John: And I've told guys the same thing. It's like you would tell a guy the same thing. You'd be like, "Look, you're short, you don't have a lot of money, you don't have a lot of status. Let's not just hit on only the tens. I'm not saying you can't have an attractive woman. You're not going to get a ten. Let's be real. I've had to have this conversation with a guy. It's just not going to happen. A woman that's attractive to you, talk to her. You don't have to be like, 'She has to be the hottest woman anyone's ever seen.' It's not because we're trying to be mean. It's just you got to be realistic about it. But if you're going to compromise your standards, compromise them on maybe the looks or maybe the status, but don't compromise them on the character and the values. Through our flaws, we complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. Alright, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship."

Nicole: "Right, and you're back for part two. Part two. I guess we'll just cut straight to it, right? No, should just say this is the 'How to Attract a Man vs. Keep a Man' episode. Yeah, so this is like if you haven't seen part one, I would go back and watch that because this is basically how to attract a man versus how to keep a man. And in the previous episode, we were mostly targeting women in their 20s, younger women."

John: "Yeah, younger women. And we're going to wrap that part up with your statements on that, and then we'll talk about older women."

Nicole: "That's true. Yeah. So, John ended the last episode kind of talking about what women could do to ensure that when they get older, as a woman, that their man is still attracted to them and isn't just going to leave them for a younger woman because, I mean, you hear that all the time from women being like, 'Oh, well, he's just going to leave you for a younger woman.' And, you know, a lot of men do that for multiple reasons. Some men do it because they're not treated correctly, like you said, and they're kind of like, 'Well, why wouldn't I go be with someone younger if I can get someone younger?' Some men start out where they don't have status or, you know, they're not making a lot of money, and they're with somebody, and then they become more wealthy or get a higher status, and they'll leave because now they can get those women. And I mean, I don't think that's the right way to be at all, but that's also another possibility. And, you know, as a woman, again, you know, I'm not that far from my 20s, but at the same time, I know the same reality of I'm getting older, and we're having this conversation, and I know that you love me, and I know that you've told me multiple times that you can't wait for us to get older and things like that. And I believe you. Yeah, but it is, it's even hard for me, yeah, to hear, you know, 'Well, men, they're super attracted to this,' and it just drastically changes when you get older. And as a woman, it feels kind of hopeless. I'm not going to lie because it's something you can't change. We're all getting older, yeah, or we're in the ground. You're either getting older or you're in the ground, and neither of them, you know, are going to allow you to be in a relationship or attract a man in those circumstances. Hopefully not. We won't even get into necrophilia, but um, yeah, let's not. Go seek help, yeah, please."

John: "But I think all the things that you said in regards to how you can create in a man the circumstance of, he wouldn't even be focused on that, was all really good things that you said. And I think, though, the thing I wanted to add is that what also deepens your and my connection, I should say, is that we put into practice a lot of the things that we sit here and talk about week after week. And, you know, if you're new here and this is your first episode, you should go back and watch a lot of them because, yes, you can create a good relationship out of maybe something that's not so good, right? But the key really is to not just settle down with a man that's high value. You need to settle down with a man that you value, you respect, you look up to, you trust, right? Because it doesn't matter how much money that man has or how much status that man has. If you don't trust him, if you wouldn't follow his lead, if you don't respect him, right?"

Nicole: "Exactly. Even if there are things that really bother you about him, and even if they're little things, yeah, you're, it's going to be harder for you to have the sort of connection that we're talking about. And it's going to be harder for you to treat him like a king or like someone that you really value when there are all these things that are kind of counteracting that. So, I think it's important that as a woman, and a young woman, that you really take the time to vet somebody. You have those standards, like we were talking about, because the safest way to ensure that you marry someone that is going to treat you well is by having the standards, yeah, and not, and having boundaries and not allowing a man to yell at you or, you know, a lot of the things that we talk about, men not allowing women to do, treat you in an aggressive way or degrade you in some way or all these things. Like, having the standards will prevent you from being in that situation. I'm not saying that it's always foolproof because that would be foolish to say. There's definitely people, men or women, who trick people into thinking they're one person, and then, and they can do it for a long time, right? And then, you know, they end up being someone else, or, you know, something happens, and they flip a switch, kind of Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So, I'm not saying that it's foolproof, but when you have really good standards, and again, you should be creating and kind of refining those standards every date you go on, yeah, so that by the time you're, you know what you want, and you're set in that, yeah, you're not going to accept anything less. You should not be settling. You should not be in a relationship or marrying men solely for their status, just like guys aren't going to marry a woman solely for how they look, right? And if they do, then it's very superficial. Again, if you marry a man for that, you're not going to, you can't expect true love unless there's all these other things there, the substance is there for him as well. So, I think it's really important for women to realize that, you know, if you don't respect the man before you marry him, or you don't trust him, yeah, then you either need to resolve those issues before you get married, or don't marry that man. And, you know, women cannot make kings. You're not going to make a king out of a man. You have to attract a king, right? And so, it's really important."

John: It's like if I could draw this, I wish I could draw it, but it's like a funnel paper. That's everyone could see it, you know, could draw it myself. So, it's like young and hot is going to attract a wide range of men, right? Having the qualities of being feminine, of your character, is going to attract the Kings out of that. And then the third step is keeping the King. So, it's like, as a woman, you can't be like, "Oh, I'm going to make the man into what I want him to be." Your widest net is when you're younger and hot. Let's just be honest, that's your widest net. So, you got a lot more to work with, and then you're filtering it down by your standards. By having high standards, that's what attracts the king and gets him to actually want to get into a relationship with you. But you can't try and make the king. You got to attract the king. He's already got to be that kind of man, to a degree, at least.

Nicole: He does. And then to keep him in the long term, that's where it comes into the things like we talked about, reading like "The Surrendered Wife" or "Empowered Wife," whichever you know, and really focusing on how do you show up in the relationship, in the marriage, and constantly working. A lot of women don't really work on the marriage. A lot of men don't either, but I would say that it's weird is that there's more focus on therapy and stuff for men to start working on the marriage, but women don't tend to work on the marriage as trying to be feminine, trying to be a good wife. That's fairly rare today, I would say. But if you are that, then you're going to keep that guy. And it's easier to do all the things to keep a man, or at least learn the things because I do genuinely believe that women are confused at what men really want. Because we think they want the romance, and I'm not saying they don't at all, but men don't want flowers. They don't want, you know, even bringing him a nice thing that reminds you of him. I'm not saying he doesn't want that, but like you said, he wants to be desired, he wants respect, he wants your trust in his leadership and things like that. And women genuinely don't know these things because there's not a lot of resources on these things either.

John: Yeah, and I think also some of the reason that women don't work on the marriage or things like that is because men are just perpetuating, "Well, be young and hot and have sex," or you know, like that there is something to say that that is also causing women to not have substance in these other areas. Because if you tell women it's all superficial, right, which again is why we did this whole episode. That's the wide net, but then you got, yeah, but that's not... But men don't go in, they're not telling the secrets like you're telling. They don't go into that. They're just like, "Men want hot young women," right? Yeah, sure, but like, there has to be the substance there. You can't just be young and hot or be a woman or be just like, "Okay, well, we're married, so because men do this too. We're married now, so I can just stop doing all the things I did before." Men stop doing the romance, women stop, you know, putting on the lingerie or whatever. And the thing is though, that I feel like when you have a relationship like us, though, and I'm not saying that we're perfect either, there's been plenty of times where I've not been, you know, figuring out what, how to give you the romance that you need. And again, like, that's my responsibility. But that's how I also know that women, they're not being told these things. They're not being told.

Nicole: It's true. And but I think though, when you're in a relationship where you respect the man and you value him at such a high degree, and you know, again, that he can't be replaced, just like a man has to know that you can't be replaced as a woman, then you will like, it'll be so easy to treat him like a king because you know the value. And so you don't want to treat him any less. But that's why these young women need to know, like, this isn't a PSA to settle down with the first guy that seems like he's good or the first high-value man you come across. Like, you still have to have standards, like you said, you still have to vet the man. And you should end up with a man that you truly value and respect and look up to because then it's easy to treat him like a king, and it's easy not to yell at him or call him names or whatever because you have such a high respect for him that those don't even cross your mind. I'm not saying you won't have problems, and you won't have to work those things out, but it will be easier for you if from the beginning you already have those things. And I'm not saying that the people who are dealing with problems don't have those things, but it is probably the case that you lost respect for him somewhere along the way, which decreased his value in your eyes, and so you're treating him more like the pauper than the king.

John: Exactly. And I can tell you from my own experience in life, you know, because I had left my first marriage, right? We talked about this in the other episode, but it had nothing to do with her getting older or looks. It didn't. It had to do with how I was being treated. For me, that's what, you know, and in doing how I did things was not right. I would never condone what I did, you know, how I did things, but still, I can tell you, you know, honestly, that that was not the factor. It was not. And then, on the flip side, when I met you, I was at a point where I was at my peak, in the sense that I was, you know, I was doing a lot of young women, a lot of young beautiful women. But what stood out about you, besides you being young and beautiful...

Nicole: Well, I was 28.

John: Yeah, well, yeah, I was dating women that were younger, right, which is not old.

Nicole: No, it's not old, but I'm just putting out there that I was 28, which some men would call old.

John: Right, some men would call. I want people, you know, also segue into the older women, exactly, that that isn't the end of the world. So, there were plenty of women that if I wanted to have a long-term relationship with them, I certainly could have, even one that I sort of was, again, that was wrong, you know, but I'm just speaking the truth, you know. But what stood out about you was your character, was the feminine core that you had, and how you showed up. And how I remember just how delighted you were to show me the pictures on your phone, and I was like, "She's so sweet."

John: That just warmed my heart. I was like, wow, I can see sitting in bed, looking at pictures on the phone. It impacted me. It wasn't just young and hot. I mean, that was an element of it. You are, for sure. But that's important, you know, to realize that it wasn't that I didn't have plans of settling down.

Nicole: That's why you can change a man's mind who maybe is kind of stuck in the mindset of, "Why do I need to settle down with one person when I can just be with all the hot women?" That's why the standards and the substance, the things that make you unique, matter a lot. More than looks. I understand that men are going to go for looks, but if you're somebody that makes an impact on people, it doesn't matter how you look. It's more important, in the sense that there is still relevance to think about. As a woman, there's a time where you're going to be at the peak opportunity, and that will fade over time. But that doesn't mean that a man's not going to pick you. There's a sufficient level of attraction that needs to be there, but if you're in the game and your character is much higher quality than other women, the man is going to pick you.

John: That's true. I can 100% attest to that because I have seen it happen. I have coached a lot of guys and helped them become very successful with women. After they've become successful, they've told me they don't want to keep living this life. They want to find someone they can just be with. They've had the hot women; that's not their top priority anymore. Now they're like, "Yeah, she needs to be hot enough that I'm attracted to her, but I'm looking for other qualities." If being hot enough was enough, then they wouldn't be over that. Just being young and hot and sleeping with women was enough, you'd still be doing it.

Nicole: Women, especially those past the wall, which I'm one of those women according to the technical age that a lot of people say, even though your window of highest opportunity might have passed, that doesn't mean you're going to be old and alone. If you make an impact on people in a good way and you have good character and standards, you can be happier than a lot of people who got married and might have a successful husband but are living this lonely, miserable life. I always had the belief that I'm not going to get married unless I have the relationship that I wanted. It was a really high bar to have. My parents are still together, but they don't have the romantic, loving relationship like you and I have. I wanted this sort of relationship. The relationship that you and I have is far beyond even the one I had in my mind. People used to tell me maybe you should lower your standards, but I never believed them. I would have genuinely waited till I was 50 or 60 years old if I had to for a love like you and I have to come around. It mattered about the love, which is also key for both younger and older women to have. Have less standards on what the man looks like or his job and have more standards on the love you want to have. Even if you and I lost everything and we had to be in a box right now, I'd still be happy because it's the love that you and I have. It's not the end of the world if you're past the wall.

John: What women who are over 27, that just sounds so young to me. I feel like 30 is the... But again, it's not a hard and fast thing. If you party a lot and do a lot of drugs, then it's going to come quicker. But the point is, it doesn't matter where exactly that is. You just have to understand there's some point where things are going to drop off more dramatically. But it's not the end of the world. There are some expectations that are expected of you as an older woman. At this point, you better have your stuff figured out, like who you are, some kind of spiritual and emotional development. If you're bringing in a ton of baggage that you haven't worked out and done your own self-work, it's not good.

Nicole: I feel like any older person, older than 35, maybe even 30, to be honest, that's in this day and...

John: Age is a factor. If someone is very set in their ways, not having a growth mindset or wanting to better themselves, they're not changing. It would take a miracle for them to change because the older people get, the more set in their ways they get. And so, if you're not emotionally intelligent or at the level where you should be by the age that you are, that is going to be a huge red flag for anyone, man or woman, because it's probably not changing. I'm not saying it can't change at all, but the older people get, the more stuck in their ways they are because they've already been doing this for however many years.

Nicole: I agree. I just wanted to add in there because it's a huge thing. A lot of the guys I coach, the complaint they have about women that are older is that they're carrying a lot of baggage. They've got a lot to unpack, sometimes even on the first date. They're unpacking all this stuff, and it's like, I get it, you had a hard life, you probably went through a divorce or whatever, but you've got to deal with that stuff. You can't just keep bringing it forward. You've got to take the time and actually deal with that so that you can have that growth mindset and radiate that feminine energy. You can't be bitter and hate men and all this stuff. And you definitely better not be feminist at that point if you're thinking you're going to attract a quality guy because he's not going to tolerate it. This is the truth of it. Again, it doesn't mean that you can't do what you want to do and live your life, but the man-hating at that stage could be tolerated in the 20s; it's definitely not going to be tolerated in the 30s and 40s. You can't hate men and expect to get a man, just like men can't hate women and expect to get a woman. At that age, it's not going to be tolerated at all by a guy.

John: And I would say, obviously, you can't just dwell on the past, but I think the thing that's important to understand is just to not be in denial of it. There are a lot of older women who really do a number on younger women by telling them, "Oh, you don't have to worry, you've got plenty of time. It doesn't matter in your 30s or 40s, you'll be just as attractive, maybe even more so." When you say that, you're poisoning people. That's not good, and you're poisoning yourself because that's not the reality. And again, you have to just accept the reality, but it's okay. It's not a bad reality; it's just the truth of it. But if you won't accept that yourself, here's what's going to happen: you're going to think that that's true, you're going to kid yourself into doing that, and then you're going to act like that's true. So, you're going to pretend that way, that your value is higher than what it is. And when you do that, what's going to happen is you're going to alienate yourself from the guys that actually would be good relationships for you. You're going to discard those guys, and that's not a good plan.

Nicole: Something that you said was about older women telling younger women that, "Oh well, you'll be hot in your 30s or 40s, maybe even hotter." And that could be true in some ways, like you said, some people are late bloomers. But I think what's better for women, older women to tell the girls in their 20s, is that you have the highest opportunity right now, being 20. So, figure out what you want and go after that, and settle down if you find that. Because the thing is, just like you were saying, we can't put an age on the wall, even though people try to do that. You can't really say that people might not be more attractive. Yes, in general, there is a difference, but some people do blossom later. I'm not saying they're going to be the hottest that they've been at 40, but it's also a little bit different now where, you know, if you take care of yourself and do all these things, you're not dropping off the Mariana Trench when you hit 35. But that's with plastic surgery and all those things, right? So, again, maybe there's the rare exception, but you shouldn't just count on it. It's like you shouldn't count on winning the lottery. Maybe you win the lottery; hey, if you do, good. Don't count on it. That's all I'm saying. It's in general, you know, even men, like men have a little bit of an advantage because the way that women are attracted to men is more of an encompassing thing of the man and how he carries himself and the status and all these other things. There's obviously the physical attribute to it too, but even men, as they get older past a certain point, they're not going to be as attractive. That's just how it is. You get old, you get wrinkled; everyone suffers the same fate. It's just that because women's value on their sexual marketplace value is more based on beauty and youth, it affects them more. That's the truth of it. But also, at the same time, everybody knows that those things fade.

Nicole: Right. And so, the reason that I feel like women don't focus as much as men do, even though women do know to some extent, or now they'll know after watching this, that men value that, is that it's not permanent. Especially older women, they get to a point too where they're like, "If you don't like me for who I am right then, it's not going to matter anyway." Because they know that they're not 20. They know that they're not in the same playing field in a lot of ways as the younger women are, but also at the same time, they don't want shallow relationships. A lot of the time, I feel like the only older women who want shallow relationships are ones who didn't interact with shallow relationships in their 20s. They were either married or in a long-term relationship that ended up breaking up, but took up maybe 10 years of their life. So, most older women have a better understanding of what they want. It is harder for them to find it because they don't have the initial attraction of being 20 years old, but they also are less likely to.

John: Settle for, you know, a superficial relationship, yeah, as far as like them having to worry about being hot all the time, whereas like a 20-year-old might interact in a relationship like that where they're like, "Oh, well, I have to wear makeup to the grocery store." Like, a lot of women that are older, they're like, "I'm not putting on makeup to go to the grocery store." Like, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be presentable if they're going out on a date, but it's a different mindset a lot of the times. And I'm not saying that these women are like, "I don't care about being attracted to men," right? But they also are smart enough at that point, usually, to know that they can't control the age attraction. There are a lot of them that aren't though, there's a lot of them that are in denial being their age, yeah, and that are more so on the makeup all the time and right because, well, yeah, you're right. There are some. I feel like most women though, that have done a lot of the work and they have the standards and things like that, then they're not a part of that. There's also the whole like, "Yeah, I like you either like me or you don't," but then it's like, "Yeah, but do you even like you? Like, you know, have you done the work? If you've done the work, then yeah, then you should absolutely have that attitude. But if you haven't done the work, then you shouldn't." Just like when we give guys the advice of "be yourself," such bad advice because yourself is a little shit right now. Like, you need to grow up and be a man, and then be yourself. Like, grow into the actual man that you are and be that man. Don't just be yourself, like where you are like, "I just jerk off and play video games, and that's myself," right? No, that's honest, but it's not your capable self, you know? That's not what's in there. There's a lion somewhere in there. You got to find it and bring it out and become that, right?

Nicole: Well, one of the things that I wanted to say also is to women that are older too, and because I see this a lot, is that women that are already married right now that are older, fix your marriage because you don't, you think because, and this is actually maybe the better, the worst lie that a lot of women tell each other is that, "Oh yeah, you can just get a divorce and then find another man." They say that, "Oh yeah, yeah." Why, I don't know why. It's pretty delusional, but it's not going to be easy, especially if you have kids in tow. And so, rather than trying to be like, "Oh, I'm going to just find another man," try to fix the relationship that you're in. Try to work and become that, you know, read the books that we said and do that because that's a much better road than being single at 40 or whatever it is, you know what I mean? I mean, if you are, you are, but it's not going to be as easy as some women are telling other women that it is.

John: Well, here's a PSA to women who are in this boat, these older women. As a 20-year-old, dating sucked. Yeah, there is no world where I would want to be 40 having to date. I've already told you that if you and I don't work out, which isn't going to happen, but I ain't, I'm going to go live in a little cottage and have dogs. That's it. I'll be happy like in that. But you know, I would not want to date with, like you said, 'cause you are going to have baggage. Like, there are going to be unavoidable baggage, like if you have kids, right? Or, you know, if you have gone through a lot of stuff in life. And yes, you need to work on those things, and you need to go to therapy if you need therapy. You need to watch those podcasts. If you need to watch this podcast, you need to figure out, you need to watch other podcasts on, you know, emotional intelligence and healing yourself and growth mindset or whatever it is you need. Like, you should be doing those things, right? But you know, I would not want to date as a 40-year-old because you're already going to have those, or even anyone, even 35, right? Because it's not super enjoyable as a 20-year-old because, and the part that's not enjoyable, 'cause again, I'm not trying to contradict what I said in the other one, like you should make dating a fun experience and a learning experience, but it's not fun as a woman to invest in men who aren't investing back in you, right? Yeah, or, you know, get your hopes up about a guy you really liked, but he didn't like you back, right? And if you're older, yeah, and some of those guys might be able to get some of the younger girls, and so you're still now, you're dealing with people your age and younger girls. Whereas when you're 20, you like, yeah, there might still some be older women that are, you know, dating the same people you're dating, but like you said, you have a higher advantage just because of biology, just because of how you look, just because of the superficial, yeah. So, any woman that thinks they can just leave their husband and find someone else, right, doesn't really know what the dating scene is like. And to be honest, just the dating scene in 2025 seems like even more of a nightmare than when I dated when I was in my 20s, right?

Nicole: Exactly. So, you know, I'm not saying don't leave the situation you're in as an older woman if you're being abused or if you're being cheated on, and you want to leave, yeah, obviously, those things are valid, right? But like you said, the better thing to do is to try to, you know, if you are married, talking to these women, right? Instead of being like, "I'll just go find a new one," right? Try to fix your relationship if you're not in one of those situations where you should leave. Get the respect back for your husband, yep, and your relationship can be even better than when you first got married or when you first started dating, yeah. Like, and that's way better to rekindle or and even enhance the situation, the relationship that you were in already than trying to go find an even smaller needle in a haystack. I would say a grain of sand in a haystack, exactly, yeah. And read the books that we said, like watch our episode on "The Surrendered Wife" or "The Empowered Wife." Read those books. It will help. And obviously, watch the podcast because we're just focused on helping you build a better relationship, and we talk to both men and women, and we equally slap y'all around. So, like, if you're upset at us today, don't worry, next episode the men will be upset. So, because we're speaking the truth as best as we can. And no one here's saying that value your values and your looks, no, it's not true. If anything, we're saying the opposite, is that you have to have value as yourself, as a person, right.

John: Anything else, but you have to be grounded in reality. That's all we're trying to say. You have to realize how the world works and understand that. Some people aren't grounded in reality. They just think that what their ideals are is what people should conform to, and that's not the case. But, yeah, I don't think it's hopeless at all. In fact, I think that if you have the opportunity as an older woman to be a much more feminine, mature woman who radiates feminine energy, that is attractive in its own right. That can outshine even younger women in that way. You have the wisdom and the knowledge they don't necessarily have.

Nicole: And I wanted to say that if you're a woman in this sort of half of who we're talking about, instead of focusing on the plastic surgery or trying to look like you're in your 20s still, focus on developing yourself as a person. Just like I told the 20-year-olds, the thing that will make you stand out the most and have the most impact even on dates and your future partner is who you are as a person. So, instead of being like, "I'm going to go get this plastic surgery," be like, "I'm going to go work on not allowing things to anger me or cause a reaction out of me." Work on, instead of being so aggressive and in control, I'm going to learn to be soft and not stress about it and be more at peace. Maybe pick up a hobby that gives me more serenity in my life. Focus on those things and who you are and how that isn't replaceable. You'll never find another me. I'm not saying that in a cocky way, like, "I'm so amazing, you'll never find another me." I'm saying that in a way that you could find somebody that maybe treats you similarly, but they will never have the quirks and the special things that make me, me.

John: Exactly. That's why it has to be a mixture of your standards and how you treat people mixed with the unique things about you. Even if they're not the best, those things can still be endearing if they're done in the right way.

Nicole: Yeah, I get what you're saying. The uniqueness of it, right? Because those traits become endearing based on how you show up in the relationship and how you treat people.

John: Exactly. Because the same thing that could be annoying could be endearing. It just depends on the perception based on how you're showing up in the relationship. If you're the kind of woman that is focused on learning these things, what guy would not want to date a woman who is older but understands how to actually be good in the relationship and take care of a man and treat him like a king, and elevate him to a higher spiritual level? As a man, I can say that most men, if you're a high-quality man and you understand these things, if you marry a young woman, you're going to have to teach her these things. It's not just something that women are taught. So, it's going to be a lot of effort and work to lead the relationship to where it needs to go. But if you have a woman that already understands these things, that's already that far along, sees the value, there's a huge value in that.

Nicole: So, I'm just saying, there is an appeal to it. But as an older woman, you can't just be like, "Oh yeah, age doesn't matter, looks don't matter. I can look just as good as a younger woman." When they have that mindset, the downfall is that then they don't think they have to show up. They can just show up however they want. And if you realize that you're competing with younger women, and that is a high bar for attracting a man's attention, then you understand that you've got to be showing up with something much more. Like I said, if you're a woman that already understands these things, you've been watching this podcast, you understand, "Hey, if I'm in a relationship with you, I'm going to be feminine, I'm going to treat you right. I've worked on all these things." That moves the balance where it's like, "Yeah, these ditsy young women, not for me. I don't like that. I want a mature woman that gets it." But if you're a mature woman and you don't get it, don't kid yourself. How are you going to compete?

John: Right. Are there any other sections? I feel like we did quite a few sections for the young girls, but there's just not as much because prevention is the best cure. Younger girls need more of the message because they have more control over their future than someone who's older. So, that's why we talked more.

Nicole: That just sounds so hopeless.

John: I know it's not, and I know we're trying to give them information to help them. As a woman, who you are shines brighter than any way you look. Like, a man has to be attracted to you, yes, but who you are and how you treat him, because if you're a kind, good person, you're going to treat people well. Usually, they correlate.

Nicole: Right, exactly. It's usually how it goes. So, if a man, when he interacts with you, can sense these things about you and knows how genuine and authentic and kind you are, he's going to choose that over something that just looks shiny and brand new.

John: Given. And if he doesn't, that's also not a man that you want to be with. Some men want a shiny new Ferrari, right? And maybe all men kind of want a shiny new Ferrari. But there's also some men that like vintage cars.

John: But they're restored vintage cars. That's not always... I mean, yeah, they're restored, but the restoring of a vintage car, right, doesn't look like a Ferrari. It's not modernized like a Ferrari, and the way that you restore a vintage car is a lot of times what's on the outside rather than the inside.

Nicole: Yeah, or the inside rather than the outside. I know what you're saying, the opposite. So, what I'm just trying to say is that the things that you cultivate inside of you as a woman, that can't give a man the shiny newness that she was at one point, is insanely valuable to the right man. Because also, like, if I was single in my 40s or even late 30s, I don't want a man where I have to compete with 20-year-olds because I'm not in that competition. I'm not a soccer player going to a basketball game.

John: I see what you're saying. I'm not doing that. So, I want a man that values what I'm bringing to the table, which is...

Nicole: I was trying not to use those words, and then you used them. I was like, the value you bring, like, I was dancing all around it, and then you said it. I know, but you know what I mean. I don't mean it in the way that we're talking about bringing to the relationship. I want someone that values that, especially because I can't compete in that. I'm not going to win a basketball game if I'm a soccer player.

John: Right, and so I think that's too similar to what you're saying, as far as, you know, don't have the same standards that you had at 20. Don't think that you can compete in the basketball game the way that you used to. I'm not saying you can't even be in the basketball game, but don't think that, like, if you're over here playing soccer now, that you have to compete in the basketball game.

Nicole: Right, like, your tastes do change. And that is true, actually. There are some statistics, charts from dating apps, from a bunch of compiled data, showing that men, as they age, their preference for the age of a woman stays pretty much exactly the same as in their 20s. And women, as they age, their preference for the age of a man, when they're in their 20s, is actually more preference to 20s, but as they start to get into their 30s, then it starts to jump to like 40, and then it kind of stays a little bit higher than their own age until they hit about 50 or 60, and then it actually drops slower than their age.

John: Everyone would prefer someone that's less wrinkly, I guess. But the point is, like, I think you're making a good point, which is that we tell the same thing, and I've told guys this, the same thing. You'd be like, look dude, you're short, you don't have a lot of money, you don't have a lot of status, let's not just hit on only the tens. I'm not saying you can't have an attractive woman, but you're not going to get a 10. Let's be real. I've had to have this conversation with a guy. It's just not going to happen. Maybe you can up everything and get to the point where you could, but hey, just a woman that's attractive to you, talk to her. You don't have to be she has to be the hottest woman I've ever seen in anyone's ever seen.

Nicole: We would give the same advice to a guy, and it's not because we're trying to be mean, it's just you got to be realistic about it. But where you're absolutely right is if you're going to compromise your standards, compromise them on maybe the looks or maybe the status, but don't compromise them on the character and the values. No, you should still be striving for the love standard. That's the one that you don't compromise on.

John: Right, because all those other things are either going to fade over time or they can be taken away or lost. Even status, hey, how many people got bankrupt, or, you know, that happens. Stuff happens, your house burns down, you didn't get insurance. But that's exactly the right way to look at it. It's not trying to be, oh, you're too old now. It's like, no, no, it's just, okay, be realistic about it. You can still find love and you can still find a great man and have a great relationship. You're just not going to be going after the same guys that your 20-year-old self would go after. You should be focusing on the love standard, especially if you're an older woman, than the status and the power or whatever you want to call it that younger women are also attracted to. Because again, that is the thing that is going to cause you to have the relationship that you really want, and that's what everybody's focus should be. It shouldn't be superficial. It should be, I want to be in a happy, loving relationship.

Nicole: And I'm not getting married, or, you know, maybe too. A lot of times, some women, when they get older, they don't even want to get married again, which I get that too. But I wouldn't even enter a relationship as boyfriend or girlfriend, or whatever you want to call it, as you get older, unless they match the love standards that you've set. Because again, like if I was in that boat, I would rather just be alone because I know that no one can meet the standards that you and I have met.

John: Exactly. And so, you know, that's why for me, it's just like, no. But the thing is, a lot of people, they didn't get those love standards met at a younger age because, like you said, they're either divorced or, you know, some women have been trying to find it, but they're not really doing it in the best way, so they've been single for a long time. Like, a lot of women, unfortunately, have been single for a longer time than we've typically seen before. But also, at the same time, I'd rather see women staying single and finding love later in life than just settling for some guy that she doesn't even really, so then she's definitely not going to respect or trust him or those things, and then ends up either miserable for the rest of her life or divorced and then, you know, kind of creating the same patterns over and over again. So, it's still important as a woman who's in her 30s, 40s, 50s, whatever, who's dating, to have that love standard. It's important for everyone to have.

John: Definitely, any woman, regardless of if you're 20 or 60, and even now, we're teaching our daughter how to have standards in relationships because she's getting to that age, you know, where she's getting more interested in boys, and they're doing things wrong. And yeah, you know, she'll even sometimes be like, "Well, I don't want a man or guy who does this," and I'm like, "Good for you," because that's, you know, like you've said a bunch of times on here, I'm pretty sure, that you train people how to treat you.

Nicole: Sooner that you learn how to have standards, and good standards, the easier it'll be to find the love that you want. Yeah, and you should be accumulating those every date you go on, every interaction with the member of the opposite sex, or whoever you're interested in because it doesn't even have to be heterosexual relationships. But you should constantly be learning the things that you want or you don't want, right? And, you know, really striving for the love that you give out and that you want. And the thing is, too, one last thing is that you have to give out the love that you want back, right? You can never expect someone to love you this insane amount when you're not giving that out, or when you don't even love yourself that much. Yeah, so, and by having standards, that also shows yourself how much love you have for yourself. You're like, "I'm not going to waste your time, or I'm not going to allow you to be in a relationship that's not going to serve you or give you the love that you give to other people."

John: Exactly, and again, things might go awry, and I'm not saying that any of this is really foolproof, but you have a way higher percentage of success when you operate this way. Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, the thing I think that the guys, you know, would say, or that they complain about about women and their standards is because it's not the love standard. It's that a lot of women, especially women that are past their prime, they would still have the same standards, a very high standard, and even women in general sometimes have high standards on a man, on the looks, on the status, and they're missing out on the love standard for that. And what happens, especially happens with women that are older, is that they're just going to get played because they're going to, if they go after those guys, those guys are going to sleep with them, sure, and then that's it.

Nicole: Right, and you know, I'm not proud to say that there was a time where I was like, "Oh, let me just change my range to like 30 to 40 on my app back in the day," and it was, I thought, okay, this is like shooting fish from a barrel because it's a lot easier, right? And that's what guys are thinking. Like, I don't shoot the messenger, but I'm just telling you, like, that's what guys are thinking. They're like, "Oh, okay, well, yeah, this will be easier." And it is. And that's because if women are still holding those very high standards of status and looks for men and not having the love standard like you said, then they're kidding themselves because, you know, that's the problem. But, you know, men have the same issue with the standard thing, but women generally tend to have higher standards that are superficial standards in terms of those things, and that kind of hurts them.

John: Yeah, I mean, you can have things that you want because here, that's part of, like, not to get too woo-woo, but the manifestation of it, right? The thing is that you can be like, "Oh, I would like, I'm really attracted to a tall man who has big muscles, sure, and looks like John Bernthal." Like, you can think those things, like, and be like, "I'm attracted to this type of man. He looks like me." But the way to get those things properly is to focus more on the love standard. And I say that because if you focus on just the physical things, you might get those potentially, but you won't have the love part. And the real core is the love part because just like we're sitting here talking about women, we're all going to get older, and men could lose their status at any point. The only thing that you keep is your character and who you are and the love that you share.

Nicole: Exactly, so that should be the main focus. I'm not saying you can't be like, "Oh, I'm attracted to this type of guy." Yeah, but at the same time, you shouldn't be focusing on those things. You should acknowledge those, right, but you should be focusing on the love standard because that is the only consistent thing that is going to be there through the test of time, through aging, through highs and lows. That is what it is. And in order to get potentially some of the thing, and the thing is, when you get the love that you want, yeah, these things don't even really matter if you don't get them, but a lot of times, you still get them. Like, when you and I got together, I know so many of my friends who really knew me were like, "Oh, this guy is 100% Nicole's type." Yeah, and I don't, and I wasn't looking for that. Like, that wasn't my main focus, like maybe initially, 'cause we met on a dating app. I'm like, "Oh, well, I messaged you, and I was like, 'Your face looks nice.'" But the second that I met you and the interaction that we had, you were ticking off all of these love standards that I had, and you embodied the man that I could see myself with long term. So, these things were just a bonus.

John: Yeah, at that point. But I was fully expecting you to just ignore me after I even sent you that message. But I'm just saying that I'm not, I don't want to sit here and tell women they can't find certain things attractive.

Nicole: Yeah, but you can't focus on those things. Like, that can't be your standard of dating. The love standard has to be your standard of dating. You want to, I think I see your New York Times bestseller book. It's called "The Love Standard." That's like a perfect name for a book you could write.

John: Steal it, "The Love Standard," right? I mean, that's true. I think that would fly off the shelves.

Nicole: So, you're like telling me I need to write a book, yeah, called "The Love Standard." We're just all going to be writing a book in our household.

John: Exactly, yeah. I've already done mine, so you guys got to catch up now.

Nicole: So, oh, I see. But yeah, no, this is good. This is good. I think, you know, I think we're gonna get a little bit of hate from it, but hopefully, they're, look, I'm a woman, I'm past the wall, and I guess maybe that's too why I don't feel like we're being negative. We're trying to, yeah, it's...

John: Exactly, and I've sat here on both episodes saying it's hard to hear this as a woman. It's hard for me to sit here and hear it. It's hard to hear it from my husband, and not, and I even told you that the other day when we were talking about it, how knowing that you're saying this to my face, am I going to feel secure in our relationship?

Nicole: Though I do, but at the same time, it's like those words are definitely knocking on the door, trying to get in. And, you know, luckily, I have an amazing husband, and you explained it in the way that you did in the last episode. But I guess that's why I'm not that concerned because I know it's hard to hear. And I know that a lot of women already know this, but that's also why I wanted us to do this episode. It's because it's not hopeless, and a lot of younger women and older women are focusing on the wrong things and never really heard anybody fully dive into it. And again, we're going to post clips, and people are going to take it out of context, and that's probably when they'll be mad. But if they watch the whole episode, I feel like they will understand where we're coming from. It's almost like how some people will take a word and take away the negative power from the word by redefining it. There's a lot of guys out there that are creating a very negative image of the wall and this whole thing. So, it's like taking the power back, right? To say, okay, yeah, there's truth in the thing, but it's not being handled in a very kind way, you know, that's beneficial to anyone. And so, we're not going to deny the truth because there are some people out there denying the truth, and they're getting everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah," but they're not doing anyone any help because they're just blowing smoke up your ass.

Nicole: So, I think it's important because, you know, it's not uncomfortable to make the episode knowing that you have to watch every word you're going to say because, yeah, you know. But it's necessary because it's a truth, and it doesn't have to be presented in a mean and harsh way. Instead, it can be used as an educational way to understand what should you do because of this truth. What's the best way to handle these things? So, we did good. I think you seem a little nervous, but I'm like, no. I mean, past the too. I mean, granted, I'm married, but at the same time, I was technically past the wall when you and I met if you're going by the 27 that some guys say. So, like, the whole point is to not shun women or force young women to get married quickly or tell older women they don't provide anything and they're lesser than. That's not what we're saying. And if you think that's what we're saying, then I don't know any other way for someone to deliver what we're delivering to you properly. And because, also in my mind, I know that you're still like, you know, these are the truths, and they are right. But I don't think women in their 30s, 40s, whatever, should be viewing this as negative because, like I said, you don't want the men that are hunting down 20-year-olds. You don't want them. You want a man who's in his masculine if you're a feminine woman, or you know, you've worked on yourself, and you want a man that's worked on his. Like, you want that love. Like, at that point, the looks don't even really matter to you guys as much anymore. Like, I know I'm already there. Like, I'm not. This isn't about looks like it is when you're younger. When you enter into your 30s and 40s, it's about who you are as a person. It's about developing that part of you. It's about gardening. It's about things that meet the substance. Like, you really get into the substance of who you are and why we're here, and like, you know, love, like what love really is. Like, when you're in your 20s, you don't know what that is, and you're figuring it out, and you're figuring it out the hard way, and it's messy. And like, that's what I'm saying. Like, these women who want to date, who are married in their 40s and stuff, and they're like, "Oh, just go find another one." No, no, no, no. You must not have been dating in your 20s. Because, like, you're being led astray. If anything, if you're intentional with who you are and your growth in life and what you want in love, you will get there. Yeah, and it might be hard because dating in general is hard just right now, and like in society, but I think we're hopefully working on that.

Nicole: Yeah, as a whole, trying in this podcast. That's right. It is funny, though. I was just thinking about, as you're saying that, how it's like if someone says, "Oh, you're so beautiful," it's like such a compliment. Like, "Oh, yeah. I picked great parents. I picked them," or like, "I chose to have my DNA," like, right. Like, you didn't do that. But we give a compliment on the character; it doesn't hit as well, you know? It's like people would rather be complimented on their looks than, I don't know, I'd rather be told I'm a kind, good person. But I'm saying, in general, look beautiful. But I'm saying, in general, like, it's, you know, but you're right.

Nicole: Yeah, it takes no effort. Like, that is something you controlled, even if you put your makeup on, and you did your hair, and whatever. Like, that's not. That's and it's going to be gone. That's like the point of this whole thing is like, and men shouldn't rely solely on their status because it can be wiped out, and women shouldn't rely solely on their looks.

Nicole: Yeah, and it's the same thing. You know, I have these difficult conversations with men too. It's like, we have hard truths. There are hard truths about the nature of women that when guys first learn this thing, they get upset, and they get angry, and that's where that whole thing comes from. And it's like, no, you need to take the facts and listen to them and say, "Thank you," because now you know them, and now you can adapt to them. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. And you know, it's but that's why I think there are a good majority of women past the wall that know that they're not. And even the women that are saying like, "No, you, we are," that might also be just them trying to convince themselves. And I'm not saying that women aren't beautiful, and there aren't women that can compete with some women in their 20s, looks-wise. Like, I'm not saying any of that. But I'm saying to both groups of women, don't rely on your looks. Exactly. Don't rely on them. We're only here telling you that you have a bigger window, right? Because men look at you and how young and whatever you are. But I'm not telling those women to rely on that either. If anything, I'm also stressing hard that you need to start figuring out who the hell you are.

Nicole: Well, and it's also like, you know, it's the same thing. I tell guys all the time is that for jobs, when they're trying to get a job, it's like, look, you only need one job. So, you don't need 10,000 companies that you get interviews at. Right, right. So.

John: You only need one mate, mhm. So, would you rather have 10,000 guys interested in you or 50 who match you right?

Nicole: Right, that's what I'm saying. It's like, yeah, it is important from a sheer numbers perspective, but at the same time, you only need to find one. And the last little thing I'll throw in here because we're running over is that I firmly believe that the person who's meant for you will find you. So, it doesn't matter if you have, like you said, 10,000 companies looking at you or 50. What's meant for you will find you as long as you're putting out there the positivity and the kindness and the love that you want back. It's the Law of Attraction, which we'll get a little bit more into, I think, on the next episode. And you know, the stories we tell ourselves and things like that because it is true. A lot of it is true. So, if you're 20 or if you're 30, 40, 50, 60, 80 years old, if you are just being the best version of yourself and you're looking for the love that you put out and give to other people, you will get that back. I can't tell you the timeline, but I know that you will.

John: Yeah, I agree with that. And if you have that love standard that I'm now going to have to write a book about, the love standard, then you can't go wrong. Alright, I guess we should talk about our shit real quick. So, what's our shit for the week?

Nicole: Oh, it was just about this topic. It was just the thing when you read the book, and then, but it wasn't even really a big but, that was a lot of, I think, miscommunication or misunderstanding. And then, 'cause I definitely wasn't trying to offend you, but you were offended, and I apologized for that. And you know, I wasn't trying to attack your character, and I understood where it came from because it's a very threatening thing. It's, you know, like you said, it's like this doesn't feel very hopeful. It makes me afraid. I'm sure, you know, that's what. So, I get it. So, but yeah, it just, some of the way that it was talked about made me feel a little disrespected, but we handled it.

John: And here we are.

Nicole: Yeah, so, but it was good because it resulted in this episode, which was important because it needed, because it was something that we needed to figure out. Well, it's something too that needs to be talked about more, like more in depth. Because like the day after you and I had that conversation, our daughter was reading a book, and in the book, the guy was like, "I like her 'cause she's young," and she visibly was like, "Ew, that's gross. Like, why is that the characteristic that he's pointing out about her?" Right? And so, she's 13 years old, and she's not even exposed to a lot of social media. And so, women just don't get it. They don't understand why men care so much. Right? And if they just read something like that, if she just reads, "He, oh, I'm only valuable when I'm young," but the thing is, you're not. Granted, you do have more options, and that's beneficial to you, is having more options, but that's not all that there is. But so many people, or even like books, perpetuate these things. And a woman wrote that book, and so, you know, she's probably heard it the same way, and that's why she put it in there because she knows that that's something a man would say. But somebody needed to talk about this, and I hope people get to watch this.

John: Yeah, because I don't know anybody else who's talked about this. And don't shame men for it because it's the same thing as women like a tall guy. It's a preference. It's a biological preference. It's built into your DNA that you prefer a man that's in taller stature, just like a man prefers a woman that's younger. Those are just the, like, we don't need to shame each. Women get shamed for liking tall guys all the time too, and that's not right. I mean, as long men aren't leaving women that they supposedly love when they're older, of course, for something young because that's the difference. It's like women aren't leaving their short husband or husband that's as tall as him for another man because a lot of women, if they're happy and they're in love, it's fine. But a lot of women are afraid that even if a man is happy and in love with you or seems like he is, he would leave you for a younger woman because that's something that they can't control. But shaming people for their preferences is what I'm getting at. You shouldn't shame people for what they like, but men also should not be chasing that if they have a woman that they love.

Nicole: Exactly. So, alright, well, that's it for our super duper long two-part episode. If you didn't see part one, I don't know why you watched this backward, but go ahead. You might as well just start at episode one at the very beginning and watch all the episodes to catch yourself back up. But, uh, yeah, so if you got a question for us, you can email us at betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com. And yeah, leave us a review. If you actually don't leave us a review, no, we don't want your reviews. No, we do. Alright, we'll see you next time. Take care. Through every fault, we find our way.