Sabrina [00:00:00]: Welcome. Your woman's crazy. I remember we were passing, like, the Costco on the way to our house. I was like, I'm just feeling really sad right now. And he said, I understand why you're feeling sad.

John [00:00:11]: You're, like, healed.

Nicole [00:00:12]: It was. I was like, oh, are we feeling sad? Okay.

Sabrina [00:00:16]: He literally disappeared.

Nicole [00:00:17]: Just went away. Instead of just being like, you're sad, like, about what? Like, why are you sad? There's nothing to be sad about. And being dismissive, which is what I used to do because it didn't make sense to me.

Sabrina [00:00:25]: When your hormones are, like, going up and down and up and down, I literally have said, baby, I've got the wheel again. But if you fight the little gremlin in all women.

Unknown_D [00:00:34]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:00:34]: Then it's only going to.

John [00:00:36]: Then it multiplies beyond the perfect we.

Unknown_D [00:00:39]: Discover through our flaws we complete each other. Better than perfect we stay through every.

John [00:00:49]: Fault we find our way.

Unknown_D [00:00:55]: All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. And we're back again with our. Our wonderful guests and friends, John and Sabrina Broderick. And, yeah, they join us for another episode and round two. We're having a good old time here, and then we're going to go to dinner afterwards and it's going to be.

John [00:01:16]: Fun and Happy Valentine's Day. Well, today it is for us.

Sabrina [00:01:19]: Yeah, for us.

Unknown_D [00:01:21]: It's like, was long ago for you, but, you know, but every day should be Valentine's Day.

John [00:01:24]: We have heart. That's right.

Sabrina [00:01:25]: On our nails.

John [00:01:26]: I know. Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:01:27]: Yeah. And I wore a cupid shirt, so.

John [00:01:30]: You know, here we are celebrating.

Unknown_D [00:01:33]: Yeah. So I mean, maybe we should just jump into the topic. Cause we kind of already small talked it.

John [00:01:38]: I mean, why not?

Nicole [00:01:39]: Sounds like a fun one. I'll dig up some trauma.

Unknown_D [00:01:44]: So the topic for today is, I guess we'll say healing through relationships. There. There's a, like, how relationships can heal.

John [00:01:54]: Or unpacking your baggage in your relationship.

Unknown_D [00:01:56]: Unpacking your baggage.

Nicole [00:01:57]: Yeah.

John [00:01:57]: Unpacking it.

Unknown_D [00:01:58]: Yeah. Putting.

Sabrina [00:02:00]: Unpacking it and organizing it and like. Yeah. Integrating it into your life and like, letting it go.

Nicole [00:02:05]: I think that though, healing in a relationship, because that's what it is at the end of the day is like, we all come into our relationships with all of our baggage and all of our trauma and all of our upbringings that created who we are. And now we, you know, find our partner who helps us become a better person by healing a lot of that.

John [00:02:23]: Yeah. So, I mean, I think, too, when before you're in a relationship, you feel like, well, you guys definitely seem like people that work on themselves regardless of being in a relationship. And me personally, before I met John, I was like, wow, I've worked on so much stuff. I feel so good, like, I'm in a really good place. And then we got together, and then here's all these things that were there that, like, I honestly don't think I could have gotten to them on my own without John. And I don't know if you guys feel the same or if it's different.

Nicole [00:03:01]: I mean, without her, I don't think I would. I wouldn't be who I am today. And I. And I think, yeah, I mean, we've had our shit that has opened, you know, like fights or different things that we've gotten into that have made me dig deep into where that's coming from, from my end.

Sabrina [00:03:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:18]: And I've had to really unpack a lot of my, you know, stuff that I didn't even know was there. You know, like, thought I was just humming through life and things are good. But I think, like, you know, you bury stuff so that you, you know, can continue to just kind of move forward.

Unknown_D [00:03:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:34]: And it's made me, you know, unbury some of that stuff, face it, address it, so that I can show up for her in the right way.

John [00:03:41]: Yeah. Or maybe nobody's poking it. You know, like, when you're on your own, nobody's poking something. Certain things. But then when you're in a relationship, they're like, why do you do that? Or like, you know, where is this coming from?

Sabrina [00:03:50]: Yeah. John was just like, you know, he's such a positive, like, in just in general, like, my John. It's so funny.

Nicole [00:03:57]: He's a positive guy, too. Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:03:59]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:04:00]: Because we're gonna look back at this podcast and be like, which John are you talking about?

John [00:04:03]: Which one?

Sabrina [00:04:05]: But, you know, Maijon is like, he's. To anyone who knows him knows that he's like, this gregarious, like, life of the party, like, amazing human being. But I think that you've lived a lot of your life without actually facing your emotions or your turmoils within yourself and with your family and with your parents and even yourself, your friendships. And me personally, I've dealt with a lot of things, and I've talked about a lot of things, but I don't think I've ever fully tried to let them go or heal them or I keep perpetuating the same fears where You've been able to uncover in different ways, and I've been able to uncrack you in different ways. It's just been like, I. And, like, true. I mean, I even said it in my vows. Like, you've healed me in ways that I never thought were even, like. That I thought, like, were past repair.

John [00:04:59]: I literally was about to bring up that part of your vows because I think that's when I lost it at your wedding. Because it's just. It's so true, though, because it really resonated with me, too. Cause John's healed so many things in me, and I just sobbed when you put that in your vowels. And knowing what you've been through, too, and what that means to you, it's like, that was where I lost it. Obviously, I'm losing it now.

Sabrina [00:05:24]: Now I'm gonna lose it.

John [00:05:25]: But no, like, that was. It's such a profound thing that, like, you know, maybe other people were just like, aw. You know. But having experienced it myself and, like, knowing what you've been through and how John treats you and all that stuff, it was. It was just really beautiful.

Sabrina [00:05:41]: It was a beautiful moment when John and I first got together. And it was when we were like. I can remember the night we were living in Little Italy. We had the galaxy light on. We had music playing. And I was like, wow, I never have to fight again. And not fight in the sense. Cause obviously in relationships you're gonna fight, but fight in this ugly, like, toxicity that I, like, grew up in. And you looked at me and you're like, nope, baby girl. Like, you're safe. And it was just like, oh, fuck. You know, like, it was. It was like. I felt like a massive weight was lifted off my shoulders and. But that was just the very beginning, right? And then we really get into the nitty gritty of, like, the years of, like, starting to, like, meld our life. Mend our life.

Nicole [00:06:31]: And then, like, unpack all.

Sabrina [00:06:32]: And then unpacking it. Yeah, it was like, oh, fuck, I'm safe. But wait a minute. You still got shit to go through. Like, you still got shit to, like, unpack and, like, heal and. But, yeah, like.

Nicole [00:06:43]: But we're doing it in a. In a safe space now. We're like, you know. And I think from a, you know, the male perspective, I think there's, like, a reluctance to admit your weaknesses, right? And I think you want to obviously show up strong for your partner. But with that said, like, we have our. That's like, you know, the deep parts of our heart, our Relationship with our. Maybe our parents, you know, other friends. Just, like, different things we've been through. Losing, you know, losing family member, whatever it is, like these things that have, you know, created parts of you that, you know, you put armor on.

Unknown_D [00:07:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:30]: But it. It's been nice to be able to, like, know that I can, like, live in that stuff and experience some of it and, like, let my body and soul, like, process it and know that, like, I'm in a relationship where, like, I can allow her to, like, see that vulnerability and know she's not gonna leave.

John [00:07:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:51]: Like, it's not like, oh, if I'm vulnerable, then, like, there. There she goes and I'm alone again. Right. And so I think that. That just knowing that they're not going anywhere, you know, obviously, like, you can't just show up like a. Every day because, like, and then they should leave. But I mean, I think you need to be able to, like, address your more vulnerable parts. And having a partner that can help you do that and can, like, help you open your heart and see these things, I think it's just the most powerful thing.

John [00:08:21]: No, I totally get that, like, going back to the tub thing we were talking about in the last episode. Like, like, you're really not going to leave. I asked John that all the time because I feel like every time he sees this ugly, ugly side of me, you know, or like, of something that's wrong with me or what I've been through, I'm like, is he gonna go? You know, like, he's been here through a lot of stuff. Yeah. But I'm like, is one of these things, though, gonna be. He's like, nope, I can't deal with this. I gotta go. But you're right, he. I know deep down that he's not gonna do that. But it is that part of you that sometimes, like, oh, well, is this, like, buried thing inside of me gonna be the crack that breaks the. Whatever's back? You know, the straw that breaks the cabin's back? That's what it is.

Unknown_D [00:09:04]: Yeah. Yeah, it's funny for me too. Like, just kind of like Nicole was saying. I mean, I thought I was the epitome of personal development. I mean, I taught it to guys. I coached guys. I was, you know, stoic. Philosophy here didn't react.

Sabrina [00:09:18]: You.

Unknown_D [00:09:18]: You know, just. And I was just waiting for. Just to be enlightened, just for enlightenment, just to, you know, poof into, you.

Nicole [00:09:25]: Know.

Unknown_D [00:09:27]: Where'S my nirvana? Like, am I. You know, and. And then, you know, and then when we got into the relationship, I. I found all the stuff that I still needed to work on, which was great. I mean, it's a great thing. And. And, you know, and I. Nicole has made me into a better man and continues to make me into a better man as we. And I think that's the real value of a relationship, is that it helps you to polish those rough parts that you don't even know. It's like, to dig deeper. I can't reach it myself. I can't reach in there where it's at. But she can reach it.

Sabrina [00:10:02]: She has cute little teeny, tiny fingers. She can dig down deep in there.

Unknown_D [00:10:07]: Because I thought even things, like, simple things where I thought, okay, I'm a very amiable person. Like, as far as understanding people and communicating and not getting into conflict, I'm pretty high up there, you know, And. And then I learned that I was fairly defensive and I had to deal with that. And it's like, okay, wow. Like, I. Like, I would never have seen that.

John [00:10:30]: But I knew where that came from too, and was trying to talk to him about it, but he hadn't accepted it about himself yet. You know what I mean? And I tried to say it in a very, like, kind way, but you also have to accept the thing. Because there's plenty of things, too, that John's like, oh, no, you're doing this. And it probably comes from this. And I'm like, I didn't accept it. So I'm like, no, it's. But then when you finally accept it, you're like, okay, now we can work on this.

Sabrina [00:10:55]: Yeah.

John [00:10:56]: And you can help me heal this thing that's, you know, been here. Because you have to accept it. Otherwise you'll just be like, no, like. Like you have to really accept it. I don't know how to describe it.

Sabrina [00:11:07]: Well, it's like to fix a problem, identifying, or what's the saying? Like, the first thing you have to do is identify.

John [00:11:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:16]: Admit that there is a problem.

Sabrina [00:11:17]: Yeah. Admit that there's a problem, because I.

John [00:11:20]: Think you can identify it.

Unknown_D [00:11:22]: Yeah. The alcohol, the aa. Like that.

Sabrina [00:11:25]: You get what I'm saying?

Unknown_D [00:11:26]: Exactly.

Sabrina [00:11:27]: Same. Same, but different.

John [00:11:29]: But I think you can know that it's going on without accepting it.

Sabrina [00:11:33]: So maybe reluctant to accept it, you know. Right.

Nicole [00:11:37]: John.

Sabrina [00:11:38]: For a long. And I mean, this is just, like, recent in our lives where he's, like, really fully opening up his heart to, like, fuck. Like, I have a lot of trauma. And it's funny that you guys have tub moments, because we have tub moments. We debrief. In tubs.

John [00:11:52]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:11:53]: And it was like this moment where like he looked at me, had no idea, right? Like this was just a few weeks ago. And he was like, I've felt alone my whole life. And like crying and I'm like, you're not alone, babe. Like, I'm right here. I'm crying thinking about it because like, you're never alone and I'm always going to be here for you. And like. But that trauma, right? And then like, as a man to like admit you have trauma and like, and it's okay, like, it's okay to like you said. Yeah, obviously don't be a bitch about it, you know, but like at the same time, but like, yeah, but you.

Nicole [00:12:29]: Gotta work through it.

Sabrina [00:12:30]: Work through it.

Nicole [00:12:31]: And that's gonna show for someone as a better person is to like, exactly realize, yeah, maybe I. This is living in me. Why did I feel this way? Yeah, you know, you don't want to live in it. You don't want to live in your trauma because then you're just a victim of it, you know, But I think like being able to like, recognize where those feelings are coming from so that you can go into new situations and, and show up as a better process.

Sabrina [00:12:55]: But you can't just like brush it under the right. Brush it under the carpet, you know, like then it's just gonna be a big old carpet full of.

John [00:13:02]: Yeah, it's.

Sabrina [00:13:03]: It's messy and dirty and d. And no one wants that.

John [00:13:05]: Right.

Sabrina [00:13:06]: You know, And I mean, and same thing with women too. And it's also like, well, like with you, like.

Nicole [00:13:12]: So you had a bunch of trauma.

Sabrina [00:13:16]: Yeah, I had a gnarly childhood.

Nicole [00:13:17]: You had a gnarly childhood?

Sabrina [00:13:18]: Yeah, so I was.

Nicole [00:13:18]: She grew up in a really abusive home.

Sabrina [00:13:20]: Super abusive home. My. My father beat me, you know, my whole life. Like in like not just like spankings, but like bruises.

Nicole [00:13:27]: And first black guy was when she was like five.

Sabrina [00:13:29]: Oh wow. So. So like.

Nicole [00:13:32]: But she would tell me about this stuff. She's like, oh yeah, I like abusive home. But haha, like she would like joke about it just to like just kind of brush it under the rug. Right. Just to not have it be part of her identity. Totally understand. But then like, I think because of the way that she would talk about it, I didn't really understand it. Like it was kind of like I.

Sabrina [00:13:51]: Told I would make light of it.

Nicole [00:13:52]: You're giving me like the subject lines of the emails, but I've never read the body of an email.

Unknown_D [00:13:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:57]: And so like, yeah, Like, I know that you had a traumatic background, but, like, let's handle shit. Like, man, like, come on, you know, why are you being weak? You know, like, in our relationship, I'd be like, come on. Like, let's do things. She's like, I need time to, like, process, and I've got, like, anxiety. Like, this stuff I'm working through, and I'm like, I didn't really fully understand it because she only gave me, you know, the spark notes.

Sabrina [00:14:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:17]: And then, you know, as of more recently, we, like, dove into, like, what was this? And, like, you know, let her, like, open up some of the stories about the abuse and, like, really walking me through.

Unknown_D [00:14:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:14:29]: Like, I was able to, like, put myself in her shoes or, like, as, like, an observer of these moments. And then all of a sudden, I just understood her so much more, and I understood her reactivity towards things so much more because, like, she would have these little moments where she would react to something where I'd, like, slightly raise my voice or I'd, like, show some emotion, and then she would, like, shut down. And I was like, yeah, what the is like, what is that? That's not an okay. You can't react like that when I'm just, like, showing a little bit of emotion. But I didn't understand where it came from.

Unknown_D [00:14:57]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:58]: And so then once we started, like, really unpack where it came from. Now I'm like, okay, like, this is why, you know.

Unknown_D [00:15:04]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:05]: This. It's just like, it's. She's just wounded, you know, and she has, like, these wounds now. And now I'm like, okay, well, like, if I approach her in this way, it could. It's going to trigger something now. Now, is it something that she can let trigger her forever? No, because, like, can. Am I allowed to have, like, loud emotions sometimes? Yes, for sure. Like, so we're working through, you know, her not being as easily triggered, but me also knowing that, like, when I do trigger something and it creates that reaction. Like, where did that come from? And not just, like, shame her for it. Now I know the truth behind it.

Sabrina [00:15:40]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, you know, in the beginning of our relationship, he'd be like, why are you getting like this? Like, I didn't. I didn't even do anything. And he naturally has a loud voice. Right. Like, John's never yelled at me, but he'll get, you know, more stern.

Unknown_D [00:15:55]: Sure. Yeah.

Sabrina [00:15:56]: And immediately I'm just like, I'm the little kid that was being beat, you know, And I'm like, I Don't want to talk. I have anxiety. I'm going to go away. And I'm just like, don't talk to me. Like, you know. And he's like, why are you acting like you can't. This isn't a way, you know, like this isn't conducive to life. Like we can't continue on like this. But he didn't. And in my head I'm like, don't, you know?

Nicole [00:16:18]: And she's like, I told you. I was like, lose. But like, to me, I didn't got the clip together. But then really once she really spelled it out.

Unknown_D [00:16:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:28]: And like opened up her heart around. Like, this is why, you know, this is the types of things that happened and like walked me through them. And we had like a probably like a four hour tub talk. Sitting in the tub, both of us crying, just like working through our. And then I had this whole new perspective on it where I was just like, oh, like this is why you react in these ways. And like, you know, this is how I need to show up when you do react in that way. Like, I need to not just like get annoyed with you for being like that. I need to like lean into it and be there for you.

John [00:16:59]: Right.

Sabrina [00:17:00]: Like show.

Nicole [00:17:00]: Because you spent a lot of time where like you were like getting abused and then had to like be alone in that. And like, that's not what you need. Like you need, you need empathy.

Sabrina [00:17:08]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was the same thing back with you. Like, I, I wouldn't understand like how you could just walk away from things, but you were perpetuating the cycle of just being alone. And it's not that no fault of your mom's, but she was a single mom and she was having to provide for three kids. And a lot of your childhood was you fending for yourself. And with a father who wasn't emotionally available and kind of, you know, emotionally abusive in some ways, like, it made so much more sense where I'm just like, babe, like, I love you. You can trust me. Because you've never had that like, sense of like, I can trust somebody. You know, like you had, you had like hyper independence. You're like, live alone by myself?

John [00:17:59]: Yeah, yeah.

Sabrina [00:18:01]: I'm like, nope. We got together.

John [00:18:02]: John used to follow me into like the next room when I would try to leave and I hated it. But I'm glad he kept doing it because I grew up very much. Like my mom would give everybody the silent treatment for like days. Like there was not any talk about feelings and Emotions and things like that. Because my parents, they didn't have the emotional intelligence back then, like from their own childhood. I can see that now. But I had learned these like avoidant sort of ways to handle things because that's how I handled them back then too. And so I would just want to leave when I would get overwhelmed and I'm like, let me sit and think about it. And even sometimes now I'll be like, you know what, Nevermind. I'll like figure it out myself.

Sabrina [00:18:48]: We're not doing that.

Unknown_D [00:18:49]: We're not, we're figuring out together, which.

John [00:18:51]: Is a genuine thing. There is like a genuine part of me that from that time that's like I can figure this out because I had to figure everything out. And so it's not like a dig at John even when I say it, but he's like, no, let's figure it out. And there is something scary about putting stuff on somebody when you don't know if they can handle all the things, you know. And even though he can, I feel like I related to when you said, you know, like what's gonna happen? Like can someone see all these things about me and still be there?

Nicole [00:19:28]: Right.

John [00:19:28]: Because if you've never had that in a way, like never shown anybody all your deepest, darkest parts of you, how do you, how do you know that they're going to. Right.

Nicole [00:19:39]: I mean you don't.

Sabrina [00:19:40]: Right?

Unknown_D [00:19:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:41]: And I think that's true. Thing is like, you know, but you have to trust. You got to trust. Or like if you open it all up and they don't want to be there for you, then that's right.

John [00:19:51]: Well that's also the answer.

Sabrina [00:19:52]: So I've always been very open about my trauma. Like I'll tell anyone I was beat us. No, I'm just kidding.

Nicole [00:19:59]: Yeah. But not really though. You brush over with it.

Sabrina [00:20:02]: I joke about it.

Nicole [00:20:02]: You joke about it. Which isn't being open about it.

Sabrina [00:20:04]: But I would, I would open up about it. Like it wasn't like something that I.

John [00:20:08]: Would like I not talk about at all.

Sabrina [00:20:10]: Not talk about. Yeah, but like indifference from like with you. You like you wouldn't talk about any. It took years for us to do that.

Nicole [00:20:20]: Well, I didn't even know it was there. Yeah, I was like, I'm just good.

Unknown_D [00:20:23]: You asked for it though, because we were on one of our first hikes and you're like, yeah, I really wanted to do the ayahuasca because I don't even know what my trauma.

Nicole [00:20:30]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:20:31]: And then it's like now you've got it.

Nicole [00:20:33]: You got the answer. Yeah. Which is great, because now we're gonna go do ayahuasca next month, and it's like, at least I know what I'm gonna go work through versus, like, coming in and just getting blindsided by all of it.

John [00:20:44]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:20:44]: But I think what helps motivate us to be able to do it is that we see that the trauma. Cause a lot of times we do have the mindset, oh, I'll just deal with it myself and dealing with it myself. A lot of times. Looks like putting it back under the rug.

Nicole [00:20:59]: Yeah, that's right.

Unknown_D [00:20:59]: Putting it in this drawer. It's good. I just won't say that anymore. I won't act this way anymore. You're just suppressing it, but not really dealing with it. But when we see how. When we are in so much love with our partner and value our partner, how much it hurts them, our unresolved trauma, and then that motivates us to actually dig in there. Because I know that for me, it was like, I'm like, oh, wow. These things, these small things that I'm doing, they're hurting Nicole when I'm doing those things. And so I need to actually really reasonable. Because if it was just me on my own, it doesn't matter. Or even Nicole will say, sometimes I just avoid negative people. And it's like, well, it's not an option now. When you got a daughter and you've got. It's like, so it's. You know, we could handle the things on our own because we could just avoid the things that hurt us.

Sabrina [00:21:52]: Like, oh, that thing burns me.

Unknown_D [00:21:54]: Exactly. So I can just, you know, I'm living my life independently, but, you know, you're coming into contact with another human being every single day. You can't just go.

Nicole [00:22:03]: So that's what we talk about that, like.

Unknown_D [00:22:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:06]: And I think that that was a little aha moment, was when we looked at each other, we're like, look, like you have all this trauma. That's mine now. Like, that's my trauma now.

Unknown_D [00:22:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:17]: Like, we're fighting about stuff that, you know, is triggered because of, like, your relationship with your father. Like, that's not. You go figure that out.

John [00:22:26]: Right?

Nicole [00:22:26]: That's like, we have to figure that out. Like, because that's. It's the rest of our lives is because of this. My shit, too? Like, yeah, yeah. At first I was like, figure that out. I'm gonna figure out my shit. We'll show up for each other.

Sabrina [00:22:40]: I need to, like, figure myself out.

Nicole [00:22:42]: And I was like, yeah, please go figure that out. Because, like, that's a lot.

Sabrina [00:22:45]: Yeah. Me, like, turning myself away. Like. Like, don't look at me. Like, yeah, I'm damaged. I'm all these things, and I'm trying to, like, put on this facade and, like, I'm just trying to, like, heal through these things. And, like, yeah, I'm good, I'm good. But it was almost putting on, like, this fake front of, like, toxic positivity. When we met, I was like, you know, I was 21. I was like, there's no such thing as anxiety. Like, I just. I had, like, an aha moment. I was like, anxiety isn't real. You can tell yourself these things and you can just be positive. But then I suppressed every negative emotion I ever felt, and I would not deal with it, so. But I needed to do that at that point to teach myself, like, okay, it's good to be positive and, like, to hone that skill.

Unknown_D [00:23:27]: Right?

Sabrina [00:23:28]: But then as I got older, you know, now in my later 20s, it's like, you have to be able to feel the emotion. Don't delve into the emotion and be a victim.

John [00:23:37]: Right?

Sabrina [00:23:38]: But you also can't.

Nicole [00:23:39]: You gotta feel it.

Sabrina [00:23:39]: But you also can't just put a fucking smiley face on it and pretend like everything's fine. Because that's what I did for a long time and gotta process it. I didn't process it. I was just like, okay, yep, I'm happy. I'm happy. Like, life is fine. Like, you know, posting, like, positive, you know, captions on my Instagrams and. Yeah, but it was. It wasn't real.

Nicole [00:24:01]: And we had to, like, trust each other to open up about, like, this is honestly what I'm dealing with and how I'm feeling. And, like, now let's deal with it together.

John [00:24:09]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:09]: Which is, like, a crazy thing to take on.

John [00:24:12]: It's like, well, because sometimes you feel like you need the motivation of someone else. Like John said, like, it makes me more motivated than I could ever say to be the best version of myself for you. Even if I'm like, I'm okay like this, you know, Like. But when you tell me, like, these things are affecting you or they're affecting my life and it's affecting you or whatever, I'm like, I don't want that for you.

Unknown_D [00:24:39]: Right?

John [00:24:39]: So even if I get to a point where I'm like, well, I've dealt. I've been living like this, so it's fine, you know, it's not fine. And I Don't want to you to deal with that.

Unknown_D [00:24:49]: Yeah.

John [00:24:49]: And then once you deal with it too, and you help me deal with it, then I'm like, wow, you're free. Like, you can let one of the bags down of your baggage and not pick it up again.

Nicole [00:24:59]: And that's the power of like the partnership. It's like when you're living for other people, you do so much more versus if you're just living for yourself because it's so easy. Just if you're living for yourself, it's like, what do I really need? Not that much, you know, I can just kind of get. But you know, when I'm living for someone else, like, I got to show up so much harder. Which means not only just like throughout day to day life, but also like, I need to like, handle all my internal shit now so that I can continue to be a better person for her.

Sabrina [00:25:26]: Yeah, I'm a hundred times better, like, person with you day in, day in and day out. Like, every day just gets better with you. Like, we have so many deep conversations about growth, about like our mental, physical, spiritual, like, financial growth, everything.

Unknown_D [00:25:48]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:25:51]: Like, I'm a better daughter, I'm a better friend. I'm a better, like, I truly. And it's truly because of you. And like.

Nicole [00:26:02]: Thanks, baby.

Sabrina [00:26:04]: You do. And that's how you know, like, when you are in something that is like, powerful and like, where you shouldn't settle into a relationship. Like, if you're in a relationship that's bringing up traumas, but they're just perpetuating the same fucking dark, ugly circle, get out of that. Like, get out of that immediately. But if you're in a relationship that brings up traumas and then you start seeing the cycle, but then you're like, wait a minute, we're gonna break that. We're gonna break this fucking cycle right now. Like, then you know you're in the right thing because. And it's so empowering. And the beautiful thing, like what you were saying is you show up as a better partner for John is because he's your family. And showing up better for your family, that is my biggest intention. John is my family. He is my number one. And then one day we'll have more, we'll start multiplying and. And I want to be like the best possible mom.

Nicole [00:27:08]: What better motivation is there than that?

Sabrina [00:27:10]: Than my husband, then my children, then like my children's children and to be able to create a household that doesn't have to perpetuate negativity and trauma and like, yes, they're going to have their own trauma, like, their own. Right.

John [00:27:26]: That's what I tell John all the time. I'm like, even if we're. We're perfect or, you know, there's going to be something that Sophia will take with her, but at least we'll know that we gave her way better than a lot of people give their kids.

Nicole [00:27:40]: More than what we had ourselves.

Unknown_D [00:27:41]: Right, Exactly. And it is possible. Let's see. A lot of people that are gonna watch are never gonna believe this, but I will tell you, I will swear on anything, on my life, on Nicole's life, on everything that we do not yell at Sophia. Not even one time. Not one time. No calling names, not even raising her voice and yelling at her. Neither of us does it. And the only way that that's possible is through us working on ourselves, through our relationship. And it's a great thing that you can provide to a child that you can parent in that way where you don't parent with anger. And I don't know very many people that are able to do that, but that's where that deep work of working on yourself and the relationship, it really does.

Nicole [00:28:28]: Yeah, that's what we're hoping to do.

Sabrina [00:28:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:30]: Like, we. We don't want to. Especially, like, she grew up in such a. I grew up in a household yelling. Abusive home. It's like, we can't give that to ourselves.

Sabrina [00:28:38]: It's unhealthy. Like, there is no reason. Unless.

Nicole [00:28:41]: But how do we not give that to ourselves?

Sabrina [00:28:42]: Unless your child make sure we're not in danger. Like a car.

Unknown_D [00:28:47]: Oh, yeah, right.

Sabrina [00:28:48]: Get over here. Like, you know, like, that's, like. That makes sense. Right, right. But, like, if your kid did something. No, Like, I am so. And, like, even to each other, like, there's, like, I refuse to, like, yell at John. You know, like, will I get elevated? Yes.

Nicole [00:29:03]: We've had a little bit of the. We're working.

Sabrina [00:29:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:05]: We're getting better.

John [00:29:06]: Everybody's had a moment. Like, even we've had a moment of, like, obviously, if it's, like, an extreme issue where you get kind of caught away in it. But there's a difference between it's happened once or twice versus it happens once or twice a week.

Sabrina [00:29:22]: Exactly.

John [00:29:22]: In other people's households.

Sabrina [00:29:24]: Exactly. And, like, I've been in relationships, slash. Have been in households, like, up in a household, that yelling was the norm.

Unknown_D [00:29:31]: Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina [00:29:32]: Yelling is not our norm.

Unknown_D [00:29:33]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:29:33]: Our norm is like, hey, Tone.

Nicole [00:29:36]: Yeah. Yeah, Tone.

Sabrina [00:29:38]: That's our. Yeah, hey, tone. You know, I Don't appreciate how you spoke to me. And I'm like, oh, the way you spoke to me was a little inappropriate. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, you're right. That was a little appropriate.

Unknown_D [00:29:50]: Yeah, that's good.

Sabrina [00:29:51]: That's a good tip. And. But it's just respect, right? Like, yeah, I. I don't ever want to disrespect you, because if I disrespect you, I'm disrespecting myself.

Unknown_D [00:30:00]: Yeah.

John [00:30:01]: It goes back to the Wii, you being one. Yeah, that's. It's key when you're in a deeply intimate relationship. And, like, yes, sex is an intimate thing, but to me, what is more intimate than sharing your deepest, darkest parts of you? And someone accepting that. Yeah, like, that is way more crazy. Yeah, like, that's crazy to me.

Sabrina [00:30:22]: So then it kind of makes sense.

John [00:30:24]: It does. Like, it does.

Nicole [00:30:25]: But, I mean, sex is like a. Is like a physical. Physical thing.

Unknown_D [00:30:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:28]: And we're talking about, like, our deepest spiritual, like, selves.

Unknown_D [00:30:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:32]: Someone loving to each other, which is, like, so much more than just, like, us, you know, wiggling ourselves together.

John [00:30:39]: Right. But that's what people think about a lot of times when you say intimacy, they just think that. But it's like, have you told each other your deepest, darkest.

Nicole [00:30:47]: Have you unpacked your truth?

John [00:30:48]: Right. Have you unpacked your baggage?

Sabrina [00:30:50]: Have you told each other, like, the dark and ugly parts of yourself, like, that make you look like a bad.

John [00:30:55]: Person and then your partner still loves you? And they're like, it's okay. We'll work on this.

Sabrina [00:31:00]: You're like, look, I was a piece of shit back then. And it's like, well, me too. And it's like, I love you. Yeah, that's okay. And, like, now we're better people for it, and we're, like, growing past that. And, no, it is, like. And I think the most, like, I mean, our biggest values. And that's, like, something that's so important to us is, like, that we align on our values, but our biggest one is growth. Like, number one value is growth. Because if you're not growing, you're dying. We say this. What? Like, that's all.

Nicole [00:31:31]: I mean.

Unknown_D [00:31:31]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:31:31]: Like, all the time.

Unknown_D [00:31:33]: Yeah.

John [00:31:34]: Well, if you're someone with a growth mindset, I say my biggest relationship advice is, you have to be with someone else with a growth mindset.

Nicole [00:31:41]: Like, so that we were actually just, like, going back through some of our old relationships, because we were.

Sabrina [00:31:46]: It was really.

Nicole [00:31:47]: Let's talk through, like, our, you know, chain of who we dated and stuff.

Sabrina [00:31:51]: Well, we were cleaning out our garage and we found. We found, like, old pictures of, like, his. Like, his first girlfriend in high school. Like, their prom photos.

Nicole [00:31:57]: She's like, walk me through, like, what were your relationships?

Sabrina [00:32:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:32:00]: So, like, and I. I had to, like, remember this stuff, which for me, I. I don't think about it often. So I'd, like. I was, like, pulling up LinkedIn. What job did I have? When. When did I. Who was I dating at that time? Like, trying to, like, figure out and.

Sabrina [00:32:13]: One in specific.

Nicole [00:32:14]: One of them. Yeah. I had a ex that I had lived with for a bit. We broke up. And when we broke up, like, kind of, we talk about the straw that broke the camel's back. We were arguing, and she goes, why can't you just be content? Why can't you just be content with the life we have? And that'll always live with me? Like, you're, like, content with the life we have? No, I want, like, I'm always gonna want more. I want us to keep striving for more. I want us to keep being better people. I want us to keep helping more people. I want us to other people be better people. And that was it. She's like, oh, totally understand why that didn't work, because she just knows, like, how we are together.

Sabrina [00:32:56]: She's like, well, like. And John's not one to just, like, hunker down and, like, just live the same life over and over. I mean, even recently, you know, we, like, bought our house, like, what, a year and a half ago?

Nicole [00:33:06]: Yeah, a year ago.

Sabrina [00:33:08]: Yeah. And now we're just, like, gonna up and, like, uproot ourselves and go travel and.

John [00:33:15]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:33:15]: Cause it's like, you know what? Like, we were talking about it, and John looks at me and he says, like, look around us, like, look at our neighbors, right? Like, we have great, beautiful neighbors. Like, great families. But, like, this is. This is what they're doing. And, like, we can do this for the next, like, you know, 20, 30 years, or we can, like.

Nicole [00:33:31]: Or we can go chase more travel.

Sabrina [00:33:33]: And adventure, and I'm just chasing more. And then I'm like, yup, I know.

Nicole [00:33:38]: Which is great, because she's along for the ride. If you ever hit me with. Yeah, it just doesn't work. I think you're right. Like, if. If you're just a content one, find yourself a content one.

John [00:33:48]: Right?

Nicole [00:33:48]: Because that. That works too. But, yeah, for us. That's funny you said that.

Unknown_D [00:33:53]: And that's the biggest thing is because if you know that your partner is growing. If you're both growing, then whatever issues you have, you know that you're going to get past. Because someone who's continually growing, like, you don't have any hope for someone who's not growing. It's just. That's just how they are. And they're always gonna be that way. Which, again, you should accept a person as how they are, but you should have. They should have that idea that they're gonna grow.

Sabrina [00:34:16]: But if you. If you truly want a fulfilled life.

John [00:34:19]: Life.

Unknown_D [00:34:19]: Yeah, like, you chase the growth, baby.

Sabrina [00:34:22]: Yeah. For some growth. Yeah. Like.

Nicole [00:34:26]: But, like, you guys are.

John [00:34:27]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I always tell. Because we talked to Sophia about this kind of stuff too, obviously. And I'm like, it's hard work. And then she's like, ah, I don't want to do hard work. I'm like, I get it. But it's the most fulfilling work you'll do. Because the second you get through the hard work and you feel the peace of, like, really working through something that you've been working on so hard, you want to just keep growing.

Sabrina [00:34:50]: Yeah. Like, it's type two fun.

John [00:34:52]: Yeah. Well, it's like, you know, when you experience that. That piece of figuring something out, of healing something.

Unknown_D [00:35:00]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:35:00]: You're.

John [00:35:01]: You don't want to stop. And, like, you know that the sky's the limit. Like, you keep going and it can keep getting better because you've experienced it. Keep getting better and better.

Unknown_D [00:35:10]: Yeah.

John [00:35:11]: And so, you know, I think some people might get discouraged by hearing, you know, like, work on yourself. Like, a lot of people like, I don't want to work, or they've been through a lot of stuff, and they're like, like, I had to survive that or get through that. But it's like, you don't know what your life could be if you just keep pushing and you keep growing and. Yeah, it can exceed even your wildest dreams.

Sabrina [00:35:34]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:35]: It's like, you don't know what you don't know.

John [00:35:36]: Right. So you gotta go for it.

Nicole [00:35:38]: You think you're living your wildest dreams. You don't even. You get push a little further and your dreams expand.

John [00:35:44]: Yeah. No, you're so right.

Sabrina [00:35:46]: And, like, you are literally like, us as human beings in, like, this life are capable of anything you set your mind to, whether it be, like, technology, finances, or, like, science might be the three things that are standing in your way, but all of those are, like, things that you can solve. You know, you can make more money to get what you want. It's just yes. Like, literally anything you want is possible and just go out and get it. And that's one of the most beautiful things that we've found within our relationship, is healing ourselves through this, but then finding the power of abundance within each other. And now we get to propel not only ourselves, but we wanna be able to propel other people forward as well. As do you. I mean, that's why you do this podcast is like, you found joy. So much joy and love within your relationship. It's like, why not bring other people on this journ? Why am I going to gatekeep this beautiful, like, on this, like, knowledge like this, like.

Nicole [00:36:49]: Like, you guys figured out what works for you guys. Now you're sharing it with the world.

John [00:36:52]: And, like, when we went through the messiness of it.

Sabrina [00:36:54]: Right.

John [00:36:55]: Like, all that we talk about on here is learned experience. And, you know, we definitely read some books that, you know, we recommend and that helps. But we went through the trenches, John and I, and like you said, you know, when you go through that and you get as intimate and deep as we've gotten and you guys have gotten, you know that you can get through anything that comes your way and that a lot of people never feel that, like, they never feel like they have somebody that they can get through anything with.

Sabrina [00:37:26]: Yeah.

John [00:37:26]: And so, well, you should find out.

Nicole [00:37:28]: Because if you're with her partner and you don't know if you can get through anything with them, start opening it up.

John [00:37:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:34]: Going back the layers and see. See if this is the person you can get through anything with.

John [00:37:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:40]: It's so freeing once you can start to really, like, open up your. And be authentic.

John [00:37:46]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:37:47]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:37:47]: Like, I've had people tell me, you know, oh, that would be nice. Like, that must be nice. It must be nice. And it's just like, you can have that. You can have that. Like, you. You just gotta, like, you gotta try. Send. Like, just send it.

John [00:38:02]: Just send it.

Sabrina [00:38:04]: Just do it. Yeah. Nike.

John [00:38:06]: You want to unload your trauma, right? But no, that's true.

Unknown_D [00:38:10]: There was so many things, too, just, like, from my previous marriage, too, that I had just accepted as norms in the relationship of just of the yelling and that kind of thing. And even I remember the first time that Nicole made me see something different was when my daughter Sophia came over and we had these grapes in the freezer that we had. Put Kool Aid on or whatever.

John [00:38:34]: Yeah. It's like Jello. You take frozen grapes and you put the Jello packets on them. It makes, like, sour grapes.

Unknown_D [00:38:40]: And then Sophia grabs it out of the freezer, and she's got the bag, and she tries to open the bag, and just all over the floor, like, all these grapes everywhere. And I look at Nicole, and I'm expecting. My reference experience is that she's gonna start yelling now, right? Cause Sofia just dropped all these grapes all over this floor, and Nicole's just helping her pick him up. And I was like, wait a minute. There's something. What's going on here? Why isn't she yelling? You know, that was just what I was used to. I just. That was my experience. And it's just crazy now. So many days I wake up and I think it's so. There's just, like, peace. I'm just happy to see her. She's happy to see me. I don't feel like she's resenting me. I don't feel like she's snipping at me about things. And I don't. Like. It's just. I couldn't have imagined that it was possible to live a life like that, but, you know. But yeah, but there it is.

Sabrina [00:39:38]: So no peace is possible. And so when I met John when I was 21 years old, and, you know, we were, like, hanging out, hooking up, and we're in his hot tub, and I was like, I don't ever want to have kids. I don't ever want to get married. Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:55]: She was totally against the idea of having a family, which is why for a long time, I didn't think there was, like, a future with Sabrina because she was so gung ho about ever starting a family. And that was because she didn't want to bring the child into.

Sabrina [00:40:08]: The whole piece was based on, like, she looked as a kid.

John [00:40:12]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:40:13]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:40:13]: I was terrified. I was terrified of, like, that because I knew how detrimental that was to me. I never wanted to wish that on any human being ever again. And then, you know, as the years went by, I was like, wait a minute. I literally have the power to control, like, what I want in my life. Like, I don't have to yell at my children. I don't have to judge my children. I don't have to judge my partner. I don't have to yell at my partner. Like, that doesn't have to be my reality anymore. And then I made that decision, and that's what it is, and, like, that's what I will continue.

Nicole [00:40:50]: And then once she realized that she can have peace and her future kids can have peace, and she's like.

Sabrina [00:40:57]: I was like, hello, John.

Nicole [00:40:57]: Let's make some babies. Women don't want to do that.

John [00:41:00]: Like, I'm back.

Unknown_D [00:41:01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been. And Nicole, I think, you know, you've talked about it before, but the, like, you had been cheated on. And so that was a lot of trauma that you were carrying and, you know, and it showed up in our relationship. Right. And we were able to work through that. But it's just like, I mean, that's just a good example of one of the things that, like, was something that was not processed, that was not fully.

John [00:41:27]: Yeah. I mean, even what the other day I was like, john, how do you, like, not worry about worrying? He was like, what?

Nicole [00:41:34]: How do you not worry about.

John [00:41:35]: I'm afraid if I stop worrying, the bad thing will happen. Because I've worried my entire life about things, and so the second I stop, it'll happen. Right. And he's like. And I'm like, logically, I'm like, no, that's not how it works. Logically, I know the answer, but I'm like, I'm just.

Nicole [00:41:52]: I don't even know how this, how those words are coming out.

John [00:41:57]: John's like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. Thankfully, John's like, okay. Like, he talks to me about that.

Unknown_D [00:42:03]: Actually, I forgot to tell you about that. I forgot to compliment you on that because I don't know if you realize how good that made me feel that you had solicited my advice on something and wanted to hear my.

John [00:42:15]: I did know that you would feel good about that, but I also wanted your help too.

Unknown_D [00:42:20]: I was like, yeah, she wants my opinion. She listened to what I had to say. I was like, but, yeah, no, that's meaningful. But yeah, I mean, those things that you carry and have to work through that, that's.

John [00:42:37]: But it's nice to like be able to ask him that question. And you know, like, even though I know the answer and he actually did give me an answer that I didn't like fully dive into and was helpful, which we were talking about earlier. But, you know, I never would have been like, hey, I'm worried about this, worrying about this, you know, and he gave me the capacity to like, talk it all the way through in like a very in depth way that also made me feel like I could figure out the answer. Because, like, it's. You can have the knowledge, you can have the answer.

Unknown_D [00:43:13]: Yeah.

John [00:43:13]: But until it like clicks in your mind, it's. You're not really gonna do anything about it.

Sabrina [00:43:22]: But also John is giving you the opportunity to like, bring your, like, your scared, like, ugly like crazy, maybe. Like, all these adjectives that we tie to women. Yeah. Like, you know.

John [00:43:37]: No, but really.

Sabrina [00:43:37]: And then he was like, all right, let's, like, unpack this. Right? And I think, like, John, you know, has, like, in the last few months, has, like, really opened up to this part. He was like. And specifically around my period. Like, and at first, you know, like, you know, the few. The days before my period, he would be like, why are you being crazy? And like, oh, not the C word.

John [00:44:00]: You did not use the C word.

Nicole [00:44:02]: You used to use it a lot.

Sabrina [00:44:03]: He used it a lot. Yeah. And then.

Nicole [00:44:06]: Don't move.

John [00:44:08]: Don't use the C word.

Nicole [00:44:10]: And then, you know what I realized?

Sabrina [00:44:12]: I'll let you tell it.

Nicole [00:44:13]: Well. Yeah, I just realized, like, if you're abrasive with it, it doesn't help. And so, yeah, there was, like, a day, I think I. She was. Yeah. And I was just like, baby, I recognize that we're in our luteal phase right now.

Sabrina [00:44:33]: And, like, fully just like.

Nicole [00:44:34]: And I was just like, yeah, I understand, but maybe your emotions and your mind isn't. Things probably aren't really making sense. And I totally get it. Like, this is just the phase of, you know, the. The cycle that we're in together right now.

Unknown_D [00:44:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:46]: And she's just like, oh, like, thank you so much. Like, we're in it together. Like, yeah.

Sabrina [00:44:52]: He did that twice in one day. It was the first time he did it.

Nicole [00:44:55]: And I fully disarmed her. Like.

Sabrina [00:44:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:44:58]: If you push back and you're like, you're being crazy, she's like, right.

John [00:45:01]: If you call a woman crazy, she's like, I'll show you crazy. You already called me crazy, so I'll show you.

Nicole [00:45:07]: She knows that she's dealing with this.

Sabrina [00:45:10]: Feel bad about it.

Unknown_D [00:45:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:12]: Instead, I was just like, we're dealing with this, but, like, we're in it together.

John [00:45:15]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:45:16]: But, like, as a man, like, I think, like, one of the biggest advice, like, biggest pieces of advice I can give as, like, a woman within a relationship is like, welcome. Your woman's crazy.

Unknown_D [00:45:26]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:45:27]: Like, wholeheartedly welcome her in and give her a hug.

Nicole [00:45:30]: Just make her. Should know she's safe to be that way. And then it's happening.

Sabrina [00:45:34]: It's happening.

Nicole [00:45:35]: It's happening.

John [00:45:35]: Either way, John has definitely done that.

Nicole [00:45:37]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:45:38]: And then he literally disappeared. He was like. You know, we were driving. I remember we were passing, like, the Costco on the way to our house, and I was like, I'm just feeling really sad right now. And he said, I Understand why you're feeling sad.

John [00:45:52]: You're, like, healed.

Nicole [00:45:55]: I was like, oh, are we feeling sad? Okay. I was like, cool, we can feel sad.

Sabrina [00:45:59]: Yeah, that makes sense.

Nicole [00:46:01]: That makes sense. We can feel sad. And I was like, but, you know, let's pull out of it. But, you know, instead of just being like, you're sad, like, about what? Like, why are you sad? Like, there's nothing to be sad about. And being dismissive, which is what I used to do, because it didn't make sense to me. And it's. The thing is, it's never going to fully make sense to me because I'm a man, she's a woman, and she has emotions that pour through her in a totally different way than I do, especially with hormones.

John [00:46:24]: Right. And we worry about worrying. That's what we do.

Sabrina [00:46:26]: No, worry about worrying 100. And, like.

Nicole [00:46:31]: But then once I related with it and just was, like, cool with it and just, like, accepted it, it literally disappeared. Just went away.

John [00:46:36]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:46:37]: And literally, when we're having that conversation, you're worrying about worrying about worrying. So.

John [00:46:43]: I was in.

Sabrina [00:46:46]: Realistically, does that make any sense? Absolutely not.

John [00:46:49]: But we also know that that's what.

Sabrina [00:46:51]: I'm trying to say.

John [00:46:52]: We have the knowledge.

Sabrina [00:46:53]: Yeah.

John [00:46:54]: But we can't stop the emotion.

Sabrina [00:46:57]: You're in your head and, like, when your hormones are, like, going up and down and up and down, and you're just like, I really. Like, I can tell him. I. I literally have said, baby, I've got the wheel again.

Nicole [00:47:06]: Yeah, she's come back. She's come back and she's being like, oh, like, yeah, she's gone. I've got the wheel again. Like. Like, I'm. I'm back in control. I'm logical again. I'm like, oh, there you are. All like.

Sabrina [00:47:18]: But if you fight the, like the. The little gremlin in all women.

Unknown_D [00:47:23]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:47:24]: Then it's only going to.

John [00:47:25]: Then it multiplies.

Sabrina [00:47:28]: Yeah. And, like, you don't want to multiply the gremlin. No.

Unknown_D [00:47:31]: I think. I think a woman's greatest fear is that if he really knew how crazy I was, if he really knew how crazy I was, then he would not love me. And I think that's why also that. That when it comes out and it's responded to in a negative way, it's a reinforcement of that fear of, like, oh, see, I knew it. And he doesn't even know I'm holding back all the stuff that's really. So it's like he's getting upset at this little. Just seeing the tail of the demon and wait till he sees the whole thing. But, yeah, but I think that's the thing. And that's why, as a man, like, if you can show a woman that. No, there's nothing you're gonna show me that is gonna fade, like, I am gonna love you no matter what.

Sabrina [00:48:18]: Beautiful rock and the waves of a woman's emotions. One of our friends said that Kim and Artem. And she told Artem that he was the rock in her life and she was the ocean. And he's telling me this with tears in his eyes. I'm like, oh, this is the sweetest thing. And Artem is this Russian dude that has had his heart fully broken open as well. And that's the beauty about being again, going back to modern, traditional relationship is that, like, as a man, you should open up your heart to your woman. And that's what a true, beautiful, like, feminine woman will bring to you, is she will crack your heart open and, like, let you flourish by. And then also keep you strong all at the same time.

Nicole [00:49:09]: Cause you protect her heart. Yeah, you're cracking it open, but, like.

Sabrina [00:49:13]: You'Re cracking it safe. Yeah, you're cracking it open. And then you're like, you can grow.

John [00:49:17]: She'll love you even more.

Sabrina [00:49:18]: Yeah.

John [00:49:18]: Like. Cause you're showing her all of you.

Nicole [00:49:21]: Like.

Unknown_D [00:49:22]: Yeah.

John [00:49:22]: And then when you love her, when she shows you all of her.

Nicole [00:49:27]: Yeah.

John [00:49:27]: It just creates this beautiful.

Sabrina [00:49:30]: Yeah.

John [00:49:31]: Connection.

Unknown_D [00:49:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:32]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:49:32]: Don't be mean. Like, when a girl's showing her, like, her, like, you know, and she's.

Nicole [00:49:37]: I get it, though. Like, it doesn't make sense at first, and you're like, holy.

John [00:49:40]: But you're not. But we don't want you to make sense of it. We just want you to care.

Nicole [00:49:44]: Make sense of it. And you never will. It's not going to, so it's never gonna.

John [00:49:47]: We worry about. Worry about, worry.

Nicole [00:49:48]: Doesn't make sense to you, like, right?

Sabrina [00:49:51]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:49:51]: She's like, but I'm dealing with this, too. Like, I don't make sense to myself right now.

John [00:49:55]: Like, we all don't know what's going on.

Nicole [00:49:57]: No one knows what's going on. But at least we're in it together.

Sabrina [00:49:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:49:59]: And, like, hold your hand.

John [00:50:00]: Yeah, hold your hand. See? And like, Serena said, that can, like, fix it.

Nicole [00:50:04]: You're like, oh, it almost always does. That's what I realized. You see it coming, and I'm just like, okay, we're in this together. And she's like, well, I guess I don't even know why I Was upset.

Unknown_D [00:50:13]: Right.

John [00:50:13]: You confused the gremlin in there. It's like, what, we were gonna fight. We were ready.

Sabrina [00:50:18]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:50:19]: They were like, we're ready.

John [00:50:20]: Show the crazy. And then you're like, oh, no, never mind. What do we want for L. Yeah, I'm better now.

Unknown_D [00:50:26]: Yeah. It's so funny because it's so many times. And I got tripped up with this initially in our relationship, too, until I figured out that it's like she really only cares. It's not even about being right. It's not even about what happened. It's about knowing that as a man, you care about how she feels. You care. It's just that simple. And then the conversation. We don't even have to go through and hash it all out logically and what happened and. And what this. It's just. Just care about how she. It doesn't matter why she feels the way. That's what I used to always get tripped up on.

Nicole [00:50:58]: Like, why? Why? Let's fix it.

Unknown_D [00:50:59]: It doesn't make offensive for her to feel like.

Sabrina [00:51:01]: Or as a man, you feel like, less than. Right? You're like, well, now I'm not. You're, like, attacking me, and I feel like whatever I do is not good enough, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, nope, I'm not saying any of that. Like, I love you. I think the world of you.

John [00:51:15]: It's like, I'm literally just feeling us.

Sabrina [00:51:17]: I'm also feeling xyz. And, like, don't get defensive about it. Like, just acknowledge it, hold space for it, and then let it pass. It's literally.

John [00:51:30]: It's not about you. It's about the Gremlin.

Sabrina [00:51:32]: Yeah, it's about the Gremlin.

John [00:51:33]: Like, that's what you gotta think is a man. It's not. No. Have you named yours?

Nicole [00:51:38]: Yeah, it's Brisbina's. Here Devil. I love that I, like, named it. One time I was like, oh, like, this is the Gremlin. I don't.

Unknown_D [00:51:53]: I remember one time when, like, when we were really getting into some deep stuff, and Nicole was just screaming. Right? And. And she was like, you hate me now? And I was like, no, I love you. Like, it was actually. It was one of the most. Even though she.

John [00:52:06]: I wasn't screaming at him. I was just screaming because I had all this, like, built up.

Unknown_D [00:52:11]: Yeah.

John [00:52:12]: Like, toddler energy. I don't even know where it came from, but I was just like. Like, I was like the David goes to the dentist where he. All of a sudden, he's like, that was me. I was just ra. Like, I wasn't yelling at John. He was just sitting next to me, and I was yelling opposite through it.

Unknown_D [00:52:28]: And. And. But, but, but. Yeah, but it's. You know, I think it's important that you. You see that.

John [00:52:35]: That he wanted to see it. I'm like, go away. Can be alone in the darkness.

Unknown_D [00:52:41]: Yeah, it's like. It's like it's coming. It's like.

Nicole [00:52:44]: It's like the full moon is coming.

Unknown_D [00:52:46]: And she's like, no, you can't be here.

Nicole [00:52:48]: Literally, I'm going to the bathroom, and.

Unknown_D [00:52:51]: I'm gonna lock the door. I'm like, no, I need to see the.

Sabrina [00:52:57]: Popcorn.

Nicole [00:52:58]: Literally.

Unknown_D [00:53:00]: I gotta do this shit.

John [00:53:01]: It's fine. I'm like, no, it's not. Save yourself.

Sabrina [00:53:04]: So, but one thing that, like, you know, when John, like, saw my teeth fully come out, he was like, I actually love you more for it.

Unknown_D [00:53:12]: That's what I love.

Nicole [00:53:13]: I'm glad to know that there's, like, a gnarly little tough animal in there.

John [00:53:17]: Like, primal.

Nicole [00:53:19]: She'd always be like, oh, I'm just a girl. I'm just a girl. And I'm like, all right, well, we don't want just a girl like, protecting our kids if I'm not around. So then, you know, she showed her teeth a few times, and I'm like, oh, nope, she's not just a girl. She's got some.

John [00:53:32]: She not just a girl.

Nicole [00:53:33]: Fighting her. She's a tiger.

John [00:53:34]: What is it there?

Sabrina [00:53:41]: No.

John [00:53:42]: It's so true, though. But that's why, like, opening up and putting it all on the table, you get closer to your partner, you feel their love deeper than you've ever felt it, because they're seeing all sides of you. You're like, they love me for me because I've shown them the good, the bad, the ugly, showed them everything, and they're still here, and we'll get through whatever, and, you know, that's important.

Unknown_D [00:54:05]: And. And I found just with Nicole helping me to heal all the parts of me that I've just become a lot more loving person to everyone. I show up better with every person that I'm interacting with, with Sophia, just because I don't have that chip on my shoulder anymore, and because I have the love flowing through me that I can share that with everyone.

Nicole [00:54:31]: If you're being truly authentic with your partner, who's like, you're everything, right? Like, you're with them more than anyone else. And if, like, the authenticity is there, then it's gonna just Be you're just being authentic in general, and the world gets that version of you, which is what the world needs.

John [00:54:48]: Exactly.

Sabrina [00:54:48]: And you should always want to treat your partner with, like, the utmost, like, respect, love, and, like, you know, do put your partner on a pedestal and, like, shower them with love. And obviously, we make mistakes and we do things that are out of pocket from time to time, but don't ever let that be the norm. I pride myself in knowing I don't call John names, right? There was once that he did something really fucked up, and I called him names, and he kind of deserved it. And then I was like, but now I'm going back literally once in the entirety of our relationship that I've ever called him names. And, like. And, you know, and then I went back to him and I was like, you know what? I'm sorry. Like, I. And, like, got back into my integrity of, like, I'm not gonna disrespect you like that. And, like, I'm gonna love you and cherish you and worship you, like, the way, like. Because if I worship him, he worships me, you know? And like, how good does that feel like to be like, the. The God and goddess in each other's lives?

Nicole [00:55:54]: You realize it's like, you don't. If you don't look at what their. How your partner's showing up, just. You just focus on showing up the best way possible, right? Like, if I'm like, oh, she's not doing this or she's not doing, then it's. That's going to perpetuate. But if I'm just like, well, how can I show up for her right now? What might she need? What might she need? Like, what could I do here?

Unknown_D [00:56:13]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:56:13]: And if I just do that constantly and you. I mean, whether you're in a relationship or not, just like, see what you could do for the world. And the world just gives it, just pours it back into you.

Unknown_D [00:56:22]: If I'm 100 looking out for Nicole and not myself, and she's 100% looking out for me, if you have that, then you're getting better taken care of than you would take care of yourself.

Sabrina [00:56:33]: No, with yourself, you can just like, kind of like, sit, eat a bag of chips, not work out, like, drink, go party, do all these things that, like, are horrible on yourself versus, like, with him. I'm like, are we drinking enough water? John, have you drank your water today? Like, oh, are you, like, you know, watching our diets? And like, john, what did you eat today?

Nicole [00:56:53]: John, you haven't eaten any breakfast yet. You need to eat.

Sabrina [00:56:55]: Yeah. Like, babe, you need some protein. Like, honestly, being.

Nicole [00:56:58]: And then we fall off it where we like, start focusing on, oh, you're not doing this, or you're not doing this. And then that perpetuates and it just, like, things start to fall apart. But then if we jump back into it, it's like, how can I show up? What. What do you need? Or what can I do for you? Then we just flourish and it's. We have so much control over it. And I mean, obviously, like, at fault. We falter because.

John [00:57:20]: Right. We're human.

Nicole [00:57:21]: We're. Yeah. Living the human experience. But it is really cool when you recognize that, like, how much your effort just comes back to you in life. And it's in everything. In every relationship and all. Like, the work you do and everything. If you go out and just, like, put in. Put it in.

Unknown_D [00:57:36]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:57:37]: Everything comes back in spades.

John [00:57:39]: That's true.

Unknown_D [00:57:40]: Yeah.

John [00:57:40]: Law of attraction.

Sabrina [00:57:43]: Pronoa, baby.

Unknown_D [00:57:46]: Yeah. Yeah. I've been really trying to live the pronoia since the.

Sabrina [00:57:50]: Yeah.

Unknown_D [00:57:51]: Yeah. It makes a huge difference. Just, like, seeing the positive in every everything, you know?

Nicole [00:57:57]: Yeah. And you don't have to, like. We don't have to, like, put a label on. Like, everything's positive. Things are shitty.

Sabrina [00:58:05]: No.

Nicole [00:58:05]: But sometimes shit hurts and sucks. But, like, this is good shit. It's all teaching you lessons. It's all making you a better version of yourself. Like, it's all happening as it's supposed to.

Sabrina [00:58:17]: But if you didn't have the shit, like, if you weren't, what are you gonna appreciate?

Nicole [00:58:21]: You don't appreciate the good stuff.

Sabrina [00:58:22]: There's literally no way that you can, like, that you can appreciate the, like, the love and the light that you have in your life. That's true. Like, you had to go through, like, ugly times in your childhood, as did I, to be able to really appreciate this. Or then I would just be taking this for granted and honestly.

Nicole [00:58:37]: Yeah.

Sabrina [00:58:38]: That would feel kind of, like, mean.

Nicole [00:58:39]: As much to us.

Sabrina [00:58:40]: No, it would be like, oh, this is just the norm. It would be as if, you know, having eggs in the morning, which actually eggs have. In the morning, really. But, you know, like, something that trivial just wouldn't appreciate it. It's not like, oh, I'm having Wagyu in the morning.

Nicole [00:58:55]: But instead we're like, wow, like, this is sacred. Because we had to go through shit where we didn't have this, or, like, our past traumas. We didn't not have known this type of relationship. Was possible, and now we're like, oh, wow, it is possible, and we appreciate it so much more.

Sabrina [00:59:09]: That's true.

John [00:59:10]: That's so true. True.

Unknown_D [00:59:11]: All right, well, I think we're.

John [00:59:13]: We hit the hour again. See it goes.

Unknown_D [00:59:17]: See it goes. It goes pretty fast, though. But yeah, thanks.

Nicole [00:59:20]: Great.

Unknown_D [00:59:21]: Check you guys on here and. And I'm sure you'll be on again for sure. So.

John [00:59:28]: Yeah, Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:29]: I mean, this is fun. So anytime.

Sabrina [00:59:31]: Our first podcast.

Unknown_D [00:59:33]: Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations.

John [00:59:34]: You guys did great.

Unknown_D [00:59:35]: Yeah. All right, well, yeah, yeah, make sure you tune in next time if you haven't already. Give us a, you know, a nice review. And we like.

John [00:59:44]: And subscribe.

Unknown_D [00:59:44]: That's right. Yeah. Like and subscribe.

Sabrina [00:59:46]: Subscribe.

Unknown_D [00:59:47]: We got the. The clips on the. On Instagram if you don't have time for the whole episode. And if you got a question for us, email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com and we will see you next week. Take care.

John [01:00:01]: Through every fault, we find our way.