John: A lot of these guys think that the problem is their girlfriend or wife is not hot enough. They push her to lose weight, and then when she does, they're still not happy. It's always something else. It doesn't need to be at the level that guys think it needs to be, with this artificial world of attractiveness. You want to be sensitized to the stimuli that you have so you can enjoy it more. Just like I used to fast every day until dinner, so every dinner tastes so good. Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault.

Nicole: Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other become better equals one better than perfect relationship. And every week, John's biceps get bigger, and he's not going to be able to fit into his shirts anymore. We're going to have to paint a shirt on you.

John: I know. I was going to wear my jacket, but I've worked too hard to wear my jacket. I don't know what you're going to do though, because that's like a buff person shirt brand, and you're about to bust out of it. We might have to paint it on. I might have to start running again, but I'm enjoying lifting every day now. So, for a bit. But yeah, so it is your week for the episode of your choosing. So, I thought, and you thought it'd be good to talk about how people, both men and women, are never satisfied. Can you actually be satisfied in your relationship?

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, that's a good little tidbit to add on. We would obviously say yes, but we'll get more into that in the whole episode. So, I guess I want you to start because you've actually dealt with this a lot lately with some of the guys you've been talking to. So, from a guy perspective, what do you see as far as them never being satisfied?

John: Well, I mean, I'm starting some relationship coaching, so what we're doing with the podcast for men, relationship coaching. And I've been talking to a lot of guys, obviously. One of the things that's come up is the problem that some of the guys have mentioned. They're well-meaning; it's not that they're trying to be this way, but they feel like they're built in such a way, and not only do they feel like they're built in such a way, society and the common culture dictates that men are biologically wired to seek out to spread their seed far and wide. They're not monogamous, or humans aren't meant for monogamy, some people are saying that from evolutionary biology. So, guys are saying that they have a problem that they're with this girl, and they see other girls and sometimes think maybe they're more attractive, maybe they should be going after those girls.

Nicole: And it's terrifying as a woman. That's a very real fear that women have because they are aware that men are very physical and want younger, prettier women. It's kind of terrifying being a woman, especially if you're with a guy like that. These guys don't typically tell the women they're with, like, "Hey, this girl's hotter than you," but sometimes they do things that you can tell they're feeling that way. Or they'll ask, say, "Hey, maybe you should get a boob job or lip injections."

John: Yeah, it's so hard because there are ways that you can change your physical appearance, like those things we just talked about. But it shouldn't be that way. No woman wants to feel like she has to have a boob job or lip fillers for a man to love her. And that's probably why we see so much of this stuff these days, and so many people trying to look the same. It's like an arms race. They're just trying to be as hot as they can so maybe a man won't leave. But there's plenty of men that have been also with really attractive women who still cheat on them. I mean, look at Beyoncé. Not everybody might think Beyoncé is the hottest woman in the world, but she's an attractive woman, and she gets cheated on by Jay-Z. There's plenty of other people who are attractive like, I know there is an attractive woman to every man who has been cheated on by another man.

Nicole: And so as a woman, it almost feels like you're never fully safe because men are so physical. You're like, okay, well, he likes me now, but he can get so desensitized to how I look because he sees me every day. And that's another thing too, that I think men don't really process, is that when they are with a woman, and they live with her, and they see her when she has no makeup on, looking a mess, and when she's looking good, they've become normalized to that. But then they go out somewhere, and they see this really hot woman, and they don't realize they're seeing her at her prime a lot of the time. They're seeing her dolled up to the best of her, and they don't live with her, so they don't see when she doesn't have her makeup on, and that she looks just like the woman that you're already with, to some degree. So, they'll throw away the thing that they've gotten used to for something new, and then that becomes old, and then they keep the cycle going.

John: Yeah, it comes down to never being satisfied. And we'll talk about it more too, about how women can also exhibit the same thing, but not in the same way I think that men do. The solution for men is to resensitize yourself. Rather than talking about the solution, it's easier to talk about what causes the problem. Is this actually something that is biologically wired and that cannot be overcome, and you just have to deal with it as a man? And the answer is no.

John: I believe that biologically, yes, men are more wired in this way. I think that's true. Everyone knows this from experience. Everyone knows a guy, right? And guys know this as well because you've felt this. And women, it's not as much of a drive. There's a different form of it that has less to do with physical attributes. For me, it would be more about a successful man, I would think. Or like, has a better job, a better way of handling himself, more masculine, maybe. Those sort of attributes rather than physical.

Nicole: Yeah, my eye is... I ate habanero and touched my eye. But it's okay. Should I sing the eye? I will soldier through it, but just know I'm not crying. So, unless I'm actually crying, it's bringing a tear to your eye.

John: So, talking about the men aspect of it, the problem is not the biological wiring because that's not that difficult to overcome. The problem is desensitization. That's the word I'm looking for. It's a very difficult word. But the problem is that, look, as a man, you go into the world, right? You go on Instagram, butts, you know? That's your first... you know what I mean? It's very hard to not... and then you go to the gym, and it's like yoga pants. How far can you stick the yoga pants up the ass crack? It's amazing. This is not normal, but it's become normalized. Every single girl, you see their ass cheeks everywhere you go, not even just the gym now because everyone wears yoga pants everywhere. So, this is the reality. There's rampant porn; it's easy to get. You've got photoshopped images, obviously, and influencers and all that. Guys are constantly bombarded with images. And then, even just the alterations that women make, right? They get dolled up. A lot of times now, you see women that have had all kinds of surgeries and stuff walking around. They all look kind of the same with the big lips and all the stuff, and the hair extensions, and the crazy eyelashes. So, what I'm saying is that guys see all this, and then it awakens that genetic programming.

John: Counter to this is really, really simple. It's not that this is a problem that you just have to live with. It's that you don't look. You cut as much of that out as possible. For example, unfollowing all your Instagram models that you follow, or people with their butts out. Or even on the For You page, like you saw my For You page before. I was like, you do a thing on there to say, "I don't want to see more of this." And then now, it doesn't show me any of that stuff. And if I go out somewhere and I see something, I look away because I don't want to see that kind of... So, when you do that, then you resensitize yourself. And you keep yourself sensitized to the woman that you're with. Because look, an attractive woman that you find attractive should be enough for you. And you should continue to be attracted to her. The reason why it doesn't feel like enough is like the same thing, let's say that you've ever gone not eating sugar for like a week or two. You know, just like, "I'm going to eat healthy and just eat broccoli or whatever."

Nicole: I tried to not eat carbs for like three days one time.

John: Okay, yeah, and almost passed out.

Nicole: So, that ignited my hypochondria. So, I was like, back to carbs.

John: But if you're all like, no, if you go no sugar for a while, if you're just eating like chicken and rice, broccoli, very bland, you don't crave it anymore. And when you eat something sweet, it tastes so sweet. I mean, it's like, wow, I can't eat this whole piece of chocolate cake. One little bite is enough. And so, that's because your taste buds are sensitized to the stimuli. And right now, just in the world that we live in, we're desensitized to a lot of stuff. We have phones in our pockets. We have all of the stimuli constantly. They call it hyperstimulus, and it desensitizes us to the normal experiences of life, which should be wonderful, but they don't feel wonderful because of that thing. And so, we need more. It's like a drug addiction. And I think that's what the core problem is for men, is that they don't realize this is happening.

Nicole: Well, I think you should talk about the story about the ship because I think that's good.

John: Oh, like if a guy were on a ship for two years, right? And there was no women on that ship, and there was no pictures, there's no internet, there's no pinup, you know, or anything, magazines, anything. Didn't see a woman for two years, he'd probably faint seeing an ankle when he got back.

Nicole: Exactly, exactly. Back in the day, exactly.

John: So, two things would happen. One, he would be extremely sensitized to any woman. And so, it doesn't need to be at the level that guys think it needs to be with this artificial world of attractiveness in order to be attracted. It doesn't need to be at that level. It's ridiculous, like gigantic fake butts and all this stuff that's not even natural. And huge fake eyelashes and all this stuff. It doesn't need to be at that in order to be attractive. So, he would be resensitized to what his sensitization should be, maybe even less than that because he's been deprived, right? Because you'll probably see some, you know, if you think about it, in a village or whatever, growing up in history, men would be in a tribe. There would be maybe 15, 20 women they see in their life, really. And then the second thing that would happen is that he would be appreciative of what he has. So, he would enjoy the experience more of what he has. So, it's almost like even a selfish thing, right? Because as a man, as a person, you want to be sensitized to the stimuli that you have, so you can enjoy it more. Just like, hey, everybody should appreciate what they have.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly, in my opinion. And you want to be able to...

John: Enjoy that experience just like I used to fast every day until dinner, so I wouldn't eat breakfast or lunch. Around 5:00, man, every dinner tastes so good. I was like, I don't care what we're eating; it's just so good. Like, I just can't wait to have food.

Nicole: Yeah, and so having that desensitization that we have now ruins all the experiences for us.

John: I agree. You know, and it also causes you to have problems where you think, you know, because a lot of these guys, they think that the problem is that their girlfriend or wife is not hot enough. And they're like, well, if she lost 20 lbs, they push her in that direction, you know? And then she does it, potentially, you know, and then he's still not happy. Then it's something else, and then she's constantly chasing, trying to be attractive to him, but it's not something she can even attain because it's not really based on that. Like when we were talking about this.

Nicole: Yeah, and I know we'll get into it more in this episode, but I would say if I'm in a relationship and I've been in a relationship where I haven't been as attracted to the person, and I should have seen this as a red flag or a wakeup call or hey, what are you doing. But I would say that if you are constantly looking at other people and being like, oh well, my partner's not as hot as this person, and I'm kind of liking how this other person out here looks and, you know, leaning more that way, that there's something else missing in your relationship, and it's not just the attraction. And what you and I were talking about, and you mentioned, and I think it's true, is that it's intimacy. It's this connection with the person that brings you more than just what they can physically, so you're more attracted to them for more than the physical things.

John: Right, and when you have that, like what you and I have, there's like nothing that can penetrate that. And we've been together every day, basically, for three years.

Nicole: Every single day, yeah. And I am nowhere near any less attracted to you. If anything, I'm more attracted to you, and I don't even know how it goes more because it was already at the maximum to you than I was when I first met you. And it's because we have such a deep connection with each other, and like, nobody could make me tempted to leave this situation. And like, I don't have any celebrity crushes, but I would say even the celebrity crushes I used to have could knock on my door and be like, I'll give you everything you want, and I'd be like, absolutely not. And I've never felt that way. It's going to sound like I'm just making this up, I'm just saying a bunch of whatever, but it's 100% true. And I'm sitting here telling you that I did used to look at other people when I was in other relationships and try to look available, but I would never be unfaithful. That's the thing, is like, I wasn't looking for somebody to cheat on my boyfriend at the time with, but I did want to hold his hand less. I didn't want to look connected to this person because I felt like I was out of their league, and that's horrible. But you know what, I'm telling you the horrible part so that you'll believe the part that I'm telling you that seems less believable, is that you can find a person that you are so attracted to and so connected to that almost everybody else, right, in the whole world disappears to some extent. Like, they're still there, but it's almost like they're NPCs, just like, exactly, you know, faceless people or something. Like, you don't notice them. You're not like, oh, that guy's hotter, that girl's hot. You're just like, there's a person.

John: Yeah, yeah. And I feel exactly the same way. And it's like, and I think, you know, like you said before, maybe, you know, if you're making yourself available in the relationship, it's not like you're going to be unfaithful, but maybe if the celebrity crush does show up at your door, you'd be like, okay, we're breaking up because I'm going with this person now. It would be more tempting, right? Just like these guys who are like getting more and more tempted by these women. Like, you don't know if maybe some girl that they think is super hot is going to tempt them to leave their relationship, and the relationship's otherwise good, for the most part. And how does that make a woman feel? And then this guy is leaving for... Actually, I saw a quote, I think it was on TikTok, that people sometimes will have 90% of like everything they want in a relationship.

Nicole: Yeah.

John: And they'll be missing the 10%, and then they'll see the 10%, which in this case that we're talking about, maybe the attraction, they will leave the 90% for the 10%, and then realize that all they really have then is the 10%.

Nicole: Yeah, and I'm not saying that always happens, but some of these situations are like that, where like they have something perfectly good, and same with women too, like they have a perfectly good guy, and they otherwise like him, but maybe they saw this successful guy, more successful guy, hit on them at somewhere that they were at the grocery store, and now they're like, hm, well maybe this is a better way, maybe I do deserve this, right? Or something like that. So, it's very tricky, you know? And I think it goes back to appreciating what you have. If you have something good, if you know you have something good, otherwise, if you're in something that you're like unsure about, or you know, you aren't as attracted to them, and you know, you owe it to the person to have a conversation, see if you guys can fix it first and foremost, and connect better, have deeper intimacy because that might solve all your problems.

John: Yeah, if that doesn't work, then it's time to reevaluate the relationship and potentially end it, in my opinion.

Nicole: Yeah, and I agree. And it does, I think it does come down to the intimacy is what people don't realize, is that if you have that depth of level of intimacy, then you're not interested, you're not looking for somewhere... Well, and here's the thing to think about with this, right? Because they're kind of connected, right? So, if you are in a position, you're in your relationship now, and if that perfect person, like I guess say as the guy, like the most attractive woman you ever seen came along, and you would leave your relationship for that person, whatever it is for females as well, with the perfect guy or whatever, then there's two things that are going to happen here, right? So, one, it means that you are lacking the intimacy, first of all, because you should be with a person that you'd be like, there's nothing, there's no other person that could come, you know, because if you don't have that, then you do have a lack of intimacy. But also, it's cyclic because if you are doing that, if you're out there looking, and you're...

John: Thinking that someone else could come along that's better prevents you from having intimacy. You're not as attached to that person because you're keeping yourself available to some degree for something better to come along. You're making it so the other person, the one you're in the relationship with right now, cannot be as intimate with you. They can't feel safe because they know, even if you're not saying you're looking around, when your Instagram is still public, when you're still posting thirst traps, they know. And so, they're not going to feel safe, and if they're not going to feel safe, you can't have that level of depth of intimacy. There's a gridlock there, right?

Nicole: Yeah, and that's why you have to work on building that intimacy. When you do have it, it's interesting. There's a pretty famous author and therapist, Esther Perell. I've read most of her books. She wrote a book that's famous on this topic called "Mating in Captivity." A lot of people have read that book. We're going to do a whole episode on this, I think.

John: Oh yeah, unless you want to add it in here. I don't know, we'll see. Maybe I'll just add a little bit, and then we could always talk more about this. But she was saying one of the main points that she says that a lot of people repeat is that intimacy and sexual attraction are diametrically opposed to each other. So, meaning that the more you have intimacy, what she calls familiarity, the more you know a person, the less mysterious they are, the more intimate you are with them, then the less sexually attracted you'll be to them. And I think a lot of people operate from that, and at a certain level of depth, that is true. But I think there's another side to it, which is when you push through to a deeper level of depth of intimacy, the relationship between intimacy and sexual desire swaps. So now, instead of being diametrically opposed, they become correlated. So, the deeper the intimacy goes, the more the sexual attraction goes. But it requires you to reach a depth level where that crossover occurs, and most people don't reach that. It's a level where you're attracted to the person for more than the physical. So, if for some reason you lost a bit of the physical attractiveness, you're still very attracted to that person because of the connection you guys have and who that person actually is.

Nicole: Right, but yeah, we'll have to do a more in-depth discussion because I think intimacy is a very important part of relationships. It does deserve its own whole episode because it's a lot to get into. And so many people have such shallow relationships. And to speak to the point, we were talking about this a little bit too on the way over. I don't know if it's a good example, but I was saying, who's a famous guitarist? Oh, you said Van Halen.

John: I said Van Halen, but maybe it's more about like Slash.

Nicole: Slash, okay. Slash, I mean, that's kind of old, but okay. If you got Slash's guitar, you would think it is beautiful, not because it might be dinged up, it might not be in the best condition, might have some stickers on it, it's seen some wear and tear, but if you were to get it, you'd be like, this is the most beautiful guitar I've ever seen because it's Slash's guitar. When you have a level of love and intimacy for your partner, you're attracted to their body because it's their body, no matter what it looks like. It's the same kind of relationship in the sense that it's not about the guitar; it's about the fact that Slash owned that guitar. That's why it's a collector's piece. That's why you care about it. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people miss because they've never experienced it, so they don't realize that it's possible. A lot of people don't experience it, and that's why that book, "Mating in Captivity," is so popular because that is a lot of people's reality.

John: Exactly. And that's why we started this podcast because it's not the only reality. Not to sound conceited, but we want people to experience what we have: the connection, the appreciation, the love, the respect, and the intimacy. Everybody should be in a relationship and be like, "I am so fulfilled. I'm not looking for anything else. I appreciate what I have." And that's why we started this whole thing to begin with.

Nicole: Exactly. And it is possible. I know that even back when I was single, if I watched something like this, I'd be like, "Yeah, okay." But when you do experience it, you realize that a lot of the cliché things that people say are actually true. So, if people don't give up hope, they can really achieve the things that we talk about, especially this. And some of that might be like men not being tempted, not tempting themselves by following other women or actively looking up other women, so that they feel like, "Oh well, I could have a woman like this." And women appreciating the good man she has and not being like, "Oh well, what if I could get this other more successful guy or this guy who looks like this?" It all boils down to increasing your intimacy and having deep and meaningful conversations. And if that doesn't bring you what you want, then leaving the situation.

John: Absolutely. And I think another element of it that I was talking to one of the guys about that I was coaching was the idea of romance, which can also be another topic for a podcast because just what that is and how can guys actually learn that romance is complicated.

Nicole: It is complicated.

John: It's almost like they're looking at a woman like the woman they're with at the time of their obsession. And yeah, maybe they're womanizers, moving from woman to woman, but at the time, they're obsessed with one woman and make her feel like she's the only woman in the world. And yeah, maybe she knows this guy is just a seducer or whatever, but she appreciates his focused attention because he's treating her like she's a work of art, like a masterpiece that he must study and know every detail of and explore. Having that kind of mindset is such a different mindset. It's being a connoisseur.

Nicole: Right, if I go to a restaurant, if I go to Golden Corral, okay, and I go to the buffet, and I'm like, oh, get some mashed potatoes, have some meatloaf, it's like, you know what I mean? I'm just shoveling food in my mouth. I don't know what any of that stuff tastes like. I mean, maybe the mashed potatoes are pretty good, okay, fine, whatever, but I haven't really enjoyed or savored the food. You're having so many, and yeah, not focusing on it. It just filled a hole in my stomach, that's all it did. And I think a lot of men can treat women in relationships that way. I mean, I'm sure women can too, but I can speak from a male perspective in the sense that that's why there's no romance for one, but also that's why they're not happy and satisfied.

John: Because if you're just treating the woman you're with like a buffet at the Golden Corral, then you're like, oh well, maybe this buffet is better, or like this food is, you know, you're just sampling all these different dishes. Whereas if you're more like a connoisseur, like having a fine wine or you sit down at a nice five-course dinner, and you cleanse your palate, you know what I mean, and enjoy the experience and the texture, and you notice the quality of the food and the aroma and all those things. Again, that idea is a romantic idea. So that's a hint for you know how it is. But then, how much more pleasant, how much more of that food do you enjoy? It could even be similar food, right? But because you have savored the experience, because you have looked at it from those eyes, from the eyes of the connoisseur, as a master, and so when a man looks at a woman as if she's a masterpiece, a work of art that he must explore and know every curve of her body, it's a different level of satisfaction than he would treating her like a buffet.

Nicole: Right, and so that's a large part of it too. It is psychological. As a man, not only that, but her response from that guy is going to be so much more because, I mean, you tell me, do women appreciate that? I think so, without going into a totally another topic, 'cause we've hit so many. Like even in the sexual sense, I've never understood women who want to be like beat up and demeaned because I'm like, I want a man to treat me like a goddess, like in that scenario. I want to be appreciated. I don't want to be torn down, especially in such an intimate act. Right, so it makes sense to me, but I don't know the thought process fully of women who, and maybe it is more of like a validation-seeking thing, you know? And that is usually a woman has some other things she probably needs to work on to feel good about herself so that she does not need to seek validation in that way and tolerate those sorts of things. But it makes sense to me. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar or whatever the saying is. But it makes sense that that's a more, and it's more sustainable. 'Cause what if you actually like one of those women? Now you're already going down the right path, right? 'Cause you already romanced her, she's already has positive feelings about you, rather if you meet a woman and you're like, you're not that hot anyway, and she's like, oh well, I have to prove to this guy that I'm hot, and then you end up taking her home because you manipulated her in that way, she's always going to think back to how you told her she wasn't that hot and like said all these other kind of like almost negative things to get what you wanted from her, you know what I mean? So if you start off on the right foot, you're already going in the right direction if you decide to pursue something with that woman.

John: Exactly. But I think something too for us to discuss in this episode that goes with people not being satisfied is the access that they have to people with online dating and Instagram, social media, all of that. Because that does also make people not appreciate what they have because they can be like, oh, you know, well, whatever, I'm going to go get on this dating app, and I'll have like however many matches by the end of the day, so it's not that big of a deal. Like, I can just go on there, and I can find someone else. And back before that, it was harder to meet people, and it took more effort, and so people probably appreciated more of what they had because it wasn't as easy to get into another relationship. And like, yeah, dating apps are a good thing. I mean, we met on a dating app, so I'm not saying that they're horrible, but in the sense of some people not feeling satisfied with what they have, it just makes things worse.

Nicole: Absolutely, yeah. It's funny 'cause that's exactly what I was going to talk about next. We're so connected that I can just read your mind. The disposable culture that we live in, where people are disposable. So much of society is like that today, where it's like, oh, can even, you know, the friendships that we have, and we're Facebook friends, we have, you know, it's like they're not really have any depth to them, and so you can just toss people out. We talked about in the last episode about the oneness, or I think it was the last episode, but, and how, I mean, that is the same idea, is like, you're, when you're becoming one, you're not treating a person as disposable. It's like, well, if you don't suit my needs, chopping off half of you, you know? If you become one, it's like if you're going to dispose of that person, you have to cut yourself in half. And I think the thing about it too is it's like the reason why so many people are in shallow relationships is because if you treat people as disposable, you're never going to get deep enough. Yeah, 'cause it takes work to work through the issues in love with respect to get down to. Easier to dispose of people if you're not fully in, if you're one foot in the door and one foot out. And I mean, that kind of goes back to people living basically as two individuals under one roof, is that's almost living one foot in and one foot out. When you get married or whatnot, it's like you have to be all in, 'cause then you'll actually work on the relationship.

John: You'll appreciate it, but yeah, with the dating apps and all that stuff, social media, people are just so quick to throw somebody away. And I'm not saying that it's bad to break up if you feel like it's not a good relationship for you, but if you feel like you basically have everything and you can look at a person and be like, "I would marry them," and you can talk to them and you can work things out, then there's no reason to throw that away. Especially, I feel like, in the sense of men, for something physical, because that's going to fade.

Nicole: Right, exactly. That's the other part of it. Well, one of the guys asked me, he was like, "I don't know, like when does it wear off, and you're going to want a different girl because this girl is not as attractive to you anymore because of time?" And I was like, "You're thinking..." because he's like, "You know, it's like around three years or so, and then the attraction starts to fade." And then I was like, "Look, you're talking about... let's say that you're in a 5-year relationship. Well, let's say that you meet a girl when she's 30, and now she's 35. She's going to have aged in 5 years. It's not just it wore off because it's not new anymore, you know what I'm saying?" That's what he was thinking. I was like, "What happens in 10 years when she goes from 30 to 40? You can't base it off of that. You can't think of it that way."

John: Well, and him already thinking that way is so damaging to the relationship. Being like, "So what do I do when it stops, when she stops being attractive?" It's like, you're going to stop being attractive to her in some degree because you think that way.

Nicole: Right, so it's like shooting yourself in the foot. And who wants to have... I mean, again, it comes back to the oneness and the security, which is required for the intimacy. Because it does put you at this gridlock. It's like, if you can't provide your partner with the safety that you're going to love them no matter what and be attracted to them no matter what, then how can they provide you with that safety? And then now, if you're both like, "Well, I can't put myself in the vulnerable position of being like, 'I will love you and be attracted to you no matter what.'" And what if they don't feel the same way? And now, yeah, you can't have that level of intimacy. It's conditional love. Like, "If I'm not attracted to you, I can't be the person that I want to be," is basically what he's saying. Like, and what am I supposed to do? Like, if he's saying he can't be attracted to her because it's diminished, how does he think he can rebuild that?

John: Right, it sounds like his only option, he thinks, is to find somebody else. But he literally just said that after like the three-year mark, it goes away. So, is this why men also stay single a lot of the time? So then they could date somebody for like three years, throw them away, and then get someone new, and then it gets old, and then he throws them away and gets a new person, and continues the cycle.

Nicole: Yeah, because I do feel like it's men who typically would do that more. You do see men that are more like perpetually single men than perpetually single women, because most women want to be in a relationship. They're not just like, "Oh well, I'll get bored of a guy in 3 years, so I'll just date a guy for three years and then get a new one." You know, more successful. Well, and you know, it's harder for women too, because we do get older, and men value youth. But it's like, you know what? I feel like he's created a situation and a problem that he almost can't even fix unless he finds somebody that he gets that intimacy level with where it transcends the physical. And I think the scary thing about it for women is that a man can seemingly have everything else good in the relationship, and then the physical side of it could change for him, and that changes the entire... he throws everything away. Whereas I think for women, more so, I would say that it sometimes it appears that way, that women would be like, "Okay, I'm bored of this guy after three years." But it's more likely that if a woman's in a relationship where all of her needs are being met from an emotional standpoint, then she's going to be happy. She's not going to be looking for... whereas it's more likely that a guy will be like, "Okay, well, yeah, I mean, everything is good, but... yeah, this is the hottest girl that I could get. Like, could I do hotter than this?" You know what I mean? It's like, and that's the... which, again, it's not even to knock guys because a lot of guys honestly feel like that's just how they're wired, and that's... they can't help it. They don't want to be that way. But there are things that he can do, like he said, that can prevent that from happening.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And reaching that level of intimacy that I feel like guys really don't understand. Intimacy, and maybe they'll read a book like that Esther one that you were talking about, and then they're like, "Oh well, I'd rather have desire over intimacy." So then they don't even want to work on it because they're like, "I'd rather have the sexual part." And then that is... that's why they're also searching for the hotness, you know, the attraction.

John: Right, but it ends up being like, the desire, you can have the desire with the intimacy, which we'll have to do a whole episode on, like we talked about. But yeah, they would rather choose the desire. And so that's why they're so like, "Well, everything's good, but this isn't the hottest girl." And like you were talking about when we kind of discussed this a little bit, is that how does he even think it's going to be that much better with a hotter girl? Like, the desire might actually be less because, you know, if she feels like she's out of your league, she might not treat you very well.

Nicole: That's true, exactly. So it's like, they think that that's going to fix all their problems or give them all the things that they want, and sometimes they're wrong. I mean, I'm not saying that maybe it is better for them, I don't know. But I know that not all the time it's going to be better, because I'm sure there's some women out there who aren't going to treat them, you know, the way that the woman he left treats him. And it's not going to be markedly different. I think, for some reason, guys have it in their head that it's going to be markedly different if this woman that you rate is a seven versus a woman you rate as a nine. First of all, when the lights go out, it's go. But then even if the lights are on, when your face is that close, you know, I mean, I'm just saying, like, you know, you can't... anyway, you... it's just... you think that, you know, it's not like she's going to have a magical vagina.

John: That's what I guess they think it's like. It's still going to be a very similar experience, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I get it, but at the same time, it's like if you really think about this, you think that it's going to be so much better than what it is actually going to be. And then you're going to become sensitized to that anyway, so that'll become the new normal. So, you know, you might as well just have the normal that is good than try to think that you have to up it so many levels.

Nicole: But since you were actually talking, this thing came into my mind. Do they even want the hot girl for who she is or for what it makes him appear? And that's another piece because it sounds like he wants her more as a trophy, right? Like, I want to get the hottest woman I could get, not I want to get the most amazing, kind woman who treats me like a king and is just amazing. He's not saying that. He's just saying I want the hottest woman I could get. So that makes me feel like he's not even doing it for her, right? That he's using her for her hotness to get validation himself.

John: Yeah, well, and I mean, it goes both ways because women do use men for the validation of the status. Having a doctor, a lawyer, you know. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But in the instance we're talking about, you're definitely right. There are plenty of women who will get with a successful guy just because he's successful. She doesn't really care about anything else. It makes her look better. So, I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's the problem, and that's the validation seeking. And that's why also, like, guys before they get into a relationship, they need to have some amount of experience with women, at least dating women, and have gotten that part of it out of their system. So that they're not trying to seek that validation to prove what a man they are. They have to already know what a man they are, right? And then they're not going to be necessarily doing it because that's the other thing. A lot of guys think that they're out there looking for something hotter because it's what they want, but it's really just because it pumps their ego or makes them feel better about themselves, which is not a good formula because the problem is that that's a never-ending pursuit. You can't ever get the validation that needs to come internally from the external. It can never happen, no matter how many buffets you eat at, and women still be hungry tomorrow, you know what I mean?

Nicole: Yeah, that's true. And men and women both do that. And I would say, you know, these guys that you've been talking to who are like saying how they want these hotter women or they're not happy with the women they're with, it is intimacy that they're lacking or something else in the relationship. Like, I know in both of these situations because we've talked about them, that they've had issues with the relationship in some way.

John: Yeah, and I think maybe too that maybe they feel like it's tainted, it's not perfect anymore, it's not happy, and so they're almost like discarding it in a way. And that's also why they're like searching for a hotter woman because they're kind of like, I don't want to say done with the relationship, but they're not focused on fixing it and making it a deeper, meaningful connection. They've kind of gotten to the point where now they're looking for what's up next. Would you say that that's true?

Nicole: Yeah, I think so because, and that goes back to the disposable idea that people don't want to work on the stuff. It's easier to just dispose of people now, especially because you have so many options at your fingertips from the dating apps. And again, a lot of guys do that. I've talked to them. They don't realize a lot of times what they're missing is actually the respect part, which is important to a man. That makes him feel loved because then he starts to, and the problem is a lot of us don't address it because they're embarrassed to address it or it's an uncomfortable subject, you know. And so you have to address those things in order to have the depth of intimacy. And I could flip it and say, on the woman's side, you know, that she doesn't feel like she's getting the unconditional acceptance or love that she should be getting. And because of that, she might be well, maybe I can find this romance somewhere else or, you know, getting the romance, which we'll do a whole episode on, and respect too because that's again like a long discussion. But I think that can also be the thing, but also she can work on that, and you know, just to give a quick for the episode we'll do, is both parties can do what the opposite needs in order to build the depth of intimacy. Like, it's you know, so you as a man can start to love the woman that you're with unconditionally and see how that changes how she shows up and how your attraction to her may change as well. And a woman can show a man unconditional respect and then start to see how now maybe you're showing up as the man more romantic and doing the things she wants, exactly. So, but yeah, people just think it's broken when it's not.

John: Well, I think that's, I don't know if you've got anything else on the subject, but people unsatisfied, I mean, I feel like we kind of hit the nail on the head because it's usually people who are in a good relationship but something's lacking. And I do think what's lacking is the intimacy and the connection with their partner because I feel like when people are unsatisfied, it's like the relationship's not necessarily bad, like it could work, but there's something keeping it from working, and they just don't know that it's a deeper connection. And both of the people are at a gridlock a lot of the time too. And like you said, if you guys give each other what each other needs unconditionally, normally that can get you out of a lot of situations and keep yourself out of temptation's way, right? And you know, and I talked about it for men, like cover your eyes, like don't look at the stuff, CT your eyes, but it's also for women too because women can be influenced by TikTok and Instagram and like romance novels or, I don't know, they could see a guy and be like, "Oh, my life with him would look like this," and fantasize. Like, women are very fantasizers, whereas men are more physical. They'll be like, hot girl, and just go, whereas women would be like, oh well, if you know, my boyfriend was a pilot or something, we could travel the world, you know. And then they spiral, and then they're like, oh well, maybe now I need to look for a pilot, and like they didn't even know, don't even know anything, you know, or they'll be on social media.

John: Which you know, when you're in a relationship, you should be making your personal profiles private to not continue to be available. But a woman might be in a relationship and then getting a lot of DMs on Instagram, a lot of guys sliding into her DM, or she posts a thirst trappy picture while she's in a relationship, and there's a whole bunch of likes from all these guys. And then she's like, "Wow, am I really doing the best that I can because all these guys are liking my photo and all these guys are sliding into my DMs?" So, look, there's a football player that slid into my DMs, a pro athlete or whatever. You see, that's also a recipe...

Nicole: For disaster because you might be perfectly happy in your relationship, but then you're like, "Oh, but look at all this attention that I'm getting." You know, it's more so, I would say, men are the visual, but women, the attention part of it. So, yeah, I guess too, from what you just said, a better thing would be to close yourself off. Not fully, like go hang out with your friends and live your life, but you guys both need to close off from the outside world. Like, men need to not look everywhere, and women need to not seek validation, not fantasize about some other man or whatever, and focus on you guys. I'm not saying don't do things with your life, but focus on your relationship and close off, like put the blinders on and just focus on you guys. Right? 'Cause then you'll know if it doesn't work out, you guys did try everything that you could in those instances, rather than you guys get in a relationship and it feels rocky, but you're both doing...

John: Things that are making it more rocky and more unstable. And that's one of the reasons why we did the episode on the girls' night out, guys' night out, and it's like, don't go to bars, don't go to nightclubs. Right? Yeah, it's just common sense sort of things. Yeah, you have to change your environment, and it's like, even if you're just going through, you don't have to shut yourself off completely, but don't put yourself into the middle. You know, if you went out every day and there were drugs and hookers everywhere, it was like, you would probably start to move in that direction. You know, I'm not saying like it's just stupid to do that. You should make your environment suit what your direction is and not be pulled in different directions and distracted by the world in yoga pants. You know, it's not the way. So, all right, so we're going to our segment of...

Nicole: Yeah, that's you.

John: It's me. I don't even... I got juy. I was like, I'm glad it's not me because there's really nothing. I got nothing. I don't think we even have any parenting things that...

Nicole: No, I mean, it's been smooth sailing. Like, everybody's just doing their living their best life, and everything's good in all the departments. But part of the reason why it's been so good is because we had those weeks where it was every week we were learning something, but we learned a lot of stuff from it. You know what I mean? And we're reading a book on love and respect together at night too, and that's good too. But yeah, I think we just learned a lot about it. And also, doing these podcasts helps too because it's like, especially we did the podcast on the Oneness, and then, you know, it got me thinking a lot and changed some of the ways that I was internally thinking about things. So, yeah, nothing to report except that if you work on stuff, it works. We have to get a new segment if we keep going this talk about... Oh, we could just talk about the video we're playing.

John: Mario Kart 8 now. We got some controllers, you know, that'll be... That's our...

Nicole: I don't even know how to play Mario Kart 8. I only know how to play classic Mario, so John and our daughter are like kicking my butt. I'm like, "What do you mean you can jump off of this thing and do this crazy move?" I'm like, "I only know how to go and turn and use the bananas and stuff." Like, I know, but how did we get our Nintendo Switch?

John: Dave & Busters. 'Cause we literally, we have multiple games that we can beat the high scores and get thousands of tickets on.

Nicole: Yeah, and so we got, how many? It was like 120,000 tickets for a Nintendo Switch OLED.

John: So, yeah, we got it. So, I made John download Nintendo 64 games to play Pokemon Stadium, and it was not as exciting as I thought it was going to be, and it was like $64. I feel so bad, but it's all right, you know. You got to go back to your childhood every once in a while.

Nicole: All right, well, that's a wrap then. See you next time.