John [00:00:00]: But don't ask the girl where she's from. Say, I bet you're from South Africa, because that's where you're going to get into the flirt part of it, right?

Nicole [00:00:06]: Because I should have said Australia.

John [00:00:11]: Because of something about down under.

Nicole [00:00:12]: Yeah.

John [00:00:17]: I don't know the. But down under has to be in there. So I guess beyond the perfect we discover through our flaws, we complete each other. Better than perfect. We stand way through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome back to the better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. And what is on your mind today, Nicole? What's going on?

Nicole [00:00:54]: You sound very news station guy today.

John [00:00:59]: Yeah. What stuff has been going on?

Nicole [00:01:04]: I'm trying to think of, like.

John [00:01:08]: We haven't had very much drama in the comments section or anything either.

Nicole [00:01:11]: So it's like, yeah, no, besides this one guy who literally acts like we listen to all his advice. I think his name's Kevin or something. He's always like, oh, good job, John and Nicole, you finally took my advice. Like, Kevin, you're on. I think his name is Kevin. I'm like, you're just always here. Like, we don't even really pay attention to what you're saying. But if you want to think that that's. That's good. People like that, though. I'm just going to comment on all the, like, viral videos and be like, yeah, I told you guys to do that. Thanks for taking my advice.

John [00:01:47]: I'm going to make a channel where I. I, like, call up, I get the phone number of, like, CEOs of big companies and be like, yeah, hey, Frank, it's John here. Yeah, I could see you. You took my advice. Good job on that. Yeah, nice, Nice earning report. Yeah, it's good that you listened to what I said when I sent you that email.

Nicole [00:02:06]: Right. That's exactly.

John [00:02:06]: Don't try, like, I know.

Nicole [00:02:08]: Don't try to deny it. That's basically what he's doing. I'm just like, okay, whatever you want to believe. Honestly, that helps you feel better. Sure, go ahead.

John [00:02:18]: But just take credit for everything from that. Just be like, we'll go into Jimmy John's, make a statement, you know, get. Order a sandwich and be like, oh, yeah, maybe just if you add like two more pickles and then be like, oh, this is the best sandwich I've ever helped someone make.

Nicole [00:02:34]: Yeah, exactly. Like, good thing that you listen to.

John [00:02:36]: My advice on that.

Nicole [00:02:37]: You know, that's basically what he's doing. But yeah, besides Kevin, there hasn't been much. I mean, I guess the most controversial thing going on in. On our stuff is that a lot of women are agreeing that women need to be put in their place. Which I did see someone say that the verbiage of that was a little interesting, but I'm like, okay, I could see her perspective. But I also know that that's not how you meant it. And. But there are men that would use that verbiage who do just, like, want to put down women. Yeah, I know that's not what you. And even you explained it where that's not.

John [00:03:18]: Yeah. Putting in place and putting down is not the same thing, but.

Nicole [00:03:21]: Right.

John [00:03:22]: You know, but also, as a man, you can't. You also have to use strong verbiage. You can't be back in, like, walking on eggshells, dancing around, beating around the bush all the time. Right. I mean, you got to be kind and considerate and. But yeah, you can't be afraid to say what you got to say.

Nicole [00:03:42]: Well, I saw a woman in the comments to actually put it really well, that her husband. I guess she was talking to her husband, and it wasn't in a loving way or respectful way, and he just stopped the conversation was like, we don't talk to each other like that.

John [00:03:58]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:58]: And that I feel like, was the perfect, like, example.

John [00:04:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:02]: That's a good example of how to do it. You know, it's not. It's not mean, it's not belittling, but it's forceful and it's. Yeah, I like too, that she mentioned. And then hopefully he said it this way. Like, using we.

John [00:04:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:17]: Like, that also feels very, like, uniting rather than singling out, you know, like you're doing something wrong, which is the case. Like, anybody knows that. But it causes more defiance when you're like, you're doing this wrong. Right. Like, you don't talk to me that way. Like, I get that. That's essentially what it is.

John [00:04:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:38]: But I think if you're like, in a marriage, just simply being like, we don't talk to each other that way does make it seem more like of a team sort of thing and makes you less likely to get the, like, defensive. Now you're spiraling down the crazy cycle of communication.

John [00:04:57]: I think it's also is more authoritative to say we, because if I say to you, if I say I could, there's a few things I could say. Like ways I could say, don't talk to me like that. It sounds like it makes me feel it makes me come across as weaker, right? Because why do I have to tell you, don't talk to me like that, right? Because now I'm trying to like, get you. It's almost like you've got me. You're. You're getting me to be on my guard, to be like, don't talk to me like that, you know? You understand what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's kind of comes across weaker. Or if I say you don't talk to me like that, again, it comes across as weaker because it feels like a threat and a threat feels like weak, right? But if I say we don't talk like that, we don't talk to each other like that, it actually sounds more authoritative because it's more leadership. It's more like, I'm the captain of the ship and this is not what we do on this ship. As opposed to you don't do that. You know what I mean? Like, it to me that sounds more, more strong, has more strength behind it than.

Nicole [00:06:05]: It's definitely a more leading phrase. Like, and just saying you don't talk to me like that does seem more like dictator. Like the, the type of situation that women are trying to avoid at all costs. Like, it doesn't give leader, it gives. You do what I say, which is what women are afraid of. And it doesn't really embody what we preach on here. You know what I mean? Like, I get that you're telling it from a male perspective and like to. Cause you don't want men to be walked all over and I get that. But it's like from a female perspective, like, if a man wants to be a leader, then he has to prove that by using the right way to express things like telling somebody, you don't talk to me that way or things like that. That just is very like all about yourself. Whereas, like, if you're leading, it's a team, like you're not leading yourself and another individual. Like you're leading our, our collective unit, if that makes sense. So it does need to be respectful and it should be coming from a place of teamwork. And how women respond should be the same way as well too. Like, she shouldn't be attacking the person that she's with her and when she has a problem, because I believe that both people should be checked. I think both people should be put in their place.

John [00:07:31]: It's a different.

Nicole [00:07:32]: That's what you say.

John [00:07:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:33]: But when it's done in a loving and respectful way, it's not putting somebody in Their place. It's holding them accountable.

John [00:07:41]: Yeah. And it looks different too. Right. And the other thing you could say. Right. Is you could say, I don't allow people to talk to me like that, or I'm not going to let you talk to me like that. Or if you talk to me like that, we're not going to be talking. Right. Those are still even more. Those are still more powerful than you don't talk to me like that. Because trying to control someone else's actions, again, that's where you're crossing their boundary. Right. If you're trying to tell someone what they need to do or not do, but if you're saying, hey, we don't do this, or. Right, I'm not going to allow this to happen. Right.

Nicole [00:08:22]: I mean, I think even saying, I'm not going to allow this to happen, I don't even think you need to say that. I think you could literally just say, I'm not going to continue this conversation until we can have a civil conversation. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Like, that's saying, I'm not going to continue this conversation. That's not even saying, like, I'm not going to allow this or whatever. That I'm not going to continue until we can talk to each other in a respectful way. And then that's also me saying we, because I also need to talk to you in a respectful way, even though I'm the one that's being respectful right now.

John [00:08:57]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:57]: That could change at any moment. So that's why I really like the we. Because it's not one person's problem. Like, it's deep down, it's both of your problems. Right. So this is a weird problem. It's always going to be a we problem. If there's any sort of problem in your relationship, it's a we problem because.

John [00:09:17]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:17]: You want to fix it so that you can have a better relationship.

John [00:09:22]: Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, there are times as a leader, you're gonna have to say how things need to be or what needs to happen or, you know.

Nicole [00:09:30]: Right. I'm not saying that, but I feel like you can say it in a respectful and kind way because it also does reflect on you if you don't.

John [00:09:36]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:38]: And it's. And especially if you're a leader and as a woman following a man's lead, it is scary thing to do to have your life in someone else's hands 100%. And like, even if you trust that person.

John [00:09:52]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:53]: If he talks to you in A way that isn't loving or feels very like dictatorship. It does cause fear inside of you, and I feel like it makes you more defensive and it pushes you further into the. Like, I need to protect myself because he's not protecting me.

John [00:10:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:10]: So that's why it is important if you're in a relationship where the man is leading 100%. Like, it is your responsibility as a man to do it in the right way. And I'm not saying that what you're saying is the wrong way, but I'm just saying that, like, words are important. Like, you don't have to get them 100%. Right. Obviously. Like, nobody does.

John [00:10:31]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:32]: But you should at least think about them because you are the leader. Like, you don't. You don't get to do whatever you want because you're the leader. Like, you're still being held accountable. And so. And even though, like, yeah, as the leader, it should mostly be yourself holding yourself accountable.

John [00:10:48]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:49]: That doesn't mean that if you are doing this in the wrong way, which I'm not saying that you're giving the wrong examples, but if it's done in a. Like, don't. You don't talk to me like that or like you're the one with the problem or whatever, like, that's the wrong way.

John [00:11:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:03]: And you also need to be held accountable, right?

John [00:11:07]: Well, yeah. And, yeah. And I guess the frame of reference I'm coming from, because I agree with you, is, is from a man's frame of reference, of understanding. Like, look, when you do things like this, right, you actually display a lack of power instead of being powerful. Right. Because being powerful is never looks like telling people what to do. You tell them what consequences will happen if they do these actions. You tell them what you're going to do. You tell them what we are going to do. You don't tell them what they can or cannot do. You can say, yeah, if you do that, this is what's going to happen.

Nicole [00:11:41]: Right.

John [00:11:41]: Or this is what we're going to do. Those are way more powerful because that assumes authority. It assumes that the person is going to listen and follow you. When you say you do this or you don't do this, you're assuming they're not. You're assuming that they can battle you, that there is a conflict, that there is a, an argument here, whereas the other ones are assuming, no, this is, this is how it is. Right. And so that's, that's just to give the other con. Because I think a lot of guys would be like, well, if she talks to me rude, I can say, don't talk to me like that. And yeah, you can. And you're probably in your rights to do that. I mean, you can make the argument to say that's, that's not even a really bad thing to say. To say, don't talk to me like that. Right, right. But you're doing it from a weaker position. Whereas you use more strategic words, you're going to come across as, as more powerful and you're. And, and more respectful at the same time, which is to use that.

Nicole [00:12:38]: So yeah, it's a delicate balance. And that's why I get your perspective of it. Because a lot of times it's either one way or the other. Right. It's either guys getting walked all over or now he's flipped it and now he's just being a bossy pants or whatever. You know what I mean? But I think for everybody, if you're coming from a place of love and when you're having a conflict with your partner, you will naturally be more respectful.

John [00:13:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:06]: Like if you remind yourself in that moment, this is my life partner. This is the person I'm going to grow old with. Like, even though I'm upset right now, I love this person more than I've ever loved anybody. Then a lot of times just taking that minute to like think about that will allow you to respond in a better way.

John [00:13:26]: And here's one that I give to guys as well. Right. Because that's that perspective I agree with 100%. Imagine you're the most. Not even that. You're just. Imagine the most powerful king in the world sitting on his throne. Okay. He's got ultimate power, ultimate money. Right. Complete, completely, 100% most powerful king that's, that's ever existed. Okay. And someone comes into his court right before him and they yell at him or something. Does he say, don't yell at me? He does not say that. Right. He might motion to a guard and they're being taken out to the gallows. Like something like. But he's not going to.

Nicole [00:14:12]: He's get his head chopped off just for that.

John [00:14:15]: Yeah, you. Yeah, absolutely. If you argue with the most. Yell at the most powerful king in the world, I would expect. I mean, yeah, but that's sidetracking it. But what I'm saying is that that's how you should act as a man in general. It's like, how would that. Would you argue with, with, with a. And I'm not, I'm not making the comparison that your Wife is a peasant, but a peasant that yelled at you. No, you wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. You would not act like you're not going to allow that to unsettle you. Being the most powerful in the world. Think about how that king would act right now.

Nicole [00:14:55]: He's not going to change his demeanor.

John [00:14:57]: He might have them dismissed. He might have some consequence for them or whatever, or he might educate them because they could use some education. But he's not going to be offended by it. He's not going to be riled up by. He's not going to angry and he's definitely not going to argue with them and say, don't you ever tell. Talk to me like that. That's the. You see what I'm saying? That's how you can understand what a weak position it is is because as men, if you put yourself in the mindset of what would the most powerful king in the world do? How would he act? You're going to act the right way.

Nicole [00:15:33]: That's a good person.

John [00:15:33]: Unless you're a wicked king. But.

Nicole [00:15:35]: Yeah, well. But either way, no wicked kings here.

John [00:15:37]: You're still gonna act in a powerful way.

Nicole [00:15:39]: Right?

John [00:15:40]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:40]: Well, I think it comes too from confidence. Like a lot of what you're talking about is confidence and confidence in who you are. And I think when you know you want to be a good person and you don't want to jeopardize that, even if other people are treating you poorly, you stand on that confidence and you respond based how you. The person that you want to be rather than how they're treating you. Right. And that's in confidence. And like, okay, I'm confident that I want to be the best version of myself. I'm confident in. I'm not going to allow other people, how they treat me to sway how I will react.

John [00:16:17]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:16:18]: And it's confidence, like deep down, because that's what the king has. Right. He has all this stuff. He's like, nobody can yell at me and make me feel any different. Like, I'm going to be who I am and I'm going to stand on that no matter what people say or do.

John [00:16:32]: Yeah. And probably he's never arguing ever with anyone because there's no need. Right?

Nicole [00:16:37]: Yeah.

John [00:16:37]: It's like he's going to say what he has to say. If they disagree with him, he's like.

Nicole [00:16:42]: The boundary is what it is.

John [00:16:44]: That's what it is. Yeah. So be a king.

Nicole [00:16:47]: Well, that's like a little. That's like a little extra episode there.

John [00:16:52]: You got a mini episode, but yeah. So the topic for today is. I think it's my topic, but you gave me a good name for it called how to go from Friendly to Flirty.

Nicole [00:17:05]: But you're gonna change it as a man.

John [00:17:07]: Well, I mean, potentially I've got a name for the episode itself when it goes on YouTube and whatnot. But for now, the topic is how men can take a date from Friendly to flirty.

Nicole [00:17:22]: Yeah.

John [00:17:23]: And the reason for this topic is because I'm not gonna name names. But I mean, it's been more than one guy. But there's definitely a guy that I'm coaching right now that went on seven dates with the girl and he has touched her shoulder and that's it. And he's not sure where he stands. He wants to ask her if she wants to be in a serious relationship with him, which I've obviously advised him not to do. Right. Because you should know. Just like, it's kind of the same thing where it's just amazes me when guys don't know if the girl that they're going to propose to is going to say yes.

Nicole [00:17:58]: It's like, see, that doesn't even really happen in my mind, but I know that it does. But I guess I'm just like, I've talked to guys. No, I'm not saying I. I know that it does, but there's a part of me that it's like you said, like, how do you not know, Right. What she's gonna say?

John [00:18:18]: And the same thing, but that this is kind of the smaller version of it is like. Because the question is, like, how do you not know if the girl is attracted to you? Right? And so in this episode, we're gonna make it so you're gonna know. You're gonna know. You're gonna know quickly. You're gonna know on the first date, probably, maybe the second date. But definitely he's confident. Yeah, that's it. Right. So where to begin on this?

Nicole [00:18:43]: I mean, I guess it's like, okay, because I would think, first date, that you should at least be introducing some amount of flirt.

John [00:18:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:52]: It doesn't have to be full blown. So how do you start that? On the first date or do you think it should be full blown? Because, like, I think you should at least go for a kiss. But you're probably gonna say, go for the home run if you can.

John [00:19:07]: But it depends. It depends on what your goal is. We've talked about this before, right? If you're looking to just score, then whatever.

Nicole [00:19:15]: Like, then this is a relationship podcast. So let's say, yeah, you're dating for something serious.

John [00:19:19]: Well, it also depends on what kind of guy that you are, because as I told the aforementioned guy that I was coaching, because he was like, I don't want to sleep with a lot of different girls. I only want to sleep with the girl that I'm. I'm in a relationship with. And I said, that's. That's great.

Nicole [00:19:34]: That's admirable.

John [00:19:35]: Yeah. I was like, there's nothing wrong with that at all, whether it's religious reason or whatever reason, but you got to try anyway. And he was like, what? And I was like, no.

Nicole [00:19:45]: Or just put the moves on where it seems like it.

John [00:19:48]: I was like, you could get her all the way up to your bedroom and she's ready to take our clothes off, and then you're like, oh, wow, it's. It's late. Or this is moving too fast, or, like, you don't have to go through with it, but. And again, you don't even have to take it to that level. I'm just being, you know, I'm just being ridiculous. Like, I like to be. To make an extreme point, which is that in her mind, you got to be going for it. Right. And that will lead into that. But that's what actually creates chemistry, in my opinion. But before we even get into that, I think the big question and the million dollar question that everybody came here for. Right. Is what is flirting? How does one flirt? This is.

Nicole [00:20:28]: Did we not do an episode on this already?

John [00:20:30]: It's such a difficult. I think I've boiled it down finally, but for so long, I get emails. How do you flirt? What is flirting? Can you make a video on exactly what it is and how to do it?

Nicole [00:20:42]: Because what's your definition? I'm gonna think of a definition since you've thought about this.

John [00:20:47]: Well, flirting, like, the definition or how to do. Okay, yeah. Let's start with the definition loosely. The definition of flirting, Right. Is playful sexuality.

Nicole [00:21:01]: Okay.

John [00:21:01]: That's it. Right. So there has to be a playful element, and there has to be a sexual element.

Nicole [00:21:08]: Good. Because I would say, like, joking, but I think it is more playful.

John [00:21:11]: Yeah. And you could almost add to that definition. There has to be some ambiguity as well. Right?

Nicole [00:21:18]: Right. Some mystery, like not laying all your cards out, like, I want to have sex with you. Like, that's not flirting. It has to be, like, even if that's, like, your meaning, like, what you want to say. The flirty version is not outright saying that, but finding a Clever. Like you said, playful way to infer that that also isn't very like direct. Like, so it keeps. The conversation can keep going. Like, and it's not like, now you've shell shocked somebody.

John [00:21:48]: It's like my classic dating for. For guys when I'm coaching them on what do you message on a dating app? The classic opener that any guy can use. Maybe not now since this podcast is seen by millions of people, but millions of people. I'm just. I'm just manifesting.

Nicole [00:22:06]: There you go. I love it.

John [00:22:08]: Is is you're cute, but you look like trouble.

Nicole [00:22:11]: Yeah, that one's way overdone because you used to put that in your other videos too.

John [00:22:15]: But it is flirt because the. You're cute. Right? As a sexual. Or you could say romantic but sexual. That's the same thing. But you look like trouble. Creates the ambiguity and it's playful. Right? So it's like. Because it's like. Well, what does he mean by that? If I look like trouble, does that mean that. That he's. He's not interested? Does it mean that he. Does that mean. Is that really sexual? Is it. You know, what does it mean? Right. So it creates ambiguity, which creates the.

Nicole [00:22:45]: Well, because it has to be funny. That. That's been like your go to line one. Because you didn't use it on me. And that's because you messaged me first. Sit on you in a weird way.

John [00:22:54]: You did. You did.

Nicole [00:22:55]: Your face.

John [00:22:56]: You did.

Nicole [00:22:56]: But your profile.

John [00:22:58]: Sushi did. You did. Oh, and it worked my mind. You just used my. Yes, yes.

Nicole [00:23:07]: But I used it in a different way. Girl game that I'll be writing a book.

John [00:23:10]: That is literally. You're cute, but you look like trouble.

Nicole [00:23:13]: I know.

John [00:23:14]: That is exact. Oh, my God.

Nicole [00:23:16]: Your face look looks nice, but your profile's douchey.

John [00:23:18]: That is. You're cute, but you look like trouble. That is exactly you. Damn.

Nicole [00:23:23]: And it was the truth. You look nice. Trapped by my own trap. Was. That's right. Maybe that's why you got here.

John [00:23:30]: That's like sitting out the mouse stepping on it.

Nicole [00:23:32]: When you were explaining it, I was like, that's basically.

John [00:23:36]: So you agree then you agree what flirting is because you did it. So. Yeah.

Nicole [00:23:39]: I have never been some like, I've never denied being a flirty person.

John [00:23:44]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:23:46]: So I get what you're saying and I think you've described it really well. And I think that's also why we get along is because we're both the same. Same. But.

John [00:23:54]: But it needs those three elements essentially, right? It's got to have sexuality. That's all. Right. It's. I still love it. I'm still attracted to you. Can just make that flirt, like, just do it like this next time. Just dribble it out for, like.

Nicole [00:24:09]: I'll just, like, pour it on myself.

John [00:24:11]: Yeah, just like, let it dribble out of your.

Nicole [00:24:13]: I don't think that would be flirty.

John [00:24:15]: That it could be, you know, I.

Nicole [00:24:17]: Don'T think if it's that off. Okay.

John [00:24:21]: All right.

Nicole [00:24:24]: Back to business.

John [00:24:26]: So it has to have those three elements. It has to have some sexuality or romance to it so that it. It seems like this is a comment that's like, I'm attracted to you. It has to be fun because it can't be, like, a little. Yeah. And it has to have some element of mystery in it so that it is ambiguous to some degree. So it's not an outright, oh, this person's definitely hitting on me. It has to be. I think they're hitting on me.

Nicole [00:24:51]: I mean, they might hate me or they might like me.

John [00:24:54]: Yeah. And so how does one flirt? How does a guy flirt? Two main things that I give guys, Right. Number one is teasing. So tease her, right? Figure out something. Because, for example, I was reading a boring text and it was like, where are you from? And I was like, don't ask the girl where she's from. Tell her, say, I bet you're from South Africa. Okay. Because.

Nicole [00:25:25]: Because why?

John [00:25:27]: Because that's. That's where you're going to get into the. The flirt part of it, right? Because. Oh, because you look like this or whatever. You know, now you can get into the something that. That's actually something about.

Nicole [00:25:38]: You should have said Australia.

John [00:25:41]: Because of something about down under.

Nicole [00:25:43]: Yeah.

John [00:25:47]: I don't know the. But down under has to be in there. So I guess. Yeah. Dribble some milk out of here.

Nicole [00:25:58]: These are from down under.

John [00:26:00]: But, yeah, so. So teasing. Teasing about something about her or, you.

Nicole [00:26:04]: Know, like you do with me being from the country.

John [00:26:07]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Right? It's like.

Nicole [00:26:09]: Yeah, yeah. Well, you can ask her where she's from, but then, like, you can make a joke out of it or like you said, just automatically, like, pick a random place and then make a joke out of it. Or like a. A flirty joke.

John [00:26:21]: Yeah, yeah. Because it's kind of like. Because if she says. Because normally if you. If you were to ask or you just say, okay, you're. You must be from Nigeria or whatever. So actually, that's. Now that's a bad joke. Because it's like, that's like, it's like they're the one where a guy's like, I must be from Nigeria or I'm half. Whatever. I don't know. That one is about the size of the. You know, so. But, so don't.

Nicole [00:26:49]: Yeah, don't, don't, don't.

John [00:26:50]: Don't tell a girl. Don't tell a girl that.

Nicole [00:26:53]: Make it a little. Go with the down under.

John [00:26:55]: Yeah, go with the down under. Go to Australia, you know, But. But she's going to ask why. Why? And that's where the flirty part is going to come in. Because now you're going to tease her about it, right? It's like, oh, well, because you've got those Irish eyes. Or, you know, it's like, you know, but because. Because you're. You're cute, but you, you know, your accent is. It's just whatever. It is like something that is. That is gonna create some kind of indication that you may have some kind of interest.

Nicole [00:27:23]: Right, right.

John [00:27:25]: But also has the ambiguity because you've kind of insulted her a little bit. That's what the tease is. A tease is something that is a little bit of an insult, but it's playful and it. It also has a compliment part to it as well. Right. So.

Nicole [00:27:40]: Well, I think, like, paying attention to detail is the part that makes people feel interested. Because if we've always told people too, especially with the dating apps, like, actually read somebody's profile and say something about something on there, because that shows somebody that you cared enough to read their profile thoroughly enough to reverberate something back to them. So if you're using a trait about them to make a flirty, playful, like, joke or compliment or whatever.

John [00:28:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:12]: Then they feel like you still care enough about them that you paid attention to that detail, but you're throwing the little playfulness in there with, you know, whatever punny little thing that you're gonna add on to that.

John [00:28:26]: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So you can, you know, but. But basically, like, teasing is. Is one kind of foolproof method for, for guys that are.

Nicole [00:28:34]: But don't go too far because that's the thing too, is like, don't be.

John [00:28:37]: Too.

Nicole [00:28:39]: Like, harsh with it, because that is, again, it's a fine line. Yeah. So you have to find the appropriate, you know, playfulness to it because you don't want to straight up insult her. Yeah, yeah, that's not gonna work.

John [00:28:55]: Yeah. She's got buck teeth. Don't be like, oh, you remind me. You remind me of bunch of funny you know what?

Nicole [00:29:03]: The curious. Yeah, that's not a good idea. Yeah, but some guys would do that. That's why I'm saying it.

John [00:29:08]: It's got to be a light. It's got to be playful. It's got to be something where.

Nicole [00:29:12]: Which I wouldn't pick on, especially with women. Their appearance, physical. Yeah, that's just.

John [00:29:17]: Unless it's like. Like, oh, you're. You're. You know, you have such cute little freckles or other things. Like. Like something that's like, you know. Yeah, but. But. But, yeah. So. So teasing is. Is kind of the. The best thing to. And so, like, putting this into practical application. Friendly guy on a date. Right. Instead of doing the small talk. Where are you from? What kind of family? Like, start guessing things about her that you can tease her about. Right? Oh, you look like, you know, you must. You must be into. I don't know. What is it?

Nicole [00:29:52]: You're looking at my boobs, and I thought that you were gonna guess my bra size, and I was gonna be like, don't.

John [00:29:57]: Yeah, that's not. Like, look at their fashion and be like, oh, you look like you're. You must be emo. You look kind of emo. Ish. You know, it's like, did you. Did you have. You have some social angst as a. As a. As a teenager?

Nicole [00:30:11]: And it's like, yes, I still have social angst.

John [00:30:14]: Right. Like something like that. Where. So on the date, you know, you're talking to the girl, or if you're texting her, she says something, tease her about it, Right.

Nicole [00:30:24]: Like in a playful way.

John [00:30:26]: And if she tries to make it serious and. Because women will try to kill romance. I'll tell you. Like, women are like romance. Oh, yeah. They try to kill it. They. They try to kill it.

Nicole [00:30:34]: The flirtiness.

John [00:30:34]: Oh, yeah, they. Because they. They don't know. They're trying to kill it, but they're trying to kill it because they'll ask the stupid questions like, where are you? What do you do for a living? Where are you from? What's your. Like, if she asks those kind of questions, you have to turn around and tease it. Because if she asks, just be like.

Nicole [00:30:51]: What is this, a job interview?

John [00:30:53]: Right, Exactly. Yeah. What is it now? You've teased her, right? It's like, you know, you're cute, but you ask a lot of serious questions. Ever have fun? Right?

Nicole [00:31:00]: It's like, girls, if you need help with the game, come hit me.

John [00:31:06]: Yeah. Yeah. Don't ask it. But. But women will do it. They'll kill the romance, it's like. Or if she asks, where do you work? Or what, what job do you do? Make something up that's fun. Be like, I, I'm actually, I work in the circus. I, I'm a line tamer, actually. So, you know.

Nicole [00:31:22]: For a little while.

John [00:31:23]: You might need to be tamed. Right? So again, you're, you're taking it and you're making it fun. And, and, and what you're doing as, as a man then is now it's interesting to the girl. Even though she's trying to kill the romance, she doesn't realize she is because she's asking those mending questions. Right? But it kind of goes back to what I was saying before that I said we'd get back to, which is that chemistry is created by the man. When women are like, oh, there was chemistry. They don't understand what's going on. I mean, really, no one understands what's, what's going on in that situation. But I'm gonna tell you what's going on, okay. Which is that the man knows how to flirt. That's what creates chemistry.

Nicole [00:32:08]: Because it could go either way. Like, if you go on a date as a flirty woman with a guy who doesn't flirt back, it's, it doesn't, it just fizzles out, like it's not there.

John [00:32:20]: Like you said, the chemistry is not some magical thing. It's something that you create. That's how it happens. And the man is responsible for doing that. Because if he knows how to flirt, it's going to be. Because in general, I think women feel more of the attraction when there's some mystery and interest and it's fun. Yeah, right. And that's what, that's why, like, guys kill the dates. Like, if you want to make a really friendly date, start asking her the interview questions and be super, super polite. Make sure you don't offend her at all. You know what I mean? Be a perfect gentleman. Now that's how you be super friendly. Go into the friend zone. But instead, what I'm saying is be a little bit edgy. That's why teasing, the flirting. Right? So the second flirt is role playing, right?

Nicole [00:33:08]: What? Okay, so I can't wait to hear this.

John [00:33:10]: So this is like, it's again. And there's lots of ways to flirt, but I'm just using some modalities that you can, you can switch into in order to make it easy for guys. Right. So we talked about teasing. That's. You can always tease. That's easy. You can Just make. Because you're like, oh, how do I flirt? Right? That's why I'm saying I'm giving something. So you can say, oh, I could tease. That's one. Number two is roleplay. So, for example, you could text a girl and say that you don't know and say, I'm breaking up with you. Right. Or, you know, whatever it is that, like, oh, gosh, it's been so long since we've seen each other. Right. Or whatever. Like, what's the situation that you want it to be? It's like, you know, some of it's contextual, but, like, there you are.

Nicole [00:33:59]: I finally found you the woman of my dreams.

John [00:34:01]: Right, Exactly. And then you can start to talk about, like, your life together or, you know, or whatever. Whatever it is.

Nicole [00:34:09]: Two kids or three.

John [00:34:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:12]: White picket fence.

John [00:34:13]: Right? So. Or. Or you make up some kind of. Oh, yeah, we're gonna go on a. On a. On a. On a lovely date to McDonald's.

Nicole [00:34:21]: Like, I hate that one. I hate that one.

John [00:34:26]: But it starts some kind of a role play. You see what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, maybe don't do the McDonald's. Like, I guess Shake Shack is the place to go. But. But. But you have to. You're creating a world that you're inviting her into, which is interesting. It's fun. It's not every guy that's on a date saying boring stuff about bragging about how much money he makes or what he's doing or what stupid music choices that he has or whatever. Now it's playful. It's fun you're not getting into. In fact, on the very first date, for the most part, most guys that are getting in the friend zone don't even talk about anything serious at all. The entire thing should just be funny, fun stuff that has nothing to do with your real life or real reality. That's.

Nicole [00:35:16]: But don't lie.

John [00:35:17]: No, no, don't lie.

Nicole [00:35:20]: Make fine line.

John [00:35:21]: Yeah, make up funny stuff. If. If a woman asks you what you do for work and you say, I work at the circus, I'm a line tamer. That's not lying. Because it's not. You're not trying to deceive. It's a joke.

Nicole [00:35:36]: Yeah, but I feel like if it feels totally unserious, you might not get a second date. Like, I get what you're saying, but it's like a. Like, you also don't want the whole thing to be just, I'm a lion tamer. What car do you drive? A camel. Like, I'd be like, I'm going to the bathroom. Goodbye. Like, that's not.

John [00:35:56]: I see the air of my way. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's like the thing where I'd.

Nicole [00:36:01]: Be like, look, I'm all for, like, some fun conversations, but this is, like, ridiculous.

John [00:36:07]: It's like the thing where you have the instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You have to give someone the instructions how to do it, and you don't tell them to flip the bread. And you know what? If you've seen. You've seen that video or something where the girl has her father makeup anyway. Yeah. That's not what I mean.

Nicole [00:36:24]: Well, we got to make sure that we. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John [00:36:30]: Don't get into serious conversations. Right. Be flirty and playful. Throw in a couple of those joking things, but keep it off of super serious for the most part. Right.

Nicole [00:36:45]: I think you could answer some serious questions, but don't make it like an interview, I think is a better way to put it. Like, if she just keeps hounding you with questions, talk about something else. Be like, oh, on your dating profile, I saw you went skiing. Like, where do you like to go skiing?

John [00:37:02]: Like, that's still fun.

Nicole [00:37:03]: It. Yeah. And it's still, like, telling the truth. Like, so I get what you're saying, but I also don't think you shouldn't answer any question. Like, I think you should answer a few serious questions.

John [00:37:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:37:15]: So that she does feel like she's knowing who you are and, like, because you can't just be funny the whole time, because then she feels like, I don't really know who you are.

John [00:37:23]: Right.

Nicole [00:37:24]: Or she might think that you're just gonna do that on the second date, and you might not get a second date.

John [00:37:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:37:29]: But like you said, just don't talk about the. The questions the whole time. Like, try to. Like, I just did. You'd be like, oh, I saw you went skiing. Do you like to ski? Like, where do you go? I went skiing and broke my leg one time because I French fried and when I should have pizza'd. You know, something like that. You can, like, turn it around like that. But, yeah, I know what you're saying, but you do have to spell it out.

John [00:37:53]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:37:53]: For them.

John [00:37:54]: Yeah, yeah. Keep it emotional and talk about your passions. Those type of things. Not the facts. It doesn't matter how many siblings you have. It doesn't matter where you grew up. Unless where you grew up had an emotional impact on you and you're telling that story, and that's Going to have an emotional impact on her. Right. That's what I'm saying is like, you've got something interesting, tell stories, do things like that as opposed to the serious. But, but yeah, the flirting has to be mixed in there. But yeah, definitely do not answer every question with it. And even, even I would say even if you're press, right? So she's like, okay, what do you do for work? Like, guess like you're in a nail. A nail technician. No, like, damn, I'm actually lying tamer now. Now you've lost the momentum. But, but if you say you're a lion tamer and then she says, no, really, what do you, what do you really do? Maybe if it's already fun, you could throw one more funny one out there or whatever. That seems like it could be serious. Like, I'm a stripper, but.

Nicole [00:39:01]: It could be serious.

John [00:39:04]: But sometimes that one will backfire on you. Yeah, she believes that you really are a stripper.

Nicole [00:39:08]: Also might not get a second date.

John [00:39:10]: Yeah. So. But then after that is. She's still like, no, no, really, like, what do you do? Seriously? Then, then you can tell her or you can. Or you can avoid the question and be like, I'll tell you when a little bit later. You gotta, first you gotta answer.

Nicole [00:39:26]: Gotta work up to that exact. Those are fine question.

John [00:39:29]: Yeah, Then, then it's fine. But yeah, you just can't keep on answering silly questions. Right? You get like one silly question answer per, you know, half hour. So. But that's the same with the, with the alcohol, you know, the drinks. One drink, one silly question.

Nicole [00:39:44]: All right. Yeah, okay. Better after you explained it.

John [00:39:47]: Yeah, but those are the two, like, easy things for a guy to do. To flirt is to tease or to do some kind of a role play.

Nicole [00:39:54]: Yeah, right.

John [00:39:55]: Because otherwise you get into, you know, but, but if you remember the rules of it, then you can, you can make up your own thing. But it has to. The biggest problem that, that guys have is that they, they don't come across sexual. Right. The friend. That's how they get these friendly dates in the friend zone. They're not creating the chemistry.

Nicole [00:40:13]: And I think that you don't even have to throw in sexual things in there. Like we were talking about the down under. You don't want to do that because the joking and kind of like picking fun at like little details almost creates that, like you said, the chemistry without having to outright say things like, oh, down under, you know, things like that. It's, it does create that kind of tension, which is really what it is, it's like tension. Not in like a. You're angry at each other.

John [00:40:44]: Sexual.

Nicole [00:40:45]: But like you said, like, does he like me? Like, he seems like he does, but then he's kind of picking on me. It's that tension, right, between, like, what's going on, right? That just sort of leads into the, like, sexual tension as well too. Because then you're like, does he want to go on another date with me? Like, what's gonna happen? Is he gonna try to kiss me later? Like, does he never wanna see me again? Like, who knows?

John [00:41:11]: That's sexual tension. Mystery creates sexual tension. Mystery and distance. And so. And that's what you're going for as a guy is to keep progressing. Cause that's what's gonna create the interest, which is gonna make her. It's gonna create the chemistry, right?

Nicole [00:41:27]: But you have to do it in the right way. Because again, I get what you're saying, and I know you know how to do it, but I'm thinking of these poor guys who don't know how to do it at all. And they're. They're messing it all up.

John [00:41:39]: And that's why, right? What these guys will do, what a lot of guys, nice guys, will do in is eventually they'll. They. They don't know where a woman stands. And then they'll just ask her, or they'll tell. They'll declare their feelings for her, right? They'll be like, I have to tell you something. I'm in love with you. You're so beautiful. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she's like, you're such a great guy. That will make someone so happy. I think we should be really good friends, you know? But. Because when you've done that, when you've told her where she stands with you, you've destroyed the mystery, so you've destroyed the attraction, right? She has to be guessing and she has to be like, oh, is he going to kiss me or not? But in order for her to guess that direction, you have to have the flirting so that she's like, well, he was acting kind of sexual, like he said something. This could be interpreted this way. So she feels like there's some kind of man to woman interaction, that it's a romantic interaction, not just a friend interaction, right? And then now she can be in that. Now you can create the sexual tension. But you got to start with something that is actually opening the door to that. And it has to be at the beginning, right? Because there's nothing worse than five dates in and now all of a sudden he's acting like completely different, you know, and now he's being very flirtatious. Like, you've already. You've said you. You're gonna set the tone very early is what I'm saying. So what else?

Nicole [00:43:15]: He's got notes today.

John [00:43:16]: I do have some. Okay. So, I mean, there's so many pieces to this, of turning this around. But. But we talked about. Yeah, man makes. Makes the chemistry. And that's because he knows how to. How to flirt, how to seduce.

Nicole [00:43:34]: Not to take away. For. I'm not gonna go down this. But I do think women should learn some of this as well too.

John [00:43:40]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:40]: Because it's beneficial, obviously.

John [00:43:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:43]: But not to take. I do think it is more on the guy. Because if the guy's gonna lead the relationship, if he wants to have a relationship like we talk about.

John [00:43:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:54]: Then he needs to know this stuff. And he should be leading with the flirting from the beginning as well, too.

John [00:43:59]: And women are responders. That's. That's why it's. It's really up to men. Yeah. A woman can learn these things, but in general, women, even if she does initiate some of these things, she's still going to be a responder.

Nicole [00:44:10]: Right. So she still has to have it from the man as well too, because she can't hold it with her girl game the whole time.

John [00:44:17]: And it's more natural for women to be flirtatious or to understand how to flirt. That's true. And how to, like, if they like a guy. If a woman is on a date with a guy that she likes, most women will indicate that to the guy. Somehow will. Will be flirtatious with the guy.

Nicole [00:44:32]: Right.

John [00:44:32]: Whereas if a guy is on a date with the girl that he likes, a lot of guys would just freeze up and be super nice, super gentleman, super. Don't offend her. Super. Don't in any way come across sexual. Because that would be wrong. And you know, and she's a nice girl. And I don't want to do that. I don't want to come across that way. That's what a lot of guys do. So.

Nicole [00:44:54]: Which you can respect her. Like, don't do vulgar jokes. That's respecting her.

John [00:44:58]: That's a good time to talk about are forgiven. Right.

Nicole [00:45:04]: So because they're vulgar.

John [00:45:06]: Well, no, no, no. It's. It's like this. Look, as a guy, right. And I'm not saying to be an asshole, Right. I'm just. This is a disclaimer. Okay, but. And the reason why I'm Saying this too is because of this topic, right? Because when I'm talking to guys that I'm talking about this about, they're guys that are too nice. They're nice guys, okay? They're, they're pathetic in, in some ways, right, because they're like, they're, they're not, they're not assholes at all, right? So what I tell these guys is this. Look, assholes are forgiven, but nice guys aren't. So what I mean by that is if you're an asshole to a woman, okay, you can apologize, you can say, whoa, sorry, I shouldn't have said that. That was wrong of me. I, you know, whatever. And you can come back. It doesn't mean you're gonna come back, but you can, it's possible to come back. From asshole zone to being in good graces again. Once you go into nice guy zone, you're there forever. Once you're in friend zone, you're not coming back from that. Once she sees you as not a sexual option, she sees you as a nice guy or friendly or pushover, you're not coming back. There's no way to come back from that. Hardly. I mean, maybe there's been one guy that's escaped one time in history, but it's not going to be you. So what I tell them is it's better to err on the side of asshole. Which, again, not to be misinterpreted, it doesn't mean be an asshole, don't be an asshole. But if you tell a nice guy to err on the side of being an asshole, he's already over here. Guess what's going to happen? He's going to get over here. He's not even in neutral tone. He's still the nice guy territory. But. But what I'm saying is that they're worried in their mind that they're going to offend a woman and piss her off and she's not going to like him, but it's more likely she's not going to like you because you're too docile. And so instead, be a little more selfish. Say what you think, a little bit more joke, a little bit more tease her. And if you go too far, she will definitely let you know. And you can back up and you can be like, oh, sorry, I. I didn't mean to offend.

Nicole [00:47:12]: You shouldn't be worried about being an in the sense that you're saying, because assholes don't apologize, right? So if you're coming across like an, like you say something that Offends her.

John [00:47:24]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:47:24]: And you apologize, you will get forgiven, like you said. Because wouldn't apologize, they wouldn't even feel bad about what they said, right? Like they'd be like, get over it or something. So yeah, if you say something and you apologize, you're like you said, are in better graces than going the opposite way.

John [00:47:43]: And we've got that quadrant, right, we talked about before that I made for my, my video of, you know, nice guy, asshole, gentleman and narcissist, right? And it's caring about what people think versus caring about people. And if you don't care what people think and you don't care about people, then you're an.

Nicole [00:48:02]: Right.

John [00:48:02]: If you don't care what people or if you, if you care what people think, but you don't care about people, you're a narcissist, right? If you don't care what people think.

Nicole [00:48:16]: And you care about people, you're a gentleman.

John [00:48:19]: Yeah, I was saving that one for last, but.

Nicole [00:48:20]: Oh, sorry.

John [00:48:20]: So that's okay. But, but yeah, that's true. If you don't care what people think and you care about people. And then the last one was a nice guy. If you care about people and you care about what they think, you're a nice guy. And so what we're really doing is we're moving you from nice guy to gentleman because in your mind, guys that are nice guys, you think that it's just caring about people and you think the assholes don't care about people and nice guys do. And so I don't want to be a person that doesn't care about people. But what I'm saying is there's this other thing you're not seeing which is caring about what people think, which is different, right? And so when I'm saying be a little more selfish, when I'm saying flirt with her, teaser a little bit, you do care about her. You care about people, but you don't care what she thinks now. You don't care if she likes you or not. You're going to be yourself, your actual self, not yourself that women often tell you to be, but the real self that doesn't care what other people think about it. And that's attractive.

Nicole [00:49:23]: Care about people as in you're not gonna like be intentionally disrespectful. You care about, you know, like her physical well being and things like that. Like you're not gonna outright do things that would hurt her, right? And that's the caring about her, but the not caring about what she thinks would be speaking your truth and saying how you actually feel or, you know, being a little flirty or throwing some things in there that might make someone get a little butt hurt. But. And seeing how she feels. And if she gets offended, you apologize because you, you don't want to hurt her.

John [00:49:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:49:59]: And you're not intentionally trying to hurt her with the things that you're saying, and that's what makes you a gentleman. And, you know, apologizing, like I said, don't apologize because they don't care about people. They don't care that hurt her feelings. But you do so, you know, have the confidence in that and the confidence in who you are. Like, you said, like, don't be afraid to say things about how you feel.

John [00:50:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:50:23]: Obviously, still try to say them in a way that's not super offensive, because if you don't, then you are coming off more of an, you know, but you can always apologize if someone gets offended by something.

John [00:50:35]: Exactly. And then if it. If it's appropriate, because it's like, again, that's, that's why I say, like, err on the side of being an asshole, because assholes are forgiven. That's why I was gonna say, this is a good title for the podcast is Assholes are Forgiven, now that you understand the context of it. But, but, for example, let's say that you're on a date with a girl. She's late for the date. You might be like, oh, well, if I call that out, I'll be an or. What you're really afraid of is that she's not going to like you because you're going to say something that is going to offend her, and you don't.

Nicole [00:51:02]: Want to mess up the opportunity, but.

John [00:51:04]: You can do it in the right way. You can say, hey, you know, I, I didn't. I don't really appreciate that you're late. You know, that I, I was here on time. It's, you know, I, I don't feel like that's very respectful of my time. Okay. It's not being an. But a lot of nice guys would think that's being an. Right.

Nicole [00:51:22]: I think the better way you start the conversation, if she says something, then you make a flirty joke about, well, at least I wasn't late.

John [00:51:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:30]: Or something like that. Well, just because that's serious. Like, to start the thing off really serious and then try to go to flirty would be hard. So I think if you want to make your point, like, you can start the conversation, but then based on, like, something that she says, be like, well, I wasn't the one that was late because that proves that, like, yeah, you know, you're calling her out, but you're still doing it in this light way.

John [00:51:56]: But you shouldn't be afraid to do it. That's why I gave the very plain example. I mean, the, the classic one that I always give guys is to be like, oh, wow, five minutes late. You know, that means, right, you owe me a drink. You got to buy the first, first drink. Right. So that's fun, it's playful. It does also say, hey, don't let this happen again. Like, I did notice this, right. And I'm not afraid to say it. So. But, but again, that's a little bit more advanced because if you're a really nice guy, I don't think you're going to be pulling that off. You know, I mean, maybe, hey, give it a shot, but it'd be better to just be honest and direct or like you said, you know, do it in a, in a, in a playful, flirty way that you can practice it. But, but right, but the point is that nice, nice guys are never forgiven. So once you have put yourself into the friend zone with a woman and she doesn't see you as sexual, she sees you as a pushover or as a nice guy or people pleaser, you're not coming back from that. So it would be. So if you're afraid of losing her, and that's why you're acting so nice and gentlemanly, don't. Because that's how you're going to lose her. That's how. Not only is it how you're going to lose her, that's how you're going to. These guys are going to get in situations where they're going to go on seven dates and feel like the girl's stringing them along. Because girls unfortunately get pegged with stringing guys along when it's not justified. Right. Because a lot, I'm not saying that girls never string a guy along, but a lot of guys think a girl stringing them along when it's like they just haven't made any kind of sexual advance on her. Have, have made it clear what their intentions are with her. And so she's just being friendly with him because what is she going to do? Not be friendly, be like, you know, so you as a man have to, have to, have to take the responsibility of actually bringing things forward, otherwise you're not going to know.

Nicole [00:53:42]: Yeah, I mean, I agree with what you're saying. I also think that when you're too much of a nice guy, you don't come off as genuine. And obviously if you're joking the whole date too, like we were talking about, that's why I want you to clarify, you're not coming off as genuine. But the thing is that people who just agree with everything or like don't have any sort of controversial anything like we're all like that as human beings, right? So if you're just saying what she wants to hear so she'll like you, she's going to pick up on that. Cuz she's going to be like, there's no way, like this guy's hiding something or, you know, he can't even tell me how he actually feels about this, so how is he going to like be honest with me? Like even if you're doing it in a nice way, so throwing in things like that or like saying how you feel if she shows up late or something like that, or even if she says something that offends you or something, saying that or joking, you know, adding that stuff in there comes off more genuine, right. Than just people pleasing. And I think guys also get that mixed up too, right? Because they're like, oh well, if I don't step on any toes, if I, you do everything right and you know, just don't cause any waves, then she'll, she'll like me more. But it's like what we're trying to tell you in this whole episode is actually going to get you the most results and make you come off the most genuine. And also allow yourself to be more confident in yourself and just not stress you out as much of having to worry about what people think about you.

John [00:55:21]: Right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Which brings us to the next piece of it to add the. Is that you got to go for the kiss or the clothes or however you want it, but you got to make the moves, right? And so I gotta. There's a couple of tips on this, right? So one of them I give is the hand, the hand trick, the hand holding trick or whatever, you know, if you want to hold her hand or, or whatever touch your hand, which is you literally just. And, and this stuff has to happen early on, right? So before we even get to the hand holding thing, when you meet her on a date, right, Go and go for a hug at least, you know, get physical contact from the very, very beginning. Go in for the hug, right? And just think in your mind that you have to create physical contact, right? So, so what's creepy is if you're like. Or like the slow. What's not creepy is everyone's got one of those friends that you go up to them and they slap you on back and they're like, hey buddy, what you doing man? And they punch you in the arm or whatever. I'm not saying do that, but, but that guy never comes across as it's you. His physical contact is. Is not seen as weird at all. Because that's.

Nicole [00:56:35]: Because he just goes for it, right? Yeah.

John [00:56:37]: And so just go for it. So if you're gonna put your hand on her knee, just put your hand on her knee. Right. But disguise it a little bit. Just be like, oh, she says something funny. Haha. Laugh. And you know, don't slap her knee hard, but you know, like slap her knee or, or you know, give her a little playful punch in the shoulder, little play, you know. Right. But something like that.

Nicole [00:56:58]: Maybe not a punch in the shoulder.

John [00:57:00]: I mean it's a little, you know, like nudge or whatever. You know, tap around the shoulder or whatever. You know, those type of things where you're creating the physical contact. But the one I was going to get to was the hand, right? So very simple way to initiate the physical contact is just to say, hey, let me see your hand. Right. In fact, here. Hey, let me see your hand. Oh, wow. Like, it looks a little far away, but like, let me see. And then, and then do this. Compare like, oh, you have, you have such tiny hands.

Nicole [00:57:33]: Ew.

John [00:57:33]: There you go.

Nicole [00:57:34]: I'm just kidding. He's touching me.

John [00:57:38]: Be like. Or yeah, do the ew.

Nicole [00:57:42]: Ew.

John [00:57:42]: Oh yeah, I just. Oh shoot. When I went to the restroom, I got a little.

Nicole [00:57:47]: She's not gonna say ew.

John [00:57:49]: But if she does do the, you know, there you go. Now she just thinks she got pee on her hand.

Nicole [00:57:54]: Great.

John [00:57:54]: She gets for saying ew. But, but, but yeah, but it's, it's as simple as that, right? Like if you ask a girl, let me see your hand, she's not gonna say no. If she went on a date with you. If she says no, then I maybe just end the date. But no, but she's not.

Nicole [00:58:08]: But what if she has bigger hands than you?

John [00:58:11]: Then you then just use that. Be like, oh my gosh, you. You're bigfoot in us. Wow. You, you should do the shot putter. I don't know, like try to play it off. Like, I mean, it'll be a little. It'll probably freak you out, but try to pretend like it's sexy or something. I don't know.

Nicole [00:58:32]: Wow.

John [00:58:33]: But you get. You get the hand. You could do whatever. You could look at her ring and be like, oh, wow, where'd you get that ring? Now you're touching her.

Nicole [00:58:40]: My husband.

John [00:58:40]: Right? Or. Or, you know, our. Yeah. Like, oh, wow. See, he's. He must be a lucky guy. I'd like to be that guy. But yeah.

Nicole [00:58:52]: So this is not good with two people who know how to, like, do the witty banter back and forth. But it's a good example.

John [00:59:01]: Or our classic tick tock with 10 million views or whatever. 16 million views.

Nicole [00:59:05]: How to kiss a girl.

John [00:59:06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:59:07]: Go watch that.

John [00:59:08]: You just, you know.

Nicole [00:59:10]: Oh, I was like, trace her ear with your finger.

John [00:59:13]: Brush her hair out of her face. Pull her hair behind her ear, which gets you close to be able to.

Nicole [00:59:20]: Watch whisper the whisper song by Ying Ying Twins in her ear. Like, hey, little mama, let me whisper in here.

John [00:59:29]: Yeah. Especially after the. I. I wrote here on a camel. And then. And then it's good. Then she'll definitely need to go to the restroom, and she'll definitely crawl out the window. So. But. Yeah, but. But you got to go for at least the kiss. And, you know, because again, sit next.

Nicole [00:59:47]: To her like we did. Also did a short clip, I think, for your channel on that. Like, try to scoot next to her so then it's not awkward like we just did, you know, like reaching across the table for her hand if you're sitting closer to her.

John [01:00:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:00]: It's easier to do all these things. And I know that you've also done before, like, the lean over, like, look at my phone.

John [01:00:05]: Yeah, you're looking at something on her phone or your phone sharing it. And then it's a perfect. You know, it's hard to demonstrate here, but you can, like, put your arm around her while you're looking at the thing, or you point out to her. You know what I mean? Or you grab her hand or whatever. You know, it gives you an excuse to be able to do that where it feels natural, not creepy. Where it's like, oh, I think he's gonna try and touch me. Or like. Or like you just accidentally brush against. Just be intentional with it. Or if you just can't handle any of that, Jin, just be like, can I hold your hand? Like, that's better than being creepy. I mean, that's not the best.

Nicole [01:00:41]: But I'm just being close enough to her because really, that makes it a lot easier because I was even thinking about, you know, because I understand as a woman how hard it must be to make A lot of this feel seem natural, like initiating touching her. But I. That's why I do think being closer to her is going to be the easier thing, because I was like, okay, well, how at the end of the night do you get the kiss? Like, like, you talk close together. Like you're, you're, you're pretty close face to face, and you're having conversation and then maybe, like, look at her lips and stuff and like, kind of slow things down and then go for it. Like, that'll make it easier than just being like, okay, bye. Like, like trying to, like, you know, just get it over with. Like, be close to her in proximity.

John [01:01:30]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:31]: You know, stare at her face. Like, look at her lips. You know, slow things down. Be like, okay, well, I really don't want to go just yet or something, you know, like, yeah, slow. And then go for it.

John [01:01:43]: And don't wait till the end because that's where it's more likely to be. The good, Good night. Peck on the cheek. How. How long into our date did I kiss you? Our first date?

Nicole [01:01:53]: I can't remember. It was a few hours. Because we talked for like, it was like hours.

John [01:01:56]: It was like a half hour.

Nicole [01:01:58]: No.

John [01:01:58]: Yeah, I could, I could guarantee it.

Nicole [01:01:59]: We were there for like.

John [01:02:01]: Yeah, we're there for a long. But the kiss happened at least within the first hour for sure. Right.

Nicole [01:02:05]: I also had espresso martinis.

John [01:02:08]: Yeah, but, but my point is that I went for it, right?

Nicole [01:02:12]: No, you did.

John [01:02:13]: Like, because that, like, because that sets the tone for the rest of the date. Right. And especially if you have any plans on, you know, on the, you know, I'll take it to the next level. You gotta. You got to do the kiss. The kiss is expected at the end, and then it's like an awkward thing and it's like, oh, I don't know, do I like him? Or like, let's just do the peck on the cheek just because I'm not sure. Right. So if you already have done the kiss earlier in the date at the restaurant, walking to the restaurant, walking to the park after the restaurant, something like that, then everything is going to be much smoother afterwards and there's more likely to be a second date because you create the spark. Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:51]: Well, then how do you interject it, though, in the middle of it?

John [01:02:54]: How did I do it?

Nicole [01:02:56]: I don't know.

John [01:02:56]: I was showing you something, or you're showing me something on your phone or whatever. And then I probably brush your hair out of your ear and had my arm around you, and then and then. And then we're talking about something, and I turn to you because now your face is right here. And now it's like, oh. Oh, you want to kiss me. Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:13]: But what if you're eating? So you have to wait till after you eat.

John [01:03:17]: Yeah. If you're. Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:18]: Hey, can you get this out of my mouth?

John [01:03:21]: We did. We did an episode on Date on first, and we said, don't just go to a restaurant. Don't, like, have more than one thing planned. So you're walking. Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:30]: Don't do it in the restaurant. Probably because that's going to be harder.

John [01:03:33]: When you're going around the lake behind the boathouse. You know, just show her your dark secret. That's it. So. But. But that's. You gotta do something else, you know, in more than one activity.

Nicole [01:03:44]: Then it's like, you already. You already did it. So you could do it again however many times that you guys want. And it's. If you are going for a home run at the end of the evening, you're more likely to get there.

John [01:03:56]: Yeah. Yeah. And what was one other thing about the. Oh. And you don't know how many times I've been swerved. Which is fine. It's okay. Look, you know how many times.

Nicole [01:04:04]: Maybe you should talk about that, because I don't think people realize.

John [01:04:06]: You don't know how many times I've been swerved and then tried again. And then I. I think, what's the.

Nicole [01:04:12]: Most you've ever been swerved?

John [01:04:14]: Like, in 1. 1. 1. And then. And then it happens. Because. Because, okay, when a girl swerves you most, not like, okay, you got to read the room a little bit. Right? But if you're flirting and things are going good and, like, you put your hand on her knee and she's not like, ew, Right. Whatever. Like, if that's all happening and then you go for the kiss and she swerves you, she's gonna think, this guy has balls. She. She's more attracted to you by the act of swerving you than the other.

Nicole [01:04:44]: I think if she swerves you more than twice, though, you should probably.

John [01:04:47]: Then you got. L. Yeah. The swerve is a yellow light. It's like, okay, try again later. Right. It's not a complete stop. If you try to kiss her and she's like, what's. Whoa, hey. Like that. Why'd you do that? That's a red light. Then you don't try again. You're like, okay, yeah, sorry, I had you confused with someone else. I need to go home and check.

Nicole [01:05:07]: My confused with someone else.

John [01:05:10]: Yeah. Then just go home and just, you know, like, whatever. But if you get swerved, who cares? Big deal. Like, ah, okay, just laugh at it, don't ignore it and don't make a big deal out of it and don't ask her why. Or do you not like me or any of that stupid stuff. Just, it happens a million times. You've, you've had it happen to you a million times. You don't care. It's a big deal. Not a big deal. You can try again later and then you try again later. And then, I mean 99% of the time when you try again later, if everything was going good before then, it's.

Nicole [01:05:41]: Going to be a success, not a red light.

John [01:05:43]: Yeah. So. But you got to have the balls to do this, right? It's like that. And that's why I really like the assholes are forgiven. Because that's what. As a, as a nice guy who's constantly being friend zoned or constantly feeling like women aren't attracted to you or they're just playing with you and stuff, you gotta, you gotta remember that so that you take chances. You stop trying to play. When you play it safe, you lose. The nice guys play it safe. That's why they lose.

Nicole [01:06:12]: Right?

John [01:06:12]: Right. You can't play it safe. You gotta be more like the guy in the rated R movie. Like, it's okay. It doesn't mean being an asshole. You're not gonna, you know, first of all, even, you're not even gonna change your entire personality and suddenly become an asshole just because you're trying to. That's not gonna, it's not even gonna work right. So do the things that to you seem more uncomfortable but are risky and take the risk. Because if you take a risk and you fail, just like the swerve, you can come back, you get a second at bat, right? But if you don't take the risk at all, you're going to sit the bench for the rest of the, of the season. They're going to put you up to bat again. They're like, this guy doesn't even swing the bat when he, when he gets up. So we're just going to, you know, Little League. Like you remember your little League where they just bench you the whole time. And your dad called the coach and said it's not fair, you know, little giant needs to play. Right? That you know, but it's because you didn't swing when the, you know, at least take a swing. Even if you Strike out. You're taking a swing. They're going to put you back in the game. You know what I'm saying? That's there. There's my analogy for my story.

Nicole [01:07:11]: That's a good, good way to end it.

John [01:07:12]: Yeah, Little League was hard for me, so.

Nicole [01:07:16]: All right, well, do we have a thing for this week? I don't think so.

John [01:07:21]: Just being sick.

Nicole [01:07:23]: Yeah.

John [01:07:23]: Yeah, but, no.

Nicole [01:07:25]: Which has been hard. Yeah, but, yeah. Wait, I can't think of any other kn. We don't want to jinx ourselves. We're over jinxing ourselves.

John [01:07:36]: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm done with the jinxing.

Nicole [01:07:39]: That's like, yeah, jinx is in the.

John [01:07:42]: Right direction, but you will be jinxed if you don't subscribe, if you don't leave a review on itunes. Banana Finger is still. We're just gonna talk about it. That. That whoever led that left that knew.

Nicole [01:07:56]: What they were doing.

John [01:07:56]: They're legendary now. You know what I'm saying? It's like, someday when this podcast blows up and. And, you know, and we have Joe Rogan on here instead of us being on here, then the banana figure guy is going to be famous. He's going to be like the Hawk to a girl that's like, oh, you're the banana finger guy. So that could have been your legacy, but, you know, you didn't leave a review. So that's it. But leave one. Email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com if you want to be on the show, if you're going to be in San Diego, or, hey, if you want a question, you've got a question for us. If you want some coaching, we put an Instagram story out. Everyone's like, hey, vote. Would you like to be coached? Some relationship coaching. A lot of you guys said yes. I sent you a DM and got. And you ghosted me. Like, what? Why would you ghost me? Like, at least be like, yeah, I want coaching, but not from you.

Nicole [01:08:48]: At least talk to Chess.

John [01:08:50]: Be like, yeah, you're not. I thought you meant, like, you're gonna have a professor, an actual therapist, or someone who actually knows about relationships, and that would get coaching for them. I don't really want it from you. That would have been fine. Like, at least give me a. You know, give me the respect. That's. Yeah, I can. I can handle that. I'm a big boy. I can.

Nicole [01:09:04]: I mean, they do, but they are busy.

John [01:09:08]: Maybe, maybe, but. So, yeah, but if you want it, you know, we got it. We got it. We got you covered.

Nicole [01:09:14]: We got it.

John [01:09:14]: We got coaching.

Nicole [01:09:15]: As you can tell, we've game. That's definitely what we got over here.

John [01:09:19]: All right. Go out and pick up some chicks. Yeah.

Nicole [01:09:24]: Bros. Yeah.

John [01:09:26]: Yeah. And kiss them.

Nicole [01:09:27]: Kiss them. We'll see you next time. Jinx.

John [01:09:31]: Jinx. Through every fault we find our way.