Nicole [00:00:00]: It was a guy talking about how one of his female clients got murdered. John just replies, oh, my God, that's so horrible. Was it an angry ex? And he said, yes. The guy came in and killed her while she was sleeping and killed her new boyfriend. That man not only took her life, but the person that she was with as a man too. Does that not also make you feel like I now men get a little taste of it. Right. That's the only time they can experience what women experience all the time.

John [00:00:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:00:29]: With men, women have to constantly be afraid that their going to get murdered, even at the phone number.

John [00:00:34]: Part beyond the perfect we discover through.

Nicole [00:00:37]: Our flaws we complete each other.

John [00:00:41]: Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find our way. All right, welcome back to the better than Perfect podcast where every week we share with you how to imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship.

Nicole [00:01:02]: All right.

John [00:01:02]: And we're back, back, back again.

Nicole [00:01:06]: Jeez. But yeah, I guess we don't have. I mean, besides that we sat here for God knows how long talking about the one we just were talking about.

John [00:01:15]: Because we're still trying to figure it out. Like, the last episode was a little bit scattered, but because it is hard. It's a hard thing. It's a hard thing to. To really figure this out and. And not say it like an idiot. Like, I'm saying it because I'm trying to. I mean, it's raw. It's brutish.

Nicole [00:01:32]: It's brutish is what I'm saying.

John [00:01:34]: Yeah, it's brutish is what I'm saying.

Nicole [00:01:35]: You're trying to tell women what to do, though, in a masculine way. So that's why it's confusing.

John [00:01:39]: Yeah, it's hard. Well, yeah, because I'm just. I'm still baking and I'm still trying to figure out what does it actually come down to.

Nicole [00:01:45]: We'll have to come with fully baked ideas next time.

John [00:01:48]: Like, maybe we can get some help from the audience too. Maybe they can get. Give ideas of what is it, you know?

Nicole [00:01:55]: Well, like you said, I think it's hard because a lot of people are 50. 50. And yeah. So it. It's not.

John [00:02:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:04]: Probably going to be a lot of people in a situation like us.

John [00:02:07]: And it's two questions. It's if you're a man that's a sole provider, what should your wife be doing with her time if. If you're not. If you're in a 50, 50 relationship, if you were to. Or that's a good question, is if you were Going to become the sole provider. What expectations would you have of your partner? Right.

Nicole [00:02:33]: Okay. I think that can be slightly dangerous.

John [00:02:37]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:02:38]: Especially men who are, like, fantasizing about it, and it's not realistic. Well, for women, too, because it sounds like they'll probably just want their wives to stay home and just turn into sexual beings, and that's all that they would need to do.

John [00:02:54]: Okay. I don't think that's an. I don't. I don't. I mean, that's.

Nicole [00:02:57]: I think a lot of guys would.

John [00:02:58]: Say that that's what they would want.

Nicole [00:02:59]: Yeah. Just, you know, available at all times.

John [00:03:03]: Yeah. That might be fun for a little while, but it's gonna grow old real quick, like, so.

Nicole [00:03:06]: Well, I think you have to actually say that because, like I said, having guys fantasize about something, you know, they're going to be people in the comments that are just talking about that.

John [00:03:14]: But. But the question is for men and women too, right? Because the question is for women is like, if a man was going to take over the finances and. And work and relieve you from your job, you don't have to work anymore, what would you do for that? Like, what would it be worth to you? Like, or what would you then think that would be the appropriate thing to do? Because that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of is like, what.

Nicole [00:03:37]: I get what you're saying, but I also think that people who aren't in it can't fully understand because there is something about. Because plenty of women would be like, oh, I'll do all the housework, st. Or whatever, because they just don't want to work. And that's true. But they'll eventually not work for long enough where it's not gonna just be the exact same over and over.

John [00:04:02]: Yeah, it's more like if you marry a wealthy man and he works and he has maid service and a cook and all the things. So there's no domestic work. Then what do you do?

Nicole [00:04:15]: Well, I'm sure they'd say go to the gym so that they look nice and then do the things that. We've already discussed that. So that say.

John [00:04:22]: But that's the. The real, like, thing we're trying to get to is like, what is the actual. Because we talked about.

Nicole [00:04:27]: But I don't think that any of them would say that. They would read books and things like that. I really don't think that they would say that.

John [00:04:35]: Yeah, I don't think so. But. But it's. It's like, what is. What does the supporting look like, that's the. It's the hard thing to answer.

Nicole [00:04:42]: And what we talked about, not on camera, was that, like, in our own situation, it seemed like you need me to need you more.

John [00:04:52]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:53]: And you have said that before, and that's what I struggle with the most.

John [00:04:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:04:56]: Is like, asking for help or, you know, being needy. Because as women, that's just something that we have a hard time with. A lot of the time is.

John [00:05:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:08]: You know, asking for help and appearing needy like I talked about in the last episode. But it seemed like that is more so what you needed. I'm not saying it's the only thing, but it's probably the thing that you've been missing compared to the other things that you were talking about.

John [00:05:26]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so.

Nicole [00:05:27]: I think that's true, but because, like, the ending of the last episode, you just blew my mind being like, ask for hug instead of give a hug. I'm like, what?

John [00:05:38]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:39]: Like, I would have never came to that on my own thinking.

John [00:05:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:44]: Like, even if. Though you told me to think the opposite.

John [00:05:46]: Right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:47]: My mind would have never been like, ask for a hug instead of just giving a hug.

John [00:05:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:05:52]: But so that's why, too, in our whole conversation, like, actually talking about what the problem is or what the fear really is or.

John [00:06:02]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:02]: You know, like, even a guy being like, I'm afraid I'm gonna be pulling the weight in the entire relationship or putting in more in the relationship than you are. Like, that's the fear. That's the real thing. And people hide the fear in a lot of ways, like we talked about, by being defensive and being like, I do this, this, and this. Because the fear behind that is really. I'm doing all these things, and I feel like, you're not doing enough. And I'm afraid that I'm going to be the one pulling this relationship forward for the rest of my life.

John [00:06:32]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which. Which boils down to not feeling appreciated, because that's what.

Nicole [00:06:38]: Right. But that's the fear.

John [00:06:39]: Exactly. That's a fear.

Nicole [00:06:40]: When you talk about it as a fear, it also triggers the part in a woman that is emotional and nurturing and caring to. To dive into that more.

John [00:06:51]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:06:51]: And that's where you were getting it wrong, too, with the whole, like, well, you have eight hours a day. What are you doing? Because that's very, like, you want to come?

John [00:06:58]: I'm just trying to logically, like, lay it out so that. So that it's underst. Argument. It's like, because At a very logical level, this is not the way to talk about it. If a man is working eight hours a day and a woman is not, then she should be doing some. Like, if she didn't have to, you know, she would normally have to work those eight hours. So she's given eight hours. So some of that time should be going back to him in some way.

Nicole [00:07:22]: But the thing is, women also don't look like. And especially too, like, if you are a man who's like, I'm going to provide.

John [00:07:29]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:07:29]: Why are you even looking at it as well? You would be at work for eight hours anyway. Like, telling that to a woman would be like, I'd rather just go work eight hours than if you're expecting me to work while not working. Does that make sense? Like, I know what you are trying to say exactly. But the fact that you're presenting it that way just makes a woman automatically want to go to. Well, I'd rather just go to work because I don't even know what he's talking about.

John [00:07:52]: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to present it that way. I'm just trying.

Nicole [00:07:55]: You also can't logical marry a woman and be like, I want you to stay home and take care of the house and take care of the kids. And then be like, oh, but you would have been at work for eight hours. So what are you doing with your eight hours? You know what I mean? Like, that doesn't even. That's not a stay at home, mom. Like, that's a stay. That's like, Right. A stay at home, but work in a different way. Like, and I get what you're trying to say. I'm not saying she shouldn't care about.

John [00:08:19]: Supporting her husband investing in the relationship in that time, however that looks. I guess maybe that's the, the thing that we've been missing is using those words. Because that's what the truth is. Right? Like, she should be investing in the relationship, however that looks. Right. That might look like cleaning up the house if you don't have enough income to pay for a maid. It might look like taking care of the kids.

Nicole [00:08:41]: Even if you have a maid, it still has to be clean. Like laundry still has to be done.

John [00:08:45]: But it might, it might look like different. Varying degrees of that. But it's like, what is the thing that. That needs to be, you know?

Nicole [00:08:52]: But if you're talking to women, you do have to say it in the right way because you're talking like you're talking to men.

John [00:08:59]: I know, because I'm just trying to logically lay out the framework because it's. It's. I still don't have it quite. I mean, we're getting closer to it, but.

Nicole [00:09:06]: Right, Yeah, I understand. But you also have to understand that you have to do it in the right way for the right audience.

John [00:09:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:13]: Because we're not the same. No, no. And the thing that you want is more softness, more.

John [00:09:20]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:21]: Feminine qualities. So you will not get that by being like, did you clock in your eight hours today? What were you doing? I saw you on the couch on doing TikTok. You should have been read a book on how to support me. Like, yeah, I get the idea behind it, but that is not going to garner feminine energy that you actually want.

John [00:09:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:44]: You know what I mean?

John [00:09:45]: Right.

Nicole [00:09:45]: But by being vulnerable and speaking about, like, the actual fear you have, like, I'm afraid because I feel like I've been putting in a lot to our relationship and investing a lot in our relationship.

John [00:09:57]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:09:57]: And it doesn't feel very equal. And I'm afraid that that is how it's always going to be or it's going to get worse.

John [00:10:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:10:06]: Then, you know, I'm saying some women might still be defensive, but, you know, a woman is more likely to be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I don't want you to think that I'm not invested in this. I'll definitely work on that. Like, how can I support you? Or there's certain things that you're missing or things like that. You know what I mean? It's easier. That helps guide the emotional to a beneficial place.

John [00:10:32]: And you know where this is coming from real quick before we, like, okay, like into, like. Because, like, I've been in this situation in the past.

Nicole [00:10:40]: Right?

John [00:10:41]: Right. Where I'm like, not only are you not supporting me, you're actively sabotaging me. So why the fuck am I working for, like 10, 12 hours a day and you're watching TV or whatever the hell you're doing, and then making my job harder and giving me all kinds of shit instead of actually supporting me. Right. Like, creating more problems for me to deal with on top of it. So I'm like, look, If I'm working 10, 12 hours, and then you should be, like, spending that time trying to support me, trying to figure out how you can make my life easier, not harder. Not just thinking it's free. Like, I don't care if you watch some TV or whatever, have some time, relax, go to the spa, whatever you want to do, but just make sure that you're at least putting in the investment to make me feel like I'm appreciated and admired and give in. Like taking pressure and stress off of me that can be relieved so that I can function better, to make everything better for everyone. That's right. That's where you see, that's where it comes from.

Nicole [00:11:43]: It's like if you had just said that. No, but I'm saying.

John [00:11:46]: You know what I'm saying. But that. Does that make more sense now? Like, putting that.

Nicole [00:11:49]: It always made sense in that way, but. And I hear what you're saying.

John [00:11:54]: Right.

Nicole [00:11:55]: And I think it is important to acknowledge that there probably was some of that past in this whole conversation.

John [00:12:05]: Been in that situation for a long time.

Nicole [00:12:07]: Right, right, exactly. But, like, I think it's important to acknowledge that that also, that fear of what you've already experienced might have exasperated this. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying there aren't things I know that I need to work on.

John [00:12:22]: No, no.

Nicole [00:12:23]: But at the same time, sometimes these experiences from our past pour over into our future and our brain thinks you're in the same situation, but you're not.

John [00:12:35]: No. Yeah. And it's not, to equate it, like I said, you're wonderful. You do tons of stuff for me. Like, I appreciate you 100%.

Nicole [00:12:43]: But I get exactly what you're saying. Your situation, too, I feel like, was very extreme though, too. And that's why earlier, when we did the other episode, I was like, I'm doing way more than most women are doing, and I'm still confused. So I'm genuinely trying to figure it out. But your instance was, like, almost the exact opposite. Like, there wasn't. And that's also why you wanted it so bad. Right. Is like, you. They weren't just putting in any sort of.

John [00:13:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:13:15]: Thought wellness.

John [00:13:17]: It's just that I guess as a man, you want the woman you're with. Right. And that's what I was saying from before. To be thinking in her head while you're working at work or whatever, if you're going to the office while she's sitting at home. Ah, isn't this nice? I don't have to go into the office. My husband's so great. What could I do for him today to show him that I'm so appreciative that I don't have to work and that I can just, you know, be myself? Like, maybe I'll put on some sexy laundry or maybe I'll write him a nice little note or Maybe I'll make him his favorite dinner. You know what I mean? Because it's like, that's what you as a man is hoping that your wife is thinking. Right? That's appreciative. Right. That she's spending like you're spending time. Like when you're in the office and you're working, you're thinking, I'm doing this for my wife or my family, and you're hoping that she's at home thinking, what can I do for him? You know what I mean? And, and if you feel like Amanda, that's not the case, that's when you, you feel like there, there's something wrong, especially if it's, like I said, actively sabotaging, which, you know.

Nicole [00:14:26]: But I'm, I'm telling you right now, women are doing that more than you think they are. They just might not show it every single day. But I mean, if a woman's staying at home, she, she does understand the, the like, greatness of being able to do that. And I'm not saying that she shouldn't show her husband more.

John [00:14:55]: Right.

Nicole [00:14:56]: Or there couldn't be things to be improved upon. But women in those situations, I feel like, for the most part, do appreciate it. And there are some that take advantage of it, but I think that those people got married for the wr.

John [00:15:09]: Easy to take advantage of it without. Not without even seeing it. Because it's. When you go to work and you clock in, it's easy to say, oh, I'm here to work. Like, I'm supposed to be spending my hours working. Right. When you're at home, you might like. It's. It's not easy to like, it's not automatically built into that mindset. Like, to think, oh, how can I, like, do some stuff for my husband? Because I'm.

Nicole [00:15:31]: But viewing it as work, I feel like is damaging.

John [00:15:34]: Well, yeah, of course it's not work.

Nicole [00:15:35]: And that's why the way that, I mean, there's housework. But it would make a woman view it as work. Yeah, because you're describing it as work.

John [00:15:43]: Right.

Nicole [00:15:43]: Whereas more, it should be described as out of love and lifting up your husband.

John [00:15:50]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:15:51]: Because that, and that's why the terminology does matter. Like, people try to act like the words don't matter. They do actually matter because they watch our tick tock clips and they take them out of context all the time because it's just a clip.

John [00:16:05]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:06]: Words do matter. And I'm not saying that you're always going to be perfect and say the right thing, but they do matter. Like, because the way you described it before with it being like, I have eight hours at work. What are you doing with your eight hours? That does make a woman feel like it's work and love shouldn't feel like work. Like emotional support and caring and those sort of things shouldn't feel like work.

John [00:16:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:16:30]: As a feminine woman, it has to come from a place of the softness of vulnerability, the femininity.

John [00:16:35]: But there has to be a self accountability, is what I'm saying, for a woman just to acknowledge and be like, look, I'm not working, he's working. I have free time, but I should be spending this time in a way that is accountable, that is also investing in the relationship just as much as he is by working and doing the other things that he does.

Nicole [00:16:53]: Right. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be thought about, but I'm saying it shouldn't be positioned in a way.

John [00:16:59]: Yeah. I'm just using the crude words of a brutish man, that's all.

Nicole [00:17:02]: Yeah, but you can't say that to women though.

John [00:17:06]: It's just to logically. Because I can't work it out unless I put it into the logical framework as a man to be like, this is the raw Brutus.

Nicole [00:17:13]: I get it. But if you don't actually explain that's.

John [00:17:16]: Why it's not baked yet, we got to bake it.

Nicole [00:17:19]: If you don't explain it a way that a woman understand, you're just confusing her more and she doesn't understand. And then. Yeah, that's already happened.

John [00:17:25]: But once we have it fully baked, then we'll do that because we're just, we're baking it little by little as we're talking about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but, but it's got to be. It's got to get. A lot of the other ideas we have are fully baked. Right.

Nicole [00:17:36]: So not all of them. Let's see if today's is fully baked. Okay, John, I mean, I guess we'll have to come up with the title. So I'm just going to dive in. I'm not going to give a title because we can just figure it out. But John sent me a text message the other day from a guy in your coaching.

John [00:17:54]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:17:55]: Or like your. What is it like your community?

John [00:17:59]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [00:18:00]: And it was a guy talking about how one of his female clients got murdered.

John [00:18:07]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:07]: And John just replies, oh my God, that's so horrible. Was it a angry ex? And he said, yes, the guy came in and killed her while she was sleeping and killed her new boyfriend.

John [00:18:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:18:20]: And when he sent me that and the fact that John even knew that that's what it was, I was like, I kind of want to do a whole episode on the reality of women being afraid of men. And it's not just when you're dating and you don't know a guy and you have to be extra cautious. I've already talked about that.

John [00:18:42]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:42]: It's when you've dated them and if you broke up with them and what they're gonna do.

John [00:18:48]: Right.

Nicole [00:18:49]: And you. You really never know as a woman. I'm not saying that men never get murdered by women that are upset with them, but it is majority men murdering women that they're upset with. And it really does make dating and relationships difficult for women. Like, it's different if you're with somebody like you, where I'm like, okay, I. John would never murder me. But sometimes you don't fully know and you're putting yourself out there. Or you have to be afraid of how to communicate with a man because you don't know what he's capable of. Like, even our daughter, we went. When we went on the cruise, she was like, I don't know what to say to this guy because what if he gets really upset with me? And, you know, she didn't think he was going to murder her, but he could throw off. She's already. Right. Isn't that what she said? I think that's what she said. But, you know, she's already at 13.

John [00:19:48]: I mean, that is still a real possibility at 13. Right. Like. Like that. Actually, we're joking about it, but kids have been fallen off or been thrown off of cruise ships. And like, I. I know it seems really extreme, but you don't know. This is just some random kid. He's 13. He's bigger than her. He could throw off a cruise.

Nicole [00:20:05]: But men don't live their life worrying about this.

John [00:20:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:09]: Like, they might somewhat. They may be like, oh, she's so crazy. She's gonna, you know, hurt me or something, but slash the tires. That's the right. It's. Normally, women aren't typically murdering, but like I said, some do, but women genuinely. It never goes away because it's either the beginning.

John [00:20:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:27]: You have to make sure you don't get murdered.

John [00:20:28]: Right.

Nicole [00:20:29]: While you're in the relationship. If he maybe becomes abusive or something.

John [00:20:32]: Yeah. No.

Nicole [00:20:33]: When you break up, you have to worry and then.

John [00:20:35]: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And who knows how long after you break up.

Nicole [00:20:39]: Right. You don't even Know, there might be some ex boyfriend that I have that wants to murder me right now.

John [00:20:43]: Yeah, maybe.

Nicole [00:20:44]: I don't know. I mean, he probably would have done it by now. But I'm just saying that I don't think men fully realize what dating and being in a relationship is like for a woman.

John [00:20:55]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:20:56]: In this instance, like, there was even some guy here in San Diego.

John [00:21:01]: Oh, yeah? Yeah. Who? The Tick Tock guy that.

Nicole [00:21:03]: Yeah, the Tick Tock guy.

John [00:21:05]: Oh, yeah, he did.

Nicole [00:21:05]: Walked into his exes, Right. Their apartment together. They have a kid, and he shot both her and the guy that was there.

John [00:21:13]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:13]: After they had already broken up.

John [00:21:15]: Why do you think men do that?

Nicole [00:21:18]: I think because they don't want her to be with anybody else. I think it's typically men who got heartbroken and wanted to still be with that person, even if they mistreated that person. They don't want her to be with anybody else. And they are willing to throw their life away probably because they're like, well, she's the love of my life. If she doesn't want to be with me.

John [00:21:43]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:21:43]: She can't. She'll be with nobody. And then he's like, I have nothing to live for anyway if I murder this woman, so I'll just go to jail. That's what I would think.

John [00:21:53]: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's accurate. I think that it's like a. It's a twisted version of what we were talking about in the last episode of Like a Man. Just like, he. His whole. When he is married, when he's in a, like, committed relationship with the woman, his whole identity and purpose and value comes from making that woman happy. Right. That's what. And so when a man feels like he can no longer do that and that. And he hasn't shifted his purpose and it still is that, then his solution is to kill her, I guess. I mean, like. And to kill the guy that she's with. Right. Because. Because that's. Yeah. Because he. He can't succeed at his mission. You know what I mean? So it's like.

Nicole [00:22:34]: But there's also another layer.

John [00:22:37]: Okay. Yeah.

Nicole [00:22:38]: And I'm gonna talk about that guy that, like, killed his whole family so he could be with his mistress. I forget what his name was. That bald guy who. They found the kids.

John [00:22:49]: Are you talking about Peterson? Are you talking about Peterson?

Nicole [00:22:51]: He was bald, I believe, and he killed his pregnant wife and his two kids. They found, I think, the kids. Bodies.

John [00:22:58]: More recent one in the.

Nicole [00:23:00]: Yeah, in some, like, silo thing with the liquid.

John [00:23:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:23:05]: Could kill his entire family just to live another life.

John [00:23:10]: Yeah. I think that's a different motive in that case, because that's not really like the.

Nicole [00:23:14]: But is it the motive to love some other woman and to not be in trouble? I'm saying that this is like another layer to it. This is a different layer.

John [00:23:22]: A lot of guys don't. Well, I mean, the. The layer, the joining is murder. No, it's not murder. That's.

Nicole [00:23:29]: They just.

John [00:23:30]: They're clues. What do these stories have in common? Murder. That's it. Right. Correct.

Nicole [00:23:36]: I mean, it is true, but the.

John [00:23:37]: Underlying thing is, is lack of emotional control that men display. And that's why that's such a unattractive trait in men. If you see a man that has a lack of emotional control, women are hardwired to not be attracted to that guy.

Nicole [00:23:56]: But now they're good at hiding it. And they're just. Actually, a lot of times, the, like, really quiet ones.

John [00:24:03]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:03]: How many times has a guy murdered anybody?

John [00:24:06]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:24:07]: And it's always been the quiet ones.

John [00:24:09]: Oh, why do. That's why women value honesty so much. Right.

Nicole [00:24:13]: Tell me you're gonna murder me or not.

John [00:24:15]: Well, yeah. I mean. Well, okay, which is more dangerous? The guy that, you know, he's pissed off, but he's being polite and pretending like he's not pissed off. Right. Or the guy that says I'm pissed off.

Nicole [00:24:32]: Right. The guy that's trying to hide it.

John [00:24:34]: Right.

Nicole [00:24:34]: Is more dangerous.

John [00:24:36]: No. Well, which one did you say?

Nicole [00:24:38]: I think the guy that's trying to hide it.

John [00:24:39]: Yeah, yeah. The guy who's trying to hide it. I thought you said that. Is not trying to hide it.

Nicole [00:24:42]: No.

John [00:24:42]: Yeah. The guy that's trying to hide it. Right.

Nicole [00:24:44]: So now, I mean, they're both red flags.

John [00:24:46]: Right? It's. Yeah, it's both red. Red flags. I mean, depending on the situation. Right. It shouldn't be a. You know, everyone gets angry, but.

Nicole [00:24:54]: Oh, do they?

John [00:24:55]: Well, except for me. Not me. Hardly ever. I've been angry once. No, no, not. I don't get angry very often because I've learned to.

Nicole [00:25:05]: Right, but what you're saying is the honesty is you at least know he's telling the truth. He's not harboring anything, typically that the other person would be shoving down and then later taking out.

John [00:25:18]: Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole [00:25:19]: On a more extreme level, genuine.

John [00:25:23]: But. But it is a crazy but. You're right, though. I mean, that women do have to be careful. Well, it's. It's funny because I did a video too, where I was talking about how, like, why do. Guys will always ask, why do women give me their phone number? And then when I text them, they don't respond. And the answer usually is because she's afraid to not give you her phone number. You go up to a girl on the street and you're like, hey, what's your number? You're cute, whatever. She might not like you at all, but she gives you the phone number and she gives you a real phone number. Because some women have given guys fake numbers and the guy types it in and texts them right there and then gets pissed off because he's like, why did you give me a fake number? What is this? Right? And so a lot of times women are giving a guy a number and not responding because they just don't want to have a confrontation, what he's going to do.

Nicole [00:26:20]: Right, Exactly. You know why?

John [00:26:22]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:26:22]: Because you're in person with him face to face, right? If he wants to do something, he's right there.

John [00:26:29]: Right.

Nicole [00:26:30]: At least if you give him your number and you ignore him later, you don't have to see him ever again.

John [00:26:37]: And guys. Yeah, and guys get upset too when. When they say, oh, women are leading them on. They're like. I mean, this is why women put guys in the friend zone, I think, is because they're safe in the friend zone. Right.

Nicole [00:26:50]: From being murdered.

John [00:26:52]: Yeah. Think about it. Like, look, you know, it's weird that women put guys in the friend zone, but they do it all the time, right? So the most common thing that a woman will say to a guy that she doesn't like is, you know, I'm not really interested in you like that right now, or I'm not really interested in you like that, or you're not exactly my type, but let's just be friends.

Nicole [00:27:12]: Or maybe I don't think the friend zone protects you from being murdered. I think a guy, if he's pissed enough, he'll still murder you. Well, yeah, but he's in the friend zone.

John [00:27:20]: If you put him in the friend zone, right, you've pacified him. Right? Because if he agrees to be friends and you're still gonna talk to him, right, Then he's still holding on, that there's hope. Now, again, I agree that there's still danger later down the road, but there's not immediate danger because if you flat out reject a guy and like, I don't like you, I'm not interested, he might get pissed off. Right? But if he's in the friend zone, friend zone is safe. You're. They're friends.

Nicole [00:27:47]: Yeah. I mean, it's safe like you said, but I think that it could still result in murder.

John [00:27:54]: It could still result of Miss True Crimes. Look, but it's less likely, like, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a way of rejecting a guy without rejecting him because he's like, oh, you're still great, you're still a great person. You're wonderful. What do women say all the time? Oh, you're such a nice guy. I'm sure some woman is going to just, just going to love you so much or you're going to make such a great boyfriend for just. It's just, just not me. But we could be friends.

Nicole [00:28:18]: Don't murder me.

John [00:28:19]: Right? But we'll be friends, right? Because women say it like that in order to tamp down the aggression, right. So that it's not an outright rejection where he's likely to, you know, it's harder to react negatively to that. Right, right. Because if you say to, you know, let's just, let's just, you're a great guy. I, I think we would be great friends. It's hard to say you, you know, it's like, I'm gonna kill you because she's saying you're a great guy. Let's just be friends. But if she says, oh, yeah, I'm.

Nicole [00:28:48]: Not interested, that's still not even bad. But you're right.

John [00:28:53]: Like, then, then you get.

Nicole [00:28:54]: That's bad.

John [00:28:55]: The reaction.

Nicole [00:28:55]: So, but I mean, I guess how. What would you say to. About this topic? Like, is there a way. I guess you just said that women can friend zone guys and they'll be more safe. But like, how can we as women date without being so afraid of these things? And even the people we're actively dating, like, having to be afraid of something happening or, you know, things like that. How do women navigate this?

John [00:29:30]: Do you think they, they, they navigate it by going after bad boys? I'll tell you why. Because, because they're honest with who they are and what they're like, if you can handle him, he's not going to be any different than what he is. But a nice guy is dangerous, right? Because that's why women are more attracted to bad guys as well, is because even guys that are actually like, abusive or. Right. Because it's like, it's a known quantity, it's not an unknown quantity. Now again, I'm not saying that that's a healthy thing or that's a good thing, but I'm just saying that guys that have a tendency to be selfish to say what they want to not be filtered. Those are safer guys. Because you know exactly what you're getting.

Nicole [00:30:09]: Well, I mean, I might be wrong, but I think the guy here in San Diego, the Tiktoker guy, was abusing her before.

John [00:30:16]: Right.

Nicole [00:30:16]: So. But that's.

John [00:30:18]: That's. Yeah, I mean, obviously, like, that indicates that he's Has a propensity to violence. Right. So that's not a good sign. I'm just saying that.

Nicole [00:30:29]: But I don't want women to also hear this and be like, oh, I can avoid murders by dating assholes.

John [00:30:35]: Like, yeah, that's not the idea.

Nicole [00:30:36]: I'm an honest person. Yeah. And someone who has boundaries, who can have hard conversations because, like you said, they're not going to hold things in. They're not going to, like, harbor resentment because they're able to have uncomfortable conversations with you, which, you know, that's what nice guys should be learning how to do is have boundaries and to be honest so that they get out of being a nice guy and they become a kind guy. And women do need to stop dating because they do. Yes, they're honest, but they do tend to be more abusive.

John [00:31:10]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:31:11]: And so, you know, maybe he won't murder you or, you know, as often as the nice guy will, just, you know, the guy is still not the person to be going after as a woman either. And that's what women are really looking for. And nice guys, they're like, you, women don't want me. It's like if you just have boundaries and you're kind, but you have boundaries. Now she feels like you're definitely not going to murder her because you can have tough conversations. You can confront those sort of things with honesty, but you're also kind. You care about people, you care about her. People who care about people don't murder people, typically.

John [00:31:55]: Yeah. So. So you have to look for, as a woman, men that have boundaries, that have healthy boundaries. It's a good indicator. And yeah. I mean, and look for the red flags, which is anger management. Right.

Nicole [00:32:10]: But what about if they act not angry?

John [00:32:13]: But. But that is the. That. That is not healthy boundaries. Right, Right. Because.

Nicole [00:32:19]: Well, like, if they don't have boundaries.

John [00:32:20]: Right. Because they could, like, it's. It's fine to. To be not angry. Right. It's. It's like we talk about all the time about how we did that whole episode on being insecure or being secure, being controlling or dominant. Right. And it's like a insecure, controlling man. Right. That's a dangerous one because he's like, you can't go out to the club. Right. Whereas the secure, dominant man is like, look, you can do what you want. However, I'm not going to be in a relationship with the woman that goes out to clubs.

Nicole [00:32:56]: But you have to mean that too. You have to mean the boundaries.

John [00:33:00]: Exactly. Otherwise it's not a boundary. But you know that he's going to carry through on that, that he's going to follow through. Right. That's how you, you know that he has actual boundaries, whereas the other guy's making threats. Right. So I think that's, you know, how you. How you can tell that, you know.

Nicole [00:33:18]: To a degree, because it's still hard to tell. But like you said, I think it is better if you're with somebody that's honest.

John [00:33:26]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:26]: And isn't already abusive. Like, is a kind person, but has boundaries and is honest.

John [00:33:32]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:33:33]: Well, I mean, why do you think. I mean, you agreed with what I said, but why do you think men are willing to like, basically ruin their lives to do something like that?

John [00:33:45]: Because they have made their entire life this again. A lot of it, too, comes down to when. When I used to teach dating. Pick up. Whatever we'll call it pick up. Let's be honest. All right.

Nicole [00:34:00]: Yeah.

John [00:34:01]: When I used to teach guys how to pick up girl. Okay. I used to always defend it because people like, you're so sleazy. Why would you teach guys that? I'm like, look, these guys are not going to kill anybody. I literally used to say that. Because, look, the guy that goes and kills his. Some girl or his ex, he's the guy that is frustrated or like, or like, shoots up a plate. Like, he's a guy that cannot get laid. All right? He's the guy that's put everything. He has oneitis. He's picked out this one girl, started stalking her, whatever it was, right. And then if she made the mistake of actually dating him, she's like, she's the one, the only one for me. And I have to have this girl. Like, he, He's. He puts his whole life into that. I mean, hell, guys do this. Some guys do this before they have even talked to the girl. I mean, online. Like, girls that they just see pictures of, they become dedicated to.

Nicole [00:34:56]: So they're just delulu.

John [00:34:58]: Yeah. Well, it's because there is some kind instinct in the man that has not become a man. Right. Which means that he hasn't learned his. His way around women, hasn't gained his own confidence that he. He attaches so strongly because it is a built. It's like a good thing that, you know, we're married. I'm fiercely loyal to you. Yeah, yeah. I'm fiercely loyal to you. Right. Like I, like I will kill anybody. Like, I'll, you know, whatever I need to do to protect you. Right? Because like, like I, you know, that, that is that instinct, but it just don't kill me. Okay, but, but, yeah, but, but see that. But it's tampered by my. By my experience in confidence. Because I know that. That even if you didn't like me for some reason or you decided to divorce me or whatever, or like that I'm not destroyed as a human being, that I still have value. Right? Because I have. I know my value as a man. Right. I have proved my value as a man. So men that don't haven't gone through those stages, they're still in a very emotionally immature stage, and they attach with that same instinct to whatever their target is. Just like that. What is that series? Her or me? You. You. You. I know it was some pronoun, but the you, you know, on Netflix. But it's, it's. It's that it's like this obsession that they have.

Nicole [00:36:29]: So that's why they're like murdering people.

John [00:36:30]: If. If she can't be mine, then she can't be anybody. You know, it's like.

Nicole [00:36:33]: Right, but what about like the TikTok guy? Like, I mean, I'm not saying he doesn't still fall into that, but he was popular on TikTok. I'm sure he got attention.

John [00:36:44]: Yeah, no, no, but you saw his comments. Oh, I'm assuming it was him. Maybe it was some joker, but you saw how he responded to people still trying to get attention. Still insecure. So insecure. So insecure.

Nicole [00:36:59]: Fulfill his needs. Like getting the attention on Tick Tock. He had to still look for it because.

John [00:37:06]: No. No amount of attention someone gives you can make you secure.

Nicole [00:37:12]: Okay, well then how does sleeping with a woman give him the confidence to.

John [00:37:17]: Know the guy that learns how to do how to pick up women and whatnot? Yeah, because it's not about sleeping with the women. It's not about. It's about what he learns about himself and the process of doing that, of facing his fears and realizing he's okay. It's about the actual approach. Like a guy going on a dating app and matching on girls wouldn't have. It wouldn't have the same effect. Right. It has the effect because he went and faces fear and he overcame it. And he knows that he can do that anytime he can overcome his fear. He has value of.

Nicole [00:37:50]: What about the men who get stuck in that cycle, though? And they're still insecure?

John [00:37:54]: Yeah, that's. That's a problem that you got to get off that trail because then you have to shift the validation from external to internal because you can, you know, external validation will never give you internal validation. So at. At some point you have to say, okay, look, I've done it. I proved myself. I got it. I'm good. Right.

Nicole [00:38:09]: So a man could have external validation, but if he doesn't have internal, he might murder you.

John [00:38:15]: I. I guess so if. Yeah, because if, if he's. Because, look, most men go out right, when they're. When they're trying to get laid, right. Or whatever. Like they're going through whatever phase in order to prove something to someone or to themselves or to see that they're valuable. And so you can be constantly. Nothing is enough, right? Where you're just constantly. You need that validation in order to still feel like it. And so if you're still stuck there, then, yeah, then you're going to feel like you're. So you kind of trapped me because I just realized that you're saying, well, if a guy, like, now it's like, yeah, so he can learn to trust you and still murder. Yeah, so it is true. But if he learns the skills, I think, in the right way and understand, like, I still think that it's, you know, in that process that you're going to. You're going to become more confident. I think there are some guys that could still be. Have extremely fragile egos and not have, you know, feel like it's all luck. Right?

Nicole [00:39:18]: I wasn't trying to trap you.

John [00:39:19]: No, I know.

Nicole [00:39:19]: I'm just trying to also.

John [00:39:21]: I just realized it myself.

Nicole [00:39:22]: Explain how women have to be. Right? Like, you don't ever feel 100 sure unless you're in a very, like, intimate and deeply connected relationship. Like, you and I are, like, you really just don't ever know.

John [00:39:36]: Well, but that's why, like, that's why, like, you know, to a degree, like, game exists is because women vet men very carefully. So when you're having a conversation with the guy, if he were to come up to you and start talking to you in a club, you know, it's like you, you're. You're kind of. You're seeing how he handles himself socially. You're like, okay, he might be attractive, but, like, how does he talk? Okay, has he had experience with women? Does he feel like he's insecure and he's, you know, has, like, is hiding something. Does it feel like he needs validation or that, like, if, if someone didn't like him, he would like, does he have con. That's why confidence is attractive, because someone who's confident. Right.

Nicole [00:40:15]: It's not psycho.

John [00:40:16]: Someone breaks up with them, they're not like, I need to kill them. Right. So, so that. So it really comes down to the confidence because if you have confidence, you're not going, you know, you're not going.

Nicole [00:40:25]: To psycho because you have confidence knowing that you can find somebody else or there's a better person out there for you.

John [00:40:30]: Right.

Nicole [00:40:31]: In that instance. Yeah. So, I mean, another part of this topic that really gets me thinking is that men are so afraid to date American women because they'll lose all their stuff or they'll get a divorce or whatever. And women literally have to worry about getting murdered and they still go on dates.

John [00:40:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:40:57]: And so, okay, when men are like, I get being frustrated because everybody's entitled to be frustrated. They're entitled to, like, voice their opinions on their own experiences. I get that. But as a woman, like, we genuinely have to be afraid, like I said, at every step of every sort of relationship with a man, am I going to get murdered? And we still do it anyway.

John [00:41:20]: Yeah. Okay. The murdered thing, okay. It's more. You hear about, more story. Right. The actual chance of getting murdered by a man is extremely low. It's. The actual chance of getting murdered, period, is extremely low. Right. So it's definitely higher. Right. You know, than getting murdered by a woman. Right. But being assaulted, being raped, being, you know, attacked. High, for sure. That, that.

Nicole [00:41:50]: And women still date.

John [00:41:51]: Right. So that I would say. But I think if you say murder, then you lose a lot of ears because that's not an accurate.

Nicole [00:41:57]: Well, you lose your life if you get murdered.

John [00:41:59]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:41:59]: But it's the ultimate price to pay. Like if you get divorced. Yeah, yeah. You lose half your stuff, but you're still alive. What I'm trying to say is that if we pay the ultimate price, which. Their ultimate price is getting a divorce.

John [00:42:12]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:42:12]: But we're no longer alive.

John [00:42:13]: Well, but which is more. It's much more likely that you're going to get a divorce than you're going to get murdered by your spouse.

Nicole [00:42:18]: I mean, you're only likely to get a divorce if you, like, got quickly got into a relationship that you really had no business being in at all. Because most people can fix their relationship and it doesn't go straight to divorce, but it involves the man just as Much as it involves the woman.

John [00:42:36]: But more than half of marriages end in divorce. So I mean, it's. You're, you're, you know, I agree with you.

Nicole [00:42:42]: That's easily fixable. You're not easily be able to fix somebody from murdering you. They walk into your house with a gun. How are you going to fix that unless you got your gun?

John [00:42:51]: Being careful of who you. But, but, but I see what you're saying is because if you're just dating someone is that you don't have to make a commitment to someone for them. But.

Nicole [00:42:58]: Right, exactly.

John [00:42:59]: But the percentage chance like, of being killed by a man increases with the, with the relationship status. Right? You're going to be closer to him. You know, that's true.

Nicole [00:43:09]: But the guy that you just randomly.

John [00:43:11]: Date is not going to, you know, it could happen. But he's just a killer. It's not a. He's a, you know.

Nicole [00:43:17]: Scorned lover.

John [00:43:18]: Exactly. Yeah. The scorned lover situation is the.

Nicole [00:43:21]: But I mean, that's. I guess the thing too is like, men don't think about being murdered by other men because there's plenty of men who shoot up places.

John [00:43:29]: It depends on where you're at, right? Like what your situation is and where you live. Like, you know, there are definitely places where. But in general, I'm talking about like.

Nicole [00:43:39]: The kids that shoot up schools, which are typically white males, shoot up churches, typically white males.

John [00:43:46]: Right.

Nicole [00:43:47]: Like, and, or like a movie theater or all those things. Like, those people are also just killing their men that are killing not just women at this point too, but anyone that's near there. Like, what are men doing to help other men not be murderers?

John [00:44:06]: They're rushing you out of the chase building before someone comes and kills everyone.

Nicole [00:44:10]: Yeah, I mean, but I'm saying, like.

John [00:44:12]: No, what are men doing to stop other men?

Nicole [00:44:14]: How can we help these men that are.

John [00:44:16]: Yeah, we like this. We teach them to man the fuck up, right? To. To stop being boys and to be men. Because, because every one of those cases, right, that you're talking about, those mass shootings, it's. It's been an incel guy. It's been a guy that can't get laid. It's been a guy that's been bullied and picked on. It's been a guy that is. Has a victim mindset and has not stepped up and learned how to be a man. Right? Has not faced his fears, has not like done those things. He has not developed himself. Right. So it's weird because those guys actually need like tough love. Not like bullying like that drives them, but like a guy being like, you know, you shut the up and get.

Nicole [00:44:54]: You know, that sounds a little bully.

John [00:44:56]: That's not bullying. That's like, that's, that's encouragement for a man. Right? You know what I mean? It's like, shut the fuck up and do what you need to do. Like, stop being a pussy. Like, that's, that's.

Nicole [00:45:05]: As a woman, I would think that he. Now he's going to come murder me because I said that.

John [00:45:09]: No, I mean, if you tell.

Nicole [00:45:10]: I mean, I'm not saying I would say that as a woman.

John [00:45:12]: I tell that to a man.

Nicole [00:45:13]: But I'm saying even if I was a guy telling another guy that that was fragile like, that I'd be afraid to be murdered.

John [00:45:19]: Because there's a certain thing, like, it's how you're saying it. It's what it's like, you know, that, that it's like, it's like saying you're tough enough to handle this. And I know it because I, I got you. Like, I see you, right? That's, that's what, like, there's a way to do it where it is just abusive and just picking on someone, right? You could say those same words, right? But it's like, you know, well, maybe.

Nicole [00:45:42]: If you're like, come on, like, you can do this. Like, don't be. I'm not gonna say the words.

John [00:45:47]: Yeah, don't be a. Like. But yeah, but you can't say it like that either. That's like, like, that's not really. It's like, you gotta really.

Nicole [00:45:53]: It doesn't help to be like, you can do it.

John [00:45:55]: You'll be like, really mean it.

Nicole [00:45:57]: I mean, I'm not, I'm just saying the words. I'm not saying that I would talk like that, but personally, yeah.

John [00:46:02]: I mean, every call when I have, like, when I have new people coming into the. The coaching, I'm like, I'm like, you know, I'm like, there's on the weekly calls, this is what I tell them. I'm like, there's three reasons, you know, three things that you. States you're in. Either you don't know what to do, you don't know how to do it, or you can't get yourself to do it. And I said, if you don't know what to do, I'll tell you what to do. If you don't know how to do it, I'll help you figure out how to do it. And if you can't get yourself to do It, I'll kick your ass and make you do it. And they're like, they like that part because that's what they want. They want someone to kick their ass and make them do it. They just. I was telling you about Rob that I was on the phone with, and he's like, I'll pay $10,000 to. To call me a pussy and to make me work. I mean, he's reading a lot of David Goggins books right now, but. But it's a thing. It's true. But a. Men need guidance by other men to become men so that they don't do these things. Because a man that has confidence, that knows who he is, as successful as women, he doesn't go and do this stupid shit because he has more. He doesn't want to throw his life away.

Nicole [00:47:05]: The scary thing is though, that, like, you can't force a man to do the things. You can't force a man to better himself. You can't force a man to become a man.

John [00:47:18]: Right.

Nicole [00:47:18]: So, like, we just have to hope and pray that they take the initiative.

John [00:47:24]: I mean, they watch my content or they like. Or whatever. You know, like some people come through there through whatever avenues.

Nicole [00:47:35]: Yeah. I mean, it's just. It's really sad that anybody would feel like they could take someone else's life that. Just because they don't want to be with them or something like that. And that man not only took her life, but the person that she was with.

John [00:47:54]: Yeah. So.

Nicole [00:47:55]: And like, as a man too, does that not also make you feel like I. Now men get a little taste of it, right? Yeah, that's just a little piece of it. Women have to constantly be afraid that they're going to get murdered, even at the phone number part. But men only get the part where am I with a woman where her ex would murder me. That's the only time they can experience what women experience all the time.

John [00:48:18]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:19]: With men.

John [00:48:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:48:20]: And how does that seem?

John [00:48:23]: That's why, like, a crazy ex is a red flag for men. Dating a woman is like a crazy ex.

Nicole [00:48:30]: Guy is definitely a red flag.

John [00:48:32]: That's like a. Whoa. You like? It's one of my coaching class. He was just talking about this. This woman that's from Mexico or something and her ex boyfriend was a drug dealer or something and he went to jail and. And I was like, yeah, stay away from that. Like, I like, no, sir. I don't care how good she looks. She's off the table. Nope, not goodbye.

Nicole [00:48:55]: Yeah, that is definitely rolling the dice.

John [00:48:59]: Call me when you're in the witness protection program.

Nicole [00:49:03]: But yeah, I mean, like, see, men are. They wouldn't deal with a woman like that. Women, if they had that mindset, though, they wouldn't go on dates. Like, or they could be. I mean, right. Like, again, like I said, really even talk to guys.

John [00:49:17]: You're not going to get murdered. Right? I really. You just abuse, battered, like, whatever, you.

Nicole [00:49:23]: Know, I understand, but you just told that guy not to even mess with this woman because her ex was a drug dealer and went to jail.

John [00:49:29]: Right? Right.

Nicole [00:49:29]: Nothing has even happened.

John [00:49:31]: Right. Yeah, but that's. I mean, that's different. That's like a.

Nicole [00:49:34]: But what I'm trying to say is women could easily, like, be like, no, we don't date men because they could all murder us. But we don't. And that's why when I see the divorce thing, like you even said, yeah, that's if you get married, that's if you get to the point where you got married is the only way you're going to get a divorce. Only way you're going to lose half your stuff. A woman could be dating a guy for six months and he could murder her. Like, again, it's not high probability.

John [00:50:01]: Yeah, but, but she could. I see what you're saying. She could get.

Nicole [00:50:04]: She doesn't even have to be married to him.

John [00:50:06]: He could be emotionally unstable and then, like, he can't handle the breakup and whatever. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:12]: And then be like, if I can't be with you, then no one can.

John [00:50:15]: Right? Yeah, but I mean, you should see the red flags before you get that. Like, like the, the longer you go into the relationship with someone like that, the higher the probability becomes, then it actually becomes a real.

Nicole [00:50:29]: You see the red flags and then you leave. And then he murders you in your sleep with your boyfriend, your new boyfriend.

John [00:50:33]: No, if you see the red flags, you should see them before you've gotten into like, that deep.

Nicole [00:50:39]: What are the red flags?

John [00:50:41]: The red flags, like I said, like.

Nicole [00:50:43]: Lay them out again.

John [00:50:45]: Insecurity is the biggest red flag.

Nicole [00:50:46]: Okay. That's the biggest one.

John [00:50:49]: Right.

Nicole [00:50:49]: And then if he's a nice guy.

John [00:50:50]: Yeah. Or abuse, which is insecure. Right. Like. Yeah.

Nicole [00:50:55]: So insecure. So look for confidence, true confidence. Because sometimes people fake confidence.

John [00:51:00]: Yeah, exactly. Fake confidence is the most insecure, the.

Nicole [00:51:03]: Most scary, the most murderous.

John [00:51:05]: It's the most insane, like pretending to be, you know, but that. But it's also easily detectable. The one thing you can't fake is confidence.

Nicole [00:51:13]: True.

John [00:51:14]: So true.

Nicole [00:51:14]: Confidence. Confidence.

John [00:51:15]: Yeah, but, yeah, insecurity is the biggest red flag.

Nicole [00:51:20]: Yeah, I just wanted to talk about it because, I mean, it is crazy to even know somebody that has a story like that. Granted, still, like, he knows a person and you know the person. Like, you know him.

John [00:51:30]: But almost every woman has a sexual assault story, so.

Nicole [00:51:33]: Right. Like, things like that still happen. And the whole reason I brought this up, like I said, is because men, like, on dating so hard because they're afraid of divorce, but they don't really realize the risk that women are taking dating men. Like, maybe them themselves aren't murderers, obviously are gonna do something horrible like rape somebody or whatever, but can we even say that? Are we gonna have to.

John [00:51:59]: I mean that out? No, we're not getting views anyway, so.

Nicole [00:52:02]: Oh, my God.

John [00:52:04]: I thought about the same thing. I was like, I don't care.

Nicole [00:52:08]: But, like, they. I don't think they understand that until, like I said, they're. They see a story and they're like, oh, he got murdered because he was with that girl.

John [00:52:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:52:21]: You know, if I think everybody.

John [00:52:24]: I'm gonna have to do a background check.

Nicole [00:52:25]: Open. Oh, my God.

John [00:52:28]: Are there any open cases of, like, Are there some threats like, oh, okay.

Nicole [00:52:37]: You think I'm gonna murder you?

John [00:52:39]: No, not you. Someone that you dated. I gotta. To do a background check now and be like, all right, what's the. You know, Gotta run some background checks on guys that you've dated, see if they got a criminal record or.

Nicole [00:52:53]: I'm not worried about any of them. That's also why I kept a box cutter in my purse every date I went on. Because I'm like, you trying to murder me? I'm gonna go down trying to murder you at the same time. Like, I'm not going down without a fight. But, you know, I'm still outside, so. Got here. But yeah, I mean, it just. Men talk a lot about their struggles, and I understand it, but. And they'll still probably be like, like you said, it doesn't happen that often, but it does happen. Well, yeah, a scary amount.

John [00:53:23]: The threat of real violence or an aggressive response from a man is high, especially in. When you're in an isolated situation with him.

Nicole [00:53:34]: Right, right.

John [00:53:35]: That is. That is true. That is true. Right. Like, that's.

Nicole [00:53:38]: And it could even be a random man going down the street. Like, women can't go out and walk around at night like men can. Like, they have to be so much more aware of things. Like, we can't even sit in our car without making sure that it's locked in a parking lot or seeing if there's a car next to us that has some random person sitting in next to it because they might try to take you. Granted, these things don't happen often, but there's a scare. They don't happen to men either. Men are never sitting in their car. Like, some girl might jump in and carjack me right now. Or, hey, I was getting into my car and there was a creepy guy in the car next to me. I think he's gonna kidnap me. Like, they never think about those things. They don't even realize the freedom that they have.

John [00:54:21]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:21]: In this way that, like, women don't. They don't. We don't have that luxury.

John [00:54:26]: There are a lot of psycho women, though. Every guy's dated a psycho, has had a psycho ex that is, like, done.

Nicole [00:54:33]: Some saying stuff or showed up at his store getting kidnapped. They're not getting.

John [00:54:38]: Yeah, she's probably not going to kill you.

Nicole [00:54:39]: I'll say. Graped grapes. They're not getting, you know, murdered as often. And so.

John [00:54:47]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:54:48]: And we're still going on dates with men, so men need to man up and get over their fear of divorce. When women are out here potentially risking being murdered. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying.

John [00:55:05]: I don't know if I can equate to two of them, but I get what you're saying. I get, like, it is a real. You know, I don't think the. The risk of divorce and murder are not the same. But I get what you're saying. But they're. But. But a woman is.

Nicole [00:55:19]: Divorce is way more preventable ahead of time.

John [00:55:23]: Murder is also preventable.

Nicole [00:55:25]: Not really. If someone has a gun, you don't.

John [00:55:29]: You don't get into a relationship with that person. Why you let it get that far?

Nicole [00:55:34]: John, Some people don't. Like, they're hiding it.

John [00:55:38]: I know, but, like, if you are properly dating, vetting a person you know, there's like, you know, someone who is.

Nicole [00:55:47]: No, they broke up. This woman broke up with the guy because he's bad news. And then. So what are you supposed to do? You're like, if you. If you're in a relationship and you know a person, break up with them because he might murder you before you.

John [00:55:59]: Get into the committed relationship, before you move in.

Nicole [00:56:01]: Obsessed with you. That's fine even from the beginning and murder you.

John [00:56:05]: No, that's unlikely.

Nicole [00:56:08]: I don't think so.

John [00:56:09]: That's really unlikely that you just go on a date with a guy and he murders you because he's obsessed.

Nicole [00:56:13]: I'M sure I'm gonna find an article.

John [00:56:15]: I'm sure I'm gonna put it in the caption on the percentage of women that are murdered by a romantic interest.

Nicole [00:56:24]: Is the thing is, I'm sure I could find one for all these things. Look, just met a guy, murdered. I'm sure I could find one.

John [00:56:31]: Sure.

Nicole [00:56:31]: In a relationship, murdered.

John [00:56:33]: Right.

Nicole [00:56:33]: Broke up with him, murder.

John [00:56:35]: But if you combine all those together, right.

Nicole [00:56:38]: You got three murders and you take the risk.

John [00:56:41]: Right. It's. It's. I'm sure it's far less I'm for. I'm sure you're far more likely to die on a flight, on an airplane. But you get on airplanes every day.

Nicole [00:56:50]: I understand, but here's also the thing that I'm trying to say. I'd rather have $1 left to my name. $1, right.

John [00:56:57]: And not be murdered.

Nicole [00:56:58]: And not be murdered. I'd rather have one freaking dollar. And these men. But there's a lot of guys leaving with more than a dollar and they're still crying. But I'm telling you, If I had $1.

John [00:57:08]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:57:09]: And I was still alive, I would kiss the ground.

John [00:57:14]: But see, there's a lot of guys that are the opposite, thinking they'd rather die. That's why they kill. Because they'd rather die than not be with their true love.

Nicole [00:57:25]: Your true love would want to be with you if that was your true love.

John [00:57:29]: Right?

Nicole [00:57:30]: But rejection, someone needs. Rejection is not to help these people. Like, they need help. Like, you can't just be murdering people. Like, there's. There's something going on.

John [00:57:38]: There's a lot of crazy. I mean, there's. I think there's more crazy ex women stories than crazy X Men stories. But women don't. Yeah, but women don't take it as far. They just like, slash your tires and.

Nicole [00:57:50]: Yeah, I'd rather have a flat tire. Then no more life. That's all I'm saying.

John [00:57:56]: But if women were as big as men, they would kill men.

Nicole [00:58:01]: I don't think so.

John [00:58:03]: If women had the testosterone of men.

Nicole [00:58:04]: I don't think women would give up their lives, like, for some man to reject.

John [00:58:09]: You never had a psycho ex girlfriend?

Nicole [00:58:12]: You know, I dated someone that had a psycho ex girlfriend.

John [00:58:15]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:16]: I called the police in front of her.

John [00:58:20]: Yeah.

Nicole [00:58:20]: Or like, she was on the phone and me and my friend went to the police station because she was harassing me, Right? And he put her on speakerphone and she was like, how long would I have to go to jail if I kept harassing her? She stopped because she actually saw me out in person and she was like, hi. And I was like, hey. And then she was all. She was like a Chihuahua. They bark a lot, like Toto, but they don't do anything. But that's the thing is like, a woman might say stuff or she might like show up somewhere or she might try to act tough, but she ain't murdering you most of the time.

John [00:58:55]: Yeah. I mean, I feel like there's a. If she could, she would, but not. I don't know. Women think about it differently.

Nicole [00:59:02]: And also I'm thinking about it, if I was on a phone call with a man and he said that to a police officer, I changed my name because I would think he was going to murder me. Like, if a man told me what she said, how long would I have to go to jail if I kept harassing her, I'd be like, I'm moving states and I'm getting a new ID and I'm never like, I'm throwing my phone away like that. Like, I would be afraid that that person's actually going to do something.

John [00:59:31]: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:33]: Does that make sense?

John [00:59:34]: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Nicole [00:59:37]: So men are scary. The end. I just want men to realize they're still gonna probably be in the comments being like, yeah, like this doesn't happen. But it happens.

John [00:59:51]: I mean, it does, but it's.

Nicole [00:59:53]: You even knew exactly what had happened.

John [00:59:55]: Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, that's true. I didn't know that what exactly would happen, but. Because.

Nicole [00:59:59]: Right.

John [00:59:59]: Cliche at this point.

Nicole [01:00:01]: And it happens. It doesn't matter if it's cliche, it's murder.

John [01:00:05]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:05]: And I think that woman had a kid. Didn't he say she had a kid? Like, even the man who left his own kid to now have no parents. The one who lived here, the tick tock guy.

John [01:00:16]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:17]: That kid has no parents because you killed the kid's mom.

John [01:00:23]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:00:23]: And then now you're going to jail. Like, you're not gonna have that kid.

John [01:00:27]: No.

Nicole [01:00:27]: And then that guy who killed the lady while she was sleeping and the guy. She had a kid.

John [01:00:33]: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole [01:00:38]: What?

John [01:00:39]: Men fiercely protect what is theirs, but not children, obviously. Well, part of it is like they'll kill their. Their children too. Like a lot of times.

Nicole [01:00:48]: Yeah. That also is, like, terrifying.

John [01:00:50]: Here's another scenario where it happens pretty commonly. Man loses his job, he goes home, kills his wife and kids. That happens. I mean, obviously not super frequently, but that's a common.

Nicole [01:01:00]: Right. Because if he's miserable, he has to kill everybody.

John [01:01:03]: No. If he can't support them. If he can't support. Take care of them, then.

Nicole [01:01:09]: Then they should just die.

John [01:01:10]: Yeah, that's a. That's how.

Nicole [01:01:12]: Or ask her to get a job, and you guys can both have a job. I think a woman would prefer that than getting murdered.

John [01:01:18]: I know.

Nicole [01:01:18]: And killing your kids.

John [01:01:20]: Yeah. Because he feels like a failure. So he feels like. It's like, you know, that's what goes on there. It happens.

Nicole [01:01:26]: That's even more scary that if a man feels like he fails.

John [01:01:30]: Right.

Nicole [01:01:31]: He's gonna kill everybody.

John [01:01:33]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:01:33]: Because he feels like his entire family. You just ended this by making women more afraid. Jesus Christ.

John [01:01:44]: I'm just saying it happens. Right.

Nicole [01:01:45]: I'm like, women put the. We might get murdered and we still go out there. And then you're like, well, even if you have a family, he might kill you all if he gets fired.

John [01:01:55]: But it doesn't. It doesn't happen to people who listen to this podcast and subscribe, especially people who put itunes, reviews, you know, on our podcast.

Nicole [01:02:03]: Look, this is serious business.

John [01:02:04]: I'm serious, like.

Nicole [01:02:06]: And I feel so bad for the families who have.

John [01:02:09]: Right.

Nicole [01:02:09]: Dealt with this, because it's really not fair.

John [01:02:12]: Right. But I am serious, because if you learn relationship skills, then. And you understand how to interact, then I get it.

Nicole [01:02:20]: But I think it does need to be acknowledged that even as a woman, you can understand and still come across the wrong guy and be in a scary situation.

John [01:02:30]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:30]: Even if you're not murdered, there's still, like you said, plenty of women who have stories of men doing things to them that is very traumatizing and very bad.

John [01:02:38]: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. You have to be. And it's a fear that men don't have to have.

Nicole [01:02:44]: Right. At all. They don't. They're not worried about that.

John [01:02:46]: Yeah. Just. I mean, there's psycho women, but again, it's not as, you know, not as.

Nicole [01:02:54]: On the same level.

John [01:02:56]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:02:57]: But don't worry. Not every man will murder you or do bad things. And if you see one, just stare at him. And eat a napkin.

John [01:03:07]: And eat a napkin. Or poop your pants. Yeah, just poop your pants. That would get rid of.

Nicole [01:03:13]: Just look crazier than he is.

John [01:03:14]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:03:15]: And carry a box cutter in your purse when you go on dates. But, you know, just to be safe, don't, like, break it out for no reason.

John [01:03:21]: Yeah. If you use the box cutter, you better. You better use it for lethal purpose because you don't want to stick someone to the box cutter and piss them off. So that's the thing. Yeah. You want to make sure you do finish.

Nicole [01:03:37]: You.

John [01:03:38]: Yeah. Then you got to finish the job. You can't just piss them off more. You gotta make sure you're ready to finish the job, you know, or just.

Nicole [01:03:44]: Get a taser or a Mace. That's a little bit more acceptable. Yeah, but, yeah, not the Protect yourself. Like, I'm not gonna tell women not to protect themselves because, yeah, it's not always. You saw, like, signs to see, like, you're right. The first and most important step is to have good relationship skills and notice red flags and notice concerning behavior. But crazy stuff still happens. So protect yourself.

John [01:04:13]: Guys will be chameleons and they'll, like, you won't find out.

Nicole [01:04:15]: Right, Exactly. That's another scary part, too, is like.

John [01:04:18]: You have some friends that, like. It's like, then the guy.

Nicole [01:04:21]: There's one guy who literally, I would. I would be, like, afraid that he could be.

John [01:04:25]: Yeah, he could be a killer for sure.

Nicole [01:04:27]: Yeah, exactly like.

John [01:04:28]: Yeah.

Nicole [01:04:29]: So protect yourself. That's all I gotta say. Protect yourself. Women do what you need to do, but men should empathize with women that this is something that, yeah, they don't have to deal with thinking about as often as women do.

John [01:04:45]: I agree. Yeah.

Nicole [01:04:46]: And they still trying to go on a date with you, so they must like you enough to risk being murdered. It's all gonna say.

John [01:04:55]: Well, they go on dates with the murderers too, so are they trying.

Nicole [01:04:58]: No, they don't. That's. That's a whole nother thing. Like, that's for attention. That's for attention.

John [01:05:05]: All right, I guess we should wrap it up here.

Nicole [01:05:07]: We don't have an end of the thing.

John [01:05:08]: Yeah, we don't realize we already talked about it, but, yeah, we'll have to hash out our thing more. I think we got a better, like. Feels like it's more baked now. It's like, it makes more sense.

Nicole [01:05:20]: So moral of the story, though, for today. Don't murder people.

John [01:05:24]: Yeah, don't murder people.

Nicole [01:05:25]: Get help if you need help. If you're feeling big emotions, get help.

John [01:05:28]: But murder that, like, button. Oh, my God, on this podcast and go to itunes and leave your. Leave us your thoughts review. I was gonna say death threat, but leave us your review.

Nicole [01:05:43]: Don't. I know we're gonna have to edit so much stuff out of this.

John [01:05:46]: It's fine. It's fine. But yeah, we'll read it on air no matter what it says.

Nicole [01:05:55]: What are you trying to say? Don't. You're like, calling the murderers to come comment. You're like, no matter what it says, you can tell us.

John [01:06:04]: Ah.

Nicole [01:06:05]: This is not supposed to be a call to get the murderers watching. John, forget everything I said.

John [01:06:14]: Bye.

Nicole [01:06:17]: Through every fault we find our way.