Nicole [00:00:00]: You can't allow your fears to dictate your life. Recently, I realized I can't live like this, but I'm doing it out of fear, like, and it's clouding my judgment of you. Just because he did this one thing, he must secretly be bad or something or. And even like the guys right in the comments, they're being like, I got manipulated one time. I'm not even saying that they didn't ever get manipulated by a woman crying. Allowing that situation to dictate the rest of your life is not going to get you the relationship that you want. And if you get lucky like me and you still get the relationship you want, you might be sabotaging it.

John [00:00:33]: Beyond the perfect, we discover through our.

Nicole [00:00:37]: Flaws we complete each other.

John [00:00:40]: Better than perfect we stay through every.

Nicole [00:00:45]: Fault we find our way.

John [00:00:50]: All right, welcome back to the Better than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how to imperfect people helping each other grow in equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:01:00]: It is permanently ingrained in your brain. Yeah.

John [00:01:05]: So, yeah, what's been going on? I mean, we were watching the Secret.

Nicole [00:01:11]: Lives, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I got John watching it with me. We just watched the first episode, though, so we're not super far in. But.

John [00:01:20]: But, yeah, I think the whole thing is fake and staged, but.

Nicole [00:01:23]: Yeah. Well, I don't really know much about the Mormon community. John knows way more than me, and he thinks it's not legitimate.

John [00:01:33]: I feel like they would excommunicated immediately for, you know, like, lesser offenses, people get excommunicated and they. Especially in Utah. Like, there's Utah Mormons and California Mormons and different. But Utah Mormons. I feel like you're just. You're not talking to your family anymore. You're done. So.

Nicole [00:01:53]: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. But I agree with you that some of the stuff they're doing that just based on what you've told me that you know about the Mormon community, that they. And just like churches, how they can be strict in general, like, that probably wouldn't be very good.

John [00:02:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:10]: Things that they're doing.

John [00:02:11]: There's not really much in terms of relationship dynamics, so surprisingly.

Nicole [00:02:16]: Well, I think it goes by each person or something. I don't know. Because the first one was all about the Taylor girl. Right. So maybe we'll have. We need to watch more, obviously. But maybe they're about each wife and, like, what they're going through. I don't know.

John [00:02:31]: When's a new season of the Love is Blind coming out? That should be, I don't know, coming out soon because that's, you know, we got to do like a live stream or something.

Nicole [00:02:40]: Yeah, we should. That's actually in live. Do it and have one of our phones on the TV and one of our. Yeah, that's actually not a bad idea.

John [00:02:48]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:48]: But I know. I kind of was contemplating today's topic being like something about swinging because that's like all they seem to be talking about. Like I didn't even know there was a scandal thing or like soft swinging. Like what even is that? But. Or I didn't know that Mormon people would be swinging. Like that definitely seems against the, the rules.

John [00:03:11]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:03:11]: But yeah, I don't know. That's all I've been like seeing mostly on Tick Tock and stuff like that is about the swinging and you know, people talking about the, the episodes. But I'm trying not to get any spoilers. So it seems like there's a lot.

John [00:03:29]: Of stuff coming episode at some point talking about like open relation or like in that non exclusivity.

Nicole [00:03:36]: And I think we talked a little bit in one of them. Yeah, I can't remember what the main.

John [00:03:40]: Topic was but, but I always, I mean I get a lot of times from guys I'm coaching them always like, nope, don't do it. It's not a smart idea.

Nicole [00:03:49]: Yeah, well, I mean we saw in the first episode, right. That like the girl caught feelings for one of the other guys. Because I do feel like a lot of times it's the guys, like, okay, yeah, I get to like sleep with other people and like, you know, a.

John [00:04:01]: Lot of guys want to arrange it and do arrange it. So that's one way open for them. Which again I tell them not to do because it's not a good idea either. Right. Because yes, you know, women will share a high value man, like a valuable guy. They will. Rather than. But it's not.

Nicole [00:04:24]: A woman doesn't respect herself.

John [00:04:27]: Yeah. I mean a large percentage of women that you wouldn't expect would under the right circumstances. But at the same time what I always tell guys is like it's not going to, you're not going to be serving her very well. You know what I'm saying? She's not going to be happy about it. You're not actually looking out for her best interest. So again, part of being a leader, the reason why you're given the authority to lead is because you're putting other people before you. You're putting her before you. And so if you're not Doing that, then you don't really have the respect or authority to lead at that point. So you putting yourself into a. Not a good situation.

Nicole [00:05:07]: Well, I would say, though, that women, the only women who are willing to share a man, it's not because of the man. It's because of the other things that he provides and not even, like, emotionally like it. I can't see any woman who respects herself and loves a man sharing him with another woman, like, genuinely loves.

John [00:05:27]: Yeah, for sure.

Nicole [00:05:28]: Like, I can see where, like, billionaires or whatever who are like, look, I'm gonna sleep with other people. And a woman being like, okay, well, I want to live this lifestyle being like, okay, do whatever you want. You know what I mean?

John [00:05:40]: Yeah. That's the logical, though, right? Like. Like, there are many circumstances where a woman becomes infatuated with the man and then she's, you know, willing to get is whatever amount of his time that she can get. Right. That's what.

Nicole [00:05:54]: But also, too, that still makes me feel like she doesn't respect herself, though. Right.

John [00:05:58]: Because it's like, yeah, you have to.

Nicole [00:06:00]: Even if that is. And she's, like, letting herself be walked all over because she loves this man so much, she doesn't respect herself. And in turn, he's not gonna respect her as much. And that's also probably why he's doing it. Some of it, you know.

John [00:06:16]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:06:16]: Because she doesn't respect herself.

John [00:06:18]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:06:19]: But, yeah, it's. I agree with you, but it's not. It's never a good idea. If you want a legitimate relationship with.

John [00:06:29]: Somebody, it doesn't end well. It's what I always tell them. It's like, there's no happy ending to.

Nicole [00:06:33]: This, and you can't have deep intimacy.

John [00:06:35]: Right. Exactly.

Nicole [00:06:36]: Like, at all. Nobody can. She can't with you because she knows you're out doing something else. You can't with her because you're spreading yourself thin with all these other people.

John [00:06:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:45]: Like, you're not going to ever have that deep, deep connection that a lot of people want, even if they say that they don't.

John [00:06:51]: Right, Exactly.

Nicole [00:06:52]: But I guess that can segue a little bit into what today's topic is. And, you know, based on the things that we've been going through the past week, mostly, you know, me figuring out my issues and my fears and confronting that, and then seeing some of the videos that you've actually posted on your personal Bulldog Mindset account, and the one I'm specifically thinking of is the one where you said that if a man doesn't Comfort a woman that's crying.

John [00:07:26]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:27]: He's not a good man.

John [00:07:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:07:29]: And just there's like 400 comments there.

John [00:07:33]: That many are you looking at?

Nicole [00:07:34]: There's like four is on TikTok, it's on Tik Tok. There's like 440 something. But I'm like, yeah, a good. Maybe not 400, but a good, like 350 of them.

John [00:07:44]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:44]: Are stories of women saying they came to their husband or their boyfriend crying and just all these really sad ways that he responded. And one person actually said, you know, a dismissive, avoidant person. They just genuinely don't know how to comfort people sometimes. And they don't understand, like, they weren't showed how to be vulnerable and how to do things the right way. And that's also true. But a lot of these men are not, you know, in that severe of a situation. Some of them are because men typically, like you said, are avoidant and women are. What's the other one?

John [00:08:25]: The anxious.

Nicole [00:08:26]: Anxious. Yeah. So, you know, that does play into it. I'm not saying it doesn't, but when I saw that comment, I had to like it too, because that's what I had been going through, right? Like, I was so guarded and, like, avoidant and, like, didn't know how to be vulnerable or it didn't feel comfortable or it felt, like, scary. I had this fear, right, that if I didn't protect myself, then nobody would or, you know, then I would lose the ability to do that or, you know, it was a fear. It was a fear at the end of the day. And so I realized too that the other part of the comments were men being like, no, I'm. I don't care if a woman cries. She's not going to manipulate me. And it was all about being manipulated by the tears. And I was just like, this is just fear, right? Like, keeping us apart from each other. Right. Like we're supposed to need each other. Like, I know men don't like to say they need women, and I know women don't like to say they need men, but we do. Like, it is the harmony. It is the balance. It is the yin and the yang. And I understand that it's scary. And people have their own. Every single person has an example of something they went through that caused a fear in them in a relationship. Every single person. So it's not like their fears aren't legitimate. But at the same time, you can't allow your fears to dictate your life. And I also did this how I just Described, but also I had been cheated on and betrayed, you know, in that way by two people actually, in my situation. And I did allow it to also, you know, kind of create this anger in me.

John [00:10:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:10:23]: Or this fear. Right. Like, and so I'm coming here laying out my own fears and my own mess that I made for myself. To say, though, that recently I realized I can't, like, live like this. I can't always defend myself, and I don't need to, but I'm doing it out of fear, like, and it's clouding my judgment of you because I'm so afraid that I'll do what a lot of people do and be like, oh, well, he did this, so this. He must be doing this bad thing. Or, like, just because he did this one thing, he must secretly be bad or something. Or even, like, the guys right in the comments are being like, I got manipulated one time. I'm not even saying that they didn't ever get manipulated by a woman crying. I know that there are women who are out there doing that, but allowing that situation to dictate the rest of your life or the rest of the way you're going to interact with women is not going to get you the relationship that you want. And if you get lucky, like me, and you still get the relationship you want, you might be sabotaging it.

John [00:11:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:33]: And like I said, it's not just a guy thing. Women are doing this as well, too. Because even though there were tons of really sad comments, I'm not even saying that those women didn't do anything wrong on their side of the street.

John [00:11:45]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:11:46]: But it is still sad to see all of these women with all these stories being like, I was crying, you know, in front of my husband, and he just said, suck it up. Or, you know, you can go on the. If you look at John's Instagram, it's one of our TikTok. It's one of the popular videos that got a lot of views you could go and see. But it just made me realize because I was going through it recently and just seeing everybody in the comments. Right. Just living out of fear. And even though the women, I get their side because they're like, I put myself out there and I got hurt. And I see the guys being like, I, you know, validated her emotions and then she manipulated me. Like. Like, I can understand why you're afraid.

John [00:12:34]: Right.

Nicole [00:12:35]: But at the same time, you'll never get the closeness. You'll never get the intimacy. You'll never. You'll never get the Love that someone is trying to give you if you're living from this place of fear. And so I don't know exactly where to go. I guess we could just.

John [00:12:56]: Well, yeah, I've got a few.

Nicole [00:12:58]: Dive more into it.

John [00:12:59]: But yeah, that was the longest intro for a topic, I think. I mean, it wasn't. I'm not. It was kind of.

Nicole [00:13:06]: It was good intro, but also like.

John [00:13:08]: What is the topic about? And then like, you know, you gotta find out. So you gotta listen to find out.

Nicole [00:13:14]: Right.

John [00:13:14]: But no, it's a podcast.

Nicole [00:13:15]: You gotta listen. I'm sorry. Not sorry.

John [00:13:18]: No, no, it was good. It was good, it was good. But yeah, so I mean, a couple of things that I was thinking about is. Well, one of them is that because I think it's the ant, the antithesis to this is playing full out, right. Which we talked about going all in and that's what we're afraid of. But if I look back at my life, I don't have a lot of regrets in life and I think most people would find a similar thing. But the things that I do regret in life are things like, I wish in that race I would have pushed a little harder or gave it my all or not quit at mile 36 or whatever. Like, I wish I would have just pushed a little harder and kept going, like, put it all in. Those are the regrets I have in life is anywhere where I was like, I wish I would have just did a little bit more, pushed more, you know, gave everything that I had. Those are the regrets that people have in life. And that's, that's one of the reasons why, just in general, you should go all in on whatever you're doing in life because you will regret not doing that. And you know, one thing that it reminds me too is when I was little, maybe, I don't know, like 10 or 12 somewhere around there, and I was living in South Carolina, there was this, there was this woods that we used to play in. Kids, right? And there's this huge ditch, right? In order to, to get there, sometimes there'd be a board across it so you could cross it into the woods, sometimes there wouldn't be. And when there wasn't, you had to jump the ditch. And it was a good, you know, ten foot span, you had to jump. It was just jumpable, right? If you put, if you ran as fast as you could and you jumped as hard as you could, you could just barely make it to the other side. But it was a deep ditch. It was like eight foot fall. If you Missed it. Right. So I remember as a kid, I would. I remember trying to jump the ditch and you see that ditch and you're scared, right? And so you're running as fast as you can, right? And then for some reason, instinctually, as you're getting close to that ditch, instead of continuing to run as fast as you can, you slow down and then you jump and you fall in, right? You fall in the mud, Right. But if you just go all the way, then you don't get hurt. You make it to the other end. And I think with a lot of things in relationships, what people do is that they have that fear. And instead of going all in, right. Instead of saying, I'm just going to go full into this 100%, they go 90%. And 90% is the worst percent because that's where you fall into the pit. If you go 0 or 10%, right. Even if, you know, when I was a kid, sometimes you would see someone go and run and they'd be running as fast as they could, but then about five feet before they'd slow down and they'd stop completely. And they don't fall in the pit. It's only the people who give it 90% that fall in and get hurt. And so a lot of times people have life experience where they're like, well, I gave it, I went, and that's how I got hurt. And many times what's happened is that they're recounting the story from going 90% instead of 100%. I'm not saying that you can't get hurt at 100%, but your likelihood is much less. Right. You're creating scenarios where you're going to definitely get hurt when you're at 90%, because that's the formula for, for getting hurt every Single time is 90%. So you have to go 100% full into things and let go of that fear, because the fear is the thing that actually ends up hurting you. And we call it self sabotage. That's what we, we call it. But that's what it is, you know?

Nicole [00:17:20]: Right. Well, I actually have a John analogy too, to go with yours. So our daughter got hurt dancing, right? She loves to dance.

John [00:17:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:30]: And she's a little afraid to do the move that hurt her. Right. Which is natural. Like, she got hurt really bad. She was on crutches.

John [00:17:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:38]: But at the same time, if she allowed that to never let her dance again, something that she really loved to do, which you and I both know she's not gonna do that.

John [00:17:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:17:50]: Or. And I know that one day she will even do the move that hurt her because she loves the dancing part so much. Right. Like, she learned how to better handle it, how to maybe, like, notice within her body, like, I'm pushing it too far now. So she learned from this experience, but it's not going to keep her from never doing it again because she loves that thing. Right?

John [00:18:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:14]: So if you love the person you're with, and even if in the past, other people hurt you and they did these things, you learned something from that.

John [00:18:22]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:22]: But you shouldn't be allowing that to keep you from fully investing in the thing that you love. Right. And that's also what I was subconsciously doing to you. Right. Like, I had these fears that, like, I. I was like, I'm at 100. Like, I'm fully invested. Like, look at all these things. But there was this subconscious part, like you said, that was keeping me at 90. And that part was actually, like you said, I was, like, falling in the pit, and I was like, well, what's going on? You know? But it's easier to view it in a way of something that you love because, like, okay, at the end of the day, I'm not gonna jump out of an airplane. I don't want to do that. That risk is not worth it to me.

John [00:19:03]: Right.

Nicole [00:19:03]: But being with the person I love or doing something that I love or, you know, things like that, that's worth it to me. And so. And if a relationship. If you feel like your relationship's not worth that to you.

John [00:19:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:19:16]: Then that's a whole nother thing that you should probably think about, because it should be. Like, your relationship should make you want to confront your fears and not allow that to put turmoil in your relationship. Like, things are going to happen. I'm not saying we're not ever going to have a problem ever again. But me recognizing the fear and how it was dictating my life and what it was doing to keep me from being as close to you as possible, that was worth recognizing. And it's worth throwing out the window, because there's a part of me now that's like, okay, well, I obviously know how to protect myself. I was doing that even when I didn't know that. But I don't need to do that. Like, I don't need to have this fear. And even though these things have happened to me before and I've been in these situations, which is what caused the fear, I get to choose whether I live from that fear and allow it to dictate my life or not. And so if you've survived being manipulated by a woman crying and you survived a man laughing at your vulnerability, you know that you can survive it again. And hopefully you don't have to do that. And with the right person, you won't. But you can't just treat everybody like they're going to do the same thing to you because you'll keep living the same, same, like, scared, clothes off way.

John [00:20:43]: And so what if they do? You know, one thing, it's kind of interesting when drunk drivers get into car accidents, a lot of times, in many cases, the actual drunk driver, the person who's drunk, survives and the other people die. And the reason why is because the drunk person doesn't brace for impact. They don't, they don't have. Their reactions are not fast enough. So they're loose, they're limber, they're like, so when you try to protect yourself, you hurt yourself. We have this illusion thinking that we can protect ourselves emotionally. We cannot protect ourselves emotionally. It's not possible to do. We harm ourselves by. By doing it. But everyone tends to think that. Most people tend to think that, right? But when we let go of that, then we're actually. It's, it's even just like we were talking about before the, the podcast about the guy that messaged me, and, and he's like, f you, you. You know, I won't repeat the words, but, you know, a not so good terminology for a gay man. You know, he called me a lot of stuff, right? And I responded to him with, without defending myself, without trying to protect myself from just. With some indifference and just compassion. And I converted him into a friend. I just had a chat with him last week on a Skype call, and he wants to help me.

Nicole [00:22:20]: And I wouldn't believe it unless I heard the voice messages that they were sending back and forth. But.

John [00:22:26]: Yeah, but, but the point is, it's like that's what happens when you don't try and protect yourself, right? Because you know, when you do that, you, you, you hurt, you hurt yourself. Just like we were talking about, I think what's last. We were talking about the hedgehog, right? It's like, yeah, you know, it's, it's the same thing, but. But yeah, but it comes from fear, right? And when we have the fear, we think that, you know, and just like you said, with the guys that are worried about a woman manipulating them, then let them manipulate you, then, you know, you can assess that, right?

Nicole [00:22:58]: You will be able to figure it out.

John [00:23:00]: It's just like I used to say, because guys used to always tell me, oh, what if a woman uses me for dinner, for a date? You know, I'm like, so like I'll still go out with the girl and then she could, she could use me for dinner. I don't care. Like it's like I have more money. I like, like she'd be stupid to do it. Right. Because you're get, you're missing out on the best part. Right, Exactly. So. And you're going to just burn me and then, and then I'm never going to like, you have no chance with me now. If you want to do that, go ahead. So I'm allow, I'm going to allow people to, if they want to do something nasty, I'll allow them to do it. It's fine, I'll survive, I'll be fine. I'm not going to let it change me and make me try to protect myself and not live full out in life. Right. Whatever it is, if I'm going into it, I'm going to it 100%. But that's, that's the thing. So I think a lot of guys are afraid of that and they're afraid that they're going to get used or manipulated and you have to just say whatever happens is going to happen. But I'm not going to change who I am. Right. It used to be, you know, same thing I used to tell guys all the time is about how I'm not going to allow who someone else is to define who I am. So if someone disrespects me, I'm not going to disrespect them back because now I'm letting them change me. And so, yeah, so that's the thing that guys have to keep in mind is that no, it doesn't matter. Maybe some women could use it to manipulate, but in many cases also when someone is crying or they're upset or they're being vulnerable, you can tell first of all what genuine vulnerability is. But in that case, even if someone is trying to manipulate you, it probably does mean that they are trying to get empathy or like they're in a situation that they do need something. You know what I'm saying? So just ignoring them or acting hostile is not the answer. Especially when you're doing it from a protection, you're trying to protect yourself standpoint. Then it's not the right answer.

Nicole [00:25:21]: Right? Yeah. And I think what you said actually is good for both men and women, focusing on yourself and who you are. Because I feel like, that's also what kind of like light bulb went off in my head when we were having our conversation. And like I've mentioned before, like, everybody has to kind of figure it out on their own. No matter what anybody says, including me right now or you, it might not resonate with them and really spark the change. But I think instead of both men and women focusing on being so independent and not needing each other.

John [00:25:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:57]: Instead focus on letting your ego go and only focus on what you can control, which is you, like how you act and how you present yourself. And actually like, if you're on our tick tock, I did a longer video about a lady who, you know or trying someone pretending to be a lady. I don't know. But how she was calling us, like, misogynistic and things like that when we were literally just talking about, if you want to be a feminine woman, be a feminine woman no matter what anybody says. Which is essentially what we're talking about again now, which brought it up. And it's just like people, especially on the Internet, think that, oh, you're like telling me what to do. There's. They're in this fear. Right. They're afraid of people even saying their own opinion. And that's really how the whole world has gotten. Right. Like if you read Brene Brown, she. I think it's Daring Greatly is the book. She talks about how if you have differing opinions now, you're the enemy. Enemy. That's how like everybody is turned into. Right. Like people used to be able to have opposing opinions and still be cordial towards each each other and that's completely gone out the window. Or like the person in our comments that did a video, they like blow things out of proportion and try to make it into this like, damaging thing.

John [00:27:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:27:21]: And trying to act like we're hurting people, but really it's just our opinion. And like we're saying now, like, focus on who you want to be and it doesn't matter if someone doesn't agree with your opinion. That shouldn't matter. It. It matters if they treat you poorly, telling you their opinion.

John [00:27:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:27:43]: Or attack you. You can choose not to interact with that person. But at the end of the day, like, we've just got so angry with each other. Like I've said in multiple episodes, men and women just are so against each other.

John [00:27:59]: Right.

Nicole [00:27:59]: And they're going more and more towards being independent when really we should just be focusing on ourselves internally rather than I can live without you, I can live without you.

John [00:28:10]: Right.

Nicole [00:28:10]: Because we don't want to live like that. Like people who have allowed the fear and the hurt to totally consume them do, because they just don't see a way out. But you do have. You always have a way out. You can change how you view your hurt and your fear to empower you rather than to make you hide in your shell and keep the world away from you.

John [00:28:34]: And here's a big hack for it. I think you can replace fear with curiosity. Right? Because it's the same thing like you said about people can't hold different opinions or, you know, it's like they're the enemy instead of reacting, you know, the way that you should react, which is like, oh, that's interesting. Why do you think that? Or what makes you think that? Right. And then. But unfortunately, like, you have to dig a little deeper because most people's reaction will be to explain why they think that based on what someone else told them. It's like, no, no. Why do you think that? I don't want to know what you heard, I want to know what you think. Right. But replacing fear with curiosity is good in a relationship when instead of the fear response, like, okay, I wonder what is going on here? I wonder, what is this person thinking? What are they? Many times we can replace a negative with curiosity instead. And then when you come with curiosity, genuine curiosity, you're met in a lot more. Less hostile fashion too. Right. Because sometimes it'd be a lot more receptive when you're genuinely curious. But yeah, it has come down to that. It's kind of funny too, because you're saying, did you see the response? I replied to someone who commented on our YouTube video episode about her husband.

Nicole [00:30:05]: They wanted your opinion.

John [00:30:07]: Right, Yeah, I saw that one about being vulnerable. It was what it was. And. And I think, yeah, well, anyway, I was going to read it, but. But, yeah, but it is an issue. But one of the things I talked about about that, and I think that it's worth mentioning too, for some of the women that are afraid of being vulnerable because they've had negative reactions, is that what I had told her was essentially that two things, main things, which is one is that not always because you're thinking that you're being vulnerable, are you truly being vulnerable? Usually you need to start off by being vulnerable about something that is actually damaging to you, not how you. Not something that you want a reaction from someone else. Right, right. So when you're coming to someone and you're telling them that you're feeling stressed or whatever, that might seem like you're being vulnerable, but you're not really hitting at the real fear. The real thing that is the underlying. That makes you soft. Right. And so. And then the second thing is that. And you might have to do that multiple times to build the trust of that, because a lot of times you might receive a negative reaction. And then the other part of it also is that if you have been not vulnerable to a man and have been harsh to him, and then you start being vulnerable. Just like I've talked about the flip side, right, where men will face this from women, but women also may face us from a man, where he now is going to react in anger to your vulnerability.

Nicole [00:31:46]: Right.

John [00:31:46]: Because he has all this stuff. He's been pushed down for such a long time that now it's coming out because he does feel safe, because he does feel relieved. And again, it shouldn't be coming out that way, but sometimes it does. And if you can still be vulnerable through that, which is obviously a very difficult thing to do, come out the other side of it now you've really created the trust that will allow him to start responding to your vulnerability in the way that you want to be responded to.

Nicole [00:32:20]: Yeah. And I just wanted to add, like, a little example because, you know, some people are very literal. Like, if you're saying, I'm stressed and that's not really vulnerable, the underneath of that might be like, I'm really stressed because I'm not getting all these things done, and it makes me feel bad about myself. I feel like I'm worthless when I don't get my work done. That's being vulnerable, right?

John [00:32:41]: That's being vulnerable. You're right.

Nicole [00:32:43]: So, like, if you forget that part, right? Then you're missing all of the actual, you know, which is scary because you're like, I don't want to admit that I feel worthless. But if that's what you feel, you're not always going to feel that way. And to be honest, the more you talk about it, the less. The less you'll actually feel that because you're also talking with someone that you care about, and they're going to be like that. That's not how you, you know, determine your worth. And then eventually you will believe those things because you're actually talking about your deep underlying, you know, fears or whatever you have, and you'll feel better about those things. Or they'll, you know, you won't even allow them to dictate how you feel. When you get stressed, you might be like, you know what? I'm stressed. Things are going on. But I can. I got this handled. Like, I can do this. Another thing I wanted to add, too, is that I think a lot of people are just acting in their human response to fear, which is fight or flight, right? Like that. Those are our human responses. But you are feeding into the fear, right? And that's why, too, if you don't come from a vulnerable place and just expose the fear right away, you either fall into the fight or flight, right? Or the freeze. You know, a lot of guys do the freeze where they're just like. A lot of women were talking about the comments. Like, I started crying, and he just stared at me, and that's the freeze, right? Like, he's afraid. You know, you're afraid. Like, there's just all this fear, right? And everybody's reacting different. Like, a lot of people do react to their fear with, like, fighting, right? And it's not like physical fighting. But, you know, that's why when you get into a vulnerable conversation or you think you're being vulnerable, where you're like, I'm stressed. And the guy's like, just get over it. You know? Then now you're in fight mode, right? Because you're like, I thought I was being vulnerable. And now he's, like, meeting me with this. And so you go into fight, and a lot of people go into fight. And a lot of people go into fight because they're hurt. And they'll just go straight to like, you hurt me. You did all these things, right? Because that's easier to do than being like, here's my fear. It's easier to attack and be like, you did this.

John [00:34:57]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:34:58]: Than to be like, I'm feeling this. And it's very. Like, I feel naked saying this to you right now. Right? Like, I get that it's scary, but like you've said in other episodes, you take all of the, like, things that can be held against you out of it when you just upfront say it and you own it.

John [00:35:18]: Exactly. And check this out. Like, in that instance where you say, I'm feeling stressed, right? Which, again, you're not saying the full vulnerability, but you think you're being vulnerable, maybe. And then he says, we'll just suck it up or just get over it. And now you have a negative reaction to that. Were you really even trying to be vulnerable or were you just wanting to, you know, I mean, like, to be truly vulnerable means to be truly vulnerable. It means to lay it out there. It means that when you get a negative reaction from your vulnerability, you don't then turn into fight mode, right? Because that means that you were never really authentically trying to be vulnerable from the first place, you know, I mean, and he just sniffed it out and just called you on it. And now you're upset because, you know, like, you weren't. The intent wasn't really, really there. Your heart wasn't fully into it. You're like, I'm going to try to be vulnerable 90%, right? And if I get a negative reaction, I'm going to fuck his shit up, right? That's what. Like, I'm just waiting for him. If you. If you don't react the way that I expect you to react, I'll be all over your ass, right? That's what was really going on mentally. Like a full breakdown. A full, like, you know, completely down on your knees, like, I'm gonna be vulnerable. Doesn't. Look, there's no backup plan. There's just, this is how I am raw. And he says, you need to just suck it up or get over it. And then. And then your reaction becomes, wow, that really hurts my feelings. And I really am sad about that. Or whatever is the true, authentic, vulnerable thing, not the. And that's why. And again, I could flip it and put it on men, the same thing when in a different type of scenario, but it comes from that 90%, not really, really being in that, right? It's like testing it to see if it works. It's the same thing with guys all the time when they're testing to see whether this is going to work. And if it's not going to work, then they have the backup plan, right? The normal reaction. It's like, oh, I'm going to validate her emotions. But if she doesn't immediately turn around and is happy about it, then fuck that bitch. It was like, yeah, like, I'm going to let her know that I just tried to validate her emotions and she's a stupid bitch. You know, it's like, you're ready holding that. That means you're not really actually there. You're not really actually doing the thing.

Nicole [00:37:38]: So, I mean, I agree with you and you explaining that I can see where men get confused if someone's like, I'm stressed. And then he's like, get over it. Because if you just say, I'm stressed, right? I mean, he really shouldn't say, just get over it anyway, right? It seems like you're trying to figure out a way to just get unstressed and you're not actually trying to have a deep emotional conversation. So like you didn't really set him up to talk about deep emotions by just being like, I'm stressed and I'm trying to be vulnerable with you. Right. Like to set him up for a deep emotional conversation would be to say, I'm stressed because I'm not getting the things done and it makes me feel bad about myself and that, you know, it makes my self esteem go down or my self worth or whatever, you know, that is a way to open up the conversation. And if he still says suck it up and get over it.

John [00:38:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:28]: Then you can be like, that really hurt. Like I'm trying to be vulnerable with you and you know, really talk about this and it hurt to feel like you're kind of dismissing it with what you're saying. And if he still is like just get over it, then you need to probably end the conversation at that point.

John [00:38:46]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:38:47]: And it could be like you said that he's just had to repress his own stuff for a while and maybe he will eventually get over it. But I did want to ask you because some women said that and women, and like women do this to men as well too. So I'm not saying it just goes one way. But if someone is trying to be vulnerable and is actually truly being vulnerable and those things get held against them or they're not ever met, no matter how long the time's gone on with someone trying to actually empathize with them, what do you think should happen?

John [00:39:22]: Like what, what should they do in that case?

Nicole [00:39:24]: A lot of women were like, I'm vulnerable and he just uses it against me later.

John [00:39:30]: Feels like if you say that, then you're not vulnerable. Right. Not truly at the bottom vulnerable. Right. Because again, it's like the, the amount. Again, I'm not saying that it's not necessarily correct. I'm saying the thinking that you would say that and put it into a comment means that probably initially the initial vulnerability wasn't all in 100% vulnerable. Right. Because it was like, let me see what he does. But I expect already that he's not gonna respond to this correctly. Right. When you have that expectation on someone ahead of time, then it's not good. Because again, I think part of it is just like you said, is it's about focusing on yourself. It doesn't really matter how he responds. You have a certain amount of pride in yourself in being that. I don't allow people to not allow me to be vulnerable. I'm going to be myself and who I am and who I want to Express myself as regardless of how the reaction is because I'm not waiting for a reaction and I'm not doing this for a reaction. And when you have that mindset, then it doesn't, then the question answers itself. Because if you have that mindset, number one, you're probably going to get different responses than what you're getting. Right. And number two, if you're not, you already know what to do. Like you will, you will know because you won't be coming from a place of fear or insecurity. You'll be coming from a place of knowing who you are and what, what you're doing and what you represent and, and it won't be. You won't have to answer that question. You see what I'm saying? Because you already know the answer.

Nicole [00:41:07]: Yeah, I think you're right that, that what you just explained is the majority. But I do want to say that there probably are some women still too who are saying like, this makes me have like lower self worth. Or they are being vulnerable and they are saying the things and men are using those against them, the things that they bring up. Like, well, you don't even have any confidence in yourself or like, or you're. That's what I'm talking more about. And I'm like, I don't think it's a majority, but I do think it still happens. And so I guess based on your answer that you just gave to, it would be knowing that you, like, you are being vulnerable and you should have respect for yourself and leave the situation after enough time. Like, that's what I would think would be if someone's using your most vulnerable moments against you or being like, you know, just like, if you came to me and you were like, when this happens, I feel like less of a man. And then we got in an argument and I was like, well, you already feel less of a man. That's what I feel like some of these women are talking about being used against them. Right. Like, and so that's more what I was. I do agree, like I said, I'm glad you explained what you explained because I do think it's not black and white like that, but there are some extreme versions like I just mentioned. And I think people need to know the best way to handle those things.

John [00:42:37]: And again, let the person, no one can use something against you. And if you allow them to. Right. Because then they can't actually be using it. So even in the argument later, he's like, well, you have low self worth anyway. And then you just Say you're right.

Nicole [00:42:53]: Which I agree with that, but it hurts to hear, of course, the person that you're closest with say that. And so you're right, but let the.

John [00:43:01]: But take the fight out of the, you know what I'm saying, by continuing to be who you are. And then look, if you're, if, if you're doing that right. And this is why I'm saying this, I'm not saying this because I'm trying to be heartless or trying to, like, I would give men completely different advice, right? In, in the sense that I would tell them it doesn't matter if she's like you, you be empathetic no matter what and validate and listen to her emotions. But the reason why I'm saying this, right, to women is because, look, if you're doing this and you're not letting use it against you because you're not putting up a fight or a resistance to it and not trying to protect yourself, then you're not going to need anyone to answer the question of what. Like, if, if you're literally just being completely 100% raw and not trying to protect yourself in any way and you're just getting hurt, you already know what to do. Like, and you won't have any, you won't need any second opinion on it because you will know 100% what to do. You don't like this and you don't want to be where you don't, where you're not liked and you're not. Right. It's like the reason why there's a debate about it or why there needs to be an opinion is because you're not 100% doing the thing to know for sure. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I feel like there might be some. But if you're 100% not protecting yourself, just being 100 vulnerable, and you're getting reactions like that, which again, the chance of you getting reactions like that are much less. I mean, he really, that's why I said in that video, he, you really do have to be an evil man or a bad man. Like at that point, you know that this man is an evil man, he is a bad man.

Nicole [00:44:40]: Continues to do.

John [00:44:41]: Exactly. Because you're not showing any kind, you're not giving anything to fight against, right? It's just abuse at that point, right? Because if I completely come to you defenseless, right, And I talk to you and then you beat up on me and I still say defenseless, I don't try to protect myself at all right. And then later, in a different conversation, you beat up on me some more. And again, I'm not protecting myself, and I'm not disagreeing with you about, like, I'm letting you do as kick me as much as you're going to kick me when I'm down. That's abuse at that point. Like, there's no question in your mind about it. When you fight back, that's when you start to question, well, did I do something wrong? Did I like. But when you're just like, no, I'm gonna. That's why I'm giving this advice is. Because then it makes it crystal clear. And you don't ever have to waste another minute or another discussion or argument, because you already know. But as long as you're still putting up that resistance and thinking that you're. First of all, you're not gonna change them that way. But as long as you're still doing that, you're not gonna know in your heart for absolute sure that you're being abused. You know what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:45:44]: So, yeah, no, I think that's a good way to describe it. I think it's kind of hard, too, because like you said, there might be, like, anger coming up for him when you start actually being vulnerable or, like, you know, he hasn't felt like he can be vulnerable, or there might be some things that come up in the beginning, but I do think if you're doing, like you said, after a while, you do either see a change in that person or. And in your relationship, or you don't. And it's just hard because I know even the women who are with men who don't do this, you know, like, don't. They're actual vulnerable with. And they're still met with, like, dismissive, avoidant behavior.

John [00:46:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:46:30]: Then it's like, you know, you don't want to have to end your marriage or something like that, but you do have to accept a person for who they are.

John [00:46:39]: Right. But you will have the highest amount of influence if you really are down on your knees, like, really vulnerable. Like, look, and I'm not just saying this because, like we just said, I literally had a guy start a conversation with me, with you. You, you know, you know, word. I'm not gonna say that word on this podcast, but you never even been in a fight, Right? And I responded with vulnerability. I did not try to fight him. I did not try. And, like, I didn't. I didn't act like a coward either. But. But that vulnerability and. And lack of Defensiveness and not trying to protect myself against his harsh comments is what changed. So he's already coming more very, very hostile. So what I'm saying is that, yeah, a lot of women are saying, yeah, I'm doing this, but then the guy's reacting hostilely, which, again.

Nicole [00:47:33]: Or dismissive.

John [00:47:34]: Or dismissive. But if you're really, really doing this right, then there's only two choices. One, you're going to convert him. He's not going to. He's going to respond to that because he can't help it. Again, remember, this guy came to me, fuck you, blah, blah, blah, right? And then I converted him. So you're either going to convert him or the dude is just, are you. Or he's evil. He's bad news. He's like, get. Get out of there. Like, if it's. If you're really, really, really there and he's not responding to that, that's all the information that you need to know, right? Because that's a. He doesn't have a heart, you know, He's. You know, what I'm saying is that it's. It's not a reachable one. He's. He's twisted beyond what you can.

Nicole [00:48:17]: What you can do, or vice versa. I mean, there's plenty of women, too, who, like, these guys, talk about they are manipulative. Like, they do act a certain way, and then they try to cry to get back in good graces, and they have no intention of changing anything, you know, so it's not just a guy thing. Like, everybody needs to take about accountability. And that's why we're talking about that it's better to focus on you and what you can change inside of yourself, Right. Rather than other people. But.

John [00:48:47]: And guys are used to testing other guys, too. Let me add this point, right? If I act. If I walk up to another guy and I'm like, acting like I'm tough, right? I'm like, I'll kick your ass, right? He's gonna come. The first thing he's gonna do is get up in my face, right? That's what he's gonna do. He's gonna get closer in my face and look at me directly in the eyes and not blink. You've seen guys do this before where they get up in their face.

Nicole [00:49:11]: Yeah. They almost look like they're gonna kiss.

John [00:49:13]: Right? Right. Exactly. He's testing to see, am I really confused, right? He's gonna see what is. Is it real when a woman is acting vulnerable? Many times it's the same thing. It's like, are you really, like, if. If I say something, are you suddenly gonna go into fight mode? And you weren't even really like. Because if you're really, really vulnerable, I can't shake you out of it. I'm not gonna say something like that. Vulnerability is vulnerable. You know what I'm saying? So again, I'm not saying that's right. I'm not saying a guy should be tested. I'm saying when a woman is being vulnerable or crying or something, that a guy should be like, are you really? Let's see how she. I'm not saying that he should be doing it. I'm just saying that it is. Oftentimes when you suspect that it's not real, that's what the reaction is. You're testing it. Because the reason why the guy gets up in your face is because he suspects it's not real. If he thought that you were really, really serious for. So you wouldn't even say, I'm gonna kick your ass. You wouldn't need to. You just give him a look. And he would be right because he knows you mean business. But if he doubts that you mean business, he's gonna test. He's gonna get in your face and see. And it's the same type of thing. If a guy's feeling like, oh, she's not really being vulnerable. She's just, like, saying this. But I know that if I don't react a certain way, she's gonna flip the other way. Then it's more likely that he is going to test that situation. You see what I'm saying?

Nicole [00:50:44]: Yeah, Makes sense. But, yeah, it's just. It's complicated because everybody, like I said in the beginning, has things that they've personally went through. So the fear is valid.

John [00:50:57]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:50:58]: But just looking at some of your videos that have gone viral, it's like.

John [00:51:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:51:03]: Or like, more viral, I guess I should say is it's just sad to see. And I mean, we already see what the guys being like, marriage isn't even worth it. Right. Like, they're so deep in the fear that they're. They're writing off marriage already.

John [00:51:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:51:19]: And you know, then women have their own fears, you know, either about how they've been treated by men or, you know, not being good enough on their own and needing to act independent and, like, they don't need anybody. And it's just like. It's so full of fear that they're just allowing to control their lives without even realizing it. Because I was doing the same thing right like, and they think it comes from a place of strength, like you said. Like, they. That's what they think. Like, these men being like, I'm never going to get married, they think they're like, oh, I don't need marriage. I don't need a partner. I don't need half my stuff taken away. And women are like, you know, I don't need a man. I can do it all my. Like, it's all out of fear, and it's all this strength that, like.

John [00:52:06]: Right.

Nicole [00:52:07]: Yes, you have. But I think once people really get it, and like I said, you have to kind of get it on your own, no matter what anybody says. Once you really get that you're living from a place of fear, you almost feel more strong and more powerful than if you're guarding yourself, if that makes sense. Because now you're, like, out in the open, knowing that nothing can really hurt you because you're just feeling it and you're putting it out there. And like you said, it can't be used against you. Like, it does still hurt if the person you're vulnerable with that you really care about is throwing it back in your face. But instead of getting angry at that or, like, whatever emotion might come up, just. Just be vulnerable about that. Like, come. Like, come at it with just more vulnerability. Right? So it's like, the second that you realize that you don't have to let fear dictate your life in whatever way that it is dictating your life, you feel a lot stronger, you feel a lot better. Like you said, things feel lighter, you know, like, and I feel lighter. I feel like I don't have to carry this steel wall around me at all times. You know what I mean? So. And like I said, a lot of it, too, subconscious, like.

John [00:53:27]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:53:29]: So digging into yourself and, like, listening to what your partner's been talking about that might be bothering them that you're doing, and instead of just taking it personally and allowing that fear and that, like, hurt to just be at the forefront. Like, really think about, okay, well, why do I act this way? Or, like, where does this come from? Or, like, how did I start doing this? How did this fear get here? How did I start allowing that to. To drive me than other things? Right? And that's when you can really have, like, that epiphany moment and then be like, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, I've lived like this for too long. And the second you are actually vulnerable, like you said, like, truly vulnerable, like, really lay it all out there. Like you said, it does take a lot of the air out of the tires a lot of the time. And then when you realize the response is different, rather than fighting everybody or running away from hard conversations, then you're like, oh, wow. Like, this is. This is definitely a better way to live.

John [00:54:29]: Exactly.

Nicole [00:54:29]: Like facing the fear head on.

John [00:54:31]: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And. Yeah. And, you know, guys obviously don't escape from this either, even though what I was saying about women. But as a man, you have to be vulnerable as well, right? It's a different. It looks a little different because women are feminine and soft and so their vulnerability looks a little bit different. But as a man, even like I said with that conversation, I was vulnerable with that guy. Right. He became a friend of mine. Right. So you've got to be able to do that, too. And again, the same thing that's preventing you from doing it is the fear. And a lot of guys were trying to posture in the comments. They're like, oh, yeah, if a woman's crying, I don't care. I'll just. I'm not gonna. Right? They're just trying to appear as tough, right? Which is the opposite of being vulnerable. You know what I'm saying? Like, when you posture yourself like that, you're not gaining anything. But when you see that there is no such thing as loss and you cannot lose, then you have nothing to hold on to. Then the ego disappears and you can be vulnerable because it's only when you're counting things as loss.

Nicole [00:55:41]: Right?

John [00:55:41]: Right. And even, you know, when, like you were saying, you know, if you are in a relationship, if you know the quality of your partner, right. You're not deciding it in a minute.

Nicole [00:55:52]: Right.

John [00:55:52]: Whatever's happening right now, that's not you. You know them better than the minute that just transpired. Right? So if you're basing it off of that last minute or last five minutes, that's not.

Nicole [00:56:06]: Not accurate.

John [00:56:07]: Instead.

Nicole [00:56:08]: Yeah.

John [00:56:09]: Instead of realize that they're a person with flaws just like you are and whatever, and give them the grace and continue to be vulnerable, knowing that they're going through something, they're messing up in some way, that's okay. You know, I mean, it's a hard. I mean, yeah, obviously this is easy to say, right. But harder to do in practice when you're in that moment. But the more that we can all surrender, right? The better, better man and woman. Right. Then the better off we are as partners. And. And that we create so much resistance in our own lives by fighting, right? Anyone? Every time we fight instead of acceptance. Acceptance, it creates peace, you know?

Nicole [00:56:52]: Well, the last little thing I want to say is I feel like everybody is just afraid to look weak, which they think is what vulnerability is. Right. But when you actually are vulnerable, you realize that's not true. Like, that's the whole thing is, like, people don't want to look weak. Women don't want to look weak. Men don't want to look weak. That's why men are like ears simp when you do nice things. Or, you know, women are like, how could you, like, listen to a man? Like, they're all afraid. They're all afraid to look weak. But the thing is, we're all not weak. We're all human beings. And the more that you're, like, trying to show how strong you are, the more you are just going to end up on your own. Because nobody wants to be with somebody that is just hiding from their fears and just trying to overpower it with trying to look strong. Like, we all have faults, right? And the second that we really acknowledge that and stop being afraid to let other people know that we have things that are wrong with us or fears or, you know, things like that, then the more than we can put them out there, the more people can relate to us. Because behind closed doors, everybody has fears and they have things that they do wrong. They just don't want to present them to the world. Then everybody will have a lot more empathy for each other.

John [00:58:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:12]: Like, if they really understood that. And that's also too, why we started this, is because, like, we come on here and we talk about the ways that we mess up. It's not, you know, easy to do. It's very vulnerable. It's going on the Internet for who knows who to see, you know, but at the end of the day, because.

John [00:58:28]: We could just lie, you know, but we don't.

Nicole [00:58:30]: So at the end of the day, there's people watching this and being like, wow, yeah, I've been through that. So, you know, I'm just like them, you know, like, they go through the same things and, like, it just. It would be a lot better way to live. And again, it's like not allowing that fear of being, quote, weak. You know, there's strength in vulnerability. Like, we talked about that whole episode.

John [00:58:54]: Like, vulnerability makes you invulnerable, right?

Nicole [00:58:58]: Yeah. You're like, invincible.

John [00:58:59]: Yeah, exactly.

Nicole [00:59:00]: And so I think if more people leaned on their vulnerability and just downright said how they're feeling in the vulnerable way, you know, like, this makes me feel, you know, Like, I don't mean as much as a person. Like, yeah, it's scary to say that because you think someone else is going to be like, well, you don't even think you're worth anything as a person. It's like, okay, like, I. I admitted that. Like, what are you gonna do with that? Like you said, like, it takes the wind out of it. So it's like, just do the scary thing.

John [00:59:32]: Right.

Nicole [00:59:33]: Because it becomes less and less scary, and then you realize you don't even have that fear anymore, and it's not controlling you.

John [00:59:40]: Right, exactly. Yeah. No, I agree. 100. It's. The root of it is. Is the fear.

Nicole [00:59:47]: That's true. All right, well, what is our thing for the week?

John [00:59:52]: That's my. We got nothing.

Nicole [00:59:59]: That's probably because we had the extreme ones that we already talked about, which that episode came out today where we were talking about how. Oh, yeah, yeah, we had a fight.

John [01:00:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:10]: And so. Or long discussion and. But like you've said, things have definitely felt lighter. They felt better. Like, I feel like if something did come up, it would be a different experience for us as well, too, so.

John [01:00:25]: And I felt lighter, too. Just like, I'm not. You know, there's. There's nothing for me to be upset about. You know, I mean, I think many times in the past, too, maybe I was more upset, and I wasn't really upset about things you. You did or didn't do. It's more about your reaction to them.

Nicole [01:00:46]: Right.

John [01:00:46]: And that. That, you know, but that is the thing. But now it's like they're. They're. That doesn't exist. And so there's nothing to be upset about. It's like.

Nicole [01:00:55]: But that's something good to talk about because we talk a lot. Like, we communicate. Yeah, a lot. And still, you can even sit here and admit that maybe the whole time it was how I was not communicating properly or, you know, holding us back. And, like, the old me would have never been able to admit that out loud. Right. I would have beat myself up if you had told me that it was really me. You know, you couldn't get through to me.

John [01:01:24]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:25]: Like, so just the fact that I can sit here and hear that and not internally be like, nicole, you suck. You know, like, he hates you deep down is a good thing. And I recently talked with one of my friends, and she's. It's funny because, yeah, she's going through a lot of the similar feelings that I was having. And I could tell her, you know, again, I can't make her have that epiphany moment. But I could tell her ways to help her get to that epiphany moment, right? Where so she'll get out of her own way, she'll stop having the fear, because she was saying this same thing that she's like, you know, every time my fiance says something, I'm like, take it personally. And I'm like, girl, I was there. I was there. But. And there is something, too, that's nice about even acknowledging the way that you messed up and then hearing you say, like, maybe this whole time it was just that I couldn't talk to you because, like, I felt like I was doing the right things. Right. But the thing I wasn't actually doing was allowing you to effectively communicate with me. And so that one thing kind of took away some of the other things, which. I'm not saying that that will always happen, but sometimes, too, you don't even know what the real root of the problem is until you get to a point where you've talked about it so many times that you figure it out. You both figure it out.

John [01:02:49]: Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that. And that's. I mean, that's a great example. Just with the way that you took that about me saying that is. It's. That's why I feel lighter, is because I can say something like that, which. Which is never, ever meant to hurt you or to come down on you. It's just to share my truth. Right.

Nicole [01:03:11]: Well, I don't take it personally anymore because I owned up to that.

John [01:03:13]: Right?

Nicole [01:03:14]: Like, I. I saw that I was doing that. I had that moment where I was like, I am standing in my own way.

John [01:03:20]: Right.

Nicole [01:03:21]: And so you saying that doesn't trigger anything within me because I owned up to it. Like, I know that that's what was happening. Right? Like, I feel different. You feel different. So that's why I wanted to talk about the whole thing because, like, it's what I've been going through recently and, like, realized. And then seeing all those comments, it's like just fear everywhere. Like, exactly.

John [01:03:42]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:42]: It's. It's hate, you know, like, not hate, hate, but, like, some of it comes off as hate, but it's really fear. Like, fear is hate.

John [01:03:50]: That's is here. Exactly.

Nicole [01:03:51]: Yeah. So, like, both men and women need to realize what fear's doing to their lives. Because the second you do, the second you will feel lighter, the second it takes, like you said, like, you could say whatever you need to say to me. I know also, too, that you'll do it respectfully. And I know that sometimes it is hard to deal with people who are being disrespectful saying things to you, but it's. It's just not the same as it was. Like, I got out of my own way.

John [01:04:19]: It's a huge difference. Yeah. Because it. Like. And just to say that, like, we communicated all the time.

Nicole [01:04:25]: Right.

John [01:04:25]: Like, our relationship really was better than perfect. Like, we got along 99% of the time just holding our. Holding hands all the time, you know, just happy, sex, everything. Right. But. But what was difficult for me was that we could talk so much about all the positive stuff, but I felt like I could never talk about any negative with you. And so that just, you know, that. And that made it hard for me to be as close as I could be and as open, like, even. Right. Like, I don't have to watch what I'm saying right now in this moment. And that takes the burden. Like, a weight is lifted off of me because I know that what I'm saying right now, you're taking that well because you know that it's. We're just having communication. I understand. Like, you get me. You understand. Right. Whereas before, I might have to be like, oh, I don't know if I should say that, because then that's going to lead to this and that, you know, it's like. But now it's like, it's. It's freeing and it creates a deeper communication that you know.

Nicole [01:05:28]: Right. Which I know you're not saying this, but you should keep in mind the things that you say to your partner. I know you're not saying that, but, yeah, I think it is important because not even from a stance of, like, walking on eggshells, like, no one should be walking on eggshells, but from a stance of, like, you love this person. Like, even if you're upset, you don't want to hurt this person.

John [01:05:50]: Right.

Nicole [01:05:50]: And so, yeah, I know that's not what you mean necessarily. I know you mean the eggshells thing, but, yeah. Just to throw out there, because, you know, people should care about how they talk to the people they care about.

John [01:06:01]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:06:01]: Even if you're upset.

John [01:06:03]: But. Yeah. But, yeah. No, I've been really, like, you've done an amazing job, and it takes a lot, like I said last episode, for you to come on and admit the things that were holding you back. I make plenty of mistakes myself, which we've talked about on the Fog, and I will make plenty of mistakes in the future. But, yeah, it takes a lot to do that and it has made a huge impact. Like I said, I do feel lighter and it's good.

Nicole [01:06:33]: Yeah.

John [01:06:34]: All right, well, we don't have any new.

Nicole [01:06:36]: Send us some reviews, please.

John [01:06:39]: Yeah, send us some. Some reviews. Let us know that you're.

Nicole [01:06:42]: Maybe we need to say it in the beginning because maybe. Do you think people get to the end? Some people.

John [01:06:47]: The people that count.

Nicole [01:06:49]: Maybe we should do both beginning of turn into one of those YouTubers like, like and subscribe and write reviews.

John [01:06:57]: Yeah, but yeah, and then if you want, if you're interested in being on the podcast, like I said, if you are in San Diego or going to be in San Diego, because we want to do it in person. No Zoom Live.

Nicole [01:07:11]: Well, previously recorded.

John [01:07:13]: Yeah, previously recorded, but just email us@betterthanperfectpodcastmail.com and yeah, I think that's. That's it for this week.

Nicole [01:07:24]: Yeah.

John [01:07:24]: All right.

Nicole [01:07:26]: Through every fault we find our way.