John: Sex surprise, surprise. Knew it had to be in there somewhere. A lot of men don't really invest in understanding how to actually please a woman. If you think like a man, I can just get turned on very quickly or very visually turned on, right? Where it's like a woman's engine takes longer to rev up. You might think, well, as things progress, harder and faster is better. Women want things consistent because if you do something right that gets her pretty far up the scale, she's going to be like, keep doing that. You can't just take your experience, man or woman, and then apply it. It's a two-person thing, it's not a one-person thing.

[Music] Beyond through our flaws, we complete each other. Better than perfect, we stay through every fault. We find our way.

All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other equals helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship grow.

Nicole: Hey, you got it. It still counts. As you guys can tell, um, it's John's birthday. Granted, by the time this comes out, it won't be his birthday anymore, but I'll still be celebrating.

John: That's right. We'll be celebrating in the Maldives.

Nicole: That's right. But yeah, so June 21st, John's birthday. How's your birthday been so far?

John: It's been wonderful because I get to spend it with you.

Nicole: Aww, you're so sweet. Yeah, we haven't even gone to the evening festivities yet, but I think you will enjoy this.

John: I'm sure I will. I didn't even mean it that way. But so, since it's your birthday, I wanted you to be able to pick the topic that we talked about today. And I know I kind of sprung that on you this morning because you were like, "What's the topic?" And I was like, "Well, I was going to spring it on you when we were sitting right here, and you had no idea." But that felt a little too spur of the moment, so I at least told you this morning that you could pick the topic.

Nicole: And just this morning, I was thinking, at least I don't have to pick a topic for today. Well, they're like, "I got you a birthday present, but I got a good one."

John: I got a good one. But before we jump into the topic, what do we have for the... I mean, what's been going on? The Mama's boys are upset.

Nicole: Yeah, well, the passport bros still think that... Yeah, that one clip is like, "Oh, they think that I'm Pro passport."

John: Yeah, they think that you're saying the things that you were reading in that comment because they're like, "Yeah, this is the truth." And I'm like, "Uh, yeah, they're not watching anything but this clip."

Nicole: So, yeah. Well, that's okay. They can think it, you know. So, but yeah, the Mama's boys really surprised me.

John: Yeah, I wouldn't think that people would agree with that you should be a mama's boy. Like, look, I think they get confused because a man should care about his mother, of course.

Nicole: Yeah, but if she does everything for him to the point he can't do a lot of things on his own, or he's looking for a woman specifically to do certain things because he just doesn't want to do them or whatever, that's different than wanting a traditional marriage where, yeah, the woman is probably going to take over some of those duties that your mother did when you were a kid. But it's not... They don't understand that it's not the same thing that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the men who really don't want to handle any of those things, including like finances and things like that. And they do sort of turn the woman that they're with into a mother figure rather than the wife figure. And I believe many women in the comments said, "Nobody wants to have sex with someone they have to take care of."

John: Very true. You know, that's... But then the guys, too, they were like, "What about Daddy's Girls? And they don't know anything, and they want somebody to pay for all their stuff." Which, to their point, I don't think a parent should overly do things for their children anyway because as a parent, you're supposed to be setting your child up for success when they're out on their own and to be independent and things like that. But at the same time, too, they're the same guys that talk about they want a traditional relationship, but then they are complaining about having to provide their part of that.

Nicole: Yeah, and look, a princess, you do want a princess, okay? You do want to marry a princess. You don't want a woman with Daddy issues, do you? Is that what you want for a wife, is a woman with daddy issues?

John: Is that so? If a woman is a daddy's girl, that's a good thing. It's not a bad thing, right? What do men even mean by daddy's issues? Like she's insecure and looks for attention in the wrong way?

Nicole: Yeah, that's what I mean. A woman with Daddy issues is because she didn't get the affection from her father, and so she seeks male affection for her esteem. Right? Whereas a father, a good father figure that takes care of a daughter and treats her like a princess or treats her right, like the man that eventually marries her should treat her, he instills in her self-esteem and confidence. And so she doesn't have to seek her self-esteem or confidence elsewhere. She doesn't become a pole dancer.

John: I wonder where you got that one from. But yeah, so that's the kind of woman that you do want as a man. You know what I mean? That you... Yeah, it can be to an extreme where she's too princessy, and she thinks that the world should be served to her on a platter around her. Yeah, and that's... That could be an issue. But you want it to be more on that side of it than the other side of it, you know, for sure.

Nicole: So, I've just come to the conclusion that men love to complain, and they try to act like women do. And I'm not saying women don't. Like, plenty of women do too. But as we've come to learn, you say one thing, they complain about the opposite. And then you'll be like, "They can't complain about this," and then they find some new ways to do that. But as you'll notice now, right, because there's been enough time, and you've seen, it's the same guys.

John: Yeah, I do. So, they... These guys ruin it for everyone, you know what I mean? Because they make it seem like, because they're so active and so vocal, that it seems like it's all guys, just like some women ruin it for all women. But yeah, it's... And that's the weird thing about social media too, is it's like, you know, a hundred thousand people see your thing, and 20, 30 angry guys comment on it, and you're like, "Oh, this is what the perception is." But that's not entirely true, you know. But it does show you that there are definitely people that are silent and think the same thing too. So, there is that. But yeah, the Daddy's or the mama's boy thing just surprised the heck out of me because I was surprised. And what a lot of men need to read is a book called "Iron John" by Robert Bly. And so that's actually a really good book.

John: About a man's journey, it's allegorical. It's a man's journey in becoming a man, essentially, in breaking away from his father and his mother. Boys generally have this sort of bond with their mother, and they have to sever that bond. In the same way, they have to overthrow their father's rule over them. That's what it is to be a man, and most men just aren't growing up today. That's the problem. Being a mama's boy just means you have not matured; you haven't passed that stage. So many guys grow into adulthood, and they're still calling their mom every day, asking their mom to help them. You can't do that. Your wife has to come first.

Nicole: I was going to say, the real issue with a lot of the severe mama's boys is that typically those mothers push away their son's partners because they're so involved in their son's life. It's almost like that borderline kind of weird, like romantic but not obviously. There are plenty of people that have heard about mother-in-laws that hate their son's wives or girlfriends and try to ruin their relationship because the mother wants the son all to herself. That's what the severe mama's boy relationship usually looks like. She's so obsessed with her son, and he's so obsessed with her because she's been taking care of him and doing all these things for him. I'm not talking about men who care about their mother; every man should care about his mother. I'm talking about the ones that literally couldn't survive without their mother. When they get into a relationship, the mother tries to intervene because they've had such a tight connection the whole time.

John: A lot of men also took it the wrong way, thinking, "Oh well, no, I learned how to actually treat women better." If you care about your mother, you will treat women better because you have a good connection with your mom. But if she does everything for you and basically turns you into a super lazy man with no motivation and no pride, then she's not helping you. In old country Middle Eastern cultures, even where my origins in Turkey are, women will treat the boys so much better than the girls. They'll pump up their ego and make them their little precious boy. It's so destructive because you've created this manchild who expects women to just serve him, and he's not capable of doing things on his own. He doesn't have to do anything except be a man to be served. He also doesn't typically want to better himself or be a better man because he's already getting the praise for it.

Nicole: It almost becomes like a matriarchy where they're still asking their mom for everything, advice on everything. She's running their lives. A lot of it comes down to the marriage ceremony and how it works. When a man gets married, the father gives away the daughter to the groom. The man has already left his family and become independent on his own. The woman is still considered to be part of the family she grew up in because the father's job is to take care of the woman until she becomes married. Then he gives her away, entrusting his daughter to this man. That's why it is more acceptable for a woman to be a daddy's girl versus a man being a mama's boy.

John: Which brings us to the topic I picked today: how men can fix their relationships. If a man is unhappy in his relationship, thinking his wife or long-term partner is nagging him all the time, doesn't respect him, isn't attracted to him anymore, or they fight all the time, I'm going to walk through a five-step process that I use for coaching guys. This process will help a guy repair the relationship to get what he wants, to get the kind of woman he wants. These guys are usually complaining about women, and they don't understand there is a way to get a woman to act feminine, to respect you as a man, to have a high desire for you, to appreciate you, as opposed to what they're getting.

Nicole: Before you start, I think you should first talk about why men should fix their relationships. They're going to be like, "Why do I have to fix it? Why do I have to do this?" We did an episode on the surrendered wife, which is a book that a woman should read, where she can do some work to fix a relationship. But my belief is that the man is supposed to be the leader, so he's supposed to lead by example. It doesn't matter what she's doing; you're the one who's supposed to be showing her what she should be doing, and doing it by example. It usually only takes one person doing the right thing.

John: A relationship actually needs fixing, right? Well, it makes sense that the man would do it if he wants to be the leader and the authority because, like you said, if you're claiming to be the leader and you want to take charge and make the decisions, but the second you get upset or something happens and you do the wrong thing, you're undermining yourself. Even if it's hard, I understand when people's emotions are involved, it's sometimes hard to still do the right thing you think you should do. But I think it's important that men need to know that you are the one to fix it because you want to lead and be the authority, and that includes doing hard things in a moment where you might not want to step up and be the bigger person.

Nicole: Yeah, but you have to if you're going to be a leader. Because if you're following the lead of somebody and they're like, "Okay, well, don't get too emotional and don't call me names," but when they get emotional and start calling you names, how can you trust that person? They're telling you not to do this, but they're not doing it. So, I think men need to realize that they have to fix it because that's what the leader would do, that's what the authority would do. And they say they want a traditional relationship, but I don't think they fully understand that you have to be that man. Like, you do. And that's what you know, it's easy for you to understand, but I think that's why when they hear men have to fix it, they're like, "Well, why do I?" But it's like, if you want to be the leader and you want to be the authority and you want your woman to look up to you, you have to be worth looking up to and a good leader.

John: Yeah, and you have to do even more than what you're asking. So, I've been in many instances where I've been in some kind of position, either at work or even just leading a group of men, and they don't want to do the thing, or they complain about the work. So, what I've had to do is step up and do whatever it is and do it 10 times better and 10 times more. So, okay, if I'm doing it, then you can. There was an instance when I was doing software development, and it's a little technical jargon, but these guys didn't want to write unit tests for the test, which is like a way of testing the code before it's, think of it as making sure that it works, like quality control. They're like, "Oh, we don't need to do that. I don't want to do that. The requirements are too hard." And so, I was basically the manager, like the architect mentor guy, and I just got into the code and started doing the work and making unit tests and doing it. I was getting the work done 10 times as fast as they were because they were saying it would slow us down too much. I was like, "Well, I was getting it done faster than they were doing it plus doing the unit test." And then guess what happened? I didn't even say anything. I just started checking in the code. All of a sudden, these guys just start making unit tests and start doing the thing because they don't want to be, you know, because now they have an example. Now it's like, "Okay, someone's doing it right and doing it 10 times better."

Nicole: So, do men expect a woman to show them the example? Like you said with the surrendered wife thing, I'm not saying that women don't have things to work on and that they should be working on, but at the end of the day, you could be a very healed woman and handle things very properly, but that's not going to fix these men. And I think a lot of these men think that, well, if women are just completely fixed, then it won't be a problem, and they're really lacking the self-awareness and the growth that they need to go through. And again, the pride, like you said, and the pride in being the authority in their relationship. It goes back to just pride in general that they're lacking. But really, in the relationship, if you're like, "Well, why do I have to fix this relationship?" you're lacking pride in your choice in a woman. And just like I said to the women who don't respect the men they're with, you married this person as a man. You're not off the hook. You can't just be like, "Oh, I didn't know she was like this." No, that's not how it is because the person you married is still down in there, just like I would tell women, "Oh, well, he wasn't disrespectful, or I respected him then, but now he's done all this stuff." No, there's still a man you respect in there. You can't just blame it on the other person, but they don't want to take the accountability, especially if you're the leader and you want a traditional relationship and you're the man in the relationship. Yeah, you have to be taking accountability and responsibility. The buck has to stop here. That's where it has to be. You have to choose to take it up. So again, it's not a bad thing in the sense that it's empowering. The message is that as a man, you have the power and the influence. So, it's not a negative. Everyone always thinks, "Oh, you're beating up on men again. You're blaming men for all things." No, I'm trying to inspire and give you the power, the power that you have, which, yeah, there might be some hard stuff you have to do in order to gain access to that power, but you can gain access to that power, and that's a good thing. Hard stuff's normally worth the outcome. It's not a bad thing.

John: So, okay, so let's jump into the five steps. Essentially, there's a sixth one, which is, you know, at the end, but the first step is this, right? Which is understanding masculinity and femininity. This is the base, and the reason why this is so important is because I believe that 90% of the problems in relationships come from men thinking that women must think like they do and women thinking that men must think like they do. That's the biggest problem. And no one really tells you different. I mean, you hear the jokes and stuff like, "You know, this is a woman, and it's got all these knobs and dials, and this is a man, it's got like one button." So, you hear that kind of stuff, or you hear, "Women are emotional, and men are logical," but most people don't really understand masculinity and femininity. They still tend to think, "Oh, if this is something that I like or this would make me feel good, then the other person would be, it's the same thing," kind of with the five love languages. A lot of people are like, "Oh, well, everybody likes the same thing I do." Not true.

John: I know people have different Love Languages, but men and women, the masculine and the feminine, are completely different. A completely different set of desires, a completely different way of operating, way of communicating, what's important to them, what's meaningful. All those things we can get into, obviously, the logic and the emotion, and all that stuff too. But it's just, a man has to first start by studying this, by understanding what does it actually mean to be masculine.

Nicole: Right, what does it actually mean to be feminine? What are the differences? And then also, what are the differences in the communication? So, for instance, one that I think we've talked about a lot, which is that video of "It's Not the Nail" that I like to play, is that in communication, the primary thing that women are usually looking for is validation of their emotions. She just wants to know that the man understands how she feels and cares about how she feels.

John: Mhm, whereas the man's primary thing in communication is wanting to solve a problem or to be understood or to explain the thing. And those are so different. And so that's why so many men end up messing up in communication because they're just trying to explain why they did what they did, and that's not what a woman wants. And it creates everything. Women make a similar mistake when they're communicating with a man, not understanding what he wants out of that communication. But understanding that is the first step.

Nicole: True. You got some... What are your thoughts on the... I mean, I think that is important. We've talked on our own about realizing how different things are. Like, women, they enjoy the romantic things that involve more acts of service or like planning, you know, flowers or certain things like that. And so, women might think, "Oh well, he likes his candy bar, so I'm going to bring it to him," and that's a nice thing, right? And they start kind of doing similar things that their husband would do for them, but they don't realize that yes, that's nice, and your husband appreciates it, but it's not what makes him feel romanced or as loved as what we talked about in the episode about how women can be romantic, which is typically more like intimacy, like physical intimacy, and just intimacy in general is what men want. And it is a more simple thing.

John: Yeah, and I think women, as far as the romance, they want things a little bit more complex. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think that a woman does want to feel loved in different ways so that she does feel like you fully love her. Whereas like a man, a man just wants that physical intimacy. Like, most men's love language is physical touch, not all of them, but most of them because that is the way that they connect more deeply with the woman that they're with.

Nicole: So, I think, and then again, men are just like, we watched a clip from the breakup movie, oh, that was good, that I'm sure people have seen before with, uh, what's his name, Jen, um, what's his name, Vin, VIN spon. And like, she's like, "I needed you to bring 12 lemons home," and he's like, "I brought three," and she's like, "Yeah, that's not 12." And then he's like, "Well, I helped you out this, I did something you liked this morning," and she's like, "That has nothing to do with what we're talking about." So, he's operating from the place that a man would like, that would have made a man's day for the whole day, and he would have been like, "Yeah, that's great," but that's not, not that women don't enjoy that, but that's not going to fix all the problems. That's not going to make her feel more connected to you like it will, but not in the way that it does for men.

John: No, so men are viewing it from that lens, women are viewing it from their lens, rather than trying to see the other person's side. And like you said, that's just one of the ways that we're very different. The communication sort of thing is also a very big difference. I'm not saying that women don't ever want their problems to be solved or the man that they're with to help them solve their problems, but a lot of the time, I think the issue is that a woman doesn't feel heard at all.

Nicole: Mhm, because the man's just focusing on solving the problems, and a lot of times, it's more about the problem than about her. And so that's where she just wants you to listen because at that point, she knows that you care about her. If you're just listening, but if you're listening to her and all you care about is solving your problem so she'll shut up, that's how women feel if you're just trying to solve the problem, if that makes sense. So, even if you're solving the problem to help her, it feels that way.

John: Right, exactly. And that's something that came up in the comments too, of our videos, is the idea of how men and women experience intimacy differently. Because there was a lot of men that are like, physical intimacy is intimacy, it's emotional connection for men.

Nicole: Right, and women are like, that's not emotional connection for... I mean, it's partial, but it's like women's emotional connection is different. And so, a lot of women don't understand that physical intimacy equals emotional connection. That's how he feels like it's the same thing as if you're being ignored, you know, but emotionally.

John: But again, men have to understand that, yeah, the way that you feel about physical intimacy and feeling a connection and feeling emotional connection is exactly how women feel about romance. And so, if you understand that as a man, then you're like, "Oh wow, so I can do the equivalent of what I want from her." But you don't do the exact same. And that's what I was talking about, is like, if you, if you're thinking, if you don't understand the difference between masculine and femininity as a guy, you're like, "I'm going to give her a lot of physical intimacy, then she'll know I really love her," and that's not, it's not going to work.

Nicole: Right, exactly. Yeah, I think if both men and women take the time to actually learn what the other person wants rather than what they think that they want, then they'll understand their partner better, and they'll have a better connection.

John: Yeah. So, alright, so the Second Step, so once a man understands masculine and femininity, now it's time to start becoming masculine. Okay, so this is the process, right? Because before you're even trying to change anything in the relationship, you have to understand it first of all, and then you have to start embodying that on your own, not even trying to apply it to the relationship at this point. This looks like a man working on leadership skills, his communication skills, being more stoic, emotional mastery. Right, because if you're going to execute this in the relationship, you can't be flying off the handle, you can't be getting upset. You have to have a very, very long fuse and be calm. Because if you understand masculinity, I think the best example that I ever heard is, it's like the man, masculinity, is like the tree in a hurricane, and femininity is like the hurricane, because the emotional when women...

John: Emotions are all over the place. That tree needs to be able to withstand those hurricane winds, and so that's what a man has to be able to do. Being masculine is to not be blown all over the place, no matter what the weather is of the feminine woman that he's with. Then she can trust him because he's stable, right? He's not going anywhere. So, that is the next thing, to understand and to start applying these things. Now you understand what it is to be masculine. How do you do these things? This also involves taking over finances. A man should be upset about that. He should be in charge. There are so many men, and I did this at one point in my previous relationship where you give the woman the checkbook, and she pays all the bills and does all that stuff. You're working your job, but you're like, she'll take care of the bills and all of these things because that's how it operates for a lot of relationships, honestly. Because she's the dependable one, she's going to make sure they're done on time. And you don't want to do that as a man. You need to step up and take responsibility for the finances and the providing, and making sure that everything is taken care of. You should be dependable. Guys do say that they're like, she's dependable, gets done on time. Do they never think, I should probably be dependable and be on time? That's especially if you want a traditional relationship. That's what the leader does.

Nicole: Have you ever, in your life, in our time together, ever worried that a bill wasn't going to be paid on time, or that some trip that needed to be booked wasn't going to get booked, or whatever it was, wasn't going to get done?

John: No.

Nicole: You're very dependable, right? Because I'm going to make sure that I'm going to get it done. That creates a space in your head that you don't have to occupy with all those thoughts, and you can occupy with the kind of thoughts that a man would like them to be occupied. That's what a lot of these guys don't understand, and that's why also you're getting nagged. Because you're proving to not be stressed out because, yeah, she's going to do it on time, and she's going to be dependable. But that can be stressful, especially if she's paying all the bills and probably working too. A lot of these guys want to do 50/50. That's a lot of stress on her. I'm not saying that it means that she can act however she wants, but yeah, that's going to cause her to not be as pleasant and stress-free and be more emotional and things like that. Men supposedly don't want women to be. They don't realize that when you take over the authority, especially with the finances and things like that, you give her freedom to not be as stressed out, to be more feminine, to be more caring and nurturing, and all the things that you want her to be because you're taking that off of her shoulders.

John: Right. And I think going back to the first step again, the difference is that men's minds can compartmentalize things. So, I have a hard day at work, something's going on with this or this person's pissing me off, whatever. These are all going into little different compartments, and I can just show up here and operate and be fine. It's not because these things are in their compartments. Women really don't compartmentalize things mentally. It's all in one place. So, the bills are in the same exact place as everything else. And so that's why when you operate from a more emotional, vulnerable place, it's harder to do that because you are still caring about this other thing over here because you're just more sensitive to that sort of thing. So, it does get jumbled up.

Nicole: You are right. And it's also because men, like you said, they're more logical. They can kind of not let that bother them while they're focusing on this. But when you're a woman, and you're more emotional, and you have that more nurturing, caring part of you, you're going to care about something for longer than a man would. He'd be like, okay, well, I'll deal with that later, whereas a woman can't necessarily put that off because it's still bothering her.

John: Yeah. And so that makes a lot of sense. This is the stage where you start learning to take pride as a man, as being a man, right? Where you learn, yeah, learning to be masculine and doing things differently because you have to think, all right. And you know, a magic phrase is, "Here, baby, let me take care of that for you. Don't stress yourself out. Let me take care of that for you." That's a magic phrase because that's what you should be thinking as a man if you're being in your masculine. And for a lot of guys too, they might need also at this stage to do things like go to the gym and do masculine things and hang out with other men. It depends on where you are because a lot of guys might even be masculine, but they're not masculine in a relationship, which we'll talk about next. Because that's actually the next step. But yeah, this is critical. Once you understand the difference, then you have to start stepping up and actually now embodying these traits, which takes some time. It takes some work to figure these things out.

Nicole: That's true. So then that brings us to the third step, which is being masculine, bringing this masculinity into the relationship.

John: Right. So now that you understand the differences, and you're working on yourself to be more masculine, now you have to show up as masculine in the relationship. This means now that you're putting this stuff into practice, especially communication. So now you're practicing, hopefully, you have learned how to be more stoic. And now when you're communicating, you're focusing on validating emotions, understanding the different communication style that a woman has so that you can start doing the right thing. Because most of the guys that are in the situation where the woman is nagging them, she's not attracted to them, she doesn't want to have sex with them, a lot of that comes from the way that he's treating her. And he doesn't understand it because almost all the time, I hear a guy say, "She's just so ungrateful. I work so hard, you know. I make sure we have money. I take care of all of these things so that we can have a good life. And I do all these chores around the house for her, or fix things, and do these things, and she just, she's not appreciative. She doesn't care. She says I don't love her, but obviously, I do." And what they're missing is that every time that she's trying to talk or share how she feels or have some kind of emotional outlet, he's making her feel like it doesn't matter or that he doesn't care.

John: Care or what was that? Was that one where the guy, I read you an email or something, you told her to just calm down?

Nicole: Yeah, just calm down. That always works, right? So she's being told to calm down. That's why that resentment is being built up. Because nothing's ever being really resolved. And that's how women connect with everyone, really, with other women and with men, is opening up and talking to them. And even though that's not how men connect with women or even necessarily other men, that is your woman trying to connect with you. She's sharing this vulnerable thing with you, and you're telling her to just calm down or like get over it, or you know, whatever lines that are similar to that, that a lot of men use. And they would probably use with other men, right? But at the same time, it's like, this is your partner, like this is your girlfriend or your wife coming to you to try to talk to you about something that's bothering her. And granted, again, I don't ever think it's acceptable for people to act mean towards the person they're trying to express the things to, or yell at them or anything like that. But men don't really, I guess, see the connection that she's trying to have with you because he only really views physical connection as a connection in his mind. Again, going back to the first thing, yeah, that he doesn't understand that that is her moment to connect with you, right? Like when she's upset, and she's coming to you to try to help her feel better, it doesn't mean help her solve her problems necessarily. It means help connect to her so that she'll feel loved so she can deal with whatever she's got going on because that is what fuels her. And so they just get all sorts of mixed up when dealing with that. And then, like you said, they think they're doing everything right when they're rejecting her in the same way that they would feel rejected when they don't get physical intimacy.

John: Exactly. Like that emotional connection is so important to her that you essentially doing the same thing to her that she would do if she was like, "No, I'm tired." Telling her to calm down is the same as being like, "No, not tonight," every single night, you know?

Nicole: Every single time they try to come to you, that's the female equivalent. Yeah, it's brilliant, actually. That's very true. I know, I just thought of it just now because I was like, where did this come out of my head? But it's the equivalent of, "I have a headache," or "Not tonight," or "I'm too tired." That's exactly what it is because it's like, and then after so many times, what happens when a guy hears that so many times, and he just, he gives up. He's like, "I'm not even attracted anymore. I don't care." Just like, right. We saw that in the comments, right, on some of our videos, on some other videos that I shared with you, that I saw this. I was like, wow, this is crazy. We need to do an episode about this. And um, but it's the equivalent of what's already happened before that's happened. Is the woman's already gotten to that point with like, every time I try to share with him, every time I try to get emotional connection with him by expressing my emotions, and I need to vent, he tries to shut me down. He's like, "Nah, whatever," or he tries to fix the problem or whatever. It's like you can't just hear me and empathize with and just hear me out. And here's the other thing because guys will be like, "Well, she doesn't listen to me." But if you do a better job at validating your wife's feelings or your girlfriend's feelings and listening to her and not trying to fix the problem or tell her to calm down or whatever, she will have a better capacity to listen to you. And again, that's because you're leading by example, right? They're all intertwined together. But you can also teach her how to listen and be there for you when you're struggling with something, and you want to open up to her by leading by example in those situations. And like you said, most men aren't, and they don't even realize that they're making everything a lot worse. But maybe now that we put the puzzle pieces together for them, they'll realize it's the equivalent of them being rejected with physical intimacy when they're like, "Just get over it," or "Calm down," or just trying to fix the problem and not make her feel like he actually cares about what she has to say. And making that one shift is huge. I remember I first heard about kind of the idea where it was a light bulb moment for me when I was at a Tony Robbins seminar, and it was at Date with Destiny. So it was like a six-day seminar or 5-day or whatever. And at the end of it, he talks about masculine and feminine, and I hadn't heard of these concepts before. I mean, I heard the words, but then there was a point where he's talking about how a woman needs to vent, right? And it was like a lightbulb moment because I realized he's like, "You know, watch what happens if you let a woman vent and you don't try and shut her down or stop it. It's like she's all of a sudden gonna now be very much in a different kind of mood, you know?" And I was like, wow, this is true. This is so, you know, how many times as a man have I thought if a woman's venting, I'm like, "Why is she complaining? Why has she always got to be complaining about things?" or you know, just, "Why are you, like, just drop it. Like, don't you know?" And it's like, no, a woman needs to vent. It's not the same. You're helping her compartmentalize, like you said earlier. You're helping her get those things that are just still blaring in her mind out of there to clear the space for other things in her mind where she will be able to relax. That's exactly what that does. And most women have been in relationships where they've never been able to vent. And if you let her, she's going to be so appreciative. A lot of times, there's an exception we're going to talk about in the next step, but you're likely to get a very positive response from that, right? So it would be like the equivalent if we're going around the same thing as where the guy is constantly rejected for sex, but then one time he's enthusiastically greeted with a response of, "Yeah," you know what I mean? Like not just a yes, but an enthusiastic response. He's going to be pretty happy about that. It's the same equivalent, right thing. So yeah, so that's the third step then, is applying it to the relationship. So obviously, there's a lot of things to apply to the relationship, but the big ones are taking charge, becoming the leader by example, taking charge of the finances, which includes paying for things now, and you know, taking care of the woman, and bringing the communication skills up to allow women to vent, to all these things that, you know, a lot of guys don't understand, and that's why they think they're doing everything right.

John: Because they're doing everything right that they would if they were married to a man. They're still looking through the focus of what they want and what they would do, kind of going back to your other steps.

Nicole: Yeah, so next up, episode four, this is the repair, right? The digging up the old stuff and cleaning it out. This is when you haven't been to the dentist for a long time, to use the example, and you got your favorite... Yeah, this is some tooth extractions right. It's getting that deep cleaning where they have to give you the antibiotics because your gums are infected. This is like doing all that stuff, maybe some root canals in there, you know. That's a lot of stuff. It's a lot because you haven't been to the dentist in 10 years, you know. You haven't brushed your teeth in 10 years, whatever it is, things are rotting and falling out.

John: So at the surface level, a lot of guys, they don't understand why. Where's the woman I married? They're like, "Oh, commitment makes women not want to have sex. Commitment makes women turn into a raving bitch." No, what's happening underneath the surface is that it's years of neglect, right? In the way that we talked about. So in step three, we talked about how guys are now communicating, allowing a woman to vent, validating her emotions, understanding that. But if you haven't done that for years, it's the same thing as the guy that's so resentful because, I love your example, now I'm going to keep on using it, where he got turned down for sex for five years. And now if you talk to him about sex, he's going to blow up. He's going to put 50 comments in there and say, "Yeah, this crazy. I can't believe it. Like, why would you even marry me?" He's got a lot to say about it, right? He's holding in all that stuff, and he'll seem like a normal dude until you mention that, and then he will go off.

Nicole: Right, so same exact thing. And what happens a lot of times with a lot of guys that I've worked with, and I always warn them about it, is when they start acting masculine, and they start listening, the woman seems to get even more pissed. Well, because she's probably like, "Why haven't you been doing this sort of thing?" And now that she starts to feel a little bit safe emotionally, which again, probably the biggest thing about being masculine in a relationship is creating emotional safety. That's probably the number one thing. Now she starts to take the stuff that she's got buried down and start digging some of that up so that she can get rid of it. And it looks like now she's just spewing on you. She doesn't appreciate anything that you're doing, and she's just making it worse. And like, you shouldn't have even gone down this road because now she's 10 times worse. But it's because all that stuff has to come out. It has to come out.

John: So that's the hard part. As now, you got to realize, okay, I didn't mean to damage a woman for such a long time as a man, 'cause you didn't mean to. Guys aren't intentionally like, "Oh, I'm going to just be an asshole." Oblivious, yeah. You just don't understand. In fact, they think they're doing the right thing. That's why they get so upset. But you did, whether you meant to or not. It was neglect. You did not do what was necessary. Even if it's not intentional, even unintentional neglect is still neglect. It still hits a certain way. And so she's got all this stuff that has to come out. And so you've got to be patient, right? And even, you know, we went through this a little bit because of our situation when we first got together. And I didn't understand because I'm like, "Just forget the past." I just...

Nicole: Yeah, you literally told me, "Just let it go," or something. And I'm like, "This is not your decision to let it go." Like, yes, I want to let it go, but telling me to just let it go is not going to make it go away. Right? 'Cause I didn't want to deal with it because I'm like, "Alright, we need to move on past this thing." And I'm like, well, I... you know. And every time that you had brought it up in the past, I'm trying to explain away what I was feeling and what I was going through and why I did what I did. But you didn't want any of that. All you wanted for me to do was to genuinely care about... Well, I already knew your side 'cause you had immediately gone to defending your part, which is what typically men do. So I really already understood your part, but I didn't feel like you understood mine because every time we had the conversation, it was you defending yourself and instead of me getting to actually talk to you about it until that changed. You know, and you listened, and you completely listened, and you didn't defend yourself. And you know, you did it the right way. But that's also why we're sitting here because it's like we've already, we've done a lot of these things, and we've gone through a lot of these things. So we know how to fix it so that people can have a better relationship.

John: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I just, I didn't know. Like, I didn't. And then when it dawned on me, and I was like, "Oh, all I need to do, this will go away if I listen instead of..." And even, but at this point, I don't care if it goes away because however many times that you need to bring up a hurt that you went through and for me to empathize with that, that's fine. Well, like, it doesn't because I understand now that it's just something that you need. It's not anything against me.

Nicole: Right, because you weren't trying to penalize me or say what a bad guy I was or try to drag me through the mud. You're just trying to get empathy and understanding for what you went through and for me to care about that, to care that you had to go through those. It also makes women feel like a man won't do those things again, right? If he fully understands what happened to you.

John: Right, so like, even if they're in a relationship and the woman's like, "Well, you know, you hurt me when you did this," and a guy's just defending himself, it seems like he might do that again because he's defending his actions. But the second that he's like, "I'm so sorry," and like, say whatever you need to say about it, "I'm going to listen, and that won't happen again, and you know, I'm sorry that I did that to you," that makes her feel like he's not going to do this again. Or if it happens, then it probably wouldn't be as severe as it was before. And that's not specific to women; that's, you can flip it, and it still is exactly the same. Right? That's just communication in general in a relationship. Is that either party, when they have a grievance, they never want defense, they never want justification. They only want, "No, you're right." I just feel like since we're talking about women, that's like their thing.

John: They want to emotionally connect. That's typically something that men miss, but you're right, it's for anybody. It's more likely that men miss it than women do. It's also the thing that creates that sever, that emotional connection that women want.

Nicole: So, this is the stage, at stage four, we're going to get to the good stage, stage five. But stage four, you're going through the pit. You have to face all the stuff that you didn't intentionally do, but you did. You're going to have to dredge up the past to clean all the skeletons out of the closet and just sit there and listen and empathize. Don't defend. It's going to be tempting when you revisit the past to talk about why you did the things, but it doesn't matter. Just listen, just empathize, just care, just show that you care and bring it up yourself. Say, "I'm a different man now." I realize that'll really get going if you bring it up without her having to bring it up. I realized when I did this, when I said this. I just had a coaching client of mine I was talking to, and the woman he was dating, she was like a former model or something, and she had some weight thing in the modeling industry. He joked with her a couple of times, and he was like, "Yeah, of course, I'll love you no matter what, as long as you don't become obese." She didn't really say anything about it, but her countenance changed.

John: What should I do about that?

Nicole: Well, you could bring that up. You could say, "Hey, I was thinking about this this morning, and the other day when I said that, I just want you to know that I shouldn't have said that. Even if I was joking, even if I don't mean that, I know that probably hurt you." And you know, she'll have even more respect for you if you bring it up on your own and realize that you made a mistake. So, go back through your whole history and find the things, and instead of, you know, it takes away the ammo. Because if you bring it up, she can't hit you with it.

John: True.

Nicole: I mean, if you're tired of being hit with it in a fight or whatever, then you bring it up. Then how can she be like, "You did this," when you're like, "I just apologized for that"? I mean, don't say it like that, but you know what I mean. That's the idea behind it. So, that's the hardest phase, but that phase comes forth because you're not ready for that until you've gone through the first three phases. And that's where you really start to repair the relationship. That's where something that is unsalvageable suddenly becomes salvageable. That's where you're most likely to start seeing her change her actions. Up until that point, she's doubting you. She's like, "I don't know about this guy. Why is he suddenly acting this way? What is he trying to get from me? Is he trying to just get sex?" You have to be consistent. But once you start going into the past and validating the things that happened, and now you're cleaning it out, now all that stuff, because the biggest thing that destroys relationships is resentment. That's why the honeymoon phase ends. It doesn't have to end. It ends because you go from loving someone to hating them, resentment. It's so weird. It's like, "Oh, we were so in love, and now we hate each other so much." Because you built resentment, you got so much plaque on your relationship that it decayed. So, this is reversing that, and so you can go back to before that happened.

John: That's true. So, alright, the next one, step five, the last step.

Nicole: I thought you had six.

John: Well, there's an option that's like an asterisk. So, five is sex. Surprise, surprise, knew it had to be in there somewhere. And this, again, the first five have to be done first. You better say that one more time for clarification. Then to really solidify and improve the relationship, if you didn't understand what you're doing in the first four, I can almost guarantee that you're messing up in the fifth one. Because once you understand that women and men are different and how they view things are different, then you can understand how to get better at sex, at pleasing a woman. I think this is important. A lot of women complain about this, that a lot of relationships, it's not the primary thing, it's the other things that we talked about. But now you're ready to start improving in this area. So, I think as a man, a lot of men don't really invest very much in understanding how to actually please a woman. Because it's again, if you think like a man and you think the same, you're going to think, "Okay, well, I can just get turned on very quickly." It's like, you know, a woman's engine takes longer to warm up. And then also, you might think, "Well, you know, as things progress, harder and faster is better." Whereas women are more like, "As things progress, constant, don't change anything." It's like, so there's a lot of things that a lot of men don't understand about it because they're looking at it from their own lens.

Nicole: We've talked about this too, that even with men, when they orgasm, it's a very smaller window than a woman has. So, women want things consistent because if you do something right that gets her pretty far up the scale, she's going to be like, "Keep doing that." Right? Because you could try something new, and it's more down here. You could try something else that's kind of in the middle, but that thing still does that. Whereas with guys, it's not as much variance. So, and even if you're doing various things, you can still probably land on the scale somewhere similar.

John: Right.

Nicole: Yeah, so it makes sense why it's like that. But again, it's something that you can't just take your experience, man or woman, and then apply it to the thing. You have to, you know, obviously think of the other, your other partner, and things that you enjoy too. But it's a two-person thing, it's not a one-person thing.

John: Exactly.

Nicole: And there's so many things we could talk about, you know, we won't. But it's like, even just, a lot of men don't even understand that when they are trying so hard to give a woman an orgasm, it's actually making it where she's stressed out about it. Because women are thinking, "I want this. I don't want this guy to be disappointed." And so they're thinking more about that than actually relaxing.

John: It makes it hard, and then that's when the shoulder tap comes in. It's like, "Okay, all right, Slugger, get up here. Your time, you're out, you've been tagged out." You know, the guys that get the shoulder tap, that's why you're getting the shoulder tap, because you're making it too pressy. You're, you know, so there's a lot. There's a lot of guys think that they're good at sex, and they understand it, but they really don't. You know, I mean, again, you got to learn this, and if you haven't actually invested the time to learn it, and you're not going to learn it from the graphic videos that you see on the internet. That's not, no. You have to actually learn this. That will greatly... We talked about this in another episode, not to make this like the magic bullet you should rely on, but if you can be that guy and you can be really good at this, a lot of other things might not matter so much. Like, you could probably be pretty shitty, and you're still going... Don't say that. I'm not suggesting you should, but I'm just saying she's probably going to stay with you because, you know, so...

Nicole: Oh my gosh, don't give them that idea. Just, you know, God. I know what you're trying to say. You get what I'm trying to say. Don't tell them they could be shitty, and just... That's why we went through the other steps first.

John: That's right, that's right. But yeah, but this one is important, right?

Nicole: Yeah, it is, especially because that's how men connect. And, you know, I'm not saying that it's not about men, or they can't be focused on what they want to, but what good is being physically intimate if it's just about one person? 'Cause I don't think men would like it very much if a woman just took control and just did whatever she wanted and maybe left him high and dry, right? And I don't think, you know, that a woman would appreciate that either. So, it's like, it can't just be about one person. You have to keep everybody into consideration and talk about things and, you know, try different things and be open with each other.

John: Yeah, and like, the two biggest reasons why women aren't interested in sex is, number one, is because they lack the emotional connection. And number two is because they're not getting... It's not a fun experience for them, right? I saw one comment from a woman, and she was saying something, I think it was when the clip that said you're obligated to have sex with your partner, and she was like, "Well, my man's not getting me like turned on to like do the thing," which, you know, it's not to blame the man, but like you said, it takes more for a woman to get in the mood than it does for a man. And, yeah, you know, a man should want to get his woman in the mood. That should... He should have pride in that.

Nicole: Yeah, you know, and even just the little things, like the touch and how to touch. It's not something that you would just figure out on your own unless you actually study and really realize what, you know, because it is a lot...

John: Different. What should they study?

Nicole: I mean, the easiest thing to do is to ask, okay? And not have your ego in it, right? To be like, "Do you like softer or harder, faster, slower?" You know, or "Let me see how you do it." Right? These are, you know, it seems like pretty obvious things, but if your ego is in it, then you think you know what you're doing, and you're just attacking that thing, and it's not going to produce the result that you're going to... That you think that it's going to produce, right? And the warm-up sequence is a longer warm-up sequence than, you know, I would guarantee you 90% of the guys, the warm-up sequence is probably non-existent, but they don't realize what it is.

John: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so there's a lot to it. Like, it's something that you do have to actually devote some time to understanding as a man because it's not simple, but you'll be glad you did if you do. And also, a lot of women are different too.

Nicole: That's true. There's some... A lot of... There's less variation in men, in actions and motions and whatnot, but there is way more difference in women.

John: Way more.

Nicole: That makes sense because a lot of women never even have an orgasm, right? At all.

John: Right. That's sad.

Nicole: It's true. But yeah, so it is going to be a lot different. And like you said, the best thing is to ask because different people like different things.

John: Yeah, so that's... Those are the... Now we get to the aster one, which is, you know, the sixth step, which is... I mean, it's kind of... I don't make it a step because it's the maintenance of the whole thing because you can't just go through this and be like, "Done. Like, okay." No, you're going to have to continually keep going through this over and over again because you're going to forget some things, you're going to mess up some things, you're going to...

Nicole: Resentment is going to build up again. Like, you have to keep on clearing it, clearing it out.

John: Right. It's time to wrap this up.

Nicole: Yes, maintenance. Go back if you need to, consistently. No, but no, you got to go back through and you have to work on these things over and over because it's not just a one-and-done type of deal 'cause it's the ongoing maintenance of the relationship. But if you've done any sort of like healing or growing in your own life, you realize that it's a lifelong thing. It's not a bad thing. You just... It gets easier.

John: Yeah, you don't forget it, and sometimes you do forget it, and you just got to go back and try again. And hopefully, the ladies in the comments will back us up on this episode so that the men will know that this is what women actually want.

Nicole: So, this is what they actually want, regardless of what anybody says. I'm just saying, like, it will help to see some of that. So, if you're watching as a woman and you are like, "Okay," then leave a comment. Let guys know that this is true. This is what, you know, this is... Will repair a relationship as far as a man can do if he does these things.

John: True. So, all right. So, our thing for the week, it was yesterday, and John came to me with some feelings that he was having, and I tried in the beginning, I feel like I did a good job of listening to you and not defending, and then I messed up, and our conversation took a turn, and I got defensive, and I did the wrong thing. But I am sorry that I hurt your feelings and hurt you, and I never want to do that. I appreciate and I'm glad you came to me and told me about the things because I do...

Nicole: Appreciate you being open and talking to me about that.

John: Yeah, and we worked it out, and it was good. And I mean, I think we learned some things too about just, you know, some things really to kind of how we grew.

John: Up and some of the differences and some things that we definitely... you know, it's weird. Sometimes you just take for granted that everyone understands things the way that you do, and it's not necessarily the case. So, it was good. It was good progress. That's how you have to look at any sort of conflict or whatever comes up because if you don't, then you didn't really learn anything from the situation, and you're not really going to make a change. But, you know, it wasn't horrible, no, no, no, not by any means, no. But it just was one of our long conversations because it pivoted a few different ways.

Nicole: Like I said at the beginning, there were certain things in the beginning that weren't handled the best. But, you know, that is a learning experience. Like you said, with the steps, you just have to go back and do better next time and realize where you messed up. And even in that moment too, when we first had the conversation, you were upset, still visibly, and I was in the shower, and I was like, I have to just do the right thing. It's a reflection of me. It doesn't matter how upset he is, or it matters how upset you are, but it doesn't matter how he's treating me. I need to go make this right and do the right thing. And then I still ended up messing up further into the conversation. So, it's not always perfect, but I think it does help, especially with what you talked about too today on the episode. I think if men and, of course, women too, look at it like, I need to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, and kind of let your ego go and just make amends with the person that you care about, that will help you do those things.

John: Yeah, so I agree. And like I said, I mean, I was upset, and I didn't handle it well at the beginning. I'd been doing very good at handling communication very well, but I realized too that I don't even realize when I'm raising my voice because I'm excited, when I'm upset. And again, it's not like I'm screaming and yelling; it's just my tone is changing, and I'm not even aware of it. But I will be more aware of it now because I realize, oh, you know, because when you had said that to me, I was like, "What? I'm not yelling." And then when I look back and reflect on it, I'm like, "Well, yeah, I see how that is." You're probably like, "Well, I wasn't talking like I am now," because it was a difference in how you were talking. But yeah, it's hard sometimes to also, when you get upset, to be calm. And sometimes it is better to, when something upsets you in a relationship, to not even address it right then, to wait a little bit, as long as you're not resenting. Yeah, yeah, but you got to make sure you clear it out, but you just got to wait a little bit to the point where you can now talk about it in a way that doesn't bring as much emotion into it. Right, you can, you know, sometimes when you're, you get the echo in your head of the things that are kind of snowballing in your own head, and you build it up to more, and then when you're trying to talk about it, it's not a good time to talk about it because you're not in the right headspace.

Nicole: Yeah, and I think what I realized too is that we're very similar on a lot of things, and we have a very natural connection. But there's still part of our relationship, like certain things where I have to work extra hard because it's not as natural. Like, and I mean that it's not my natural instinct to just know what to do that you would like or that you prefer, things like that. And I think that I'm just used to everything being so natural, and that I have to focus more on those things that I wasn't putting as much focus in that I really need to. And I still was focusing, but it wasn't to the extent to really drill it in my head.

John: Yeah, and I think that that's important for people to know because it's not like our relationship is hard. And even if I have to focus on something more so because it's harder for me to comprehend right away and just go with that, doesn't make our relationship bad or wrong. Like, it actually makes it so that you're putting all this effort into the person that you care about. And I think sometimes too, and I'm sure other people can realize that when you do have a good relationship and things are easy, flowy, and good, that sometimes you might not realize that you have to put as much focus into one thing as you really need to because you're just so used to that.

Nicole: Yeah, and I don't feel like I was taking it for granted, but I feel like I just wasn't used to putting in that much focus on something. And that I realized that I do need to do that to give you what you need and deserve.

John: Yeah, I mean, it goes both ways. It's hard to know that sometimes. And that's why it's like the same thing where, you know, when I was struggling with the communication a lot, or and then I had to really put a focus on the communication, and I improved a lot in the communication. Doesn't mean I'm perfect. I still have slip-ups, but now it's become more of a thing that I'm much more aware of. Right, so yeah. But, well, thank you, and thank you for all the birthday...

Nicole: Yeah, we forgot these. Oh, please don't make noise.

John: We're making the noise. That was definitely... this sounds like one of those yodeling things.

Nicole: Alright, well, happy birthday, John.

John: Well, thank you. And that is it for this week. Through every... we find our way.