Nicole [00:00:00]: Because I don't think a lot of people, especially men, no offense, know what it means to have a kid. Entail.

John [00:00:08]: That's what we're going to talk about.

Nicole [00:00:09]: A woman knows a little bit more because, like, her body goes through it. She's carrying this kid. She knows what's going to happen the first nine months, and she knows pretty well, you know, basically what's going to happen thereon after, like, obviously you learn things as you actually have the child. I don't feel like a lot of times people really realize what having a kid even means.

John [00:00:29]: Yeah. Don't have kids. Beyond the perfect we discover through our.

Nicole [00:00:36]: Flaws we complete each other Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way.

John [00:00:49]: All right, welcome back to Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we show you how two people, imperfect people, helping each other equals one better than each other grow. Oh.

Nicole [00:01:02]: Helping each other finish each other's sentences.

John [00:01:04]: There we go. We learned this week what is after.

Nicole [00:01:10]: Octuple or non nuple.

John [00:01:14]: It's either no nuple or non nuple.

Nicole [00:01:17]: Non nupple.

John [00:01:18]: And then you get into deck couple. Yeah. Then deck couple. So now when we say jinx, and we go double jinx, triple jinx, quadruple jinx, we can go to.

Nicole [00:01:26]: We never talked about that. So. Yeah, when we say something at the same time, because we share the same brain, we'll be like, jinx. Double jinx. And then we also say all of those things at the same time.

John [00:01:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:36]: Like the jinxes.

John [00:01:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:01:38]: And we got to, like nine. And we were like, we have no idea. Yeah, but nine is. We're like nin couple. Jinx.

John [00:01:45]: So we had to end it. So now we can go up to 10, you know, maybe even.

Nicole [00:01:48]: He's like, what's 11? I'm like, we're not going past 11. We need to just stop at 10.

John [00:01:53]: Yeah. We're obnoxious.

Nicole [00:01:55]: We are. It's fine. We accepted it.

John [00:01:57]: Yeah. But there's so many times when it's like we say the same thing at the same time, so.

Nicole [00:02:02]: Yeah. Because we share a brain.

John [00:02:04]: Yeah. All right, so. Oh, yeah. We got back from our trip, from our anniversary.

Nicole [00:02:11]: Going to be different time because we're in the time, you know, so.

John [00:02:16]: But no one knows when their anniversary.

Nicole [00:02:18]: Is anyway, so 30, you guys. Have we talked about 37?

John [00:02:22]: I think we talked about 37.

Nicole [00:02:24]: Yeah. I would.

John [00:02:24]: Maybe we did. So I don't know if we, like, did a full.

Nicole [00:02:27]: We'll have to do a whole episode on that. But there's a story about our numbers, 37. So we decided that our wedding anniversary date is March 7th.

John [00:02:36]: Yeah. You can just make up your own date when you want.

Nicole [00:02:40]: Yeah. So don't follow the rules here, obviously.

John [00:02:43]: We just like to confuse all us of our friends and family, so.

Nicole [00:02:46]: But yeah, so we went on a nice trip that John planned. It was amazing. It was a little cloudy. We went to Kauai, but we still made the best of it.

John [00:02:55]: Yeah. Talked about moving to Kauai now, or.

Nicole [00:02:58]: That would be nice, but what would we do without this?

John [00:03:05]: All right, well, it is your topic for the week.

Nicole [00:03:09]: Yes. So, you know, as I always do, I waited till the last minute and couldn't decide what topic to do, but I think that we should do the topic of children.

John [00:03:21]: Okay.

Nicole [00:03:22]: This week, I guess just children, because there's a lot of different aspects. I mean, I know one we had written down was, like, kids and how that affects marriage and things like that, but also, like, parenting, and when you get into a relationship and you figure out if people want kids, you know, that was also a thing with us, too. So. Yeah. I mean, do you want to start with how, like, we started and go into, like, when you're doing having the kid conversation?

John [00:03:53]: Yeah, we could do that. That makes sense.

Nicole [00:03:56]: Well, so when we went on our first date, I had the brilliant idea of asking John if he wanted to have kids. And. And the reason I asked him is because I didn't want him to change his answer based on my answer. So I didn't want to. I didn't want him to ask me first. I wanted to know genuine. His genuine feelings. So I was like, do you want to have kids? And he told me no. And so I was like, well, this will be a great first date, but I do want to have kids, so I'll probably never see you again.

John [00:04:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:27]: And then he was like, well, well, well, well, for the right person. And I was like, I don't know. Like, I was genuinely conflicted because I'm like, now he's changing his story. This is exactly what I didn't want him to do.

John [00:04:42]: You can't win. You can't.

Nicole [00:04:44]: But also, like, that was also too. The. John didn't tell me that he already had a child, which I understand, because, you know, when you have a kid, you don't want to, like, bring that up until far enough into dating where it's important to protect your child and, you know, that sort of thing. So in the moment, he didn't want to have any more kids. And I was like, well, I want to have kids. And I didn't know he already had a kid, so I was like, you know, I want to have a kid. And I had always wanted to have a kid or two. I don't think I would have gone past two because I'm also terrified of the process of having a child. Like, it's very terrifying thing. But so, yeah, like, it started out kind of like I was like, I don't know. Because he changed his answer, which is not normally a good thing, ladies, if he changes his answer.

John [00:05:31]: I mean, there was some specific circumstances, senses around that, which, you know, we discussed in the other episode, but I was not supposed to even be on the date and, you know, obviously didn't want you to know I had kids. And so.

Nicole [00:05:43]: Right.

John [00:05:43]: But. But I did also, like, genuinely as. As we talked and, you know, and I got to know you, then realized that I actually could be open to this. Like, it wasn't genuine. It wasn't just me turning around the answer just to hear what you. Or just to say what you wanted to hear. But I was like, know the right person. Yeah, this, like, well, and I was like, okay, well, Nicole could be a good mother. And. And part of the reason, too, just to give a little bit of a. Of a backstory, too, and just kind of my viewpoint was. Or actually, I guess this is fast forward to when. When my daughter came over to our apartment and we had made these grapes. I think I talked about this before, but where you put like. Yeah. Or jello. That's it, right? And they're in the freezer and whatever. Anyway, you know, Sophia, you know, she picks up some baggy grapes and she. And it comes apart and it goes all over the floor, right? And it's like these staining jello. It's just a mess, right? And there's a dog, you know. You know. Yeah. It's like. And I thought, you know, and so in my mind, I'm like, oh, Nicole's going to freak out. And I wasn't even like, it's, you know, a big deal. Like, she's probably going to freak out. No yelling, no screaming, none of that. Just calmly helping Sophia pick up the grapes and making sure that Toto doesn't get the grapes. And I was like, okay, that's. But. But that. But my point is, is that, you know, my conception of why I didn't want to have kids or any more kids was partially because that's what I was used to expecting as a response. And so, like, a person, a woman that can handle that Situation and not lose her shit. Yeah. That I would want to have a kid.

Nicole [00:07:46]: Well, you had the privilege of, like, having a kid and introducing me to her and getting to actually, like, see our interaction. But some people don't. So the thing is, like, and I'm not saying ask a man this on the first date. I'm a very bold person, so I didn't care. And, you know, I mean, if it is important to you and you have the balls to say it, I'd be like, okay, ask him as a woman. Ask him how he feels.

John [00:08:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:12]: So, you know, don't like, be like, I want to have kids. What do you want? Be like, do you want to have kids? So then that way you can get his genuine response. And I do believe you. I do believe that you were like, I would have another child for you. Like, I think that that was very genuine. But the thing is, like, you also don't want to go on a date and you want kids and a guy be like, I don't want kids, like, no matter what. And then try to convince him to have kids.

John [00:08:39]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:39]: Or vice versa. Because that's just going to lead to, like, a rift in your marriage, a riff with your child, you know, between them, probably, or some sort of thing. And that's just not, you know.

John [00:08:53]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:08:54]: Not a good thing. And I do think that children is a make or break thing for relationships. Like, I feel like unless it's someone like you, where you're like, I would genuinely do this and like, as the other person, you can feel that genuine, like, answer from them and know that what they're saying is true, then I would say if you guys have differing views, to go separate ways and to at least ask it early enough. I'm not saying first date. If you're.

John [00:09:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:21]: You know, like, not trying to do that on the first date, but early enough where you can end things without it being too messy.

John [00:09:29]: Too messy. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I probably would push back a little bit on it, saying that the. Right. Like if the relationship dynamic is such, then you can figure out that thing, you know, I mean, some people are just really opposed or really want to, you know. But I do think that if the relationship dynamic, like if you're a really good compatible match, that you can kind of sense that out and figure that out. So, for example, I guess I would say if you really care about someone, unless there's some really good reason why you don't want to have kids or more kids or whatever it is, and you're with Someone who really does want to have kids and that's really important to them, then you would probably be more likely to say, okay, I, I would do that with this person. Like, you know, so, so I think that you might shut yourself off from opportunities that could work out by taking their first answer when you might not even really know. Like, it's kind of unfair to give that answer because it is situational. Right. So people have in their mind ahead.

Nicole [00:10:42]: Most people know, like ahead of time whether they want to have kids, whether they want to have more kids.

John [00:10:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:48]: And it is, I feel like slippery to base that. Like, I get your reasoning, like you based it on me and how I acted, but sometimes I'm like, I don't know if that's a good enough answer. Because what if for some reason you and your spouse or the person you're with end up having something happen and you're not together anymore and you really wanted to have a child because of the person? Like, yes, you know that that person will still be a good mother or a good father. Yeah, but it's like it was based on this other thing rather than like wanting to have a child.

John [00:11:28]: Well, I mean, yeah, I can, I can see that. But at the same time, it's like, I think the question is not do I want to have kids? It's like, do I want to have kids with you? Which is the question.

Nicole [00:11:39]: But I think that some people, like, they know that they want to have kids. They know. Well, especially as a woman, they know they want to be a mom. They know they want to do, you know, they know usually how many children they want to have. And I feel like a lot of women these days aren't wanting to have kids actually. And guys do. And sometimes, if I'm being totally honest, guys want to have kids for the wrong reason to carry their name on. They want to have kids, but then they're not really involved in their kids lives. So it's like, why? What are you doing? And then so like as a woman, you go on a date with a guy and he's like, well, I know I want to have kids. And you know, he's not probably going to say to carry on his name. Some guys might outright say it, but. And as a woman, you're like, I don't really want to have kids, but I love this person. You know what happens then? And just to throw in on the flip side, I told you I wanted to have kids.

John [00:12:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:12:32]: When you and I got together and then when, you know, our family came together, I felt fulfilled. I had a. I had a kid. I still have a kid. Like, your daughter feels like my daughter. And so I don't feel the need to have any more kids because I already feel like a mom. I feel like that part of me is fulfilled. So in that instance, it's a little different. But, yeah, I guess just the point of view of maybe like, somebody being pretty adamant on. No. But still caring enough about the person to then change their mind, but they're not mentally in the mindset to actually have a kid. Because I don't think a lot of people, especially men, no offense, know what it means to have a kid.

John [00:13:16]: That's what we're going to talk about. That's what we're going to talk about.

Nicole [00:13:20]: The woman knows a little bit more because, like, her body goes through it. She's carrying this kid. She knows what's going to happen the first nine months. And she knows pretty well, you know, basically what's going to happen thereon after. Like, obviously you learn things as you actually have the child, because every child's different and you go through different things. But, you know, I don't feel like a lot of times people really realize what having a kid even means.

John [00:13:44]: Yeah, don't have kids.

Nicole [00:13:48]: Don't have a. I don't know how people have a ton of kids, because that is a lot. Well, it's a lot to be able to, like, focus the attention I feel like each child needs on them, you know, when you have multiple, like. Because to be honest, too, that's another reason why I think we're choosing not to have any more kids. Because, like, that would take away from Sophia and she deserves, you know, to feel the attention and love that we.

John [00:14:16]: Give her and our relationship dynamic, too, because we know what it's like because we have Sophia one week off, one week on. Right? And it's like, you know, obviously, I love Sofia to death, right? She's. She's my daughter. And, you know, however, our relationship dynamic has to be different. And it would be different if we had her full time. Cause we'd have to adapt to that. But it just, you know, like, when it's me and you, we have. We're all. We're doing things together all the time. We're just glued to the hip, you know, know, kissing all the time, everything. We're not necessarily. Not. We're not. Not kissing in front of Sophia, but we're not to the degree that we.

Nicole [00:14:57]: Would be, like, focused on her, should be, because she's the child.

John [00:15:01]: But Exactly.

Nicole [00:15:02]: Yeah. And most people don't have a week on, a week off. You know what I mean?

John [00:15:05]: So they don't get to sample it. So they don't get. That's why it's like, if people had a week on and week off, if they got to get a sample of it, most people wouldn't have kids. They wouldn't. Now, I'm not saying that that. That's. You know, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing necessarily, but what I'm saying is that what people don't realize about kids is how it will change.

Nicole [00:15:28]: Your relationship to that most people might not. Might choose to not have kids if they have a relationship like we have as well, too, because we do enjoy each other's company.

John [00:15:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:39]: Because there are plenty of couples who don't necessarily get along in their relationship as well. And so they get that unconditional love from their children. And so they would have. I guess they're the ones having, like, five kids because, you know, they're getting that unconditional love from them and the love that they want from their relationship from their children.

John [00:15:58]: And. Which means they're raising mamas, boys, and daddy's little girls, like, not good, because that's. They're. They're. You know, there's the whole Freudian thing of, you know, your parent and, like, creating those unhealthy things where you're getting the relationship needs met from your children instead of for your spouse.

Nicole [00:16:20]: Right. But I do think that it does, like you said, change the dynamic of your relationship. Not, like, in a bad way, but the focus when it's just you guys, it's just on you guys, what you guys want to do. You can pick up and go wherever you want to travel and whatnot. But when you have a child, there's so many more things you have to not only plan what you're gonna do, but what they're gonna do. And, you know, that sort of thing. And you also need to give them attention. You know, we have one child, so she doesn't have a sibling to play with or something like that. So her attention comes from us.

John [00:16:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:57]: And so that's why, you know, when we do the 50 50, when the weeks we have her, it is a lot about her. Like, not to make her, like, spoiled with that.

John [00:17:07]: No, we definitely don't do that.

Nicole [00:17:08]: But, you know, we have a whole week to do things that we want to do. Just you and I.

John [00:17:13]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:17:13]: So it makes no sense in our minds to do date nights on a week that we have her when we can do three date nights next week, you know, and not have to hire a babysitter or leave her alone or any sort of thing like that. Like, that's not to say that we, like, we went on our anniversary trip, just us, because it was our anniversary trip. But that's not to say that we don't do things and vacations with her as well, too, and those sort of things. So, you know, we've. We balance it because we also have a little bit more, like, way of balancing it with the 50. 50. But I know that it has to be harder for, you know, even good relationships to find the time to go on date nights and, you know, how much time away from my children and, you know, and, you know, sometimes too emotionally, as the wife.

John [00:18:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:04]: Who's really sensitive to the emotions. Sometimes I take on a lot of her emotions and things she's going through, and it's a lot for me. And sometimes that week where it's just me and you and I can just, like, breathe through the things that we went through necessarily is really helpful. But I realized that a lot of families don't have that, you know.

John [00:18:23]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:18:24]: I do empathize with mothers and fathers who, you know, are going through that hard stuff all the time. And with multiple kids, you know, you have multiple emotions coming from multiple people. So it is a lot emotionally to take on. It's hard work, and it's really hard to do it the right way. Absolutely. But you need to do it the right way.

John [00:18:42]: Yeah. And. And I would, you know, I would kind of challenge, too. Like, some of the people that think, oh, and. And you kind of said this about. It's like, I want to have three kids. Exactly. Or it's like, you don't need to plan so much of your life that way. It's like, I need to live in this house. Like, people don't plan that, but people are like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have three kids. And it's like, okay. I mean, like, having a kid, like, let's see how life goes and see, you know, is that. I mean, obviously you have a time.

Nicole [00:19:09]: I mean, I can maybe see planning one or two, because most people are like, I only want to have one. Or most people are like, I want to have two. So they have someone to play with.

John [00:19:17]: But base it on who you're with.

Nicole [00:19:20]: Yeah.

John [00:19:20]: You know, because that is going to put a lot of stress on that relationship, and you have to have a.

Nicole [00:19:26]: Rock solid foundation, like, the relationships where it all starts. And that should be the number one. You know, it's the core of it. Like you start off in a relationship and it's just you two and then you have children a lot of the time. Or like, either way, like it's the relationship first because that is what influences the child and everything else in the household. So I agree with that.

John [00:19:49]: Yeah. And then like, like we said in our dynamic too, it would be, you know, I don't know, if we didn't have Sophia, like, it would still. I think we'd probably have a kid, but it would still, it would be hard for us to do because we spend so much time together. And like you're going to. Yeah. And you're going to lose some of that. It doesn't mean that, like you can't ever be together. It's just that when you have a kid, it is going to change things in, in the terms of the time, especially in the first few years and all of that, that stuff. But you're just not going to be able to, you know, if that's what you want to do. It's going to. It's an 18 year old. I mean, it's more than an 18 year decision, but it's at least 18 years where your life is going to be, going to be changed. And so I would almost venture to say that most people shouldn't even have kids. They should really think about it. Is that really what you want to do? Because it might not make your life better. Just because you've been told that's what you're supposed to do and all these things doesn't mean that's what you should actually choose to do again. I'm glad that we have Sophia and she's wonderful. Uh, but a lot of people also aren't ready to be parents either.

Nicole [00:20:55]: Right.

John [00:20:56]: Because. And then we'll talk about that a little bit too, is, you know, the parenting is not an easy thing to do. And you can, you're taking a lot of responsibility. You can really mess someone.

Nicole [00:21:05]: You're a human being.

John [00:21:06]: Yeah. Most people go to therapy because of what their parents did to them.

Nicole [00:21:09]: Right. And even if you do everything right, I know Sophia's gonna one day be like, hey, this affected me that you guys did. And we tried to do every single thing right that we possibly can. Like, I'm very realistic of the fact that one day she might come to us and be like, hey, you guys did these things.

John [00:21:24]: That's not going to happen with us.

Nicole [00:21:26]: He thinks that, but because Nobody's perfect, though. I know, but we don't do a lot of the things that would traumatize a child. You're right.

John [00:21:34]: We don't do a lot of things that would traumatize a child, but we don't do any of the things that. I mean, honestly, I can say this. I can say that we can take pride in. This is. Neither of us have yelled at Sophia one time. Not one time since she's been. Not even one time. Not even one slip. Not even, oh, I lost my cool, and I'm sorry. So neither I have done it, nor have you done it. So, yeah, maybe we're not perfect parents, but there's not going to be trauma that she's going to have from us. Not from, you know, at least since we've been together. So. So I'm pretty confident.

Nicole [00:22:11]: I'm glad you're confident. I'm not saying that she's going to come and, like, dump all this stuff on us, but. Yeah, I'm also like, you know, we're human. We don't always make the right choices or decisions. Even though I do feel like, like you said, we do a lot of the time make the right choices and decisions.

John [00:22:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:28]: But. Yeah, I think. I feel like there was a few things that I wanted to say still.

John [00:22:33]: Before we move, we gotta get our notes.

Nicole [00:22:35]: I know.

John [00:22:37]: About choosing to have kids or the.

Nicole [00:22:41]: It was like. Like multiple things.

John [00:22:43]: Well, here's one. Maybe that space. And you can riff on this if you want to. I was going to say, because you mentioned it before, relationships come the rel.

Nicole [00:22:51]: Yeah.

John [00:22:51]: So in regards to a child, your wife comes first, your husband comes first. That. That's who comes first. Not the child comes first. That's essential. Otherwise the relationship will. You cannot put the child first.

Nicole [00:23:07]: You're the foundation for the child.

John [00:23:09]: Even in a split situation like ours, Sophia knows it, that you come first. You're my wife. I love her to death. She's my daughter. However, nothing comes between me and my wife. That's it. Nothing. Not parents, not children, nothing.

Nicole [00:23:27]: Which a lot of people put their children first because I think that's the right thing to do. And I understand where they're coming from. Because like I said, when Sophia's with us, she comes first. Like, when it's her week with us, we put aside a lot of what we would do. It is just me and you to focus on her. So I get that together.

John [00:23:45]: We put her first.

Nicole [00:23:45]: Right.

John [00:23:46]: Never apart.

Nicole [00:23:47]: Yeah, exactly. But you have to realize that foundationally, at the core, it's you and your husband first or you and your wife first.

John [00:23:56]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:23:56]: And then your children.

John [00:23:57]: Yeah. When the children leave the home, it's going to be the two of you. But more importantly, you're creating a model for your child. Right. Because they need to put their spouse first. They need to not be so dependent on their. On. On the parent as well. Right. That's not who they're getting their relationship, love, romantic relationship from. Unfortunately, a lot of parents end up creating that kind of weird situation with their kids. And you should. As a parent, you're not. It's not your friend. Your child is not your friend. You're not dumping your emotions and, you know, and getting your emotional support from them. You're getting it from your spouse. And if your spouse is not treating you right, you don't talk to your kid about it. Because if you put the kid first, that's what you're going to do.

Nicole [00:24:43]: Right?

John [00:24:43]: Right. They're going to be the one consoling you, which is you talk to your spouse.

Nicole [00:24:48]: Never. Right. We'll have to get more into that. But one thing. I did remember one thing.

John [00:24:52]: Okay, good.

Nicole [00:24:53]: So when you're dating or, you know, in a serious relationship before you get married, I do think it's important for both people, if you guys are planning to have children, to look at that person and say, yeah, would I have if I had a kid right now with this person and they stayed exactly how they are, or my child turned out like they are, or anything like that.

John [00:25:15]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:15]: Would I be proud? Would I be happy? Like, would it be a harmonious sort of, you know, situation? Which I'm not saying that things wouldn't happen, but you really have to do that as a man and a woman, you know, you have to look at the situation and be like, okay, if I literally had a carbon copy of this person.

John [00:25:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:36]: Would I be proud?

John [00:25:37]: Right.

Nicole [00:25:38]: Or would I be afraid? Because now I have two of them coming at me? You know what I mean?

John [00:25:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:43]: Like. Because that can happen.

John [00:25:46]: Well, it will happen. Children will inherit your negative character traits.

Nicole [00:25:49]: Not necessarily your positive ones, you know.

John [00:25:52]: Because whatever it is, they might be a different person. But the negative traits that you have.

Nicole [00:25:57]: Well, it rubs off. They're living in that environment. They're seeing that all the time. Like, it's just going to happen whether they want it to or not. And they're too young to fight it off really, you know, a lot of the time. So I would say when you're getting serious and you guys agreed, you want to have kids. Before you get married.

John [00:26:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:17]: Where you can still leave if the answer is no and you finally realize, like, oh, this isn't actually the relationship I thought it was.

John [00:26:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:25]: Ask yourself that question.

John [00:26:26]: Even if you don't want to have kids, you should still ask the question, still be like, if this is not a person that even if you're not going to have kids, that you would. You would want your kid to be like that, then you shouldn't be with that person.

Nicole [00:26:36]: I agree. It's not going to be long term, but it's very important if you're actually going to have a kid, because that's another human being's life that you are going to greatly affect.

John [00:26:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:46]: So that was one of the things that I wanted to say, and I think it's important. And I'm not trying to, like, break up relationships, but. No, you have to, like, think of these sort of things before, especially before you get married, but really before you even get super serious into a relationship.

John [00:27:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:04]: Because it's just easier for everybody to, you know, step away from if early on enough you guys have figured these things out.

John [00:27:12]: Yeah. And even if you decide that you're not going to have kids, look, unless you do the vasectomy or the, you know, and even then, you know, like, whatever method that you're, like, it could fail and you might end up having a kid.

Nicole [00:27:26]: That's true.

John [00:27:27]: So you better have asked that question. Is this the person that I would want to have a kid with?

Nicole [00:27:31]: Or that if you guys both decide you don't want to have kids and you did have a kid, that you both would step up and do the right thing to be good parents for the child. Because like you said, things happen. It's very low probability, but you never know. And so, you know, it's important to really know who you're marrying and who you would have kids with.

John [00:27:53]: Exactly. 100.

Nicole [00:27:55]: But yeah, I guess we should go into the actual parenting part.

John [00:27:59]: I think so. I think we covered the. Yeah. I mean, how it changes the dynamic. The dynamic. And putting.

Nicole [00:28:06]: It's definitely harder to have the romance.

John [00:28:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:10]: That you have before you had kids or, you know, in our instance, like the weeks where we can just be romantic and do all the things that we want to do. Like, it's hard to do that when you have a child because. And even too, like, going on family vacations is a different dynamic because you have to do things that entertain your children, but you also try to fit in things that, like, you, as adults would like to do.

John [00:28:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:34]: So like, it changes all of the things because, you know, think of your honeymoon you go on. That's just like straight romance. You guys do whatever you want. Like, it's all about you guys. But then when you have kids now, you're probably going to Disneyland for vacation instead to, like, entertain the children and give them those memories and all those things. So it's like, you know, and now, like, Christmas is like this magical thing for your children. And, you know, you try to make it special for them and, you know, it's. It changes the whole thing. And it should.

John [00:29:04]: Right?

Nicole [00:29:04]: It should change the whole thing.

John [00:29:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:06]: Like, obviously, if 24 7, we could just be romantic and, like, go on dates every single day, we would do it. But, like, we do things differently on the weeks we have her, because she deserves that. Like, she deserves the attention, she deserves the love, she deserves the family time, and we give her that.

John [00:29:24]: But I think some people take it to the. I mean, we have the advantage of having a week and a week so we can, you know, we. We don't have to worry about having the time for ourselves. But some people take it too far in putting the kids. Well, again, they put the kids first before the spous. And so the spouse's needs aren't being met, and then the romance dies and.

Nicole [00:29:49]: The relationship gets rocky. And that's supposed to be the foundation. And so it causes a lot of problems.

John [00:29:55]: Yeah. If that's the foundation, you gotta make sure you prioritize that. Even if you're running kids to soccer and all kinds of stuff, you take time as a man. You make a date night for your wife and you take her out. Don't just say, well, we could save money if we just, you know, it's like, we don't need to do this. No, you do need to do it. Get dressed up every once in a while. Make her feel like a lady. Like you're still courting her. You should always have that element of romance, even if you have kids. Don't neglect that, because not only is that important in keeping the relationship alive, but you're also setting the example for the kids. And that's also why you should kiss in front of the kids. Right.

Nicole [00:30:37]: Be affectionate and do nice things for each other. I agree. And also, you might have to make hard decisions, like, even potentially moving, like, I wish that we lived closer to our families.

John [00:30:49]: Sure. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:49]: Because then, you know, if, you know, God forbid, we needed to have a date night, you know, they're going to stay with family rather than just a babysitter. And they get to spend more time with them and you know, so. And a lot of people do move when they have kids to be closer to family for those reasons. And it's good for the child. It's good for you guys, you know, so that is something that might potentially come up too. And that's also a change. Right. Like, we live in San Diego and like, my family lives in Virginia and your family lives in Florida. So that would mean, like, we would have to up and move to one of those places. And, you know, we like San Diego. Yeah, but. And some people might have to end up moving from a place that they like. But, you know, your dynamic's different. Like, there's also things differently you do when you live somewhere, when you're just a couple and versus when you have kids. So you have to weigh a lot of things too. You know, I mean, you might end up with a minivan or some car that holds more children because you're having more children. I mean, like, it's a lot of things that change.

John [00:31:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:52]: In the dynamic. Like more than we could probably even just sit here and list out. But.

John [00:31:56]: But most people don't think about that. That's the thing is that I think is important is to just to realize that you can, you can handle it. You can get. If your relationship is strong, you can handle anything. Right.

Nicole [00:32:09]: Yeah.

John [00:32:10]: But know that those things are going to change. And then again, like I said, it's a decision you don't have to make. You don't have to have kids today. Right. We have birth control. We have, you know, various methods of that. Your parents can put pressure on you, whatever. The church can, whatever. You don't have to do that if you don't want to.

Nicole [00:32:29]: If you do want to go ahead obligated. Yeah, like, yeah, that's the wrong. Reasonable for everybody.

John [00:32:35]: Right. It's the wrong reason to do it.

Nicole [00:32:36]: Yeah. Like, this is a person that's going to grow up. This is a baby that's going to grow up into a person and go out into society and like, little things that, like, parents are like, oh, it's not going to matter. Like, they don't really know. I think our generation, and maybe the one after ours understands it more. I feel like people our age are trying to break a lot of generational, like, cycles of things of trauma. But, like, like I said, there's still gonna be certain things that a child's gonna go through. Like, even if it's not something traumatic is what I'm trying to say with Sophia, it's gonna come to us one day. She might be like, you guys didn't let me go to high school in Korea. Like, she loves K Pop, so. And, like, that's not a wrong thing, but that might cause her some.

John [00:33:24]: She's gonna be like, you guys, I can't believe the books you guys had me read. I, like, I didn't want to read the books when I was 12 and 13, but you, you made me read how to Win Friends and Influence People and Psycho Cybernetics and the. And the Power of Now and all of these books. And she's like, she's going to be like, you. You guys, you guys help me so much. I'm so much.

Nicole [00:33:49]: I'm sure she will, but she still might also be like, those were boring as hell to read. Like, it's two sides of the coin, you know?

John [00:33:56]: Yes.

Nicole [00:33:57]: For her greater good. But I'm just saying that, like, sometimes even things that you're doing for their greater good affects them in ways that they think is traumatizing, they think is bad, and they hold on to it, but it's really for their greater good, and they don't really realize it until they're 30.

John [00:34:13]: Well, unless they get the emotional maturity from the books you're having them read so that they don't think that. But, you know, we'll see. But. But, I mean, it's not going to be. Again, like I said, we don't yell at her. We don't, you know, we could talk about the parent. Like, how do we parent? Like, I mean, I think that's a good.

Nicole [00:34:32]: Yeah, well, we don't yell. Yeah, we allow her to have a, you know, safe place to process her emotions, and she definitely struggled with expressing them, you know, which kids do.

John [00:34:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:34:44]: It's totally.

John [00:34:45]: Not everyone does.

Nicole [00:34:46]: Yeah, everyone does.

John [00:34:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:47]: And. But, you know, being calm in, you know, upsetting situations, emotional situations, and not yelling and not saying, calling names or saying mean things has demonstrated to her that, you know, you don't have to do that. Like, it's a choice. Like, you can still be hurt by something or upset about something and not take it out on other people. And she's learn that, you know, like, she's not perfect. She's a kid and she's, you know, about to be a teenager. So that's a whole another thing. But she, she has really realized it. Not because we've told her, but because we embody that to her. And the thing that people need to realize with kids is that they, like you said, they Mirror what they see, and that's what they really believe is what they see. See. So if you are, like, telling them, don't yell, you know, like, don't take things out on people, but you're doing that.

John [00:35:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:35:47]: They're not going to listen, especially if.

John [00:35:48]: You'Re doing it to them.

Nicole [00:35:49]: Right, exactly. Like, they're not. They're going to be like, okay, that's like, crap. And then do what you're doing.

John [00:35:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:55]: But, you know, the best mirror is your children. Like, they pick up on what you're doing, and they idolize that in a way that you. And they might not even realize.

John [00:36:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:07]: So a very important thing for people is to be the type of person that's a role model for your child. Like, if you're sitting at home and you're talking crap about people, they're going to learn that they should talk crap about people. But if, you know, they see that you're like, no, I'm, you know, I'm not going to say things like that, and I'm not going to yell at people. They will idolize that behavior and they will realize, okay, this is the right way to handle things.

John [00:36:33]: Right, exactly.

Nicole [00:36:34]: And so I think it's very important for people who are wanting to be parents to realize that you have to set the standard for your children. You have to be the role model. You have to do, and you have to be consistent. Because that's the thing is, like, kids will call you out on your bullshit if you have a rule and you miss it one time.

John [00:36:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:36:55]: They'll know and they'll be like, oh, it doesn't apply to me.

John [00:36:58]: Right.

Nicole [00:36:59]: Because they didn't do it that way.

John [00:37:00]: That one time you did.

Nicole [00:37:01]: Right, exactly. And hold it against you.

John [00:37:03]: You.

Nicole [00:37:03]: And so consistency, you know, we obviously have, like, certain rules. They're not crazy.

John [00:37:09]: They're not crazy, but you got to have rules.

Nicole [00:37:11]: And we. If she breaks the rules, we don't yell at her. We don't, like, stonewall her, not talk to her. We're always loving to her. That's another thing, too, is like, no matter what, we always make her feel loved.

John [00:37:23]: She gets the consequence. Not the attitude.

Nicole [00:37:26]: Right. Not the consequence.

John [00:37:28]: Because you want children to do the things because they're Right.

Nicole [00:37:34]: Right.

John [00:37:34]: And to avoid the consequences of their actions. Not because you're going to be upset at them.

Nicole [00:37:39]: Right. Or they're afraid of you or.

John [00:37:41]: And if you yell or get upset or you treat them differently because they made a mistake and they're paying their own consequence for it, then what they learn is not to do the right thing, but to people, please.

Nicole [00:37:53]: Because they don't want someone upset with them.

John [00:37:55]: Right. And so that's why it's important to just be. And then again, like you said, it's the example you're setting. Right. It's like what happens when things don't go my way? Well, I let other people. I can handle that. I don't have to get emotionally upset about it. It's your consequence. Sophia sometimes has consequences. And we never get upset about it. We're just like.

Nicole [00:38:17]: And we don't treat her differently. We're not mad at her. We don't ignore her. We don't, I don't know any other sort of thing. We just tell her like, hey, this is how it is. He loves you.

John [00:38:27]: I'm sorry you have to suffer that. And she's like, well, then can you, like, take it away? And we're like, no, we can't. We. I mean, maybe once or twice we've. We've like given her reprieve from a.

Nicole [00:38:39]: Consequence, but that's because she showed the responsibility of the thing that she, you know, she made up with it, with the responsibility. Because that's what we're teaching her a lot now. Like, she's actually really responsible.

John [00:38:51]: Oh, yeah, super responsible.

Nicole [00:38:52]: But, you know, she's getting to that age where she's getting. She's going to be a teenager. She needs to learn the responsibility and things like that. And it's more so just like waking up on time and doing things, you know, making sure she's ready for bed on time. Things that, like, she's gonna need to learn in her daily life. Like, we need to set our kids up to be on their own and succeed. That's like, we're not throwing them out there right now, but you have to baby step based on where your child is at, of introducing things like responsibilities or lessons that they're gonna need in the long run based on their age, you know.

John [00:39:30]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:39:31]: And kids today too are growing up so fast. Like, I was not at the level that a lot of 12, 13 year olds are at. Like, you know, when we were 12 or 13, we still did a lot of childish things.

John [00:39:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:45]: Like, and we still enjoyed a lot of childish things. Like, you see kids today, like, talked about on the Internet where there's like 8 year olds going to buy retinol. And I'm like, what? Like, they're trying to grow up even faster than we are going to get.

John [00:39:58]: Rid of those wrinkles before they start.

Nicole [00:40:00]: Yeah. Like, it's just. It's gotten. Gotten kind of crazy. Like, you know, they're growing up faster.

John [00:40:04]: So with the music and the video and all the. Yeah, they're exposed to all that stuff and. And if they have unfiltered Internet access, they have seen more kinds of porn than you've seen.

Nicole [00:40:17]: Yeah.

John [00:40:18]: So doesn't matter what age, even if.

Nicole [00:40:21]: They don't going to school, you know, like, there's kids that have that, and they're just going around telling everybody, and then you have to have those conversations. And that's the thing, too, is, like, once your child knows these things, you can't take it back because if you try to, like, hide it too, like, oh, you can't do this. They're going to be more curious and more interested in it. You have to, you know, give them the appropriate information based on what they know and how old they are, and then also make them feel safe enough to come talk to you about any other questions they have about this stuff or, like, and also make them realize that they don't have to do these things to fit in and be cool and that, you know, they are safe at home. You know, like, that's very important. I was actually reading a Brene Brown book. I think it's called Braving the Wilderness. And the biggest thing that she said about parenting, too, is that you have to instill in your children that they can stand on their own. Even when it's scary. Even when they're all alone. Yeah, because they're not all alone. Like, if you make them feel safe and accepted for who they are at home, they're never alone. And so while it feels like they're on their own and braving the wilderness, out in the real world, they still have the reason that they can stand strong in those situations and, like, say no to peer pressure and all those things is because they have that knowledge of that. Even if I'm out here all alone, when I go home, I'm not alone.

John [00:41:50]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:51]: And so that is so important. And because so many kids fall into peer pressure and things like that for multiple reasons, but a lot of them stem from things going on at home and, you know, or, you know, things that they're going through or. Yeah. Wanting to fit in and, you know, the best thing to teach your children is to be who they are and be kind. You know, that's another thing, too, about being a role model to your children is that there's so many bullies in the world because, you know, they go home.

John [00:42:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:22]: And they see that stuff.

John [00:42:23]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:42:23]: Like, they see that stuff at home.

John [00:42:25]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:26]: In one way or another. And so that's what's perpetuating this. Like, if you teach your children to be kind and be kind to other people, but also, like, stand up for themselves. Because don't get me wrong, like, you know, you have to teach that to children as well too. But there's a right way to do it in a wrong way. Yeah. So, you know, it's. It's a lot of things, more than we could even express here.

John [00:42:46]: Let's talk about some examples of how we parent so that I think people can get a good idea. Right. So, for example, we talked about responsibility, like giving her responsibility. That's how we do things, is she gets the responsibility as much as we can give her. So for instance, in our house, she needs to be up and ready. I've told her, be ready for school at 7:40am and Nicole will take you to school.

Nicole [00:43:16]: Right. And that's up to her. She could get up at 7:30 and roll out of bed, brush her teeth and go. Or she can get up at 6:30.

John [00:43:24]: She's responsible for her own alarms. You know, she had some problem with that before she asked for a manual alarm clock. We bought her one.

Nicole [00:43:32]: And she has an Alexa, so that's what she was using.

John [00:43:34]: She's responsible for getting herself up. Like. So there's no. In our house, which is. I think it's different than a lot of people's houses. There's no. Wake up, wake up. Knock on the door again. Come on, you're gonna be late for school. We don't do any of that. Zero of it. Not at all. Which is great because it's not stressful for us at all. I don't know why parents do this all the time. It's so stupid. Like, all you gotta do is make a rule and have consequence for the rule. Now the consequences if she's not ready, if she's one minute late for school, being ready means your shoes are on, you got your backpack, all that stuff. Then Nicole doesn't take her to school. I take her to school when I have the time to, after my meetings or whatever. And when I take her to school now, she's got to go up in front of the class and explain why she's late and apologize. Yeah, and apologize for wasting people's time. And some people are like, oh, you're embarrassing. Look, this is life. When you're late, you own the thing. And you don't get to make Excuses for it. And no one wants to hear your alarm didn't go off. In fact, one time her alarm didn't go off. Well, for whatever reason, I mean, we looked into it later and we found out that it did go off. You know, but regardless, I told her at the. In the morning, I was like, sometimes that's what you're like as an adult when you live and you go to a job, the alarm not going off or the power going out or whatever it is, it doesn't excuse you from the consequences. And so I'm not going to excuse you from the consequences either. Like you're going to still have to face those consequences. Maybe you should have said two alarms or maybe you should have had a backup alarm or whatever it was. Or maybe it's not worth it. And sometimes it's worth just. You're gonna have to suffer those consequences on the rare occasion that that happens. But we're teaching her to be responsible and she's responsible for her own schedule. Right? So she's got dance classes.

Nicole [00:45:16]: She's got interject just for a second, that when she is very responsible.

John [00:45:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:22]: Sometimes the minute thing is forgiven. Like we're not total crazy to the absolute T. Right. But like I mentioned before, consistency is key. And that is the reason that she is way more responsible now than she even was. I would say three were very.

John [00:45:41]: When it was necessary.

Nicole [00:45:42]: Right, right.

John [00:45:43]: Because we. If you give her. If you. What's the.

Nicole [00:45:47]: If you give a kid an inch, they'll take a mile.

John [00:45:49]: That's. Yeah. I didn't say it in the. You gotta. Can you do the voice? Can you do the what voice? That's. It's from Little Mermaid.

Nicole [00:45:57]: What? Oh, a Sebastian. No, I'm not gonna do my Jamaican accent.

John [00:46:02]: If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

Nicole [00:46:06]: That was pretty good.

John [00:46:07]: Okay, but, but, yeah, but, but the thing is she's responsible for her own schedule, right? So she's got dance classes, she's got, you know, other things on her schedule. Her bedtime is at, you know, 9:30, which.

Nicole [00:46:21]: And we've told her these. And she's also allowed to ask if she's confused. So don't. Like again, don't think. We're just like, you need to know your responsibility. Don't ask, you know, like if she knows because that's been pretty consistent schedule wise. But if for some reason she's like, hey, what time do we need to leave for dance class? Or whatever we tell her.

John [00:46:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:46:41]: You know, the thing is we don't like, we. We don't step on her toes by being like, hey, you know, you gotta leave in 10 minutes. Why aren't you dressed? You know she's not dressed.

John [00:46:52]: Yep.

Nicole [00:46:53]: Then that is her responsibility and she has to suffer the consequences.

John [00:46:55]: And she's lost her phone before because of that. She just lost track of time. She didn't know. And it's like, when that happens, we. We're just in the car. We give her, like, five minutes waiting in the car for her, and then we come out and get her and say, okay, you know, and then we take the phone. She's lost electronics for the day, whatever it is. And then we treat her just like normal.

Nicole [00:47:16]: Yeah.

John [00:47:17]: Just. We're not upset at her. It's not, oh, I can't believe you're late again, or, why can't you be more responsible? She's got the consequence. That's what the purpose of the consequence is.

Nicole [00:47:28]: Right.

John [00:47:28]: If you add on top of it, then you're taking away from the consequence. Like, she has to suff. And she's like, oh, that sucks. And like, yeah, that does suck. And that's where her. We are on the same side as her. That's why she's not going to rebel, because we're on the side of her.

Nicole [00:47:44]: Right. And constantly, too. We're like, come on, Sophia, like, you got, like, two minutes left. Why are you, like, sitting there? You know, we're like, come on, you can do it. But we don't. Outward. Say it. Because it's her responsibility and she appreciates that. You can tell. You know, she takes pride in doing these things for herself. And, you know, you can tell, too, that she values that she gets to make the choice. Exactly right.

John [00:48:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:10]: Especially at her age. It's like, you know, it feels good for her to make the choice, even if sometimes the choice means that she gets the consequence. She got to make the choice. And instead of her being upset at us.

John [00:48:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:21]: That we, you know, told her too late to get in the car or something.

John [00:48:26]: It's all on her.

Nicole [00:48:27]: Right?

John [00:48:27]: Yep. We don't nag. No nagging. No nagging zone. We don't need to. And it's. Nagging is just the stupidest thing you can do as a parent because it's stressful to you.

Nicole [00:48:36]: Right.

John [00:48:37]: And it teaches the kid the wrong thing. It teaches them that you're responsible, not them. Because they. If they're like, oh, well, mom's gonna wake me up. Mom's gonna nag me to make sure I'm not late. It's like, no, sometimes she's missed stuff completely because she didn't pay attention. And so she missed the thing. You know, if it's something that. That. That is for us or that that is for a family thing, then we're not going to let her miss it because she's not going to get out of it by it. But if it's something for her commitment.

Nicole [00:49:02]: You know, that she made, we also teach her the value of commitment to something, you know, which is important for children.

John [00:49:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:08]: So, yeah, it's. It works really well. And again, it's like she knows that she's safe and even sometimes she'll have bigger emotions and like I talked about before, you know, kind of like express them in the wrong way. But she does that too, because she knows she's safe, safe to do that. She knows that even if she gets worked up and she like, yells about something, that we're not going to yell at her and that, you know, we're not going to take it out on her.

John [00:49:32]: Now, there might be consequences if she. And she said that sometimes when she's said some disrespectful things and then, you.

Nicole [00:49:39]: Know, but that defense, like, she gets plenty of opportunities to turn the conversation around. It's more of like a boundary thing first, and then obviously the consequences come into place, like.

John [00:49:50]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:50]: So, you know, it sounds very, like, structured when we talk about it. But it is the right way to do it because she's learning her way, which I think children learn better when either it's like modeled to them, like I mentioned, or they are learning in their own time. Right. Like, because there's only been a few times that she suffered some of the consequences and she hasn't really had any of the problems and it still might happen again. We're all human. We've all been late to work, we've all woke up late or missed our alarm. But it's like we don't treat her any differently. We don't, like, punish her by, you know, punish her at all, really. Like, it's the consequence of her action, you know, that she knows. She knows what will happen. We also laid that out, right? What happens, you know, when this certain thing when you miss this time or whatever. And so she understands that and she doesn't make excuses.

John [00:50:45]: I mean, she might try to make excuse, but who you're making the excuse to because the consequence still remains. So she learned that quickly that it's like she just has to take responsibility for it because the excuse doesn't change the consequence. It doesn't matter if it's someone else's fault. It's like, it still happened. And as a result, I think one thing that's great is that we have a child that's 12, almost 13. That's supposed to be a tumultuous time. And yes, when Sophia was first in our house, when we were first working.

Nicole [00:51:18]: There was a hard transition. It's a hard transition for her. She was also younger. And, you know, I totally get that, but. But now you can tell how much she's grown. And I know she knows how much she's grown, and I can tell she's happier.

John [00:51:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:33]: Because of the things she's learned and getting to have the responsibility and, like, more at peace.

John [00:51:39]: But how many times, you know, does she talk back to you? Does she carry on and whine and complain? You know, like, we don't deal with any of that stuff, like the normal stuff that most parents are dealing with with a teenager, basically, we don't deal with that. I'm not saying we don't have any issues or we don't have any issues, but.

Nicole [00:52:00]: Right.

John [00:52:01]: Because of the way that we parent and that we've set these rules and we've set these consequences and how we act, we don't get those behavior. There's no talking back and yelling and screaming or slamming. Like, none of that ever happens. There's none of that behavior. Zero of it. Because of what we set up so.

Nicole [00:52:20]: Well, at times there have been, but, you know, but yeah, it's normal children thing. Like, again, you can't expect your child to never, ever do anything wrong. Like, no, just we've had conversations too, with her too, that we're people who are working on things and we make mistakes.

John [00:52:35]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:35]: And so we tell her that so that she knows that she's not alone. If she messes up or if she, you know, has to suffer a consequence or things like that, she knows that that's. That's normal.

John [00:52:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:46]: And that it's fine and that we still love her. And that's what's important to, like, again, to create that, like, safe space and to go about it in a way where you're not nagging them or even ignoring them doesn't really teach them anything. Like, people think that, oh, I just ignore my kids when they're yelling or whatever. And, like, that's not teaching them anything. Like, in some ways, yes, you're not feeding into it, but it's better to have, like, boundaries and have a consequence. Or. A consequence.

John [00:53:15]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:53:15]: Yeah. To those Things. And the one last thing I want to add, because I know we're getting out there, but parents should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, I could say ever, for 15. Make a child feel responsible. Anything.

John [00:53:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:33]: For their emotions, for their financial situation, for their relationships or anything.

John [00:53:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:39]: Like, I understand that people are like, oh, I want to be friends with my kid and have a close relationship.

John [00:53:45]: You.

Nicole [00:53:45]: You're not friends with your kid. You can be friends with your kid when they get older.

John [00:53:48]: Sure.

Nicole [00:53:49]: And when, you know, they've, you know, became a true adult.

John [00:53:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:56]: However, when they are still in your household and still learning, are still taking.

John [00:54:01]: Years old, are still taking money from you, even if you're financially supporting them, and they're not in your house, which you shouldn't be doing, but they're still not your friend. Then there's that.

Nicole [00:54:11]: That's not the relationship authority. But, like, the one thing that really messes a lot of kids up is parents putting all of these things onto a child, all these responsibilities for their emotions and their situations. Like, you should not be having a conversation that you would have with your girlfriend to your child.

John [00:54:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:32]: Like, you should not be telling them about things that they do not need to know. And it's not coming from a place of keeping secrets from your child. It's coming from a place of. They do not need to know that. Like, they are not responsible for any of those things. They do not know how to tell the difference between them feeling responsible for this situation and not. So the second you tell them stuff like that, they feel like they're responsible for you. And that is not their job. That's not their job. Even people who have kids who are like, oh, well, who's gonna take care of me in a nursing home if you're having kids for that reason?

John [00:55:08]: That, yeah, fucked up.

Nicole [00:55:09]: Like, I said the F word. But, you know, it's just. That's not what they're here for. You did not bring a kid into this world to be your best friend, to vent to, to have take care of you when you get old. Like, yes, that's what, like, children do end up helping their parents when they get old. But they're not obligated.

John [00:55:28]: They're not obligated to do that.

Nicole [00:55:30]: Right.

John [00:55:30]: Just because you brought a child into the world does not mean that they owe you anything.

Nicole [00:55:34]: Right.

John [00:55:35]: And just because you raise them doesn't mean they owe you anything.

Nicole [00:55:37]: Right. They are their own.

John [00:55:38]: That's your responsibility for choosing the child into the world. That doesn't. They don't owe Anything for. For basic human decency of having a parent that takes care of them and clothes them and feeds them. That's right. They're owed that by you. That's you. They don't owe you anything for that in return. And that's. I think a lot of parents don't. Don't get that. They don't understand that.

Nicole [00:55:58]: No, they don't.

John [00:55:59]: Because how many guys I have to coach, I have to tell you that I'm like, your parents. Like, stop. Like, stop. Like, I don't care if your parents are upset. You're your own man. You live your own life. You don't live your life to please your parents. I don't care if your mom is going to be upset. Your dad's going to be upset by your decisions. That's. That's.

Nicole [00:56:17]: They should still love you regardless.

John [00:56:19]: Right? They shouldn't be guilting you. There's. I mean, the book Boundaries actually is really about that. It's really for children with their parents, really is what it really was designed for. But. But yeah, you. You can't. You cannot be, as a parent, the one that's, like, guilting your children. Like, why don't you visit? Or why don't you care more? Or you're gonna. You're gonna hurt Mommy's feelings or you're gonna make daddy upset or what? Like, that is all manipulation language. It's all guilt manipulation language. And we've all been subject to it, but we know it's wrong. It's not something that you should be doing.

Nicole [00:56:55]: So, yeah, that is very key. If you have kids, it needs to be for the right reasons. And do not treat them like another adult. Like, it's different to talk to them and give them responsibility to prepare them for being an adult. But do not turn them into your best friend who you're venting to, telling them things that they should not know. Like, even when you and I are having certain conversations about our relationship, we don't have them in front of her because it's not. Because they get bad. And we don't want her to see the arguing because we definitely had disagreements in front of her. So she's seen that, and she knows how it looks. But at the same time, it's like, if she overhears, it's a Boba Taj.

John [00:57:33]: Something, It's a Boba Tajed me.

Nicole [00:57:36]: Yeah, I will never live that one down. But if she overhears us having a certain type of conversation about our relationship that she doesn't fully understand because we don't tell her all the things about our relationship because she doesn't need to know that.

John [00:57:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:57:49]: Then she's gonna think, oh, what if they get a divorce? Or, like, they're upset with each other and they're not, you know, they don't really love each other. She's gonna think all these things because she doesn't know the full picture. Because she shouldn't know the full picture. Yeah, but if we have a sabotage incident that she's sitting there with us and we're talking it out, we're not gonna go upstairs and be like, you know, talk about it. Like, we can talk about it in the correct way. It's still calm, not yelling at each other. So she's still seeing that modeled to her. Yeah, but we're not putting unnecessary stress and anxiety onto her of, like, her not knowing how stable our relationship is or anything like that, just because she's hearing one conversation that she didn't hear the rest of.

John [00:58:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:34]: So, you know, you need to make sure that you're saying appropriate things in front of your children and not doing.

John [00:58:41]: Those things to them and that you always come as a unified front.

Nicole [00:58:44]: Right.

John [00:58:45]: It's. There's no in between you.

Nicole [00:58:47]: Well, because the kid will sneak into that in between, too, and play both sides.

John [00:58:51]: Yeah. And Sophia knows. If Nicole said it, it's like I said it. There's no difference. There's no going to me. I'm never going to. If you said something, even if you said something wrong, even if you gave her the wrong instruction or whatever, I'm going to back you 100% and be like, nope, that's how it is. Because she's never going to me and you might have a talk afterwards and we can discuss it, but for as far as the her seeing it, we're a unified front. If dad said it, if mom said it, if whatever. It doesn't. It doesn't matter.

Nicole [00:59:20]: Which still might even be like, well, mom said it's fine, and you didn't actually say it's fine. But that's what they heard in their minds. Be careful of that. But, you know, that's normal of kid behavior. But, yeah, you're right. Like, you have to be unified because a kid will sneak into any cracks that they can. That's just like.

John [00:59:37]: And they'll drive.

Nicole [00:59:38]: Kids are.

John [00:59:39]: They'll drive a wedge between you. Not because they want to drive a.

Nicole [00:59:41]: Wedge between you, because they want to get what they want.

John [00:59:43]: That's all they're so. They'll use it to do it if they can, and if you let it drive a wedge between you, it will happen. So you got to stand behind your spouse 100%. Whatever they say, even if they say the most ridiculous, you're like, no, that's. That's how it is. You're like, yep, this later, right? Yeah. Because you're back. But that's how you should be. You should be backing your spouse all the time anyway, in public, to anyone, whatever, because regardless of it, because you can have discussion between yourselves, but you should be presenting as unified front. So true. All right.

Nicole [01:00:18]: I think that's what's our thing for the week.

John [01:00:21]: Gosh. There's really nothing really for this.

Nicole [01:00:25]: I know I've been, like, sick.

John [01:00:27]: The only thing I guess I could say, it's like, the other night, you were reading, and I came downstairs, and I was done with work, and I was a little upset because you're reading your book. So I went back upstairs and worked, but then I just came down later when you're in it, and I just asked to speak to you privately, and I just said, hey, this hurt me, because when I finish work, I work really hard and all these things, and I would like to, you know, be greeted and. And felt like, you know. And you handled that perfectly. You apologize to a huge degree.

Nicole [01:01:08]: Well, I did greet you, but I think it was more that, like, you, like, felt like I wasn't looking forward to spending time with you.

John [01:01:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:14]: Because I was reading, and I didn't want you to feel that way.

John [01:01:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:18]: And I. That wasn't my intention. And so I, you know, I really cared that you felt that way. And I'm glad that you brought it up to me, because I don't want you to feel like it wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to be malicious, but I understand where you're coming from. That I would feel the same way that if I was working all day and came down and you're like, wait, can I continue to read this? I'd be bummed out. Like, well, he doesn't want to hang out with me.

John [01:01:41]: But the only reason why I highlight it is because there's two things I think the value from this one, and this is some of the things that I've learned, too, is like, I gave you the benefit of the doubt from the beginning. It did affect me, but I didn't think that was malicious. Right. And so I treated you, and I hope you felt that way, that when I went to talk to you, I didn't treat you in a way that was in a offensive or defensive way, I was bringing it to your attention. And then also, like I said. And then also, I didn't ignore the thing. I brought it to your attention, and I felt like I brought it to you in a way that I feel like we handled it very, very well. And that's how, you know, you should handle things is in that way where it's like, okay, because a lot of times it's gonna. I'm sure I'm gonna do things that I'm just out of not thinking about. It is gonna in some way affect you in some way. And then, you know, if we address our problems just like that, not not believing malicious intent on the other side and just bring it to their person's.

Nicole [01:02:47]: Attention, vulnerable, and like, saying how it actually made you feel.

John [01:02:51]: Exactly.

Nicole [01:02:51]: Then, you know, talking it out, because I don't want you to feel that way. So it's like. And now I'll be more aware of, like, in that instance, to not come across in that way, because I don't want you to feel that way.

John [01:03:03]: No. Yeah. And I know that. Yeah. So. But. And like I said, I gave you the benefit of that from the. From the beginning. But. But I think it's important to deal with things that way. And like I said, and then also, you are defensive at all about it. You're just apologetic and, you know, make sure I won't do this in the future. And, you know, it was just handled very, very good. So.

Nicole [01:03:24]: Yeah, gold star.

John [01:03:25]: Yeah. But I would say that even, you know, six months or a year ago, neither of us would have handled that situation.

Nicole [01:03:33]: No, that.

John [01:03:35]: I mean, we're still, like. We wouldn't yell and, like, call each other names and stuff. We've never been that. You know, we've always had that level of muscle maturity.

Nicole [01:03:44]: But we both would have been more defensive.

John [01:03:47]: We would have been more defensive.

Nicole [01:03:48]: Yeah. You know, so we're growing here with you guys. Like, that's why we're doing this, you know, and it's important.

John [01:03:56]: All right, so make sure that right now, if you've listened to this long, that you go to, like, and subscribe itunes specifically and leave a review with some words in it because people are.

Nicole [01:04:12]: Still hating on us, I guess. Like, we still got, like, what, 4.2, something like that.

John [01:04:17]: We got to get that up to at least a 4.8. So leave us a nice Apple review on itunes.

Nicole [01:04:23]: Yeah. Thank you, King, for being our first review with words and always supporting us. And King and Michelle, they also have a great podcast see that.

John [01:04:32]: I think you leave a review, we'll. We'll say your name and say good things about you. So. All right.