yeah, this isn't going to fit you. And you can insist and insist and they're like, okay, fine, I'll sell you these size six shoes. And you're not going to put a. You're not going to be able to squeeze your feet into them.

Nicole [00:57:17]: Right. It's not going to be enjoyable. It's not going to be like the experience you want it to be.

John [00:57:21]: So you could convince someone, you could browbeat the hell out of them or floodlight them or whatever it is. And to continuing to date you, like hold them hostage emotionally. Some people do that. Some women do that to guys where they are sometimes to the extreme. They'll threaten to harm themselves or whatever.

Nicole [00:57:38]: Oh yeah, but guys do that as well too.

John [00:57:40]: Yeah. And then you're just holding someone hostage, they don't actually want to be with you, the shoe doesn't fit. So it's not going to be a pleasurable experience. You know what I mean? It's like you can't keep someone locked up in your little dungeon and be.

Nicole [00:57:55]: Like, and you don't want that. That's not the relationship that you want.

John [00:57:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:57:59]: So, yeah, I think again, I. Unless you can think of any. I think that's really the biggest way that women face rejection in relationships is into the dating part.

John [00:58:10]: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I've seen, you know, women act like men at times where they'll get mad or whatever and, and call a guy names or something because he's. He's rejected them.

Nicole [00:58:21]: Yeah. But I think that's the rarity.

John [00:58:23]: It's not as common. It's not, you know, it's more like you said, there maybe there's a little bit of passive aggress. I mean, I've had girls comment on posts and stuff passive aggressively because of whatever, something in the past that they remember for like years down the road. And then show up in some social media post of mine and then post something or whatever. A lot of times women think that by doing that they're going to somehow convince other women to stay away from the sky and then he will figure out that she's the. The one for him or whatever.

Nicole [00:59:02]: That's the most delusional. It's pretty delusional way of getting what you want. Yeah, but so definitely don't go down that. Yeah, but that just shows that the person still cares in some degree. And yeah, they're doing it in the wrong way.

John [00:59:14]: Yeah, but, but yeah, I mean I think that's. I think you. That's mostly the way that women.

Nicole [00:59:18]: Yeah, you need to accept it and realize that that's not the person for you. And I think too that women don't like this solution to the problem because.

John [00:59:28]: I mean you can't go a lot of.

Nicole [00:59:29]: Well, yeah, I think honestly it's more of that Women don't like dating as much like and they should. It should be fun still for women as well. But again it is a different. There's different aspects to it. But I think it's what I've heard from a lot of women that are in like not the best situations or they want to cling to one guy is that they don't want to go on other dates dates. So like they're pushing this with this person and not accepting the reality of that situation because they don't want to go on other dates and that's. And they want to be done and they want to just find their husband or whatever. But you can't live like that and expect again to get what you really, really want. You can get a mediocre or probably less honestly relationship by forcing holding somebody hostage. It's never going to be the perfect relationship that you want. But if you really want a good solid relationship where you're both growing together and working together, then you need to not cling to people that want to leave. Tell them the doors right there, you wish them the best and accept it and then realize that that's not for you. And so you can go out and meet the person you want to be with, but don't ever allow it to keep you stuck to a person or keep you like oh, woe is me. Like the victim mindset. Because there are plenty of people out there. It might take a while to find the person. And same with guys. You might have to talk to 10, 000 women before you find the one that's for you. And women you might have to, like, let the guy go that you thought was going to be the one for you in order to find the right person. Like, they're. There's different struggles here for men and women. But. But the biggest thing is, like, accepting it, not taking it personally, and not allowing it to take you out of the game of life, which is what it is. Like, if you just give up, then you're never going to get what you want.

John [01:01:28]: I think there's one other aspect of it which is in a relationship. So this is sort of the. Actually the Gottman Research Institute. Right. Like, the biggest thing that. Then all of the research that they found was the biggest indicator that a relationship would fail or there's going to be a divorce would be a rejection for the other partner's bids for connection. And so that's the big thing, is to make sure that you never reject your partner's bids for connection. So, for example, if your partner comes up and gives you a hug, you're.

Nicole [01:02:05]: Like, get off of me.

John [01:02:06]: Yeah, stop being annoying. Something like that. They're not going to do it again. They're not. Especially on the sexual side, too. You have to be careful with that because that also ends up becoming an issue. Especially guys might deal with that. I mean, women deal with this too, is the rejection. You should never make your partner feel rejected, even if now's not the time or moment.

Nicole [01:02:26]: Like, have a conversation.

John [01:02:28]: Yeah. Appreciate what their bid for connection or an intimacy and acknowledge it, but treat it in a way that's not going to come across as a rejection of it because that's. That is the quickest way to destroy relationship.

Nicole [01:02:43]: Yeah. No, you're right.

John [01:02:45]: All right, well, that's it for. Unless you have anything else for.

Nicole [01:02:49]: No, I think that's mostly for women.

John [01:02:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:53]: And I think we covered it pretty well.

John [01:02:54]: Cool. All right.

Nicole [01:02:57]: Are we gonna talk about our thing?

John [01:02:58]: Our end. Huh? Our end segment?

Nicole [01:03:01]: Yeah. What was the thing the other night? Oh, because I was concerned, but I wasn't expressing it in the right way.

John [01:03:10]: My manorexia.

Nicole [01:03:12]: Yeah.

John [01:03:13]: Because I lost like £25 in. In two months.

Nicole [01:03:16]: But it's how you were doing it. And like, I was worried about it long term, but I was not coming across in a concerning way. And so you felt attacked and discouraged, but I was just concerned. Again, it was like a miscommunication. Like. But I could see after, you know, when we talked it out for a while, not as long as we normally do, where you felt that way. And that wasn't my intention, but it doesn't matter what the intention was. I was sorry that I hurt you and made you feel that way.

John [01:03:50]: Yeah. And I appreciate that. But, yeah, we didn't. I mean, it was helpful, too, I think, just from my perspective, applying what we had talked about in previous situations where I made sure that I didn't come across as combative or aggressive in.

Nicole [01:04:08]: Oh, yeah, I did get a little aggressive. I said some curse words. I didn't like, call you names, but I did curse.

John [01:04:15]: Yeah, twice. But. But I, you know, but it's been helpful to me to. Because also, even in that situation, I felt like I was able to condense the. It could have been a bigger thing, but because I was able to control my reaction level, it helped to bring it down. Because we're going to have situations just where one of us is going to stumble. And if both of us are strong in general, then when one stumbles, the other one is going to be there to keep things from spiraling into a. So I think that's a good thing that we have those. That we've learned those things. Like you've learned things about how to handle situations and handle things better and I've learned things how to handle situations and handle things better. And so it's like neither of us is going to be perfect 100% of the time. I'm going to make a mistake. I'm having a bad day, I'm under stress, whatever it is, I'm not performing at my best. And then you're filling in the gap with more understanding and vice versa. Some you're gonna be under stress, something's going on with you and whatever, for some reason you're not at a hundred percent. And I'm filling in the gaps.

Nicole [01:05:25]: I mean, I have been stressed. I feel like the holiday season is stressful. Just trying to get everything together. And we've just dealt with collectively stressful things lately. So, yeah, I think it was definitely a part of that, but it's still like, that's not an excuse. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but it. Because I did mess up. But it is always learning experience. And I do appreciate how you handled the situation, and you have done a lot better with that. And I know that it's not easy to do so. And you have been leading definitely by example there, for sure.

John [01:06:03]: Well, thank you. Yeah. Well, good. Okay.

Nicole [01:06:07]: That'S everything.

John [01:06:08]: Wrap it up. All right. So if you want to subscribe and get all the.

Nicole [01:06:14]: Like and subscribe. Yeah, I could even say subscribe like.

John [01:06:18]: And like and subscribe like and subscribe, but go to betterthanperfectpod.com and you can subscribe on there and get the show notes and everything.

Nicole [01:06:28]: Sends you the episodes when they come out.

John [01:06:30]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:30]: Like a full page of, you know, if you can't watch the video, it has like.

John [01:06:35]: Or just notes for description.

Nicole [01:06:36]: Notes. Yeah, Links to things we talk about, all that stuff.

John [01:06:40]: It's actually super useful. Like, if you're. If you really like the podcast, I would encourage you to subscribe there because you'll get all of the show notes and, and the links and all of the things we talk about. You listen to something, watch it, and you're like, oh, I should write that down, or I should go check that out when I get home. But then you don't do it because you forget. Right. So, but if you have this in your inbox, that would be quotes.

Nicole [01:07:02]: You could get tattooed on yourself.

John [01:07:04]: Yeah. Got quotes. Or you can always email us at betterthenperfectpodcast@gmail.com. all right, we'll see you next week.

Nicole [01:07:16]: Bye. We find our way.