John: The guy's like, "I work hard, I do this, I got you flowers." So the woman's like, "I don't want your gifts. I don't want you to clean my car. I want you to spend time with me, to act like you actually care." That's most women's chief complaint, right? Which, that's a good way to most men's chief complaint. "I don't care that you're cleaning the house, or that you did, or that you got me some stuff when you went to the store, or that you're telling me that you love me. Like, wear something sexy and show me." You know, beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole: Hey, you haven't messed up. I mean, the beginning part, you just got tongue-tied. You didn't mess it up. Getting professional, getting ingrained for this job that I don't get paid for. The job that you pay to have. It's a lifestyle.

John: Yeah, I mean, people think we're making a lot of money off of the podcast, do they?

Nicole: They do, 'cause they comment. They're like, "Oh, you're just trying to make money."

John: Yeah, yeah. It's like, but we're not selling anything. We've made what, uh, we just got to where like if our video gets views, monetization on YouTube.

Nicole: Yeah, uh, we made nine whole dollars, guys.

John: Yeah, so doing this for a lot of episodes and made nine whole dollars. That's how you know we're legit. But yeah, we were talking about this the other night, actually. And it's like, you know, we're just trying to help people. Like, it is nice, obviously, and any influencer, person doing a podcast or something, would feel good making money off of helping people. But there is a line. There's a fine line, 'cause we were reading a book. I don't know if I should say the book title or not.

Nicole: 'Cause it's a good book, but yeah, it is too salesy.

John: Yeah, yeah. And like I just said, I get that she's discovered this wisdom to help people, but at the same time, the book pushes her coaching and becoming a coach with her so much that it's a little off-putting. And like I told you, I would probably stop reading the book if I wasn't the type of person that finishes a book no matter what.

Nicole: Yeah, but it's complicated, 'cause you know, when we take the time to do stuff like this.

John: If one day someone was like, or we again, if there was like a brand, it would have to go with what we believe in, obviously, because we're not sellouts. But something that we use. I'm sure other people too notice other influencers and stuff like that who start just promoting anything to make money. And I get people need to make a living, but it takes away from the authenticity of helping people sometimes.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. There's a balance. It's hard because it's like, you know, I talk about it all the time in my coaching, the struggle between the artist and the entrepreneur. The artist just wants to make the art, but you can be a starving artist if you just make the art. The entrepreneur just wants to, what, what are people going to buy, you know? Let me just sell them whatever they're going to buy. And there's like a balance between the two because you can't be all one or all the other.

John: Right, but exactly. You want to be just the artist. I mean, right now we are just the artists with our $9.

Nicole: Yeah, that's true. So, and that's, I mean, we didn't start this to make money. We started it to help people. So, yeah, luckily we do have you who brings home the bread, so that this is something that we don't have to push onto people and can have people feel like this is authentic and real because that's what it is, and that's what we want it to be. But I didn't know that the beginning of this would turn all into that. But, and that you would choke on liquid death in front of us. But no, we could also do like a sponsorship model at some point too, where like if people sponsor the podcast as opposed to, you know, I mean, so it's run by donation type of thing to cover the cost of the podcast 'cause the podcast is not cheap, you know, about two grand a month or so to.

Nicole: That's 'cause we're in this fancy place. But, and we do the clips and stuff. Like, we got to come see Rodrigo and our Clips Channel, you know. So, there's like people to pay for all that stuff. But it's an investment.

John: Yeah, it's worth it for the knowledge that people are getting and, yeah, spreading that. But not to toot our own horn or anything. But yeah, so any other updates?

Nicole: John wanted my parents to come on the podcast 'cause in town. Well, they won't be by the time this comes out. But my mom, she came on my podcast I had that I was just doing out of my apartment a long time ago.

John: Yeah, and that was the most popular episode I ever did. I have no idea why. Like, I mean, my mom didn't even really want to be on it. But I think it was around COVID when she was like stuck with me, and so I like had her get on there. But I don't know why people liked that one so much.

Nicole: Well, maybe next. They're still going to be here next Friday, right?

John: Yeah, so we can convince them. I know your dad will want to do it. But we'll see. We'll see if they end up on here. But if any of you guys come for my parents, just know, yeah, this wouldn't be a good idea. I'm one of those people that are like nice until you try to come for somebody that I care about. Then the gloves come off.

Nicole: Yeah. But yeah, also, I mean, while we're at it, if you're local in San Diego. Well, two things. One, if you're local in San Diego and you have a podcast or something and you talk about relationships or something related, then send us an email. We'll, and we're creative. We could maybe make it work.

John: Yeah, if there's something that, if it's like, because we're only recording in person's podcast because we have a lot of people that ask to be on the podcast, but they're not in person. And then also, if you're local in San Diego.

Nicole: Or you're going to be in San Diego and you want some relationship coaching live on the podcast for everyone to see, then yeah, contact us.

John: Yeah, like what we're talking about. Come get your time on the Better Than Perfect podcast. Gmail.com or is it better than perfect? I think it's better than perfect podcast at gmail.com. Good question. I don't know.

Nicole: Or you could, yeah, you could message us on TikTok or Instagram. I think it, I think it is better than perfect. We're obviously not getting a lot of emails.

John: Yeah, no, we get some email, you know, just not a lot of. But yeah, you know, let me see. What is, I mean, we dabbled with the idea of a call-in show too at some point, but that would have to be probably more live. But I guess it wouldn't have to be. Oh, that's weird. I thought I had. Oh yeah, better than perfect podcast at gmail.

John: .com it is. Okay, so yeah, hit us up. Alright, what do we got for today? You got the today episode. The episode is going to be about Love Languages.

Nicole: And John wants to quiz me on Love Languages. I sent him a screenshot just to make sure we got them all down, but they are quality time, words of affirmation, physical touch, gift-giving, and acts of service. That should be... I think that's it.

John: Yeah, you got it. And yeah, so I don't know where we want to start, but I guess I definitely wanted to ask you because I'm curious. I feel like we've talked about this, but I haven't asked you, asked you. But yeah, do you think they're real? Do you think they matter? Do you think they change? Basically, what do you think of them?

Nicole: Well, I mean, I guess I'll give you my philosophical answer, which is that, well, everything is a model, right? So, what I mean by model is there's no accurate representation of really anything in the universe. It's all a model, just like, you know, we're going real deep. Yeah, we're going deep. We're going philosophy 100 miles per hour. So just like an atom, right? You've seen the pictures of an atom, right, with the nucleus and then the electrons orbiting around. Well, that's actually the old model of an atom. It doesn't actually look like that, right? The space between electrons and the nucleus is way bigger than just the little orbit. It's a huge amount. But then there's like another model, like the electron cloud model, which shows like, maybe you see in the later textbooks, maybe high school textbooks, right? And it's like a cloud. It's not even showing it like circling because that takes into effect quantum mechanics. And anyway, it's just a model. It's all just an approximation of the thing. So, a map is a model, right, of the Earth or, you know, where you're going. So, the love languages are a model. They're not... it's not like there's just five love languages. These are the five things that it just has to be one of these ways. It's just a way of kind of grouping things together that generally fit, that you could generally say that you a way talk about. I don't think I've read the book.

Nicole: You thought I did?

John: No, I just thinking. Okay, I thought you would have read the book. As everyone clicks off of this, they're like, "Oh, they're gonna talk about love language. They haven't read the book about. They're just gonna talk about what they think about love languages." I mean, right, it comes up in enough other books and topics, right? But it's like, also, do you need to read the book? Like, people know enough about it. I get it probably goes more in depth, but yeah, I don't think we need to throw out the whole episode because we didn't read the books. But yeah, so it's a model. That's what I think, is that it's just like a lot of things. People take sometimes models too seriously, right? Even like, I'm gonna catch them for this one, but introversion, introverts, and extroverts doesn't really exist. It's a model for classifying things to make it a little easier to talk about things. To say, "Okay, this person's introverted. This person's extroverted." Doesn't really... humans aren't really that black and white, right? There's no, "This person's introvert. This person's extrovert," right? You know, people get upset when I say this, but it's because it's a model. It's not the... but you have to have models in order to be able to look at things or talk about things, right, that are close enough approximations. So, you think everybody has some version of all of them, is that what you're saying?

Nicole: And then, well, I mean, they do. When you do like the quizzes online, I haven't taken a quiz, yeah, they like rank them. So like, and normally you have some percentage of all of them. So, I would agree with that, right? But it's like, so what you're saying though is that people just go based off of their top one and then say like, "This is my love language," when it's a whatever combination of all of them.

John: Well, I think it's also... I think it changes over time. I think it's more of usually what a person's lacking the most in terms of validation, right? So, have that love, right? I think that can change over time. But I do think that, you know, to some degree, some people find some more meaningful. Do you think...

Nicole: Changes? Or do you think maybe it gets fulfilled and then it moves on to the next thing?

John: Yeah, I mean, yeah, however you want to say it. I think it's pretty much the same idea.

Nicole: Well, I have a philosophy.

John: Okay, give me your philosophy.

Nicole: I feel like, okay, a majority of men's top love language is physical touch. And obviously, it's because they enjoy other physical activities. But like, I feel like if you polled 100 men, right, 98 of them, their top one would be physical touch.

John: Yeah, I mean, some guys will lie because they don't want to just be grouped into it, but yeah, you're right. So, but here's the thing about it, alright? And this is a different topic for a different podcast episode that I've been wanting to do, which we'll eventually do, which is that I think a lot of modern psychology and therapy can be rewritten in terms of masculinity and femininity, right? And I think this is also one of them because, you know, you've heard me talk about with attachment theory, right? Anxious attachment is just feminine, and avoiding attachment is just masculine. Now, they're the wrong versions of feminine and masculine, but they're those attributes, right? And usually, it does fall that women have the anxious attachment, and men have the avoidant attachment, right? So, I think the same thing with Love Languages is that it's... you could say Love Languages, or you can say, "Okay, this is how men feel loved. This is how women feel loved." And you're going to find some variation, but I think the... women's do vary more than men's though. And I want to ask you because I think your top one's physical touch, isn't it?

Nicole: I mean, you're a guy, so...

John: Well, I mean, let's just... let me just think about, right? Okay, I mean, physical touch, right, words of affirmation, that's like your second...

Nicole: No, I'm just trying to think like, oh, of them, like, do I care about that? Right, yeah, yeah, I mean, there that is it. Uh, what's the other one? Gifts? Yeah, nah, but... yeah, yeah, I don't care about gifts. Um, acts of service, not so much. Quality time, yeah, okay, yeah, okay.

Nicole: So, as someone who literally, my last one whenever I take a quiz is physical touch. So, but I'm thinking of it, and I feel like guys' love language version of physical touch is also different than women's love language of physical touch. 'Cause I feel like, right, women more like want hugs and kisses and like holding their hand, and like, I'm not saying guys don't want that, but I feel like typically they want more of like, oh, she touches my arm, and she like, I don't know, more like trying to set the mood for the other thing that they want, you know what I mean?

John: Would you say that that's true?

Nicole: I think that's true, but I mean, we talked about...

John: In some other episodes, we've discussed that a woman showing desire for a man is what makes him feel good. So, it's more about desiring touching. I think men want more than just a hug. I'm not saying men don't want a hug, but I feel like that would cater more towards a woman whose number one love language is physical touch. There are women for whom physical touch is their main love language, but I don't feel like theirs is necessarily more sexual, as I feel like men's is.

Nicole: Yeah, that's an interesting distinction. I would agree with that. And I agree with you that what your love language is has to do with how you grew up and maybe something you were lacking that made you feel loved. As kids, we're not going to say, "Hey Mom, Dad, quality time is my love language. Can you hang out with me?" So, I feel like that's where it stems from. And I don't know if my physical touch being so low is because I didn't come from a family that gave a lot of hugs. Would it be different if I had? That's where it's interesting. I think the psychology behind it is interesting. We'll have to read the book or something to figure it out. But there's no harm in dissecting it the way we have, even though some people might say, "You didn't even read the book. I'm not going to watch this." Well, you didn't need to comment then. But it's just interesting to think about. Like I said, I've always felt like when you ask a guy, majority of the time, they're like physical touch. And to me, when I think about it, I don't see some guy being like, "Hug me, hug me." For the physical touch, it's more like he feels loved when he feels desired, which would be like a woman touching your arm or being like, "You're so strong," or something, or sitting next to you and playing with your hair. What do you guys like about the physical touch?

John: Yeah, I mean, hugging and kissing are in there as well. I'm not saying they don't want it at all. But it's anything that indicates a certain amount of sexual desire. That's because it's sort of the way that men generally value themselves in the hierarchy, if they're honest. Most guys are not honest about that. Even I was just talking with Nelle, the captain Sinbad, because we were looking at some of his videos on a coaching call we were doing. We were trying to get to the bottom of why these videos are doing well, what it is that our audience, or really just men in general, are looking for. It came down to things that validate men's status, like, "Am I attractive to women? Am I perceived as valuable to the opposite sex?" That's what tends to draw most guys. So, it makes sense that words of affirmation would be next because that goes with the respect thing. A man wants to hear that you respect him, that you admire his thoughts, decisions, and wisdom.

Nicole: Quality time is my top one. And we've talked about quality time. Since we're together all the time, that's fulfilled. I never have a moment where I'm like, "I need more quality time," except when you're working. But that's also a time where I'm like, "Nicole, get a grip. You're going to see him in a little bit. It's fine." But again, if I reflect on my own self, my parents both worked to support our family and made sure my brother and I had everything we wanted as kids. But to do that, they had to work a lot. So, if I look back and I'm honest, I missed spending time with them. It makes sense to me that quality time is important because that is what I wanted that I couldn't necessarily have as a kid. And I'm not trying to talk poorly about my parents. They did all this, and I'm sure they realized they had to sacrifice in some area to get to that point. But just saying, I feel like if people reflect on where they're at, especially more women, I guess, because like I said, I do feel like a majority of men are looking for that physical touch to fulfill their need for desire now. But if you look at a lot of women's love languages, it's very varied. So, I feel like if you're a woman, it's especially important to look back and be like, "Okay, why do I feel like this is so important to me?" Because I have friends for whom words of affirmation are their number one, or physical touch, or quality time, or some people like receiving gifts. It makes you think, "Do they like receiving gifts because maybe they didn't get something that meant something to them when they were younger?" It just makes you think. And I'm not saying that men can't do this with their own love languages, but I just feel like, for the majority of men, it's more about right now. Whereas for women, it's like, they're more focused on love and relationships, so they would be the ones thinking about the love languages more anyway, trying to fulfill maybe something they didn't have back then.

John: Which one, if it were missing, would you not want to lose the most? Which one would be the most damaging to you if you never got it again? If you never got physical touch, words of affirmation, gifts, quality time?

Nicole: Quality time, yeah. I mean, that's why it's the number one. It's the one that makes you feel most connected to somebody. Do I want all those other things to go away? No. But if I'm sitting here thinking about what would cause an emotional reaction from me if I never got this again, it'd be the quality time. Because then, at that point, think of it.

John: From my perspective, quality time is important. If we barely got to see each other and lived like roommates, to someone who cares about quality time, that would feel almost like you don't have that relationship and you don't have that strong of a connection because you're not spending time with each other and really being present with each other. Quality time isn't just time. Sometimes you can just sit with the person you care about and be in the same room and hang out, and that does feel good.

Nicole: Right, but it's quality time for a reason. Like getting to connect with each other, getting to be close, and have deep conversations and those sorts of things. So, I do think it'd be the top one. Which would you say it would be if I asked you that question? Would it be physical touch since that's your top one, or would it be words of affirmation?

John: I mean, I do also agree that gifts... But like I said, if maybe they never got a gift or it was never presented in a way where someone was like, "This made me think of you," or "I know you really wanted this," maybe that would make the importance of... It just seems weird like who has gifts as their top one?

Nicole: Right, it does feel like it's the most material one. But even if, no judgment, does that make you feel the most loved if your love language is receiving gifts?

John: Yeah, because I don't... It just seems maybe if we had read the book, then he would have educated us. I think I might... I think it would still be the physical, but maybe it's quality time. It's hard to say. I don't view physical touch as just physical intimacy. I view physical touch as touching each other outside of that. Does that make sense?

Nicole: Yeah, so I guess it's not like you're never going to be physically intimate ever again, but maybe men would think that.

John: And that's why they would choose that. But I don't see it as that because I feel like if it was just about the sexual part of it, it would be called something more specific to that.

Nicole: Right, it just depends on what people think of when they think of these things. Like Words of Affirmation, it depends on what those words are and who it is. Certain things are more meaningful than others.

John: Right, but it just makes me think too of people with Words of Affirmation maybe they didn't hear the things that made them feel as loved as they could be. I'm not saying they were never loved.

Nicole: You're right, it usually is the important people. But I think the biggest point of the Five Love Languages is that just because this thing makes you feel loved doesn't mean it makes the other person feel loved. So don't just do the thing that you like, assuming they must like it too. They do overlap a bit, and in a romantic relationship, you're going to have all of these. But when you're asked which one you could absolutely not give up, that's when people talk about their main one.

John: Right, from a general standpoint, they all play a part no matter what. Even though we were talking about receiving gifts, if I never got you a gift or you never got me a gift, it's not about the gift, it's about the thought.

Nicole: Exactly, that's why it's a model. It's not even the best model, honestly.

John: What would you think the best model would be?

Nicole: Well, to look at things through the masculine and feminine, and what fulfills the masculine versus what fulfills the feminine.

John: What would the love language be then for masculine and feminine?

Nicole: Most women, what would their chief complaint be in a long-term relationship? They would say, "I don't want your gifts, I don't want you to say all these nice things to me, I don't want you to clean my car. I want you to spend time with me, to act like you actually care, like I'm more important than your work." That's most women's chief complaint.

John: You can get it out of them. I don't care that you're cleaning the house, or that you did, or that you got me some stuff when you went to the store, or that you're telling me that you love me. Wear something sexy and show me. That's what a guy's like. I want to see. Those other things don't matter as much. But women will typically think, "Oh, I'm doing all these things right," and he's like, "No, I want you to do the one thing that matters to me." And women, the same thing. It's like, guys, I'm doing all these things, and women are like, "No, I want you to do the one thing that matters to me," which is actually showing that you want to spend time with me as a human being, as a person. Because again, I think a lot of it comes down to how, if men are honest, the way that we as men value ourselves is in attracting women or getting the sexual desire of women. That is what men see. They will rank themselves in a hierarchy based on that.

Nicole: Why do they do that?

John: Well, hold on. But women, the way women value themselves, and they don't really have the same hierarchical structure, they're more egalitarian, but it's based on feeling like who they are as a person is valued, not their physical appearance, especially if they are, you know, I think that when you see deviations from it, it's when like women that have a very high physical touch, it's women that don't see themselves as physically attractive. But if a woman has a healthy self-esteem in terms of her appearance and attraction, then she's more likely to be valuing herself based on how, like, spending time with someone, wanting to spend time with someone, that indicates that you value them as a person, their personality, who they are, that you just don't see them as a sexual object.

Nicole: Women who have physical touch as their main one are lacking self-confidence or self-esteem. Why is that?

John: Usually because they didn't get it from their father or mother. Well, usually it's the father in that case, right? Because, yeah, but I think a woman knows that. It tries to get attention from men to make up for the fatherly attention that she didn't get, that love.

Nicole: I agree with that. And she knows to get it through physical touch. But I think that people can also do that if they don't have a good connection with their mother as well, too. Like, it is more dependent on the father relationship for sure, but it can also see it because I feel like a mother not doing that affects a woman's self-esteem in a different way than if a father doesn't do it. And I do agree with you that I think that if she doesn't have that with her father, it might lead to more promiscuity.

John: Right, because it's like that masculine-feminine dynamic, and that part goes into it. And again, before we get into Freud and things here, I feel like though it is still important, and it'd be wrong to not mention that if a mother isn't also making her daughter feel good about herself, she will still have that void. It's just different, but she can still have that lead down the same path because she isn't confident in herself. And so people can try to overcompensate for that, and it could also happen to people for other reasons too, like trauma with cheating or things like that. A lot of people who get cheated on take it personally.

Nicole: As someone who got cheated on and took it personally, you know that also is something that can mess with your perception of things. But like you said, I think it does go with that sort of self-esteem, self-confidence side to it. And there's also this element of what people think that their Love Languages are and then what it actually is because many times when we say what we want, it's not what we actually want. We think we want one thing, we don't realize that it's something else that we actually want.

John: Right. So I think there's some of that too. But again, so much of it is in denial. Like I said, if we look and examine our true motives for things, we usually don't want to do that because we don't like what we find there. You have to face the harsh truth. But it is somewhat of a reality. Like I said, for a majority of men, they're valuing themselves based on their ability to, you know, that's why it's like, "Oh, this guy's a stud." That's how men complement each other. Don't worry, I didn't forget I was going to circle back around on that one. So, what do men always value themselves based on? Women finding them attractive, or when does that happen? And do you think that is why a majority of men have physical touch because that's their goal? And like, why is that the goal?

Nicole: I think a majority of men do, again, if they're totally honest and can actually even see their own motives, right? Because most men are going to deny that that is the case. But then when you look at the psychology of it, and you see how men behave and what they respond to, then you can see that that probably is one of the major, if not the major, driving force. But I think, you know, it can depend on, again, like your childhood, what you did or did not have.

John: Mhm. And how you were, you know, how you were responded to at earlier points in your life. But I don't think that's like the only thing. Obviously, I was going to say, how does that change when you get married, when it's not multiple women, it's one woman? That's why it becomes so critical in a marriage for the woman to show that because the guy needs to know that he's still that stud. He doesn't want to feel like he's now a tamed in a cage puppy dog. He still wants to feel like he's the lion. And so the woman has to continue to make him feel that way, just like the same thing on the flip side. A woman doesn't want to get married and then feel like she's not worthy of being romanced.

Nicole: Exactly. And so because, you know, yeah, she has, if she was single, she'd have plenty of suitors that would try and, you know, what I'm saying. So she's got to get that, you know, it's almost like I would say validation, but it's the security, the sense of security of it from somewhere else, from her husband. So that makes sense.

John: Yeah. But I think that's a better way to look at the, you know, like I said, through the masculine and feminine. I think you can understand more about it because, I mean, like I mentioned in the beginning, it is different. Like I said, I do feel like a majority of men kind of have physical touch or words of affirmation because of the reasons we already discussed, and women can vary more. And I think it's, you know, those kinds of go more into like all of them if you look at all of them. Right? You need all of them for a relationship. So if a woman says one or the other, she's still looking for that, like you said, that way.

John: Of you showing her that you actually care about her, right? And that can vary based on what she was lacking growing up, I guess. That would make her feel most loved by you. But I agree, and I'm biased, though, because we already know that mine is quality time. But there is something where if someone's just with you and enjoys time with you, that means so much. Like you said, there are plenty of women out there who are like, "I don't want you to walk the dog every day. I don't want you to buy me a gift. I just want you to love me." Right? Like, and it's not that she doesn't care about those things. It's not to say that those things don't matter because they're still nice, and like we talked about, they're part of a well-rounded relationship when you have all of the things to some degree. But it does make you feel like someone genuinely cares about you when all there is is you and the time together.

Nicole: Right, yeah. And you feel like someone's choosing to sit there with you and spend time with you. And again, it's not the main one for everybody, but I think it ties into what you said, whereas from a feminine perspective, that's what a woman wants. She wants to be loved right to her core. And men want to feel desired and needed.

John: Right, exactly. And that's where the words of affirmation come in, to be looked up to, respected, accomplished, you know, congratulated for their accomplishments. So, and you know, I think it has a lot of root in evolutionary biology. Because if you think about it too, again with the feminine, the masculine, what do women, in fact, women probably have gifts as probably number two or number three on their list, I would guess that.

Nicole: A lot of women do because, so as a woman, what are the things that she's concerned with, right? So if a guy really likes her beyond just her physical appearance, which she knows fades over time, again not smart to base something on something that you don't have control over, he has to actually like you as a person, love you as a person. So, physical gifts, first of all, they show that he's willing to allocate his resources to her, which is, you know, an evolutionary marker of a good mating strategy. A man, that's why, you know, that was like my second last one.

John: Well, but women, in general, from an evolutionary biology perspective, select men that have high resources that they share with them. So, I mean, it makes sense because he's also investing in you.

Nicole: Exactly, right. That's why we buy diamond rings and jewelry. It's because it shows like the more invested, the less likely he is to go and leave. And then the quality time also indicates that same thing. We haven't talked a lot about acts of service. I mean, acts of service is also, which I feel like that became like mine. If you take out quality time because we spend so much time together, like I said, acts of service became, I think, my number one, but it's still not quality time. And like, I don't need you to do stuff for me, but it's like when you do things, I'm going to use you as an example, obviously. Like, you know, I don't like doing the dishes by hand. I don't like doing the dishes. I'll fold laundry all day, but I don't want to do the dishes, and sometimes you just do them. And like, you do them for me. You don't like, be like, "Hey, I'm doing the dishes for you," but I can tell you're like genuinely doing them because you know I don't like to do them. And that means a lot. It's not just like, "Oh, he cleaned the car," or, you know, these things. It's you doing something to help me because you know I don't like it. And I think that is like the key behind the acts of service thing, right? It's like someone doing something for you because they care about you, and you don't have to ask for it, and you know they're not like holding it over your head like, "Hey, I did the dishes. You know what that means," or something like that. And it's like those genuine moments of like someone trying to help you or someone doing something for you that they know you might not want to do or something like that is, yeah, the acts of service. And if you think about that, right, if I put those three, quality time, acts of service, and gifts for a woman, those things indicate that he's not just here for the sex, and you see what I'm saying? That he's not just using you for the physical aspect.

John: Right, because unfortunately, the words of affirmation with men, you can't trust that. It's difficult to compliment a woman; she doesn't believe it. So if you flip it, though, what is a man's main concern? Is that he's being used for his resources or status.

Nicole: Right, so what proves that it's not the case? One, physical touch. If she wants you, she desires you, then she's not using you for your money and for your status. Number two, words of affirmation. If she looks up to you and respects you, which is harder for a woman. It's much harder for her to, oh, a man could say whatever to try and get in your pants. He doesn't have any problem doing that. He can bullshit you well. This is exactly why women don't believe the compliments. A woman, she has to swallow a lot of pride to be able to call a man that she doesn't respect, a man that she respects, or to say, "Oh, you're so big and strong," when she doesn't really think it. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's harder for her to, like, those come across as more genuine.

John: Right, so, so that's why those things, what would be the third one if you had to pick three for men? I always forgot.

Nicole: Okay, so it's physical touch, words of affirmation. What would be the third? We said acts of service for women, gifts, and then quality time. I mean, I don't know if there is like, I think there's only those two. I think it's mostly the two.

John: Yeah, because I don't see the, I think quality time, yeah, you're like, no.

Nicole: Yeah, I guess that. I mean, but women always want your time, so I don't think that like, it feels like, you know, that that's a, but I would say it as like listening to you talk about the things that you care about and things like that. Like, that's quality time. I guess men do value that.

John: Yeah, I think so, but it's just, you know, that that's where it starts to become more of a blurry line, whereas I think those two are distinct for men, and the other three are distinct for women if we had to pick three. Because I do think it would be quality time too because there are plenty of men out there that are like, "My wife doesn't listen to how I feel," and all that stuff, and that's quality time, is sitting down and, yeah, if you interpret it that way, getting to the nitty-gritty.

John: Itty of what's going on. Yeah, I mean, like if I had, if we did three for each, but I understand that the top two are physical touch and words of affirmation. But just to equal, I think if you define quality time as I'm going to spend time with you, it's about you this time versus we're just going to be together.

Nicole: Right, well, that's why I said it has to be some sort of quality specific. Do just like having somebody there, and they would classify that as quality time. But that same person would still feel like the true definition of quality time is sitting with somebody, paying attention to them. Then I would say that makes sense.

John: Right, but yeah, I think that's more so. And I think that when things fall out of those categories, there's something going on. Right, because generally, women would want those three things. It makes sense, and if there's something else, like I said, even though you were like, "Who would want that?" But that's because I'm a man.

Nicole: Right, but from a woman's perspective, I think that a lot of, I mean, gift-giving is a thing that is big for women, right? Like, you know, it's not as much for you, but for a lot of women, that is because it's an indication of where you're...

John: Yeah, but I would tell women too that, again, I'm like the poster child for quality time, that the thing that a man values more, though, is his time. Because a man could have money, and he could get you gifts, and he could still not care. Granted, some of the other things that you talked about definitely do show that he's invested in you.

Nicole: Yeah, but I do think quality time is the main one because he can't get that back. He can't make more time.

John: Yeah, you can't. And he can make more money, right, and he can pay for something, and it might not mean anything. But I know quality time was already up there, wasn't it?

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. So, but I'm just saying, like, also don't be dazzled by the gifts.

John: No, no, I don't think that's as high. I know what you're saying. It can depend, but I'm just saying that those things, you know, if it falls out of the range of those for either a man or woman, there's probably something going on that's causing that because those should be the default, right, based on the masculine and the feminine. That makes sense. So, you know, if you had a guy, for example, that was very big on his love language being gifts, I don't even know what that, but it seems like that would be a weird thing, don't you think?

Nicole: Like a woman having it, it doesn't seem as weird of a thing. Like, you'd be worried, is she a gold digger? But that doesn't seem out of the ordinary. Or I would feel like I was going to have to be a sugar mama if you wanted gifts all the time. I would be the provider in the relationship if that was the case.

John: Right, yeah. I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but again, I know that it still stems from things in the past. So maybe something really traumatizing happened around that. I don't know.

Nicole: Yeah, but I think the other piece of knowledge you can apply to this, which is like what we're saying here, what I'm saying about this, is that, be careful how I word it, but look, if a person is saying that their love language is this, but they're feminine or they're masculine, you might want to think about maybe it's actually the things we said. You see what I'm saying? It's because sometimes people aren't in tune with what they say they want, something but that's not what they actually want, or sometimes it's not even, is there afraid to admit what they actually want because they're embarrassed of it. Let's use what you even just said, like you said, gift-giving, a man giving a woman a gift, it's about the investment.

John: Right, but what they really want is the investment, is the commitment. Right, and so like you said, it's good to kind of look at it and be like, okay, what is the underlying desire here?

Nicole: Right, and people should do that with their own love languages too. Right, like okay, why is acts of service so important to me? You know, it makes me feel loved when someone just does something for me, and I don't have to ask. It feels like they pay attention to me and care about me. Right, and then you understand where these sort of feelings and stuff come from. Or like, you know, for a man, why physical touch. I think we hit the nail on the head with that, but it's like figuring out why your love language is the way that it is also can heal parts of you too.

John: Yeah, like it's not going to heal where, you know, you don't value that love language anymore, but it is something about understanding why that means something to you and being able to also talk about it with your partner. So that they understand why. Because if I'm just like, "I like quality time," you're like, "Okay," and you might not know what that really means to me.

Nicole: Right, exactly. So figuring out what it really means, and if you're having that conversation with your boyfriend, your girlfriend, whatever, like you guys are end up talking about it, I would say really dive into the why. Because then they also can be able to support you and make you feel loved in the way that you really want and need, and they'll have a bigger picture of it.

John: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, but yeah, I think it, like I said, I think it's not the best model, but it gives you an idea of what, right, you have to do some extra digging. But yeah, I would be curious. I have to look up the stats to see what percentage of men or women have the different, how they rank the different love languages.

Nicole: Yeah, like I said, I feel like if I pulled 100 men, 98 would say physical touch as number one. But some men will say will not say physical touch, even if it is, because they're not comfortable with their sexuality, and so they're embarrassed by it. So they would, they don't want to seem like that would be the thing, you know what I'm saying?

John: So I think you have some of those things going on too. And in many cases, that's why I'm saying, go with what you know is likely to be the case. Even, I mean, you obviously can ask and find out, but yeah, you should also use some outside knowledge to say, okay, well, you know, this is probably going to go over well because again, it's the intent behind it. Right, it's like because even with the gift-giving, if one's like, okay, gift-giving is, or getting gifts is my love language because it makes me feel like you've invested in me. Well, okay, so then if I have a lot of money and I get you a lot of gifts, and I haven't really invested, right? But if I don't have a lot of money and I get you something expensive, now I've invested. So was it really the gifts, or was it, like you said, the underlying indication of investment, which, right, time is also that?

Nicole: Right, so yeah, exactly.

John: It's a lot more complicated, and people just take quizzes. And I'm people because I'm taking the quizzes. But it's like you really have to dive into why, and sometimes people don't do that. It'll help you and it'll help your relationship and your partner. So, you know, figure out why your top one is your top one and also see where all of them fit in your relationship and how they'll show up. Because like I said, I feel like if you're in a good, healthy relationship, they're all there, yeah, to different degrees.

Nicole: Yeah, and a lot of times too, if your top one's getting fulfilled, then you don't even think about love languages. Like, I don't think about quality time at all because I know I have quality time with you every day. And so, it's interesting to look at. But, yeah, for the third time, we need to read the book just to get the feel of it. But yeah, you're more likely to notice it if there's a deficiency. That's the thing. But that's also why it was important you brought up that don't give the other person your love language because so many people get messed up with that. That's the biggest lesson from it because that's where it gets messed up. Because then that person gets frustrated too because they're like, "I'm doing all these things for you that I would love if someone did this for me," and it's like you're just unpleasable, no matter what, you're ungrateful. And then the person telling you what they actually want, and you're not listening because you're like, "Oh, that doesn't make sense to me." But that's also when you guys talk about it, to dive deeper into it.

John: Right, because if you're just like, "Physical touch is yours, physical touch is the last one on mine," it doesn't resonate with me like it does for you. But because you've explained it and how it makes you feel and what it does for you, it's way easier to understand. So, that's why I feel like if you're having this conversation about The Love Languages, one, you should be having it because you genuinely want to show your partner love in the way that makes them feel the most loved. And two, that you want to be vulnerable and you want to have a deeper conversation about it. Like, this is your partner, this is the person that you're dating, you're committed to, you're married to, whatever it is. And you know, you want to make them feel the best that they possibly can, and you want to understand why that physical touch matters so much to them and what does that give them.

Nicole: Right, the deeper thing, the vulnerable part. Like, I know last episode we stressed the vulnerable whole topic. But that is the key, is to be vulnerable and to talk about the things, the real feelings behind the things. Because what does it mean to you? What's the thing or what's the fear or the worry that you have, the insecurity that you have that this fixes?

John: Right, because it usually comes down to some kind of insecurity that, you know, that's why you feel loved because the person is making you feel secure in a way that maybe didn't feel safe before.

Nicole: That makes sense. Alright, well, I think that's it until we read the book.

John: True, just two people talking about something they know nothing about. But no, I don't feel like you have to read the books to know. You know, everybody kind of knows, and people might watch this and get a different perspective on it. Maybe the person who wrote the book watches this and they're like, "You got some high, high... I'm editing the book now." Or maybe we just summarized the whole book without even reading it. But who knows, we'll find out one of these days when we actually read it. But we have to do an episode where we take the modern psychology and relationship therapy and look at it through the masculine-feminine lens because I think that you can't really get to the bottom unless you do. Because you get a better understanding of why we're different and why we operate the way that we operate.

Nicole: Right, because those are the more fundamental differences than introversion, extroversion, attachment types, Love Languages, all the different models that we use. I think the more fundamental difference is the masculine or the feminine energy.

John: I agree. Alright, well, what about our thing for the week?

Nicole: I don't think we really had anything. We got into a little bit of politics.

John: Oh God, I forgot about that. I blocked that out of my memory. But it didn't turn out bad. I was just more concerned that my... that the world is doomed. Will I be able to take care, will you be able to take care of yourself if something happened to me?

Nicole: And you know, so, but which I really... which you finally got to the actual vulnerability of it. Like in the beginning, you were kind of like poking the bear, you were like getting upset with me. Not like, like you said, it wasn't like a huge thing, but I could tell that you were like on the defense.

John: Yeah, and then after we talked more about it, and even then you started saying things that I said, that even started the conversation. I'm like, "Well, then why are we... why is there defense when you're saying the same thing that I was saying?" And then you finally got to like the vulnerable, actual rooted feeling. Like you said, like if something happens to me, what's the world going to look like, what are you and Sophia going to do, sort of thing. And so, it was nice to see you actually in that way rather than the defensive. Because at first, I felt like you just wanted to fight with me or argue with me.

Nicole: Right, yeah. And then when you kind of like calmed yourself down after we were talking about it, and again, you weren't like irate or anything, but I'm just saying like the defensiveness calmed down, you got to actually like open up and talk about your fears or things that were worrying you. And then you felt better after you talked about those things.

John: Well, because I hadn't said anything about any of the stuff because I don't want to worry you. You know what I mean? Because it's like a burden I carry of, you know, if hits the fan, I'm prepared. I know what's got to be done. I know, you know, it's like there are all these things that I think about. So, it was like, you know, I haven't really told you about them.

Nicole: So you worried yourself because you didn't tell me about them, and then I didn't understand, which worried you.

John: Yeah, like which women do stuff like that all the time. They do the same sort of stuff. It's like, "I'm worried about this thing that I didn't even tell you, and I'm worried that I didn't tell you, and that you don't know, but I didn't tell you."

Nicole: Yeah, it was one of those things, but pretty much so, yeah.

John: It was not even like a big thing. Like I said, when I say that you were on the defensive, it was just a normal conversation. But after our long conversation a few weeks ago, it was like that was nothing.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. But alright, don't talk about politics unless you have to.

John: Yeah, I mean, it's so stupid today. Now, because politics is just... I was just thinking about this today. I was like, when was the last time that you saw any kind of information that you got today, like let's say news, right, that didn't already have a pre-bias built into it? That people weren't like, when was the last time you got a story that was just a story without the opinion attached to the story?

Nicole: Well, it's been 20 years. I think it's been 20 years. It's just getting worse and worse. So, everything we consume has an opinion attached to the facts, which sway the facts, right? Because, as you know, certain guys can use certain facts in one way to make it, you know, something. When you attach an opinion to the facts, but we just live in a world now where everything, no one can escape this. Everyone is susceptible to it. Every piece of information that you're getting, you're getting it attached with an opinion, even this piece of information right here, that influences you as opposed to it just being the objective, you know, facts of the truth. So, a lot of people think that they're getting their information and they got it correct because it's factually correct, but what they don't realize is that they also carry the opinion with them because it was given to them. It wasn't so...

John: But yeah, so it's just, that's why politics is just stupid today. It's just such a mess these days. It's better not to just talk about it. Like, don't talk about it at all unless you absolutely have to.

Nicole: Yeah, I think so. This is... yeah, it's just, it's just peaceful that way.

John: Yeah, yeah. So, but you're like, I don't want to worry you. I'm like, I don't even read. I haven't read the news for the last, you know, 10 years maybe. I don't go to any news site. I really... I hear the news, right? I mean, yeah, it gets in your face.

Nicole: So, yeah, I don't need to go. I don't need to go and look for it.

John: So, yeah, yeah. Alright, do it. Oh, uh, and I guess we didn't have any new reviews. So, oh, if you want to leave us an iTunes review, we appreciate it. And, uh, we'll... it's not iTunes anymore, Apple Podcast, whatever it is, wherever, everywhere, anywhere you know.

Nicole: Yeah, that's it. Alright, alright, bye.

John: Alright, bye. Goodbye, get out of here. Leave. Swipe away from me. Through every... we find our way.