John: It was a guy talking about how one of his female clients got murdered. John just replies, "Oh my God, that's so horrible. Was it an angry ex?" And he said yes, the guy came in and killed her while she was sleeping and killed her new boyfriend. That man not only took her life but the person that she was with as a man too. Does that not also make you feel like, now men get a little taste of it, right? That's the only time they can experience what women experience all the time with men. Women constantly be afraid that they're going to get murdered, even at the phone number part.

Nicole: Beyond the perfect, we discover through our flaws. We complete each other better than perfect. We stay through every fault. We find our way. All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with you how two imperfect people helping each other grow equals one better than perfect relationship. There you go. All right, and we're back, back to back again.

John: But yeah, I guess we don't have... I mean, besides that, we sat here for God knows how long talking about the one we just were talking about. We're still trying to figure it out. Like, last episode was a little bit scattered, but because it is hard, it's a hard thing to really figure this out and not say it like an idiot, like I'm saying it because I'm like... I mean, it's raw, it's brutish.

Nicole: It's brutish, is what I'm saying. And you're trying to tell women what to do, though, in a masculine way. So that's why it's confusing.

John: Yeah, it's well, yeah, because I'm just... I'm still baking, and I'm still trying to figure out what does it actually come down to. We'll have to come with fully baked ideas next time. Maybe we can get some help from the audience too. Maybe they can give ideas of what it is, you know. Well, like you said, I think it's hard because a lot of people are 50/50.

Nicole: Yeah, probably going to be a lot of people in a situation like us. And it's two questions. It's, if you're a man that's a sole provider, what should your wife be doing with her time? If you're in a 50/50 relationship, if you were to, like, or that's a good question. Is if you were going to become the sole provider, what expectations would you have of your partner?

John: Right. Okay, I think that can be slightly dangerous, especially men who are like fantasizing about it, and it's not realistic.

Nicole: Well, for women too, because it sounds like they'll probably just want their wives to stay home and just turn into sexual beings, and that's all that they would need to do.

John: Okay, I don't think that's... I don't think a lot of guys would say that that's what they would want. Just, you know, available at all times.

Nicole: That might be fun for a little while, but it's going to get old real quick. Like, so well, I think you have to actually say that because, like I said, having guys fantasize about something, you know, they're going to be people in the comments that are just talking about that. But the question is for men and women too, right? Because the question is for women, like, if a man was going to take over the finances and working, relieve you from your job, you don't have to work anymore, what would you do for that? Like, what would it be worth to you? Like, or what would you then think would be the appropriate thing to do? Because that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of. Is like, what is...

John: I get what you're saying, but I also think that people who aren't in it can't fully understand because there is something about... Because plenty of women would be like, "Oh, I'll do all the housework stuff," or whatever, because they just don't want to work. And that's true, but they'll eventually not work for long enough where it's not like gonna just be the exact same over and over.

Nicole: Yeah, it's more like if you marry a wealthy man, and he works, and he has maid service and the cook and all the things, so there's no domestic work, then what do you do?

John: Well, I'm sure they'd say go to the gym so that they look nice, and then do the things that we've already discussed. But that's the real thing we're trying to get to. Is like, what is the actual... Because we talked about that they would read books and things like that.

Nicole: I really don't think that they would say that.

John: Yeah, I don't think so. But it's like, what does the supporting look like? That's the hard thing to answer. And what we talked about not on camera was that, in our own situation, it seemed like you need me to need you more.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And you have said that before, and that's what I struggle with the most. Is like, asking for help or, you know, being needy. Because as women, that's just something that we have a hard time with a lot of the time. Is, you know, asking for help and appearing needy. Like I talked about in the last episode. But it seemed like that is more so what you needed. I'm not saying it's the only thing, but it's probably the thing that you've been missing compared to the other things that you were talking about.

John: Yeah, yeah. I think so. I think that's true. But because, like the ending of the last episode, you just blew my mind, being like, "Ask for a hug instead of give a hug." I'm like, "What?" Like, I would have never came to that on my own thinking.

Nicole: Yeah, like even if though you told me to think the opposite, right?

John: Yeah, that my mind would have never been like, "Ask for a hug instead of just giving a hug." But so that's why too, in our whole conversation, like actually talking about what the problem is, or what the fear really is, or, you know, like even a guy being like, "I'm afraid I'm going to be pulling the weight in the entire relationship or putting in more in the relationship than you are." Like, that's the fear. That's the real thing. And people hide the fear in a lot of ways, like we talked about, by being defensive and being like, "I do this, this, and this," because the fear behind that is really, "I'm doing all these things, and I feel like you're not doing enough, and I'm afraid that I'm going to be the one pulling this relationship forward for the rest of my life."

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. Which boils out to not feeling appreciated because that's what... But that's the fear. Exactly, that's the fear. When you talk about it as a fear, it also triggers the part in a woman that is emotional and nurturing and caring to dive into that more. And that's where you were getting it wrong too, with the whole, "Well, you have eight hours a day, what are you doing?" Because that's very like... You want a... I'm just trying logically lay it out so that it's understood as an argument. It's like, because at a very logical level, this is not the way to talk about it if a man...

John: If a man is working eight hours a day and a woman is not, then she should be doing something. Like, if she didn't have to work those eight hours, she's given eight hours, so some of that time should be going back to him in some way. The thing is, women also don't look like, and especially too, if you are a man who's like, "I'm going to provide," why are you even looking at it as, "Well, you would be at work for 8 hours anyway"? Telling that to a woman would be like, "I'd rather just go work eight hours than if you're expecting me to work while not working." Does that make sense? I know what you're trying to say, but the fact that you're presenting it that way just makes a woman automatically want to go to, "Well, I'd rather just go to work 'cause I don't even know what he's talking about."

Nicole: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to present it that way. I'm just trying to say logically, you can't marry a woman and be like, "I want you to stay home and take care of the house and take care of the kids," and then be like, "Oh, but you would have been at work for 8 hours, so what are you doing with your 8 hours?" You know what I mean? Like, that doesn't even... That's not a stay-at-home mom; that's a stay-at-home but work in a different way. And I get what you're trying to say. I'm not saying she shouldn't care about supporting her husband, investing in the relationship in that time, however that looks. I guess maybe that's the thing that we've been missing, is using those words because that's what the truth is, right? Like, she should be investing in the relationship, however that looks. That might look like cleaning up the house if you don't have enough income to pay for a maid. It might look like taking care of the kids. Even if you have a maid, it still has to be clean; laundry still has to be done. But it might look like different varying degrees of that. But it's like, what is the thing that needs to be, you know? But if you're talking to women, you do have to say it in the right way because you're talking like you're talking to men.

John: I know because I'm just trying to logically lay out the framework because it's... I still don't have it quite... I mean, we're getting closer to it, but yeah, I understand. But you also have to understand that you have to do it in the right way for the right audience. We're not the same, no, no, no. And the thing that you want is more softness, more feminine qualities. So you will not get that by being like, "Did you clock in your eight hours today? What were you doing? I saw you on the couch doing TikTok. You should have been reading a book on how to support me." Like, yeah, I get the idea behind it, but that is not going to garner feminine energy that you actually want, right? You know what I mean?

Nicole: Right. But by being vulnerable and speaking about the actual fear you have, like, "I'm afraid because I feel like I've been putting in a lot to our relationship and investing a lot in our relationship, and it doesn't feel very equal, and I'm afraid that that is how it's always going to be or it's going to get worse." Then, you know, I'm saying some women might still be defensive, but a woman is more likely to be like, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I don't want you to think that I'm not invested in this. I will definitely work on that. Like, how can I support you? Or are there certain things that you're missing or things like that?" You know what I mean? It's easier. That helps guide the emotional to a beneficial place. And you know where this is coming from, real quick before we, like, okay, like, into like... Because look, I've been in this situation in the past, right?

John: Right, where I'm like, not only are you not supporting me, you're actively sabotaging me. So why the fuck am I working for like 10, 12 hours a day, and you're watching TV or whatever the hell you're doing, and then making my job harder and giving me all kinds of shit instead of actually supporting me? Right, like creating more problems for me to deal with on top of it. So I'm like, look, if I'm working 10, 12 hours, then you should be like spending that time trying to support me, trying to figure out how you can make my life easier, not harder. Not just thinking it's free. Like, I don't care if you watch some TV or whatever, have some time to relax, go to the spa, whatever you want to do, but just make sure that you're at least putting in the investment to make me feel like I'm appreciated and admired and giving and like taking pressure and stress off of me that can be relieved so that I can function better to make everything better for everyone. That's right. That's where it comes from.

Nicole: If you had just said that... But I'm saying, like, but you know what I'm saying? But that does that make more sense now, like putting it that way? It always made sense in that way, but, and I hear what you're saying, right? And I think it is important to acknowledge that there probably was some of that past in this whole conversation. Been in that situation for a long time, right?

John: Right, exactly. But like, I think it's important to acknowledge that that also, that fear of what you've already experienced might have exacerbated this. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying there aren't things that I need to work on, no, no. But at the same time, sometimes these experiences from our past pour into our future, and it, our brain thinks you're in the same situation, but you're not.

Nicole: No, yeah. And it's not to equate it. Like I said, you're wonderful. You do tons of stuff for me. Like, I appreciate you 100%. But I get exactly what you're saying. Your situation too, I feel like, was very extreme, though, too. And that's why earlier, when we did the other episode, I was like, "I'm doing way more than most women are doing, and I'm still confused." So, I'm genuinely trying to figure it out. But your instance was like almost the exact opposite. Like, there wasn't... And that's also why you wanted it so bad, right? Is like, they weren't putting in any sort of...

John: Yeah, it's just that, I guess, as a man, you want the woman you're with, right? And that's why I was saying from before, to be thinking in her head while you're working at work or whatever, if you're going into the office while she's sitting at home, "Ah, isn't this nice? I don't have to go into the office. My husband's so great. What could I do for him today to show him that I'm so appreciative that I don't have to work and that I can just, you know, be myself?" Like, maybe I'll put on some sexy lingerie, or maybe I'll write him a nice little note, or maybe I'll make him his favorite dinner. You know, I mean, because it's like, that's what you, as a man, are hoping that your wife is thinking, right? That she's appreciative.

John: Right, she's spending time, like you're spending time. When you're in the office and you're working, you're thinking, "I'm doing this for my wife or my family." And you're hoping that she's at home thinking, "What can I do for him?" If you feel like that's not the case, that's when you feel like there's something wrong, especially if it's actively sabotaging it. But I'm telling you right now, women are doing that more than you think. They just might not show it every single day. If a woman's staying at home, she does understand the greatness of being able to do that. I'm not saying that she shouldn't show her husband more, or there couldn't be things to be improved upon, but women in those situations, I feel...

Nicole: Like for the most part, do appreciate it. There are some that take advantage of it, but I think that those people got married for the wrong reason. It's easy to take advantage of it without even seeing it because when you go to work and you clock in, it's easy to say, "Oh, I'm here to work. I'm supposed to be spending my hours working." When you're at home, it's not easy to think, "Oh, how can I do some stuff for my husband?" Viewing it as work is damaging.

John: Well, yeah, of course, it's not work. That's why describing it that way would make a woman view it as work, whereas it should be described as out of love and lifting up your husband because the terminology does matter. People try to act like the words don't matter. They do actually matter.

Nicole: They watch our TikTok clips and take them out of context all the time because it's just a clip. Words do matter. I'm not saying that you're always going to be perfect and say the right thing, but they do matter. The way you described it before, with it being like, "I have eight hours at work. What are you doing with your eight hours?" That does make a woman feel like it's work. Love shouldn't feel like work. Emotional support and caring shouldn't feel like work. As a feminine woman, it has to come from a place of softness, vulnerability, femininity. But there has to be self-accountability for a woman to acknowledge, "I'm not working. He's working. I have free time, but I should be spending this time in a way that is accountable, that is also investing in the relationship just as much as he is by working and doing the other things that he does."

John: I'm just using the crude words of a brutish man, that's all.

Nicole: But you can't say that to women. It's just logically because I can't work it out unless I put it into the logical framework as a man. If you don't explain it in a way that a woman can understand, you're just confusing her more. Once we have it fully baked, then we'll do that. We're baking it little by little as we're talking about it.

John: Yeah, but it's got to be a lot of the other ideas we have are fully baked.

Nicole: Right, so not all of them. Let's see if today's is fully baked. John, I mean, I guess we'll have to come up with the title. I'm just going to dive in. I'm not going to give a title because we can just figure it out. But John sent me a text message the other day from a guy in your coaching, or like your community.

John: Yeah.

Nicole: And it was a guy talking about how one of his female clients got murdered. John just replies, "Oh my God, that's so horrible. Was it an angry ex?" And he said yes, the guy came in and killed her while she was sleeping and killed her new boyfriend. When he sent me that, and the fact that John even knew that that's what it was, I was like, I kind of want to do a whole episode on the reality of women being afraid of men. It's not just when you're dating and you don't know a guy, and you have to be extra cautious. I've already talked about that. It's when you've dated them, and if you broke up with them, and what they're going to do. You really never know as a woman. I'm not saying that men never get murdered by women that are upset with them, but it is majority men murdering women that they're upset with. It really does make dating and relationships difficult for women. It's different if you're with somebody like you, where I'm like, "Okay, John would never murder me." But sometimes you don't fully know, and you're putting yourself out there, or you have to be afraid of how to communicate with a man because you don't know what he's capable of. Even our daughter, when we went on the cruise, she was like, "I don't know what to say to this guy because what if he gets really upset with me?" She didn't think he was going to murder her, but he could throw off the... She's already, at 13, thinking about that. Kids have been fallen off or been thrown off of cruise ships. I know it seems really extreme, but you don't know. This is just some random kid; he's 13, he's bigger than her, he could throw her off a cruise. But men don't live their life worrying about this. They might be like, "Oh, she's so crazy, she's going to hurt me or something," but it's normally women aren't typically murdering. But women genuinely, it never goes away because it's either the beginning, you have to make sure you don't get murdered, right? While you're in the relationship, if he maybe becomes abusive or something, when you break up, you have to worry. And who knows how long after you break up because there might be some ex-boyfriend that I have that wants to murder me right now. Maybe, I don't know. He probably would have done it by now, but I'm just saying that I don't think men fully realize what dating and being in a relationship is like for a woman.

Diego: Oh yeah, yeah, who's the TikTok guy? That yeah, the TikTok guy walked into his ex's, right, their apartment together. They have a kid, and he shot both her and the guy that was there, yeah, after they had already broken up. Yeah, why do you think men do that?

Nicole: I think because they don't want her to be with anybody else. I think it's typically men who got heartbroken and wanted to still be with that person, even though they mistreated that person. They don't want her to be with anybody else, and they are willing to throw their life away probably because they're like, well, she's the love of my life. If she doesn't want to be with me, she can't be with anybody, and then he's like, I have nothing to live for anyway if I murder this woman, so I'll just go to jail. That's what I would think.

Diego: Yeah, yeah, I think that's accurate. I think that it's like a twisted version of what we were talking about in the last episode, of like a man just like, his whole identity and purpose and value comes from making that woman happy, right? And so when a man feels like he can no longer do that, and he hasn't shifted his purpose, and it still is that, then his solution is to kill her, I guess. I mean, like, and to kill the guy that she's with, right? Because he can't succeed at his mission, you know what I mean?

Nicole: Yeah, but there's also another layer. Okay, yeah, and I'm going to talk about that guy that killed his whole family so he could be with his mistress. I forget what his name was, that bald guy who they found the kids.

Diego: Bald guy, are you talking about Peterson? He was bald, I believe, and he killed his pregnant wife and his two kids. They found, I think, the kids' bodies in some silo thing with the liquid.

Nicole: Yeah, could kill his entire family just to live another life.

Diego: Yeah, I think that's a different motive in that case because that's not really like the...

Nicole: But is it? The motive to love some other woman and to not be in trouble? I'm saying that this is like another layer to it. This is a different layer. A lot of guys don't... well, I mean, the layer like joining is murder.

Diego: No, it's not murder. That's... they're murder clues. Like, what do these stories have in common? Murder, that's it.

Nicole: Yeah, right, correct. But it is true, but the underlying thing is the lack of emotional control that men display, and that's why that's such an unattractive trait in men. If you see a man that has a lack of emotional control, women are hardwired to not be attracted to that guy. But now they're good at hiding it, and they're just actually a lot of times...

Diego: The really quiet ones, yeah. How many times has a guy murdered anybody, yeah, and it's always been the quiet ones.

Nicole: Oh, why do you think that's why women value honesty so much?

Diego: Right, tell me you're going to murder me or not. Well, yeah, I mean, well, okay, which is more dangerous? The guy that you know he's pissed off, but he's being polite and pretending like he's not pissed off, right? Or the guy that says, "I'm pissed off"?

Nicole: Right, the guy that's trying to hide it.

Diego: More, yeah, the guy who's trying to hide it. I thought you said that was not trying to hide it.

Nicole: Yeah, the guy that's trying to hide it, right. So now, obviously, I mean, they're both red flags, right? It's both red flags, I mean, depending on the situation, right? It shouldn't be a... you know, everyone gets angry, unfortunately.

Diego: But oh, do they? Well, except for me, not me. Hardly ever. I've been angry once.

Nicole: No, once? No, not... I don't get angry very often because I've learned to... But what you're saying is the honesty is, you at least know he's telling the truth. He's not harboring anything typically that the other person would be shoving down and then later taking out, exactly.

Diego: Yeah, on a more extreme level, genuine. But it is a crazy... But you're right, though. I mean, that women do have to be careful of it. Well, it's funny because I did a video too where I was talking about how like, why do guys always ask why do women give me their phone number, and then when I text them, they don't respond? And the answer usually is because she's afraid to not give you her phone number. You go up to a girl on the street, and you're like, hey, what's your number, you're cute, whatever. She might not like you at all, but she gives you the phone number, and she gives you a real phone number because some women have given guys fake numbers, and the guy types it in and texts them right there, and then gets pissed off because he's like, why'd you give me a fake number? What is this? Right? And so a lot of times, women are giving a guy a number and not responding because they just don't want to have a conflict. You don't know what he's going to do.

Nicole: Right, exactly, you know why? Yeah, because you're in person with him, face to face. Right, if he wants to do something, he's right there.

Diego: Right, at least if you give him your number and you ignore him later, you don't have to see him ever again.

Nicole: Right, and guys get upset too when they say, oh, women are leading them on. They're like, I mean, this is why women put guys in the friend zone, I think, is because they're safe in the friend zone.

Diego: Right, from being murdered. Yeah, think about it. Like, look, you know, it's weird that women put guys in the friend zone, but they do it all the time. So the most common thing that a woman will say to a guy that she doesn't like is, uh, you know, I'm not really interested in you like that right now, or I'm not really interested in you like that, or you're not exactly my type, but uh, let's just be friends. Or maybe the friend zone protects you from being murdered. I think a guy, if he's pissed enough, he'll still murder you if he's in the friend zone. But if you put him in the friend zone, right, you've pacified him. Because if he agrees to be friends, and you're still going to talk to him, then he's still holding on that there's hope. Now again, I agree that there's still danger later down the road, but there's not immediate danger because if you flat out reject a guy and like, I don't like you, I'm not interested, he might get pissed off. But if he's in the friend zone, the friend zone is safe. You're friends.

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, it's safe, like you said, but I think that it could still result in murder. It could still result in true crimes, look.

Diego: But it's less likely. I mean, it's a way of rejecting a guy without rejecting him because it's like, oh, you're still a great person, you're wonderful. What do women say all the...

John: Oh, you're such a nice guy. I'm sure some woman is going to just love you so much, or you're going to make such a great boyfriend for just... it's just not me. But we could be friends, right? Because women say it like that in order to tamp down the aggression. It's not a rejection where you know it's hard to react negatively to that, right? Because if you say, "Let's just be friends," it's hard to say "fuck you" to that. But if she says, "Oh yeah, I'm not interested," that's still not even bad, but you're right, you still get the reaction.

Nicole: What would you say about this topic? Like, is there a way... I guess you just said that women can friend zone guys, and they'll be more safe. But how can we, as women, date without being so afraid of these things, and even the people we're actively dating, like having to be afraid of something happening? How do women navigate this?

John: They navigate it by going after bad boys. I'll tell you why. Because they're honest with who they are and what they're like. If you can handle him, he's not going to be any different than what he is. But a nice guy is dangerous, right? That's why women are more attracted to bad guys as well, because even guys that are actually abusive, it's a known quantity, not an unknown quantity. Now again, I'm not saying that that's a healthy thing or a good thing, but I'm just saying that guys that have a tendency to be selfish, to say what they want, to not be filtered, those are safer guys because you know exactly what you're getting.

Nicole: Well, I might be wrong, but I think the guy here in San Diego, the TikToker guy, was abusing her before, right?

John: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like, that indicates that he has a propensity to violence, right? So that's not good. But I don't want women to also hear this and be like, "Oh, I can avoid murderers by dating assholes." That's not the idea. You want an honest person and someone who has boundaries, who can have hard conversations. Because like you said, they're not going to hold things in; they're not going to harbor resentment because they're able to have uncomfortable conversations with you. That's what nice guys should be learning how to do: have boundaries and be honest, so they get out of being a nice guy and they become a kind guy. And women do need to stop dating assholes because, yes, they're honest, but they do tend to be more abusive.

Nicole: Yeah, and so, you know, maybe he won't murder you, or, you know, as often as the nice guy will, just one time, you know. The asshole guy is still not the person to be going after as a woman either. And that's what women are really looking for in nice guys. They're like, "You women don't want me." It's like, if you just have boundaries and you're kind, but you have boundaries, now she feels like you're definitely not going to murder her because you can have tough conversations, you can confront those sorts of things with honesty. But you're also kind; you care about people. People who care about people don't murder people, typically.

John: Yeah, so you have to look for men that have boundaries, that have healthy boundaries. It's a good indicator. And, uh, yeah, I mean, and look for the red flags, which is anger management.

Nicole: But what about if they act not angry, but that is not healthy boundaries, right?

John: Right, because if they don't have boundaries, it's fine to not be angry. It's like we talk about all the time about being insecure or being secure, being controlling or dominant. It's like an insecure controlling man; that's the dangerous one because he's like, "You can't go out to the club." Whereas the secure dominant man is like, "Look, you can do what you want. However, I'm not going to be in a relationship with a woman that goes out to clubs." But you have to mean that, too. To the boundaries, exactly. Otherwise, it's not a boundary. But you know that he's going to carry through on that, that he's going to follow through. That's how you know that he has actual boundaries, whereas the other guy is making threats.

Nicole: So, I think that's, you know, how you can tell, to a degree. Because, well, it's still hard to tell, but like you said, I think it is better if you're with somebody that's honest and isn't already abusive, like is a kind person but has boundaries and is honest.

John: Well, I mean, why do you think men are willing to, like, basically ruin their lives to do something like that?

Nicole: Because they have made their entire life this one... Again, a lot of it too comes down to when I used to teach dating, pick up, whatever you call pick up, let's be honest.

John: Right, yeah.

Nicole: When I used to teach guys how to pick up girls, okay, I used to always defend it because people like, "That's so sleazy. Why would you teach guys that?" I'm like, "Look, these guys are not going to kill anybody." I literally used to say that because the guy that goes and kills some girl or his ex, he's the guy that is frustrated, or like, shoots up a place. He's the guy that cannot get laid. He's the guy that's put everything, he has oneitis. He's picked out this one girl, started stalking her, whatever it was. And then if she made the mistake of actually dating him, she's the one, the only one for me, and I have to have this girl. He puts his whole life into that. Hell, guys do this before they have even talked to the girl, online, like girls that they just see pictures of. They become dedicated to. So they're just...

John: Delusional.

Nicole: Yeah, well, it's because there is some kind of instinct in the man that has not become a man, which means that he hasn't learned his way around women, hasn't gained his own confidence. He attaches so strongly because it is a built-in, it's like a good thing. You know, we're married. I'm fiercely loyal to you.

John: Yeah, I'm fiercely loyal to you, right. Like, I will kill anybody. Like, I'll do whatever I need to do to protect you, right? Because, like, I... you know, that is that instinct. But it's tempered by my experience and confidence because I know that, uh, even if you didn't like...

Nicole: Just don't kill me, okay?

John: But see, that's the thing. It's tempered by my experience and confidence.

John: If you decided to divorce me or whatever, I'm not destroyed as a human being. I still have value because I know my value as a man. I have proved my value as a man. Men who haven't gone through those stages are still in a very emotionally immature stage, and they attach that same instinct to whatever their target is. It's like the obsession they have, similar to what is depicted in the series "You" on Netflix.

Nicole: But what about the TikTok guy? He was popular on TikTok and surely got attention.

John: Yes, but if you saw his comments, assuming it was him, you'd see how he responded to people. He was still trying to get attention, still insecure. No amount of attention someone gives you can make you secure.

Nicole: Then how does sleeping with a woman give him the confidence?

John: It's not about sleeping with the women. It's about what he learns about himself in the process, facing his fears, and realizing he's okay. It's about the actual approach. Going on a dating app and matching with girls wouldn't have the same effect. It has the effect because he faced his fear and overcame it, knowing he can do that any time.

Nicole: What about the men who get stuck in that cycle, though, and they're still insecure?

John: That's the problem. You have to shift the validation from external to internal. External validation will never give you internal validation. At some point, you have to say, "I've done it. I've proved myself. I'm good." A man could have external validation, but if he doesn't have internal, he might murder you.

Nicole: I guess so, because if he's still seeking validation, nothing is enough. You're constantly needing that validation to feel like it.

John: Yes, and if you're still stuck there, then you're going to feel like you're trapped. But if he learns the skills in the right way, he's going to become more confident. There are some guys that could still have extremely fragile egos and not feel like it's all luck.

Nicole: I wasn't trying to trap you. I'm just trying to explain how women have to be. You don't ever feel 100% sure unless you're in a very intimate and deeply connected relationship. Women vet men very carefully. Confidence is attractive because someone who's confident is not psycho. If someone breaks up with them, they're not like, "I need to kill them."

John: Another part of this topic that gets me thinking is that men are so afraid to date American women because they'll lose all their stuff or they'll get a divorce, and women literally have to worry about getting murdered and they still go on dates.

Nicole: As a woman, we genuinely have to be afraid. Am I going to get murdered?

John: The actual chance of getting murdered by a man is extremely low. It's definitely higher than getting murdered by a woman, but being assaulted, raped, or attacked is for sure higher, and women still date.

Nicole: If you get divorced, yeah, you lose half your stuff, but you're still alive. If we pay the ultimate price, which is getting murdered, we're no longer alive.

John: It's much more likely that you're going to get a divorce than you're going to get murdered by your spouse. Most people can fix their relationship, and it doesn't go straight to divorce, but it involves the man just as much as it involves the woman.

Nicole: More than half of marriages end in divorce.

John: I agree that's easily fixable. You're not easily able to fix somebody from murdering you. But I see what you're saying. The percentage chance of being killed by a...

John: The risk of danger increases with the relationship status. You're going to be closer to him. But a guy you just randomly date is not going to... It could happen, but he's just a killer. It's not a scorned lover situation. Men don't think about being murdered by other men, but there are plenty of men who shoot up places. It depends on your situation and where you live. There are definitely places where... But in general, I'm talking about the kids that shoot up schools, which are typically white males, churches, typically white males, right? Like, and or a movie theater. Those people are also just killing. They're men that are killing not just women at this point too, but anyone that's near there.

Nicole: What are men doing to help other men not be murderers? It's like they're rushing you out of the Chase building before someone comes and kills everyone. But what are men doing to stop other men? How can we help these men?

John: We teach them to man up, to stop being boys and to be men. Every one of those cases, those mass shootings, it's been an incel guy, a guy that can't get laid, a guy that's been bullied and picked on, a guy that has a victim mindset and has not stepped up and learned how to be a man. He has not faced his fears, has not developed himself. Those guys actually need tough love, not bullying, but like a guy being like, "You shut the [__] up and get...". That sounds a little bully, not bullying. That's encouragement for a man.

Nicole: It's like, "Shut the [__] up and do what you need to do. Stop being a [__]." As a woman, I would think that he's going to come murder me because I said that. But it's how you're saying it. It's like saying you're tough enough to handle this, and I know it because I see you. There's a way to do that where it's not just abusive and just picking on someone. You could say those same words, but it's like, "Come on, you can do this. Don't be a [__]."

John: Every call when I have new people coming into the coaching, I'm like, "There are three reasons, three states you're in: either you don't know what to do, you don't know how to do it, or you can't get yourself to do it." If you don't know what to do, I'll tell you what to do. If you don't know how to do it, I'll help you figure out how to do it. And if you can't get yourself to do it, I will [__] kick your ass and make you do it. They like that part because that's what they want. They want someone to kick their ass and make them do it. I was telling you about Rob that I was on the phone with, and he's like, "I'll pay $10,000 to call me a [__] and to make me [__] work." He's reading a lot of David Goggin books right now. But it's true. Men need guidance by other men to become men so that they don't do these things. A man that has confidence, that knows who he is, has success with women, he doesn't go and do this stupid [__] because he has more. He doesn't want to throw his life away.

Nicole: The scary thing is, though, that you can't force a man to do the things. You can't force a man to better himself. You can't force a man to become a man. So, we just have to hope and pray that they take the initiative. It's really sad that anybody would feel like they could take someone else's life just because they don't want to be with them. And that man not only took her life but the person that she was with. As a man, too, does that not also make you feel... Now, men get a little taste of it. Women have to constantly be afraid that they're going to get murdered, even at the phone number part. But men only get the part where, "Am I with a woman where her ex would murder me?" That's the only time they can experience what women experience all the time with men.

John: That's why it's like a crazy ex is a red flag for men dating a woman. Like, a crazy ex-guy is definitely a red flag. One of my coaching clients was just talking about this woman from Mexico, and her ex-boyfriend was a drug dealer or something, and he went to jail. I was like, "Yeah, stay away from that [__]. No, sir. I don't care how good she looks. She's off the table. Nope, not goodbye." That is definitely rolling the dice. "Call me when you're in the witness protection program." But see, men, they wouldn't deal with a woman like that. Women, if they had that mindset, though, they wouldn't go on dates. Like, any guy could be... I mean, like I said, realistically, even talking to guys, you're not going to get murdered, right? Like, realistically, you just told that guy not to even mess with this woman because her ex was a drug dealer and went to jail. Nothing has even happened.

John: I mean, that's different. That's like a but what I'm trying to say is women could easily be like no, we don't date men because they could all murder us, but we don't. And that's why when I see the divorce thing, like you even said, yeah, that's if you get married. That's if you get to the point where you got married is the only way you're going to get a divorce, the only way you're gonna lose half your stuff. A woman could be dating a guy for six months, and he could murder her. Like again, it's not high probability, yeah, but...

Nicole: But she could. I see what you're saying. She could get into, she doesn't even have to be married to him. He could be emotionally unstable, and then like he can't handle the breakup and whatever, yeah.

John: Right. So yeah, and then be like, if I can't be with you, then no one can, right. Yeah. But I mean, you should see the red flags before you get that like the longer you go into the relationship with someone like that, the higher the probability becomes. Then it actually becomes a real, you see the red flags, and then you leave, and then he murders you in your sleep with your boyfriend, your new boyfriend. No, if you see the red flags, you should see them before you've gotten into that deep.

Nicole: What are the red flags?

John: The red flags, like I like the, ins, lay them out again. So, women, insecurity is the biggest red flag.

Nicole: A guy is insecure, right.

John: And then if he's a nice guy, yeah, which is insecure, right. Like, yeah. So insecure. So, look for confidence, true confidence because sometimes people fake confidence.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. Fake confidence is the most insecure, the most scary, the most murderous, the most like pretending to be, you know.

John: But that but it's also easily detectable. The one thing you can't fake is confidence, true confidence.

Nicole: Yeah. But yeah, insecurity is the biggest red flag. Yeah. I just wanted to talk about it because, I mean, it is crazy to even know somebody that has a story like that. It's still like, he knows a person, and you know the person, like you know him. But almost every woman has a sexual assault story. So true, things like that still happen. And the whole reason I brought this up, like I said, is because men like shit on dating so hard because they're afraid of divorce, but they don't really realize the risk that women are taking dating men. Like maybe them themselves aren't murderers, obviously are going to do something horrible like rape somebody or whatever, but can we even say that? Are we going to have to...

John: It's fine. We're not getting views anyway.

Nicole: So, oh my God. I thought about the same thing. I was like, I don't care really, but um, like they, I don't think they understand that until, like I said, they see a story and they're like, oh, he got murdered because he was with that girl. Yeah, you know, if I think everybody, I'm back, like are there any open cases of like, are there some threat, get the threat, be like, oh okay, you think I'm going to murder you?

John: No, not you, someone that you dated. I got to do a background check now and be like, all right, what's the, you know, got to run some background checks on guys that you've dated, see if they got a criminal record.

Nicole: Or I'm not worried about any of them. That's also why I kept a box cutter in my purse every date I went on because I'm like, you trying to murder me, I'm going to go down trying to murder you at the same time. Like, I'm not going down without a fight, but you know, I'm still outside. So we got here, but yeah, I mean, it just, men talk a lot about their struggles, and I understand it, but and they'll still probably be like, like you said, it doesn't happen that often, but it does happen.

John: Well, yeah, a scary amount. The threat of real violence or an aggressive response from a man is high, especially when you're in an isolated situation with him.

Nicole: Right, right. That is true. That is true. Right. Like, that's, and it could even be a random man going down the street. Like, women can't go out and walk around at night like men can. Like, they have to be so much more aware of things. Like, we can't even sit in our car without making sure that it's locked in a parking lot or seeing if there's a car next to us that has some random person sitting in next to it because they might try to take you. Granted, these things don't happen often, but there's a scare. But they don't happen to men either. Men are never sitting in their car like, I, some girl might jump in and carjack me right now, or hey, I was getting into my car, and there was a creepy guy in the car next to me. I think he's going to kidnap me. Like, they never think about those things. They don't even realize the freedom that they have in this way that like women don't. They don't. We don't have that. I mean, there are a lot of psycho women though. Every guy dated a psycho has had a psycho ex that has like done some stuff or showed up at his, getting kidnapped. They're not getting, uh, yeah, she's probably not going to kill you. I'll say graped. They're not getting, uh, you know, murdered as often. And so yeah, we, and we're still going on dates with men. So men need to man up and get over their fear of divorce when women are out here potentially risking being murdered.

John: That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. I don't know if I can equate the two of them, but I get what you're saying. I get it. It is a real, you know, I don't think the risk of divorce and murder are not the same, but I get what you're saying.

Nicole: But there, but a woman is facing, is way more preventable ahead of time. Murder is also preventable.

John: Not really. If someone has a gun, you don't, you don't get into a relationship with that person. Why do you let it get that far?

Nicole: Some people don't like, they're hiding it.

John: I know, but like if you are properly dating, vetting a person, you know, there's like, you know, someone who is, no, they broke up, this woman broke up with the guy because he's bad news, and then so what are you supposed to do? You're like, if you, if you're in a relationship and you know a person, break up with them because he might murder you. He murders you before you get into the committed relation, before you move in, be obsessed with you.

Nicole: That's fine, even from the beginning, and murder you.

John: No, that's unlikely.

Nicole: I don't think so. That's really unlikely that you just go on a date with a guy and he murders you because he's obsessed with you.

John: I'm sure I'mma find an article.

Nicole: Sure.

John: I'm put it in the caption on the percentage of women that are murdered by a romantic interest is, ex is, I'm sure I can find one for all these things. Look, just met a guy, murdered. I'm sure I can find one.

Nicole: Sure.

John: In a relationship, murdered. Broke up with him, murdered. But if you combine all those together, right, you got three murders, and you take the risk, right, it's, it's, I'm sure it's far less. I'm sure you're far more likely to die on

John: A flight on an airplane, but you get on airplanes every day. I understand, but here's also the thing that I'm trying to say. I'd rather have $1 left to my name, one right, and not be murdered.

Nicole: I'd rather have one freaking dollar, and these men are leaving with more than a dollar, and they're still crying. But I'm telling you, if I had one dollar and I was still alive, I would kiss the ground. But see, there's a lot of guys that are the opposite thinking. They'd rather die. That's why they kill because they'd rather die than not be with their true love. Your true love would want to be with you if that was your true love, right? But rejection... someone needs to help these people. Like, they need help. You can't just be murdering people. There's something going on. There's a lot of crazy. I mean, there's, I think there's more crazy ex-women stories than crazy ex-men stories, but women don't...

John: Yeah, but women don't take it as far. They just like slash your tires and like show up. I'd rather have a flat tire than no more life. That's all I'm saying. But if women were as big as men, they would kill men.

Nicole: I don't think so. If women had the testosterone of men, I don't think women would give up their lives like for some man to reject you. Never had a psycho ex-girlfriend, you know?

John: Uh, I dated someone that had a psycho ex-girlfriend. I called the police in front of her. Yeah, or like she was on the phone, and me and my friend went to the police station because she was harassing me, right? And he put her on speakerphone, and she was like, "How long would I have to go to jail if I kept harassing her?" She stopped because she actually saw me out in person, and she was like, "Hi," and I was like, "Hey." And then she was all, she was like a chihuahua. They bark a lot like Toto, but they don't do anything.

Nicole: But that's the thing, is like a woman might say stuff, or she might like show up somewhere, or she might try to act tough, but she ain't murdering you most of the time.

John: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a, if she could, she would, but not... I don't know, women think about differently. They don't... Also, I'm thinking about it. If I was on a phone call with a man, and he said that to a police officer, I'd change my name because I would think he was going to murder me. Like, if a man told me what she said, "How long would I have to go to jail if I kept harassing her?" I'd be like, "I'm moving states, and I'm getting a new ID, and I'm never... I'm throwing my phone away." Like that. Like, I would be afraid that that person's actually going to do something.

John: Yeah, that makes sense.

Nicole: Yeah, so men are scary. The end. I just want men to realize they're still going to probably be in the comments being like, "Like, this doesn't happen." But it happens. I mean, it does.

John: No, I know. That's true. I didn't know that what exactly would happen, but 'cause it's cliche at this point, and it happens. It doesn't matter if it's cliche. It's murder.

Nicole: Yeah, and I think that woman had a kid, didn't you say? She had a kid. Like, even the man who left his own kid to now have no parents. The one who lived here, the TikTok guy.

John: Yeah, that kid has no parents because you killed the kid's mom, and then now you're going to jail. Like, you're not going to have that kid.

Nicole: No, and then that guy who killed the lady while she was sleeping, and the guy, she had a kid.

John: Yeah, what men fiercely protect what is theirs, but not children, obviously.

Nicole: Well, part of it is like, they'll kill their children too, like a lot of times.

John: Yeah, that also is like terrifying. Here's another scenario where it happens pretty commonly. Man loses his job, he goes home, kills his wife and kids.

Nicole: That happens. I mean, obviously not super frequently, but that's a common... Right, because if he's miserable, he has to kill everybody.

John: No, if he can't support them, if he can't take care of them, then they're better off dead.

Nicole: Yeah, that's what... Or ask her to get a job, and you guys can both have a job. I think a woman would prefer that than getting murdered and killing your kids.

John: Yeah, because he feels like a failure, so he feels like it's like, you know, that's what goes on there.

Nicole: That happens. That's even more scary, that if a man feels like he fails, right, he's going to kill everybody.

John: Yeah, 'cause he feels like his entire family...

Nicole: You just ended this by making women more afraid. Jesus Christ.

John: I'm just saying, it happens.

Nicole: Right, I'm like, women put the... We are... might get murdered, and we still go out there, and then you're like, "Well, even if you have a family, he might kill you all if he gets fired."

John: But doesn't it... doesn't happen to people who listen to this podcast. And subscribe, especially people who put iTunes reviews, you know.

Nicole: Look, this is serious business. I'm serious. Like, and I feel so bad for the families who have dealt with this because it's really not fair. Right, but I am serious because if you learn relationship skills, then, and you understand how to interact, then... I get it, but I think it does need to be acknowledged that even as a woman, you can stand and still come across the wrong guy and be in a scary situation.

John: Yeah, even if you're not murdered, there's still, like you said, plenty of women who have stories of men doing things to them that are very traumatizing and very bad.

Nicole: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you have to be and careful. It's a fear that men don't have to have.

John: Right, at all. They don't. They're not worried about that.

Nicole: Just... I mean, there's psycho women, but again, it's not as, you know, not as on the same level.

John: Yeah, but don't worry, not every man will murder you or do bad things. And if you see one, just stare at them and eat a napkin.

Nicole: Or poop your pants. Just poop your pants. That would get rid of... Just look crazier than he is.

John: Yeah, and carry a box cutter in your purse when you go on dates. But you know, just to be safe. Don't like break it out for no reason.

Nicole: Don't... Yeah, if you use a box cutter, you better use it for a lethal purpose 'cause you don't want to stick someone with a box cutter and piss them off.

John: So that's the thing. Stick... Yeah, you want to make sure you finish. If you start the job, you...

Nicole: Yeah, then you got to finish the job. You can't just piss them off more. You got to make sure you're ready to finish the job.

John: You know what? Say, just get a taser or mace. That's a little bit more acceptable.

Nicole: Yeah, but yeah, not... the protect yourself. Like, I'm not going to tell women not to protect themselves because...

John: Yeah, it's not always... You saw like signs to see, like you're right. The first and most important step is to have good relationship skills and notice red flags and notice concerning behavior, but crazy stuff still happens, so protect yourself, guys.

John: Chameleons, and they like you won't find out right away. That's another scary part too. You have some friends, and then there's this one guy who literally, I would be afraid that, yeah, he could be a killer for sure.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. So, protect yourself. That's all I got to say. Protect yourself. Women, do what you need to do, but men should empathize with women that this is something they don't have to deal with thinking about as often as women do.

John: I agree. And they're still trying to go on a date with you, so they must like you enough to risk being murdered.

Nicole: Well, they go on dates with murderers too. Are they trying? No, they don't. That's a whole other thing. Like, that's for attention.

John: That's for attention. Alright, I guess we should wrap it up here. We don't have an end of the thing.

Nicole: Yeah, we don't really. We already talked about it, but yeah, we'll have to hash out our thing more. I think we got a better... It feels like it's more baked now, so it makes more sense. So, moral of the story though, for today, is don't murder people.

John: Yeah, don't murder people. Get help if you need help. If you're feeling big emotions, get help. But murder that like button on this podcast and go to iTunes and leave us your review.

Nicole: I was going to say death threat, but leave us your review. Don't say we're going to have to edit so much stuff out of this.

John: It's fine. It's fine. But yeah, we'll read it on, no matter what it says.

Nicole: What are you trying to say? Don't. You're like calling the murderers to come comment. You're like, no matter what it says. You can tell us. This is not supposed to be a call to get the murderers watching, John.

John: It's supposed to be for... Forget everything I said.