John [00:00:00]: If there is someone that is on the more ugly side of life and everyone is like, body positivity, you're fine exactly how you are, and they're pumping up this false image, then that doesn't help the person. I'm not saying that to help them. You call them ugly. You cannot hype it one way or the other way. Both are faults. You cannot be like, okay, everybody has to look like an Instagram model. And you cannot be like, oh, if you're all the way over here, you're beautiful exactly how you are. That's not true either. Beyond the perfect we discovered through our flaws, us, we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:52]: Like the little. What would you call that?

John [00:00:56]: Stumble?

Nicole [00:00:57]: No, it seemed more like a, like, accent on those two words. You were, like, accentuating them.

John [00:01:04]: Accentuation? Yeah, you gotta try different things. So.

Nicole [00:01:08]: Yeah, you gotta emphasize the word emphasize. You emphasize, like, certain words to switch it up.

John [00:01:14]: So this week we're gonna talk about how fitness influencers ruin relationships. Just like the. The whole Instagram culture of a lot of. It's not just fitness influencers, but it's like looks, maxing, Photoshopping, film. Well, AI now, now they don't need Photoshop.

Nicole [00:01:32]: Well, some of it is AI, like, still obvious right now, but eventually it

John [00:01:38]: will be, well, just AI altering the photos. You don't even have to Photoshop. Anyone can just AI and slim the waist, do whatever and it'll look perfect.

Nicole [00:01:47]: And it doesn't give you like six fingers on your hand or something?

John [00:01:50]: No, no, no, I didn't even know that. Yeah, so, yeah, you don't. You can't even tell. You wouldn't even know that if pictures are real, things like that. But. But yeah, so the idea is really to talk about this and it's become. I mean, it used to be a problem that was mostly a female problem with body image and, and. And women, magazines, models. Right. All of this stuff. But it's become a man, a male problem, a young boy problem also now too, with all the. The fitness influencers and six pack abs

Nicole [00:02:22]: and the plastic surgery for guys. Now.

John [00:02:25]: Yeah, yeah, all of that stuff. So where. Where to start?

Nicole [00:02:30]: Well, I mean, maybe at the beginning, like you said. I think it started with magazines.

John [00:02:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:02:36]: And I mean, this was before anyone could get Photoshop, right? Like the editor of the magazine, the photo editors would edit the photos. Right. And then really the only time we saw those things is if you bought the magazine or, you know, because we didn't even have video editing. So like commercials, you didn't really see, like, them altering those things. They still might choose models that were like, skinny or whatever.

John [00:03:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:03:03]: But that's kind of how it started. And then of course, when like, Instagram came out, they didn't have, like the AI filters that started coming out on like, Snapchat and things like that. At first it was just the color filters, but then eventually it did become the filters. And then there started being apps on your phone where you can edit your images on your phone directly where you can, like, whiten your teeth or, you know, all those sort of things. And then, then it turned into the catfishing. Well, catfishing used to be you just stole somebody's photos and past it. But then it turned into, with all the editing software and things like that that everyone had access to. Right. It turned into editing your own pictures so you didn't look like yourself.

John [00:03:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:49]: Or putting a filter on that made you look different than you actually looked. And then I think that's genuinely where it started, at least for women, is that they started. We, like, we started using the filters.

John [00:04:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:03]: And then people, when they looked at the picture with the filter, they were like, dang, I like the way that looks way better. And like, these could, like, change your ey eye color.

John [00:04:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:11]: Like your skin tone, add freckles, like all this stuff. So it's like completely changing how you look.

John [00:04:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:04:18]: And then people see that and they're like, oh, that looks so much better. And it's not really something that you can realistically do. You can't go to, like the, you know, hair salon and have them be like, hey, can you, like, change my eyebrow shape completely? Where it's like up here now? Like, you don't have hair that grows up there. Like, you can't go to the eye doctor and be like, can I? I mean, you can. There's like crazy surgery. There's crazy surgery, but it's insane. But you can't realistically, like, someone, unless they have a bunch of money, can't realistically do these things. So. But now there are turning into things where people are trying to do some of these crazy things as well. But that's also because it. It's slowly gotten worse and worse, right?

John [00:05:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:01]: But I would say that I think that's where really the downfall of everyone's self image who uses social media came from. What for was the filters? Because I even had girlfriends where they would only use filters because they didn't like the way that they looked in a normal photo. And I was like, I, I understand.

John [00:05:23]: Right.

Nicole [00:05:23]: However, if you continue to just strictly use filters, you will never, ever, ever like the way that you look.

John [00:05:30]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:05:30]: Yeah. Like it's a guarantee. Like if you cannot take pictures without this.

John [00:05:35]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:37]: You will continue. It will get worse how you feel about yourself.

John [00:05:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:42]: And I would like to say that some of the, more like natural stuff's coming back. Like you do see some people that like don't use filters and all this stuff. But at the same time, like I said too, it's kind of getting more extreme as well.

John [00:05:56]: Right. And, well, and also if you, if you're like, I don't, I'm not using filters, I'm just showing you all of my flaws. But then you had, you have a badonkadonk because you got a bbl, then it's not really okay. So you don't have makeup on or whatever, you don't have a filter on, but you got an unrealistic curve to your body and that's what people are paying attention to. So it's like, you know, it's all still a game. It's all still trying to make you insecure so that you consume the content so you buy the product. That's what the game is.

Nicole [00:06:31]: Yeah.

John [00:06:32]: And the best way I can explain this, I would say is that. Because what happens is that it becomes the norm when you see all these images, Right. So I remember when I was a kid and before all this stuff happened, right. Because I'm 45 and when I first saw magazine picture. Well, first of all, the magazine covers of the fitness, the male fitness magazines, the dude was not, he didn't, he, he was not. He didn't even look like me. He just had like some, like his arms are a little bit big, is like, you know, he had his shirt off. He was, he didn't have six pack abs. He had, you know, he had some separation in his abs. And you're like, oh my God, he looks so good. Right? But I remember when the first time I saw a bodybuilder and I was, my jaw dropped. I was like, that doesn't even look human. I'm like, how is that even possible? Okay. It was a shocking. I'm like, that is, it doesn't even look human at all. I mean, look at the veins right now I see a bodybuilder and I'm like, ah, yeah, he's, he's kind of small. It's like, you know, you went from this doesn't look human, right? To oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's better. He could. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's not, not that lean or whatever, you know, sorry, not that big. And so that's, that's what's happened. Like, like, you know, our perception, because before Instagram, before we're seeing all of these altered photos and, and all these crazy surgeries and influencers and things like that. If, if a, if a dude was at like 15 body fat, if he doesn't even have like abs, but can, you know, has a, some, you can kind of see, you're like, oh man, this dude is jacked. He's ripped. But now it's like, no, that's not the standard. And the same thing with women before. It's like, okay, the beauty standard has altered because you see all these images and it works. And that's why it hurts a relationship, is because if you are now this is kind of the level that you're viewing because you're seeing more images of people at this level, then you are likely to fall into the trap of judging your partner, right? Like, why don't I have someone that looks like this?

Nicole [00:08:45]: You become more hypercritical, right? Because, like, listening to what you just said, I think about like 90s and 80s movies, right? Everybody looked different right now everybody looks the same.

John [00:08:57]: Yeah, they're all, yeah, everybody looks the same.

Nicole [00:09:00]: Like, and if we keep going this way, we're all going to look very similar to the point of, like, we are going to be so critical because we look so, so similar, right? That like, you're going to be like, oh, well, your teeth shade is.002 whiteness. And I'm looking for.001. You know, like, like that sounds ridiculous, but if you really think about how far we've come already, we're, we're heading that way. We're doing it now. Like you said, like, you know, people are expecting their partner to have fitness level bodies when, if you talk to people in the fitness industry, right, Some of those fitness influence influencers are coming in, not working out, but taking videos and then going to get plastic surgery or going to like, do something else, go get liposuction or whatever to look the way that they do. Not all of them. I don't want to say all of

John [00:09:55]: them, but, but a lot, a lot more than you would think.

Nicole [00:09:58]: A lot of people are faking it, right? In a lot of ways.

John [00:10:00]: Yeah. And it can be, it can be that you're getting surgeries. It can be, it could be the lighting. I mean, lighting is huge, right? Like you can see in our bathroom. I love our bathroom when it's dark, the light, because I can stand in the mirror and step back a few feet and oh, well, all the abs pop out, everything, you know, that's my favorite place to flex. But because the lighting matters, if I stand really close to the mirror right in front of the light, you can't see all of that deficit.

Nicole [00:10:27]: Still have abs?

John [00:10:27]: Oh, yeah. But, you know, but, but even, like, even, even someone like me, right? I mean, how much time do I,

Nicole [00:10:33]: you know, spend flexing in front of the mirror?

John [00:10:36]: Well, working out, like running and lifting and my nutrition, eating protein and, and you know, like, I have a really good physique, but I still don't have like the level of some, some fitness influencer physiques because it's, it's to a very large degree unattainable without. I mean, there's some. You can, you can go and do surgeries and you can have a lot of unnatural substances that you can inject in order to help you achieve that. But the point is that it's like, what's reasonable. A lot of. Even if I were to take my physique, which is probably in the top 99% of men, I'm not trying to brag, but realistically it is, and I were to post online, there'll be a ton of guys that would be like, oh, you're fat, you have love handles. They would give me all of these things as like, oh, your waist to hip, your, your hip raiser, you have wide hips or whatever. They would give me a ton of negative feedback on that when it's like, do you realize this is a, like a 1% top? You know, so again, it's not to say, not to brag or anything. It's just to say that this is how crazy that the standards have become. And that's a serious problem because it's unrealistic that you're going to dedicate your whole life. I like to look good and to be fit and it's something that's just important to me. It's not really so much about the external validation everyone, but for me it's just like I'm going to run because I like doing those things and I like to like, you know, to, to build myself in personal development. But I put a lot of time and, and effort into it. Think about how it's unreasonable to expect your partner to dedicate their whole life to looking good.

Nicole [00:12:33]: Yeah.

John [00:12:34]: Otherwise they don't meet the level that you, you want. You know what I'm saying? And, and that's kind of where it is now, is that the standard has become something that is, is for most people and they're living a normal life unattainable. It's not just about being healthy and, and being fit and not being overweight. It's become to a level that's so unattainable for both men and women that we're, we're judging each other at such a high standard that, and that's also, you know, we talk about this all the time about the, the dating epidemic. The, the, the, the lo. Male loneliness.

Nicole [00:13:03]: The epidemic. Yeah.

John [00:13:05]: Yeah, epidemic. Did what, Did I say something different?

Nicole [00:13:07]: No, no, it, I think it's just the official name is the male loneliness.

John [00:13:11]: Oh, yeah. The epidemic. Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:12]: Yeah.

John [00:13:12]: But why, why is, why is so, so many of the population sexless? Why are people not getting together and having sex and getting. It's because when, when you've got all these women judging their standards this high and you've got all these men that have their standard this high, no one meets anyone's standards.

Nicole [00:13:30]: Right.

John [00:13:31]: Only the top, you know, 10% of both find each other because no one else qualifies. And so that's a problem. That's why our population is dying and no one's having sex is because no one's worth having sex with. It's like it's not a high enough. They're not reaching the bar. Are the relationships not worth staying in? Because, well, they're not super Instagram model hot.

Nicole [00:13:52]: Right.

John [00:13:52]: So I mean, if they give me any kind of crap in the relationship, I'm just going to try and find someone else because they're not even that hot anyway. I saw some, some picture on Instagram and it's not worth, worth working for.

Nicole [00:14:03]: Right?

John [00:14:04]: That's what's happening.

Nicole [00:14:04]: Yeah. No, you're not wrong. And it's unfortunate because everybody's just beating up on everybody at this point. Right. Like, men have always criticized women, but now men are criticizing other men, like you said to even more extreme.

John [00:14:20]: Right?

Nicole [00:14:21]: And then women are criticizing men because they've also, you know, got expectations from all these buff people. But even I think women don't, because I do believe, I still firmly believe that women are less expecting of a man to have six pack abs and huge biceps or whatever. I'm not saying that they're not attracted to that, but I think that they, they aren't looking for that ideal as much as men are looking for that ideal.

John [00:14:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:52]: But I do believe that women attack men and how they look when they're attacked by the men. Right? So like, theirs is kind of. I'm not saying always, but I think that theirs is a more like defensive attack. It doesn't make it okay. But now men, like you said, if you posted it, women wouldn't be on there. Like, wow, look at. Like, no, you could work on this, John. You could. They would be like, you look good.

John [00:15:17]: Right?

Nicole [00:15:18]: But men would be on. Oh yeah, like, exactly. It's not even that great. Like, yeah, and that's what they do to women already. Like, how many times have we posted something in the past? And they'd be like, that girl's a five. And it's like, sure, I don't, I, you can call me a five. But it's like, why did you take time out of your day to comment on a man's profile that his wife is a five?

John [00:15:37]: Right? Well, yeah, well, and, and it's like, and it's just, it's ridiculous because you're a 10. But, but you, like, you don't take it. I mean, when you have a woman that's obviously good looking, you don't be like five. Like, well, it doesn't make any sense about that.

Nicole [00:15:52]: But I know, but it's about how, like, I know now men.

John [00:15:55]: But I'm defending.

Nicole [00:15:56]: You are like, well, I appreciate that. I do appreciate that and appreciate you calling me a 10. But like, I'm just saying that men have always kind of like thrown in those snide remarks. But, and really it's to bring other men down like, because they don't feel good about themselves. Because that's why too, when women post something and a man's in the comments like, you're five on her own stuff, right? She'll like pull up his picture and be like, you're calling me a five. Like, again, it's kind of like a more like defensive. It's a sort of thing.

John [00:16:27]: Quid pro quid, Right?

Nicole [00:16:29]: Yeah, yeah. So it's like. But essentially men are doing the same thing to other men to try to like boost themselves up by bringing someone that's above them down.

John [00:16:38]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:39]: Right. And it's like, because they feel like the pressure that they have to look the best, but they know they don't. So they're going to try to make themselves feel better, right? By tearing down someone that looks better than them. By like pointing out all Their flaws. Right.

John [00:16:55]: Yeah. And you're right in the sense that men judge women more harshly. Right. Women judge themselves and, and you know, to a degree, you know, judge other women. But don't say it necessarily. But. But they don't judge men as harshly. But men self remove themselves from the dating pool.

Nicole [00:17:13]: Yeah.

John [00:17:14]: Because they're like, oh, she'll never like me. Exactly.

Nicole [00:17:17]: I don't have big buff arms and I'm not a chad and I'm not six foot.

John [00:17:21]: They think they're ugly, so they remove themselves from even the. Because they lose their confidence. Right. Whereas it's not women that are causing that for men, it's men causing it for men. And you know, so, so it is a bit of a different dynamic which is kind of like the whole thing that if this whole looks maxing thing has become. Because we used to talk about back in the day and beat those guys, the, the black pill guys, you know, which was I thought was the most most destructive philosophy and I still do. And that was the thing was the black pill guys that were all gloom and doom. They were. I don't look enough women only like chads and all this stuff. But now it's really moved more to looks maxing where you need to explain

Nicole [00:18:05]: that because like I know men listening probably know, but I don't think women know.

John [00:18:09]: Yeah. So look, smacking is this idea that you can do everything that you can to become a quote, Chad or Stacy or whatever. Like everything you can to improve your looks. Because that's the most important thing. Right. And so there's a guy that was really getting popular, but I think after he ran someone over Miami and now I think he's not showing up on the feeds as much. I haven't seen as much of him, but clavicular. He's this 19, 20, 21 year old somewhere around there kid who started taking steroids at 14 years old meth in order to lose weight and to focus and all kinds of stuff. Like a different kind of meth. Like a doctor prescribed meth kind of. But regardless, like the problem was that he, he really was blowing up this whole looks maxing thing. It's been, it's been very widely circulated in the young, young male demographic. Right. So this idea of like, all right, here's all the very carefully studying your face to see what your gold nattle tilt is. Like how if your eyes are tilted down, are tilted up. Right. What is your face ratio? You know what your jawline. Yeah. What do they call it? The go go naddle length Right.

Nicole [00:19:33]: Go naddle.

John [00:19:34]: Right. So like, how long is your, your jaw and the separation and then, you know, your max maxilla. Like, so they're doing. For projection. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, it's golden ratio stuff. But, and, and there's, there's truth to these calculations. That's the problem with it is that, yeah, these are things that plastic surgeons would look at and, and optimize these, these, these things. But young boys are getting obsessed with this idea. And then when they're comparing themselves and they're putting their, you know, their face online or whatever, and then some other boy is rating them and giving them all of these ratings on the different aspects of the ratios of their face, they're like, oh my God, I might as well just not live on this planet. Like, I'm hopeless. My only hope is to like, get surgeries or take steroids or whatever it is in order to, to achieve this look. And so they're even doing things like what they call bone smashing, where they're taking like a hammer and hitting their, their face here in order to cause this bone to grow. To grow. Right? Because when you damage a bone, it tends to create a calcium deposit in order to, to build it up. And, and so in order to like to build up these high cheekbones and things like that. It's insane. Levels, right? Same length limiting leg limb lengthening surgery, right. To gain a couple inches of height. You know, they can't afford jaw surgery. Hey, you can, anyone can get a loan for, you know, whatever, $20,000 and get, and get your jaw surgery or whatever it is. So, so there, there's, there's a lot of stuff that is just, is being in a lot of the stuff. The problem also is a lot of this stuff, it doesn't even work. Yeah, right. So they're selling stuff like, not, I

Nicole [00:21:26]: mean, don't care about that. Not like women are not looking at you and you're like, yeah, the maxilla go nattle angle here is a little off. Never mind, Jeffrey, I don't want to go on a date with you.

John [00:21:38]: But there is a truth to the, like, if you, if you're a man that has striking features and, you know, a top notch physique, you're going to get more attention from women. Of course. So there's truth to that. But that's not. They're making that the most important thing in their life, right? And not realizing that, like, look, a woman can look at you and be like, oh, that guy's hot. But then she meets you and you Say something.

Nicole [00:22:03]: And she's like, never mind.

John [00:22:04]: It's not going to matter. And you're not getting in a relationship with her. And she, you know, and so it's. In the long run, that doesn't really matter. And those things are gonna fade over time for sure, you know, so it's like, there's such a focus on this, but it's become a real danger for young men, this whole looks maxing thing. And like I said, this clavicular guy that they're obsessed with this content. And the problem is if you go and you look at looksmaxing content on your feed, it's gonna send you a ton of that stuff. And you're gonna see all these guys that look like male models that show their before and after transformations. They' six, they went from 16 to 20 and they're like, this is how I did it. And I chewed this gum and I did this.

Nicole [00:22:48]: These exercises, like, 16 to 20, especially. Guys are still maturing.

John [00:22:53]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:22:53]: I mean, in a weird way, I think it. A lot of the looks maxing things is worse for men. Like, I think it's horrible because I feel like as women, even though, yes, like, women will judge other women as well too, but women will also uplift other women and they will hype up other women and they will support other women. Men are not doing that. Like, I don't usually see a guy being like, no, bro, you look good, like, in the comments or something. Like, some people will. I'm not saying that doesn't happen at all.

John [00:23:25]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:26]: But I do feel like men are more critical with other men, like we've been talking about. And they don't really have that community of someone being like, no, bro, you look good. Like, they might have their close friends when you're like, oh, I'm going to the gym. And they'd be like, yeah, you look good. Like, your friends might not. But even guys don't go out of their way to be like, oh, you look hot, bro. Like women do. They'll be like, you look so good, you know, on, like, every picture. And, like, they're not lying. Like, they're supporting their friends. And we understand because we're constantly judged for our body, and we have constantly been judged for our body even longer than now. Men are dealing with it. And so we have developed this kind of support system with girls for other girls. But guys don't have that. And if anything, like you said, especially with the black pill stuff, men are getting more critical of other men. Like, men do not have that. Support from other men. And men are trying to brainwash the other men by being like, women only care about looks.

John [00:24:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:27]: Like, I feel like,

John [00:24:30]: I don't know,

Nicole [00:24:31]: maybe it's because I'm a woman, maybe it's because like, I'm spiritual. Maybe it's a mixture of all these things. But having seeing like a whole community of men, like the black pill or whatever, be like, looks are all that matters. Like, you obviously are lacking. I feel like anytime a man is like, looks all that matters. I'm like, you are so far lacking, like the human experience. If you think how we look is the most interesting thing about ourselves. Right. Like, yes, we have to be attracted to our partner.

John [00:24:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:59]: But there are plenty of people of plenty of examples, not just celebrities, because guys will say it's a status thing. And maybe it is. But there are plenty of normal, real life examples of beautiful women with not so conventionally attractive men.

John [00:25:15]: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:17]: And these guys totally ignore all those things. And so when I hear a guy be like, looks are all that matters. As a woman, I wouldn't touch that man with a ten foot pole because he has like, if he thinks the best thing about him is how he looks and that that's what people value

John [00:25:35]: him to be, like that. Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:36]: Then he will have no insight to what really makes a human valuable.

John [00:25:41]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:41]: And what really makes like people have a deep, meaningful connection. Because it is not looks.

John [00:25:47]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:47]: And like, yes, you can say that looks help you get in the door. Like, exactly like you said, like a attractive man or women will get attention. But that is not. That just gets you the attention.

John [00:25:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:59]: I don't know anybody that would date somebody except a man. No offense.

John [00:26:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:05]: Strictly for their looks.

John [00:26:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:06]: And not for anything else.

John [00:26:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:08]: I don't know anybody.

John [00:26:09]: Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Nicole [00:26:10]: And I don't even know a lot of men personally that would do that. A lot of men act like they would do that.

John [00:26:15]: Yeah. But they're not going to date. But, but sometimes it's just maybe they don't need to date. They just want to get laid. And you know, so, so there's, there's an aspect of that. But, but again, it still comes down to like that emphasis and it's a feminine trait for a man. He, he seems very feminine if he's very obsessed about his looks.

Nicole [00:26:31]: Yeah.

John [00:26:32]: Right. And plus, have you seen Phantom of the Opera or Beauty and the Beast? Right. I mean, grotesque.

Nicole [00:26:37]: Not even that. Like we're all going to get old.

John [00:26:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:40]: No matter how much plastic surgery you do even the, Even the celebrities that can afford it, that have gotten it, sure, they look good, but they still look like an older person. Not like as if they've aged naturally. They look like an older person trying to look young. It's like a different. It's. It's not like they look young. It's like a different genre that we have created.

John [00:27:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:02]: And I don't know, like, I was hoping that the further things got along, the more natural people would want to look. And again, I feel like women are going that way, but I don't think men are, like, with the, with the. No, it's more the killer thing. And like, the looks maxing, becoming even a thing, because that wasn't even a word not that long ago. Or maybe it was, but people weren't talking about it the way that they are now. And so it's just sad to see that. Like, I get that we're entering into an age of AI and like, these things are going to become more accessible to people. And I'm not even saying not to take care of yourself, but to completely alter the way that you look, to try to, like, appeal to the masses. I feel like even just saying that out loud should make you be like, why am I doing this? You know what I mean? Like, it's not for the right reasons. It's not taking care of yourself. It's not self care. It's not like going to get a haircut.

John [00:27:59]: No.

Nicole [00:27:59]: It's not like tweezing your eyebrows. It's not like maintenance things that we do well. It's extremes. Like getting limb lengthening surgery. Like, that is a traumatic experience.

John [00:28:11]: Yeah. Well, and a good example is, like, even, like, from my perspective, right. Like, I like to look good. I like to stick to my diet and run and go to the gym and lift. But a lot of, like, the pride in how I look, how I've built my physique, comes from the work that I put into it. I'm not trying to just get a shortcut to get there. I'm not saying that I won't, you know, use advantages to, to help me, but it's like, no matter what, I've put in a ton of hard work to get to, and that's what I am proud of. Like, I, I like that feeling. And that's where the value comes from. If I just had the thing because I got some surgery, right? It's. It's not as valuable. You know what I mean? That's, that's, that's the thing about It. And you know, like, just to see how messed up our brains are, you know, the default should be if. Without all of the, the stuff that we've seen, if just any, any man and any woman, you know, just who's not overweight, just like if we just. With no makeup, you should be naturally attracted to most people.

Nicole [00:29:12]: Right.

John [00:29:12]: Like that's like, yeah, okay, overweight and you know, but just normal level of fitness, normal level of body fat. I know that as a society we've gotten fat and, and that's excuse. But like the default wiring for the human brain, how we should be. Right. Is that you'd find a lot of people attractive. A lot of people could be compatible mates from metaphysical attractive, assuming that they're just a standard normal person, no makeup, no alterations, and they're in reasonably good physical shape, that you should have that attraction. The fact that we don't have that is, is. Is how polluted our brains have become.

Nicole [00:29:50]: Yeah.

John [00:29:51]: Which again, which. If you think that's not going to affect your relationship, it is. It is. If. If you are looking at things so superficially and judging yourself so superficially, you're going to judge other people superficially as well. It's really hard to escape that. And so that is going to make you not try as hard in the relationship. That's going to make you more picky on things that don't matter nearly as much in their relationship. And that's going to cause all kinds of problems and temptations. Right. And even it goes into the whole porn thing of seeing naked bodies and seeing these things that is desensitizing you to what you should. Because you should be able to look at your wife or your husband or your partner and be attracted to them. You should be able to see them naked and be aroused by that. And if that's not happening, it's because of all the stuff that you've put into your. Your brain that's making it where that's not a sufficient stimuli anymore. Right.

Nicole [00:30:52]: It has to be the extreme version that you see in a lot of that stuff.

John [00:30:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:56]: That gets you going. When it's supposed to be a normal human body.

John [00:31:01]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:31:02]: Completely modified with surgery body.

John [00:31:05]: Exactly. And that's what the big problem is, that it does cause problems in relationships. And especially when the comparison of people thinking that they can get better, they can do better, or even just they meet someone online and they're looking at their best Instagram photos and that's not the reality.

Nicole [00:31:26]: Right.

John [00:31:26]: You know, and maybe you start a relationship with that person and you're like, well, that's, that's not. Oh, yeah, of course they put their best photos on online. But it's because now your, your brain is so wired to be so expecting

Nicole [00:31:39]: that, Expecting that high level that no one can attain at all times.

John [00:31:43]: Right. And that's why it's better to shield yourself from this. So the best thing to do is like. And you know, obviously, like, I've unfollowed all, but, you know, for, for a long time when we first got together, unfollowed all. Any women that I was following that. And you know, what you should do in a relationship is you should not. You should unfollow, not look at the, the pictures, the fitness pictures or whatever, modeling pictures, whatever, of, of the opposite sex. Like, you shouldn't be doing that because that is going to cause you problems in your relationship. You can be like, okay, well, I'm not messaging them. I liking their photos. Yeah, but the fact that you're seeing that stuff is going to cause some amount of dissatisfaction over time.

Nicole [00:32:29]: Yeah. No, you're not wrong. Yeah, it's. I mean, I feel like people get mad when you try to promote people, like, loving themselves the way that they are, because people will be like, oh, well, whatever people want to do with their bodies. Which, like, that is true. I can't control what you do.

John [00:32:53]: Right.

Nicole [00:32:54]: Like, so that is true. However, there are plenty of people that have had plenty of plastic surgeries who have stated that they still don't feel happy with themselves. Right. And I guess that's my thing is like, I hate the promoting on both sides of plastic surgery and like, altering yourself to that level when that's not going to make you feel better. And like, same with like, sure, like, if these guys are getting these crazy surgeries, women might come up to you, but if you're not an attractive person on the inside right now, you're just gonna be attractive. And now no one wants you. And would you rather be unattractive and no one wants you and have something to blame on it.

John [00:33:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:40]: Or attractive? And your whole thing was that it's all about looks and still no one wants you. You know what I mean? Or they, they really want you. You feel like they don't really know you.

John [00:33:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:50]: Because even if you derive your sense of self from your looks, you're gonna lose that, like I said, eventually.

John [00:33:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:57]: And if you feel like someone's staying around for looks only.

John [00:34:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:02]: You are not going to have any sort of security in your life.

John [00:34:05]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:34:05]: Because again, if you get Old.

John [00:34:07]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:07]: And you get plastic surgery when you get old, you still look old.

John [00:34:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:11]: Just like you're trying to look young. Like any older person I see with plastic surgery, even if they look good, you know how old they are.

John [00:34:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:19]: And they don't look 20 again.

John [00:34:21]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:21]: They just look like they're 60 with a tight face.

John [00:34:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:27]: So, like, again, I'm not trying to be mean and I'm not even trying to be critical.

John [00:34:31]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:32]: I'm just trying to say that we need to stop being so critical. Because you see people like Pam Anderson, Right. She's. She's letting herself age naturally and she doesn't wear makeup in anymore.

John [00:34:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:45]: And like Sarah Jessica Parker, again, aging naturally, like not doing any of the plastic surgery or whatever. And people, like, hate on them so hard.

John [00:34:56]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:56]: But they are the most impressive to me because as a woman, granted, the men are probably like, they look old.

John [00:35:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:04]: But they are. They obviously know what the real meaning behind this life is. And it's not looking Pamela Anderson. Do you know how many people had her on their wall when she was younger? And she's choosing. Choosing to age this way.

John [00:35:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:21]: She has a ton of money. She could go and try to look like she was at 20 years old if she wanted to, but she realizes that that's not what is important in life. And it's sad to see all these guys that are brainwashing these younger men.

John [00:35:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:37]: Into thinking that that's everything.

John [00:35:40]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:35:41]: Because the sad thing is, is I hope more women end up like Pam Anderson, but they will not have men to be with if these men are so focused on looks. Not only women's looks, but their own.

John [00:35:54]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:54]: That, like you said, they're taking themselves out of the game. When a woman like that just wants a good man, a good man inside, she doesn't really care what he looks like.

John [00:36:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:03]: Like, again, I'm not trying to say that people aren't attracted to other people and then that doesn't play some sort of role.

John [00:36:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:11]: But I feel like when you mature and you really try to understand this human experience.

John [00:36:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:18]: You should get to a point where you realize that how you look is the least interesting thing about somebody as a person.

John [00:36:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:25]: Honestly.

John [00:36:25]: And. And there's. There's a balance between the two because it's like, there's also like the whole boss body positivity movement where it's like, look, you don't want to be on too far on either side. You don't want to be hypercritical of everything, but Also, you don't want to be like, when someone's clearly overweight and they don't look good, be like, oh, yeah, no, you look great. It's like, no, like there's, there's like a, there's a middle ground where it's like, there's some honesty, but it's not hypercritical. You know what I'm saying is because it doesn't help people to, to encourage them that, oh, you can just eat whatever you want and look like whatever, and that's. And it doesn't matter. You're just beautiful however you are. That's not true either. Right, but it's also not true that you have to look like an Instagram model. Like there's like a line in the middle which is, is, is where we need to be. I mean, in order to.

Nicole [00:37:16]: People are beautiful the way that they are. I think they're not healthy.

John [00:37:19]: Well, no, they're not, they're not beautiful the way that they are though, because, like, externally they're not. Like, if you're, if you're grossly overweight, you're not going to be looking good. It doesn't matter what you think about. You can still have a positive self image about yourself as a person, but if you don't recognize those things, then you're not going to change those things. And yeah, there is the health.

Nicole [00:37:39]: Is that traditionally beautiful? Is that what you're saying?

John [00:37:43]: Just beautiful at all? Like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what, what the people that you're attracted to that you're trying to attract think that's what it is. Right? Like that's, that's what matters. It doesn't matter what value you place on your looks. Right. You know, if you rate yourself as a 10 when you're a 4, like,

Nicole [00:38:03]: it doesn't matter that you, that's how you're viewing it. Like, because if I see somebody that yes. Is like, not healthy as a woman, that's another woman. Like, I can think that they're beautiful, but I'm not attracted to them. Like, I'm not like their target demographic. Like, I think they're beautiful in their own way. I think that. Well, yeah, but that's healthy.

John [00:38:25]: Yeah, but that's. It's not really true though. They're not, they're not beautiful in their own way. They don't. There's people that don't look good. Right? Like, can we be honest and say that that's true?

Nicole [00:38:36]: I mean, I don't Know, I think that looks are subjective.

John [00:38:39]: No, no, but it's not. There's people that don't look good. Right? Like just period, like we have to be totally honest in order to. Otherwise everything that, that we're saying is worthless if we can't be totally honest. Right. Again, it's not, I'm not judging a specific person, but we can objectively say that there's people that are below average looking. Objectively.

Nicole [00:39:00]: Okay, I wouldn't say that. Okay. I like, not conventionally attractive, but no,

John [00:39:06]: the truth is that they're below average looking. They're not good looking. Like there are people that fall into that category. I mean, that is true. You can't deny that because you can't say that there's people that are good looking if you can't say there's people that are ugly. There are people that are ugly. That is true. Right now. Can some of those things be fixed? Yes. Can some of those things not be fixed? True. Okay, but you see, what I'm saying is you can't get rid of the hyper fixation on the artificial inflation of what people should look like unless you can be honest and say that there are people that are ugly.

Nicole [00:39:37]: I feel like that's why this has gotten so bad.

John [00:39:41]: The. It's what's got so bad.

Nicole [00:39:43]: People who feel like they're ugly and people say that they're ugly that are trying to fix it.

John [00:39:48]: But there's. But the thing is, is that what you have is you have people that are normal that are being told that they're ugly or that are feeling like they're ugly and they're feeling they have to be all the way up here. But you're having other. On the other extreme people who are over here who are ugly being told, oh, you're beautiful as you are, and they don't believe anything either. And there's no way that they're going to when they get to here. They're going to believe that they're still here because people are telling them bullshit. That's not true. Right. So the real thing is to be honest. What is the honest truth is that, okay, not everyone has to be Instagram fitness model, supermodel, okay? You can be somewhere in the spectrum and still be a good looking person and still have a successful relationship and have people be attracted to you. Right? And the other part of the reality is that if you are far over here, you need to understand that, yeah, you have. Maybe it's because of your weight or maybe it's just because of Genetics or something. That's messed up. And maybe there's some things that you can do to move more towards that middle. Or maybe you have to accept those things and move on with those things. But the truth is always going to be beneficial.

Nicole [00:41:05]: I would never tell someone that they're ugly.

John [00:41:07]: There's no need to tell someone that. There's no need to tell someone that.

Nicole [00:41:10]: But you want me to tell you that I think people are ugly, but I don't. I would never call somebody ugly. I would say that I'm not attracted to them, right? But I would never call somebody ugly. Even in my mind, I have never thought that person is ugly. I've thought, I'm not attracted to that person.

John [00:41:26]: There's no need to call someone ugly. There's no need to call.

Nicole [00:41:29]: Then how do they know that they're ugly? You're, like, making it seem like I have to say that someone's ugly for you to, like, prove that that's reality.

John [00:41:37]: They know that by. By not hyper. Inflating the opposite viewpoint. If there is someone that is on the more ugly side of life, which there are, right? And everyone's like, body positivity. You're fine exactly how you are. And they're. They're. They're pumping up this false image, then that doesn't help the person. I'm not saying that to help them. You call them ugly. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that you cannot hype it one way or the other way because both are false. You cannot be like, okay, everybody has to look like an Instagram model. And you cannot be like, oh, if you're all the way over here, you're beautiful exactly how you are. Like, that's not true either. And the reason why that's so important is because if I feel like you're lying to me, just like we talked about the coach analogy, right? If I'm a coach and you hire me to coach you, and you're like, I want to get in shape. I want you to help me work out, make me do these workouts, and then you come up to me and you're like, I don't feel like working out today. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine. Then you're actually good. Like, it's fine. It's not a big deal. You can work out tomorrow, right? That's not a good coach because it doesn't help me, right? If. If I'm going to be helped, I need to understand the truth, right?

Nicole [00:42:58]: The coaches telling you that because you're saying, don't call people that.

John [00:43:01]: You don't have to call someone ugly. But when you're saying don't promote it, don't promote that. Like, like an unrealistic body positivity in the negative. Don't promote an unrealistic body positivity in the positive. Right? Don't promote that. You have to be a chad, but don't also promote that if you are, you know, if you're not looking good, you're overweight and whatever, that you're just as beautiful as everyone else. Because that's not. Like, again, you don't need to go and tell someone that. But promoting either of those things is destructive because it, it erodes trust. This person over here, they know that they're over here, right? If you tell them false information and hype them up, they don't trust you. They don't trust anyone. Because then when they actually do, let's say that someone was grossly overweight and everyone's hyping them up and telling them that they're beautiful exactly how they are, and then they lose some weight and they get over here, and then people are like, oh, wow, you look so good. They don't believe it anymore. Because when I was over here, you told me that, like, it doesn't make any sense. You see what I'm saying? And then what's more likely that person is now they're going to go to the extreme and feel like they have to be over here because they're like, I still don't believe it. I still don't believe it. Nothing is going to make them believe it. That's why it's. It's negative to tell people false information. Right? Like, we have to have a realistic view, which is that most people are going to be average, and average is good enough.

Nicole [00:44:25]: I agree with you. I think, though, that just even talking about people's looks, I don't like that.

John [00:44:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:44:34]: Because that has nothing to do with me. Like, I don't. I don't view it in this way that you're talking about. Like, like I said, I view it as, like, you're attractive looking to me or you're not. And plenty of people that I don't find attractive. Other people I know find, attract, for sure.

John [00:44:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:50]: And so that's not. I feel like the way you're describing it just makes it seem like it's all of our responsibility. Whereas I feel like it's nowhere near my responsibility. Like, like how other people look is not My responsibility, because I'm not on, like, the, the amount of, like caring about people's looks is that if my friend posts a cute picture, I'm gonna be like, you look cute.

John [00:45:14]: Right? Exactly.

Nicole [00:45:15]: I'm not on anyone's posts like that. I don't know, like some fitness influencer and being like, wow, nice bod. And I'm also not on, like, someone else, I don't know, being like, you look amazing when, like, they're talking about that they don't feel the best. You know what I mean? Like, I think.

John [00:45:34]: Look, let me put it this way. There's two types of destructive content, right? There's looks, maxing content, black pill type of content that's all the way over here. And there's super body positivity content that's all the way over here. Both of them are destructive. You see what I'm saying? Because both of them are creating a false narrative. They're not true. They're creating unrealistic expectations in one direction or the other direction. Because, look, objectively a guy. Let's take a guy, let's not even judge a woman. Let's take a guy that most people would rate as a one. Okay? Again, you're going to have to be really, really, you know, have a lot of probably deformities and stuff to be a one. But there's, there's people that would fall into that category or severely overweight, right? If that guy has an unrealistic expectation and does not realize the reality of his situation, he's going to live life the wrong way.

Nicole [00:46:24]: But if he has deformities, that's not anything he can change.

John [00:46:28]: But it's still reality. It's still reality and you still have to recognize the reality for, like, not

Nicole [00:46:33]: encourage somebody because they were, of course.

John [00:46:37]: But they still need to understand reality. That's, that's.

Nicole [00:46:40]: So how am I supposed to do that?

John [00:46:42]: I guess by not creating content that is extreme body positivity, telling people lies.

Nicole [00:46:49]: So it's not about me, it's about them. Like, they need to stop creating the

John [00:46:53]: content, whoever creates the content. That's what I'm saying. It's like people need to not create content that is extreme on this end or extreme on that end.

Nicole [00:47:02]: Okay, so you're putting it on the people. Because the way you described it before, you're putting it on like me or someone else encouraging it. So that's why I'm confused.

John [00:47:13]: Encouraging, encouraging, negative body positivity comment content that's not accurate, right?

Nicole [00:47:20]: Okay, so a deformed guy posts this thing, I'm supposed to say nothing to him because he needs to know that he's ugly and people aren't going to pay attention to him.

John [00:47:27]: No, no, I'm saying not to promote content that gives a false information to people either in the positive or negative direction. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's like it's more of kind of what you're saying, which is not to focus on the looks because that's not the important thing. But a person needs to understand. Let's say that you had someone that was grossly overweight, right? And they could be over here and in the really good looking, you know, and, and, and they, but, but they're posting stuff and everyone's like cheering them on. They're like, oh, you look good exactly how you are. Like body positively. They're consuming all this content that is like it doesn't matter at all what you look like. It doesn't influence like you're beautiful exactly how you are. That's going to hurt them because I'm not saying they need looks maxing extreme content like you have to be a chad. But that content that they're consuming is hurting them because it's preventing them from having the, they're thinking that, that, that they're just going to walk through life just like everyone else when that's not the reality. And so if they understand the actual reality then they might make some changes in their life that they could improve.

Nicole [00:48:38]: And don't you think those people genuinely don't know that?

John [00:48:41]: It's, it's that like you do you think that. Okay, let me ask you this question. When guys see this looks maxing content and a guy, let's say that he's a decent looking guy, above average, good looking and he sees content where guys are like, oh, you have to have the gonadal tilt and your jawline and he puts his rating, his face rating online and in reality he's like an eight. To most women would say he's an eight. But then all these guys online tell him he's a four. You think he doesn't really know that he's an eight. He doesn't, he thinks he's a four. He's bullshitted by why?

Nicole [00:49:18]: Because he listens to guys.

John [00:49:19]: Because he listens to the content, the message, the society people that are saying this. When people are in the body positivity cult, it's the same as being in the looksmaxing cult. They're both destructive, they're both creating false Narratives, they're both brainwashing people in a direction that does not help them. That's what I'm saying. Because you have to have an objective view of reality in order to change reality and operate in that reality. Anything if you're blowing smoke up your ass or you're, you're, you know, or, or you're falsely like being harsh on yourself, either one of those is not optimal.

Nicole [00:49:52]: I guess my thing is like, as a woman, there's plenty of people that will give you compliments and you still don't believe them. And so I find it very hard to believe that you genuinely think that these people who are lower on the attractiveness level don't already know that they're attractive, don't already feel that, and you think that they're just going to instantly get confidence from people telling them you're beautiful. Yeah, because I don't think that's how it works.

John [00:50:17]: They're deceived. They're deceived. Just like I said. I just gave you the perfect example of a guy that's good looking and thinks that he's ugly.

Nicole [00:50:24]: Yeah, but that's because he's also insecure. That's what I'm saying. The people who you're talking about are on lower level of attractiveness. They have to have some insecurities as well. Like it's like, not like they're not there. And I don't think that a few positive comments are going to override that. Just like the guy who's an 8, if he's being told he's an 8, but then some random dudes tell him he's a 4. Like that, if he believes those dudes, right, rather than the other people that are probably closer to him that aren't strangers, then he's more insecure than anyone realizes.

John [00:51:01]: But you have to understand, these are cults. There's a looks maxing cult, There's a body positivity cult. They're cults because it's groupthink, because they're like, it's segmented social media algorithms send you the content that reinforces this idea. And then you think that everybody thinks this. You think that everybody objectively believes this about you and that this is the truth. When this is not the truth and this is not the truth. The actual truth is what sets you free.

Nicole [00:51:27]: That's what, which I feel like is stop caring about your looks to this level.

John [00:51:32]: To that level.

Nicole [00:51:33]: Exactly.

John [00:51:34]: Average is definitely good enough. You know what I'm saying? That's how it's supposed to be right? That's the reality of the situation. Like I said, without all this brainwashing, if you take normal man and normal women, they're going to be attracted to each other because most people are average, right? That's what average means.

Nicole [00:51:51]: Even like the average. Honestly, I'm not trying to be controversial. Yeah, but I think when you get rid of all this stuff, including average, right? Like if you don't have these, if you're not chasing these ideals, because I think that if you're chasing like someone that's perfect, plastic surgery wise, you're still in this matrix of looks, right? But I think the second you get out of it and you genuinely are just attracted to who you're attracted to and you stop trying to make sense of it, you stop trying to be like, oh, it's because, you know, I need a guy that's 6:3, has perfect abs and like, his teeth better be really white and he better have no nose hairs in his nose. Like, that's just, that's extreme. Like, and it's kind of ridiculous because also, like, you can come across somebody that you are attracted to that fits none of those things, right? But if you're so hooked on looks, you're not going to date that person because you're like, oh wait, well, he doesn't look like I'm attracted to him. And like, I would date him, but he doesn't look like what I said I wanted, so maybe I shouldn't, you know what? Like that, that's what I'm trying to say is that like all of it, like, I don't even like the word average because like, because then that's still putting people in this box when it should just be like, I'm attracted to her, I'm not attracted.

John [00:53:15]: But, but here's the reality of the situation, because I do agree with you, but the reality situation is you don't get to choose what the market demands, right? You don't get to choose, like, let's say that you open up a store, right? If you want to make money from the store, you can't just sell whatever you like in that store. You have to sell what the customer wants. And so the customer in this case when it comes to attraction is the opposite sex or same sex if you're, if you're gay or whatever, you know, lesbian. But, but the point is, is that whatever customer you're trying to attract, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what you think. It matters what they think. Now at the looks maxing side it's way ridiculous. Like you're, you're over, over assuming what the customer, the customer is not asking for, for this love for a frickin private yacht. That's, you know, they just want a boat. And you're like, I need a private yacht. But at the same time the customer, if they want a boat, they don't want like a raft with a hole in it. So you see, what I'm saying is like you, you do have to have some sense of this. You can't be like, oh, looks don't matter at all. Because they do. They do, obviously. Like, because you're not, you know, you're gonna have a lot less dating options if you're, if you're, if you're very unattractive. You don't care about how you look at all. Right? However, it's not to this extreme level. They're not asking for a yacht. And so that's why it is important. But it's not the only thing and it's not the most important. And that's why I said average is good enough. It's not, it's not meant to be a negative thing. It's just meant to be like all most people are looking for is a boat. Like, yeah, we've inflated now where because of social media and fitness influence and stuff that more people are like, I don't need the super yacht, but I want the, the, the baby. Yeah. And it's like so, yeah, so they're, you're being judged more harshly. And, and, and we have to understand that's the problem is that we need to bring things down back to the boat level. Okay. But it doesn try and like pretend like it's the, the raft with the holes in it level, you know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:55:13]: But I, I guess I just, I understand what you're saying. I guess I just feel like that's kind of implied like, because it sounds like you're just saying like you think it's take care of yourself. Which includes trying to be healthy and like hygiene.

John [00:55:27]: Right?

Nicole [00:55:27]: Like appropriate grooming that everybody has. That just seems like logical.

John [00:55:34]: There are situations where let's say someone has a really messed up, like genetically a hooked nose that just is huge and hooked or for a woman especially, right? Like for a guy having a bigger nose isn't as big, but like a severely deformed nose, getting plastic surgery probably might be the right choice for that person because it's going to greatly improve their life and greatly improve their looks and move them up to a Level where they're going to have a better life. But look, if you're an average looking guy getting a bunch of plastic surgery, or even an average looking woman to get a bunch of plastic surgery so you can try to be super yacht, that's not good and that's not healthy. You see what I'm saying? There are instances, like if you have a child and they have a cleft lip, right, you're not going to be like, oh, I'm not going to get them surgery to fix that thing. Right? You're going to be like, look, if I let them live their life with a cleft lip, they're still a good human being, but it's going to objectively make them less attractive, which is going to hurt their life. And so you do the kind thing and get the surgery done so that they can look more on the average, which is what I'm saying.

Nicole [00:56:35]: Which of those things are different? Like, but when you're like body positivity, I don't think of those things.

John [00:56:41]: Yeah, but, but it, it's related to those things because you could say the same thing with weight. If you have someone that's grossly overweight and they keep on getting the wrong message that it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't like you're beautiful no matter how much you weigh. That's not really true. Not in the system, not. Not in this, in the society where you are trying to sell a product and you need someone to buy that product. Like, you're not going to have anyone buying your product.

Nicole [00:57:06]: That's slightly untrue because there are definitely guys that are attracted to bigger women.

John [00:57:10]: There are, but I'm just saying that it greatly limits the cost to be

Nicole [00:57:14]: healthy, which is like, what I'm trying to say is like, I just thought that was like a given, that we should all be working towards being healthier and just grooming like we naturally would. Not these extreme things.

John [00:57:27]: It's like, it's like even, even, like you could take height for a guy, right? If a guy is five two, look, he's gonna have a hard time. It's true.

Nicole [00:57:36]: So he has to get his knees done.

John [00:57:37]: It doesn't mean that he has to get his knees done. I don't think, I think that kind of surgery is. But, but if people are pumping him up and being like short king, it doesn't matter at all. Women don't care about this. It doesn't matter. That's not true. That's not true. He just needs to be Prepared for life. It doesn't mean that needs to stop him. You know what I'm saying? But. But getting an unrealistic viewpoint is not healthy either.

Nicole [00:58:00]: But I guess, like, okay, to that example, like a guy that's five two.

John [00:58:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:05]: I wouldn't. Like. What I would say to that guy is that there are plenty of women under five feet, for sure.

John [00:58:10]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:58:11]: I would not say, like, oh, it's fine, whatever. Like, because that's not even. I would just be like, there's plenty of women that are shorter than you.

John [00:58:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:58:20]: So it's not like there are still options.

John [00:58:22]: Exactly. It's not.

Nicole [00:58:23]: So, like, I guess that's the thing is, I guess you're. I'm not connecting because even if I followed an influencer who I thought was beautiful and maybe she's on a weight loss journey or whatever, I would just be like, good job. Like, like on your. Working towards your goals.

John [00:58:38]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:58:38]: I wouldn't be like, right, like, it's fine. Don't do it. Like, go eat the ice cream, whatever.

John [00:58:45]: Other people do do that because they don't want to. They want to believe a false narrative so that they don't have to do the work. But I love the idea of being like, oh, that's great. Go after your goals. You're making great progress. That's awesome. Right? Not even comedy on the looks, but comedy on the work that they're putting in to improve themselves. I agree with that 100% because I

Nicole [00:59:04]: think we should be supportive. I don't think we should be calling people ugly or be like, yeah, you look horrible, or, like, not saying anything because we don't want to, like, promote that.

John [00:59:13]: Like, we just, like, don't want to be in either. Cole, you don't want to be extreme looks, maxing and extreme body positivity. Like, it has to be objective reality because people appreciate objective reality. That's what helps people the most. Again, if someone. If someone is paying me, like, for example, for coaching, I'm going to give them an honest assessment of where they're at, because that's what they need. If someone's not paying me, I'm not going to just volunteer my information and be like, oh, you could lose some weight, or whatever.

Nicole [00:59:42]: That's what a lot of men are doing.

John [00:59:43]: Yeah, I'm not going to. That's not healthy. That's not good. But if I had a coaching client that was paying me money and he's like, why can't I get women? And he's like, £400. I'm not going to be like, well, maybe you should get a haircut. Or like, it doesn't matter. I'm going to tell him the truth. I'm going to do it in a kind way because I care about him, I love him, I want him to succeed in life. But I'm going to be like, dude, you're 400 pounds, you're overweight. That's the biggest thing that's stopping you. Let's get you on a diet. Let's get you down. And you will have a lot better options. You can stay that way if you want to. But I'm just telling you that this is what is going to be more attractive if you want to have more options. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, that's all I'm saying is that we have these cults that are look smacking where it's so extreme. Everyone needs to be a super yacht. And we have other cults that are just like rafts with holes in it that. That's just as good as a super yacht.

Nicole [01:00:32]: Yeah.

John [01:00:32]: Those things are not true. Like we as a human, you know those things aren't true. But you can be, you can be cajoled into believing it if you subscribe to that cult because you listen to the thing that you want to hear. And so if, if guys are consuming this looks maxing content and they want to believe that women only are attracted to super. Yeah. Why do what you would be like? Well, why would, why would a man want to believe that? Well, because he hasn't had success with women, so he wants to blame it on something.

Nicole [01:00:57]: Right.

John [01:00:58]: And, and why would this person over here that has the raft in a hole in it want to believe that looks don't matter at all? And you can be £500 and it's not and no one's going to care and.

Nicole [01:01:05]: Because they want to believe it's not their fault.

John [01:01:07]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:01:08]: Yeah, I know.

John [01:01:08]: That's why the truth is important.

Nicole [01:01:10]: Everybody just needs to stop obsessing over looks. Like I said, like, it's gonna get to a point where we can all look the same.

John [01:01:19]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:20]: So it's not even. I don't think. Hopefully, I don't think people would do that. I think hopefully we'll go back to all looking like different people. Like unique versions of ourselves. Like we're brought into this world.

John [01:01:33]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:33]: Like. And again, I don't see anything wrong with. Like, if you wanted to get plastic surgery to fix a deformity, sure, that's different. But like this hyper Fixation on all of it is just exhausting because, again, it's the least interesting thing about somebody is how they look, because especially now, right? They don't even look that way.

John [01:01:58]: Exactly. Yeah. And. And it's like, look, when I'm standing in the mirror and flexing at night, right? It's like, I like to see what I'm seeing for myself, you know?

Nicole [01:02:08]: I mean, there's no question about it.

John [01:02:12]: Like, I'm obsessed.

Nicole [01:02:13]: I'm waiting for you to kiss the mirror.

John [01:02:14]: Exactly. But. But you see, I like it for myself.

Nicole [01:02:18]: I know not.

John [01:02:19]: Because, like, obviously I want to look good for you. Right. But I'm not like, oh, if I look so much better, she's gonna be so much more attracted to me. You know what I'm saying? Or, like, I need to have all these pictures on Instagram. Like, I don't even. Hardly even post at all anymore. You know? Like.

Nicole [01:02:33]: Like, no thirst traps.

John [01:02:35]: But. But. But the point is, is that, like, that's fine, but I'm not in the market. If I were in the market, then I would have to pay attention to what the market wants as well, right? For me, at this stage of my life, I don't need to worry about the market at all. I care about how I look because I like it. Because I like to see the progress. I like to see the abs. I like to admire myself. But you have to have a grounded reality, and that's what the whole thing is. The unrealistic beauty standards have created a society where we have. Have everyone thinking that they need the mini yacht. Yeah. Or. And some people think they need to be the super yacht. Otherwise, you know, and. And that's not good. And that's where things are moving more. I think the body positivity is not, as, you know, now, I think the look. You know what killed body positivity? Ozempic. Because. Because there were all these people that are like, oh, you look beautiful exactly how you are. Like, fat is beautiful or big is beautiful or whatever. Right? And then those same exact people, celebrities that were promoting the body positivity as soon as Ozempic came out and Tirzepatide and whatever they got on Ozempic and Mounjaro, right? And they lost all this weight, and they're like, look at me now. Look how good I look. And it's like, well, wait a minute. Like, a couple years ago, you were just like, body positivity.

Nicole [01:03:55]: That kind of proves my point exactly. What I said to you earlier is that you think that those people don't believe that they. They are still insecure. You just proved my point that the second they could take something to fix that problem, they did. No matter how many people told them that they were beautiful the way they are.

John [01:04:10]: Right. But they deceived other people. They deceived other people by saying that

Nicole [01:04:15]: they did it naturally to.

John [01:04:17]: By saying that it's fine. Oh, that you're just as beautiful. It doesn't matter. Yeah, but it does.

Nicole [01:04:22]: I mean, it still goes back to.

John [01:04:23]: It doesn't matter.

Nicole [01:04:24]: I still feel that way.

John [01:04:25]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:04:26]: It's not even really working.

John [01:04:27]: It's like. Like it's not that looks don't matter. They do, but they don't matter as much as this, and they don't matter as little as this.

Nicole [01:04:37]: They only matter that you're attracted to your partner.

John [01:04:39]: Right.

Nicole [01:04:39]: Period. That's the extent. Like, do you want to kiss them or do you have the ick?

John [01:04:43]: Right. Exactly.

Nicole [01:04:45]: Like, that's the only level. And I like, again, it's. People are attracted to way different types of people. Some people like the plastic surgery look. Some people don't. I mean, I think like you said, if we kind of went back to baseline, more people would be attracted to how we come out of the womb and develop into adulthood. Because a lot of the extremes have made it so people aren't as attracted to how we are naturally born to look.

John [01:05:15]: Right.

Nicole [01:05:16]: But, you know, that's ultimately like, you don't know what someone's going to be attracted to. So all that matters is who you're attracted to. Are they attracted to you back? Bing, bing, boom. That's all that matters. And I get, like, dating, right? And I get, like, putting your best foot forward, which for me means, again, being healthy.

John [01:05:35]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [01:05:36]: And having proper hygiene and taking care of yourself in that way. Yeah, that's normal to me. But if I go out, like, I'm. I'm. I might go, when I was single, on a date with somebody, if they're not attracted to me, that's not my problem.

John [01:05:48]: Well, but look, But.

Nicole [01:05:50]: But you're also feel like I need to go get plastic surgery. I don't feel you're going to change my eye color.

John [01:05:55]: Well, you're going to do something. You're not going to go out on a date and not wear any makeup.

Nicole [01:05:59]: I might if I feel good.

John [01:06:01]: Not really. Like, if you really like someone, if you're going to date with someone, you meet someone on a dating app or something, you're not going to go on a date and not wear any makeup. Like, you're going to try to look your best.

Nicole [01:06:10]: Like, but that doesn't always mean makeup.

John [01:06:12]: No.

Nicole [01:06:12]: But I think altering your appearance on this amount of makeup to come here. But even some of the podcasts we've been doing, I haven't been putting on as much makeup.

John [01:06:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:20]: Because I, like, went and got a lash perm. So they are. I don't have to put on makeup,

John [01:06:26]: but that's still an alteration in order to improve appearance. Because it does matter.

Nicole [01:06:30]: Like, that's what they're my lashes.

John [01:06:33]: Yeah, I agree.

Nicole [01:06:34]: They're real.

John [01:06:34]: Right. But. But it's not. It's. It's a healthy.

Nicole [01:06:38]: But I said you're going to put your best foot forward.

John [01:06:41]: Yeah. Putting on some makeup, but you're not

Nicole [01:06:43]: going to alter yourself to a point where you don't look like putting on

John [01:06:46]: some makeup, wearing a nice, you know, outfit, feel good in grooming your hair. Maybe even some things like, you know, piercings or like jewelry and things. Like, it's like, those are like, okay, level, like, normal level, fine. Right. It's the extreme stuff. It's the not caring at all. That's where, you know what I'm saying?

Nicole [01:07:08]: Makeup.

John [01:07:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:07:10]: I had an issue with. Because there's different levels of that. I would never put on makeup that makes me not look like or where I took it off. Someone would be like, what the hell? So I guess when you're like, you wouldn't show up with no makeup. Like, that does not look that different than when I have makeup.

John [01:07:27]: It's a natural enhancement. Right. Which is what it should be. It had a completely change.

Nicole [01:07:31]: Sometimes it is different. Like, I've never done makeup like that.

John [01:07:34]: Right.

Nicole [01:07:34]: But there are plenty of people that do a certain level of makeup where they look completely different when they take it off. So that's where I don't promote doing something where you're gonna alter yourself.

John [01:07:45]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:07:46]: Or like, I don't know, you put butt pads in to go on your date and you look like you got a vbl, but it's a butt pad. You know what I mean? Like, I don't promote those things. So, like, when you're saying, like, the makeup thing, I am pushing back because.

John [01:07:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:07:57]: I'm thinking you're saying, like, no, I'm altering myself. And no, I'm not saying that.

John [01:08:02]: I'm just saying that, like, obviously you care what you look like and you know that it does matter. Right. So.

Nicole [01:08:07]: Right.

John [01:08:07]: So a reasonable person is going to do things that are going to put them in the best light an Unreasonable person will do extreme things because they have to be the super yacht. And an unreasonable person will not care at all because they think people should just be attracted to me exactly the way I am.

Nicole [01:08:26]: I've just never seen someone show up to a date in like, that extreme level, I guess, like in the, like, totally didn't do anything at all.

John [01:08:34]: I mean, yeah, people aren't gonna do that. Right? Like, because, because people are aware of those things. That's what I'm saying is that it's, it's just important to have the reality, the truth of the situation, which I feel like.

Nicole [01:08:45]: Is that not logical? Like, is that not the norm?

John [01:08:49]: It's not. It's not. That's why, like, look, you've, you have witnessed it from the black pill guys and you know, you talked with them directly.

Nicole [01:08:55]: I know that they're extreme.

John [01:08:57]: The craziness. Right. You know what I'm saying? Look at how much they insulted my looks when, when we were on, on streams and stuff like that. So, so it, it, it's. That's, that's the whole problem. That's the whole problem is that it's not rational. It doesn't make sense. But our brains are wired in such a way as that what we see, we will believe that like enough images, enough of the message, enough of the social media algorithm feeding us the thing that we are predispositioned to believe spirals us down that cycle of believing it more and more and getting more solidified in extreme viewpoints. It happens politically. It happens with, with physical appearance. And so you've got to be on the straight and narrow, being not too much on this side, not too much on this side. And, and realizing that like, there is some truth to, to, to looks.

Nicole [01:09:48]: Be human.

John [01:09:49]: Yeah, yeah. But, but you can't be extreme either way. Right? And, and really what it comes down to is it's like, you know, ultimately you should look and say, well, what, what, what is important to me? Like, how do I want to show up? Yeah. How do I want to perceive myself? Like, you know, because if you look in the mirror and you're like, yeah, I don't like the way that I look, but it's like it's not because you've been influenced by.

Nicole [01:10:14]: Right.

John [01:10:14]: But, but it's like it's not your

Nicole [01:10:15]: best version of yourself that you know, you're capable of.

John [01:10:18]: That's exactly.

Nicole [01:10:18]: It's like, you know, you're capable of having control of this because you're not control of plastic surgery.

John [01:10:24]: Right.

Nicole [01:10:24]: And if you just let Yourself. Go. You're not taking control of yourself at all.

John [01:10:29]: Right.

Nicole [01:10:29]: Like, looking at yourself in that way. Yeah. You're analyzing, like, I could be more disciplined with my diet, and I'm not doing that. Or, you know, I haven't gotten a haircut in a while, and, you know, it'd make me feel better if it was cleaned up. That just seems logical to me. I get that.

John [01:10:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:10:46]: It's not logical to everybody, but I agree with you that, like, that sense is what people should be focusing on, not these extremes of, like, not caring at all. That is almost giving, like, depression. Like, you know, like, not caring. And then, like, oh, no, I need, like, the perfect nose for people to like me. Or I need, like, you know, bigger boobs, like, for men to pay attention to me. Like that. No. Like, it should be, what can I control? Because also, too, that, like, people on this side, men and women, now, you don't know if people like you for who you are or just, like, how you look. And that is a very lonely, sad feeling. That's why all these people, they're not really happy. Like this clavicle. Clavicular guy.

John [01:11:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:11:32]: He's probably not really happy. He's not really not happy now because he's probably in jail.

John [01:11:36]: Right.

Nicole [01:11:36]: But. And these people over here also aren't happy because they're not living up to their potential. They're not doing all that they can do to feel better about themselves.

John [01:11:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:11:44]: And that's why the middle, like you said, is the best place to be. Because when you come from that place, you're. You should not be coming from a place of. I'm doing all this. Like you said. You said this earlier. I'm doing. I'm not doing all this to. To look good for everybody. I'm doing all this to feel the best in myself, in my body, in me as a person.

John [01:12:05]: I've maximized my potential.

Nicole [01:12:06]: Right.

John [01:12:07]: That's because it's the same thing. Like, remember when I. When I got out of shape after my surgery and everything? And I'm like. I'm like, I. You know, I look fat. And you're like, no, no, you look great. It's like, okay, I get it. That you're like, that's good enough for you. Like, that doesn't.

Nicole [01:12:20]: But for me did not lose any attraction.

John [01:12:23]: No, I know. I know. But it's not for me. It's not good enough for me because I care about, like. Like, I know it's not my potential. I know that I'm not living up to where I told you that was fine.

Nicole [01:12:35]: Like, I understood that.

John [01:12:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:12:37]: But I didn't want you to think I was not attracted to you, which I appreciate.

John [01:12:41]: And that's. And that's. And that's true. But it's like. But that's the reason why, like, it doesn't. No one can tell me. Like, I know, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, because that's what I want. I know that my viewpoint of, like, my standard for myself is higher than most people's, definitely for myself, but for themselves. And that's fine. But that's mine. Because it makes me feel good. Because I like to see that. Because that's what I know that I'm capable of, right. When I'm on that. I feel good because I know that I'm doing the work. I'm knowing I'm doing the things and having this discipline that, you know, the discipline is important to me.

Nicole [01:13:11]: But that's where it should come from. Yourself, not other people. And I guess that's the big point that I've been trying to make the whole time. And I've been saying, like, don't care about it, but it's like, you should care about it for you, not for other people.

John [01:13:23]: Right.

Nicole [01:13:23]: Because you will be your most attractive self when you feel your best. And you will attract people the most in that instance, not when you're trying to look attractive to people. Do you know how many times people are unattractive because they're trying to look attractive? Like, they're trying to fish for compliments. They're trying to, like, you know, make themselves look a certain way, to, like, be appealing to people. Like, that's. That usually does the opposite. So, like, you shouldn't be. But that's also too. Why, when you go on a date, you wear what makes you feel good. You're not like, oh, do you. Do you think the guy with, like, a polka dot dress or, like a red dress, you know what I mean?

John [01:13:58]: But you're also paying about that. Like, you're also paying attention to, obviously, like, you know, you got to have some. Some level of cognition to understand that, that you're going to, like, try to appear attractive to the opposite.

Nicole [01:14:10]: But I think when you feel the best in what you're wearing, you will. That's what I'm saying. Like, you're not trying to analyze.

John [01:14:16]: You don't need to.

Nicole [01:14:17]: Color is going to make him the most attractive to you. And some people do do that. And I think that's a little dumb. I'm not going to lie.

John [01:14:24]: No, I agree.

Nicole [01:14:24]: I think that what you feel the most confident in.

John [01:14:27]: Right.

Nicole [01:14:28]: Is going to make you what's attractive.

John [01:14:31]: But look, you wouldn't go on a date, but you wouldn't go on a date and take all of your hair and put a bunch of gel in it and stick it straight up in the air and be like, I like this. Like, it would be unreasonable.

Nicole [01:14:45]: But if you did, then you better be going on a date with some other girl that's into rock music or something, because she might be attracted to it.

John [01:14:50]: But I'm just saying, like, whatever kind of silly thing, or you wouldn't paint yourself into a clown makeup and then be like, go on it and be

Nicole [01:14:56]: like, talking to extreme.

John [01:14:57]: I am talking to an extreme On

Nicole [01:14:59]: a date with you looking kind of like a wit.

John [01:15:01]: I liked it.

Nicole [01:15:02]: Like, you look like a hot, but I liked it. Yeah, but you look like, that's my vibe.

John [01:15:05]: Yeah, but it wasn't something extremely weird that, like, no one would, like, not liked it.

Nicole [01:15:10]: Like, it could have been a thing. Like, I wore a hat, a black hat, and, like, a black dress. And it was giving witchy vibes in more way than, like, most people would. Yeah, but I felt good in it.

John [01:15:20]: Right.

Nicole [01:15:21]: And then you liked it. So it's like, you know what I'm saying?

John [01:15:23]: But you will look the mirror and you're like, I look good. This looks good. You weren't like, you know, I mean, like, you. You knew that this would probably be attractive to guys. Like, you weren't like, I'm gonna make sure that I'm wearing something that is absolutely, like, has to be attractive to.

Nicole [01:15:39]: Yeah, but I think you're giving again. You're giving extremes. Because I think someone who has a mohawk is gonna go on a date with someone that likes mohawks.

John [01:15:47]: Yeah, but I'm not even talking about a mohawk. I'm talking about just doing something weird.

Nicole [01:15:50]: No one's gonna do that. I've never seen anyone do that.

John [01:15:52]: No one would do that. That's my whole point, is that no one would do that.

Nicole [01:15:55]: Right.

John [01:15:55]: But be.

Nicole [01:15:57]: You're going against my point. The point is that I'm telling people to do things that make them feel confident. And you're trying to say that someone gelling up their hair, not even in a mohawk or putting clown makeup on is going to make them feel confident. No one is doing that.

John [01:16:09]: People do. Do. I. I've seen some. Some really weird stuff that no one is gonna like that people have done,

Nicole [01:16:17]: but I don't think that's anybody genuinely feeling confident. I think that's, again, like, peacocking.

John [01:16:23]: It's peacocking in it.

Nicole [01:16:24]: So, like.

John [01:16:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:16:25]: That you're trying to throw off what I'm trying to say here, and I think it's very important.

John [01:16:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:16:29]: Like, what I'm trying to say is that when you feel most confident in yourself, essentially the same thing that you said about. I genuinely was just as attracted to you when you felt like you were not in your best shape.

John [01:16:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:16:43]: But I knew that if you wanted to do something to make yourself feel better, then you would show up in an even better version of yourself. You wouldn't be beating yourself up. You wouldn't be like, I feel so fat. That you would be feeling good about yourself.

John [01:16:54]: Right.

Nicole [01:16:55]: Or, like, you know, if you want to wear a certain thing, even if you wear a shirt that I'm like, oh, that's like a cool, interesting pattern. Like, maybe it's not something that I. A pattern I would have picked.

John [01:17:06]: Right.

Nicole [01:17:06]: But if you like it and you're rocking it, it looks good. It doesn't matter. That's what I'm saying. Like, when I showed up on our date and I was like, I am looking. Literally before I met you, I was like, I do kind of look like a witch, but I like it. It might scare him off. That was a risk that I was going to take, But I was like, I feel like I look good. I feel like, you know, this is my energy, like, my. My way. I want to present myself right now.

John [01:17:27]: Yeah, but it's in. It's in the realm the range of. Of attractive. It's not in the range of, like, way ridiculous. Like, no one's gonna like this besides me.

Nicole [01:17:37]: Well, I think that you would never

John [01:17:39]: show up on a date wearing something that no one's gonna like besides you. That would be ridiculous.

Nicole [01:17:43]: I don't think anyone would feel confident in that.

John [01:17:46]: Some people might. I'm just saying.

Nicole [01:17:47]: I don't think people that try to say that they can't. Confident in extreme things is like, you. The, like.

John [01:17:55]: Right.

Nicole [01:17:56]: People. I guess I understand where you're. You're trying to say that, like, sometimes people do do extreme things, and they're like, I'm confident and I can do this. But, like, I don't think that we're talking about the same things here.

John [01:18:09]: The. The point is that you can't separate the two. The thing that makes you feel confident, confident is somewhat influenced by what other people like. Right. Even myself. Right. I'm not. I'm not like, you know, there's a reason, like, my standard is probably higher than it would be for myself had I not seen so much imagery of what physiques could look like for men. You see what I'm saying? So everyone is subject to this, right? Like, you are going to be subject to this to a degree. It's to the extreme degree where that's the thing that's the most important thing that. That, like, where your entire thing is to. Is to make other people like you because of how you look. That's where it's not healthy, where it's, like, what you feel comfortable with and confident in. It's influenced by what other people think, obviously, because that's where you got your notion of it from. But it should not be completely dominated by that.

Nicole [01:19:04]: Yeah, but there's plenty of people to grab from, because on, like, again, I still feel like you're trying to derail this when we're essentially saying the same sort of thing. Because I guess my thing, like, here's an example, right? Like, you might not believe this, but there are women who say that they're not as attracted to really buff men. I believe them. Some women like really skinny, scrawny men. So, like, look, I. Again, I can. I can see your eyes rolling here, but, like, you can't. You. You're not gonna be like, okay, this girl, she. I saw her boyfriend was really skinny and strong. So, I mean, skinny and strong, so I'm not gonna eat for three days.

John [01:19:46]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [01:19:47]: You want a woman that's attractive to buff men.

John [01:19:49]: Exactly. No, that's a good point. That. And that's true. That's true. Yeah.

Nicole [01:19:53]: So, like, that's what I'm trying to say here is that you have to do what you feel confident in. And, like, yes. You're gonna put your best foot forward.

John [01:20:00]: Right.

Nicole [01:20:01]: Like, yes, you want to be attractive, but you want to attract the people that are going to be attracted to you for you for what you like.

John [01:20:09]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [01:20:10]: Like, you are a buff man.

John [01:20:12]: Right.

Nicole [01:20:13]: Are you telling me that you're going to not go to the gym because you're talking to a woman who doesn't like muscles? No, you wouldn't do that.

John [01:20:21]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:20:22]: Like, you would just be like, we're not aligned.

John [01:20:24]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:20:25]: That's like, my whole point here is that, like, if we stop stressing about all this stuff, like. Yes. If you don't care at all about what you look like.

John [01:20:33]: Right. Yeah. You're not going to attract very many people at all.

Nicole [01:20:35]: Right. Like, you're not going to have A lot of options. That's true. What you're saying about that is true. If you're also like, have such high standards because you've gotten all these plastic surgeries and you want someone that also looks like they've, they don't have any flaw at all, you're also going to have very limited options.

John [01:20:50]: Right?

Nicole [01:20:50]: But if you know who you are.

John [01:20:53]: Right.

Nicole [01:20:53]: And what you want and like what makes you feel confident here, you want to attract somebody that appreciates that, not try to fit into the box of other people.

John [01:21:02]: Here's the marriage of the two points, which is this is, you should optimize, this is my engineer mind, between number of options and what you like, right? So you need to optimize between those

Nicole [01:21:21]: two things where you can get the most options while still being exactly as

John [01:21:25]: much as possible, right?

Nicole [01:21:26]: Yes.

John [01:21:27]: So like, what you like, you might have to compromise a little bit on what you like because it's like, I mean, you might like to wear some weird ass color that no one's really gonna like or whatever, or wear your hair in some weird way that, that very little people are going to like. And so you might have to compromise a little bit on that. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, for example, I might have to be like, okay, those driver shoes, I like to wear them with socks, but I'm gonna not wear them with socks because most people are gonna be like, like, why is this guy wearing driver's shoes with socks? Right? Like I like to wear them with socks.

Nicole [01:21:57]: Yeah.

John [01:21:57]: But I'm probably gonna make the call. I'll make a little bit of a compromise there and not wear them with socks, even if I like to wear them with socks. Because it does look a little bit weird to most people, which is fine, right? It's not a big compromise.

Nicole [01:22:08]: Yeah.

John [01:22:08]: I'm not sacrificing my, my integrity and my core values. Right. It's like you're making some, but you're trying to optimize it to where you get the sweet spot between maximum options. Like if you're dating and, and what you like, right? And you don't want to go, why? And just be like, I only care what other people like.

Nicole [01:22:26]: Right.

John [01:22:26]: And they don't want to be like, I only care what I like. It doesn't matter if anyone else thinks I'm attractive at all. Well, you're not going to be dating anyone. You see, I'm saying. So that's the marriage of the two things that we're saying.

Nicole [01:22:35]: Yes. But also if someone like breaks up with you for socks, then. Good riddance.

John [01:22:39]: Yeah, well, like I said, it's a minor compromise, but, you know. Okay, I think we have, yes, we have beat this horse.

Nicole [01:22:47]: This one was a debatey one.

John [01:22:49]: It was good, though, because. Yeah, because it's like we're both trying to say similar things, but there's nuances to it, to the. You have to. You only unravel it by talking.

Nicole [01:22:58]: You have the male perspective, and I do think they have to optimize a little bit more. And I think that's why you're saying that.

John [01:23:03]: Right.

Nicole [01:23:03]: Is because men don't get as many dates as women.

John [01:23:07]: Right.

Nicole [01:23:07]: But I don't think that you should super optimize because you do want someone, though, that is attracted to you.

John [01:23:15]: Right.

Nicole [01:23:15]: For what you like as well, too. Because without going too far into it, even when you were like, if you like wearing a certain color and you're not going to wear it on first date, well, when are you going to wear the color? You know what I mean? Like, are you never going to wear that color again? Like, it's like, are you going to wait till it's safe? Like, there's still nuances there. Yeah, but you know what I mean? But I do get that men want to optimize their options because they are the pursuers and they have to initiate. So I do understand your perspective, but I don't want it to go.

John [01:23:41]: No, super. You know, it's a. It's a. It's a combination of those two.

Nicole [01:23:46]: Like vent diagram.

John [01:23:47]: Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like I said, it's. It's maximizing between those two things where you're gonna have to compromise on one or two, you know, but you, you find the sweet spot in the middle where you're not compromising yourself too much and you're not just, like, doing whatever the hell you want.

Nicole [01:24:03]: Yeah.

John [01:24:03]: So, you know, so there you go.

Nicole [01:24:06]: All right, well, if you didn't get all of that, then I don't know what to tell you because that was a long explanation.

John [01:24:13]: Better than PerfectPod.com and get the transcript.

Nicole [01:24:17]: Yeah.

John [01:24:17]: And put it into. Read it again into chat GPT and be like, what the hell did they actually say?

Nicole [01:24:21]: True.

John [01:24:22]: What's the points of this? Right, So I think we got. No, I did. Yeah. But just if you want a quick summary of it. Well, I mean, it'll be on the show notes on the website, actually. So there you go. So we'll. We'll chat GPT it for you.

Nicole [01:24:33]: Yeah. Or send us an email. Better than perfect podcast gmail.com, and check out the website@betterthanperfectpod.com and, you know, got questions, topic. Send them to us.

John [01:24:46]: We'll.

Nicole [01:24:47]: We'll do it.

John [01:24:48]: Yeah, we'll.

Nicole [01:24:48]: We'll send it. Debate it.

John [01:24:51]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [01:24:51]: John's got a vein in his head right now from this one popping out.

John [01:24:56]: Fun. It was fun. All right, we'll see you guys next week.