Nicole [00:00:00]: You got lock in back into your relationship. Build it on something that is unshakable. That doesn't change that even if your feelings are all over the place because you're going through something, that you're still going to be there for your partner and your family because it's built on more than just how you feel in the moment. It's built on you guys connecting on such a deep level that you know that even if you're feeling off, your partner's got your back, they're going to help you or they'll pick up the load until you're feeling better.

John [00:00:27]: Beyond the perfect we discover through our flow us we complete each other Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:00:51]: I thought you were going to pick a random word to, like.

John [00:00:54]: I kind of did emphasize two.

Nicole [00:00:56]: I know. I was like, is he going to pick a random one?

John [00:00:59]: Two is like the expected one, not three.

Nicole [00:01:01]: Yeah, we're not a throuple.

John [00:01:05]: I could be like, next time I'll be like, we're two imperfect people.

Nicole [00:01:10]: Yeah, imperfect.

John [00:01:14]: But today we're talking about arranged marriage or is arranged marriages a good thing? Yeah, and it came about because you. You overheard me talking to a coaching client.

Nicole [00:01:24]: Well, we kind of also talked about this, you know, from time to time on our own, and it was on one of our, like, lists that we had made a while back. And I mean, it's interesting because, like, I like the way that you explain it, and I like that it honors the commitment that marriage is and shows how much that you can make something work. Like, more than you think. Because I think a lot of people, again, think, like, oh, we're just not compatible or whatever. Like, like, they made a wrong choice.

John [00:01:55]: Right.

Nicole [00:01:55]: But these people don't even have a choice a lot of the times. A lot of arranged marriages, they're not even picking who they want to be with. Their family is. So it kind of, like, debunks some of that in a way, or I should say unlimited. It shows that you can work through a lot more than you think you can in your relationships.

John [00:02:17]: Well, in the context of actually where it came up in the coaching question is really good, actually, because they were asking me about. He was asking me about, like, you know, basically about preparing for potential divorce and, like, contingency plans and. And, like, is it. Is it even worth it to get married? Right. And. And What I was talking about was like the benefit of marriage, of having a deeper. Like having that deep level of intimacy and how the benefit is that it is going to cause you to grow as a person, right? The things that. And having that commitment makes you stick in that thing. And it kind of came out where we got onto the arranged marriage thing. What I was talking about was that he was saying, I can't remember exactly, but basically it was like I was telling him how, you know, you can have someone that you're attracted to and infatuated with, and it's more likely that that won't work out than an arranged marriage. Right. Why is arranged marriage have a higher chance of success? And it's because when the basis of the relationship is this infatuation, this feeling of love and sexual attraction or physical attraction, then if that fades, there's really nothing left. And also, you're not really maybe seeking the depth of the level of intimacy that you're loving someone unconditionally. You're not seeking out the right thing in that relationship and marriage. And you're more likely because you chose to unchoose, right? Whereas an arranged marriage, a lot of times those are more successful. But it doesn't mean also in an arranged marriage that you're doing things right. Like you might stay together and be kind of like roommates because that's culturally acceptable, or you've learned to adapt to each other, but you still haven't gone to that level of depth. But I would say that you're more likely to go to that level of depth with an arranged marriage because you're there. Obviously there's like a cultural reason why you're there, to raise a family and things. But also, if you understand the deeper spiritual concept of marriage, you're there to build that depth, to take a almost random person and fall in love with them, build the love, build intimacy. Because the reality is that has to be built. It's not something that you just have. And I think that's really the key thing is that you know when you have the choice. And I'm not saying that arranged marriage is necessarily the best thing. I'm just saying that it's a good example of when you have that choice, then you're basing that marriage on whether or not you feel like you're compatible with this person or you're attracted to that person. And so that's not a very strong foundation. The stronger foundation is being like, I obviously, even if you're like, I want to be attracted to someone that's fine. But to be like, I want to build the level of depth and intimacy that I cannot build on my own. And I can't build with a more shallow relationship. Because the guy I was coaching also, he was talking about, well, why? I mean, I can date a woman. I can even have a kid with her. I don't necessarily need to be married. And I'm like, no, no. Making that level of commitment, it's valuable because it's an investment where you're like, I am putting myself 100% into this thing. And that's what's required in order to reach that level of depth. And you don't have to reach that level of depth, but it's an amazing experience to reach that. And a peak experience in life and something that cannot be duplicated, like, there's no other love that you can have, even having children or whatever, that is going to be the same as becoming one with another person and having that level of emotional and depth of connection which cannot just exist. It has to be built and created. And so that's why the whole arranged marriage thing came up. I'm like, most people would probably be better in an arranged marriage understanding what I said, because that's going to eliminate the other possibility of I'm in this for the wrong reason.

Nicole [00:06:42]: We could just end the episode there. No, that was really beautifully put together, and it's so true. Like, it. And to, like, makes me think about the episode we just did and proves our point that, like, that superficial, like, shallow experience is so fragile. Like when you explained how when you know, you get to choose in your relationship is the foundation is attraction and, like, a feeling things that can fade or come back or, like, flow fluctuate, right? Then your house feels like it's gonna fall down. Sometimes it does fall down. Then you have to build it back up, and then it falls down again. If your foundation is built on that.

John [00:07:27]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:28]: If your foundation is built on something deeper than that that is unbreakable.

John [00:07:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:34]: Then you don't feel that way. You don't feel, you know, that the house is crumbling, and then, oh, we got to build it back up. The house is always there. No matter if a hurricane comes, a tornado comes or whatever. Like, the house stands still because you have that foundation that is so strong.

John [00:07:50]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:51]: That it can withstand anything. Because, again, like, looks are going to fade. Like, we're all going to become not as attractive as we once were.

John [00:08:01]: Right.

Nicole [00:08:01]: Or something could happen that, like, completely changes your partner's life and your life.

John [00:08:07]: Right? Exactly.

Nicole [00:08:08]: And Are you just going to leave? Because they're not able to do the things that, that they were able to do before. Like, that's not how it should be, right? You know what I mean? Not when you're making a commitment like marriage. And it shouldn't be scary. I know that men are scared, right? But it's so important for men to hear what you just said as another man that like, you're not even scratching the surface of like, love and intimacy and like connectiveness that you could be at, right? If you're playing it safe, if you're like waiting on the shore and you don't want to get out there and like ride the wave of life, you know what I mean? You don't even know what it feels like to be connected to somebody because you're so afraid of what you might lose and making the wrong decision, which I get. I am not saying that getting married should not be a decision that you take seriously, but like you said, with arranged marriage, they don't even have a choice. But they know that marriage is serious, right? So they're going to make it work. They're going to build what they need to build. They're going to build that strong foundation. And that's the thing is like a lot of men today, they're like, I don't want to build, right? I'll just stand on the shore here. I don't want to build. You know, I'm okay with like a straw hut, right? But they've never even been in a sturdy ass brick house, right? And been like, oh, I'm actually really the safest I've ever felt here. And like, yeah, the, the most in love and the most like connected to this person that I've ever felt. Never even felt this. They're just still in their straw little hut on the beach. You know what I mean? Like, so it's so important what you just said and it's so important that, you know, people understand and I think especially men, because they are typically the ones more afraid of making the commitment that it's how you build it, right? And it's how you go into marriage that matters a lot more. Well, and obviously like who you pick, since we do have that option. But it can't be based on the superficial things when you make that choice or your foundation will shatter.

John [00:10:15]: Most people would be better off having someone randomly picked for them than their, their pick. And their reason why is not because they would pick poorly for themselves. It's because they. That that choice gives them the ability to unchoose, you see, because then they're focused on the wrong thing, right? Like the thing that can happen is that it transforms. And like an arranged marriage where you're not necessarily even initially attracted to the person gives you the ability to see what that transformation could be like. For example, you know, I'm attracted to your body because it's your body, right? You know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:10:54]: Because it's attached.

John [00:10:55]: Whatever form you took, I would be attracted to because it's you. Because I've built that with you. And it doesn't matter what form that you took, I like, because it's your form. It's attractive to me. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:11:09]: Which a lot of men, I think

John [00:11:10]: can't even fathom, which is something that could never change. Because even if you change, your form changes. Let me say that it doesn't. I'm attracted to you because I'm attracted to your form, because you are in it.

Nicole [00:11:25]: Right?

John [00:11:25]: You know what I'm saying? And that's way more powerful. That's permanent. There's no thing that can change that thing. And that's a rock solid foundation, right?

Nicole [00:11:35]: Yeah.

John [00:11:36]: And it's like the other thing I was telling him about that is that love is not a feeling, it's an action. I mean, it can be. You can feel the feeling of infatuation, of love, but it's the action of love that creates love, the feeling, the deeper love, the feeling, because it's the act of doing the thing, the act of loving that creates that feeling. And that's what you're really, really after. Because if you're looking at love, the feeling to be the thing to sustain you, well, that can fade over time. And that will then end the relationship and prevent you from having the death, the depth. But if it's love, the action, that creates love, the feeling, then they can be created at any time. And that's where even, you know, people that are going through it and they're like, oh, maybe they're not right for me and they should break up and stuff. It's like usually they're like, they're focusing on love, the feeling. They're like, I don't feel it. And it's. Well, yeah, but you don't feel it because you haven't created it, right? But if you have an intimacy and a depth with any person, you will have love the feeling come from that, from that creation of it. And it is possible with, I think, just about any person, like the arranged marriage situation. I think that's true. It's like. And that's why it's like, I'm not saying that, oh, everyone should have an arranged marriage, but I'm saying that most people probably would be better off in that situation because they would have taken away that choice, which if they felt like they had to make this thing work right then, then the only chance of them having that depth of intimacy would be with this person and they would find that way.

Nicole [00:13:16]: They would do the work.

John [00:13:17]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:13:18]: Make it happen. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. Like, I. I think you've explained it so well. And again, I think that more men need to hear this. Right. Like, you were on your coaching call when you were having this conversation. Because I, I do think. I'm not saying that women always invest more.

John [00:13:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:40]: But I do think that men are afraid. Again, it's like they're afraid financially, they're afraid. Who knows? There's other things. But I feel like typically the most men are afraid financially.

John [00:13:51]: Right.

Nicole [00:13:51]: But at the same time, if you ask them to be real and honest, are they doing all they can do? The answer would probably be no.

John [00:14:00]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:01]: Like, they're not really doing everything to. To show that love, to, like, make that choice. To love. Right, Right. To establish that stronger foundation. They're just like, well, she's hot and I'm attracted to her right now, so that's enough for me. You know what I mean? Like, and so they're like, living in that foundation. And even if the woman is, like, trying to have a deeper connection, if he's trying to keep it shallow because he's like, well, she might leave me.

John [00:14:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:30]: You know what I mean? Then she can't really develop that on her own. And I mean, even the man can't really develop it on his own either.

John [00:14:38]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:38]: Because with arranged marriages, it takes two people. Right. Like, it's usually both people making it work because they don't feel like they have another option.

John [00:14:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:46]: Which is what every married person should feel like. Right. Like, ultimately you're not going to give your best in a marriage if you feel like, well, I could get divorced and then I could find another husband or I could find another wife. You're not putting your all into that situation if you think that there's another option. Like, when you get married, it should feel like. Like you should treat it like, this is it. This is my exactly last relationship. This is the person I'm going to die with.

John [00:15:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:15]: So how am I going to make this the best thing? Because that's why I got into this, it felt like the best thing. That's why I got married.

John [00:15:21]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:22]: Because I was like, there's no one else better out there for me. I genuinely felt that. So why would I not continue to, like, work towards that and create that in our life Right. With you when that is what marriage essentially was supposed to be? Right. Like, it's good that divorce is not stigmatized like it used to be. However, in a way, it's kind of bad, though, because people aren't taking marriage as seriously. And I don't think it has to be stigmatized for people to take it seriously if they hear something like this and decide to make the choice. Like, unfortunately, things are stigmatized or demonized or made bad because people don't have the self discipline.

John [00:16:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:16:10]: To do it unless they're shamed or guilted or whatever. Yeah. But even then, it shouldn't be that way.

John [00:16:17]: But even then, that's not gonna push someone on the path of actually building the death. Because a lot of people, they'll criticize my viewpoint and they'll say, well, a lot of people in arranged marriages are not happy. They're just staying together because they're in arranged marriage and it's not okay to have a divorce. And so. But they're not in love with each other. And my answer to that is that a lot of people that initially fell in love with each other and are still married are not. They're the same as an arranged marriage. They're that you're saying, so where is the equation? What's the different. What's the differential in those things? Like, what makes a difference? It's actually, you can be in an arranged marriage and not ever love the person. Right. Or you could be in a relationship where you were attracted to the person and you don't love them anymore and you're married and you're just kind of roommates. The difference is not the attraction. It is what you do afterwards. Right. So, like, there's other people that could be in arranged marriage, and they're not initially attracted to each other, but they build a depth of a relationship because they're like, we're not just here to, like, start a family and raise kids. We're here to explore the depth of each other's souls and our own soul through this union in order to become better and to become one. And they understand that concept and they build an attraction to the other person that is not even based in the physical. Right. Where the physical. Just like I said, like, I'm attracted to Your body because you, it's yours because you, you occupy it. It's your form. But, but the same thing goes for the non arranged marriage where, you know, it's like if you don't understand that concept, you're going to be in trouble because eventually you're going to end up in the same. Like it didn't matter if you got an arranged marriage or not. For most people it doesn't matter because at the end of the day they're going to be in the same situation as two people that got put together because the initial thing faded or their looks changed or whatever it was, and now they're in the exact same place. So you might as well have been in an arranged marriage and started in that place because then you would have not thought that there was something wrong because that's the start. And I think even if you take you and I, right, I don't think it changes the situation. I think what it is is that we had a little bit of a head start because we had an instant connection of depth that was there and we still had to build that, but we had a head start rather than just two random people, you know what I'm saying? But I do believe that you could build that level of depth with anyone. It's good to find someone that I think maybe you could get a head start with. But if it's based completely off of the physical attraction and you're not understanding the concept behind it, then it's not gonna matter, right?

Nicole [00:19:05]: Well, yeah, like you said, we both invested too initially to like harboring that deep connection from the very beginning. It probably would have fizzled out if we didn't work on it even back then. So it's like. Cause I think a lot of people, you know, think, oh, well, I'll just meet somebody and it'll click. And like you said, that did happen with us. But if you just think that you click and then you don't have to do anything like, oh, I'm already clicked in, like we're already clicked, then yeah, you will end up in probably a really bad place because you'll be like, oh, I thought that we were like perfect together. And then you'll feel so disconnected.

John [00:19:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:19:46]: What people don't realize is that, I mean, it's kind of like the cliche, right, that like marriages are easy but they take a lot of work or however, you know, the thing is said over and over and I'm sure different ways, but it's because it's like our marriage is easy, right? But we're doing a lot of work.

John [00:20:05]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:06]: And not work as in, like, we argue all the time and like, we don't see eye to eye and whatever. Like, that's not work. I think when people hear, like, marriage is hard work from people, right. They're like, oh, they're fighting all the time and they got to like, figure out how to like each other. And like. No, that's not the work.

John [00:20:23]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:24]: The work is maintaining that connection by investing in your partner, by investing in the relationship, by investing in yourself so that you can show up the best for your partner. That's the hard work. Yeah, but it makes the marriage easy. It makes the relationship easy. It makes it feel so safe and comforting and stable.

John [00:20:46]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:47]: Because you're doing the work. Like you don't get a safe and stable house foundation. The brick house.

John [00:20:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:55]: By just being like, putting a brick down or whatever. You gotta, like, lay the cement. You gotta put each brick on brick by brick. Like, it's not just one and done. Like you. It's not like you meet somebody and you're like, yep, we're gonna be together. And we get along well now, so I'm sure we'll get along. No, like, that's why they also say you have to like, keep dating your partner and stuff. And even then it's like, yes, the dates are good. Cuz like, we don't even go on dates all the. All the time. But we invest in each other all the time. I mean, even if we're at home, like we're connecting, we're like talking, we're like, you know, building that stuff. And I think people talk about the dates because maybe some people aren't prioritizing those things at home. And I get it because like, a lot of people, it's like both people working and so they got a lot going on. They got kids or whatever, so they do need to take that date night to reconnect. Right, but you can also reconnect every night when you're in bed with your partner or take a second out of the day to like, have a conversation with your partner or like, do something kind for your partner, like invest in that. And yeah, I think arranged marriages, they realize that they're gonna have to make that investment. I think, again, I've never been in one, but I would think that when you know that you're gonna marry somebody and you know it's a done deal and you know that it's gonna happen, and you know that that's your partner, that's gonna be your partner for life. That's gonna be who you die with. You know, you're about to do some work, you know, that you're about to like invest and you're about to like figure a lot of stuff out and that you're going to like have to communicate with each other.

John [00:22:29]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:22:30]: To create like a, an easy feeling marriage.

John [00:22:34]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:35]: A safe feeling marriage, a comfortable feeling marriage. And so they are set up better than a lot of people because like you said, if you come into this and you're just like, well, I'm attracted to them, we get along and you know, we clicked from the very beginning.

John [00:22:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:22:48]: So I'm good. Like I'm not worried about anything. And then a few years later when those people are getting a divorce, it's like, what happened? And then like they act like they don't know.

John [00:22:58]: Yeah. Like I fell out of love. I don't.

Nicole [00:23:00]: Right. Like I don't love them anymore.

John [00:23:02]: Well, like I didn't see all these things about them that they, that I don't like. Now that I realized I didn't like from the start, it's like because I was infatuated. Like these are the things that are justify it.

Nicole [00:23:14]: Yeah.

John [00:23:14]: Right, Right.

Nicole [00:23:15]: But if you go into it like an arranged marriage like you said, and you're like, I'm going to have to keep this going. Well, one, you can't say. I mean people do say. But you can't say that you got up to the altar and said all these nice things and you didn't want to marry that person.

John [00:23:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:23:30]: Obviously unless you're in an arranged marriage or something. But even then they're not saying that cuz they know what their future is. So it's like if you got all the way up there.

John [00:23:39]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:23:39]: And you're acting like you didn't want to. I have a little bit of empathy for you. But it's about this.

John [00:23:46]: You might have been pressured. Sure.

Nicole [00:23:48]: But even then.

John [00:23:49]: But you still, that's your responsibility and you still made the commitment and, and you still said the things and you know, you, you still did it.

Nicole [00:23:56]: Right. So. Right. But it's like. But if you're, you get up there.

John [00:24:00]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:01]: And one, you already know because in your relationship you've also been building up to the point of getting married. You know that you're gonna continue to do this work and you're gonna continue to grow throughout your relationship and you're mentally prepared for that. Cause I do think that that's also why we have succeeded is because from the very beginning, we were both very growth mindset. We both wanted to be the best version of ourselves for each other and help each other grow and help each other work through things. And so when we got married, it wasn't like, oh, we don't have to do anything anymore. You know what I mean? Like, we were already like, this is the path we're gonna go down. And it's the path that. And we're aware of that.

John [00:24:39]: And this podcast helped us a lot. I mean, I kind of hate to think where we. I mean, we'd still be in a decent place, but I do. It does. It would scare me to think of, like, where would we be without doing this podcast? Because this podcast, where do you think we would be? Not. Not as far as we are. I think we'd still, you know, obviously we'd still be together. We'd still. But like.

Nicole [00:25:00]: Cause we have to own up to all of our stuff all the time

John [00:25:03]: and just making a concerted effort to focus on really. Because every week we have to be thinking about and talking about relationship stuff and the stuff that we're. That we're dealing with and we're addressing, you know, So I think that that, that makes an impact.

Nicole [00:25:20]: Yeah, no, you're right. I didn't even think about it like that. Yeah, that's true. Well, and we're holding ourselves accountable.

John [00:25:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:27]: You know, and. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You don't have to have a podcast in order to make your relationship, but

John [00:25:34]: you can make your own little podcast, like between the two of you, even if no one shares a meeting or. Yeah. Where you're talking about discussing the things so that it's on the mind. On the top of mind, you know, But. But I think you're right. And you got my point exactly, which is that people coming into arranged marriages already know that they're going to have to do work, whereas people that are just fall in love and get married, they just think that it's just supposed to just be like that or just be happy. Like it just. You shouldn't have to try. And it's like, no, it should be easy, but it's still work, like you said. But it's, you know, if you come in with that illusion, it's not gonna. It's just like, if you get a job, let's say you get a job in doing modeling. Right. Or in acting or whatever, and you're like, oh, this is wonderful. This would be great. I just stand around and people take my picture and I get Paid money, right? That's not what it is. That's not what it is. It is. It's a long freaking 12 hour day. It's like a lot of like, it's not just, yeah, you just get money for somebody to take your picture. It's. There's work involved in that. And so if you come in with that idea, you're going to be, it's going to, you're going to set yourself up for failure.

Nicole [00:26:45]: Right.

John [00:26:46]: Like, you got to know what you're getting into. Like, no matter how attractive it appears to be, there's going to be some difficulty and work. And at least the people, hopefully, that are getting into an arranged marriage already kind of know that.

Nicole [00:27:00]: Right.

John [00:27:01]: They're already coming in expecting, all right, I'm going to have to, like, I've never lived with this person. I've never really. I have hardly dated this person, if I've even seen them or dated them at all. It depends. Like, today modern arranged marriages are more like the family has a couple of different people and then you kind of meet them a little bit and help make the decision. That's typically how the more modern ones are. But hey, but still, like, it's not like you're getting to know this person at a deep level before you actually jump in and tie the knot. So you're kind of expecting that you're going to, you know, you're more well set up for what's about to, to take place.

Nicole [00:27:43]: No. Yeah, I agree. Well, and you got me thinking, like, you know people when they're in relationships and then it gets kind of rocky and they're like, let's have a kid, that'll fix it. You know what I mean? I think that again, that's another attempt, like a wrong attempt to lock back in.

John [00:28:02]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:03]: Because they're like, oh, well, we'll connect. We'll have, you know, we'll be raising a child together and like, we'll go back to like when we first met and we just clicked and everything was good.

John [00:28:12]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:12]: And then that never works. Right. Like, that never works because they're also viewing that as like, we just need to do this one thing and then it'll click back in. They're not like, no, this is gonna be even more work now. Like, they're not genuinely thinking that, like, they couldn't even handle the work to keep their marriage at a stable, like, level.

John [00:28:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:33]: Where they're deeply connected to each other. And then now they're adding a child on top of that, which is more work because when you're married and you have a kid or kids, you're not only doing the marriage work, you're doing the child work.

John [00:28:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:49]: You're doing the work of raising human beings on top of trying to maintain a deep and intimate connection with your partner.

John [00:28:55]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:28:57]: So please, anyone listening, if you're married.

John [00:29:00]: Yeah. That doesn't fix your problem.

Nicole [00:29:01]: Not doing well.

John [00:29:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:03]: Do not put a child band aid on it.

John [00:29:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:06]: Like, lock back in for the little Gen Z, Gen Alpha people, They're probably not watching this, but you got lock in back into your relationship.

John [00:29:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:29:18]: And start the work. Start building that foundation that's not based on chemistry and physical appearance and feelings. Build it on something that is unshakable. That doesn't change that even if your feelings are all over the place because you're going through something, that you're still gonna be there for your partner and your family because it's built on more than just how you feel in the moment. It's built on you guys connecting on such a deep level that you know that even if you're feeling off, your partner's got your back or they're. They're gonna help you, or they'll pick up the load until you're feeling better. Whatever is needed when you have that connection. All those things that are fleeting or like you said, if, God forbid, something happened to you, like, it doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter what you look like at all. It doesn't matter about any of that. Like, I will still always want to be with you. Because it's not built on your. You being a tall, buff, hot man.

John [00:30:22]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:30:24]: It's built on who you are and our relationship. And so, again, like, I feel like people are probably, like, thinking, oh, it's. We're not that superficial. But you do have to kind of dig deep down and be like, okay, like, maybe you're not superficial in the way I just mentioned, but your relationship can still be superficial if you don't have that deep intimacy and connection.

John [00:30:48]: Well, look at it like, I mean, we're gonna try to do some episodes on celebrity breakups because there's so many of them are divorces. Right. And it's like celebrities split up all the time.

Nicole [00:30:59]: Right.

John [00:30:59]: They're good looking. They have money.

Nicole [00:31:02]: Right.

John [00:31:03]: So it's. What's going on there. Yeah. So what's going on? It can't be that. Those are the things that are important. Obviously. You see what I'm saying? Like, there's something else that that's going on. And it's not just compatibility personalities, right? It's not doing the work in building that. That depth. And that's. That's the thing, because that will. It'll get you. It doesn't matter how good the things start. Right. You have to know. And I think, like, maybe that even helps you with the selection criteria of deciding who to get married to and when to get married to. It's not really a matter of, like, the physical appearance. It's not really a matter of even the compatibility so much. It's a matter of is this person willing to do the work with me?

Nicole [00:31:42]: Right.

John [00:31:43]: Because you don't really know this person yet. Not really. Like, yeah, spend some time, you know, and date and whatever and get as close to possible. But what you should really be looking for is will this person grow with me? Will they. Will they do the work that we know that's coming? And I think if you come in with that mindset and that's your filter, then you're going to get there because, you know, because one person can't do it by themselves either. If they're going to give. If they're not ready to pick up the shovel and do the work, then that's what's going to be the downfall. Because even though it might not feel like work right now at first, eventually you're going to get to the point where you're going to have to really start digging because you're going to have. In order to get to that depth of intimacy, it requires that. And so, like, a lot of stuff that you don't know about the person, you're going to find out and you're going to have to deal with and that you don't know about yourself, you know, you're going to discover. And if you're willing to work through that and figure the things out and grow together, then you're going to be able to build that depth. But it's not a matter of who you started with as much, even though that's what people like to think that it is. It's like finding the right person. It's not finding the right person so much as it is being willing to

Nicole [00:33:07]: do the work well. And I think at times it's a way to blame. Right.

John [00:33:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:12]: Blame someone else for the work you didn't do.

John [00:33:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:16]: For the work you didn't put in for, like, the way you didn't show up, like, by being like, oh, we just weren't compatible. It's an easy way out to, like, Blame someone else.

John [00:33:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:33:26]: But like you said, when you look at arranged marriages, it's like they didn't choose. And even if they did choose, they chose from a very limited selection with very limited knowledge about this person.

John [00:33:38]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:39]: And so, you know, and I'm not saying that sometimes there aren't things that go on in a relationship that is a result of how someone acted, but if you're really honest, normally it's both people's actions and it's both people not doing the work or not showing up properly. So, again, I think a lot of the, like, oh, I fell out of love, or it just didn't work out is blame. It's blaming. It's trying to put the blame on someone else for the work that you didn't do, for not showing up the way that you could have.

John [00:34:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:15]: Because I think that, you know, if you do put in the work, but for some reason, it doesn't work out because the other person's not putting in the work. Because it does take two people. Again, it takes two people. I still don't think that you would be more in a blaming space of, like, oh, it was all their fault. You know what I mean? Because you would have that fulfillment of, well, I did all that I can do.

John [00:34:38]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:34:39]: And so you would probably be a little bit more disappointed because you wanted it to work and you were waiting for that person to show up. Like, you were showing up, and it would be coming more from that place. You know what I mean? But I think a lot of times, like you said, we're so quick to, like, throw people away.

John [00:34:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:34:58]: Because it is shallow. Because it's a straw house on the shore and the wind blew it away. It's easy to be like, oh, yeah, well, it didn't work out, you know, but it could have.

John [00:35:07]: But you didn't dig the basement. You didn't dig the deep foundation.

Nicole [00:35:11]: Yeah. That makes it so you didn't lay the bricks down.

John [00:35:13]: Yeah. Yeah. And I think just as we see more and more people that were so in love fall apart and fall out of love, it just becomes more and more clear. Like, what's the thing that we have that's maintaining us that other people don't

Nicole [00:35:28]: have and everyone can have it. That's why we started this podcast.

John [00:35:32]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:35:33]: It's like, everyone can do this, right? Like, we don't sit here week after week to just talk about, like, try to act like we're better than everybody or like, that we have all the. The knowledge or answers. Like you said. This is actually holding us accountable. This is helping us figure out the answers in real time. Like, we come on here and talk about all the mistakes that we've made.

John [00:35:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:35:55]: But that's what we want to do so that people know that this is possible for everyone. And it is work. And if you don't want to work, you're not going to have a successful marriage with anybody.

John [00:36:07]: Right. And it also, I think it relieves a lot of pressure because you don't have to find that one special person. You know what I mean? It's like you just have to find someone and them be willing to do the work and you be willing to

Nicole [00:36:20]: do the work and they will be that special someone.

John [00:36:23]: Because, yeah, it's great. If you start off wildly attracted to each other and in love, great. On one hand, it's great. But you're still gonna at some day end up in the same exact place where two people who got arranged marriage and didn't know each other were at. Like, you're gonna end up in that same place at some point. If. If you don't do anything, right? And then you're going to have to then either divorce them or start actually doing the work, then your marriage really begins, right? Yeah. I mean, it's like, before it was just fantasy land, and now your marriage actually begins. And so now when you get to that point, what do you want to do? Are you going to freak out and be like, this is not how it's supposed to be. This is not how the fairy tale is supposed to go. Are you going to be like, oh, okay, now like, I need to do the work. But if you came into it that way and thinking about that, then you would have done that from the beginning. You're never going to hit that crisis situation.

Nicole [00:37:15]: Y.

John [00:37:16]: And that's why that's so.

Nicole [00:37:18]: Well, it's funny you say that because it makes me think that maybe that's the honeymoon phase and maybe that's why it ends. Like, the honeymoon phase is like, oh, it feels so easy. You don't really have to do a lot of work. And then it's over when you. When it's time to do the work, but you're not doing it. You're still like in the honeymoon phase of like, I don't have to do work. I'm on vacation. This is honeymoon vacation. And then you're like, oh, well, I didn't have to do anything. And it went pretty good then, so.

John [00:37:45]: But all that tartar was building up all that resentment because you weren't dealing with it because you weren't doing the work. And then one day you wake up and it's like, I don't. I don't know who this person is. I don't love this person. I don't like this person. Like I'm not attracted to this person. And then you want to change.

Nicole [00:38:02]: Right.

John [00:38:02]: You know, but it's like. Well, it was because it's not because some chemicals in your brain, like the honeymoon phase is over. Maybe there's truth to that from a chemical perspective, but the reason why it didn't sustain past that was because during that time you were just riding on that wave of hormones instead of doing the work while that's happening. Because you can have a nice soft landing and go through and then things pick up. Because I would say we're way more infatuated with each other, in love with each other, than now than we were when we first met. That it increases, it goes up and is better.

Nicole [00:38:41]: Well, no, I was going to say that because essentially what you said is 1,000% it, that I don't feel like we had a honeymoon phase. I feel like we live that because we've been doing the work from the beginning. And I wouldn't even call it. I wouldn't even say we're living in the honeymoon. I would say it's something deeper than that. I don't know what you would call it, but it's like it's more than that because like you said from the very beginning, we put in the work. And so there was never this like super high and then drop off. If anything, it's been high and then it's somehow getting higher. And we didn't even think that it could go higher than that. And I believe it'll continue to go higher. It'll continue to go to places that we didn't even know was possible because we continuously show up and do the work every single day.

John [00:39:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:39:31]: And each day it might look different. In each season of life it might look different, but there's always work being put in. Because I'm invested in this and in you, and you're invested in this and in me. And that's what we signed up for. And we knew that. And we knew that's what we wanted and what we wanted to do.

John [00:39:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:39:47]: And so we're making it work.

John [00:39:49]: And. And I think the thing is, maybe, maybe the good message for people, because not a lot of people are in an arrangement. I mean, maybe some people will probably attract a demographic of people that are in arranged Marriages. But a lot of people that aren't, whether you're in an arranged marriage or you're not in an arranged marriage, you. You can make it wonderful, right? Like, wherever you're at, if you're like, you guys fell in love and now you're. It's kind of just fizzled and you're just staying together, or you're in an arranged marriage and you're just. Maybe you've been in arranged marriage for 10 years and you've just, like, raise the kids and, like, you know, live separate lives, you know, whatever, and you just. You're not truly in love with each other. You can become that, right? That's the thing is, like, there is hope. Like, you can resurrect. Not even resurrect. You can create something that didn't even exist before, even if it's been 10 years, right. No matter what it is, like, you can. It's not like, oh, I picked the wrong person, or the love is over or whatever. It's like, no, wherever you're at right now, you can go and create that thing if you put in the effort to go to that level of depth, which it all comes down to. And that's the other thing I told my coaching client was it's all about really, just a level of vulnerability of really connecting with another person. Exactly. With another person. And that's what creates that level of depth. So if you're in that situation, maybe you've been married for 10 years and you never really loved each other or you thought you did, and now you're like, the reason why you're staying in the state is because you both have shut off and have stopped becoming vulnerable, or you never did. And so you never got there. And so if you can, I guess that's our cue. But if you can get that depth, you know, get that vulnerability, you will create that depth. And you can be more in love than you've ever been or that you ever thought was possible and more in love than people that didn't have arranged marriages. If you're in arranged marriage, you know, or people that just newly got married. If you've been married for 20 years and you've lost a spark like, you can be. You can create that. It just. Most people don't think it's possible.

Nicole [00:42:00]: Right. And they kind of give up.

John [00:42:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:02]: Yeah. No, you're right. You can change your life at any time, and that includes your relationship.

John [00:42:07]: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, this one is a little bit shorter. I think we should. Should wrap it.

Nicole [00:42:13]: Yeah. I can't think of anything else to add. Like I said, I think you explained it really well, and I think that. I'm not saying it's just a man issue, but I do think it's important for men to hear, because I do feel like women tend to fight more for their relationships. And so if a woman feels like a man's fighting as well, then you can definitely get to where you're going. Like, when women will check out.

John [00:42:41]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:41]: You know, but you can also, I feel like, win a woman back as well, too. If you show up and, like, put in the work, she can potentially come back as well, too. So, again, I'm not saying it's all on men for this, but I think that men really need to hear this because they have a lot more influence in the relationship than they think that they do. And, you know, we've been hearing from people that we know too, that, like, women are the thermometer of the relationship, which is true.

John [00:43:05]: Right? Yeah.

Nicole [00:43:06]: But if the man is blowing cold air and it's bringing the temperature way down, what can a woman really do?

John [00:43:14]: She needs to be alerting that that's happening. That's what she can do.

Nicole [00:43:18]: But what if he's still blowing air? It's like, it's cold, the AC's on, and he's still going. You know what I mean? Like, there is still only so much a woman can do to influence a man. And so that's why I think it's important for men to hear this, because, you know, it's harder for a woman to convince a man of these things, especially, like, in the relationship if he's not really receptive to it.

John [00:43:38]: The man has to lead the woman in this direction that we're saying.

Nicole [00:43:41]: Right?

John [00:43:42]: Saying, look, forget about the infatuation part. Like, don't have to say this specifically, but this is the thought process and leading in the way of saying, we're gonna build something way deeper than this. I'm gonna take you to this place. As opposed to just letting her. Whatever. Letting it just be whatever. Like, you have to actively, as a man, be like, okay, what are the things that I need to work on? What are the things that she needs to work on? How can we grow together? Like, what's the plan so that we can build this level of depth? How can I help her and assist her in the way that I can through my leadership to make her a better person for herself and for the relationship? And how can I do the same for myself and show, you know, it's like, you gotta be thinking like that as a man and leading in that direction.

Nicole [00:44:27]: Yeah.

John [00:44:27]: Because that's what you're supposed to be doing.

Nicole [00:44:29]: No, A thousand percent. It did sound like you said a woman and her sister, but you said a sister.

John [00:44:35]: Oh, yeah. A woman and her sister.

Nicole [00:44:37]: Yeah.

John [00:44:38]: You know, the sister wives that you're like.

Nicole [00:44:41]: Well, on that note, we can end on a light note.

John [00:44:44]: Yeah. Next time we'll talk about sister wives and I don't know about that.

Nicole [00:44:51]: And other forms of marriage.

John [00:44:53]: All right, well, that's it for this. This week. If you like the podcast, obviously, subscribe

Nicole [00:45:00]: to us and share it with your friends, family.

John [00:45:02]: Yeah. Share it with your arranged marriage partner. Yeah.

Nicole [00:45:07]: Friends.

John [00:45:07]: Yeah. Or. Or. Or people, you know, that are in a stale marriage.

Nicole [00:45:11]: Yeah.

John [00:45:11]: And. And think that's just how it is that you just become roommates. Because it doesn't have to be.

Nicole [00:45:16]: That's true.

John [00:45:17]: So. All right. And. And visit at the. The website betterthenperfectpod.com we'll see you next week.

Nicole [00:45:25]: We find our way.